------------------------ BurmaNet ------------------------ "Appropriate Information Technologies, Practical Strategies" ---------------------------------------------------------- The BurmaNet News: August 26, 1997 Issue #805 HEADLINES: ========== RANGOON RADIO: RESIGNATION OF NLD MP U BA NYEIN KYODO: TOKYO REJECTS REFUGEE APPLICATIONS BY 17 THE NATION: GO ASK SLORC HOW LONG THEY CAN STAND THE NATION: NLD AWAITS DIALOGUE KNU: PRESS RELEASE NO.49-51/97 KNPP: HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS AND BATTLE UPDATE NATION: GENERAL SEES SUU KYI PLOY TO GET GREEN CARD THE NATION: TOP SCHOLARS SUPPORT CHANGE IN ASEAN -------------------------------------------------------------------------- RANGOON RADIO MYANMAR: COMMISSION ACCEPTS RESIGNATION OF NLD MP U BA NYEIN August 20, 1997 [translated from Burmese] U Ba Nyein of the National League for Democracy [NLD], an elected member of the People's Assembly in Banmauk Township Constituency, Sagaing Division during the Multiparty Democratic General Elections, citing old age and poor health, has submitted his resignation of his own volition to withdraw as elected representative. The Multiparty Democratic General Election Commission has accepted his resignation effective today in accordance with Section 11, Subsection E of the People's Assembly Election Law. *************************************** KYODO: TOKYO REJECTS REFUGEE APPLICATIONS BY 17 BURMA ACTIVISTS August 21, 1997 Tokyo, Aug. 21 Kyodo -- A Myanmar [Burma] democracy activist, named by the junta as a suspect in April's parcel bomb attack at the home of a senior junta official, on Thursday denied the allegations and renewed his call for Japan to grant him and his fellow activists refugee status. "It is very likely that I will get the death penalty if I were to go back," Thomas Gon Aung told a news conference. "My friends and family could also get jail terms." In 1994, Japan's justice ministry rejected Gon Aung's application for refugee status. Gon Aung, 36, who has been in Japan since 1989, now awaits a reply on the objections he filed with the ministry against the 1994 decision. On Thursday, Gon Aung tried to file a new application seeking refugee status but was rejected, his lawyer Shogo Watanabe said. Sixteen other Myanmar activists also sought to file fresh applications Thursday but were also rejected, Watanabe said. The justice ministry has rejected these Myanmar nationals' requests for refugee status, citing procedural matters that they did not file applications within 60 days of their arrival in Japan. Watanabe said the junta's naming in June of Gon Aung as a suspect puts his client in greater danger than before. Junta-controlled newspapers have printed Gon Aung's name and picture, calling him a suspect in the bomb attack that killed Lt. Gen. Tin Oo's daughter April 6, Watanabe said. Gon Aung said his brother in Myanmar was taken into custody shortly after he was named a suspect of the bombing. He said no Myanmar democracy activists based in Japan sent the bomb parcel, adding that the activists will face harsh punishment if they are sent back. Shortly after the parcel bomb attack, the Myanmar junta said they suspect the parcel was sent by antigovernment groups stationed in Japan because it bore a Tokyo postmark. **************************************** THE NATION: 'GO ASK SLORC HOW LONG THEY CAN STAND THE STRAIN' August 25, 1997 Andreas Harsono RANGOON -An American Burma watcher once said that Kyi Maung, 79, the vice chairman of the National League for Democracy, is the man most responsible for leading the NLD to its overwhelming victory in the election in May 1990 while other NLD leaders were in detention. An elderly figure who cannot hide his fondness for good humour and philosophy, Kyi Maung is widely considered to be one of the most prominent members of the 10-strong NLD Central Executive Committee which includes chairman U Aung Shwe, Vice Chairman U Tin Oo, Secretary-General Aung San Suu Kyi and treasurer U Lwin. At the outbreak of World War II, young Kyi Maung joined the Burma Independence Army and later rose to the rank of colonel. But he was forced into retirement while serving as the commander of the Southwestern Command after opposing the military takeover of 1962. "His pension is very small. It's only 1,000 kyats," said wife Daw Kyi Kyi who offered part of their house for rent to a South Korean family to support the family. One American dollar at the market rate is currently worth about 230 kyat. Kyi Maung, a veteran politician who was repeatedly imprisoned by successive Burmese military rulers for a total of about 12 years since his forced retirement in 1963, gave an exclusive interview to The Nation at his house in a lane off Kaba Aye Pagoda Road in Rangoon on Aug 