1995.05.10 / John Logajan /  Re: SBSL vs MBSL
     
Originally-From: jlogajan@skypoint.com (John Logajan)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.fusion
Subject: Re: SBSL vs MBSL
Date: 10 May 1995 07:32:14 GMT
Organization: SkyPoint Communications, Inc.

jonesse@plasma.byu.edu wrote:
: jlogajan@skypoint.com (John Logajan) writes:
: > [Jones] said that while fusion conditions might be reached in SBSL,
: > that those conditions were "not possible" using MBSL.
: > 
: > [But] apparently there is as yet no basis to conclude that the
: > conditions in MBSL cannot reach those of SBSL.

: Not quite:  SBSL is more *likely* to allow high temps/pressures needed for
: thermonuclear fusion, but the conditions may be achievable in MBSL also


Well, when an eminent scientist says something is "impossible" I tend to
take notice and, if lacking a source of independent knowledge, tend to
give him the benefit of the doubt.

My memory was quite clear on the subject (since I wondered at the time
what the basis was for your assertion), but just to be sure, I did a
search of the spf archive and dug up the following posting which was
posted in January '94 and then reposted in Sept and Dec of '94 if not
even more often than that.

Steve Jones wrote:
> Transient (garden-variety)SL   Stable single-bubble SL [SB-SL]
> ----------------------------- -------------------------------- 
>        .                                     .
>        .                                     .
>        .                                     .
> No fusion possible.             Fusion during cavitation possible?
>        .                                     .
>        .                                     .
>        .                                     .


So it clearly indicates that you were asserting that transient or
multi-bubble SL could not possibly lead to conditions favorable
for fusion.  But now you say that, "the conditions may be achievable
in MBSL also...."

Doesn't an assertion of "impossibility" require a great degree of
supportive rigor, and ought not be a shot from the hip?


--
 - John Logajan -- jlogajan@skypoint.com  --  612-633-0345 -
 - 4248 Hamline Ave; Arden Hills, Minnesota (MN) 55112 USA -
 -   WWW URL = http://www.skypoint.com/members/jlogajan    -
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1995.05.10 / mitchell swartz /  Jones' hypothesis about E-Quest helium (and D2) - pt. 1
     
Originally-From: mica@world.std.com (mitchell swartz)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.fusion
Subject: Jones' hypothesis about E-Quest helium (and D2) - pt. 1
Subject: Re: Jones' hypothesis about E-Quest helium (and D2) pt. 1
Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 12:07:01 GMT
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA

  In Message-ID: <3opi00$966@agate.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: Jones' hypothesis about E-Quest helium (and D2) pt. 1
Richard Schultz (schultz@garnet.berkeley.edu) writes:

-   "His "explanations" (read excuses)
-for his refusal to engage in same are so transparent that H. G. Wells,
-I think, would be proud.  Does he honestly believe that anyone (with the
-possible exception of himself) fails to see through his use of obfuscation,
-irrelevance and personal attacks as an alternative to actually addressing
-the issues that are raised?"

Richard Schultz has so little concern for facts that Marion Barry
would be proud.
==============================================
"Outside of the killings, we have one of the lowest crime rates"
    Marion Barry, mayor Washington, D.C. (1989)

           --------------------------
   >  We will not do your own work for you.  
 -"Is this the editorial "we," the imperial "we," or the "let us make man
 -in Our image" we of Genesis 1?"
Simple English.  Jed, I think,  mentioned that, and perhaps another.
The correct is, therefore,  first person plural - "we".   OK?

         ---------------------------
-"BTW, I would be more than
-happy to send anyone who cares a copy of my own publication list), and
-you have refused to respond. "
Thanks.     Please do.
 You have the e-mail address. or post it here.   Looking forward to see it.

 Best wishes.
           - Mitchell Swartz  (mica@world.std.com)


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1995.05.09 / Don Sturgeon /  Re: Cold fusion: when will it be time to give up?
     
Originally-From: dsturgeo@atlantis.com (Don Sturgeon)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.fusion
Subject: Re: Cold fusion: when will it be time to give up?
Date: 9 May 1995 09:56:18 -0400
Organization: Atlantis Aerospace Corp.

In <3ob241$i6t@stc06.ctd.ornl.gov> mbk@jt3ws1.etd.ornl.gov (Kennel) writes:

>paterricus@delphi.com wrote:
>>   It seems to me that the error in the Pons/Fleischman discovery
>> was to label it as fusion. It should have been termed the
>> Pons/Fleischman Phonomenon. Then it should have been left to
>> qualified physicists to theorize and attempt to explain the phenomenon.

>Duh.  They claimed to have a neutron spectrum which got people
>all hot and bothered, but it turned out to have been fabricated.

