Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 6.243 February 27, 1997 1) Ende oysiyes (Ellen Prince) 2) Ende oysiyes (Sholem Berger) 3) Ende oysiyes (David Herskovic) 4) Hebrew words in Yiddish (Martin Davis) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 12:47:58 EST From: ellen@central.cis.upenn.edu Subject: Ende oysiyes am i the only one who is finding it hilarious that people seem to think that the spelling reform in the early days of the ussr was ordered from above? does anyone really think that there were non-jews in the kremlin who (a) could read the hebrew alphabet and (b) gave a damn how yiddish words were spelled? or is it so upsetting that the reform came from jews, and from jews who were among the most highly literate in yiddish nokh? (btw, i have a copy of _kind on keyt_, a children's book by moyshe nadir, published in ny in 1936 by the iwo, that follows the fully-reformed orthography and that is a delight, both in form and content.) i for one think the full reform was a fine idea -- in fact, i'd say it needs no explanation whatsoever, no more than the orthographic reform that took place around the same time across much of europe (russia, germany, spain, catalonia...). on the contrary, it's the convention that the *right wing* adopted (and that survives today, at least outside the ex-ussr) that needs explaining -- how religious fanaticism intruding on a purely secular issue results in the failure to achieve the desired logical spelling reform. in case anyone is missing the illogic of the system, try this for an analogy: imagine (predominantly roman catholic) austria spelling all latin borrowings in german as if they were still latin words, regardless of the fact that their sound, conjugation/declension, and meaning were pure german... ellen prince 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 15:12:32 +0000 From: bergez01@mchip00.med.nyu.edu Subject: Ende oysyes Andrej Bredsteins bamerkungen (6.241) benegeye der sovietisher ortografye zaynen vi ale mol sheyn baklert. Ikh hob ober taynes tsu der sovietisher ortografye, poshet derfar, vayl oyb me gevoynt zikh tsu dem iz bemeyle ummeglekh, az me zol zikh dernokhdem vider tsuvoynen tsu an andern oysleyg--un farkert: Eyner vos lernt zikh di standard-ortografye muz shlogn kop in vant kedey tsu dergeyn a tolk in dem sovietishn oysleg. A naye ortografye muz oder zayn in gantsn mastliekh, bazign di konkurentn, oder zayn mer makil kedey droysndike leyeners zoln zikh kenen funanderklaybn in dem. Anisht, vern yidn tseteylt in farsheydene oysleg-makhnes--mir hobn den nisht keyn vikhtikere inyonem? Bikhlal iz ot mayn ikerdike tayne tsu fraynd Bredstein: der oysleg iz nisht keyn reyn-estetisher inyen, nor leheypekh: kol yisroyl yesh lahem kheylekh leoysleg. Vos iz shayekh ortografye, al tifroysh min hatsiber. ******* Andrej Bredstein's thoughts are as always well expressed. I'll never be able to stand the Soviet orthography, though, for the simple reason of its exclusivity: if you already know how to read Loshn-Koydesh, it's a pain to slog one's way through fun-with-Soviet-phonics. If I wanted to crack codes I would have applied to work for the CIA. On the other hand, if one learns the Soviet system one has a really hard time with the spellings used by 85% of the Yiddish-speaking world. There are, it's true, competing systems of Yiddish orthography elsewhere in the world, but they're all mutually understandable, more or less. Soviet spelling would work if everyone were to use it, but otherwise it's a spanner in the works; spelling is not a matter of individual choice, pace Mr. Bredstein, but a matter of utilitarianism--is the spelling you're using good for everyone? Sholem Berger New York 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: 26 Feb 97 16:48:29 EST From: 100114.750@compuserve.com Subject: Soviet Yiddish books The Bergelson I recently mentioned [6.238-40] was published in Moscow, 1961 by the melikhe farlag fin kinstlerisher literatur. There was also a book of works by Sholem Aleichem (spelled vi noyekh mit finef* grazen) in the same orthography, published in Moscow in 1936. Another book, was an illustrated 'Masoes Binyomin' by Mendele, again in the Russian spelling system, published in Moscow in the 60's. I am almost sure that I saw a Soviet edition of a Russian work but in the regular spelling. All this leaves one wondering of the involvement of Yiddishists in the persecution of their own brethren when implementing these obscure rules. David Herskovic *nikhtev betsidoy: Pedantic mendelistn, of whom there are, fortunately, not one too many, ready to fire off an epistle complaining that the phrase should be 'noyekh mit zibn grazn', zoln moykhl zan in osvartn a minit. Two of the zibn grazn for noyekh are: Substituting the fist nin with an ende nin and placing a regular khof to replace the erroneous last khof. Ober az men hot avekgenimn ale ende oysiyes zenen farshvindn gevorn tsvay grazn. Tu, is ayner a baln optsivendn deym pshetl? David Herskovic 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 15:07:52 -0800 From: martind@cs.berkeley.edu Subject: Spelling of Hebrew words in Yiddish Regarding this discussion I would only like to mention that I have found the spelling of Hebrew words, with vowels omitted, a real obstacle in my halting efforts to read Yiddish. Martin Davis ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 6.243