Subject: Herbs for a maintaining a healthy liver?

From: [email-masked] (Brian Kraiss)
Date: 31 Dec 1994 04:40:02 GMT

Hello all,

I would like like to know what herbs there are out there for keeping your 
liver clean & healthy?  Specifically any herbs or treatments which can
help prevent a person from developing Cirrhosis of the liver.

I've heard Dandelion greens or roots are good for this.

Any information you can provide me would be greatly appreciated!

Please send me email!
Thanks!

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From: [email-masked] (Camilla Cracchiolo)
Date: 31 Dec 1994 08:20:59 GMT

Brian Kraiss ([email-masked]) wrote:
: Hello all,

: I would like like to know what herbs there are out there for keeping your 
: liver clean & healthy?  Specifically any herbs or treatments which can
: help prevent a person from developing Cirrhosis of the liver.

: I've heard Dandelion greens or roots are good for this.

: Any information you can provide me would be greatly appreciated!

My first question is why are you worried about developing cirrhosis of
the liver?  If you are drinking or are routinely exposed to a hepato-
toxic chemical, the thing is to *stop*.  

However, there's a lot of evidence that silymarin is beneficial.  It's
not clear if it helps in chronic viral hepatitis, and it's not a cure
all, but strong protective effects have been shown in animals against
hepatotoxic chemicals.  It also lowered the death rate by about 1/3 in
a well conducted but small human study of folks with cirrhosis from 
variable causes, with the strongest effect being shown in alcoholic
cirrhosis.

Forget dandilion.  there's no reason I'm aware of to believe it does
much more than work as a laxative.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
           Camilla Cracchiolo, RN   [email-masked]

        Shrine of the Cybernetic Madonna BBS  213-766-1356
        "The Board that Hates Rush Limbaugh With A Passion"
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From: [email-masked] (David Powner)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 10:12:58 +0000

> much more than work as a laxative.
I'm no expert, but a look through all of my herbal manuals rates 
dandelion very highly in relation to liver disorders - remedies chronic
liver congestion, swelling of the liver, hepatitis, jaundice, deficient
bile secretion etc.....

With reference to the original part of the question, Licorice Root is used
in China for treatment of Liver disorders, and in one study at Shanxi medical
college was found to prevent the development of "experimental" cirrhosis.
Read into "experimental" what you will - artifically induced?

I merely quote what I read - in this case from a book "The Scientific
Validation of Herbal Medicine" by Daniel B. Mowrey Ph.D., Keats Publishing,
Connecticut, ISBN 0-87983-534-6,  $14.95

David Powner                   Internet: [email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (Camilla Cracchiolo)
Date: 2 Jan 1995 20:31:51 GMT

David Powner ([email-masked]) wrote:
: In article <[email-masked]>
:            [email-masked] "Camilla Cracchiolo" writes:
: > 
: > Forget dandilion.  there's no reason I'm aware of to believe it does
: > much more than work as a laxative.
: > 
: I'm no expert, but a look through all of my herbal manuals rates 
: dandelion very highly in relation to liver disorders - remedies chronic
: liver congestion, swelling of the liver, hepatitis, jaundice, deficient
: bile secretion etc.....

I'm relying on Varro Tyler.

: With reference to the original part of the question, Licorice Root is used
: in China for treatment of Liver disorders, and in one study at Shanxi medical
: college was found to prevent the development of "experimental" cirrhosis.
: Read into "experimental" what you will - artifically induced?

I'm interested in the licorice root experiment.  Do you have a more detailed
reference on this?  However, the dangers of licorice root are well known,
and it absolutely should not be used except under supervision.  Attached
at the end is info on licorice root.  My question about the experiment
(which sounds like it might have been done by giving animals the herb
and then exposing them to a hepatotoxic substance): what was the dose
and the length of time it was given for?

Ok, here is what Varro Tyler has to say:

"Licorice consists of the underground parts, technically the rhizone and 
roots of varieties of Glycyrrhiza glabra L....which possess a sweet yellow
wood.  It is often called licorice root or glycyrrhiza.  The root has been
used since very ancient times as a flavoring and for its expectorant and
demulcent properties in the treatment of coughs and colds.(1)

A very confusing situation exists concerning much so-called licorice
candy.  A great deal of it contains little or no licorice whatsoever,
but derives its flavor from anise oil.  The taste of licorice and
anise do resemble one another, but in other respects, including potential
toxicity, they are quite different.  It is unfortunate the more common,
harmless anise flavor is almost always referred to as licorice.

[deleted stuff]

Much of the sweetness of licorice is due to glycyrrhizin, also known
as glycyrrhizic acid, a saponin glycoside which occurs in the root
in concentrations averaging between 5 and 9%.  It is about 50 times
sweeter than sugar and is available commercially in a form known as
ammoniated glycyrrhizin.