14. Below are excerpts from the interview. Has the July meeting between NLD chairman U Aung Shwe and SLORC First Secretary Gen Khin Nyunt produced some results? I think it was a step forward. They have never talked to us like that day. It was very cordial. We considered the talk very significant. It came from Khin Nyunt. Will further talks include Aung San Suu Kyi? We have told them that in future talks if they decide that they should be meaningful - they cannot keep her out of the scene. Their perception of her is completely mistaken - that she is obstinate, strong headed. It is not true. She is quite reasonable. But the Slorc said Suu Kyi has repeatedly outmaneouvered the other members of the Central Executive Committee of NLD? It is not true. You could invite them to sit in our meeting while we are having discussions. No, she is committed to going along with the opinion of the majority. They said in some cases the committee had agreed on something but she suddenly changed the decisions? No, no, not at all. I cannot recall such a situation. If she does, I for one, would walk out of the committee. When we walked out of the National Convention in November 1995, they presumed that she was the instigator. Not at all. She did not utter one word. Check it with Tin Oo. She did not even utter one word. What happened? She was new to the National Convention. She was released in July. Problems had already arisen inside the National Convention. So U Aung Shwe said the situation was unworkable there. It was conducted like a meeting to present seminar papers. They were comedies. We could not be there. We really wanted to discuss all of these [issues] but we were never allowed to present our agenda. They accused her of being behind us. What about Burma's membership in Asean? If the NLD had become the government in 1990, we would have really wooed Asean to receive us. Our objection to it was that Asean should delay Burma's membership under such an unaccountable government. They are an illegitimate government. We wanted them to be accountable. This government does not recognise the popular vote. On principle, we are not against Burma joining Asean. The only thing we are asking is to have its membership delayed until after there is a dialogue within the country. That is the reason behind it. As for trade sanctions, we do not want Burma getting poorer. We want the democratic world to put pressure on them, ask them for democratic change. That was the idea behind it. Now that Burma-has became a member of Asean, we have to recognise the facts and the reality. And we do. It is now up to Asean to persuade them. But how do you perceive the undemocratic nature of some Asean countries like Indonesia for instance? What I'm trying to say is that the Slorc is not alone in Asean. It has Indonesia as a model. But Indonesia even has relatively a free press which allows its people's voice to be heard. But here? Don't only take Slorc's nine years in existence. You have to add 26 years of military rule in this country. [Slorc] is the continuation of the Ne Win regime [since 1962]. But they say they are different from Ne Win. Under Ne Win the economy was really bad. Now the economy is open. You can see flights coming into Rangoon everyday. Cars and new buildings are on the streets? No, no, it is worse now. The price of petrol has been raised seven times, 720 per cent last month. I had my own experience. I sent out my boy to buy two bottles of ink. It costs me 300 kyat for the two. I use fountain pens. How much was it, let's say? five years ago? If it was available then, maybe within the range of 20 kyat. The Slorc is suggesting that the military could have 26 per cent of the seats, permanent seats, in the future parliament in Burma just as the Indonesian generals have? I don't think it is going to take place in this country because of the ethnic minorities. We hear, maybe wrongly, but we hear that the ethnic minorities would fight because 25 per cent of the seats would be applied in their areas too. The Kachins, the Chins are suspicious that the Burmese would grow stronger. How could we solve the stalemate in Burma? The problem here is not very difficult compared to South Africa's Nelson Mandela and F W de Klerk. The situation here is very simple if you get to the root of this. When Slorc took power in 1988, in the aftermath of demonstrations which they suppressed violently, they said, "Alright, we're going to have polls." Then they set up the date, one-and a-half years away. But the problem was that once the election was held and the party that won the majority was not theirs, they said we should draft the constitution first. They refused to hand over power. They established the National Convention only in 1992. But then in the