Ä WACO (1:382/804) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ WACO Ä Msg : 15 of 2006 Snt Loc From : Clay Conrad 1:382/91.49 29 Nov 93 21:11:20 To : Everybody. Even ewe Subj : Trials coming up... ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ FIJA meeting scheduled for Sunday, December 5 - At 11 A.M. to 1 P.M. a luncheon meeting of the Fully Informed Jury Association will be held at the Ramada Hotel, 111 Highway 410, San Antonio (right off the Nacodoches Exit). The topic for discussion will be the preparations for the upcoming Branch Davidian trial and the mailing of FIJA literature to the entire Central Texas jury pool for 1994. - Any people interested in learning more about FIJA, participating, discussing etc. are urged to attend. Call 210-491-6581 for more information, or in Austin call Clay Conrad at 512-326-5910. - This is going to be the beginning of the climax to everything you have heard and read about about the atrocities in Waco. Help make it a happy ending for the surviving victims who are going to be put on trial by a vindictive system out for revenge. - A special Federal judge has been arranged for this trial, from outside the district. A special prosecution team has been arranged, and they are busily trying to 'cook the books' on the evidence for this case. By the time the surviving victims get to trial, the feds will have successfully sealed off most of the information they will need to defend themselves. Only a jury dedicated to justice can insure that justice is done. Help us get these people that kind of jury. This is our chance to make a difference. - Funding is being found for the mailings. Workers are being sought to blanket the courthouse and prepare the mailings. There is alot to be done. You won't be bored!!! s Ä WACO (1:382/804) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ WACO Ä Msg : 46 of 2006 Cra From : Jeff Rudd 1:3644/10 12 Jan 94 06:23:08 To : All 13 Jan 94 02:47:18 Subj : Prime Time Live ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ ABC's Prime Time Live will have a feature on Waco "The Untold Story." This is supposed to air this Thurs (Jan. 13) 10pm Eastern. Please check local listings... . If you would like to contact Attorney General Janet Reno directly with your concerns, you may reach her office by phone at (202) 514-2001 or by fax (202) 514-2504 . I just love seeing (and hearing) all those FIJA and other people in every network shot in San Antonio spreading the truth and making some people aware! Way to go! . ...Clinton's first 100 days: 100 dead in Waco --- Simplex BBS (v1.07.00Beta [DOS]) * Origin: The Waco "Trial" - Bought & Paid Off By The Government!? (1:3644/10) Ä WACO (1:382/804) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ WACO Ä Msg : 54 of 2006 Snt Loc From : Terry Liberty-Parker 1:382/91.49 14 Jan 94 07:33:14 To : All Subj : San Antonio Protest Report ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ ============================================================================= * Forwarded by Terry Liberty-Parker (1:382/91.49) * Area : LPUS (LPUS) * From : ., 1:204/9 (13 Jan 94 20:52) * To : All * Subj : San Antonio Protest Report ============================================================================= From: /PN=Jay.Manifold/OU=TXIVGP.PO4/O=SMDALLAS/PRMD=LANGATE/ADMD=TELEMAIL/C=US/@spri nt.com To: libernet@dartmouth.edu, LPUS.Echo@dehnbase.fidonet.org, Date: 13 Jan 94 03:58:00 UT Approximately 50 persons gathered at the Marriott Courtyard in downtown San Antonio last Sunday evening. For lack of anybody better, I led a sort of organizing meeting in a conference room which the hotel was kind enough to provide for free. In my room, Francis Sommer (see below), Daniel Villarreal, and myself talked late into the night. The next morning a majority of those present at the meeting gathered near the southeast entrance of the Federal Courthouse in Hemisfair Park. There were contingents from Austin, Dallas, Fort Worth, and Houston, as well as the locals; the Fort Worth group wore LP T-shirts. One FIJA guy came from California. Don Henson and his wife drove in from El Paso. Don and I stood on a traffic island in the middle of the street, holding up a Gadsden flag (DONT TREAD ON ME, rattlesnake, etc.). Signs included: REMEMBER THE ALAMO REMEMBER GOLIAD REMEMBER WACO QUESTION AUTHORITY WHO ATTACKED WHOM? and everybody's all-time favorite, IS YOUR CHURCH ATF-APPROVED? We conducted numerous interviews with an overwhelmingly sympathetic crowd of reporters. The print reporters, in particular, are furious with the ATF. Larry Dodge got 3-4 minutes of air time on the 6 PM news on the ABC affiliate in Dallas on Monday evening. Carol Moore informs me that the protest was shown on at least 2 TV stations in Washington, DC that evening. Federal attempts to conceal the "remote location" from which jury pool members were bused to the courthouse DID NOT SUCCEED. Details later. Excerpts from _The Dallas Morning News_, Tue 11 Jan 94, p. 10A. "Judge cautions cult lawyers on self-defense issue" Continued from Page 1A. "About 30 protesters, some carrying placards with slogans such as "Who attacked who," demonstrated and distributed pamphlets attacking the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms outside the courthouse Monday morning. "One San Antonio resident, Francis Sommer, was arrested on a criminal trespass charge after repeatedly demanding to be allowed into the courtroom during jury selection. "An Associated Press reporter, Kelley Shannon, was escorted from the courthouse without explanation, and a _Houston Chronicle_ reporter was briefly denied entrance. "Texas AP bureau chief John Lumpkin, in a letter to U.S. District Judge Harry Hudspeth, who presides over the Western District of Texas, said: 'Ms. Shannon did not deserve the treatment she received this morning. From the beginning of this case, federal authorities have operated in such a manner to inhibit the free flow of information. "Judge Smith barred all public spectators and allowed only a pool of five reporters into the courtroom Monday, telling security officers that more spectators might intimidate potential jurors, said an official with the U.S. Marshals service." The above paragraphs are contiguous in the original article. Here's a message I received this morning from Daniel Villarreal: > Posted: Wed, Jan 12, 1994 9:01 AM CST > To: J.MANIFOLD/US.SPRINT > Subj: BD_TRIAL > > Some quotes of U.S. District Judge Walter S. Smith, Jr. from day one of > Branch Davidian trial, according to excerpts of information from Mr. Ken > Fawcett, who was one of five media members in courtroom... > > Judge discusses massive media coverage and strong public opinion, and, > either way, says "That's okay, it's the American way." > > In explaining his and the jury's job, he stated "If jurors don't follow > instructions, system would be no good." > > Judge talks about "constitutional guarantee to freedom of religion," and > religious diversity... he uses term "mainstream religion." Judge asks if > religion will prejudice anyone (noone raised their hand). > > Judge says that all defendants tried at once "to save money." > > Judge cautions prospective jurors about media inaccuracies and uses example > of San Antonio newspaper stating that judge is 54 years old, when he's "only > 53," and laughter erupts in courtroom. > > Judge says that it's important to have jury made up of "all kinds of > people." > > Judge says that NBC movie was "pure fiction." He also points out that > production started even before siege was over. > > Note: Juror candidates questioned about private gun ownership and if they > belonged to National Rifle Association. > > BTW, there were 84 people in jury pool. > > P.S. Jay, Francis got thrown in jail, she's _still_ not out yet. Will keep > you informed. Regards, Daniel > > ... FIJA National HQ (406) 793-5550 > FIJA in San Antonio (210) 491-6581 Ken Fawcett is the man who intercepted large amounts of BATF-incriminating video of the initial attack with his satellite downlink. Follow-up action: "reception" for Janet Reno when she speaks at the Loews Anatole Hotel on Stemmons Freeway in Dallas next Tuesday. See my other post. ______________________________________________________________________________ /* JAY.D.MANIFOLD@sprint.sprint.com | Revolution, or just resistance? */ /* P.O.Box 140577, Irving, TX 75014 | */ /* work phone (214) 791-8634 | --- RUSH, "The Enemy Within" */ -+- + Origin: Forwarded through Dehnbase Rainbow (1:204/9) ============================================================================= Hello All! Terry --- GoldED 2.41 * Origin: * Liberty BBS * Austin, Texas * (512) 326-9491 (1:382/91.49) Ä WACO (1:382/804) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ WACO Ä Msg : 63 of 2006 + 64 Snt Loc From : Terry Liberty-Parker 1:382/91.49 17 Jan 94 09:49:16 To : All Subj : BD trial ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ * Original Area: CIVLIB * Original From: Daniel Villarreal (1:382/91) * Original To : All (1:382/91.49) * Original Subj: BD trial 1/2 Lone Star FIJA For immediate release 1/03/94 Contact: Larry Dodge JUDGE ACCUSED OF EXCEEDING AUTHORITY IN BRANCH DAVIDIAN TRIAL > Larry Dodge, state coordinator for Lone Star FIJA, the Texas >affiliate of a national non-profit educational association known >as the Fully Informed Jury Association, today accused Judge >Walter Smith of exceeding his authority by restricting public >access to the names of all potential jurors in the federal jury >"wheel" for the Western District of Texas. > > Dodge said his organization ordinarily either mails or hands out >leaflets to potential jurors as they come to the courthouse on the >day of the trial. The leaflets explain that jurors have the right >to acquit a defendant, even when it's clear that he has broken the >law, if they believe the law itself is wrong or wrongly applied. > > When Jack DeVault, a FIJA activist from San Antonio, asked for >the complete, current federal jury wheel at the Federal District >Court Clerk's office today, he was told by DANIEL LOPEZ, on behalf >of that office, that pursuant to a court order by Judge Walter >Smith, the jury for the Branch Davidian trial was to remain >completely anonymous, and that this meant that the entire wheel >was currently inaccessible to the public. > > Dodge, who had asked Mr. DeVault to obtain the wheel when it >became clear that leafleting would be impossible and mailing would >be the only way to distribute the FIJA brochure to "anonymous" >potential jurors, who will be escorted into the courthouse, said >"By law, the judge can withhold the names of those eligible to be >selected for a particular trial, but there is no provision in the >law for him to make the entire wheel off-limits." > > Dodge claims that the FIJA brochure contains only general, well- >documented and true information about jury rights, that it is >intended only to promote justice by making all citizens aware >that "conscience is king" in the jury room, and does not urge any >particular jury to reach any particular verdict. "Either Mr. LOPEZ >misunderstood the court order, or the judge has exceeded his >authority here," Dodge said. "In any case, we at FIJA feel that >our freedom of speech has been infringed because public >information has been blacked out." ... FIJA in San Antonio (210) 491-6581 --- Maximus 2.00 * Origin: Liberty! BBS Austin, Texas (512) 326-9491 (1:382/91.49) Ä WACO (1:382/804) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ WACO Ä Msg : 64 of 2006 - 63 + 65 Snt Loc From : Terry Liberty-Parker 1:382/91.49 17 Jan 94 09:50:34 To : All Subj : BD trial ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ * Original Area: CIVLIB * Original From: Daniel Villarreal (1:382/91) * Original To : All (1:382/91.49) * Original Subj: BD trial 2/2 FIJA: Fully Informed Jury Association For immediate release 1/11/94 Contact: Larry Dodge >OBJECTIONS TO ANONYMOUS JURY FOR DAVIDIANS DENIED > > Larry Dodge, National Field Representative for the Fully Informed >Jury Association, says he's both angry and amused that federal >Judge Walter Smith would base his order for an anonymous jury in >the Branch Davidian trial on fear that the jurors might receive >a pamphlet that Dodge's organization publishes. > > "When the order was issued in early December, the reason Judge >Smith gave for an anonymous jury was that the jurors might be >threatened or intimidated by supporters of the Davidians -- as >if their sympathizers might pose some kind of danger to the >jury," Dodge said. > > Smith's order was met by objections from several of the >defendants, on the grounds that it would make them appear >dangerous in the eyes of the public and the jury, and therefore >might make it more difficult for them to get a fair trial. > > On December 30, the judge overruled their objections, stating >"The Court is not as concerned about the possibility of the >Defendants or their associates threatening the jury members," but >that he had issued the order to protect the jury panel from >information: "It [has] been reported that an organization plans >to attempt to hand out leaflets to potential jurors about how >they should ignore the law and follow their conscience." > > Dodge in turn filed motions asking Judge Smith reconsider his >decision, since FIJA is an educational association, which has no >plans to tell jurors what to do. In his motions, he explained that >the Fully Informed Jury Association tells jurors about their right >to vote on the verdict according to conscience, which courts only >rarely explain nowadays, but that FIJA "never takes sides." > > Dodge's motion, filed in the morning of