Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 5.032 June 28, 1995 1) The meaning of 'fest' (Eliyahu Juni) 2) Bote = bot? (Vera Szabo) 3) Ungarishe yidn (Vera Szabo) 4) Yiddish and German (Arnie Kuzmack) 5) The name Bessie (Harvey Spiro) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 26 Jun 1995 23:05:52 -0400 From: ao107@freenet.carleton.ca Subject: The meaning of 'fest' In a recent conversation, a 10-year-old cousin of mine, whose native language is Yiddish, referred to a certain sauce as 'a feste maykhl.' In standard Yiddish, this would mean "a stiff food," which isn't exactly what I'm looking for in a sauce; but from the context he plainly meant it in a highly complimentary way--he meant it was great. Among American yeshivishe non-Yiddish speakers, (who often pick up and use quite a lot of Yiddish words,) 'fest' can mean strong, good, or excellent. I imagine the switch came about by non-Yiddish speakers hearing 'fest' used complimentarily in reference to things in which firmness is a desired attribute, e.g. 'a feste shtik holts.' Thus 'feste shikh' in standard Yiddish are stiff (presumably uncomfortable) shoes, while in American Yeshivishese they are excellent (presumably soft) shoes. I've noticed this use of 'fest' by American Yiddish-speakers as well--but until now, it was only by *non-native* speakers who picked up their Yiddish in a yeshiva setting (with no formal instruction), and it was often an object of ridicule among native speakers and those of us who knew better. The cousin in question is an Israeli native speaker, and from a khsidishe (not yeshivishe) home. It would seem that this yeshivishism is spreading much further than I had thought. If by some stroke of luck someone has had the patience to bear with me through this, my question is: how far has this use of 'fest' spread? Has anyone come across it in the secular Yiddish community? Has it made it to Israel faster than I thought, or is my cousin's usage an aberration? Any insight would be appreciated. Eliyahu Juni 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 27 Jun 1995 00:13:19 -0400 (EDT) From: vs55@columbia.edu Subject: Bote = bot? As for the 'bote' in Eliyahu Juni's recent posting 'bot' in Hungarian actually does mean a stick. I wonder if there really is a connection. Vera Szabo 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 27 Jun 1995 00:12:15 -0400 (EDT) From: vs55@columbia.edu Subject: Ungarishe yidn Tayere Mendelniks, Ikh bin a studentke in der yidish program fun kolombie universitet un shrayb yetst mayn magister arbet vegn an ungarish-yidishe folklor zamlung. K'dey oystsuforshn di zamlung, zukh ikh ungarishe yidn - vos elter vos beser - oder mentshen vos shtamen fun an ungarish-yidish heym (2. dor). Der pasiker informant zol zayn greyt tsu zitsen a por sho un entfern frages vegn shprikhverter. Oyb ir zent aza yid / yidene oder kent emetsn vos volt gekent mir helfn, zayt azoy gut un shikt mir a "privatn" elektronishn briv. A dank, Vera Szabo 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 27 Jun 1995 01:36:31 -0400 (EDT) From: kuzmack@umbc.edu Subject: Yiddish and German Leo Kanowitz writes: > Many years ago I read or heard somewhere that Yiddish and German were > both variants of an earlier Germanic language; that Yiddish "stabilized" > earlier than German; and that modern-day Yiddish can, therefore, be > traced back further to its roots than modern-day German.... I am not a scholar in this area and will readily accept correction from those who are. While Yiddish and German both derive from medieval Middle High German, I think that actually modern Standard German is considerably more conservative in preserving older elements. Examples of grammatical elements that remain in Standard German and have disappeared in Yiddish include: 1. The simple past tense. 2. Conjugated present and past subjunctive. 3. The genetive case. 4. In Lithuanian Yiddish, the dative case as well. 5. A full system of strong and weak adjective endings. 6. Declension of nouns (with a few remnants in Yiddish). With respect to "stabilizing" earlier, I am not sure that "stabilizing" has any linguistic meaning. In any case, I think a lay native speaker of German would have an easier time reading a 17th century German text than a Yiddish speaker would with a similar Yiddish text. B'sholem, Arnie Kuzmack 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue Jun 27 09:43:07 1995 From: hjs@nrc.gov Subject: The name Bessie Howard Sage asks about the "translation" of his grandmother's name. He implies that she was called Bessie by English speakers [in the US]. > I was told that the only name matching "Bessie," my > grandmother's name, was the German/Yiddish (?) "Elsa." > My question: could/would Elsa actually be translated as Bessie? I'm providing some non-scholarly responses to this question. The answer he received from officials in Vienna assumed that Bessie was a version of the name Elisabeth, a variant of which could be Elsa or Elsabeth in German. A respondant in Mendele 5.031 suggested Basya or Batya as a more likely Yiddish name connected to Bessie. The problem is that names don't simply "translate" from one language to another. If his grandmother lived in a German-speaking area, she may have been called Elsa; in coming to America, the name may have been interpreted as Elizabeth, which might then have been abbreviated to Bessie. (Had she come to this country at a different age, in a different era, she might equally have chosen to be called Liz or Liza or even Betty or Betsy.) On the other hand, if she came from a Yiddish-speaking environs, a more likely name may have been Basya, or even Basha. Then again, the name Pessie or Pesha was not an uncommon woman's Yiddish name (I'm not sure of the derivation of that name). Name transitions or "translations" are not always obvious, whether in Yiddish or another language. Aleksandr from Moskow may wish to be called Al or Alex or Sandy or Sender if he moves to Brighton Beach, NY, but may choose Avrum or Alon or several other options if he chooses to make aliya. My suggestion is that Howard Sage should take into consideration his grandmother's social environment and cultural affiliations in determining what her name was in "the old country." An urban, middle class, assimilated young Jewish woman from Vienna or Budapest is likely to have chosen a different name from that chosen by a poor, religious woman from a Polish shtetl. Harvey Spiro Vienna, Virginia ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 5.032 Mendele has 2 rules: 1. Provide a meaningful Subject: line 2. Sign your article (full name please) Send articles to: mendele@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu Send change-of-status messages to: listserv@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu a. For a temporary stop: set mendele nomail b. To resume delivery: set mendele mail c. To subscribe: sub mendele first_name last_name d. To unsubscribe kholile: unsub mendele Other business: nmiller@mail.trincoll.edu ****Getting back issues**** 1. Anonymous ftp archives are available. ftp ftp.mendele.trincoll.edu in the directory pub/mendele/files A table of contents is also available, along with weekly updates. 2. 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