name of an open market economy they contacted foreign businessmen. They became richer and richer. They started to talk about keeping power. You can't compare this sort of scenario with the Indonesian scenario. There you have [Indonesian communist leader] D N Aidit who tried to stage a coup. I went to school in America with Gen Ahmad Yani. He was a close friend. Yani [Indonesian army chief in 1965] was killed during the coup and Suharto came to power. It is a different scenario. Here they are not keeping their original promises. These promises are their problem. You were arrested and harassed. You spent 12 years behind bars-seven during the Ne Win regime and another five under SLORC. Do you think you and your colleagues have the stamina to go on? Have you ever been tortured? No, no, not on old person like me. But by the same question, you can ask Abel [Brig Gen David Oliver Abel, minister for National Planning and Economic Development] whether he could stand the stress? How long can he survive under the strain and the peace pressure? [giggling] Thailand is different. It could find someone who would come up with US$15 billion. Burma has great difficulty getting US$100 million. In Indonesia I was told President Suharto has what is called the Berkeley Mafia who advise him and work out the economy. But here? Abel? *********************************************** THE NATION: NLD AWAITS DIALOGUE August 25, 1997 The Burmese opposition is growing increasingly confident the military government will seek talks soon, the Nation's Andreas Harsono and Yindee Laertcharoenchok report. The residence of U Tin Oo is located in the elite Golden Valley area in Rangoon and the Burmese dissident was still listening to an English language foreign radio service. He had the volume set high as if to taunt the military intelligence officers who frequently inspect his house. "In Burma, listening to foreign radio stations is a rare phenomenon. People are afraid. They don't talk about politics in public. They could end up in jail even by mentioning the names of some opposition figures. "Everybody wishes to talk. But the day will come. It is not far away," smiled the square-faced and bespectacled Tin Oo, a retired army general and currently the vice-chairman of the opposition National League for Democracy whose secretary-general is 1991 Nobel Peace laureate Aung San Suu Kyi. Clad in light blue longyi, white collarless shirt and grey Burmese jacket, Tin Oo hinted that the time is now appropriate for the ruling State Law and Order Restoration Council (Slorc) to have talks with the NLD. "They [Slorc] once said they are not going to talk with Khun Sa. The next day they drank tea together," said Tin Oo, referring to the infamous drug lord who in January last year surrendered himself to the Slorc and who has since claimed to have washed his hand off illicit heroin trade in the Golden Triangle area and now live quietly in a 6 mansion in Rangoon. Tin Oo is not alone in thinking so. Scores of Asean diplomats in Rangoon and prominent Burmese figures believed that both the Slorc and NLD are now interested in opening a dialogue in a bid to resolve Burmese political stalemate since Slorc's refusal to hand over power to NLD after winning the 1990 general election. Many believed if Burma could find a solution, it would not only benefit the Burmese people who had suffered from brutal military rule since 1962, but also contribute to stability in Southeast Asia. "Thailand, at least, will have no refugees on its western border," said an Asian diplomat. Poerwanto Lenggono, the Indonesian ambassador to Burma, said the Slorc had taken steps to open a dialogue with NLD after the country's membership in Asean was confirmed in the Asean ministerial meeting in Kuala Lumpur last month. He said since then both sides of the Burmese divide are restraining themselves and appear to "soften" their political stance. Poerwanto said the situation is now relatively "peaceful" although the University Avenue remains closed where people are barred from going to Suu Kyi's residence on that famous street where the NLD had held public gatherings every weekend since her release in July 1995 until they were stopped late last year by the Slorc. To many exiled dissidents and foreign diplomats, the unexpected meeting on July 17 between Slorc Secretary Lieutenant General Khin Nyunt and NLD Chairman U Aung Shwe was actually the beginning of a bilateral Slorc-NLD dialogue. Although some critics believed the meeting was organised purely for "international consumption" in a move to avert any possible last-minute hurdle to Burma's admission into Asean, several Burmese activists - including an exiled NLD MP in Bangkok - were ready to give the Slorc the benefit of the doubt. Despite