January 10, was denied by >Judge Smith the same day. Smith's denial says that Dodge has "no >standing" to file such motions. > >Dodge insists that as a citizen, he does have standing, on the >grounds that all citizens have a right to know who among them will >be judging others in court. Dodge says that he fears that making >this one jury anonymous will block public access to the entire >master jury wheel for the San Antonio Division of the Western >District until the Davidians trial is finished, because he had >asked the U.S. District Court Clerk for that entire wheel and was >told that the order applied to "all of it," and not just to the >panel from which jurors for the Davidians trial would come. "Such >a total blackout of public information has got to be more >dangerous to the operation of a free society than any information >our pamphlets might convey," Dodge said. > > But he says he does not intend to pursue the issue any further >at this time. "I just think people should know that Judge Smith >is spending hundreds of thousands of their tax dollars for extra >security to protect these jurors, not from danger, but simply >from learning the whole truth about their rights, powers and >responsibilities," he said. "If it weren't so needless and so >aggravating, it would be humorous," he said. ... FIJA in San Antonio (210) 491-6581 --- Maximus 2.00 * Origin: Liberty! BBS Austin, Texas (512) 326-9491 (1:382/91.49) Ä WACO (1:382/804) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ WACO Ä Msg : 71 of 2006 Snt Loc From : Terry Liberty-Parker 1:382/91.49 20 Jan 94 07:32:26 To : All Subj : Trial: FIJA ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ ============================================================================= * Forwarded by Terry Liberty-Parker (1:382/91.49) * Area : LIBERTY (LIBERTY) * From : Libernet, 1:204/9 (19 Jan 94 14:48) * To : All * Subj : FIJA at B-D Trial; Janet Reno in Dallas ============================================================================= From: /PN=Jay.Manifold/OU=TXIVGP.PO4/O=SMDALLAS/PRMD=LANGATE/ADMD=TELEMAIL/C=US/@spri nt.com Date: 19 Jan 94 19:23:00 UT Excerpts from _The Dallas Morning News_, Wed 19 Jan 94: p. 29A RENO SAYS HOLISTIC APPROACH IS NEEDED IN WAR ON CRIME Continued from Page 25A "Outside the hotel, dozens of protesters lined Market Center Boulevard, carrying banners and signs and shouting at passing cars through bullhorns. "Many said they were there to protest Ms. Reno's decision last April to launch a tear-gas assault on the Branch Davidian cult complex during a standoff outside Waco. At least 80 people, 25 of them children, died when the compound burned. "'We feel that Janet Reno should have to stand trial for ordering the destruction of Texas citizens,' said David Hall, a member of Associated Conservatives of Texas. 'To burn innocent children is a felony.'" ______________________________________________________________________________ p. 30A AGENT ACKNOWLEDGES CHANGING STORY ON RAID HE TESTIFIES HE ERRED IN SAYING ATF FIRED FIRST "During almost 4 1/2 hours of cross-examination, Agent Ballesteros acknowledged that ATF agents never considered trying a peaceful execution of the search and arrest warrants and knew as they approached that they had lost the element of surprise. "Defense attorneys also grilled the agent about what they termed inconsistencies in statements he gave on Feb 28, Mar 10 and Sep 30 about the raid. "The agent acknowledged adding several details in his daylong trial testimony that he did not give in prior statements to local police, to Texas Rangers and even in pretrial testimony to US District Judge Walter Smith. "The new details included describing how he yelled 'search warrant' and approached Mr Koresh. They also included the sect leader's reaction to him and how he believed that the sect ambushed ATF agents. Also new was the description of voices yelling: 'Get that SOB off the porch.' "He may not have told Texas Rangers who interviewed him Mar 10 some details of what happened because, he said: 'I was under medication ... I'm not making excuses. I guess I just couldn't remember everything at the time.' "He also acknowledged to defense attorneys that his superiors lied to ATF officials in Washington about what happened, and he said the agency did not follow its own written procedures in investigating the incident. "Also Tuesday, Judge Smith announced that five jurors had received improper contacts by mail from a group called the 'Fully Informed Jury Association.' "He cautioned jurors not to read anything from the group, which tried to hand out pamphlets to potential jurors before the trial began. The pamphlets urge jurors to vote their consciences and instructs [sic] them that they have the right to acquit defendants if the jurors consider the laws broken unjust. "Judge Smith had ordered the names of jurors kept secret." ______________________________________________________________________________ /* JAY.D.MANIFOLD@sprint.sprint.com | Friend, we're ALL on probation. */ /* P.O.Box 140577, Irving, TX 75014 | */ /* work phone (214) 791-8634 | --- Oliver Lange, VANDENBERG */ -+- + Origin: Forwarded through Dehnbase Rainbow (1:204/9) ============================================================================= Hello All! Terry --- GoldED 2.41 * Origin: * Liberty BBS * Austin, Texas * (512) 326-9491 (1:382/91.49) Ä WACO (1:382/804) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ WACO Ä Msg : 80 of 2006 Snt Loc From : Terry Liberty-Parker 1:382/91.49 23 Jan 94 16:40:50 To : All Subj : FIJA ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ ============================================================================= * Forwarded by Terry Liberty-Parker (1:382/91.49) * Area : POLITICS (POLITICS) * From : Matthew Russotto, 1:109/70.4233 (20 Jan 94 18:38) * To : Larry Herron * Subj : BD trial 1/2 ============================================================================= On 1/17/94, Larry Herron distorted Daniel Villarreal's sage advice about BD trial 1/2: > Dodge claims that the FIJA brochure contains only general, well- > documented and true information about jury rights, that it is > LH> And we're supposed to just trust that that's all the brochure says? LH> It's obvious that FIJA believes the Branch Davidians innocent and are LH> trying to prejudice the potential jury. FIJA has been around and distributing this kind of information since long before February 28th, 1993. Sorry to disturb your little fantasy world with the facts. LH> This is the biggest crock of LH> shit I have ever heard. If the jury needs to be told anything about LH> what to take into account when they vote they should hear it from the LH> judge not a group who obviously has an ax to grind. And what good is a jury trial if the jury has blinders put on it by the judge? You