Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 6.133 December 11, 1996 1) Introduction (Jeff Neiman) 2) Minim un nusakh litvak (Sylvia Schildt) 3) Tautologies, pleonastic expressions (Mikhl Herzog) 4) Tautologies (Les Train) 5) Tautologies (Mikhl Herzog) 6) Young readers of Peretz (Morrie Feller) 7) A kleyn yidish lidl (Harold Boll) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 01:06:32 -0500 From: neimanj@pathcom.com Subject: Introduction My parents are Holocaust survivors from Poland, whose Yiddish, while good, could not match the level of the language that I have noticed among participants. As the child of Yiddish-speaking immigrants who grew up in an English-speaking environment (Toronto), even though I went to the local Peretz school, I could not hope to speak Yiddish as well as those other subscribers to your list. It warms my heart to see that mameloshn has not died (as I expected that it would, with the death of the last generations of East-European Jews), but that it has undergone a kind of renaissance and is flourishing, at least on the Internet. I am particularly happy to have found the Mendele list. From the contributions to it, I have learned a number of Yiddish words that I would have otherwise never known, so, on a personal level too, I have found Mendele very enriching. Words that I have recently learned, that I never heard my parents use: beletristik (fiction); tantyemes (royalties); nishtoymemdik (astounding); umgelumpert (awkward); ubifrat (especially). Of course I have my Weinreich dictionary to help me too. Just to give you some background: I am 38 years old...live in Toronto Canada...am a lawyer..married...two children...love literature and classical music..speak many languages (Yiddish, included, ober nisht azoy gut) and am, as I said, the child of Holocaust survivors (Lodzer Yiden). Es iz oykh a hartsderkhapenish tsu derzen di farshidene mentshn vos hobn zikh farlibt in yidish, afile nisht yidishe... Ikh hof az ikh hob mikh bashtayert mit epes tsu dem mendele-list. Jeff Neiman Toronto [In the name of all mendelistn, the shames welcomes fraynt Neiman. And takes this opportunity to remind new subscribers of an old minheg of ours: they're cordially invited to send us introductions. nm] 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 21:36:04 +0100 From: sylvia schildt Subject: Minim un nusakh litvak Benugeye minim [zeyt 6.131]-- muz men eykh nemen in ombatrakht dem nusakh litvak, vu der "dos" iz kmaat in gantzn nit faran. litvakn, gelernte af yidish (vos zey zogn afile idish, nebekh) mamesh geoynim vi es firt zikh bay undz litvakn, baytn oys di minim gantz fray un freylakh. nokh a zakh. undzer shprakh bayt zikh tomid - dos iz a simen fun a lebedik loshn - un fun a toes vert a minheg, fun a minheg, a nusakh, fun a nusakh, epes a nay gramatik. ikh meyn az mame loshn vet hobn gantz an andern ponim in etlekhe yorhunderter arum. in teyln fun belorusie, hob ikh gehert nokh an interesanter zakh -- a dopl reflexiv (mit a zikh un a zakh). l'moshl: "Ikh hob zikh genumen vashn zakh." A lokalizm, zikher -- ober iz dos a toes??? ober raboysay, mit geherike minim, tzi on geherike minim, mit toesn, on toesn, klingt yidish vi yidish un nit vi daytch oder latayn oder rusish oder hebraish. un nit undzere balibte gdoylim vi vaynraykh, shekhter un dovid katz, un nit undzere balibte mendelyaner vos zitzn vi shoymrim iber undzere blitzpostn, hobn borekh hashem, farkhasmet dem sefer fun yidishn gramatik. un tzum farendikn, hob ikh nokh a bakoshe far undzere shoymrim. mir yidishistn shrayen un betn bay di mendelyaner zey zoln shraybn af yidish. zikher meynen mir a laytishn yidish. ober der iker iz shraybn. fun shraybn lernt men. shraybn, leyenen, zikh tzuhern tzu yidishe shrayber, redner, poetn, zinger - azey geyt men tzu besers. it's better to try to write yiddish, albeit in transliteration, (even if you make errors) than to waste the opportunity mendele gives us. with writing, and reading and listening to the yiddish word in all its variations, your yiddish will improve and pick up that unmistakable ta'am. sylvia schildt baltimore, maryland 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 10 Dec 96 22:14 EST From: zogur@cuvmb.columbia.edu Subject: Tautologies, pleonastic expressions Mechl Asheri lists a number of interesting forms [6.132] which I would rather consider pleonastic than tautologous. In any event, here are several more to add to the collection: Involving Hebrew origin words: bay zey beyneyhem 'among gentiles' undzere oves oveseynu mayn okhi Involving Slavic origin words: baldzares (Polish zaraz 'right away') In Litvish Yiddish only: fisnoge "feet" (Polish noga) fisribe "fish" ((Polish ryba) to disambiguate Litvish Yiddish "fis" Mikhl (Mekhl, even Makhl) Herzog 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Dec 96 05:25 EST From: zogur@cuvmb.columbia.edu Subject: More on tautologies In re Mechl Asheri's "tautologies", the very word that has come up in another context, "bimkem", functions as one in the following expression: "er hot gelozt a bimkem af zayn ort" Gloss: He left a bimkem (=an in place of) i.e. substitute in his place. I'll buy the designation "tautology" although I still prefer "pleonasm" Mikhl Herzog 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 23:46:45 -0500 (EST) From: ltrain@chass.utoronto.ca Subject: Tautologies "a guter seiver-ponim-yofis", which means a kindly, pleasant countenance, is another tautology. I can't remember where I saw it (probably in Yugntruf dzhurnAl). Les Train 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 00:59:02 -1000 From: feller@indirect.com Subject: Young readers of Peretz This is a response to Michael Steinlauf's post on Mendele 6.129. By coincidence, I have just started to read "I.L. Peretz and the Making of Modern Jewish Culture" by Ruth R. Wisse (U. of Washington Press, 1991), and I came across the same comment about young readers of Peretz. The full comment is given in note 27, p.114: Isaac Bashevis Singer writes that in his childhood it was common to see young men and women reading Peretz with a dictionary: ' Often the son would ask his father for an explanation of this or other expression. The father considered Peretz a heretic, but he was pleased that the son had to appeal to him for the explanation of a talmudic saying.' Yizkhak Varshavski (Singer), "A naye oysgabe fun peretzes verk" ("A New Edition of Peretz's Works"), in Forverts, July 5, 1947, p.2. It may be that this book addresses some of Michael's concerns, and therefore would be worth while for him, as well as others, to read. Morrie Feller Phoenix 7)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 17:08:41 -0500 From: boll@ekbos.com Subject: A kleyn yidish lidl Last week during a phone conversation with my elderly parents living in Florida, my father told me how well my mother was doing - she was gaining weight and exercising regularly. At that point I chimed in with an "ot azoy!". At which point my mother responded by singing this delightful little song remembered from her childhood in Gombin, Poland. ot azoy neyt a shnayder ot azoy fardint er gelt er neyt, er neyt a gantse vokh es kumt oyf shabes hot der keshen a lokh This is how a tailor sews, This is how he earns his money he sews, he sews the entire week but when the sabbath comes his pocket has a hole Harold Boll Winchester, Massachusetts ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 6.133