From sdb@ssr.com Sun May 21 00:30:51 EDT 1995
Article: 23236 of misc.health.alternative
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From: sdb@ssr.com (Scott Ballantyne)
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Subject: Re: "Some herbal remedies could severely harm liver"
Date: 19 Feb 1995 18:46:30 -0500
Organization: ScotSoft Research
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Message-ID: <3i8l8m$bsh@redhotmomma.ssr.com>
References: <3hue14$nfd@starman.convex.com> <3i0mue$h70@hollywood.cinenet.net>
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In-reply-to: jet@news.cinenet.net's message of 16 Feb 1995 15:26:06 -0800

In article <3i0mue$h70@hollywood.cinenet.net> jet@news.cinenet.net (Jet Silverman) writes:
> 
> Give me a break. After thousands of years of comfrey use, two people in 
> all of history have been documented to have had liver problems because of it.
> What about the children who needed organ transplants after taking just 
> one adult dose of Tylnol. (sp?)
> Often you will find that the people who have real trouble with herbal 
> medications have been taking up to 10 times the effective dose.
> There are risks with herbal meds. But they are small next to the risks of 
> OTC and perscription meds.


Oops, your mistake, I guess. I can name three cases without even going
to look them up, one of them was a 13 year old boy, a 23 year old
male, and a 49 year old women. There are *numerous* reports of this
occuring - in fact I believe that veno-occlusive disease from
consumption of things like comfrey is now considered the #1 cause of
this disorder. Here's an old quote from the Adverse Drug Reaction
Bulletin, Appendix II, Oct 1983:

"The ingestion of these alkaloids has been associated with a
characteristic liver disorder, first described in 1951 in the West
Indians, in which an acute stage of hepatomegaly and ascites progresses
to a chronic cirrhotic stage characterized by widespread occlusion of
the small hepatic veins. Cases of hepatic veno-occlusive disease
attributed to pyrrolizidine alkaloids have been reported throughout
the world. Some of the patients have died of fulminant hepatic failure
secondary to severe centrilobular necrosis. The syndrome has been
encountered in Britain, caused by herbal tea made from various Ilex
plants. Comfrey is a very popular herb which is not only potentially
hepatotoxic, because of the pyrrolizidine alkaloids it contains,m but
is also known to produce hepatocellular adenomas and haemangiosarcomas
and an increased incidence of bladder tumours in rats."

Comfrey contains pyrrolizidine alkaloids and unlike 'tylnol' does not
come with a warning label...

sdb
-- 
sdb@ssr.com




From e142857@teleport.com Sun May 21 00:31:52 EDT 1995
Article: 22998 of misc.health.alternative
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From: e142857@teleport.com
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Subject: Re: "Some herbal remedies could severely harm liver"
Date: 16 Feb 1995 21:47:46 GMT
Organization: Darwin Branch Memorial Trust
Lines: 37
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References: <3hue14$nfd@starman.convex.com>
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X-Newsreader: AIR News 3.X (SPRY, Inc.)

>   schumach@convex.com (Richard A. Schumacher) writes:
>  (As reported in the Dallas Morning News, Monday 13 Feb
>  1995 page 8D)
>  
     [snip].
>  
>  "Could some of these cases be due to unrecognized ingestion
>  of hepatotoxic "alternative" herbal products?", Dr. Koff
>  speculates.
>  
>  In addition to chaparral, many other herbal remedies have 
>  been found to cause liver damage, he writes. Those include
>  germander, comfrey, mistletoe, margosa oil, mate tea,
>  Cordolobo yerba tea, pennyroyal oil and others.
>  
>>>>
    
     Oh, yeah, and don't forget about Tylanol too......


     Aside from the fact that >anything< taken to excess can harm
an individual, what else is new?

==============================================================















From P_Iannone@lamg.com Sun May 21 00:36:41 EDT 1995
Article: 23161 of misc.health.alternative
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From: P_Iannone@lamg.com (Paul Iannone)
Reply-To: P_Iannone@lamg.com
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Distribution: world
Subject: Re: "Some herbal remedies could severely harm live
Date: 18 Feb 1995 12:36:45 GMT
Message-ID: <1478160382.810929@lamg.com>
Organization: Los Angeles Macintosh Group BBS
Lines: 54

In message ID <3hue14$nfd@starman.convex.com> on 2/16/95, Richard A.
Schumacher wrote:
[quoting a newspaper]
: In addition to chaparral, many other herbal remedies have 
: been found to cause liver damage, he writes. Those include
: germander, comfrey, mistletoe, margosa oil, mate tea,
: Cordolobo yerba tea, pennyroyal oil and others.
: 
:      -Matt Crenson

Herbal hit pieces in newspapers are not uncommon. They are a terrible source
for information. When quoting them, Matt, please put the newswire information
as well, since that will tell you a lot about where the information is coming
from.

The major misinformation in this article is calling chapparal an 'extract' of
creosote bush. Of course, these are two names for the same plant, and nothing
is being extracted. Chapparal is used as an anti-tumor therapy--not a
condition of health to begin with.

These other herbals are for the most part VERY uncommon. Mistletoe is also
used in tumor therapy, pennyroyal is used as an abortifacient (categories of
self-treatment that are VERY dangerous to begin with); germander is a
substitute herbal for skullcap--and should be avoided (ask for real
skullcap!), it is primarily used for its volatile oils for stomach
ache--there are plenty of better sources for volatile oils; and comfrey is
used for asthma (a chronic illness best treated by trained healers rather
than by self-help) and as a purgative--it is an excellent herbal for external
use. 

Margosa oil? Cordolobo yerba tea? Huh? Wow, those are common use herbals.
"[A]nd others" following a list that has to stoop to include unknown plants
like Cordolobo yerba tea is not a very convincing statement of additional
danger.

Mate is a daily-use beverage throughout Brazil and South America--I'd be very
surprised if it caused more liver damage than coffee.

The bottom line is that the newswires pick up these AMA hit pieces and send
them out to newspapers who publish them thoughtlessly, for their 'gotcha'
element, to sell newspapers. It's nothing but a tabloid approach to herbal
healing, and no different from the 'gotcha' health information on tv.

Can certain herbals used as single herbal drinks in high quantity hurt
people? Of course. Does that mean that herbal _therapy_ per se is dangerous?
NO. What is dangerous is ignorance, which articles like these _PROMOTE_ by
driving the concepts and materials of legitimate herbal therapy underground,
stigmatizing alternative healthcare, and promoting fear.




P_Iannone@lamg.com (Paul Iannone, P.O.B. 66843, L.A., CA 90066).