might as well dispense with the fiction and let the judge decide the case. -+- MacWoof 1.5.3 + Origin: If at first you don't succeed, 'su root' & try again (1:109/70.4233) ============================================================================= Hello All! Terry --- GoldED 2.41 * Origin: * Liberty BBS * Austin, Texas * (512) 326-9491 (1:382/91.49) Ä WACO (1:382/804) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ WACO Ä Msg : 95 of 2006 From : Terry Goodman 1:102/837 13 Jan 94 11:22:00 To : All 16 Jan 94 23:15:10 Subj : WACO TRIAL 1-11-94 2/3 ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ [ ...Continued From Previous Message ] [Hey! _I_ didn't get an apology after I was thrown out...] - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Headline - PROTESTERS MAKE THEIR PRESENCE KNOWN Page 1 photo shows Frances V. Sommer being carried out of the court- house. [She was later arrested; see summary below] "Protesters shouted 'Vote your conscience!' at about 80 prospective jurors as they filed from two blue-and-white chartered buses into the federal courthouse at 8:30 a.m. Monday." The paper reports that more than 20 protesters were there. [I counted about 50...] Most of the protesters were from the Fully Informed Jury Association. No arrests at the protest, but one person was arrested after attempting to gain access to the courthouse. According to Larry Dodge of FIJA, they object to the judge's jury- anonymity order. "The association supports the concept that jurors have the right to weight the correctness of a law itself, rather than restrict their decision to whether a law was broken." "'If the jury is to be anonymous, what's to stop the government from padding the jury with government agents?'" Don Doig, national co- ordinator of FIJA Frances V. Sommer of San Antonio was arrested on a misdemeanor charge of criminal trespass, after she tried three time to enter the courthouse. [I saw another man dragged into the courthouse where film from his camera was confiscated after he took a photo of Frances being dragged out (the second time she tried to enter the courthouse). Funny how that didn't make the paper...] Protest signs included: Is Your Church BATF Approved? Remember the Alamo! Remember Waco! Jail Judge Smith For Jury Tampering Gary Dusljee of the FIJA, was asked by police to cease using a loud- speaker while jurors were taken into the courthouse. [Confirmed -- he was _asked_, not ordered. I was there.] Donald Hanson (El Paso) and Jay Manifold (Dallas) held a 'Don't Tread On Me' banner, based on the old U.S. flag design. Both are members of the Libertarian Party protesting government interference in individual religious liberty issues. Mark Lucas (Dallas) wore a T-Shirt depicting the Mount Carmel compound in flames and bearing the logo "FBI - Federal Bureau of Incineration". He was protesting federal coverups of the actions at Waco. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Page 4A Headline - IOWAN WHOSE MOTHER DIED IN STANDOFF DRAWN TO S.A. Human-interest story about Darren Borst, whose mother Mary Jean Borst died in the Mount Carmel fire. Darren was in basic training for the National Guard when the compound burned. His instructor excused him from training so that he could follow the news reports. He is a sophomore at Iowa State, intending to pursue a career in law enforcement, specifically the FBI. He is majoring in sociology, with a minor in criminology. "'They have to have some good people,'" he said. he also said "he would bring 'honesty, if nothing else' to the job." He plans to stay a few days, before he has to return to school. He believes, based on reports from news media, family and friends, that his mother was murdered by the FBI. He discounts claims of a suicide pact, sine the Davidians felt suicide to be an "'unpardonable sin.'" He is maintaining telephone contact with his father (who remarried) in Colorado, and with brothers Brad (Plattville, Colo) and Lance (Maryland). None were able to make the trip to San Antonio for the trial. Brad was a resident of the compound for a while, but got "fed up" and left. The parting was friendly, and Koresh gave Brad "$50, a guitar and an amplifier as a parting gift." This information from a telephone [ Continued In Next Message... ] --- TMail v1.31.5 * Origin: Los Angeles Valley College (818) 985-7150 (1:102/837) Ä WACO (1:382/804) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ WACO Ä Msg : 123 of 2006 From : Daniel Villarreal 1:387/31 23 Jan 94 23:56:56 To : All 25 Jan 94 23:16:52 Subj : 1/2BD Trial-1st week ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ From Mr. Ken Fawcett ... >First week of Waco Trial ends on positive note > >By Ken Fawcett - Special correspondent > >San Antonio > > The first week of proceedings in the trial of eleven Branch Davidians >ended on a positive note Friday when prosecution witnesses admitted >under cross examination that the crime scene may have been tampered >with before the Texas Rangers were allowed in to collect evidence. >Texas Ranger Fred Cummings could not explain how a portion of the front >door came up missing when the Rangers and DPS officials conducted their >search. Lawyers for the defense contend that the front door would prove >the Branch Davidian's contention that ATF fired the first shots in >the alleged February 28th firefight. > > Earlier in the day, Texas Ranger Ronny Griffith admitted under cross- >examination that a photo of a bullet hole above the driver's door of >one of the ATF pick-up trucks, depicted, in all likelihood, damage >from "friendly fire." Amid prosecution objections, defense attorney >Doug Tinker repeatedly raised the question of friendly fire, and >established that the ATF had placed their vehicle in direct line of >fire with ATF snipers posted in an undercover house about 500 yards >away. Also, an FBI agent admitted that some of the more than 200 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| >weapons submitted into evidence on Thursday were actually left on the ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| >scene by the ATF in the original attack. FBI ballistics expert James ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| >Cadigan had earlier presented the jury with a videotape depicting some >of the Branch Davidian rifles being fired at the FBI test range in >Quantico, West Virginia. The weapons appeared to be in remarkable >condition given the intensity of the April 19th blaze that >allegedly melted kitchen appliances and metal doors. > > When proceedings opened Monday it was clear that more representatives >of the media were present than could possibly be accommodated in the >courtroom. A media pool consisting of five members of the press was >formed. Gaining entrance to the Courtroom were Gigi- ABC, TV, Teresa >Talerico from the Waco Tribune, Rene