Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 6.142 December 16, 1996 1) Hebrew Word for Windows (Hugh Denman) 2) Dray flign mit eyn klap (Hugh Denman) 3) "Do" iz nito in "nishto" (Zellig Bach) 4) Olsvanger's umlauts (Joachim Neugroschel) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 19:29:09 +0100 (MET) From: h_denman@maier.vol.at Subject: Hebrew Word for Windows We frequently bemoan the fact that we are restricted to transcription when we wish to write in Yiddish on Mendele. However, I have just made the interesting discovery that if one accesses one's e-mail via Hebrew Word for Windows one can already incorporate the complete Ivrit alphabet (without nekudes). Or, at least, one can, if one uses Eudora as one's e-mail software, as my colleagues and I at UCL do. Theoretically, it is supposed to be possible to add a Yiddish font to Hebrew WinWord, but so far the gremlins have prevented me from achieving this. Meanwhile, Mark David, the moderator of the uyip mailing list, is working away on behalf of the Committee for the Implementation of Standardized Yiddish Orthography with the endorsement of the YIVO Institute to provide for the implementation of the entire range of Yiddish letters and digraphs within the the unicode system which will eventually replace ASCII and solve all our computing problems. But in the meantime, while we wait for the ideal solution, much can be done with Hebrew Winword. I append a specimen text which I will keep brief so as not to try the patience of those of you who don't have this programme: [Tsum bedoyeren, ken undzer kompyutr nisht aroysshik azoyne oysyes. nm] Hugh Denman London 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 21:01:01 +0100 (MET) From: h_denman@maier.vol.at Subject: Dray flign mit eyn klap With reference to the recent queries by Al Grand and Sema Chaimovitz Menora [6,141. 5, 6 & 7]:- One transliterates 'zikh' because the word is (normally) written with a yud, but one often encounters the transcription 'zakh' (or, indeed, the spelling with pasekh (/pasakh) alef) because that is (approximately) how the word is pronounced on account of consistent vowel lowering before the khof/ khes and reysh sounds. A more accurate description of the sound in question is the open central vowel whose IPA representation is an upside-down [a]. Olsvanger uses an umlaut over the o in oy in the 1947 edition of his book (and a circumflex over the e in ey in the 1936 edition) to represent the historical phoneme derived from Hebrew-Aramaic khoylem/ khoylem vov as well as from Middle High German long o and ou (in words such as we would write: oylem, royt and boym respectively). The Ukrainian word for cemetery is indeed 'tsvyntar'. And, incidentally, Joachim Neugroschel [6,140. 3], when listing the Yiddishist's lexicographic panoply, includes a Russian dictionary, which could, indeed, occasionally be helpful, but a Ukrainian dictionary (e.g. Andrusyshen, Toronto U.P.) would be infinitely more useful! And for good measure, why not add Lexer's three-volume "Mittelhochdeutsches Handwoerterbuch" as well? Hugh Denman London 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 20:27:23 -0500 From: zellig@aol.com Subject: "Do" iz nito in "nishto" In my humble opinion Joachim Neugroschel, in his various posts in _Mendele_ appears to parade unnecessarily with polyglotic phrases, some of which in languages quite removed from Yiddish, excepting, of course, the illustrative expressions in German. Similarly, in answering a query in _Mendele_ about the history of Yiddish (6.140,3), he appends to his answer a list of no less than (count them) eight (8) different dictionaries that the querent might consult, IMHO a futile excercize since most Mendelianer, I'm sure, do not have such a rich access to dictiionaries as a professional translator. Herewith two slight general corections in Neugroschel's posts: In a recent post he wrote (6.132,3): When someone thanks you, one would say in Yiddish "nisht do farvos." [That would be the equivalent of "don't mention it" or "thanks for nothing" in English.] This is contrary to the _written_ and _literary_ Yiddish. "_Do_" in Yiddish strictly means "here, place," for instance, "nisht do gedakht" [(this calamity) should not happen _here_]. Yiddish _do_ (in the meaning of here) is not included in "nishto," as it would seem from the poster's example "nisht do farvos." It is totally different from the Yiddish personal pronoun _du_, the familiar form of address (as distinct from the formal _you_, the familiar distinction in Yiddish between dutsn un irtsn). This _du_, contrary to _do_, indeed merges with and is incorporated in certain verb cases and becomes /tu/, examples: darfstu, vilstu, zukhstu. Therefore, "nito" or "nishto" has nothing to do (English verb) with Yiddish _do_ (adverb) . In another post (1.138,3) he wrote: "The component tongues of Yiddish -- German, Hebrew, Polish, etc." This statement, too, is partly misleading. The three main components of Yiddish are: German, Hebrew-Aramaic, and Slavic. Polish is part of the _general_ Slavic component (that includes Belorussian, Ukrainian, Polish, and Russian), and is _not_ a main component by itself, as it would seem from the quoted passage. Zellig Bach Lakehurst, NJ 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 20:55:35 -0500 (EST) From: achim1@cris.com Subject: Olsvanger's umlauts benegeye Al Grands shayle [6.141] vegn dem iberklang (= Umlaut) bay Olsvanger, meyn ikh az der mekhaber fun _Royte (Reyte ?) Pomerantsn_ hot gevolt onvayzn dem litvishn aroysred: klal-yidish "oy" > litvish "ey"--lemoshl: moyshe/meyshe..... voynen/veynen, etc. benegeye zayn frage vegn "zikh/zakh": di klal-ortographye "zikh" is daytshish--nor der klal-aroysred iz mer tsi veniger "zakh"--un in di dialektn hert man andere versyues: lemoshl "zhikh" in bialistok.... Joachim Neugroschel ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 6.142