Subject: Re: Another Flax Seed Question

From: [email-masked] (Mark Thorson)
Date: Sun, 25 Dec 1994 04:26:52 GMT

Of all food animals, the pig is most similar to a human.
Like humans it is by nature an omnivore, unlike cattle,
goats, and sheep which are herbivores.  The USDA publication
_Atlas_of_Meat_Inspection_Pathology_ (USDA, 1972) is a
guide for meat inspectors, not human nutrition.  But here
are some interesting comments on the effects of flaxseed
oil consumption on pigs, quoting from pages 165-167:

"Steatitis ('Yellow Fat' Disease) in Swine"

"Definition.--Steatitus ('yellow fat' disease) in swine
is a yellow pigmentation of adipose tissue associated
with the use of fish products and flaxseed as feed."

"Distribution and incidence.--Steatitus usually occurs
near fisheries where cannery wastes are fed to swine.
The disease is also found on fur ranches where the remains
of mink feed containing fish products are consumed by pigs.
The use of feed containing other substances possessing
highly unsaturated fatty acids, such as flaxseed, will also
produce the disease."

"Feeding swine rations containing excessive amounts of
highly unsaturated fatty acids and inadequate quantities of
tocopherols causes porcine adipose tissue to contain a
yellow, acid-fast pigment.  The pigment consists of fat
soluble and fat insoluble fractions and the latter possesses
acid-fast staining characteristics.  Fat cells can
incorporate and stabilize unsaturated fatty acids as
'storage fat' if vitamin E, an antioxidant, is added to a
ration rich in unsaturated fatty acids."

"The fat of affected swine has an odor of fish that can
be accentuated by heating the tissue.  Swine having steatitus
tend to be thin and in poor physical condition."

"Macroscopic appearance.--Subcutaneous and mesenteric
fat, in particular, show the alterations characteristic
of this dietary disease.  Affected fat is slightly
opaque and firmer than normal and varies from bright yellow
to yellowish brown."

"Microscopic appearance.--Foreign fat globules, some
of which contain an acid-fast pigment, are deposited in
the interstices of the adipose tissue.  This deposition
appears as fine droplets or, quite frequently, as larger
discrete globules in groups or islets of variable size.
At time the globules have a pericapillary and periarteriole
location.  Adipose cell tissues themselves are usually not
affected.  Occasionally, foreign fat globules are seen
within adipose cells and their presence is interpreted to
represent a permeation into the normal storage fat
rather than a disturbed metabolic process.  Foci of
inflammation composed of collections of macrophages,
neutrophils, eosinophils, and an occasional foreign-body
giant cell may be present between the adipose cells.  These
macrophages and giant cells contain droplets of yellow fat.
This inflammatory reaction is the basis for applying the
name 'steatitus' to the condition."

---

From: [email-masked] (Steve Russell)
Date: 23 Dec 1994 18:32:44 GMT

I recently read in MIND, FOOD, AND SMART PILLS that flax seed oil 
can go a long way to safeguarding your health by supplying
omega 3 acids via 2 tablespoons of the stuff a day.

Would a strict vegetarian ( whole grains, legumes, veggies, fruit and 
soy ) need as much?

I've had a hard time finding anyone who carries the oil.  Are the
capsules useful as well and if so how many per day?

Thanks
Steve
[email-masked]

---

From: [email-masked] (Methuselah)
Date: 27 Dec 1994 04:39:18 GMT

Mark Thorson ([email-masked]) wrote:

: Of all food animals, the pig is most similar to a human.

Similar to fat humans, perhaps.

: Like humans it is by nature an omnivore, unlike cattle,
: goats, and sheep which are herbivores.  The USDA publication

Like some humans, you mean.

: _Atlas_of_Meat_Inspection_Pathology_ (USDA, 1972) is a
: guide for meat inspectors, not human nutrition.  But here
: are some interesting comments on the effects of flaxseed
: oil consumption on pigs, quoting from pages 165-167:

: "Steatitis ('Yellow Fat' Disease) in Swine"

: "Definition.--Steatitus ('yellow fat' disease) in swine
: is a yellow pigmentation of adipose tissue associated
: with the use of fish products and flaxseed as feed."