Hayes of Reuters wire service, >Alex Marriot- CNN sketch artist, and Ken Fawcett, KLAV radio. >Approximately 80 members of the jury pool underwent final questioning >during voir dire, as about 50 protesters representing the Fully >Informed Jury Association (F.I.J.A.), and the Libertarian party >demonstrated outside. Because Judge Walter Smith, Jr. has ordered an >anonymous jury, prospective jurors were referred to by number >designation rather than name. Judge Smith explained to the jury >that he had "no indication that any of the defendants or their >families would ever be a threat to the jurors." On Tuesday 12 >jurors were seated and 6 alternate jurors were chosen, 8 women, >4 men. [continued] ... FIJA National HQ (406) 793-5550 FIJA in San Antonio (210) 491-6581 --- Maximus/2 2.01wb * Origin: The Rock BBS--Religion, Debate, Literature. (1:387/31) Ä WACO (1:382/804) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ WACO Ä Msg : 135 of 2006 From : Daniel Villarreal 1:387/509 26 Jan 94 01:03:00 To : All 28 Jan 94 20:27:12 Subj : 1/5_BD_Trial-week2 ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ GOVT. LINE FALLS APART AS SECOND WEEK OF WACO TRIAL ENDS 01/23/94 by Ken Fawcett Special Correspondent >SAN ANTONIO Testimony of ATF agents involved in the botched >February 28th raid on Mt. Carmel was delayed Tuesday, as judge >Walter Smith Jr. cautioned jurors not to read Fully Informed Jury >Association pamphlets that may have been received by as many as >six jurors over the weekend. He also instructed the jury not to >read signs or posters on the way into and out of the courthouse. > >The prosecution opened the morning session with the testimony of >agent Rolland Ballesteros, a five year ATF employee at the time of >the raid. Ballesteros detailed his attempt to assist fellow agent >Steve Steale in battering in the complex door. As he exited the >cattle trailer Ballesteros said he heard "popping" sounds, like >those made by a .22 cal. weapon, but could not determine the >source of the sounds.As he ran toward the front door he heard >screams coming from the upper floors of the church. With a >frontal photo of the assault displayed on the wall behind him, >agent Ballesteros pointed himself out as the armor clad agent >just to the right of the front door. "I was closest to the door >in this photo," he elaborated. Ballesteros explained he had his >Remington short-barrel 12 ga. shotgun fully loaded with six shells >and aimed in the general direction of the front door, and before >he could reach the front door David Koresh opened the door, >"smirked", and then slammed the door. He said he never saw any >bullets come through the door and that there were two additional >unarmed individuals standing behind Mr. Koresh. Much of >Ballesteros testimony was unclear or conflicting, but around this >time, he went on, he was hit in the left thumb by buckshot and >dived over a chicken wire fence into the dog pen. Agent Steve >Steale was also hit by buckshot according to an interview he gave >THE EAST TEXAN in April. > >Under intense cross examination from defense attorneys Steve >Rosen, Doug Tinker and Dan Codgell, Ballesteros admitted that his >story had changed three times since being interviewed by the Waco >Police Dept. and the Texas Rangers in March, and that a shooting >incident review team was never formed contrary to ATF regulations. > >Attorney Joseph Turner, representing Davidian Ruth Riddle, >attempted to get a clarification on the rules of engagement with >respect to any special rules that might be in effect given the >expected large number of women and children inside the center. >Ballesteros said he "doesn't know what the rules of engagement >are", but agreed that any firing should have been limited to a >specific target, and that failure to do so could escalate the >hostilities. Ballesteros expressed disenchantment with ATF >communications, answering a question about provided communications >devices he quipped supposedly, everything available." [continued] ... FIJA National HQ (406) 793-5550 FIJA in San Antonio (210) 491-6581 --- * Origin: Jar Link BBS (1:387/509) Ä WACO (1:382/804) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ WACO Ä Msg : 189 of 2006 Snt Loc From : Clay Conrad 1:382/91.49 31 Jan 94 22:55:18 To : Ewe Subj : FIJA Austin Needs Volunteers ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ HELP!!! Fija-Austin is looking for volunteers. We need volunteers for coordination, leafletting, mailing list management, fundraising, etc. HELP!!! - I am a full-time law student and Fija enthusiast, but I do not have time to do it all - or even most of it. Much of my work is spent doing legal research, and not membership or activist coordination. - Now that the Branch Davidian trial is underway, we need to get started on other trials in the Austin area. We have started to let people know who we are, and we need to turn up the activities. Fast! - ANYBODY who wants to be active in Fija-Austin is urged to call me at 512-326-5910 between 5 PM and 11 PM. We want to find some volunteer coordinators and activists to start getting Fija-Austin on line. - If we do our work now, we can ensure that by 1995 it will be impossible to find a jury in Travis County, TX that does not contain at least one member who knows their rights, powers and obligations as jurors. If we lose the momentum that we gained in San Antonio, we might be set back by years. - It is worthwhile to note that Fija will also be demonstrating for the Kay Bailey Hutchinson trial in Fort Worth. We can take advantage of our geographical proximity to two major Fija trials, and leverage this into some real success. But not unless we have the Fijactivists to do the leafletting and organization. - Call 512-326-5910 and tell me what you would like to do - volunteer for leafletting, attend a meeting, or coordinate the whole dang shooting match - this could be the opportunity you've been waiting for! - FIJA is the Fully Informed Jury Association. I doubt that anybody reading this message in THIS echo needs to be told who they are. They were the people that the Judge in the BD trial didn't want to see; they were the ones informing jurors of their rights to judge the law as well as the facts. --- Maximus 2.00 * Origin: Liberty! BBS Austin, Texas (512) 326-9491 (1:382/91.49) Ä WACO (1:382/804) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ WACO Ä Msg : 203 of 2006 Snt Loc From : Clay Conrad 1:382/91.49 02 Feb 94 23:17:56 To : All Subj : Reasoned response ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ A recent editorial in Reason magazine should be responded to by all libertarians, hemp advocates, gun owners and participants in the abortion debate. In it, editor Virginia Postrel decried jury nullification, saying it was 'just wrong'. She is just wrong, and she