Subject: FACT:SCIENCE IS SCIENCE

From: [email-masked] (Romel Cordeiro)
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 11:13:28 -1000

Hi, Chris.

We disagree with the suggestion that for Medicine to be Scientific, there is
a need to build an explanation in the Western Scientific Tradition.  We, in
fact have no doubt that there is major Science involved in the practice of
Acupuncture--taking into consideration the repeated positive
results in clinical practice for thousands of years.  There are major
collections of clinical data written in those thousands of years proving the
repeated successful results
for many disorders leading us to the belief of the Scientific Level of
Acupuncture in Medicine.  

We believe that in the body, there is a very Intelligent Organized System;
and within this System there is many other systems that work in harmony.
Based on this idea, we understand that a relationship exists between
physiology, neurology, biochemistry, immunology, psycology, etc. . .
including the energetic system of meridians (QI).  If you agree with me that
the body works in a complex organized manner, then you will have to see that
the energetic system of acupuncture has a deep relationship with all those
systems that I mentioned above.  

The fact is; neurology, physiology, psychology, and others are not Western,
they are just SCIENCE.  SCIENCE IS SCIENCE, not Western or Eastern.  All
these Sciences have a relationship to each other and the purpose in our
group is to bring the neurophysiological aspect of this relation in
Acupuncture.  What about the subjects " NEUROCHEMICAL BASIS OF ACUPUNCTURE
IN ANALGESIA","NEUROPHYSIOLOGICAL MECHANISM INVOLVED IN PAIN RELIEVING
EFFECTS BY ACUPUNCTURE".  These subjects have been investigated for many
years in medicine, and the outcome is that when acupuncture stimulation is
applied to a specific disorder, there is a release  production of
neurochemicals, neurological attenuations in sensory process for the control
of pain; there are physiological changes on vicero somatic discharges, etc. . . 
This clearly shows the relationship between acupuncture stimulation and the
natural reaction imput from the other systems.

The question is: Do we want to see these relationships; or do we just want
to accept tonsillitis as a deficiency/excess heat syndrome and forgeting the
bacteriological aspect to this pathological picture? Thanks for the support.

Nimai

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From: [email-masked] (Z'ev Rosenberg)
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 14:13:45 -0800

>bacteriological aspect to this pathological picture? Thanks for the support.

Dear Nimai,
   Since everything is interrelated, certainly it is "permissable" to
discuss acupuncture in terms of neurology, physiology, etc.  However, these
discussions are still speculative, especially in light of the fact that
neuroscience is still an evolving field, by no means complete in explaining
even straight-forward physiological phenomena.  The Chinese model includes
some of what we would call science, but the paradigm in which this science
occurs differs greatly from biomedical sciences (because of the biomedical
paradigm).
  As I have mentioned in early posts to this forum, I feel that Chinese
medicine and modern Western science will meet in the realm of
complexity,uncertaintly, chaos and systems theory, which still are not a
great influence in the world of biomedicine.

Z'ev Rosenberg, L. Ac., D.O.M.

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From: [email-masked] (Pankaj Seth)
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 1995 13:51:34 +0500

>Z'ev Rosenberg, L. Ac., D.O.M.  
 
Dear Z'ev 
 
I think you are correct.  We are at the point where this type of work is
beginning.  Many people have begun to think in this way.  The first steps
will likely be a little clumsy, but that is to be expected.  I find the
uncertainty concept, as expressed by Prigogine to be especially important. 
The breakthroughs will come from those who are well versed in both the
traditional and current theories and concepts and it would certainly be a
big plus if such individuals were involved in some form of personal
discipline vis a vis Taoist Yoga, Qi gong, martial arts. 
 
Pankaj Seth, N.D.