Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 4.154 October 26, 1994 1) Hefker petrishke (Bob Rothstein) 2) Hefker petrishke (Mikhl Herzog) 3) Hefker petrishke (Raphael Finkel) 4) Groyser Verterbukh (Mikhl Herzog) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 23:52:32 -0400 (EDT) From: rar@slavic.umass.edu Subject: Hefker petrishke In Yiddish as well as in Russian, Polish, Ukrainian, etc., _petrushka_ is parsley and _pasternak_ is parsnips, but since the roots of the two plants are similar, parsnips are sometimes thought to be the root of the parsley plant (folk botany?). In vol. 14, no. 3 of _Yidishe shprakh_ (July-Sept. 1954), pp. 92-3, Alef Katz suggests that the expression _hefker petrishke_ comes from the world of the _beys-medresh_. He cites a passage from the mishnah Sheviis 9, which lists various fruits and vegetables that are not subject to a tithe (_meyser_) and suggests that someone joked about parsley being a bargain since it grows wild (_hefker_) and is tax-free: _hefker petrishke!_ The joke, he suggests, spread, and eventually the expression took on two meanings: 'worthless' (cf. _s'iz vert a petrishke_, cited by Harkavy) and 'free, out of control.' Bob Rothstein 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 25 Oct 94 09:46 EDT From: zogur@cuvmb.columbia.edu Subject: Parsnips Mottel Lakin. I've known nothing about "Punch and Judy" but "hefker pyetrishke" was always, well, "hefker pyetreshke", having something to do with wild parsley, I thought. The Jewish family name Petrushka is a prominent one in Montreal, by the way. Petrushka translated the Mishna into Yiddish. As for 'parsnips', another prominent family name, Pasternak. Mikhl Herzog 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 11:02:18 EDT From: raphael@ms.uky.edu Subject: Petruskhe A khaver mayner fun poyln lozt visn az 'pol: pietruszke' iz 'eng: parsley', nit 'eng: parsnip', khotsh 'petrushke' iz zikher 'eng: parsnip'. (Vi zogt men 'eng: parsley'?) Tsveytns, zogt er mir az 'pol: siac pietruszke' meynt 'opnarn', vi in 'pol: Nie siej mi tu pietruszki', vos iz der taytsh 'nar mikh nit op'. Ken zayn az 'hefker petrushke' meynt 'fardult' fun dem poylish. Raphael Finkel 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 25 Oct 94 00:07 EDT From: zogur@cuvmb.columbia.edu Subject: Groyser verterbukk In response to Ruben Frankenstein's timely question: Some history: The verterbukh project was conducted first under the aegis of the City College of CUNY, then at the City College in conjunction with the Hebrew University of Jerusalem (for a while in conjunction with Columbia University), and in the last phase of its activity, at Columbia University and the Hebrew University, with the cooperation of YIVO. An Editorial Board of linguists and literary specialists in the US and Israel oversaw the effort. Volumes 1-4 (covering the letter "alef") were published. The "beyz" entries for volume 5, and some selected entries for several later volumes are available in a partially edited manuscript and on disk. In addition, innumerable (would you believe a million?) hand-written 3 x 5 "tsetelekh", with citations from the literature, for words with "giml" to "tof", are stored in filing cabinets. Copies of all the materials are housed both at the Hebrew University and at Columbia. Some are also housed at YIVO. The multi-dimensional problem: i) Funding. The project entered a "dormant" phase when funding was terminated in 1988. The termination of, largely US government, support came when progress over a period of time was deemed to have been inadequate. In large measure, the inadequacy was the result of unresolved computerization problems. I am not sufficiently well-versed in high-tech matters to be able to make these problems explicit myself but, I do know that if the project were to be resumed today, the problems would no longer be as formidable, and that help in resolving them would be forthcoming from previously unforseen quarters. ii) "Tofasto merubo lo tofasto". The _scope_ of the dictionary, as originally projected, was to include _all_ of Yiddish from its earliest (13th century?) records to the present day. Whether or not this was ever a realistic goal, it was evident to most of us engaged in the effort that we were probably insufficiently qualified to deal with pre-18th century materials. After 1988, an alternate scenario, proposed by the Editorial Board, was to restrict the corpus to the "modern" (post-18th century) period, in the event that the project was resumed. Still another possibility, now under investigation, is that it is possible to assemble quite a separate team of people especially qualified to work on pre-18th century materials. iii) Personnel. If funding were available to resume the project, there is good reason to think that the US, Israel, and Europe could still provide an adequate number of qualified lexicographic and editorial personnel, in addition to an advisory Editorial Board, to bring the effort to a successful conclusion. The paradox: No new funding can possibly become available before a fully qualified and committed lexicographic and editorial staff is demonstrably available, including an Editor-in-Chief and editorial associates, together with the FULL support of an appropriate institution and all that that implies. The latter is a sine qua non. Where do we stand? Although interest in resuming the project has recently been expressed in new quarters, it would be premature to provide any details about these overtures before the Editorial Board of the Dictionary and its institutional partners have been satisfied that the conditions described in the preceding paragraph can actually be met. Is there anyone else out there who would like to try to meet them? All offers considered! Mikhl Herzog ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 4.154 Mendele has 2 rules: 1. Provide a meaningful Subject: line 2. Sign your article (full name please) A Table of Contents is now available via anonymous ftp, along with weekly updates. Anonymous ftp archives available on: ftp.mendele.trincoll.edu in the directory pub/mendele/files Archives available via gopher on: gopher.cic.net Send articles to: mendele@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu Send change-of-status messages to: listserv@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu a. For a temporary stop: set mendele nomail b. To resume delivery: set mendele mail c. To unsubscribe kholile: unsub mendele Other business: nmiller@mail.trincoll.edu