Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 4.271 January 11, 1995 1) Lehavdl (Ellen Prince) 2) Keeping the list together (Rick Gildemeister) 3) Reb Yid (Moshe Waldoks) 4) Alte zakhn (Kathryn Hellerstein) 5) Explaining the exotic (Leon Lipson) 6) Brandeis Institute (Berel Leiser) 7) Entfern af mendelbriv: a bakoshe (Meylekh Viswanath) 8) More, more Yiddish! (Louis Fridhandler) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 09 Jan 1995 11:19:41 EST From: ellen@central.cis.upenn.edu Subject: lehavdl zellig bach writes: >>Similarly, if one mentions in the same breath the name of a deceased and >>a living person, the prompt interposing of a "lehavdl" is obligatory . michael shimshoni replies: >This may be the use in Yiddish, but in Hebrew we would not use lehavdl >here but after (or before) the name of the living: "yibadel lehayim" >(zol zayn opgesheydt tsum lebn). Sometimes one puts it even "lehayim >aruqim" (tsu lange yorn). in my family, lehavdl was never used for this, either. the standard thing was _dir/aykh/im/ir tsu lange yorn_. in our 'yinglish/english', it was _you/he/she should live and be well_. ellen prince 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 09 Jan 95 12:26:32 EST From: eeglc%cunyvm.bitnet@yalevm.cis.yale.edu Subject: Keeping the list together My wish is that the list continue as it is. I'm not a professional scholar, but I consider myself an intellectual (I'm a bibliotekar) and a Yiddishist. I came to Yiddishkayt very early in life from a completely foreign back- ground, and I feel that I can understand both "sides" in this debate. I've never taken a course in Yiddish, but am self-taught. Perhaps Ellen Prince's experience trying to have a radio program be both a scholarly piece and an entertaining event is relevant here. I enjoyed her program partly from the entertainment level, but I also was impressed by the scholarship. I'm not a "scholar" but I understand scholars, have been around them all my life, and what they have to say interests me a great deal. I think we should take a positive attitude toward the scholarly/technical mission of the list. Are some people perhaps defensive about not being to understand scholarly debate? Well, coming back to Ellen, the majority of her audience probably did not understand her discussion of Bessarabian Yiddish and dialect shift. However, I understood it very clearly and was pleased to hear such a discussion interwoven into the more everyday type of loshn. Maybe that's what we should do here: realize that it is a scholarly list and _learn_ from the scholars. Every time I post something -- "I read somewhere .... " I have had really good responses to it, where one or more scholars has jumped in. A good example was this: it dawned on me one day that I had never heard anything about Jewish music in Western Ashkenaz, so I threw out a question and we got a nice, lively discussion going. Did I have to be a scholar to wonder about it, or ask about it? And if I didn't understand the meaning of the responses, because Mendele is a "mixed list" would a scholar have been taken aback if asked to clarify or explain technical language? I think they need to expect it, and the "lay" members should ask it. To me this is not a big issue. Mir zenen ale gelernte layt! Let's have _confidence_ in our intelligence and not worry too much about what we don't understand. Ask! Freg! Hob a bisl khutspe do, ha! Rick Gildemeister 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 09 Jan 1995 14:50:13 -0500 (EST) From: waldoks@binah.cc.brandeis.edu Subject: Reb Yid efsher bin ikh a bisl tsedreyt ober ikh gedenk az mir hoben gelernt az "reb" iz vos yeder yid hot gerufn a zweyter tsu obhaltn di tzveytens kovid azoy vi men nutzt "Mr." oyf english. "Reb Yid zayt mir azoy gut and loz mir adorchgeyen di koridor." "Reb Yid, halt zich nisht azoy groys mir zenen ale bashafn atzelem elokim. "Reb Yid, vos tuts zich do, epes a yontif." mit kovid, Reb Moshe Waldoks 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 16:11:41 -0500 (EST) From: khellers@sas.upenn.edu Subject: Alte zakhn Today, while taking my children to the doctor's in Tel Aviv I heard the clop-clop of horse hooves