Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 3.158 December 9, 1993 1) Language or dialect? (David Sherman) 2) Yiddish word for verse? (David Sherman) 3) Daytchmerish (Reyzl Kalifowicz-Waletzky) 4) Leyenen/lezn (Reyzl Kalifowicz-Waletzky) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue Dec 7 23:40:14 1993 From: dave@cai.lsuc.on.ca (David Sherman) Subject: language or dialect? [Arre Komar writes:] > The running dispute concerning proper Yiddish grammar, vocabulary, > etc. seems to me quite beside the point since the issue as to what > constitutes a language as opposed to a dialect or argot is really a > political issue. For example Dutch is regarded as a langauge while > directly accross the boarder in Friesland virtually the same > language is regarded as a platt, or dialect. Was it Mikhl Herzog who coined the expression?: "A language is a dialect with an army." David Sherman 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue Dec 7 23:40:19 1993 From: dave@cai.lsuc.on.ca (David Sherman) Subject: Yiddish word for verse? [Robert Rachlin writes:] > "Posuk" seems to me appropriate only in reference to scriptural > verses. I can't imagine using "posuk" for, say, a verse of > Shakespeare ... Doesn't one use "shures" for lines in a play or poem? Would "shure" be acceptable for a verse in a play? David Sherman 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed Dec 8 12:09:55 1993 From: Roslyn Kalifowicz-Waletzky <0005943838@mcimail.com> Subject: Daytchmerish [Dorothy Bilik writes:] >Dear Mendlnikes, I will abstain from begging my beloved colleagues >to please use YIVO transcriptions tsum veynikstn ven me shraybt in >Mendele vayl di daytshmerizms zaynen a bisl a baleydikung un take >pasn nit in azan ort. Oyb me vil nisht zol men shraybn oyf english. Ikh bin in gantsn maskem. By the way, I didn't get a chance to tell you. You looked wonderful when I saw you at the Professors of Yiddish Association dinner last Dec. Reyzl Kalifowicz-Waletzky 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed Dec 8 12:09:55 1993 From: Roslyn Kalifowicz-Waletzky <0005943838@mcimail.com> Subject: Leyenen/lezn [Marion Aptroot writes:] >_leyenen_ (or rather: _layen_) and _lezn_ can also be found in >Western Yiddish in the 16th and 17th century and beyond (and >probably earlier). The usage is very much the same as in modern >Eastern Yiddish: _lezn_ for books and _leyenen_ either exclusively >for the reading of the law in shul or that and the reading of >religious texts. I think that _leyenen_ was most often reserved for >the balkoyre, but in future I will pay more attention to its use. >Nowadays, Dutch Jews use _layenen_ exclusively for the reading aloud >of Torah in synagogue. [Pe'rets Mett writes:] >I am a bit puzzled about this. In fact I have always assumed lezn to >be a germanism. We certainly use leynen (not *leyenen* !) for "read" >whether it be koydesh or khol. When I started to hear people use >Leyenen for "reading the toyre" as an =English= expression it took >me a long time to get used to it. Maybe the distinction is a purely >litvishe one... Leynen is a Yiddish word that is used in any context, namely koydesh and khol, among all dialects. Lezn is restricted to non-religious contexts. But what has not been clear in the recent leynen/lezn discussion is that lezn is a daythmerish word. Despite the fact that lezn is an old term in Western Yiddish and one that reached a wide distribution in Eastern Yiddish since the late 19th century (but never in my immediate family), it's still daythmerish in Eastern Yiddish. It is therefore not recommended in Standard Yiddish. There goes another YIVOnitse. [Michael Shimshoni writes:] >There was also an unusual use of the word lernen (learn). If >applied to an ordinary subject, it was like the English to learn or >learning. When on the other hand one said about someone that "er >kann lernen" (he can learn) it did not mean that he was no imbecile, >and could be taught, but that he was *knowledgeable* in the Talmud >etc. Is that the same also in Yiddish? Yes, it is. And seyfer (=book) is restricted to Jewish religious books. But no Jew would use it to refer to a Yiddish translation of the New Testament no matter how folksish or ekht those translations claim it to be. The same restrictions apply to the term posek. Reyzl Kalifowicz-Waletzky ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 3.158 Mendele has 2 rules: 1. Provide a Subject: line. 2. Sign your article. Send submissions/responses to: mendele@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu Other business: nmiller@starbase.trincoll.edu Anonymous ftp archives available on: ftp.mendele.trincoll.edu in the directory pub/mendele/files