>>             ........Jim H.


 
Why is it that you guys can't just let it die.  People make mistakes.
Shit happens.  Pons and Fleischman made a few screw ups when they went 
public with their findings.  It happened.  Move on.  Find something
new to bitch about.  
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1995.05.10 / Thomas Zemanian /  Re: Jones' hypothesis about E-Quest helium (and D2) - pt. 1
     
Originally-From: ts_zemanian@pnl.gov (Thomas S. Zemanian)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.fusion
Subject: Re: Jones' hypothesis about E-Quest helium (and D2) - pt. 1
Date: 10 May 1995 15:36:15 GMT
Organization: Battelle PNL

In article <3opm07$pmd@stratus.skypoint.net>, jlogajan@skypoint.com wrote:

> Thomas H. Kunich (tomk@netcom.com) wrote:
> : Is there some question of the way expansion at room temperature effect
> : hydrogen's temperature?
> 
> There still is in my mind.  Have we determined if the T-J effect only
> kicks in in expansion through a nozzle (as suggested by the CRC Handbook)
> or *any* expansion, such as volume expansion in an expanding container.
> 

By "T-J effect" I assume you mean Joule-Thomson heating (or cooling). 
Yes, heating or cooling will take place in non-isenthalpic of expansions
(expansion through a nozzle, ignoring bulk kinetic or potential changes,
is a constant enthalpy process.)  The Joule-Thomson coefficient is the
partial derivative of temperature with pressure at constant  enthalpy, and
is a property of the particular gas.  For an ideal gas, the Joule-Thomson
coeff. is zero.

--Tom

--
The opinions expressed herein are mine and mine alone.  Keep your filthy hands off 'em! 
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1995.05.10 /  BILLC /  Re: H2O is a-okay; a prio
     
Originally-From: billc@execnet.com (BILLC)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.fusion
Subject: Re: H2O is a-okay; a prio
Date: Wed, 10 May 95 11:28:00 -0500
Organization: Execnet Information System - 914-667-4567 - 198.232.143.136

WR>I would fully agree data should win. However, it isn't really the data
WR>that is in question. Instead, it is the interpretation of the data that is
WR>in question. Perhaps, there is a better explaination, read theory, for
WR>some of the anomolous heat generation than cold fusion.

That's exactly the point!  If it works we'll figure it out later ( I
should say they will.  I've only had 8cr.hrs of physics).  After all
Noah got soused many centuries before they understood the mechanism.
---
 þ SLMR 2.1a þ Old Chemists never die!  They just reach Equilibrium.

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1995.05.10 /  BILLC /  Joule-Thomson, deuterium
     
Originally-From: billc@execnet.com (BILLC)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.fusion
Subject: Joule-Thomson, deuterium
Date: Wed, 10 May 95 11:28:00 -0500
Organization: Execnet Information System - 914-667-4567 - 198.232.143.136

DB>Mitch was asking for references to the Joule-Thomson effect pertaining
DB>to deuterium; presumably he is implying that deuterium just might be quite
DB>different from hydrogen - and maybe he is right. I checked with the Chem.
DB>Abstracts data base (CAS) and got three hits for Joule-Thomson and deuterium


I hope that you will post the summary of the first two references!

I enjoyed your anthropomorphic account of the J-T effect.  Even so, if
excess energy is produced and due to this effect in the D case, the only
energy input is from the electric current,  Excess should still be
excess?
---
 þ SLMR 2.1a þ Old Chemists never die!  They just reach Equilibrium.

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1995.05.10 / Alan M /  Re: Cold Fusion: The Musical
     
Originally-From: "Alan M. Dunsmuir" <Alan@moonrake.demon.co.uk>
Newsgroups: sci.physics.fusion
Subject: Re: Cold Fusion: The Musical
Date: 10 May 1995 17:37:19 +0100
Organization: Home

In article: <3op8lh$324@news.sas.ab.ca>  charl@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca () writes:
> Hello you scientist types you.  My name is Wes.  I live in Edmonton, 
> Canada.  My friends Paul and Joe and I are almost finished writing a play 
> entitled "Cold Fusion: The Musical".  We were going to call it "Pulp 
> Fusion", but we didn't.  The show will be performed by the Three Dead 
> Trolls in a Baggie comedy troupe, and opens June 1.  But never mind the 
> advertising, that's not entirely why I'm here.
> I need a transcript, or videotape, or audiotape or anything of the 
> original Cold Fusion Press Conference of March 23, 1989.  If anyone has 
> it, please let me know.  Also, if anyone wants to peruse the script, I 
> might be happy to post it somewhere, although I must say I do fear Dr. 
> Steven Jones may not appreciate his namesake carrying a bullwhip and a 
> old, beat-up hat; fighting snakes and beating up Ninjas in order to 
> assasinate Pons and Fleischmann...
> Oh well... thanks for your time.
> 

Weren't you performing at ICCF5 last month in Monaco? All the other comedians were there.