and the call "alte zakhn" (pronounced as best I could make out, 'alti zakn') from the mouths of a couple of men in knitted caps, who I assume are the same gentlemen that an earlier writer on Mendele referred to. My kids had just been the subject of a conversation in YIddish that a woman passer-by engaged me in moments before -- and so when I pointed out the Arab wagon-drivers, their horse, and their Yiddish, my children were puzzled and amused. Thank you, fellow Mendelnik and Tel-Avivian, for alerting me! Kathryn Hellerstein 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 04:32:56 -0500 From: llipson@mail.law.yale.edu Subject: Explaining the exotic Some of the discussion on mendele about the academy explaining its mysteries to the laity calls to mind a story from the 1920's. Father, puzzling over the newspaper, asks son: "Irving, you went to college, you know things, tell me what is this business about Relativity?" "Well, pop, it means that everything is relative to something else, that nothing is absolute by itself. Maybe I should give you better a for instance. For instance, say you are sitting down. Sitting is sitting. But if you sit on a hot stove for one second it feels like an hour, while if you sit with a pretty girl on your lap for one hour it feels like a second. So you see, everything is relative." "Ah-ha? Und fun azelkhen narrishkaiten klaibt Einstein parnosseh?" Leon Lipson 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 10 Jan 95 11:59:26 EST From: leiser@pacevm.dac.pace.edu Subject: Brandeis Institute and other venues for Yiddish Education I beg the indulgence of my fellow Mendelniks for two postings in one day, but this one is on a totally different subject. Years ago I learned of the Brandeis Institute in California, which had a wonderful reputation as a place in which Jewish culture was transmitted to those whos e backgrounds were lacking, in one way or another. My question is as follows: Does it still exist? If so, where is it and how does one get in touch with it ? And does anyone know whether its programs contain any Yiddish content? Finally, do any Mendelniks know of other sites where Yiddish instruction might be available during the summer, or (perhaps) of Elder-Hostels aimed at the Yiddish-speaking (or Yiddish wanting-to-speak) oylem? I would be most grateful for any feedback. Burton (Berel) Leiser 7)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 9 Jan 95 18:48:52 EST From: pviswana@andromeda.rutgers.edu Subject: entfern af mendelbriv: a bakoshe Ikh volt alemen gebetn az zey zoln nisht entfern af yekhidim, af mendele. Lemoshl oyb reb 'x' fregt a kashe, reb 'y' shraybt zeyer kerts azoy: _____________________ reb x: ... kerts entfer. reb y. __________________ beser volt geven, meyn ikh, az reb 'y' zol viderderklern di kashe, un dernokh entfern es, farn gantsn mendlreshime, nisht nor far yenem vos hot es im tsuersht gefregt. Meylekh Viswanath 8)---------------------------------------------------- Date: 09 Jan 95 20:19:02 EST From: 74064.1661@compuserve.com Subject: More, more Yiddish! Peter Kluehs un Leybl Botvinik leygn for az mir zoln shraybn mer af yidish. Dos ken take helfn di vos shraybn, un di vos viln leyenen mame-loshn. Amol kumt on an ongeleygter gelengnhayt: dertseyln emetsn vegn internet un Mendele. Darf ikh entfern a kashe, "Vos iz, lemoshl, Mendele?" Blayb ikh farvundert. Take! Vi azoy zol men es oysmoln? S'iz a rehsime fun di vos fartifn zikh in hilkhes mame-loshn. Nisht azoy? Ober dos iz vintsik. Mendele is an elektronishe farzamlung. Mendele iz vi a mark nebn shtetl vi me ken zikh zen mit andere gute shkheynim fun gor der velt, un zikh iberredn a bisl vegn vikhtike inyonim af Yidish, un amol af English. Mendele is a shul vi me ken lernen fun gelernte mentshn. Mendele iz oykh a kval fun freylekher farvaylung. Vi me zogt: zoln di Mendelyaner zikh frukhpern un mern. Louis Fridhandler ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 4.271 Mendele has 2 rules: 1. Provide a meaningful Subject: line 2. Sign your article (full name please) A Table of Contents is now available via anonymous ftp, along with weekly updates. 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