Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 4.110 September 22, 1994 1) Romanization (Bob Poe) 2) Transcription of Yiddish (Arn Abramson) 3) Motl and other songs (Bill Parker) 4) Yiddish and the Census Bureau (Zellig Bach) 5) Address change (Evelyn Quartin Feins) 6) What to do if/when Mendele stops (Noyekh Miller) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Sep 94 17:59:37 EDT From: poe@keps.com Subject: Romanization It seems very appropriate to me that the YIVO romanization of Yiddish words of Hebrew origin should be based on their pronun- ciation in Yiddish and should be represented according to the same phonetic system used for words of (say) Germanic or Slavic origin. There is still some question, as Yude Rozof has pointed out, concerning Hebrew words in a Yiddish context that have never been adopted into Yiddish proper. Here, I think one would like to treat them as foreign words and spell them "the foreign way"; but, if this procedure requires extra diacritical marks or symbols not commonly used in the romani- zation of Yiddish, then it may be burdensome. By analogy, Polish words in the middle of a Yiddish context are respelled "the Yiddish way", are they not? But that's because they have been converted from Roman letters to Hebrew letters and then back to Roman again. (Is this convention really necessary?) The real anomaly, from my point of view, is that words of Hebrew origin are spelled the same way in Yiddish as they are in Hebrew *in the Hebrew alphabet*. It seems to me that, if a Hebrew word has been fully adopted into Yiddish and has acquired a definite Yiddish pronunciation, then it should be spelled phonetically according to the YIVO system, even when using Hebrew letters. These words should be regarded as being fully naturalized into Yiddish. Instead, Yiddish words of Hebrew origin have always been awarded a special status, an exemption from the phonetic orthography prevailing over words derived from other languages. >From a practical point of view, it means that someone (like myself) who wants to learn how to read Yiddish cannot even pronounce these words, without studying Hebrew also! (The vowels are almost never indicated, anyway, in these words.) So my proposal is that the YIVO romanization be retained and that the Hebraic spelling be regularized by analogy with it. Of course, this will horrify many people: the idea of using the Hebrew alphabet to spell Hebrew words in a radical new and untraditional way is outlandish. But my point is that they are *not* Hebrew words anymore; they are Yiddish. Bob Poe 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 22 Sep 94 00:02:29 EDT From: abramson@uconnvm.uconn.edu Subject: Transcription of Yiddish Dismayed as I was by Aharon Meytahl's scheme for writing Yiddish in roman script, I have been much too busy inefficiently trying to meet a number of deadlines to compose a reasonably good response. I am, therefore, grateful to Yude Rozof for his carefully written discussion, with good examples, of the topic. (I myself, perhaps a year ago, wrote a fairly long comment on something like "Transcription vs. Transliteration.") I hasten to add that I heartily agree with Shleyme Axelrod that no rule should be imposed in Mendele that would drive away the many members who do not care to make the effort to learn a conventional transcription system, such as the widely used Yivo system. Arn (aka Arthur, NOT Aharon) Abramson 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 13:25:51 +0800 From: bill@brenta.EEPO.DIALix.oz.au Subject: Motl and other songs I asked recently for the Yiddish words of "Bay Mir Bistu Shayn", and I now have those words, thanks to Mendele. The singer in our Klezmer Band also wants to sing "Motl" and "Ikh hob dich tsufil lieb". Can anyone help with 1) the Yiddish words, 2) English words if they exist? Bill Parker 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Sep 94 18:33:33 EDT From: Zellig@aol.com Subject: Letter to Congressman about Yiddish and the Census Bureau This is a copy of my letter to Thomas C. Sawyer, Ohio Democrat, Chairman of the House Subcommittee that oversees the Census Bureau. To the Honorable Thomas C. Sawyer, U.S. House of Representatives: While the Census Bureau is making its multi-phasic preparations for the Census of the year 2000, may I respectfully call your attention to one particular aspect. My enclosed article, _Yiddish and the Census Bureau_, published in the _Congress Monthly_, official organ of the Ameriucan Jewish Congress, spells out in detail my special concern. My sharp and exhaustive critique of the Yiddish translation of the 1990 Census Questionnaire was also published in the _Jewish Press_ (Brooklyn), in the language quarterly _Verbatim_, and in the literary Yiddish journal _afn shvel_. It is the need of Yiddish-speaking citizens that the next Yiddish translation of the Census Questionnaire not be an insult to our eyes and ears, indeed to our past, and be done in a respectful manner with proper regard for the language and its structures. Only such a translation will accomplish the purpose of having Yiddish- speaking citizens participate fully and joyfully in the endeavor of a complete national count. While I do not know how the other 31 foreign language translations of the Questionnaire fared, I appeal here as a native Yiddish speaker and Yiddish writer. Since you are a former English teacher, I am sure of your deep sense of regard and respect for all languages. But the respect that, I believe, we owe Yiddish is a special case. During World War II six million Jews were murdered, about four-and-a-half million of them Yiddish speakers. I see Yiddish, lost and bewildered, in tattered clothes and with ash on her head, wandering from one shtetl to another, mourning after her children whose mother tongue was cut out. May I respectfully ask you and your Committee to make certain that the Yiddish translation of the Census Questionnaire for the year 2000 will meet all lawful language requirements of Yiddish. Zellig Bach 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Sep 94 22:53:00 UTC From: m.feins@genie.geis.com Subject: Address change Since I have posted questions to various mendelniks recently, I would like to advise that I have changed my address on Mendele today, from Evelyn Feins to M.Feins@Genie.Geis.Com. Evelyn Quartin Feins 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thurs, 22 Sep 94 9:37 From: nmiller@trincoll.edu Subject: What to do if/when Mendele stops I apologize for taking up time and space with housekeeping but sometimes it's necessary. Until recently we used to get a lot of bounced mail: copies of Mendele that couldn't get delivered for one reason or another. Now it seems such names are being automatically deleted by the listserver. Instead we get letters from subscribers asking why they don't get Mendele any more. The answer (in general) is: something was wrong with your account or your machine. Nothing personal. If you haven't heard from Mendele in a week it's highly likely that something went wrong with your subscription. The solution is straightforward. Instead of writing to the shames (who will simply repeat this message), please resubscribe. The procedure remains: sub mendele firstname lastname to listserv@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu Un zayt mir gezunt! Noyekh Miller ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 4.110 Mendele has 2 rules: 1. Provide a meaningful Subject: line 2. Sign your article (full name please) A Table of Contents is now available via anonymous ftp, along with weekly updates. Anonymous ftp archives available on: ftp.mendele.trincoll.edu in the directory pub/mendele/files Archives available via gopher on: gopher.cic.net Send articles to: mendele@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu Other business: nmiller@mail.trincoll.edu