Break a leg.

-- 
Alan M. Dunsmuir [@ his wits end]     (Can't even quote poetry right)

         I am his Highness' dog at Kew
         Pray tell me sir, whose dog are you?
			      [Alexander Pope]

PGP Public Key available on request.


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1995.05.10 / Tom Droege /  Re: Cold Fusion: The Musical
     
Originally-From: Droege@fnal.fnal.gov (Tom Droege)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.fusion
Subject: Re: Cold Fusion: The Musical
Date: 10 May 1995 17:34:35 GMT
Organization: fermilab

In article <3op8lh$324@news.sas.ab.ca>, charl@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca () says:
>
>Hello you scientist types you.  My name is Wes.  I live in Edmonton, 
>Canada.  My friends Paul and Joe and I are almost finished writing a play 
>entitled "Cold Fusion: The Musical".  We were going to call it "Pulp 

I for one, encourage you.  Why not "Pulp Fusion"?  Sounds like a great
title to me.  But I am not a serious person.

>Fusion", but we didn't.  The show will be performed by the Three Dead 
>Trolls in a Baggie comedy troupe, and opens June 1.  But never mind the 
>advertising, that's not entirely why I'm here.

Hey!  Why not!  Possibly we could get up a Bus tour to come to the 
performance.  At least video tape it, and let us know where to ask
for it.  

>I need a transcript, or videotape, or audiotape or anything of the 
>original Cold Fusion Press Conference of March 23, 1989.  If anyone has 

Sorry, but try Jed Rothwell.  

>it, please let me know.  Also, if anyone wants to peruse the script, I 
>might be happy to post it somewhere, although I must say I do fear Dr. 
>Steven Jones may not appreciate his namesake carrying a bullwhip and a 
>old, beat-up hat; fighting snakes and beating up Ninjas in order to

How about it Steve, is that your self image?

Tom Droege
 
>assasinate Pons and Fleischmann...
>Oh well... thanks for your time.
>
>--
>Wes                          email: charl@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca
>EDMONTON, AB,
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1995.05.10 / Chris Morriss /  Re: Tiny Ball Lightning have been found!
     
Originally-From: Chris Morriss <CRSM@oroboros.demon.co.uk>
Newsgroups: sci.physics.fusion,sci.geo.meteorology,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Re: Tiny Ball Lightning have been found!
Date: 10 May 1995 21:02:30 +0100
Organization: Demon Internet

The recent miniature ball lightning discussion took me back to my early
teens when I was an enthusiastic but illegal pirate radio operator
together with a few of my friends.  One of the things we used to try to do
was to develop antenna tuning units that would manage to get very short
lengths of wire to act as a transmitting antenna.  The RF voltages on the
antenna were very high and I often got very painful RF arcs to the skin of 
my hand, accompanied by the unmistakable smell of roast human!
The interesting thing is that 2 or 3 times when I got an RF arc to a piece
of surrounding metalwork I saw a miniature spherical orange/yellow ball
detach itself from the arc and travel in a zig-zag path for perhaps a
couple of seconds.
As it travelled it made a sizzling noise with small 'firework sparkler'
type bits coming out of it.  The ball could only have been 1 or 2mm in
diameter.  I guess these things might also have been of the same form as
ball lightning.
Has anybody else noticed anything like this?
-- 
Chris Morriss
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1995.05.10 /  charl@freenet. /  Cold Fusion: The Musical
     
Originally-From: charl@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca ()
Newsgroups: sci.physics.fusion
Subject: Cold Fusion: The Musical
Date: 10 May 1995 20:20:28 GMT
Organization: Edmonton Freenet, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

...Actually, we intend to do it at ICCF 6 in Bejing.  I'm not kidding.

Wes
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1995.05.10 /  charl@freenet. /  Cold Fusion: The Musical
     
Originally-From: charl@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca ()
Newsgroups: sci.physics.fusion
Subject: Cold Fusion: The Musical
Date: 10 May 1995 20:21:36 GMT
Organization: Edmonton Freenet, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

Oh, by the way... Dr. Jones doesn't assasinate P&F... that would be mean.

Wes
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1995.05.10 / Paul Koloc /  Re: Prayer to our Maker,sing Miss Saigon, THE LAST ELECTRON OF THE
     
Originally-From: pmk@prometheus.UUCP (Paul M. Koloc)
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.plutonium,sci.engr,sci.physics,sci.physics.f
sion,sci.physics.electromag,sci.chem,sci.bio,sci.math
Subject: Re: Prayer to our Maker,sing Miss Saigon, THE LAST ELECTRON OF THE
Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 11:16:18 GMT
Organization: Prometheus II, Ltd.

