Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 4.046 July 3, 1994 1) Sholem Aleichem's Marienbad (Ted Steinberg) 2) Sholem Aleichem's Marienbad (Dvosye Bilik) 3) Orthographic conventions (Ellen Prince) 4) Jewess (Ellen Prince) 5) Jewess (Michael Shimshoni) 6) Kurve; Jewess (Philologus) 7) Lamed-fe-kuf (Ellen Prince) 8) The dual form (Arre Komar) 9) Translation (Neyekh Zide) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 1 Jul 1994 7:53 pm EDT (23:53:45 UT) From: STEINBER%FREDONIA.bitnet@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu Subject: Jews of Marienbad Sholem Aleichem did indeed write a novel, an epistolary novel, about Marienbad. It is a fascinating work. Strangely enough, I find some interesting parallels between it and the eighteenth-century novel Humphrey Clinker by Tobias Smollett, which has a great deal to do with goings on at the Marienbad-like resort of Bath. Ted Steinberg 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 02 Jul 94 10:55 EDT From: Dorothy_BILIK@umail.umd.edu Subject: SA's Marienbad To Pavel M-C: Marienbad was one of the spas frequented by wealthy Jews and endowed Hassidic`tsadikim. SA's novel "Marienbad" was translated by Aliza Shevrin into English a few years ago. It depictswith customary irony the foibles and "romantic" complications of bourgeoise provincial Jews in a classy resort. Jane Austen and Bath is not so far-fetched an analogy. Dvosye Bilik 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 01 Jul 1994 21:12:06 EDT From: ellen@central.cis.upenn.edu Subject: orthographic conventions To: Peter Kluehs >Derf ich aich onmutn asa ortografie oder hobt ir liber as ich lern >schrajbn as ir schrajbt in der YIVO ortografie? i vote for you continuing to write the way you have been taught. ellen prince 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 01 Jul 1994 21:12:06 EDT From: ellen@central.cis.upenn.edu Subject: 'jewess' To: Dan Leeson i am certainly not defending philologus, but i do think one might react differently from the way you did to the forward's use of 'jewess'. i personally am quite confident that there was no anti-semitic intent on the part of the newspaper! and there is nothing INHERENTLY anti-semitic in the term, or even anything intentionally or inherently anti-female. as i see it, the term is simply out of style (not p.c., as it's called by some), along with a host of other female-suffix terms, and to know that and still use it conveys that one doesn't give a hoot and therefore that one is quite happy to be thought of as a sexist. i suspect strongly that this was not the intention of the newspaper and that they simply did not know. (the english, especially in headlines, is often distinctly non-native, if not to say ill-formed.) perhaps it would have been more effective to simply write to the editor and tell him how this term is received by many people today. a similar case, to my mind, that crops up in other english-language newspapers is 'wailing wall'--if i think the writer (christian or jew) doesn't know that this is a christian point of view of what jews look like when they're praying, i try to point it out to them and suggest they adopt 'western wall'; if i think they DO know but still use it, i scream and/or stop reading their stuff. ellen prince 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 03 Jul 94 09:44:07 +0300 From: MASH@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL Subject: Jewess Both my knowledge of English and alas also of Yiddish was not acquired as a first language. I am thus at complete loss to understand the terrible crime of the Forward for using the word Jewess as complained about so bitterly by Dan Leeson. For me, in spite of Sir Walter Scott, I see nothing so terrible in that word, nor am I offended by the use of Jew and this in spite of Shakespeare. In German Jude and Juedin are normally used, and using "Germans of Mosaic religion" is something much more offensive to my ears. Also in Hebrew both Yehudi and Yehudiya are quite respectable. I am well aware that the term Jew in either gender was and is used by antisemites in a derogatory way, but we can not live by their vicious criteria. I have intention in the above to express an opinion about Philologos, as I know nothing about him but what I read in Mendele. Michael Shimshoni 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 3 Jul 1994 13:08:26 +0300 (EET-DST) From: nmiller@starbase.trincoll.edu Subject: Kurve; Jewess [Ongekomen an ander briv fun philologn. nm] Before Edward Stankiewicz criticizes any more columns of mine in the Forward for journalistic irresponsibility, he might take a course in reading comprehension. He writes to complain that in my June 24th column on the word *kurve*, I (1) give a fanciful Yiddish/Hebrew etymology for it; (2) ignore the fact that the the word is widespread in Slavic lang- uages. In fact, I explicity pointed out in the column that the suggested derivation of *kurve* from Hebrew *kurvah* is highly doubtful, and that the word is found not only in Yiddish, but in Polish, Ukrainian, and Rus- sian. As for my statement in the column that *kurve* has no clear Slavic etymology - since Prof. Stankiewicz makes do with telling us that the Slavic etymon is a word denoting the sexual prowess of birds without in- forming us what this word is or how and when it came to mean a prostitute, I will for the time being have to stand by what I said. I leave it to the readers of Mendele to judge which of us has been irresponsible. Concerning Dan Leeson's posting about "Jewess" I'd like to point out to him that I wrote an entire column on the subject, occasioned by an earlier use of the word in the Forward, which appeared several months before I received his letter. And it might please him to know that, although I am generally very politically incorrect in my opinions, in this particular case I explained why I thought "Jewess" was an unfortunate word and one to avoid in contemporary usage. I am sorry for my negligence in not answering Mr. Leeson's letters. Philologus 7)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 01 Jul 1994 21:12:06 EDT From: ellen@central.cis.upenn.edu Subject: lamed-fe-kuf the tayerer shames must be having conniptions because this ain't about yiddish either, but...can someone tell me what lamed-fe-kuf means/stands for? someone told me it was an abbreviation for l'kudat 'by the command of', but couldn't explain the fe. can anybody help? a dank aykh. ellen prince 8)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 2 Jul 1994 22:11:27 -0400 (EDT) From: komar@yu1.yu.edu Subject: the dual form I was surprised to learn here in Mendele that in some Yiddish dialects a dual form continues to exist. I therefore made inquiries among the older Yiddish speaking congregants in Shul this morning. An elderly scholarly lady formerly from Lodz, a graduate from a prominant Lodzer Yiddish gymnazium, who survived the holocaust with a partisan unit in the forests surrounding the city, informed me that she knew the dual form "enk" but that in her local dialect they used a variant dual form "oon" which she spelled for me: aleph vov lange nun. She thought that this usage was rather widespread in an area extending over to neighboring regions of Russia and Lithuania. She was quite explicit in distinguishing the subjective dual "oon" from the objective plural "unz". As this is all very new to me I would be most interested if others are familiar with this word and the extent of its usuage. Also how would verbs conjugate with the dual form? (I neglected to pursue this point with my informant.) Arre Komar 9)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 2 Jul 94 23:07:01 CDT From: n-zide@uchicago.edu Subject: translation I agree with Wolitz, Zazulyer, and Rosenwald that the going translations from Yiddish need to be looked at more closely. With regard to the Penguin anthology, it seems odd that the standard format of the Penguin anthologies (of French, Spanish, Russian, Hebrew, Latin, etc) give the original with (at the bottom of the page) 'literal prose translations', whereas the Yiddish anthology ('of modern Yiddish verse') has featured on facing pages (what they call in India) 'transcreations' - I am not using the term as a compliment - in large part. Neyekh / Norman Zide ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 4.046 A Table of Contents is now available via anonymous ftp, along with weekly updates. Anonymous ftp archives available on: ftp.mendele.trincoll.edu in the directory pub/mendele/files Archives available via gopher on: gopher.cic.net Mendele has 2 rules: 1. Provide a meaningful Subject: line. 2. Sign your article. Send articles to: mendele@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu Other business: nmiller@mail.trincoll.edu