From: BurmaNet ------------------------ BurmaNet ------------------------ "Appropriate Information Technologies, Practical Strategies" ---------------------------------------------------------- The BurmaNet News: September 8, 1995 issue# 218 Noted in Passing: (The Tatmadaw) brings peace of mind, security, and tranquility to the people.- New Light of Myanmar (quoted in Border Stories and Uncertain Bridges) HEADLINES: ========== REUTER: BANGLADESH AND BURMA BEGIN BORDER TRADE REUTER: UNOCAL (UCL.N) TO SPEND US $400-500 MLN/YR IN ASIA MAINICHI: BORDER STORIES AND UNCERTAIN BRIDGES BKK POST: MINISTERS TO HELP INDOCHINA, BURMA PROMOTE FREE MARKET ASIAWEEK: LETTER TO EDITOR - AN ARGUMENT FOR SOVEREIGNTY UNOCAL: STATEMENT ON BEYOND RANGOON KNU: KNU CENTRAL COMMITTEE LIST INFO ON BURMA BILLS AND DEBATE IN US CONGRESS ------------------------------------------------------- Produced with the support of the Burma Information Group (B.I.G). The BurmaNet News is an electronic newspaper covering Burma. Articles from newspapers, magazines, newsletters, the wire services and the Internet as well as original material are published. The BurmaNet News is e-mailed directly to subscribers and is also distributed via the soc.culture.burma and seasia-l mailing lists and is also available via the reg.burma conference on the APC networks. 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Look under the International Political Economy section, then select Geographic Archive, then Asia, then Burma. ---------------------------------------------------------- BURMANET SUBJECT-MATTER RESOURCE LIST BurmaNet regularly receives enquiries on a number of different topics related to Burma. The scope of the subjects involved is simplytoo broad for any one person to cover. BurmaNet is therefore organizing a number of volunteer coordinators to field questions on various subjects. If you have questions on any of the following subjects, please direct email to the following coordinators, who will either answer your question or try to put you in contact with someone who can: Arakan/Rohingya/Burma- [volunteer needed] Bangladesh border Art/archaeology/: [volunteer needed] Campus activism: [on summer vacation] Boycott campaigns: [Pepsi] wcsbeau@superior.ccs.carleton.ca Buddhism: Buddhist Relief Mission, c/o NBH03114@niftyserve.or.jp Chin history/culture: plilian@asc.corp.mot.com Fonts: tom@cs.colgate.edu History of Burma: zarni@mcc.wisc.edu Kachin history/culture: 74750.1267@compuserve.com Karen history/culture: 102113.2571@Compuserve.com Karen Historical Society Mon history/culture: [volunteer needed] Naga history/culture: [volunteer needed] [Burma-India border] Pali literature: "Palmleaf" c/o burmanet@igc.apc.org Shan history/culture: [volunteer needed] Shareholder activism: frdc@igc.apc.org "Attn. S. Billeness" Tourism campaigns: bagp@gn.apc.org "Attn. S. Sutcliffe" World Wide Web: FreeBurma@POBox.com Volunteering: christin@ksc.net.th [Feel free to suggest more areas of coverage] ---------------------------------------------------------- REUTER: BANGLADESH AND BURMA BEGIN BORDER TRADE September 6, 1995 DHAKA, - Bangladesh and Burma have begun long-agreed border trade allowing free flow of goods across the Naf river, which officials said was a new landmark in ties between the two countries. Dhaka and Rangoon signed the border trade agreement in May last year but its implementation was delayed until Tuesday for unexplained reasons. Commerce Minister Shamsul Islam and Burmese counterpart Lieutenant-General Tun Kyi launched the trade in the presence of businessmen in the Bangladesh border town of Teknaf and Moungaw township on the other side, the official BSS news agency said late on Tuesday. Under the agreement, traders will be able to import or export goods worth US$2,500 at a time without registration or opening of letters of credit. Businessmen are also allowed to make 48-hour trips across the border. Commerce Ministry officials said on Wednesday the official two-way trade between the two countries stood at nearly $18.7 million in fiscal 1994/95 (July-June). ``The event is a milestone and a turning point in the bilateral ties and this would go a long way in promoting the trade and commercial relation between two friendly countries, Islam said. ``The beginning of the border trade would serve as the corner stone for promotion and consolidation of the bilateral ties in the coming days,'' BSS quoted Tun Kyi as saying. Bangladesh will export pharmaceutical products, iron rods, irrigation pumps, plastic pipes and ready-made garments to Burma and import rice, pulse, beans, timber, bamboo, livestocks, fish and vegetables, officials told reporters. ******************************* REUTER: UNOCAL TO SPEND US $400-500 MLN/YR IN ASIA September 4, 1995 SINGAPORE- Unocal Corp said it plans to spend US$400 million to US$500 million per year in Asia over the next one to two years in various