Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 4.305 January 31, 1995 1) Introduction (Mathis Chazanov) 2) The retort too late (Leon Lipson) 3) The retort too late (Victor Bers) 4) The retort too late (Shleyme Axelrod) 5) Kharomes (Shleyme Axelrod) 6) Zababones (Victor Bers) 7) Kenen un konen (Andrew Cassel) 8) Philologos' reliability (Meyshe-Yankel Sweet) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 16:04:45 -0800 (PST) From: chazanov@news.latimes.com Subject: Introduction Finally abashed by the establishment of a ver-iz-der-doziker, I take keyboard in hand to identify myself, a lokerer, a tshatever [_lurker_] (I had to look it up) no more. In my case mame loshen was tate loshen, since my father, Eliyahu z"l, would speak nothing but Yiddish to me fun kintveis ohn. Some Mendelyaner may remember him as a teacher at the Peretz Shule in Winnipeg in the '30s and at the Folk Shule in Chicago in the '40s. An uncle, Alex Robin z"l, was also active in Yiddish circles. Unfortunately, my own contact with Yiddish in recent years was minimal, so Mendele has been a real find. Yeysher koyakh to all! Mathis Chazanov Los Angeles 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 00:36:42 -0500 From: llipson@mail.law.yale.edu Subject: Late smarts In vol.4.300 Adam Weisberger asks for a Yiddish term to denote the perfect report that comes to mind too late. This is what I think is known in Western Europe as l'esprit de l'escalier, staircase-cleverness, what you think of just after you have left the party. I believe that in parts of northern New England (in particular, Vermont) it's called after-wit. And I seem to recall a Yiddish term, nokh-vitz or nokh- khokhme, but that may be an artificial calque from the New England English. Leon Lipson 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 30 Jan 95 19:32 EST From: vbers@yalevm.cis.yale.edu Subject: Mystery word Much as I hate to think that there's something Yiddish has not named more piquantly than any other language, I speculate that the mystery expression is the French l'esprit d'escalier. But if I may be excused the khuzpeh (is my transliteration glatt YIVO?) of a neologism, how about "trepn-hokhme"? And if there is a good Yiddish expression, you may throw me down that set of stairs, shouting "Trepn-nar!" Victor Bers 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 20:05:15 -0500 (EST) From: ptyaxel@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu Subject: Trep-khokhmes Adam Weisberger (4.300) asks for a Yiddish expression meaning crushing retorts thought of, alas, too late to be of use. Di mame mayne flegt zey onrufn 'trep-khokhmes', that is, wickedly witty replies that occur to one on the stairs on the way out of the presence of the opponent--or maybe on the stairs to one's own home--after the confrontation. I believe that the French speak of 'esprits d'escalier'. Shleyme Axelrod Buffalo, New York 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 12:20:33 -0500 (EST) From: ptyaxel@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu> Subject: Kharomes Al Madansky (4.300, 7) cites a collection (_Baym Kval_) of "... _vintshenishn, kloles, kharomes, simonim, sgules, zabobones_...", and asks about _kharomes_ and _zabobones_. I haven't a clue about the latter, but Weinreich gives, under _khromes_ (khes-reysh-mem-vov-sof), the expression _kloles un khromes_ 'vehement curses'. _khromes_ looks here like a variant plural of _kheyrem_ 'Jew. ban, excommunication', whose regular plurals Weinreich gives as _kheyrems, kh(a)romim_. Shleyme Axelrod Buffalo, NY 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 30 Jan 95 19:33 EST From: vbers@yalevm.cis.yale.edu Subject: Zababones In my family of *true* apekorsim, "zababones" means superstition. To avoid internecine strife I won't specify just what that could cover. Victor Bers 7)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 21:59:08 -0500 From: cassel@libertynet.org Subject: Kenen un konen For what it's worth, here are excerpts from a letter I received last week from a real live Litvak -- a landsman a Keidaner vos voynt itst in Kovne, with whom I am having a challenging but rewarding correspondence: "...Ir darft nit zorgn vegn zayn in Lite. Oyb ir vet mir meldn ven ir kumen, _kon_ ikh aykh kumen in Vilne bagegenen un breyngen in Kovne....Men darf in hotel hobn gelt, vet ir hobn a gutn lebn. Far gelt _kon_ men altz koyfn...Far mir perzenlikh _kont_ ir breyngen nor kafe velkhe men darf nit greytn-kokhn.....Ven bay undz iz ovnt, _kont_ ir mir onrufn in telefon, un zogn genoy ven ir kumt ..." Incidentally, can anyone provide guidance as to if and when it might be appropriate, in a correspondence with someone you've not met in person, to begin addressing the other party as "du" rather than "ir"? Andrew Cassel Elkins Park, PA 8)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 29 Jan 95 22:05:18 CST From: msweet@facstaff.wisc.edu Subject: Trumbyenik, Eydlmentsh, and Philologos' reliability Am I the only one who noticed the strange definitions of Yiddish words in Philologos' column a few weeks ago, on a survey he did of readers' knowledge of selected Yiddish words? I no longer have the column in front of me, but his definitions were from an obscure popular work on Yiddish, not from Harkavy, Weinreich, or other authorities. The definitions that most struck me with their eccentricity were "evil-doer" for "trumbyenik" and "(sarcastic) snob" for "eydlmentsh." The normal meaning of trumbyenik is something like a blowhard ne'er do well; I heard "eydlmentsh" used many times in conversation, and always close to its dictionary, non-sarcastic definition of a sensitive, refined, spiritually noble person. This does raise questions about the column's reliability in areas in which I am even less expert than Yiddish; for example, in a March column inspired by a Mendele thread (on the word "feygele") "Arschvogel" is cited as a "common" German pejoritive for a gay male. Unfortunately, this word is not found in any of the comprehensive German slang dictionaries, nor is it known to fluent German speakers of my acquaintance. If Philologos is lurking out there, perhaps he can reply--it's an enjoyable column, and I'm not expecting pedantic exactitude, but at least reasonable accuracy. If not, perhaps Reb Mikhl, Reb Zellig, or one of our other Mendele gelernte would undertake a more scholarly Yiddish language column in the Forward? Meyshe-Yankl Sweet Madison, Wisconsin ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 4.305 Mendele has 2 rules: 1. Provide a meaningful Subject: line 2. Sign your article (full name please) A Table of Contents is now available via anonymous ftp, along with weekly updates. Anonymous ftp archives available on: ftp.mendele.trincoll.edu in the directory pub/mendele/files Archives available via gopher on: gopher.cic.net Send articles to: mendele@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu Send change-of-status messages to: listserv@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu a. For a temporary stop: set mendele nomail b. To resume delivery: set mendele mail c. To subscribe: sub mendele first_name last_name d. To unsubscribe kholile: unsub mendele Other business: nmiller@mail.trincoll.edu