Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 4.129 October 7, 1994 1) The Language Instinct (Steve Pinker) 2) Derekh eretz for Yiddish (Harvey Spiro) 3) Unkosher tomatoes in Poland (Bob Werman) 4) Klezmer concerts in Philadelphia (Alan Lankin) 5) Nokh a shul (Arre Komar) 6) Milgroymen un mitsves (Shleyme Axelrod) 7) Code-Switching (Yitzkhok Payne) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 5 Oct 94 14:49:13 EDT From: steve@psyche.mit.edu Subject: The Language Instinct Dear Mendele Correspondents, I was amused and englightened to read the recent discussion (kindly forwarded to me by several colleagues) of a Yiddish example used in my recent book The Language Instinct. I had rendered the saying as "Az der bubbe vot gehat baytzim vot zie geven mein zayde," and I had already received several letters pointing out that it was puzzlingly nonstandard. Here is the background. I am not a speaker of Yiddish (to my everlasting regret), though the saying was familiar to me. I sought the exact wording from my father, Harry Pinker, a native speaker. He was born in Montreal, the son of poor immigrants from Krasnystaw, Poland (near Lublin and, perhaps significantly, a town called Chelm). He insists that the pronouns, articles, and verbs are exactly as he has always heard them. The romanization was my fault, and was indeed ad hoc, based in part on my reading of Leo Rosten (who uses multiple, informal romanizations and deprecates standardization). I have already changed the words and spelling to the YIVO standard for the next edition. The Language Instinct, by the way, has extensive discussions of dialects, standardized spelling, and attempts to prescribe "correct" usage. The latter is discussed in a chapter entitled -- what else? -- "The Language Mavens." Sincerely, Steve Pinker 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu Oct 6 16:41:25 1994 From: hjs@nrc.gov Subject: Derekh eretz for Yiddish I'd like to make a belated contribution to the debate sparked last month by Zellig Bach (Mendele 4.102). I interpreted his proposal as a somewhat daunting but polite plea for derekh eretz towards Yiddish in Mendele. I'd like to append that plea with one for tolerance of the limitations of fellow Mendelniks. Zellig Bach views Mendele as a "clearing house," "exchange forum" and ultimately a society (khavruse) for all aspects of Yiddish language and literature. I contend that it does an admirable job of doing so, despite the vast differences in facility with Yiddish among its members. In the few months since I first subscribed, I have been enlightened and entertained, puzzled and outraged, "nudzhet" and challenged -- and sometimes all within a single Mendele edition!! Here's the problem as I see it: 1. Klal shprakh is an artificial construct. Although it is now the standard accepted by most scholars, I believe that no one actually spoke klal shprakh two generations ago (except perhaps YIVO scholars). I agree that newcomers to Yiddish should learn klal shprakh, and publications should use its standards. Its use therefore should be *encouraged* (but not required) in Mendele. 2. Many Mendelniks do not know klal shprakh. Some learned Yiddish several decades ago, from parents and grandparents who spoke their own dialects, some of whom spoke a more "educated" Yiddish than others. Others heard a mix of regional dialects, and therefore remember a mishmash of differing pronunciation rules. Many stopped hearing or speaking Yiddish in their childhood, and therefore never developed beyond a child's language level. 3. Although standards are important, dialects add character to Yiddish. While promoting the YIVO standard, let's not lose the richness of regional accents that permeates our folklore (cf. Olsvanger's "Royte Pomerantzen" and "L'Chaim") and music (/Bay mir bist du *gut*, bay mir host du "it"/ just doesn't scan!!). 4. Lovers of Yiddish are unfortunately a dwindling group. I'd prefer that we keep Mendele open to contributions from all, whatever their dialect or even limited grammatical abilities. There is much to be learned from recollections, however faulty their transmission. All that notwithstanding, to state that "anything goes" in Yiddish spelling or grammar is as naive or disparaging as making that claim for Italian or English or other languages. Those who are interested in Yiddish as more than just a vehicle for nostalgia should want to learn its grammar and standard Romanization. However, I realize that not all Mendelniks are interested in doing so. Historically, Jews have endured derogatory comments about their