oil and gas projects. Unocal Corp chairman and chief executive officer Roger Beach told a news conference to announce the company's secondary listing in Singapore that the projects would be concentrated in Thailand, Burma, Indonesia and the Philippines. "In the short-term, Unocal's estimated budget for investment in Asia would be US$400 million to US$500 million ... short-term means one to two years," Beach said. -- Singapore newsroom (65 8703199) ******************* MAINICHI: BORDER STORIES AND UNCERTAIN BRIDGES August 3, 1995 by Richard Humphries The policy of constructive engagement to change the Burmese government's ways has its supporters and detractors, pitting governments and companies against activists. Richard Humphries examines the harsh effects on the people caught literally in the middle -- the Karen ethnic group on the Thai-Burmese border. "After they entered the camp, we couldn't go back to get our belongings, so they burnt our houses and our belongings too. We just ran for our lives without anything. My sister and I didn't know where to go. One shell exploded behind the monastery. Many shells exploded inside the camp. I can't say exactly how many, but some exploded so close to me, so close I thought I must have been hit." This terrifying account was given by Ma Htway (not her real name), a 20-year-old Muslim Karen woman, on April 29, 1995, to representatives of the Karen Human Rights Group (KHRG). Her refugee camp at Baw Noh in Thailand, some 130 kilometers north of the Thai town of Mae Sot, had been attacked and largely destroyed the day before. The "they" that Ma Htway referred to were primarily members of a breakaway Karen faction, the Democratic Kayin Buddhist Organization (DKBO), whose defection from the largely Christian-led Karen National Union and subsequent alliance with the Burmese Army last December, ostensibly on religious grounds, has allowed the Burmese government to score significant gains in its 45-year-old civil war with Burma's Karen minority. Some of the attackers were probably Burmese Army regulars, identifiable because they did not speak Karen and reinforced by the fact that other non-Karen-speaking attackers wearing Burmese Army insignia had been seen in similar attacks on camps along the border. The shells were Burmese, coming from the nearby army camp on the Moei River, which forms the border between Burma and Thailand, at a point opposite the Thai village of Mae Ta Waw. Ironically, the small Karen security complement in Baw Noh had been disarme by Thai forces the day before, in an attempt to appease Burmese government sentiment. The attacks on the refugee camps are among the many human rights violations investigated since 1992 by the KHRG, a small but active monitoring and advocacy organization which was based at the Karen resistance stronghold of Manerplaw until that base fell on Jan. 27, 1995. Founded by a young Canadian, the group continues to operate along the Thai - Burma border, conducting interviews, collecting information and translating Burmese documents. It provides raw material for use by other advocacy groups and journalists who report on Burmese human rights violations. Refugee camps are not normally happy places. Especially when located in unsympathetic countries, they are more of a dead end, uncertain refuges where victims of war and oppression find limited sanctuary and try to piece together a semblance of their past lives and perhaps dream about either going back or moving on. "Could you please sponsor my daughter to America?" one of the camp leaders at Baw Noh would inquire of American visitors. Still, the camp at Baw Noh, home to roughly 7,000 Karen refugees, was not without its attractions. The area was lush and fertile, the visual atmosphere comprised of a highland tropical preserve sur- rounded by small hills. Karen women in their lonygi and colorfully decorated white (if unmarried) and red (if married) homespun blouses could be seen doing the wash in the stream that ran through the camp. Children laughed and sang in the schoolyard at the entrance to the site. The bamboo houses were basic but adequate, constructed in rows with signs on each residence listing by sex the number of refugees living inside. All this is gone now. Both the school and the camp's hospital were destroyed in the attack, and the refugees have been moved to a larger camp some 50 kilometers away, supposedly for their protection but just as likely as a first step toward the forced repatriation of the refugees, of whom there are over 90,000, back to Burma. One might ask why should people who had fled their country because of oppression, and were not even safe in their present sanctuary, be subjected to the threat of forced repatriation. The answer could be that they are at the cutting edge - in the true sense of the word cut - of the policy of "constructive engagement"practiced by many Southeast Asian