an obvious lack of any essential substance, the latter hoped that the "cordial discussions" as the Slorc put it would lead to more talks between the two Burmese political antagonists. Khin Nyunt, also chief of the notorious Directorate for Military Intelligence Services, reportedly told Aung Shwe that he would like to have further dialogue, but the NLD leader also clearly notified that further talks should include Suu Kyi. "We're not going to have dialogue without her," Aung Shwe reportedly said. Poerwanto said over the last three months, NLD has not made any new overtures especially after the Slorc had accused it of involvement in the fatal parcel bomb attack in April that killed the eldest daughter of Slorc Secretary Number Two Lieutenant General Tin 00. He doubted whether Suu Kyi, who is a strong supporter of non-violence movement, could have order such a move, adding that the 52-year-old NLD leader had perhaps expected Asean to ask the Slorc to be "a good boy" after becoming an Asean member. Some critics said that Slorc decision to have the talks was because the generals are facing difficulties in running the country under strong international pressure. The military junta cannot keep the prices of basic needs under control, prompting criticism of the military regime. Burmese journalist Sein Win, however, has another explanation. He believed that Suu Kyi is "lying low" after Khin Nyunt's serious allegations in June that she and the NLD had received over US$80,000 from American organisations. Under the Burmese law, it is illegal for any political party to receive financial support from foreign countries. When asked whether Burma could get out of the current political stalemate, Sein Win, who worked for the then privately-run New Light of Burma before it was nationalised in 1965, said it might happen after the constitution is passed. But as to when this will happen, nobody knows. The National Convention had stopped convening after NLD pulled out of the constitution-making body in November 1995. Sein Win said- after the passing of the constitution, SLORC promised to hold a general election but want to exclude Suu Kyi because she is married to a foreigner. Burma's laws ban politicians married to foreigners from involvement in parliamentary or governmental affairs. Suu Kyi, who is married to British scholar Dr Michael Aris, however, has repeatedly said she would not seek political power. Some Burmese businessmen also doubted whether people like Tin Oo and Suu Kyi could govern Burma "because they have no military sup port." It is next to impossible that Suu Kyi, however popular she is, be in power as long as the army does not support her. "Power comes from the barrel of the gun," said a Chinese noodle manufacturer. When asked whether the Slorc and NLD needs an international mediator like South African Nelson Mandela who is now working on East Timor, Tin Oo said the situation in Burma and East Timor is different. According to him, Burma does not need a mediator although he admitted that a number of Nobel laureates including Mandela and South African Bishop Desmond Tutu had already offered help. "No, we can solve the problem ourselves," said the former chief of staff of the Burmese Army. He also said that scores of old veteran officers had organised a meeting to help mediate the Slorc-NLD conflict, adding that these old soldiers - who helped General Aung San, Suu Kyi's father, to fight against the British colonial ruler and liberate Burma - want to see democracy and good governance restored in Burma before they die. Tin Oo explained that bilateral talks should be conducted on equal grounds "in a dignified way on the pattern of democratic principle." He also urge Asean representatives to Rangoon to talk with NLD. **************************************************** KNU: PRESS RELEASE NO.49-51/97 From: win1@psnulok.loxinfo.co.th OFFICE OF THE SUPREME HEADQUARTERS KAREN NATIONAL UNION KAWTHOOLEI PRESS RELEASE NO.49/97 - ATROCITIES BY SLORC Regarding 1997 SLORC Offensive against KNU August 23,1997 Kaw-ka-reik District * 09-8-97 A Sergeant from enemy LIB 549 shot up the audience of a video show at Aw-kaw village killing Ma Than Htay 23(F, 6-month pregnant) and Nyang Hlaing 13 (M) and wounding Maung Saw Oo 11(M). Pa-pun District * 24-7-97: Troops from enemy LIB (439) shot up the village of Maw-law village wounding villager Saw Tu Lu 32. * 29-7-97: Troops from enemy LIB(709) indiscriminately shot at the villagers of Thway-doe village, wounding a villager. The troops stayed at the village for a day shooting all the chickens and pigs found and ate them. Toungoo District * 24-7-97: Troops, led by Tint Lwin Oo, from enemy IB 55 came to Ber-gor-doe and ate as well as destroyed the villager's live-stock and