: "Distribution and incidence.--Steatitus usually occurs
: near fisheries where cannery wastes are fed to swine.
: The disease is also found on fur ranches where the remains
: of mink feed containing fish products are consumed by pigs.
: The use of feed containing other substances possessing
: highly unsaturated fatty acids, such as flaxseed, will also
: produce the disease."

: "The fat of affected swine has an odor of fish that can
: be accentuated by heating the tissue.  Swine having steatitus
: tend to be thin and in poor physical condition."

Interesting that the only real outward symptom of this so-called pig 
disease is that the pig is not overweight ("poor physical condition" for 
a pig, no doubt).  Sounds like omega-3's are doing their job for us 
humans who get them in our diets.  But of course let's avoid feeding them 
to the pigs, or the carnivores out there will have to eat tough, stringy 
ham and pork chops :)

---

From: [email-masked] (The Dangling Conversationalist)
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 20:15:15 GMT

In <[email-masked]>,
<[email-masked]> wrote:
>
> On 23 Dec 1994, Steve Russell wrote:
> 
> Yeah, I heard that too, and tried and TRIED to choke that stuff down on a 
> daily basis. Bought it fresh, kept it refrigerated and out of the light, 
> mixed it with strongly flavored beverages, and still had a devil of a 
> time keeping myself from hurling as soon as I'd forced it down my throat. 
> That stuff tastes BAD!

Flaxseed oil is more commonly known as linseed oil.  It's used to make
house paint, printer's ink, and other industrial fluids.  It's not
considered edible.

Just eat little fat and ignore health fads like omega-3 acids.  The
health & hypochondria industry would recommend eating shredded news-
papers if it thought people would pay $40 an ounce for them.

-:-
   "Stop breakfasting on cheeseburgers and hot buttered french fries.  No
    more copping out on dinner by wolfing a 10-pound bag of Oreos.  Get
    that bushel of Ring Dings off your nightstand.  Eat only good, nourish-
    ing things like cauliflower, celery, and parsley."

			--Frequently Annoying Questions in misc.fitness
-- 
Col. G. L. Sicherman
[email-masked]

---

From: [email-masked] (Mark Thorson)
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 22:44:23 GMT

You missed the important bit.  This is an immune system problem, with
involvement of macrophages, neutrophils, eosinophils, etc.  I don't know
about you, but I'd rather avoid placing any extra stress on my immune system.
And, flaxseed oil and fish oils seem to be a big cause of that kind of stress.
If you want essential fatty acids, eat wheat germ oil.  That is a rich
source of essential fatty acids which poses absolutely no risk of steatitus.

---

From: [email-masked] (Colin Bruce)
Date: 28 Dec 1994 18:12:15 GMT

The Dangling Conversationalist ([email-masked]) wrote:
: In <[email-masked]>,
: <[email-masked]> wrote:
: >
: > On 23 Dec 1994, Steve Russell wrote:
: > 
: > > I recently read in MIND, FOOD, AND SMART PILLS that flax seed oil 
: > > can go a long way to safeguarding your health by supplying
: > > omega 3 acids via 2 tablespoons of the stuff a day.
: > 
: > Yeah, I heard that too, and tried and TRIED to choke that stuff down on a 
: > daily basis. Bought it fresh, kept it refrigerated and out of the light, 
: > mixed it with strongly flavored beverages, and still had a devil of a 
: > time keeping myself from hurling as soon as I'd forced it down my throat. 
: > That stuff tastes BAD!

: Flaxseed oil is more commonly known as linseed oil.  It's used to make
: house paint, printer's ink, and other industrial fluids.  It's not
: considered edible.

  Flax seed oil comes from (surprise!) flax seeds, which are edible.  Linseed
oil is DERIVED from flaxseed oil.  It's denatured in some way, or otherwise
processed.

[email-masked]
Brad Harder

---

From: [email-masked] (Hank Rendear)
Date: 29 Dec 1994 01:52:32 -0700

> oil is DERIVED from flaxseed oil.  It's denatured in some way, or otherwise

I believe it is heat that causes the conversion from edible flaxseed oil 
into toxic linseed oil. This is why it is very important to eat your flax 
seed oil fresh and absolutely not cooked!