countries toward Rangoon. The threat of repatriation is real. In the April 20 edition of the Bangkok Post, the Thai Army chief, Gen. Wimol Wongwanich, was quoted as saying, "If we were not afraid of being criticized by the world community on humanitarian grounds and if it would not give the country problems, then this army chief would take only one week to push them all out, regardless of how many hundreds of thousands of Karen were now in the country. I used to do this with over 40,000 Cambodian refugees, If we were able to do the same with Karens, I would finish the task in just one week," The repatriation of the Karen refugees holds advantages for all parties concerned except for the refugees themselves: Thailand does not want them, the DKBO needs people to control, and Burma does not like this inconvenient and internationally accessible reminder of its brutal policies. Supporters of constructive engagement are now pointing to the release, on July 10, of the Burmese pro-democracy leader and Nobel Peace Prize winner Aung San Suu Kyi as fruit of their policies. It is still too early to tell why she was freed after six years of house arrest, and it is also too early to predict what course Burmese politics will now take, though attacks on minorities along the country's borders have continued. Suu Kyi herself has injected a strong note of caution to potential international investors and aid donors, urging at a July 14 news conference that they wait for genuine reconciliation and real moves toward democracy before proceeding, "I have been released, that's all. Nothing else has changed," she stated. Observers have noted that Nelson Mandela, to whom Suu Kyi often has been compared, continued to insist on tough eco- nomic measures against South Africa for two to three years after his release. For its part, the Burmese government reminded its people that it fully intended to retain power, insisting in the July 15 issue of the government - run newspaper New Light of Myanmar that the army "brings peace of mind, security, and tranquility to the people." Several countries, particularly in Asia, have, for several years promoted and engaged in economic ties with Rangoon whatever the state of human rights in Burma. Western companies also have participated in development projects, including France's Total and America's Unocal on a natural gas pipeline from the Burmese coast over Three Pagoda Pass into Thailand, benefiting the generals and, as critics charge (Toronto Star, June 23), leading to the forcible conscription of civilians for labor in the border area. Unocal's outgoing chairman, Richard Stegemeier, summed up the moral ambivalence of his company's involvement in a recent statement: "We are by necessity apolitical. It's not only smart business, but it's often required by law and certainly by our contracts" (Houston Chronicle, May 23). Indeed, the language used by Unocal and Asian proponents of constructive engagement has a hollow ring to it. In Thailand, Burma is often described publicly as an old friend ("Thailand and Burma have a long history of close and warm relations" - Therdpong Chaiyaniat of the Democratic Party) that needs coddling ("Constructive engament is the only way to win Rangoon's trust" - former Thai Foreign Minister Krasac Chanawongse, The Nation newspaper, May 5) despite a history of disputes and a very real mutual dislike. The Thai fear of upsetting Burma's powerful military is matched by Burmese contempt for Thai prowess. A common element is greed, though even here Burma gets the upper hand, raising the stakes to keep the Thais off balance. In Mae Sot, the Thai government is financing the entire 3 million dollar cost of the building of a "friendship" bridge over the Moei River to the Burmese town of Myawaddy, a project meant to cement those supposedly warm ties and to promote economic development of the type that backers of constructive engagement assert will ease SLORC's (for State Law and Order Restoration Council, as the Burmese government is called) transition toward a more internationally acceptable standard of behavior and "integration into the region." Nonetheless, on June 5, SLORC Construction Minister U Khin Maung Yin ordered a halt to work on the bridge, suggesting that the Thai side's dumping of earth into the river as part of the construction project was encroaching on Burmese sovereignty (but conveniently ignoring Burmese attacks in Thailand), and leaflets urging Burmese traders to boycott Thai products began to appear in the area. What Rangoon wants is Thailand's complete cooperation regarding Rangoon's border policy of suppression. The tactic of biting the hand that feeds it will probably work. The then Thai Defense Minister Gen. Vijit Sookmark expressed confidence that the bridge dispute could be resolved (Bangkok Post, June 25, 1995). Burma's language of justification exhibits a lack of sophistication, but