Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 4.215 December 5, 1994 1) Nishdogedakht (Izaly Zemtsovsky) 2) Dialectics (Arre Komar) 3) Getting the word out (Brian Zumhagen) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 4 Dec 1994 19:49:19 -0600 From: kunanbay@facstaff.wisc.edu Subject: Nishdogedakht It was so popular among so-called Belorussian Jewry! I well remember from my family (descended from Vitebsk region) the only pronunciation without 'sh', i.e. 'nidogidakht'. Frankly, I 'm in using this word up today just in such form. I remember one day in St.Petersburg when a friend of mine (he is from Litvaks, I guess) answered me about one new Soviet opera abruptly and capaciously: "Nidogidakht!" At once it became clear this music not for us... Izaly Zemtsovsky 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 4 Dec 1994 21:01:54 -0500 (EST) From: komar@yu1.yu.edu Subject: Dialectics In the discussion re what authority decides proper usage if not the average native speaker, most languages have an advantage over Yiddish. This is due to the fact that they have or have had in their past a national state which sanctioned one particular dialect over all others. Thus was established the "correct" usage. This applies not only to vocabulary and spelling but also to grammatical rules. Yiddish was never so blessed (or cursed, depending on your viewpoint). There seems to be a self styled academy growing in the American Universities, but it seems that they may be divorced from the surviving speakers of the living language, the Hasidim. Has anyone looked into the Hasidic press to see the degree to which their usage agrees or disagrees with the language being taught in the Universities? And if they differ does it become a question of right vs. wrong? And if so, who is to decide? Some dialect questions: Ikh bin gegangn or ikh hob gegangn ? (I prefer the former but have heard dialects in which the latter is consistently employed.) Ikh lib dikh or ikh lib dir or ikh hob dikh lib or ikh hob dir lib? (Note: I'm quite familiar with proper German gramatical usage, but does that make it the "correct" Yiddish usage? Remember, the Germans have been blessed by having a national state.) Other dialect items: I have been informed that in the area around Lodz there existed prior to WWII the first person dual nominative form oon (as opposed to enk). Can anyone confirm this? If so how would the verb decline? tshatshke vs. tsatske Clearly these are dialect distinctions in pronunciation. However it his been my experience in my parents' dialect to hear it pronounced both ways, with a resulting distinction in meaning and/or usage: Vos far a tshatshke hostu gekoyft? (i.e. worthless trinket) Oy iz zi a tsatske! (i.e. sarcastic implication of nastiness) Is this distinction recognized by anyone else out there? Tsi es git emetsn vos (or ver)... vs. Tsi 'siz faran emetsn vos (ver) .... vs.... Tsi 'siz emetsn vos (ver) ... I notice that the faran usage seems to be prefered here, however many Yiddish speakers that I've met find it redundant or even puzzling. And certainly I don't find agreement on vos vs. ver even though the latter is more logical. Finally, on a some what different issue, transliterated spelling: Clearly with with the varied dialects there can be no agreement on standardized spelling. I feel rather comfortable with the Yivo sheme currently being promoted. However there are aspects of the Soviet scheme which are superior, e.g. x vs. kh, c vs. ts, c^ vs. tsh. (In Chinese Pinyin they have adopted the x and c usage, which makes it almost half of mankind |-). ) Any thoughts? Arre Komar 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 4 Dec 1994 22:19:21 -0500 From: branstone@aol.com Subject: Getting the word out In response to my posting about media attention for Mendele, Louis Fridhandler wrote to me: "I dare say a few selected interviews in depth with some Mendelniks might turn up some extremely interesting stories, dramatic sagas perhaps. We are a varied lot. All are united by this love for a culture (language and literature) mauled by history. One phenomenon I find especially interesting is the number of non-Jewish Mendelniks who have developed both facility and love for Yiddish. There is one even in Germany. In a movie set in Montreal, "Lies My Father Told Me," a little boy asks his Zeyde, "Do you believe in miracles?" His Zeyde replies (without skipping a beat), "No, but I rely on them." The internet itself is a miracle. The survival of Yiddish is a special one. Yiddishists still rely on miracles. The irony is that Yiddish culture has been mainly a secular enterprise. The focus of a radio program need not be on the internet itself, but on the fact that the internet has functioned to bring together widely scattered devotees of Yiddish. Generally they don't live close enough to form a critical cultural mass. They are too dilute. The internet in this case does something out of the ordinary." I couldn't agree with him more. For this reason, I would like to call upon Mendelniks to e-mail me personally with your Mendele tales... how you got turned on to Mendele, why it's important to you, what your level of ability is. Please write even if you are new or have a low level of Yiddish ability (like me). I would like very much to put together a story for the print media, in addition to radio. If any of you live in the San Francisco Bay Area, or in Boston, I could perhaps do live interviews with you. Note: Anyone who would like to be interviewed or to submit writings to me needs to be comfortable with the idea that they may be aired publicly. We can discuss this on an individual basis, as well. Brian Zumhagen ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 4.215 Mendele has 2 rules: 1. Provide a meaningful Subject: line 2. Sign your article (full name please) A Table of Contents is now available via anonymous ftp, along with weekly updates. Anonymous ftp archives available on: ftp.mendele.trincoll.edu in the directory pub/mendele/files Archives available via gopher on: gopher.cic.net Send articles to: mendele@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu Send change-of-status messages to: listserv@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu a. For a temporary stop: set mendele nomail b. To resume delivery: set mendele mail c. To subscribe: sub mendele first_name last_name d. To unsubscribe kholile: unsub mendele Other business: nmiller@mail.trincoll.edu