Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 6.044 July 29, 1996 1) Horned water chestnuts (Eve Jochnowitz) 2) Groyzam, daytshmerish, Weinreich (Larry Rosenwald) 3) Dos talisl (Harvey Spiro) 4) _tOles_ (Mikhl Herzog) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 22:47:29 -0400 (EDT) From: jochnowe@is.nyu.edu Subject: Horned water chestnuts (trapa natans L.) Esteemed khevre, I wonder if anyone can help me track down references in Yiddish to horned water chestnuts . (Not the same vegetable we commonly call "water chestnuts") I think they may be called orzech wodny in Polish. Other English names are waternut, water caltrop and, you should excuse me, Jesuit's nut. The scientific name is Trapa natans L. According to ethnobotanist Robert Pemberton, these nuts were used in by Jews in Eastern Europe as a cheaper substitute for walnuts in some sweets. I would be very interested to learn any Yiddish names and Jewish uses for this nut. Many thanks, Eve Jochnowitz 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 15:01:52 -0500 (EST) From: lrosenwald@wellesley.edu Subject: Groyzam, daytshmerish, Weinreich I have a particular and a general question. I happened on Tishebov to be reading Yehoash's Yiddish translation of Lamentations, and came across the word "groyzam." I thought, this must be related to German "grausam," cruel etc., but thought I should look it up just to make sure. Weinreich gives the word, but doesn't define it, marks it with the symbol that means "inacceptable in the standard language," and refers the reader to entries on other words, e.g., akhzoryesdik. Well, okay, I thought - it's just one incidence, and in the very special context of a Yiddish Bible translation. But then, a day or so afterwards, I was reading Ruven Ayzland's essay about Anna Margolin, and I came across the word again, used in a secular context ( Ayzland is saying that Margolin felt in some of her troubles that she was being punished "far dem, vos zi hot in ire yung-meydlshe yorn azoy groyzam zikh geshpilt mit [a friend named] Avrashn"). So then I began to wonder what was going on. The particular question I have is, is there something about the word "groyzam" that makes it get used by a good writer - in my judgment, at any rate - in this way, despite Weinreich's classification? And the general question is, what do people feel about Weinreich's judgments of the admissibility and inadmissibility of words into "the standard language," especially words like this that presumably are held unacceptable because they seem daytshmerish? When I read Ayzland, I feel that I'm reading a writer whose diction is _in general_ more daytshmerish than Weinreich's dictionary sanctions. But surely our sense of what belongs in the language should be determined by the actual usage of good writers who use it, no? A sheynem dank, Larry Rosenwald 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 11:12:24 -0400 From: hjs@nrc.gov Subject: Dos talisl Bernard Katz asked about lyrics to a song identified by Nina Warnke as "Dos Talisl." Until someone can provide more complete details, here's what I know. I've got an LP (vintage late 1950s - early 1960s?) called "Songs my mother sang to me" by the Malavsky Family Choir, issued under Tikva Records (record T-2?). The version is short and lachrymose -- not surprisingly, given the theme -- and includes a spoken monologue presumably written by the Malavskys. The LP credits the song to one "H. Wohl." I believe I've seen a longer version in sheet music somewhere, but I don't own it. It may be melodramatic, but I like the rendition. Here are the lyrics I can make out: Dos talisl is dokh di eyntsike treyst Far di yid in zayn freyd in zayn leyd (?). Fun zayn geburtstog biz in keyver, geyt es mit im mit. Zayn leybn vert geyogt, ?? trogt, Ales vos er farmogt Nemt men tsi fun im. Ales, ales nor dem talis nemt men mit. Harvey Spiro Vienna, Virginia 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 28 Jul 96 22:21 EDT From: zogur@cuvmb.columbia.edu Subject: _tOles_ Bob Rothstein asks [6.041] "whence _toles_?" Certainly _not_ from Pinsk! In such cases, it's best to turn to "habokher hazetser" who may have taken it upon himself to "improve" on the text. (Not an unusual occurrence in the world of Yiddish letters. Perhaps he was from Podolye? There are other indication in the text that a non-Pinsker got into the act: the rhyme _reyn_ and _geven_, for example. Only a Southerner would do that. Perhaps the same is true of the non-rhyming hypercorrection _gloybikayt--eybikayt_. The correct form would be _gleybikay-eybikayt_. Mikhl Herzog ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 6.044