this is only to be expected. Other countries in the region have developed the art of silencing their critics with such things as censorship laws and lawsuits, but Burma has used sharper and more lethal instruments to this effect, so the language it has employed has had a stunted development, ranging from the blunt to the bizarre in the army-dominated official media. Forced labor camps are referred to as "labor contribution camps" where people happily donate their services to the army and are reluctant to leave when their work period ends. The Mon minority ends its revolt not because of Burma's overwhelming military might, nor because of intense pressure from Thailand, but because of "the noble desire and sincere attitude of the State Law and Order Restoration Council." Aid workers helping refugees in Thailand also are subject to the invective of Rangoon. An official from one group, the Burmese Border Consortium, was described by the New Light of Myanmar as "like some sly tiger" that would grab for the tail of its victim instead of for the neck. SLORC Foreign Minister Ohn Gyaw was reported by The Associated Press (June 11) as having stated that the Western concept of human rights "is not to the requirement of the Asian perception" and certainly differs from how SLORC thinks it should be. While SLORC may have learned this response, however poorly stated, from its friends and investors in the region, the language it uses with villagers in the border area is not couched in the same ambiguity. Orders signed by Burmese Army column commanders this year have been smuggled out of the country. One issued to newly occupied Karen villages (names withheld to avoid retaliation) states, "If the army camp calls you, come. If the army asks your help, help. ... There is a patient army; there is an impatient army. Choose which you like." Another informs certain villages that they should "Continuously comply with the following as soon as you have received this letter to collect people from villages (for labor) ... " and that if enough people do not go, "responsibility for that will fall on whoever doesn't go." (KHRG report, May 1, 1995). Elsewhere the same brutal pattern continues. Some 100 kilometers south of Mae Sot and about a 15-kilometer drive along dirt roads inside Burma lies the Karen village of Mawkee. A quiet place, Mawkee consisted of a number of scattered houses in the traditional raised - platform style. Last Christmas, the villagers were hard at work building a new hos- pital of bamboo and wood, "We've been working for two days; in three more we'll be finished," said one villager confidently. A five-person team consisting of Burmese and Karen medical trainees had just arrived from Dr. Cynthia Maung's well-known refugee clinic i n Mae Sot to bring health care to an area that until then hadn't seen much fighting. Following the fall of the Karen strongholds at Manerplaw and Kawmoora early this year, the Karen leadership moved to the area and consequently the Burmese military began to attack these backwaters, attracted as well by the timber-extraction possibilities nearby. Mawkee was captured in April, and many more refugees crossed the border into Thailand. Among these new refugees were some who were not native to the area, but people who had been seized by the Burmese to serve as forced labor or, if one wants to use the Burmese Army's term for this, "labor contributors." The words of one Min Htoo (not his real name), a Burman Buddhist and dock worker from Moulmein, are instructive: "I was arrested in Moulmein on March 9. 1 was arrested by 104th Battalion soldiers. We carried supplies like rice and ammunition to Mawkee. ... They ordered us to dig bunkers and trenches around their camp. ... My hands were torn open, so one day I told them I could not do it that day. Then a soldier beat me again and again, at least 10 times. I saw porters beaten every day...." The people along the border are not benefiting from the investment flowing into Burma resulting from constructive en- gagement policies. The hotels being built in anticipation of the 1996 Visit Myanmar Year are not for them. These people may well be in Burma in 1996, not as tourists but as frightened villagers, "constructively" compelled to return. An elderly Buddhist Karen widow from Baw Noh, whose house was also burned down in the raid, best expressed the refugees' real sentiments when interviewed by the KHRG: "I will say the truth. While we were staying in Burma, the Burmese were oppressing us in many ways. That's why we fled to Thailand. And while we are staying in Thailand we thank our (refugee] leaders very much for the way they try their best to look after us. We don't want to go back to Burma to be oppressed and suffer so much pain. We want to stay here." Richard Humphries, a freelance writer who resides in Osaka, worked for five months at Dr. Cynthia Maung's refugee clinic in Mae