Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 5.074 August 4, 1995 1) Transliterating dialect (David Sherman) 2) Skotsl kumt: a correction (Adrienne Maltz) 3) Skotsl kumt nokh amol (Ruben Frankenstein) 4) Literary translation project (Ken Wishnia) 5) The Golem and municipal bonds (Adam Whiteman) 6) Indexing Mendele (David Sherman) 7) Nit(e)l (Ruben Frankenstein) 8) Personal notices (Susan Hauser) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 2 Aug 95 12:15:55 EDT From: dave@cai.lsuc.on.ca Subject: Transliterating dialect I'm not sure I agree with Sol Jaffe, who suggests writing "Vays ikh vues!" to convey a non-YIVO dialect. I would prefer to retain the YIVO spelling, and simply understand that (for me) it's pronounced differently. Thus, I write "veys ikh vos" and pronounce it much as Sol's example. In other words, "ey" is not necessarily pronounced as in "they". For a southern Yiddish dialect, "ey" is pronounced as in "thy". And "ay" is pronounced approximately "aa". This is no different than an Australian writing the name of his country as "Australia", even though he pronounces it "Austrilia". [In WWII, an injured American soldier is evacuated to an Australian medical barracks. He wakes up after a long period and says to the nurse, "I supposed I've been brought here to die." She replies, "No, mite. Yesterdie."] David Sherman 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 21:03:42 -0400 (EDT) From: akmaltz@cpcug.org Subject: Skotsl kumt: a correction In my posting "skotsl kumt" I made an error: it was the royter *momzer* (don't know correct transliteration for vowel-less words) not the royter gonif. When my mother was a small child she was caught helping herself to baked apples stashed on a high shelf by a baby-sitting relative who called her "du reyte (litvak style pronunciation) gonif" -- my mother could never understand why "reyte" since she was a blonde. Is it a stock expression, perhaps related to being caught "red-handed"? I should have mentioned that the date on the Forward that mentions "skatsl kumt" was 1897. Whew!, that's better! Adrienne Maltz Potomac, Maryland 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 12:47:20 +0200 (MESZ) From: frankens@mibm.ruf.uni-freiburg.de Subject: Skotsl kumt nokh amol Ir vilt visn, fun vanen es nemt zakh der vort "skotsl kumt"? Vel ikh aykh dartseylen a mayse, vet ir visn. Amol hobn di vayber gemakht a bunt, vos alsding af der velt hobn di mener: ale mitsves musn m`kayem zayn di mener, aliyes krigen di mener, alsding mener. Un di vayber iz gornit, me kukt gor nit af zey. Hoben zey zakh tsuzamengekliben, un zey hoben gevelt zakh klogen far`n Rebeyne-shel-eylom. Iz vi tut men? Hoben zey gepaskent zey zolen zakh shtelen eyne af der anderer, azey heykh biz di eybershte zol dargrey- khen in himel arayn. Hot men gemakht a grub in der erd, un me hot genumen a heykerdike idene, un me hot ir arayngeleygt mit dem heyker in grub. Un di andere vayber hot men arufgeleygt eyne af der anderer. Tsueybersht iz arufgegangen eyne a idene, vos hot geheysen Skotsel (a nomen aza!), vayle zi hot gekent gut reyden mit Got. Kolzman (as long as) di vayber zanen gekrokhen eyne af der anderer, iz gegangen gut. Un vi Skotsel hot zakh arufgekhapt af`n shpits, hot di heykerte zakh darlangt a drey, un vifel es iz geven vayber eyne af der anderer, zanen zey ale aropgefalen. Iz dokh gevoren a rash (a confusion), men hot genumen zukhen eyne di tsveyte. Ober Skotsel iz farfalen gevoren, un me hot zi nit gekent gefinen. Iz keyner nit geven, ver es zol kenen reyden mit Got, zanen di vayber gebliben azey vi zey zanen geven, un als iz gebliben ba di mener. Ober di vayber hoben nokh di hofenung nit farloren, un yeder mol, ven es kumt arayn a idene in shtub, freyt men zakh, vayl me meynt, az dos iz efsher Skotsel. Dariber zogt men: "Skotsel kumt". This etymology you may find in Immanuel Olsvanger`s "Rosinkes mit Mandlen". I copied it just for the benefit of all Mendelniks who do not have this wonderful book. Reuven Frankenstein Freiburg 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 02 Aug 1995 21:46:42 -0500 (EST) From: kwishnia@ccmail.sunysb.edu Subject: Literary translation project I introduced myself a few weeks back as a Doctoral Candidate in Comparative Studies at SUNY Stony Brook. I will be giving a short paper at this year's MLA Conference on problems of translating multilingual immigrant source texts, and I would greatly appreciate your knowledge and experience in helping me to select an appropriate translating project. I am particularly interested in two possible projects: I would very much like to work on Morris Rosenfeld's play, "Rent Strayk," a two-scene one-act in volume 2 of the 1912 Forverts edition of Rosenfeld's works. My second choice is Jacob Gordin's satire, "Iezus Kristus un Karl Marx tzu gast in New York," in volume 2 of the Hebrew Publishing Co.'s 1910 edition of the complete works. There are many other possibilities, however, does