Subject: Re: Get opium, legally!

From: [email-masked] (Callie)
Date: 26 Jan 1996 18:40:04 -0700

> -=> Quoting Peggy Hall to All <=-

> PH> Tommy Clonts <[email-masked]> wrote:
> PH> : You can go to the stores, and find opium poppy seeds, in the spice
> PH> : section. My grandmother has some growing, and that is where she got
> PH> the  : seeds!
> PH> The seeds you get in the grocery are not from opium poppies, they are
> PH> from a different variety.

Papaver somniferum is the opium poppy.  The seeds and oil contain
   at most trace amounts of opiates, scarcely enough to cause a positive
   reaction on a drug test unless the person had eaten a tremendous 
   quantity of the seeds.
   The variety cultivated for seeds is NOT the same variety that is
   used for producing opium - they are two very specialized varieties
   that can't be interchanged.
   If the poppy seeds in from the gorcery could be made to sprout
   you could grow, seed poppies, not opium producers.  There are
   generations of of selective plant breeding between the two.
     (and like the hemp seeds in bordfood may be cooked to sterilize them)

Papaver orientale is the common garden poppy, coming in various colors
  (probably what the granny has)
Papaver rheas is the common red field poppy

any of the 

Callie

[email-masked]      | The Write Page for genre fiction:
http://www.writepage.com  | All the books that are fun to read.

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From: [email-masked] (R.M.K.)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 18:09:14 GMT

To: ALL
Subject: Re: Get opium, legally!

[email-masked] (Callie)  replied:

C>Papaver somniferum is the opium poppy.  The seeds and oil contain
 >   that can't be interchanged.

C>Papaver orientale is the common garden poppy, coming in various colors
 >Papaver rheas is the common red field poppy

C>Callie

I DO know poppy seed when injested <even the grocery variety> *CAN*
give positive indications for opiates in urine tests...  Although, this
often depends on the sophistication of the analysis.  Certain varieties
of Papaver spp. are probably illegal in many states, but overlooked, so
long as they are used for ORNAMENTAL purposes... perhaps if Conrad is
listening, he can ellaborate..??.

Different *SPECIES* are not cross-pollinatable
<'interchangeable'..??....is that what you meant??> however, quite often
different VARIETIES are... although, not always producing the same
VARIETY as the parents.

here's some past discussion re:opium poppies... maybe this will help:

Rob.

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From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Legality of P. somniferum?

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (John Tusciuk) wr
> I hope this hasn't been done to death, but does anybody know the
> legality of growing opium poppies in a flower garden?  I would like to
> know if anyone knows for fact whether or not they are legal.  T&M
> offers some very nice ones, so apparently they are legal in England,
> but Pinetree Garden Seeds has a clause something like, "due to
> questionable legality," etc.  I would like to grow some of these, but
> don't want the DEA shredding my garden.

I'm not a lawyer, but a botanist who has been an expert witness in
drug trials identifying opium poppies (the guy was into some other
high value horticultural species, too!).  My recollection of the
pertainent section of federal law is that it is illegal to possess
ANY part of Papaver somniferum EXCEPT seeds that have been treated
to destroy their viability.

I suspect rearranging your borders after the plants have been removed
by the DEA would be the least of your problems.

BTW, there are a couple of easy ways to identify P. somniferum: If
you look at a poppy seed (Papaver, not Eschscholtzia) under about
10-15x magnification, you'll see a nice network of lines.  Looks like
someone stretched a fishnet stocking across the seed.  If it's P.
somniferum (the seed you'll get on your poppy seed rolls), there will
also be a second network ("secondary reticulum" in Taxonomish) in the
spaces of the main network.  If you look at plants of P. somniferum,
the leaves are a peculiar gray-green, and nearly hairless (glabrous).
They also connect to the stem by wrapping the petiole around the stem
(a sheathing leaf base), and there are leaves on the stem, not merely
at the base of the plant.

It's a gorgeous plant.  I got some great pictures of it when I was
in Britain one summer, much to the horror of one of my traveling
companions who was sure I was going to get busted for photographing
it!  ;-)

Kay Klier  [email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (Dawn Burgess)
Subject: Re: Legality of P. somniferum?
Date: 24 Jan 1995 17:50:19 GMT

But wait!  Then why does Shepherd's Garden Seeds (in Connecticut,
not in Britain, so you would think they comply with US laws) have
not one, but two varieties of Papaver somniferum?  Danish flag poppy,
and pepperbox bread poppy are both listed in their catalog from last
year (back cover, where anyone can see it :).  Both are listed as
P. somniferum.  You mean I could get arrested for growing something from
the seed catalog?

Dawn (who isn't growing poppies, but has been wondering about the
bread poppy in Shepherd's since last year)

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From: "Sean A. O'Hara" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Legality of P. somniferum?
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 95 13:18:48 PDT

Apparently, from all I've heard, P. sommiferum seeds are illegal in the US,
but the plants are not.  Strange.  I see the seeds offered routinely in
some catalog, both US and otherwise, and of course the plants often self-
seed in some places.  I think the thing that might 'tip-off' someone who
might turn you in are the conpicuous seed pods, which is where the
narcotic is harvested as dripping sap.  Perhaps if you keep the seed pods
picked (which promotes continual flowering anyway) you will not have a
problem.

I have not heard of anyone being harrassed over this plant here is CA
(where you'd think the authorities might not believe your motives!), but
there is always the 'story' about a nice old granny in Portland or Seattle
who was halled off to jail for having this plant in her yard!  It is
actually an 'heirloom' flower, popular at the turn of the century, and
sometimes still found in old garden that have been allowed to continue in
their 'ways'.  Some of the Color forms are quite nice.  I have some seed
>from  another netter that I've been thinking of growing this year.  We'll
see I guess!

 H O R T U L U S   A P T U S  ('gardens', 'suited to their purpose')
 Sean A. O'Hara
 710 Jean Street, Oakland, CA  94610-1459        [email-masked]
 (510) 987-0577

..
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