Sot and has traveled extensively along the Thai/Burmese border. **************************** BKK POST: MINISTERS TO HELP INDOCHINA, BURMA PROMOTE FREE MARKET September 7, 1995 by Achara Ashayagachat & Somporn Thapanachai Bandar Seri Begawan ASEAN Economic Ministers and Japan will discuss an interim report on an assistance framework to help Indochina and Burma move towards a market economy. The report, prepared by a working group set up last year, will provide tangible measures to assist Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, and Burma in their economic transition. If approved, ASEAN economic ministers and their Japanese counterpart, Ryotaro Hashimoto, the Minister for Industry and International Trade, will announce the plan for implementation. The working group, comprising ASEAN economic officials has met three times in Thailand and Japan to work out a framework of cooperation among 10 South East Asian countries with support from Japan, said Hidetoshi Nishimura of the Japan Overseas Development Corporation. Various ideas have been discussed and proposed including specific projects from the Indochinese countries especially Vietnam. "The so-called Market Economy Accelerated Policy has been created to be applied to Indochina and Burma. The idea is that some areas or cities will be chosen as models to be on trial penetration of market economy so that foreign investors will feel comfortable with all procedures," he said. For Vietnam, Hanoi, the capital, Ho Chi Minh City, Danang, the central port, and Haiphong, the northern port, have been picked as models, said a source. Japan's initiatives were somewhat more specific than ASEAN's proposal. Certain fields of cooperation were suggested such as natural resource exploration, human resource, infrastructure and sectoral industry development. Sectoral industries include cars, textiles, electronics, telecommunications, tourism and energy. Thailand has also suggested a legal framework was needed to create an environment conducive to a market economy. A source said: "They have to promote privatisation and modernisation in their countries. Even Ho Chi Minh City, which is more acquainted with commercialisation, but some rules and regulations are too stringent." Vietnam has pursued economic reform inspired by the renovation policy Doi Moi created almost a decade ago, however, the process has been gradual. Japan's influence is returning to Indochina. It resumed aid to Vietnam in 1992 and has become the largest foreign investor. The source said Vietnam still has bureaucratic problems that ASEAN and Japan felt were deterring investors. He cited example of investment in auto industries which the investors needed to contact at least three agencies _ transportation, heavy industry and the state committee for cooperation and investment. ASEAN proposed the establishment of a one-stop agency for investors in the model cities. The source said that once the policy had been approved, the working group will draught a master plan of action to be submitted at next ASEAN Economic Meeting in Bangkok ahead of the ASEAN leaders' meeting. ***************************************************************** ASIAWEEK: LETTER TO EDITOR - AN ARGUMENT FOR SOVEREIGNTY OF MONLAND, KAWTHOOLEI, WA, AND KARENNI September 8, 1995 by Myint Thein, Dallas, Texas, U.S.A. Anthony Davis's "Law and Disorder" discusses the role of the State Law and Order Restoration Council in the opium trade (INSIDE STORY, Aug. 25). It says that SLORC permitted ex-CPB (Communist Part of Burma) groups "the autonomy to step up heroin production" and that "Khun Sa is relatively small-time compared to these guys." The U.S. government is finally acknowledging SLORC's role in the drug trade. On June 20, Congressman Benjamin Gilman, Chairman of the House Committee on International Relations, requested the General Accounting Office "to prepare a report to the Congress on the feasibility of stemming the production of opium in Myanmar through assistance to the Wa people." It is his intent to provide up to $15 million per year in narcotic control assistance to (Myanmar). The draft of this proposed legislation states "recipients of assistance may not be connected to or sponsored by SLORC." I was discreetly given through an intermediary a U.S. government report on Myanmar which I forwarded to the SLORC leadership. This report may have played an important role in securing the unconditional release of Aung San Suu Kyi. It states that in recent years the SLORC has publicly concluded cease-fires in place with several armed ethnic groups, such as the Wa, Kachin and Karenni, under which these groups retain their arms and control of certain territory, which (Myanmar) government troops undertake not to enter without permission. These agreements appear to constitute a formal acknowledgment by the government of (Myanmar) that it neither controls large and well-defined