Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 5.255 February 14, 1996 1) Can "ober" mean "or"? (Alan R. King) 2) Yiddish influence on Hebrew (Soreh Benor) 3) Englishisms in Yiddish (Bernard Katz) 4) The Yiddish canon (Leybl Botvinik) 5) The Yiddish canon (Yankev Lewis) 6) Standard hasidic Yiddish (Yankev Lewis) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 23:36:29 GMT From: mccay@jet.es Subject: Can "ober" mean "or"? I have a little question that someone out there might be able to help me with. It is with regard to a query that has been made on the Linguist list, which provoked in me the recollection of a little puzzle that I have never solved, and I am asking out of curiosity. I am aware that what I am about to tell may be nothing more than an instance of confusion by semi-speakers, but then again... Who knows?! I won't quote the question in its entirety here because I don't think the moderator likes it, according to a comment Ellen Prince made, but the gist is this: Are there any languages where the same word is used to translate both "but" and "or"? I now append what I responded to this person: I just may have a little something in answer to your question. I am a native English speaker but my parents were, let's say, semi-speakers of Yiddish, and I knew just a bit of Yiddish. Once I asked my parents, "How do you say "or" in Yiddish?" and they answered, without any hesitation, "ober". Now "ober" normally means "but" in Yiddish (and so it did for my parents too), and so I pointed this fact out to them, to which they just shrugged their shoulders. I have never come across any other reference anywhere to the use of "ober" for "or" in Yiddish; the standard words are "oder" and "tsi". And I'm no Yiddish expert, so I cannot illuminate you, or myself, further on this strange story, but if I do find out anything new I'll let you know! Alan R. King Gipuzkoa, Basque Country 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 18:59:16 -0500 (EST) From: seb28@columbia.edu Subject: Yiddish influence on Hebrew I am researching the influence of Yiddish (and other languages) on Modern Israeli Hebrew. Can anyone recommend sources relating to this subject (besides Paul Wexler's "The schizoid nature of modern Hebrew...")? Also, does anyone know of a translation (into English or any other language) of Fishl Bimko's short story "Shrek"? Thank you, Soreh Benor New York 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 20:34:43 -0500 (EST) From: bkatz@uoguelph.ca Subject: Englishisms in Yiddish Zellig Bach tries to make a havdil between desirable and undesirable English incursions into Yiddish. I like his example of glaykh and gefeld, just as I cringe when I hear such things as the classic: farmakht der vinde. Where does YIVO stand in this matter? Bernard Katz Guelph, Ontario 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 09:38:28 +0200 (IST) From: leybl@telecomm.tadiran.co.il Subject: Kanon fun yiddish, loyt temes ikh volt forgeleygt, az der 'kanon' volt men badarft ibershraybn loyt temes oder shrayberishe felder. lemoshl: proze, poezye, kritik, drame, humor, lid, eseistik/zhurnalistik, visnshaft, geshikhte, lingvistik, muzik, religye, filosofye (un nokh...?), --- voltn mir demolt oykh gezen vos felt. ikh vel do nit oysrekehen ale mayne gedanken, ober ... es feln take froyen in der reshime,vi rokhl korn, rokhl boymval, kadye molodovski, sore-bas-toyvim. es feln undsere folks-trubadorn vi gebirtig un varshavsky; es feln vikhtike poetn vi mani leyb, shimen frug, avrom reyzn, leyb naydus, un nokh a sakh, arayngerekhnt di poetn fun der arbeter bavegung roznfeld, edlshtat un andere. es feln humor-satirker vi moyshe nadir un yoysef tunkl (der tunkeler); ikh volt tsu dem 'kanon' fun vikhtike verk tsugeshtelt arumnemendike zamlungen vi di mlotek's "perl fun der yidisher poezye", un di "musterverk fun der yidisher literatur". un vos take mitn vort-kunst: hertz grosbard, tsi di humor fun dzigan un shumakher; mir darfn oykh tsugebn di vikhtikste zingers, oystaytsher fun yidishn lid. ... un teater-/film-kunst fun groyse yidishe aktyorn, un di klasishe filmen. di reshime vos es hot tsugeshtelt meyer wolf iz zeyer a gute, ober es iz geshafn gevorn far a spetsifishn tsvek: mekoyres far dem groysn verterbukh. undser 'kanon' darf arumnemen di shprakh un di kultur, traditsye, filosofye, folks neshome. mir torn oykh nit fargesn di vikhtike shafungen fun der khurbn literatur (khotsh katsenelsons verk zaynen ye dermont in der reshime, un dakht zikh, nokh eynike), un dikhters vi katsherginsky un hirsh glik. se volt oykh nit geshat ongebn in klamern dem yor fun ven der verk iz tsum ershtn mol dershinen. yidish hot a breytn oytser, un s'iz gut vos aza reshime (der 'kanon') zol ekzistirn. lomir take dos oysbreytern, un kategorizirn loyt di temes. leybl botvinik netanya 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 02:09:01 -0500 From: justin_lewis@stubbs.woodsworth.utoronto.ca Subject: What, no women? Gerekht! Oyb mir shafn a kanon, zoln mir araynkhapn ["seize the opportunity"] un araynshraybn yidishe shrayberins. Akhuts di groyse moderne yidishe shrayberins, vi azoy ken men kenen di alt-yidishe literatur on a kentenish fun di Zikhroynes fun Glikl Haml, oder fun di zise, hartsike tkhines [tfiles far froyen] fun azelkhe shrayberins vi Sore bas Toyvim? (Inem bukh _The Merits of Our Mothers_ gefinen zikh a sakh tkhines oyf yidish un oyf english.) Yankev Lewis 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 02:08:59 -0500 From: justin_lewis@stubbs.woodsworth.utoronto.ca Subject: Standard hasidic Yiddish Ikh hob zikh derfreyt tsu zen mayn landsman Eliyahu Junis briv in Mendele, vayl er veyst a-ponim a sakh vegn khsidish yidish. Un zikher zenen do oykh andere Mendelyaner vos zenen bakant mit der khsidisher velt. Vel ikh fragn a por shayles vos ikh kler shoyn lang vegn zey. 1) Tsi iz do bay hayntike khsidim, vos redn keseyder yidish, epes a klal-yidish, a standard azoy vi in andern krayzn "YIVO-yidish"? Oder banutst yede grupe an ander redenish on keyn shum klal-shprakh? 2) Tsi zenen do oyf der velt tekstbikher oder verterbikher fun ot dem yidish, vos hayntike khsidim redn? Yankev Lewis ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 5.255