---

From: [email-masked] (FRED W. BACH)
Date: 29 Dec 1994 08:21 PST

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (The Dangling Conversationalist) writes...
# 
#Flaxseed oil is more commonly known as linseed oil.  It's used to make
#house paint, printer's ink, and other industrial fluids.  It's not
#considered edible.
# 
#Just eat little fat and ignore health fads like omega-3 acids.  The
#health & hypochondria industry would recommend eating shredded news-
#papers if it thought people would pay $40 an ounce for them.
# 

  Have you read Udo Erasmus's book - "Fats that Kill and Fats that Heal"
  (or is it the other way around?)  ?  A great book.

  I think that conventional medicine is going to become more and more
  aware of the value of these OMEGA-3 and OMEGA-6 fatty acids in treating
  some diseases.  IF IT WORKS ON ANIMALS IT CANNOT BE PSYCHOSOMATIC.

  I am no expert in these things except to say that herbal medicines
  and natural food supplements have done a lot of good for me.

  So what makes you such an expert so that you have the audacity to say
  that Udo Erasmus's information is crap?  Where's *your* research?

#-:-
#   "Stop breakfasting on cheeseburgers and hot buttered french fries.  No
#    more copping out on dinner by wolfing a 10-pound bag of Oreos.  Get
#    that bushel of Ring Dings off your nightstand.  Eat only good, nourish-
#    ing things like cauliflower, celery, and parsley."
# 
#			--Frequently Annoying Questions in misc.fitness

   If misc.fitness faq diet does not include the necessary amount of
   certain fatty acids, then it's no good.  Period.  What is says
   about the other 'bad' things is correct, but those vegetables you
   mentioned DO NOT contain sufficient nutrients.  They are very low
   in protein, for one thing, and other things that you can get from
   properly selected, prepared and properly cooked meats.  But then
   again, if those endorphin-high jocks say it, you've always got to
   be a little leery. And don't start tellimg me that we all have to be
   vegetarian.  That's a religious issue, mister Colonel, Sir!

#-- 
#Col. G. L. Sicherman
[email-masked]

 Fred W. Bach ,    Operations Group        |  Internet: [email-masked]
 TRIUMF (TRI-University Meson Facility)    |  Voice:  604-222-1047 loc 327/333
 4004 WESBROOK MALL, UBC CAMPUS            |  FAX:    604-222-1074
 University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., CANADA   V6T 2A3
  Damien says " If you don't STAND for SOMETHING, you'll FALL for ANYTHING "
 These are my opinions, which should ONLY make you read, think, and question.
 They do NOT necessarily reflect the views of my employer or fellow workers.

---

From: [email-masked] (Colin Bruce)
Date: 29 Dec 1994 17:02:51 GMT

Hank Rendear ([email-masked]) wrote:
: >   Flax seed oil comes from (surprise!) flax seeds, which are edible.  Linseed
: > oil is DERIVED from flaxseed oil.  It's denatured in some way, or otherwise
: > processed.

: I believe it is heat that causes the conversion from edible flaxseed oil 
: into toxic linseed oil. This is why it is very important to eat your flax 
: seed oil fresh and absolutely not cooked!

A really good book on the subject of fats and oils in general is
Fats the Heal and Fats that Kill, by Udo Erasmus (sp?), and yes the heat
is bad for oils.  Heat, light and oxygen are all bad for oils, but I 
don't think that all people realize that some of the oils/products with 
oils are exposed to these things before they even get to the store.  
They'll take all precations at home to reduce heat/light/oxygen, but the 
processing already wrecked the oil.

[email-masked]
Brad Harder (not colin bruce)

---

From: [email-masked] (He Comes As No Surprise)
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 1994 19:15:59 GMT

>   that Udo Erasmus's information is crap?  Where's *your* research?