mame loshn. This is similar to the experience of many other minority language communities. However, in the aftermath of the Nazi and Soviet terrors that eradicated Yiddish culture, it is much more painful when the disrespect comes from fellow Jews, in particular the descendents of Yiddish speakers. These are not the arguments of Czernowitz, or even early Zionism, over language and nationhood. Like Israel in the UN, Yiddish does not need to justify its existence or legitimacy, davka not in Mendele. I am grateful to the more fluent Mendelniks who routinely correct our generic mistakes, and appreciate the opportunity to learn from those who are more familiar with the language. I urge them to continue; there's a wealth of knowledge of Yiddish language and culture within our khevra that needs to be disseminated. Mame loshn deserves our respect, but we can honor it without alienating those who spell "Noyekh mit zibn grayzn" or speak with an unabashedly Galitzianer accent. Harvey Spiro 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 6 Oct 94 23:12 +0200 From: RWERMAN%HUJIVMS.bitnet@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu Subject: Unkosher tomatoes in Poland About 30 years ago (between 1964-1967), I read a monograph on an area of Poland where the Rabbis declared the tomato (love fruit or pomme d'amour, agvaniya in Hebrew, from agavim, love making) as not kosher. This ban lasted some two hundred years. At the same time, according to this article, the area of Poland was characterized by specialized characteristics in its Yiddish. As a non-linguist, I unconscionably forgot the details. Could you good folks please point me to: 1] The name of the article, its reference and author; 2] The area of Poland under discussion; 3] The peculiar characteristics of the Yiddish of this area. Bob Werman 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: 06 Oct 94 15:47:19 EDT From: 73302.2024@compuserve.com Subject: Klezmer concerts in Philadelphia There's a bunch of Klezmer concerts in the Philadelphia area this fall: Kapalye - Sat, Oct 15 @ Gratz College, Melrose Park, PA Klezmatics - Sun, Nov 6 @ Keswick Theatre, Glenside, PA Don Byron playing the music of Mickey Katz - Sat, Dec 17 @ International House, Philadelphia PA. Alan Lankin 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 22:02:51 -0400 (EDT) From: komar@yu1.yu.edu Subject: Nokh a shul Oy , di yomtavim zint shen foriber un di shumfen feyngt shen vayter on! Perzenlikh ikh find Yivo oyslegung bekveym, un aykhet kan ikh farshteyen soviet yiddish un aykhet a por andere (e.g. ALA). Ober men darf nisht a naye shul boyen derfar. Az mir zint geseygnet mit a khesedike shamus kennen mir alle blaybn unter di zelber dakh un voynen alle tsuzammen in sholem. Tsu fil gramatic iz take a bissel langvaylig, ober me kent entveder lezn dos un lernen eppis oder shnel shlogen durkh al di drek vi me volt. Men darf nisht davnen yeder vort um Mendele tsu geniesen. Ikh bet aykh alle, mir zint a zeyer kleyner bund fun khaverim; eyn shul iz genug far unz alle. Azoy lang vi unzer shamus lozt allemen do blaybn, mir alle zol blaybn do. Arre Komar 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 06 Oct 1994 21:53:34 -0400 (EDT) From: ptyaxel@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu Subject: Milgroymen un mitsves Jules Levin, in a discussion of "pomegranate", asks for the Yiddish of "hand grenade". Weinreich gives for "grenade" _der granat_; Harkavy has _[di] granate_. There is a charming tradition that pomegranates have 613 seeds, representing the _taryag mitsves_. Shleyme Axelrod 7)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 23:43:59 -0400 (EDT) From: jmpayne@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Subject: Code-Switching This is for Heidi Shetzer. I'm not sure this is precisely what you're looking for, but you will probably find it helpful and interesting. Try an article called "A Defense of Yiddish in Old Yiddish Literature" by Israel Zinberg. It's in Never Say Die (ed. J. Fishman, 1981). The article is suggestive of Yiddish as an intentionally subversive force in literature, secular and otherwise. There's also an article in the Fishman edition, can't remember article's title, about a Yiddish study group and the dynamics therein. Also try Deborah Tannen, "New York Jewish Conversational Styles" (International Journal of Sociology of Language, 1981). Hope they help. Good hunting. Jason (Yitzkhok) Payne ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 4.129 Mendele has 2 rules: 1. 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