parts of its national territory, nor is it in a state of belligerency with organizations that are in effective control of these regions. Consequently, arguably consistent with international law, the U.S. government might: ++ not apply to such regions, or to goods originating from such regions, any trade and investment sanctions that it imposes on the part of Myanmar controlled by SLORC; and/or ++ formally assert that Americans have the right to trade in and with such regions, and to travel to and in them, and to overfly them, without leave or hindrance from the SLORC regime. This could position (but not commit) the U.S. government to make sure that anti-SLORC forces are able to buy food and/or arms at a later date, to counterbalance SLORC's Chinese arms. **************** UNOCAL STATEMENT ON BEYOND RANGOON August 29, 1995 UNOCAL Contact: David Garcia 213-977-5047 Statement: The events depicted in the motion picture, "Beyond Rangoon", predate and are beyond the scope of the Yadana project. Therefore, we do not believe we are qualified to comment on the movie. Over time, energy development projects, like Yadana, have a positive impact on people's lives, regardless of a country's internal politics. Such projects foster economic growth, improve living standards and stimulate social reform. We've seen this happen repeatedly during 30 years of direct, first-hand experience in Southeast Asian countries like Thailand, Indonesia and the Philippines. We anticipate that the Yadana project will yield similar benefits, particularly to the people living in the pipeline vicinity. END ******************* The following is the list of Central Standing Committee of the Karen National ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Union elected in the eleventh Congress of the KNU ------------------------------------------------- Time : August 21-31, 1995 Place: Secret Location in Burma Representatives: 106 Observers : 79 1. Saw Bo Mya, President ( Chief of Bureau for Alliance Foreign Affairs) 2. Saw Shwe Saing, Vice-President ( Chief of Bureau for Defence Affairs) 3. Saw Ba Thin, General Secretary 4. Malm Sha Lar Phan, Joint Gen. Sec. (l) 5. Saw Tu Tu Lay, Joint Gen. Sec. (2) 6. Saw Kaser Doh, ( Chief of Bureau for Financial Affairs ) 7. Saw Aung San, ( Chief of Bureau for Economic Affairs ) 8. Saw Gaw Soe, ( Chief Of Bureau for Organizational Affairs ) 9. Saw Maung Maung, ( Chief of Bureau for Central Administrative Affairs ) 10. Saw San Lin, ( Chief of Bureau for Social Affairs ) 11. Saw Baw Yu Paw, ( chief of Bureau for Disciplinary Work for Monitoring Affairs) 12. Gen. Tamla Baw, Central Standing Committee member. 13. Gen. Hla Htoo, CSC member 14. Brig- Gen. Ralph, CSC member 15. Brig- Gen. Kyaw Thaung, CSC member 16. Dr. Marta, CSC member 17. Saw Shwe Ya Heh, CSC member 18. Saw Roger, CSC member 19. Saw David ThareKabaw, CSC member 20. Mahn Satila, CSC member 21. Saw Gweh Htoo, CSC member 22. Saw Oliver, CSC member 23. Saw Mu Htoo, CSC member 24. Saw Klee Say, CSC member 25. Saw Tar Er, CSC member 26. Brig. Gen. Htin Maung, CSC member 27. Saw Ah Toe, CSC member 28. Brig. Gen. Kyaw Lin, CSC member 29. Saw Taki Baw, CSC member 30. Saw Hla Shwe, CSC member 31. Brig. Gen. Taw La, CSC member 32. Brig. Gen. Sherman, CSC member 33. Saw Authar Shwe, CSC member 34. Brig. Gen. Ah See, CSC member 35. Naw Lar Poe, CSC member CSC = Central Standing Committee KNU = Karen National Union ************************ INFO ON BURMA BILLS AND DEBATE IN US CONGRESS Dear BurmaWatchers, I've been asked by several people where to find information about the McConnell bill, S. 1092, the Free Burma Act of 1995, which calls for comprehensive sanctions against the SLORC regime. This information is available at the following world-web site: http://thomas.loc.gov This is the Library of Congress web site where copies of all bills introduced in the current Congress (104th) can be introduced. Queries can also be run for subjects, like "Burma", to get a list of all the bills which mention Burma. Also, floor speeches as the appeared in the Congressional Record can also be downloaded. Give it a whirl, it's pretty excellent! For those American citizens who wish to lobby their Congressmen, it's possible the more technologically advanced of those individuals may already have a web site set up. Most of them can be accessed at web site http://www.house.gov Finally, if you're really serious about this, you should consider purchasing an excellent Congressional guide (complete with addresses, phone and fax contact information and breakdown of various Committees) called "Congress at Your Fingertips". The standard version is worth getting and it only costs $7 or $8. Ask for more information at phone (703) 734-3266 or (800) 659-8708. If you have any questions about all this, please drop me a line at reaproy@cais.com Hope that you all find this helpful, Cheers and best wishes, Phil Robertson