anyone know of a substantial reason why I shouldn't choose one of these works? (e.g., someone out there is already translating them, the rights have been sold until the year 3000, etc.) Please let me know, because with so many authors worthy of translation into English, and so few translators, it doesn't make any sense for two people to be translating the same work, or to produce an unpublishable translation. Thank you. Ken Wishnia 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: 02 Aug 95 21:50:58 EDT From: 74031.775@compuserve.com Subject: The Golem and municipal bonds The July 24th edition of the Bond Buyer newspaper, a trade newspaper for the US municipal bond industry, had a wonderful headline that caught my eye: NatCity Hires McDonald's Golem as Inquiry Continues Knowing the author of the article I can vouch that the double meaning of this headline was purely unintentional. It has neither to do with McDonalds hamburgers nor the Golem. NatCity is an investment banking and brokerage firm that highered a Mr. Dennis Golem as a managing director. What is the history of the word golem - or geylem as we litvaks pronounce it - in both Hebrew and Yiddish? Adam Whiteman Queens, NY 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 3 Aug 95 3:28:21 EDT From: dave@cai.lsuc.on.ca Subject: Indexing Mendele Full text searches and searches of the Table of Contents are wonderful things, but they're not the same as an index. I do a lot of indexing in my field (Canadian tax law -- I index the Income Tax Act and numerous other publications), and a good index should be far better than any full-text search. The problem with electronic searching is that you don't know exactly what to search for. This problem is magnified many times over on Mendele because of all the different ways you can find things spelled. Imagine searching for Sholem Aleykhem and missing the posts that spelled it (albeit "wrongly") Aleichem. Not to mention hitting all the posts that referred to the name in some peripheral context. A good index can be scanned rather than just searched. There are only so many top-level entries, after all. A good index to Mendele will group all the discussion of a given topic together, and will also provide information as to the content of those posts -- where possible, a 1-3 word summary showing which way the post is headed. It will also group all the discussion of a topic under one heading, and provide many multiple cross-references from all the synonyms under which someone might look, whether or not those synonyms were used in the actual posts. And, of course, if a synonym was used, it will still cross-reference to the main entry even though that main entry term didn't appear in the post. It's not a trivial job, with four years of posts (how many megabytes is that, Noyekh?). [about 9] But I bet it could be a masters' thesis project for a grad student somewhere. David Sherman 7)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 11:58:56 +0200 (MESZ) From: frankens@mibm.ruf.uni-freiburg.de Subject: Nit(e)l I liked Mikhl Herzog`s attempt to derive "nitel" from the hebrew root TLH and I would be tempted to accept it but I am afraid I cannot, it is much too flimsy and the comparison with the absurd etymology of the german "Heirat" from the hebrew "harey at (mekudeshet li etc.) goes back to him as a boomerang. While it is correct that "nitle" (p. nitla) is the hebrew for "hanged", it is the dynamic passive form in the meaning: "is being (resp. has been) hanged", it is just the static "pa`ul" form which was used in jewish medieval literature instead of the name of Jesus - "ha-tsaluv" (the crossed one) or "ha-taluyi" (the hanged one). From "ha-taluyi" till "Nitl", in earlier Yiddish "nitel" it is quite a long way. Moreover, the root TLH has the "tav" and "nitl" the "tet". There is quite often a shifting of vowels in jewish languages but seldom between consonants like "tet" and "tav". Siegmund Wolf traces "nitel" already in the writings of Moses Isserles (1520-1572) and with most authorities sustains the etimology from the spanish and porttugese "natal" resp. provencal "nadal", latin "natalis". Note the word came also into the hebrew: Even Shoshan Dictionary, citing Agnon. Samuel Rappaport, Vienna gives (in "Juedisches Lexikon") another popular etymology for "nitl", being an abbreviation of "nit jiden toren lernen" - Jews are not allowed to learn or study on this day (Christmas). It is an old Minhag (custom) not to study (the Tora) on this day because of the popular christian belief, Jesus may have rest if the Jews study. Reuven Frankenstein Freiburg 8)---------------------------------------------------- Date: 2 Aug 1995 23:29:26 -0400 From: susan.hauser@quickmail.yale.edu Subject: Personal notices Ikh meyn az s'iz zeyr a sheyne zakh hobn di meglikhkeyt shikn perzenlikhe notitzn tzu undzer khevre. A dank. Susan Hauser New Haven, CT ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 5.074