During World War II, a Dutch physician noted that adminstration of
licorice extract produced marked improvement in patients suffering from
peptic ulcer, but serious side effects in the form of swelling of the
face and limbs were also observed.(2)  Since then, numerous reports of toxic 
effects have been recorded in the medical literature based on the 
observation of patients who ate large amounts of livorice candy over long 
periods of time.  One man who had eaten two or three 36-gram licorice 
candy bars daily for six to seven years became so weak he could not get 
out of bed.  He required hospitalization with intensive treatment for 
more than one month before recovering.(3)  Another person, previously in 
excellent health, ate 700 grams (about 1.5 pounds) of licorice candy in a 
nine-day period.  HIs condition necessitated four days of hospital 
treatment(4).  In a controlled experiment, about 100 to 200 grans of 
licorice twists, (equivalent to 0.7 to 1.4 grans of glycyrrhizin) eaten 
daily for periods of one to four weeks produced serious symptoms in a 
group of volunteers. (5)

Another interesting case involved an elderly man who chewed eight to 
twelve 3-ounce bags of chewing tobacco daily and swallowed the saliva 
produced.  He became so weak that he was unable to sit up or raise his 
arms above the horizontal position.  There was a prompt improvement when 
he was hospitalized and denied chewing tobacco.  Tests revealed that the 
brand he had been consuming contained more than 8% of licorice paste and 
that his usage amounted to between 0.88 and 1.33 grams of glycryyhizin 
per day, well within the toxic range.(6)

The medical literature refers to this condition as pseudoaldosteronism, 
meaning one similar to that brought about by excessive secretion of the 
adrenal cortex hormone, aldosterone.  In the case of licorice, the 
syndrome is caused by glycyrrhizin, the structure and physiological 
effects of which are related to aldosterone or desoxycorticosterone.  
Symptoms resulting from excessive quantities include headache, lethargy, 
sodium and water retention, excessive excretion of potassium, high blood 
pressure and even heart failure or cardiac arrest. (7)

One popular herbal cough remedy contains 1 ounce of licorice root in a 
quart of water.  Directions suggest that one-half pint be drunk at 
bedtime with additional quantities as needed. (8).  The half-pint dose 
could easily contain 0.5 gram of glycyrrhizin, and that daily amount 
might be doubled or tripled, depending on the fequency of use.  At that 
rate of consumption, toxic effects could observed after a single week.  
For persons suffering from high blood pressure or heart trouble, these 
could be serious.

Although licorice does have a flavor pleasing to many and may also have 
some utility in treating coughs as well as a number of other conditions, 
(9), it must be remembered that it is also a potent drug.  Large doses 
over extended periods of time are quite toxic. (10)"

References:

1.  V..E. Tyler, L.R. brady, and J.E. Roberrs: Pharmacognosy, 9th Ed. Lea 
    & Febiger, Philadelphia, 1988, pp 68-69

2.  C. Nieman: Chemist and Druggist 177: 741-745; 1962

3.  J.W. Conn, D.R. Rovner; and E.L. Cohen: Journal of the American 
    Medical Assn 205: 492-496, 1968

4.  T. J. Chamberlain: ibid 213: 1343, 1970

5.  M.T. Epstein, E.A. Espiner, R.A.Donald, and H.Hughes: British Medical 
    Journal 1: 488-490, 1977

6.  J.D.Blachley and J..P. Knochel: New England Journal of Medicine 
    302:784-785, 1980

7.  Anon: Medical Letter on Drugs and Theraputics 21(7); 30 1979

8.  R.C. Wren and R.W. Wren: Potter's New Cyclopaedia of Botanical Drugs 
    and Preparations, New Ed, Health Science Press, Hengiscote, England, 1975

9.  R.F Chandler: Canadian Pharmaceutical Journal 118: 420-424, 1985

10.  Lawrence Review of Natural Products, June, 1989.

------------------------------------------------------------------
I strongly recommend _The Honest Herbal_ by Varro Tyler to anyone
who is considering or using herbal medicines.  It is the one herb
book that I have every found that relies solely on scientific studies
instead of folklore *and* which provides references.  Tyler himself
has impressive credentials, being a tenured professor of pharmacognosy
(the branch of pharmacy that deals with herbal medicine) in the
school of pharmacy at Purdue University.  The ISBN # is 1-56024-287-6
and it is published by the Haworth Press, 10 Alice Street, Binghamton
NY 13904-1580.  It is in print, costs about $20 and I got mine through
a regular bookstore which special ordered it for me.

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From: [email-masked] (Conrad Richter)
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 95 16:26:31 EST

[email-masked] (Camilla Cracchiolo) writes:

  [article about licorice citing Varro Tyler's book _The Honest 
  Herbal_; Camilla argues that licorice should not be used]

I have some problems with this posting from Camilla Cracchiolo.  In this 
and other postings she has relied heavily on Varro Tyler's work.  I respect 
Dr Tyler and his work, and I agree with Camilla that he has compiled some 
valuable information (indeed I have his books in my library and they get 
used).  But, I think it is necessary to consider a few points that perhaps 
give his work a little perspective.  