food supply. They seized all women in Kee-pla-doe and Cor-say-ko villages, including young girls and nursing mothers, and forced them to carry supplies to Koe-mor-doe village on 27-7-97. When in Koe-mor-doe, the troops forced all of them to stay in the village church building and desecrate the church by forcing them relieve themselves in it, making all the villagers feel very distressed. * 29-7-97: Troops from the same IB 55 came to Dek-ko village and looted 2 gold chains, 3 rings, a pair of earrings and 2000 Kyat from villager Naw Koo Lu and valuables from other villagers also. Nyaung-le-bin District: *In Pyu township, troops from enemy LIB (439) charged the people 500 Kyat, per person, for a permit to work in their fields and farms. * From 7-7-97 to 1-8-97, in Kyauk-kyi township, troops from enemy IB (60) and LIB (351) seized 20 women and forced the people to ransom them at the rate of 600 Kyat per person. Ma-lad-daw villagers were forced to relocate in Tha-beay-neant and then they charged the villagers 10 Kyat per person per day, for returning and looking after their plantations and orchards. ----------------------------------- PRESS RELEASE NO.50/97 - ATROCITIES BY SLORC Regarding 1997 SLORC Offensive against KNU August 24, 997 Kaw-ka-reik Township August 24.1997 * 20-7-97: Accusing Mae-ka-lat villager Saw Chay Heh, 25, of being an insurgent, troops from enemy LID 356 arrested him and demanded that he hand over his weapon. When he could not produce any weapon, the troops took him to Lay-tha-ray cliff and booted him down to his death from the cliff top. * 13-7-97: Sixty two Nayung-ta-ko and Naung -ta-marn villagers arrived at the border village of Pan-klang of Um-phang township in flight from their villages, when they could no longer bear the atrocities of killing, rape, forced labor and extortion perpetrated by enemy LIBs 545, 546, 547, 648, 549, 355, 356, 357 and IBs 31, 61, 106, 231 & etc, in their area. * 16-7-97: For the same reasons mentioned above, 72 Win-lon villagers arrived at a place near Pan-Klang. At one point during their flight, they were fired on by the enemy troops and, as a result, some of the villagers were found missing. Toungoo District * 05-8-97: A military column from enemy LIB 539 came to Ka-shee-kee-doe village and arrested the village head, Saw Ywa Hseh Moo Ler. The troops executed him after prolonged torture. * 8-8-97: A military column from enemy LIB 706 rounded up all the villagers it could find in Play-hsa-lo, Yu-lo,Plaw-baw-doe, Lay-kay-lo, Por-part & etc and took them to Ba-ya-na-the village on 11-8-97. Again on 14-8-97, LIB 706 brought in 120 more villagers, including the young and adults, from those villages. * 09-8-97: Troops from LIB 701 seized 90 villagers, including women and children from Baw-ga-leet and Gor-theh-doe villages and forced them to carry supplies to Bu-hsa-kee village, on 10-8-97. --------------------------------------------------- PRESS RELEASE NO. 51/97 - ATROCITIES BY SLORC Regarding SLORC 1997 Offensive against KNU August 25, 1997 Tavoy-Mergui District * 17-7-1997: A military column led by Captain Myint Shwe from enemy LIB 208 came to Pa-nweh-po-klo village and burnt down the village Christian church. On 25-7-97, the column arrested Pay-cha villagers Saw Kway Poe, Saw Tun Hla and Saw Par Er and then executed them without reason. It killed and ate 3 of the villagers' cattle. Again, on 26-7-97, the column came to Pay-cha and burnt down 5 houses and pandal. * 25-7-97: Enemy troops came to Ga-zer-der village and burnt down the village Christian church and house. * 11-8-97: Troops led by their officer, Nay Myo Thu, from enemy IB 280 ransacked Maw-thaw-kwa village. In addition to looting all the villagers' valuables, the troops looted the villagers' food supply as well. * 12-8-97: Again, the same troops came to East Port-taw village and ransacked every house in the village. * 12-8-97: A military column led by 2nd in Command, Khin Maung Win, from the enemy IB 280 arrested and executed Ler-der-poo villager Saw Bla Day 27. Again, on 13-8-97, the column arrested and executed Hseet-ku villagers Saw Ko Sher 52, Saw Ba Nee 26, Saw Pee Ler 18, Saw Ba Shwe 34 and Saw Wah Ler 34, without reason. (Translated and printed by the Karen Information Center and distributed by the CCT) ***************************************** KNPP: HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS AND BATTLE UPDATE August 25, 1997 From: ooreh THE GOVERNMENT OF KARENNI MINISTRY OF PUBLIC RELATIONS AND INFORMATION 25 August 1997 Report HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION COMMITTED BY SLORC On 24 August 1997, Slorc troops of LIB 102 under the command of Aung Myo Min (unknown position) burnt down 28 houses of Kaw Moo De village of No. (2) District in