Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 4.236 December 14, 1994 1) Geography (Kathryn Hellerstein) 2) On [RR] requests (Anno Siegel) 3) Pronouncing "geooghit" (Dovid Braun) 4) Pronouncing "geooghit" (Khayem Bochner) 5) Pronouncing "geooghit" /ankle pain (Shleyme Axelrod) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 05:55:43 -0500 (EST) From: khellers@sas.upenn.edu (Kathryn Hellerstein) Subject: geography Can anyone out there tell me precisely where Otvotsk (Otwock), the resort town with hot springs, I think, and Bereze-Kartuskay are/were located? I'm especially interested in knowing which national borders they fell within circa 1923. Thanks. Kathryn Hellerstein 2)--------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 14 Dec 94 11:04:17 +0100 From: anno4000@w172zrz.zrz.tu-berlin.de Subject: On [RR] requests A much belated comment on Zellig Bach's proposal to handle revision requests: I am all for it, and many good reasons have been metioned on Mendele which I don't need to repeat. There is just one part of the proposal that bothers me: >3. The flag [RR] will promptly be deleted, so nobody, except the author, >will know that a review was done. Thus no stigma whatsoever will attach >to an [RR] request. While this is certainly well meant, I don't like the idea for two reasons: If I were in the situation to send something out in Yiddish with an [RR] request, I'd definitely want the readers to know my text has been revised. Otherwise I'd feel I'm decking myself out in borrowed plumes. I might even get a Yiddish reply that went way over my head which, IMO, would be more embarrassing than to openly state that I'm not quite sure of my Yiddish. Now this isn't very likely in my case -- I'd probably take hours to produce something that might be justly deemed beyond repair. But for a learner of Yiddish, the [RR], if it remained with a message, would be a valuable hint that the text has been checked by a native speaker and can be safely taken at face value. It would thus make Mendele an even more valuable instrument in learning (or picking up) some Yiddish. Zayt ir ale gezunt, [RR] :-) Anno Siegel 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 13 Dec 1994 18:34:07 EST From: dovid@mit.edu Subject: Pronouncing "geooghit" Thanks, Dan Leeson, for explaining how to pronounce the word "geooghit". Upon first seeing it, I imagined some 15 ways that you might have meant for it to be pronounced, and none of them were familiar to me. Graphically, it reminded me of the spelling "ghoti" for 'fish'. And just as _ghoti_ is graphically quite far from _fish_, "geooghit" is quite far from the way the word would be written in a developed system of transliteration/transcription/Romanization. More below. Indeed, it _is_ hard to describe sounds! One of the best arguments in the world for a standard transliteration or transcription system (for individuals languages, and for all languages). If I understood your answer correctly, "geooghit" would be rendered _zhuzhet_ in the system worked out for Yiddish romanization. (I'm familiar with _es zhumet in di oyern_, so I've learned something new.) With a developed system, the (say) 500 out of ca. 600 readers of Mendele who are more or less familiar with the system will now be able to read the word with no difficulty. Lang lebn zoln sistemen! Btw, a refue shleyme! Dovid Braun 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 14 Dec 94 11:27:54 -0500 From: bochner@das.harvard.edu Subject: Pronouncing "geooghit" A, ir vilt zogn 'zhuzhet'! Avade! 'zhuzhen' iz taytsh 'hum, buz', mer/veyniker dos zelbike vos 'zhumen'. Mir zhuzhet zikh a mol oykh in di oyern ;-( Nor ver volt zikh gekent forshteln az mit "geooghit" hot ir gevolt ibergebn 'zhuzhet'? Khayem 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 12:37:26 -0500 (EST) From: Seymour Axelrod Subject: Pronouncing "geooghit" /ankle pain Ah, the usefulness of YIVO romanization! Dan Leeson's description of the pronunciation of "geooghit" makes it clear (?) that the word is "zhuzhet", from "zhuzhen" meaning 'hum, drone'. So it's tinnitus, not earache, that's being described. For "I have an earache", what's wrong with 'der oyer tut mir vey', or 'es tut mir vey der oyer"? For ankle pain, 'dos knekhl tut mir vey", etc. "Klapn" and "hakn" seem to describe the character or feel of particular pains, rather than their sites. "Shtekhn" is another such verb; no doubt there are others. Shleyme Axelrod ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 4.236 Mendele has 2 rules: 1. Provide a meaningful Subject: line 2. Sign your article (full name please) A Table of Contents is now available via anonymous ftp, along with weekly updates. Anonymous ftp archives available on: ftp.mendele.trincoll.edu in the directory pub/mendele/files Archives available via gopher on: gopher.cic.net Send articles to: mendele@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu Send change-of-status messages to: listserv@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu a. For a temporary stop: set mendele nomail b. To resume delivery: set mendele mail c. To subscribe: sub mendele first_name last_name d. To unsubscribe kholile: unsub mendele Other business: nmiller@mail.trincoll.edu