I said nothing of the kind.  I do say that the diet and supplement industry
is making billions by playing up to people's fears and anxieties, and that 
it doesn't care in the least whether its wares are safe or effective so long
as the money rolls in.  I don't trust any research from such an industry.
When crooks do research they get crooked results.  They get them even
when they don't do research.  Your statement that such products have
helped you won't convince me to buy some, but it means more to me than
any amount of research results.

As for linseed oil, I still doubt that it's edible, cooked or raw, and some
recent posts here indicate that it's dangerous.  By the way, the *residue*
of linseed after the oil is extracted is widely used to feed livestock.

>    mentioned DO NOT contain sufficient nutrients. ...

Ha!  Of course you can't live on cauliflower, celery, and parsley(!).
The "Frequently Annoying Questions" list was an imposture, meeting every
stupid and ignorant question with a smug and ignorant answer.  Here's
another example:

Q. After 10 weeks of working out with weights, my muscles don't look much
   bigger.  Will steroids help?  What are they, anyway?

A. Steroids are a kind of growth hormones.  Experienced lifters call them
   "roids," which make most people think they're talking about hemorrhoids.
   Sure enough, they will make your muscles bigger.  The only disadvantages
   to roids are that they sometimes make you lose all your body hair, or
   alter your sexual orientation, or make your genitals shrivel up and rot
   off.  But if you're a real man you won't let these minor annoyances deter
   you from getting bigger muscles.  Ask your pharmacist to select a brand
   of steroids that's right for you.

-- 
Col. G. L. Sicherman
[email-masked]

---

From: [email-masked] (Scott Dorsey)
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 1994 19:39:52 GMT

>oil is DERIVED from flaxseed oil.  It's denatured in some way, or otherwise

Flax seed oil is "raw" linseed oil, while the stuff you use for painting work
is "boiled" linseed oil, which has been somewhat concentrated by evaporation.
Either way, it smells bloody awful and I wouldn't want to put it in my mouth.
You can purchase either one at your local hardware store in small drums.

Why is it that people are promoting so many healthful and life-extending 
materials which taste so bad?  I'd rather die sooner than have to put this
stuff in my mouth all the time.

Well, I suppose that a world in which garlic, red wine, and olive oil are
good for you can't be all that bad.  Pass the pate if you would.
--scott
-- 
"C'est un Nagra.  C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

---

From: [email-masked] (Francis Michael Gallina)
Date: 29 Dec 1994 14:34:55 -0800

I didn't catch the whole thread, but another very good book on fats and 
oils is "Beyond Pritikin", by I can't remember who(see what we know about 
pot thread:)

Frank

---

From: [email-masked] (Hilda Marshall)
Date: 30 Dec 1994 14:43:43 GMT

[email-masked] (Hank Rendear) writes:

>DANGER!!.....I would highly recommend that you do not consume the linseed 
>oil (raw or otherwise) unless it specifically is made for human 
>consumption. The raw linseed oil sold in hardware stores is likely 
>extracted using solvents that may be extremely harmful to ingest.

This also reminds me of something I heard about cottonseed oil, so
common in junk food because it's so cheap...  Supposedly, since
cotton and flax are "clothing crops" rather than "food crops," the
regulations for what pesticides etc. can be used on them are less
stringent.  Is this true?

Love, Hilda

---

From: [email-masked] (Hank Rendear)
Date: 30 Dec 1994 00:29:35 -0700

Stick to the cold pressed, food grade stuff you can get at the health 
food store.

---

From: [email-masked] (Cinta Utan Matamata)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 19:00:32 +0000

> regulations for what pesticides etc. can be used on them are less
Dear Hilda or anyone,
     
     Do you have a source for the good stuff? We want oil freshly cold pressed
>from  organic linseed and evening primrose seeds, bottled in glass under 
nitrogen and which tastes as good as it's meant to.
     
 Love,  Cinta 

-- 

[email-masked] is World Tree Sources for Global Nature Exchange at
17d Station Parade,Kew Gardens,Surrey TW9 3PS U.K. Opposite Kew Gardens Station.
Open Every Day 12-6pm.Ring 00 44 (01)81 332 0162 for specific information about
the Kew Organics Fruiting Non Profit Co-op to distribute goodness where its due.