Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 5.226 January 21, 1996 1) Judeo-Alsatian and Alsatian-Yiddish (Ellen Prince) 2) Judeo-Alsatian and Alsatian-Yiddish (Maureen Tighe-Brown) 3) Judeo-Alsatian and Alsatian-Yiddish (Zachary Baker) 4) Skatine/skotine (Louis Fridhandler) 5) Skatine/skotine (Carl Goldberg) 6) Skatine/skotine (Meyer-Leyb Wolf) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 15:26:03 EST From: ellen@central.cis.upenn.edu Subject: alsatian yiddish vs. judeo-alsatian to dan leeson: i hope rick or others more knowledgeable than i will respond, but let me point out one simple relevant fact. what we typically think of a 'yiddish' is more specifically *eastern* yiddish. there's also *western* yiddish, the yiddish evolved from the yiddish of those original old-yiddish speakers who never moved east. they remain (in tiny numbers, to be sure) in belgium, switzerland, maybe a few other places, and in *alsace*. and the particular variety of western yiddish spoken in alsace would be *alsatian yiddish*, just as the particular variety of eastern yiddish spoken in poland would be *polish yiddish*. now, re 'judeo-alsatian', i'm not familiar with it, but the usual practice is to call the jewish dialect of x language 'judeo-x'. for example, judeo-marathi would be the dialect of marathi that the jews of bombay would speak. therefore, i infer that 'judeo-alsatian' is the dialect of alsatian (which is a germanic language/dialect totally distinct from yiddish) that (some) alsatian jews speak, perhaps in addition to speaking alsatian yiddish. hope this helps. ellen prince 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: 19 Jan 96 23:51:17 EST From: 71431.1612@compuserve.com Subject: Alsatian Yiddish/Judeo-Alsatian How about checking with Yale Professor of History Paula Hyman? Her social history of Alsatian Jewry between 1770s and late 19th century uses many materials in Yiddish or a Yiddish dialect.. The other dominant historian of Alsatian Jewry is Vicki Caron, but unfortunately I do not know where she works now. Maureen Tighe-Brown 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 19 Jan 96 19:26:30 PST From: bm.yib@rlg.stanford.edu Subject: Alsatian Yiddish/Judeo-Alsatian "Yiddish Manuscripts in the British Library," by Leonard Prager and Brad Sabin Hill, contains an interesting aside -- and a very helpful bibliographical footnote on Alsatian Yiddish vs. Judeo-Alsatian. The brief textual comment will be followed by the footnote. .. MS. 12333 (Gaster no. 1223) contains a pot-pourri of materials from the early eighteenth to the mid-nineteenth centuries, mainly documents and letters from the Jewish community of Haguenau in Alsace... This community takes on a certain importance in the Gaster Collection owing to another manuscript, Or. MS 10755 (Gaster no. 1200)... with autograph reports of a delegate from Haguenau to the Sanhedrin in Paris. The Yiddish dialect of Alsace, sometimes referred to as Judaeo-Alsatian, has been the subject of considerable linguistic and even literary attention for over a century. These two Gaster manuscripts must be added to the bibliography of documentation on this longest-surviving dialect of Western Yiddish. (pp. 90-91) [Footnote no. 57:] For the literature on Alsatian Yiddish, see B. Blumenkranz and M. Levy, Bibliographie des Juifs en France (Toulouse, 1974), pp. 255-6 (under 'Yiddish'); Astrid Starck, 'Bibliographie du yidich alsacien', in her Le Yiddisch occidental (Aarau, 1994), pp. 173-84; and the summary bibliography appended to Les Cahiers du CREDYO [Centre de Recherche d'etudes et de documentation du yidich occidental], no. 1 (Mulhouse, 1995), pp. 101-3. See also the dissertation by Johannes Brosi, 'Southwestern Yiddish: A Study in Dialectology, Folklore and Literature', M. Litt. thesis, University of Oxford, 1990, and his 'Bamerkungen tsu dorem-mayrev yidish [Comments on Southwestern Yiddish]', in Oksforder yidish [Oxford Yiddish: Studies in Yiddish Language, Literature and Folklore], iii (Oxford, 1995), cols. 369-88 (with bibliographies). (p. 106) Zachary Baker 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 18:47:06 -0500 From: lfridhan@aol.com Subject: Meaning of skatine or rather skotina For Steve Jacobson, I think you'd have better luck looking for skotina, not skatine in a Russian-English dictionary. Skotina (naturally in the Cyrillic alphabet), a feminine noun, is defined in my puny Russian-English dictionary as cattle, brute, dolt, boor. Skot is masculine and also means cattle, livestock, but no elaboration into pejorative attributes of a person. But that's only my dictionary. BTW in what Sholem Aleichem story did you find it? I vaguely recall the word, but I can't place it. Louis Fridhandler 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 20 Jan 1996 12:14:57 EST from: bbnk42a@prodigy.com Subject: The meaning of "skatine" Steve Jacobson asked for the meaning of "skatine". I don't know the context in Sholem Aleichem's story to which he is referring, but the word is most probably from the Russian word "skotina" ( pronounced "skatinuh" ) which means "cattle, livestock; (fig) swine, beast." "Beheyme", I suppose. Does that work? Carl Goldberg P.S. Thank you, Steve, for your dictionary of Hebraisms in Yiddish. It is a tremendous help for an amorets like me who does not know Hebrew. 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 03:39:09 -0500 From: wolfim@chelsea.ios.com Subject: skatine 'skatine' is found in the Oytser, but it's spelled 'skotine'. The word is related to the more familiar 'skot' meaning cattle. Presumably the stress on the second syllable reduces o > a. 'skatine' also means cattle, but also (singular & plural) brute, beast, dumb ox. Meyer-Leyb Wolf ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 5.226 Mendele has 2 rules: 1. Provide a meaningful Subject: line 2. Sign your article (full name please) Send articles to: mendele@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu Send change-of-status messages to: listserv@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu a. For a temporary stop: set mendele nomail b. To resume delivery: set mendele mail c. To subscribe: sub mendele first_name last_name d. To unsubscribe kholile: unsub mendele Other business: nmiller@mail.trincoll.edu ****Getting back issues**** 1. Anonymous ftp archives are available. ftp ftp.mendele.trincoll.edu in the directory pub/mendele/files A table of contents is also available, along with weekly updates. 2. 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