Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 6.138 December 13, 1996 1) Introduction (Sema Chaimovitz Menora) 2) s'katzel kumt (Gilad J. Gevaryahu) 3) Yiddish, not "af daytsh" (Joachim Neugroschel) 4) Yiddish, not "af daytsh" (Ellen Prince) 5) Artsibiografye (Khane-Faygl Turtletaub) 6) Bimkom, b'mukoym (Mechl Asheri) 7) Jet-lag af yidish (Khane-Faygl Turtletaub) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 11:08:19 -0500 From: lights4607@aol.com Subject: Introduction Although I've been on-line with your list a few weeks now, i'm just getting around to introducing myself to your members. I live in Chicago and, while I grew up in an English-speaking environment, used to hear yiddish spoken by my parents to my grandparents and other family members. For twenty years, until my recent retirement, I worked in the Jewish Community Centers senior adult dept., as well as the Kagan(Jewish) Home for the Blind, where I often used Yiddish to communicate with members. I am 57 years old, have 3 married children (2 live in Israel) and 14 eyneklach. I am presently taking Yiddish classes with a marvelous teacher, Khane-Feygle Turtletaub, to improve my grammar and polish up my ability to talk. Keep up your great work! Sema Chaimovitz Menora 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 10:14:57 -0500 From: gevaryahu@aol.com Subject: s'katzel kumt There is Yiddish expression "s'katzel kumt" which comes from "katzel kumt". The 's' is for the definitive article. According to Harkavy's Yiddish dictionary, p.297, s.v. "katzil-kumt" it means: welcome halloo! how do you do? With the following explanation "This interjection is usually addressed to women, and it is supposed that 'katzil' is a contraction of 'God'd will' - an allusion to the fact that in the Morning Benedictions the Jewish women humbley bless their Creator for having made them according to "His will," while the Jewish males proudly thank God for not having made them females". The real Yiddishists at Mendele might shed more light on this question. Gilad J. Gevaryahu [For an earlier discussion see 4.344. nm] 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 12:28:44 -0500 (EST) From: achim1@cris.com Subject: Language comparisons in regard to frayedl cielak's query [6.137] about citing german in discussing elements of yiddish usage--why not? various postings home in on borrowings from and differences with other languages--especially the component tongues of yiddish: german, hebrew, polish, etc. I find it interesting to see how various languages affect one another--and also how they differ from one another in grammar, usage, imagery, idiom, etc. i think it's a shame that people living in spanish-speaking countries dont contribute information on mutual impacts between spanish and yiddish.... benegeye der frage vegn tsitirn daytsh in diskusyes vegn yidish--for vos zhe nisht? farsheydene blitsbrivlekh in mendele kontsentrirn zikh af yidishe antlayen fun andere shprakhn un af khilukim tsvishn zey un yidish--ubefrat di komponenten-shprakhn: daytsh, loshen-koydish, poylish, u.a.v. ikh bin perzenlikh shtark farinteresirt mit dem vi varsheydene shprakhn virkn af anander benegeye gramatik, banuts, bilder, idyomen, fonetik. un 's iz a shod, meyn ikh, az mendelisten vos voynen in shpanish-redndike lender shraybn undz nisht vegn hashpoes tsvishn yidish un shpanish..... zayt gezund oder vi me zogt af daytsh: "tschues" (funem shpanishn vort "adios") p.s. someone might wish to point out the overwhelming and probably unwitting impact of english on the yiddish used in mendele--especially the donnybrook of cases and genders..... Joachim Neugroschel 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 15:33:44 EST From: ellen@central.cis.upenn.edu Subject: Yiddish, not "af daytsh" german is the sister language of yiddish and, since the two diverged within the last millenium, still very similar to it. for those of us interested in the linguistic aspects of yiddish (as opposed to, e.g., cultural, affective, literary), it is of great interest to know where it diverges from german and where the two are similar. hope this helps. ellen prince 5---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 12:31:06 +0100 From: doctorkf@gte.net Subject: Artsibiografye Khotch khaver Neugroschel hot opgegebn a sakh tsayt mir tsu entfern af mayn kashe vegn "artsibiografye" farshtey ikh nokh alt isht vos dos vort meyn. Oyb der prefiks "artsi" meynt af english "arch," dos heyst af yiddish "hoybt" meynt "artsibiografye" a "hoybt biografye"? Darf men fun dem oysdringen az es is faran an veyniker vikhtike biografye? Bet ikh az emetser zol mir dos beser gebn tsu farshteyn. L'moshl, vi volt men dos vort ibergezetst af english? Khane-Faygl Turtletaub 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 20:46:33 +0200 From: donnom@netvision.net.il Subject: Bimkom, b'mukoym When "onshtot" isn't used, I have always (as far as I can remember) have heard bimkem or bimkom and that includes Israel, where I live. But I can cite one exception. The word "b'mukoym, bimkem, bimkom" means "in (the) place of": that one exception was an instance where mamesh a physical place was meant. A Bobover khosid once informed me that "Shabes" is in reality a roshei teyves: "shtraymel b'mukoym t'filin". Of course only half the equation is resolved, but give a khosid a break! As for Tevye's quotation from Pirke Ovoys, if you're reading it from the text that's how you'd have to read it and it doesn't mean "in the place of", as it does in Yiddish, but "In _a_ place" (where there are no men...). S'iz do tsu mayn meynung, kayn shaykhes nit. Mechl Asheri 7)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 12:31:06 +0100 From: doctorkf@gte.net Subject: Jet-lag af yidish Ikh volt oykh gevolt visn vi me zogt "jet lag" af yidish. A hartsikn dant foroys. Khane-Faygl Turtletaub ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 6.138