needs to hear it from us. - Find a copy of the most recent issue of Reason Magazine (March, 1994) and give them a piece of your mind about FIJA and jury rights. Let her know you trust twelve citizens chosen at random from the populace alot more than you trust 435 Congressmen, 100 Senators and the Tax Bill. Their address is: 3415 S. Sepulveda Blvd., Suite 400, Los Angeles, CA, 90034. Their fax number is: 310-391-2245. Be nice, be firm and be reasonable. Let's make sure this does not happen again! - Thanks! FIJA came through in San Antonio. We need to firm up support for fully informed juries, not let it be eroded where we should most expect it to be endorsed. --- Maximus 2.00 * Origin: Liberty! BBS Austin, Texas (512) 326-9491 (1:382/91.49) Ä WACO (1:382/804) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ WACO Ä Msg : 206 of 2006 + 225 From : Daniel Villarreal 1:387/31 02 Feb 94 01:51:04 To : All 03 Feb 94 12:23:00 Subj : BDTRIAL-w3-1/7 ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ 3rd week of testimony in Branch Davidian trial raises more questions by Ken Fawcett Special Correspondent >SAN ANTONIO > >The third week of this highly publicized case began Monday with >the testimony of ATF agents Larry Shivers, Gerald Petrilli, and >Gabe Gabriel. It was established that the Waco field office for >ATF was established after the February 28th raid and that agent >Davy Aguilera has been assigned there ever since. The most >intensive testimony was given by Agent Gabriel, a medic assigned >to the Dallas SRT, who served in the Texas Air National Guard as >a medic. He says he was the last person in the first row of cattle >trailer number one (the lead trailer). As he exited the trailer he >says he heard footsteps and saw the ground "jumping" in front of >him. He immediately ran to his right taking cover behind a white >van with agents Claire Rayburn and Barbara Maxwell. Some minutes >later he claims to have fired a single shot at one of the dogs in >a fence that was in his words "barking in a threatening manner." >Gabriel said the dog also appeared to be coming over a fence near >a red El Camino, but upon cross-examination, the dog's body is >shown in an aerial photo to be sprawled in the middle of the yard >nowhere near the fence. > >Several minutes into the shooting he ran to the rear of the red >and white pickup positioned in the area of the front door. He was >carrying his green and brown medical box (government's exhibit >#104) which was hit by gunfire as he ran. Realizing the agent he >was going to treat had died he drew his 9mm pistol and proceeded >to fire 50-60 rounds of ammo into the building without looking. >He testified that since he was not wearing a helmet he did not >want to raise his head over the side of the pickup bed so he >extended his arm over the side of the truck in a manner he >described as "point and shoot." > >Under intense cross-examination from defense attorneys Joseph >Turner and Mike DeGuerin, Gabriel admitted he hadn't learned the >technique in either the Guard or the ATF. It was also shown that >when asked by the Texas Rangers in March to identify areas in the >building where he perceived fire from he circled only one window, >identified as window #8, a second floor window at about the >middle of the building. After riding out of the driveway in the >back of an ambulance, Gabriel says he assisted two agents who >were administering CPR in the back of a black pickup to agent >Conway Lebleu. He also told the Rangers in March, that he almost >shot the TV man because he looked like one of the "bad guys." > >Government witness agent Sam Cohen testified that he heard >popping sounds as he exited the trailer, and that a .38 cal. >revolver stored in the pocket of his bullet proof vest was hit >and damaged by a bullet. He also said that he didn't remember >any rounds hitting the cattle trailer he was in. He attended >several peer-support sessions after the raid to "ventilate" >and "release anger." [continued] ... FIJA National HQ (406) 793-5550 FIJA in San Antonio (210) 491-6581 ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- Maximus/2 2.01wb * Origin: The Rock BBS--Religion, Debate, Literature. (1:387/31) Ä WACO (1:382/804) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ WACO Ä Msg : 403 of 2006 From : Terry Goodman 1:102/837 17 Feb 94 12:55:00 To : All 23 Feb 94 16:14:04 Subj : WACO JUSTICE 3/6 ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ [ ...Continued From Previous Message ] *David Thibodeau*: Earl Dunagan's April 18, 1993 affidavit does not list him as being seen carrying a gun during the February 28th shootout or standing guard after it. It is quite possible he was not prosecuted because his mother, Balenda Gamen, was the most vocal and articulate of the Branch Davidian family members. She appeared on numerous television shows and surely would have conducted a damaging media campaign against the government had her son been indicted. *Rita Riddle*: Earl Dunagan's April 18, 1993 affidavit *does* list Rita Riddle as having carried a gun on February 28th. She has been an active organizer for the defense since the fires. It is possible she was not prosecuted because her daughter Misty Ferguson was seriously disfigured during the April 19th fire and the government feared the girl would appear at the trial, displaying her wounds. Riddle's sister-in-law Ruth Ottman Riddle *has* been charged, even though Dunagan's April 18, 1993 affidavit mentions only that she was seen sewing tactical vests. It is possible she is being prosecuted because, as David Koresh's typist during his writing of the First Seal, she could testify convincingly about his efforts to finish his book so that he and his followers could leave Mount Carmel. She was a very effective spokesperson on television following the April 19th fire. -+- Pretrial Motions and Jury Selection -+- Certainly the early stages of the trial have only reinforced beliefs that the trial is rigged. A prejudiced judge seems to have "handpicked" the jury -- and done all he can to ensure the jury does not see any literature that might persuade them to "vote their conscience." [CfD -- According to *The International Workers Bulletin*, Feb. 7, 1994, "The proceedings in a San Antonio courtroom are held under tight rein by Judge Walter Smith... Smith, a former McLennan County Republican Party chairman, is the judge who approved the original search and arrest warrants justifying the February 28 raid."] In December of 1993, Judge Smith "ordered that jurors' identities be kept a secret and attorneys not talk to the media. [He] indicated that he is taking unusual steps to ensure the safety of the defendants, jury members and witnesses in the trial." {7}. Defense attorneys Joe Turner and Terry Kirk immediately filed an objection to Smith's order for an anonymous