Tyler's method is to rely resolutely on the scientific and medical 
literatures only.  Camilla lauds him for this.  I happen to have 
University-level training in medical research, so I know the value and 
importance of these literatures.  But, at risk of seeming something of a 
Luddite, I think it is important to point out the these bodies of knowledge 
are not without their flaws, and because of these flaws (which I will 
outline below) I am inclined to give a certain amount of weight to 
folkloric and traditional herbal knowledge, in balance to the scientific 
and medical.   

Here is a principle that seems, to me, to be relevant:  it is easier to 
find the medical exceptions than the rules.  This is a basic consequence 
of the logic on which the scientific and medical research models are based.  
It is the thrust of much of the considerations of regulatory bodies like 
the FDA and Health and Welfare Canada.

Some of medical literature to which Tyler refers in his chapter on 
licorice is, in fact, largely anecdotal in nature, not controlled.  They 
are individual cases that are intended to contribute to an understanding 
of licorice.  Take for example the case of the elderly man who chewed 
tobacco:

> produced.  

This seems to be quite a lot of tobacco.  Not having seen the paper it 
is difficult to judge how nicotine and other toxic components of tobacco 
were factored out.  But the important thing here is that this is not a 
controlled study.  It provides circumstantial evidence that appears to me 
to be rather weak.  

Then consider two other cases Tyler cites:

> One man who had eaten two or three 36-gram licorice 
> out of bed.  

> Another person, previously in 
> nine-day period.  

but Tyler says at the outset that: 

> but derives its flavor from anise oil.  

How does one interpret the above cases if the presence of licorice in 
licorice candy is in doubt?  Again, not having seen the papers in question, 
I cannot judge them fairly.  But even if it could be established that 
licorice was present, these are essentially anecdotal cases, and as such  
are subject to all the dangers of interpretation that are ascribed to 
the folkloric literature.  Excessive sugar intake, allergies, and unknown 
other ingredients in the manufacture of the licorice candy have to be 
ruled out as possible contributing factors -- difficult to do in 
retrospect.

I am not suggesting that it is wrong to cite such cases -- they contribute 
to a profile of licorice -- and if licorice usage were relatively rare, 
then there is immediate cause for worry.  But these sorts of studies don't 
address the numbers of cases where people consumed licorice candy (with 
real licorice in it) and no apparent side-effects were experienced.  
Consider that licorice is a very common ingredient in Chinese herbal 
patent medicines [1], remedies that have been used by millions over 
thousands of years.  Now, no one can say that that fact alone proves 
the safety of the drug, but one certainly would want to look again 
before declaring licorice as dangerous and therefore unfit for use.  

In other words, what are the real risks -- numbers of cases involving 
side-effects vs. the total numbers of cases in which licorice was 
used?  This calculation is impossible to make with any accuracy, but the 
possibility that the risks might in fact be relatively low is a point 
that should be considered and evaluated by competent research that 
specifically addresses this point.  Contrary to what readers might think, 
Tyler did not address this point at all in his book. 

Further, even if it has been established that glycyrrhizin causes 
pseudoaldersteronism and thus causes "headache, lethargy, sodium and 
water retention, excessive excretion of potassium, high blood pressure 
and even heart failure or cardiac arrest," one wonders just how 
relevant are these effects in real-life situations where the drug is 
being used under prescribed regimes.  After all, anything can be misused. 

I am the first to concede that herbs such as licorice have marked 
effects on the body, after all, they would be useless if they didn't. 
There are right ways and wrong ways to use herbal drugs.  But before 
condemning them solely on the strength of what may be exceptions 
to the rule, let's try to look at the rule also. 

I should point out before closing that I have a vested interest in
this matter.  I am Vice-President of Richters, a company that markets 
herb plants, seeds and dried herbs.  And yes, we do sell licorice in 
all of the above forms.  

Conrad Richter

Note 

[1]  A cursory look through one compilation of 163 Chinese patent 
     herbal remedy formulae, I found only 51 that do not contain 
     licorice.

RICHTERS HERBS                     | Info:                 [email-masked]
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From: [email-masked] (Hilda Marshall)
Date: 3 Jan 1995 01:28:44 GMT

[email-masked] (Conrad Richter) writes:

(a long and well-organized posting, regarding licorice and the
difference between anecdotal evidence and randomized controlled
trials)

Well said!  I also wonder how many of the anecdotal cases, i.e.
the poster who said here that chamomile gives her migraines, are
the result of allergic reactions.

Love, Hilda

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From: [email-masked] (Maclir8451)
Date: 13 Jan 1995 12:54:47 -0500

I have read that a herb named silymarin is supposed to be quite excellent
for the uses that you have in mind. However I have not be able to uncover
any information during research of the herb. I do admit that I haven't
tried very hard but do keep a constant eye open for info or references. 
If any one with the more "extensive" research resources has any material
on this herb, any info shared would be greatly appreciated.

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 03:45:53 -0800

> on this herb, any info shared would be greatly appreciated.

I suggest you check out Daniel Mowrey's books on scientific
herbalism...sorry the title escapes me right now.