Karenni. On 25 August 1997, Slorc troops of LIB 426 under the command of Lt. Major Soe Nwe, commander and Major Win Soe, second commander, burnt down 16 houses of Ywe Beh village and destroyed 35 acres of planted rice paddy. _______________ Battle News in No. (2) District area On 24 August 1997, the Karenni Army attacked Slorc troops of LIB 102 under the command of Aung Myo Min (unknown position), while the Slorc troops were burning the buildings of Kaw Moo De village. One Slorc soldier was wounded. Casualty of Karenni troops was nil. In the same day the Karenni Army attacked Slorc troops of Battalion No. 531 under unknown commander that taking position between Mawchi and Pa Saung town. One Slorc soldier was seriously wounded. Casualty of Karenni troops was nil. ********************************************** NATION: GENERAL SEES SUU KYI PLOY TO GET GREEN CARD August 25, 1997 RANGOON - A leading member of the Burmese military junta charged that Burmese opposition leader and 1991 Nobel Peace Prize laureate Aung San Suu Kyi, who is under semi-house arrest and not permitted to speak to reporters, is working for the interests of the United States and is seeking a green card in order to become an American citizen. Brig Gen David Oliver Abel, 62, minister for National Planning and Economic Development of the State Law and Order Restoration Council (Slorc), made the allegations in an exclusive interview with The Nation at the Prime Minister and Ministers' Office on Thein Byu Road in downtown Rangoon. The red brick, colonial-style building is where Gen Aung San, Burma's most famous national hero and the father of Suu Kyi, was assassinated in 1947. "The room is locked now. We use it for prayer," said Abel, who is of German and Shan descent and widely considered to be one of the smartest generals in the inner circle of the Slorc's so called "soft-liners". There's a lot of speculation here that the Slorc and NLD will have another round of talks to find a solution to the question of Burmese democracy. Can you confirm that? I cannot confirm that, but Gen Khin Nyunt had a talk with the NLD in July. The talk was about the situation in the country and political objectives. We called them and invited them. There are some lights. You can see some lights. But I would not like to elaborate further on it. How bright are the lights?" Well, if you have a dialogue and a talk, it's two-way. If you are receptive, I think it's worth talking with you. But if you close your door, that is another scenario. I think they are also quite satisfied with the talks. They opened their door. We also talked about another talk in the future. How has your new membership in Asean influenced this? You know the policy of Asean is one of non-interference in the internal affairs of another country. Of course, in the spirit of Asean brotherhood, in a spirit of goodwill they would like to see peace and tranquility in this country, and political stability and everything. But you don't interfere. But didn't Asean call on the Slorc in Hong Kong [during the Hong Kong handover ceremony] to have a dialogue with NLD? It was not a call. Really! What they said in Hong Kong was sort of "it would be a good idea if the government could have a talk with the NLD." Still the National Convention is the best dialogue we are having. It represents everybody. They [NLD] have their representatives in the National Convention. President Suharto recently agreed that South African statesman Nelson Mandela could help mediate the problem of the internationally-disputed East Timor. Do you think Burma needs an international mediator? There you are talking about [East Timorese] people. Here we are talking about the whole country. It is different. I think the UN Charter is quite clear. The sovereignty of a country should not be violated. Nobody should interfere with the sovereignty of a country. We don't meddle in anybody's affairs. We don't like anybody to meddle in our affairs, as well. I think that is quite clear. I think the National Convention is a very capable body for deciding the future of our country. People also say the Slorc is interested in learning from the Indonesian constitution, etc. Would you briefly say in what field, how and to what extent that your government is interested in Indonesia? We look at many constitutions. We studied the Indonesian constitution. We have studied the Indonesian miracle and also the South Korean miracle. We have also studied the miracle of the NICs [New Industrialised Countries]. [There are] many good things that we can learn. We can learn many good things in these studies, especially from Indonesia, because the state of Indonesia was created under revolution. Before, they were under Dutch colonialism and created a free Indonesia. We