In article <3o9tbb$d01@news.htp.com> Tim Mirabile <tim@mail.htp.com> writes:
>Is there a May Fools' Day? :)

Yes, on April 1.  
        ^^^^^^^
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Paul M. Koloc, Bx 1037 Prometheus II Ltd, College Park MD 20741-1037    |
| mimsy!promethe!pmk; pmk%prometheus@mimsy.umd.edu   FAX (301) 434-6737   |
| VOICE (301) 445-1075   *****  Commercial FUSION in the Nineties *****   |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+

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1995.05.10 / Thomas Clarke /  Re: The Farce of Physics
     
Originally-From: clarke@acme.ist.ucf.edu (Thomas Clarke)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranet.ufo,alt.philosophy.objectivis
,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,misc.books.technical,sci.astro,sci.energy,
ci.misc,sci.physics,sci.physics.electromag,sci.physics.fusion,sci.physic
.particle,sci.research,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: The Farce of Physics
Date: 10 May 1995 20:55:00 GMT
Organization: University of Central Florida

In article <3oefp8$fml@xcalibur.IntNet.net> wallaceb@news.IntNet.net (Bryan  
Wallace) writes:

>bizarre pathological mystic untested theories that argue that empty space 
>is a solid of infinite mass/energy that can create the universe in a Big 
>Bang.

That's a pretty good summary of current physics and cosmology.  I would
disagree with the untested, though; the universe exists, these theories
explain it pretty well and are getting better.  It's doubtful if it will
ever be possible to create a universe in the lab to give these theories
a test in the true sense.

> The conformist bigots and politicians that have made modern 
> physics a farce ignore the fact that an objective comparative analysis of 
> the wave and particle models of light in the solar system would be a 
> definitive test of their stationary ether/space/vacuum theoretical 
> arguments because they it know it gives a politically incorrect answer! 

What do you mean?  The Aspect experiment which confirms bizarre pathological
mystic quantum mechanical predictions was carried out in the solar system.

Bell showed using reasoning based on elementary set theory, i.e. logic,
that any theory that is non-bizarre (assigns objective independent
existence to particles), is non-pathological (does not contain connections,
correlations at a distance that seem to operate faster than light), and
non-mystic (observations independent of conscious observers), must
predict experimental outcomes that differ from quantum mechanics.
Aspect's experiment confirms that quantum mechanics makes the correct
predictions, and that the non-bizarre/pathological/mystic theories fail.

Nothing politically correct or incorrect about the outcomes of experiment
or of reasoning based on elementary set theory.

Tom Clarke
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1995.05.10 / Bryan Wallace /  Re: The Farce of Physics
     
Originally-From: wallaceb@news.IntNet.net (Bryan Wallace)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranet.ufo,alt.philosophy.objectivis
,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,misc.books.technical,sci.astro,sci.energy,
ci.misc,sci.physics,sci.physics.electromag,sci.physics.fusion,sci.physic
.particle,sci.research
Subject: Re: The Farce of Physics
Date: 10 May 1995 16:55:45 -0400
Organization: Intelligence Network Online, Inc.

Robert Reid (reid@pentagon.io.com) wrote:
: >
: >You have a very distorted view of netiquette and physics.  I really am
: >espousing a return to legitimate scientific principles based on the 
: >objective search for knowledge as opposed to the current trend toward 
: >bizarre pathological mystic untested theories that argue that empty space 
: >is a solid of infinite mass/energy that can create the universe in a Big 
: >Bang.  The conformist bigots and politicians that have made modern 
: >physics a farce ignore the fact that an objective comparative analysis of 
: >the wave and particle models of light in the solar system would be a 
: >definitive test of their stationary ether/space/vacuum theoretical 
: >arguments because they it know it gives a politically incorrect answer! 
: >
: >Bryan
: >
: Mr. Wallace, you are once again missing the point.  Your topic
: IS important.  However, even important topics need to be limited to
: ONE newsgroup.  I've sent the follow-up to sci.skeptic.
: You can change that to the ONE newsgroup of your choice.

: Have a nice day, sir.

: Robert E. Reid
: reid@io.com

Mr. Reid pulled a fast one on me.  He posted his message to all 14 
newsgroups I have been crossposting to and tried to limit my followup to 
one group.  The people who organized a flame campaign against my posting 
the same message to over 200 groups in 3 days informed me of the proper 
way to crosspost and I've been doing that with no further problems from 
them.  Their principle objection is that if you do not properly crosspost 
you have multiple copies of the same file on all computer systems and 
this leaves less disk space for everyone else.

Bryan


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