fought against the colonialists also to establish Myanmar. These are two very similar situations. I think on that base we can learn a lot from each other. We paid a lot and heavily for what we have achieved, similar to Indonesia. That freedom was fought with life and blood. With that objective and inspiration we look at Indonesia as a model. Burma was the first Asian country which recognised Indonesian independence in 1946. Many Indonesian people think they owe Burma for its independence. Yes! We gave Indonesia a lot of support. Radio Free Indonesia was broadcast from Myanmar. Garuda Airlines, the first aircraft, was born in Myanmar. We still have the Garuda 001 here [at a Rangoon museum]. We supported the revolutionary movement in Indonesia, although we ourselves just gained our independence. We were not well off but for the freedom of the people of Indonesia we sacrificed on our side. I mean this in the spirit of brotherhood. Now, what about Indonesian NGOs who say they have to help Aung San Suu Kyi in return? Well, we cannot tell them, "You don't have to say it." We cannot tell them, "You don't have to feel it." But how much? How many? Many people abroad admire Aung San Suu Kyi. But your newspaper, the New Light on Myanmar, looks down on her and even uses abusive words to attack her personally. Tell me what do you and your colleagues think of her? She might be a smart person. But I also sort of fear that her allegiance is not to our country. Her allegiance is to another country. She does not care anything about Myanmar. You know she asked for sanctions. When US President Bill Clinton signed the sanctions, she said, "This is the best thing that the President ever did." Things like that. When the Karen National Union had a meeting on the border they made a declaration - and she said she supported the declaration. That's insurgency! She [talks about] human rights and democracy, but she doesn't know what is happening. But she's always anti-government - I would say anti-Myanmar even. Isn't this really because of your government's male chauvinism? Rubbish! How can that be? I tell you she is married to a foreigner. According to our law, she cannot be elected. You cannot be a parliamentarian. You cannot be a head of state. You cannot be anything since you are married to a foreigner. Because you are a wife of a foreigner, you are a dependent of a foreigner, so you cannot be [a head of state]. It's the same thing in Thailand. Let me tell you one thing. Intelligence is one thing. You can be the most intelligent person in the world. But if you are not patriotic then you are useless. Based on my visit here I know that Aung San Suu Kyi is very popular. Very popular? People think so. But she is using her position, her present situation, to obtain a green card from America. That's why you read Gen Khin Nyunt's statement recently on her receiving foreign aid. That's quite clear. But what about the other NLD Central Executive Committee members? The NLD is not only Aung San Suu Kyi. It is a political party that won the general election. Without Aung San Suu Kyi what would you say the NLD would be? If Suu Kyi only represented the NLD, and she was not here, what do you think would happen? I'm not an expert on Burma. And I have no pretensions of being one. Okay! If she is not here, the rest of the leaders, the Central Executive Committee, cannot make decisions on their own. Unanimous decisions are not respected; [decisions are] always made alone, by her. The Central Executive Committee is 10 people. Out of 10 people, nine people can make a decision and she rejects it. Will you say that party is a democratic party? Nine people make decisions and they are rejected. In what cases? You have to find out for yourself. ********************************************** THE NATION: TOP SCHOLARS SUPPORT CHANGE IN ASEAN ENGAGEMENT POLICY August 25,1997 Malee Traisawasdichai LEADING international academics urged the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (Asean) to take the initiative in pressuring Burma's military junta to participate in dialogue with its people and dissident groups, adding that the organisation is discriminatory in the way it has dealt with political conflicts in Cambodia and Burma. They also called on Asean to take up a "constructive intervention" policy and redefine its "consensus" principle to come to terms with the economic and political gaps rising from the expansion of the grouping- consisting of democratic and socialist, legitimate and illegitimate, as well as economically advanced and less advanced countries. In the international conference entitled: "Constructive Engagement in Asia: Political and Economic Dimension", which ended on Friday, Josef Silverstein, a professor at Rutgers University in the United States, questioned Asean's policy in choosing to treat Burma and Cambodia differently. He said.. "it is true that Asean has an obligation concerning Cambodia to fulfil the 1991 Paris Peace Accord in regards to the right of self-determination, but the grouping should have the same obligation towards its new member, Burma whose people have suffered brutal human rights abuses by the ruling military junta and are struggling to achieve democracy. "In Burma, 43 million people are either prisoners or captive. This is a country under a military dictatorship and still torn by civil war. This is a reality on the verge of the 21st century. It is the people's attempts to have their own government," Silverstein said. "Cambodia has the right of self-determination, but I don't see why the Burmese people can't have that," he said. Burma became an Asean member in July while the grouping postponed the admission of Cambodia, following a coup by the country's strongman Hun Sen, who ousted the first prime minister Prince Norodom Ranariddh. Kavi Chongkitthavorn, from The Nation, however, pointed out that Asean's differing stance towards handling Burma and Cambodia is motivated by different political and strategic reasons. "Asean's policy on Burma is Asean against the West [to counter its promotion of human rights]. But for Cambodia, Asean has to be involved because China has moved quickly. So by not having China in Cambodia, other countries have stayed engaged," Kavi said. Debbie Stothard, a representative of a non-governmental organisation on Burma, said that Asean, though having a nature of promoting dialogue, has failed to do so in the case of the State of Law and Order Restoration Council (Slorc). "The Slorc said it doesn't need dialogue, not just with the people, but with Asean also. When Asean officials raises questions with the Slorc, it says, 'Don't ask too many questions'. So we have [Asean] embassies so scared that they will not to talk with the Slorc, let alone with Aung San Suu Kyi," Stothard said. "With Burma becoming a member, Asean should pressure Slorc to begin a dialogue, she said. Dr Amitay Archarya, from the Joint Centre for Asia-Pacific Studies at York University in Canada, said that "constructive intervention", with its "proactive" element, would be more appropriate than the current constructive engagement policy -Asean uses to deal with conflicts in the region. Archarya said there are at least two examples of Asean's constructive intervention in the past. During the time when communism was its biggest threat, Asean helped the Philippines government suffuse a Muslim rebellion. In the 1970s, Thailand also allowed Malaysia's army to cross its border to fight communist insurgents in the southern region, he said. "Today we do not have the same situation. But there is a precedent [for constructive intervention]. The reality of all this is the ambiguity in the whole Asean way," Archarya said. Archarya also pointed out that the question of Burma, and the future membership for Cambodia, will make Asean's consensus principle suffer. "The question of Burma is a problem because people don't think it is a legitimate government, yet nobody [in Asean] wants to question its political legitimacy. But Asean has to redefine the consensus principle, for example, whether it wants to go back to a majority vote," Archarya said. However, Carlyle A Thayer, head of the School of Politics at Australian Defence Force Academy in Canberra, remains optimistic about Asean's "constructive engagement". Within Asean activities, Slorc will be engaged in various meetings and hopefully dialogue will be promoted, he said. "We should have a little hope [for Slorc], as it somehow can change. To isolate Burma, like isolating Vietnam during the cold war, does not work," Thayer said. Meanwhile, Chumbhon Lertrachakarn, from Thailand's National Security Council, defended Asean's policy on Burma, saying that the country is a product of British colonialism. Unlike Cambodia's Paris peace treaty, Asean has no treaty to pursue in Burma's case. "People forget about how Burma has come to be the way it is today.... except for treaties giving Burmese independence from British colonialism, there is no treaty for Asean to pursue," Chumbhon said. But Silverstein argued: "Burma has a colonial past, but it has contributed highly towards the education of the people and having some outstanding economists, whom have been driven from the country by the military dictatorship. "These are the same people who failed with socialism and capitalism. Why hasn't Burma exported rice this year? Why have they resorted to forced labour? I believe Asean has to ask itself these questions," Silverstein said. *******************************************