jury, believing it would hurt the jury's presumption of innocence. Their motion stated, "The prospective jury members are likely to assume that because their names are being kept secret, they must have reason to fear the defendant or her fellow Branch Davidians." {8}. In January Smith explained to the press he was concerned Branch Davidian jurors might be mistaken for "jurors in an organized crime trial going on at the courthouse." {9}. However, it turns out that the real reason Judge Smith demanded an anonymous jury was his fear that the jury would receive information from an organization called the Fully Informed Jury Association (FIJA). FIJA intended to send jurors leaflets containing general and well-documented information about jury rights -- including the right of the jury to find defendants innocent if they disagree with the law or feel that the government acted improperly. They had done the same thing in the Randy Weaver case and some believe this helped win acquital for Weaver. Smith had first taken the unusual step of restricting public access to the names of *all* potential jurors in the federal jury "wheel" for the Western District of Texas. On December 30, the judge admitted "The Court is not as concerned about the possibility of the Defendants or their associates threatening the jury members," instead, it was concerned with protecting the jury panel because, "It [has] been reported that an organization plans to attempt to hand out leaflets to potential jurors about how they should ignore the law and follow their conscience." {10}. Some believe Judge Smith silenced the eleven defendants' numerous attorneys so that their statements to the media could not affect potential jurors. Once the trial started, television news broadcasts showed some attorneys speaking freely to the press. However, in late January Judge Smith again barred defense attorneys from speaking to the press, saying "statements or information intended to influence public opinion regarding the merits of this case" would not be tolerated. Smith said he would monitor media sources and threatened daily contempt proceedings for any comments he found attorneys had made. {11}. This is just one more evidence of a prejudiced judge participating in a government coverup of crimes against the Branch Davidians. During the jury selection process, Judge Smith demanded defense attorneys submit questions to *him* and disallowed their directly questioning potential jurors. Instead, he asked the questions. The only choice left for the attorneys was a limited number of "strikes." [CfD -- I take this to mean a limited number of potential jurors can be automatically rejected, for any reason, by the attorneys.] This selection process makes it more difficult for the attorneys to weed out prejudiced individuals. {12}. [ Continued In Next Message... ] --- TMail v1.31.5 * Origin: Los Angeles Valley College (818) 985-7150 (1:102/837) Ä WACO (1:382/804) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ WACO Ä Msg : 406 of 2006 From : Terry Goodman 1:102/837 17 Feb 94 12:55:00 To : All 23 Feb 94 16:14:06 Subj : WACO JUSTICE 6/6 ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ [ ...Continued From Previous Message ] Foundation on behalf of Oliver Gyarfas, Sr. and Elizabeth Gyarfas. Their daughter Aisha Gyarfas Summers, 18, and her child Startle Summers, 1 year, died in the April 19th fire. According to Kirk D. Lyons, attorney and executive director of the Cause Foundation, the suits are intended less to compensate the victims of the government's excessive use of force, as they are to defend the Constitution from government encroachment and to see that another situation like Waco never happens again. The Foundation intends to file more suits after the conclusion of the Branch Davidian trials. Both suits should shed additional light on the governments' violations of rights, excessive force and coverup. -------------------------<< Notes >>----------------------------- {1} "Jury Told of Gunfire and Horror in Texas Siege," *New York Times*, January 13, 1994. {2} [The following is the exact reference given in the report. I am unable to determine what it refers to:] Hugh Aynesworth, January 7, 1994, A7. {3} Hugh Aynesworth, "Prosecution to begin for Davidian Cultists," *Washington Times*, January 7, 1994, A7. {4} Sue Anne Pressley, "An Opportunity for the Branch Davidians," *Washington Post*, January 9, 1994, A4. {5} "Prosecutors Expand Case Against Texas Cult," *New York Times*, August 22, 1993. {6} *New York Times*, January 15, 1994. {7} "Branch Davidian judge wants anonymous jury," *Washington Times*, December 14, 1993. {8} Associated Press wire story, December 29, 1993, 21:22 EST. {9} Associated Press wire story, January 11, 1994, 18:00 EST. {10} Lone Star FIJA Press Releases, January 3, 1994 and January 11, 1994. To contact Lone Star FIJA on this matter call Larry Dodge (214)357-0902 or Ruth Claus or San Antonio FIJA at (210)349-1897 {11} Mark Smith, "ATF agent admits he may have shot colleague," *Houston Chronicle*, January 26, 1994, 19A. {12} December, 1993, report from Larry Dodge of Lone Star FIJA. {13} Associated Press wire story January 11, 1994, 14:08 EST. {14} "Lawyer doesn't want to hear the term 'cult' at trial," *Houston Chronicle*, December 30, 1993. {7}[sic] "Branch Davidian judge wants anonymous jury," *Washington Government," *New York Times*, January 10, 1994, A10. {16} "An Anonymous Jury is Seated in Trial of Branch Davidians," *Washington Post*, January 12, 1994. {17} Richard Perez-Pena, "U.S. Braces for a New Test by Branch Davidians, in Court," *New York Times*, April 30, 1993. {18} Jennifer Lenhart, "Report on flawed raid may aid Davidians' defense, lawyer says," *Houston Chronicle*, October 1, 1993. {19} Sam Hone Verhovek, "Criticism of Raid Heartens Cult Members," *New York Times*, October 1, 1993. {20} Hugh Aynesworth, January 7, 1994, A7. {21} James L. Pate, "Waco's Defective Warrants," *Soldier of Fortune*, August, 1993, page 74. {22} Larry Pratt, Gun Owners of America Special Report, "Could a Search Warrant Be Your Death Warrant?," page 6. {23} Howard Schneider, "Waco Cult Lawyers Prepare Themselves for Long Legal Siege," *Washington Post*, March 26, 1993. {24} Andrew Blum, "Waco Tragedy Spawns Litigation," *National Law Journal*, May 17, 1993. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Report of Committee for Waco Justice can be obtained by writing to The Committee for Waco Justice, PO Box 33037, Washington, D.C. 20033. To my knowledge the cost is still $5. The Committee for Waco Justice can also be reached as follows: 1) Phone: Carol Moore 202/986-1847 Alan Forschler 202/797-9877 2) E-mail: Carol Moore cmoore@cap.gwu.edu Alan Forschler alanf@cap.gwu.edu ----------------------------------------------------------------- I encourage distribution of "Conspiracy for the Day." ----------------------------------------------------------------- If you would like "Conspiracy for the Day" (CfD) sent to your email address, just send a message to felix!cfd@cs.du.edu (alternate felix\!cfd@cs.du.edu) saying you would like to subscribe to CfD in the form "subscribe my-email@address". ----------------------------------------------------------------- * * Do not send to know for whom the Teel toils. * * * * He toils for thee. -- John Donne * * ----------------------------------------------------------------- Aperi os tuum muto, et causis omnium filiorum qui pertranseunt. Aperi os tuum, decerne quod justum est, et judica inopem et pauperem. -- Liber Proverbiorum XXXI: 8-9 -- Brian Francis Redman bigxc@prairienet.org "The Big C" -------------------------------------------------------------- "Justice" = "Just us" = "History is written by the assassins." -------------------------------------------------------------- --- TMail v1.31.5 * Origin: Los Angeles Valley College (818) 985-7150 (1:102/837) Ä WACO (1:382/804) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ WACO Ä Msg : 486 of 2006 Snt Loc From : Clay Conrad 1:382/91.49 01 Mar 94 22:45:40 To : All Subj : Was FIJA effective? ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ An excerpt from the New York Times article by Sam Howe Verhovek: - There was at least one other critical point of deliberation that influenced the final verdict, he said. Jurors were keenly aware that the maximum sentence on either murder or the conspiracy charge was life in prison, and by the end of their talks, they all agreed that no Branch Davidians deserved so harsh a punishment.... - Technically, according to U.S. District Judge Walter S. Smith Jr., consideration of possible punishments should not have entered the discussion at all; the jury's only job was to decide on guilty or not guilty votes on each count. - Still, in ignoring that aspect of the instructions, the jurors themselves face no sanctions, nor does their action provide any ground for either side to appeal the verdicts, legal experts said Monday. ------------------------- Remember that several jurors did receive FIJA brochures; we will never know whether these brochures had an impact on the outcome of the case. It is heartening, even considering the apparent harshness of some of the guilty verdicts that were handed down, that the jurors were more concerned with seeing justice done than they were with following the judges instructions, and considering the evidence that they were and were not allowed to see and consider, I think they probably did the best they could to be fair, evenhanded and just. - We should not fault the jurors for the manner in which the trial was conducted by the prosecution or the judge, or for the unfair advantages given the prosecution in any federal conspiracy trial. I think we should congratulate the jury for their sincere effort and integrity in the face of overwhelming pressure and scrutiny. The job of the jury is to provide justice by evaluating both the facts and the fairness of the law; I think that everything considered they did the best they could to do both. --- Maximus 2.00 * Origin: LibertyBBS Austin,Tx(512)326-9491 (1:382/91.49) Ä WACO (1:382/804) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ WACO Ä Msg : 802 of 2006 Snt Loc From : Terry Liberty-Parker 1:382/91.49 27 Mar 94 11:08:20 To : All Subj : FIJ Assoc & Waco Case ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ ============================================================================= * Forwarded by Terry Liberty-Parker (1:382/91.49) * Area : GUN_RIGHTS (GUN_RIGHTS) * From : Marc Visconte, 9:2100/0 (26 Mar 94 04:24) * To : Terry Liberty-parker * Subj : FIJ Assoc & Waco Case ============================================================================= TL>Thus, the jury believed that the BDs were justified in using self defense TL>but >that a few of them got carried away. Probably a pretty just verdict, in >that you had a hyper-funded prosecution, one of the most vindictive judges >in the nation, and a relatively hamstrung defense. - I am somewhat curious >what effect the Fully Informed Jury Association had on the verdict. I >believe that their efforts prevented what would have been a gross >miscarriage of justice. I haven't heard anything about them being involved in this case. Were they? Has there been any national mention of FIJA? AND, has anyone got their address/number, I don't have it since I moved. --- þ SLMR 2.1a þ "Educators": If you can't reach goals change 'em -+- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'j' + Origin: OLYMPUS BBS--NEWPORT NEWS, VA. 804-595-0117 SURVNET (9:1992/0) ============================================================================= Hello All! Please post, or foward, responses to the originating msg area, thanks. Terry --- GoldED 2.41 * Origin: *Liberty*AustinTx*(512)326-9491 (1:382/91.49) Ä WACO (1:382/804) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ WACO Ä Msg : 975 of 2006 + 1577 From : Jim Bailey 1:105/362 28 Apr 94 03:03:00 To : Ty Meissner 29 Apr 94 18:02:30 Subj : Batf ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ TM> What is much more intriguing to me, are the allegations TM> that some of the agents who lost their lives had been President TM> Clinton's personal bodyguards before he was elected. Is this really TM> true? If so, what's the tie-in with (the late) Vince Foster? TM> Ty Somewhere I read that during the campaign tour of Texas, the chopper that carried Clinton and Gore set down within range of the Branch Davidian compound(especially considering those Barrett rifles). If so I have questions. Did the Secret Service not know that the BD's were an armed, separatist group? If they did, did they not consider the BD's a threat? If not, why not? Both would seem derelictions of duty. Were the slain agents on that trip? * SLMR 2.1a * Jury Duty: Question the **Law** as well as the act. FIJA --- WM v3.10/92-0662 * Origin: NWCS Online + 18 Nodes + 13 Gig + (503) 620-5910 + (1:105/362.0) Ä WACO (1:382/804) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ WACO Ä Msg : 1002 of 2006 - 982 + 1072 From : Jim Bailey 1:105/362 07 May 94 00:50:00 To : Kevin Scanlon 08 May 94 21:55:40 Subj : AUSTIN: WacoDay Prote 2/ ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ KS> That is BULL____, how often do you see any POLICE agency go in and just KS> start shooting... You can't really beleive this crap can you?? According to batf's director "dynamic entry" had occurred 342 times in the prior 18 months. Batf made an armed assault, not an attempt to serve a warrant. Why don't you get a trial transcript? It's available even to the ignorant. * SLMR 2.1a * Jury Duty: Question the **Law** as well as the act. FIJA --- WM v3.10/92-0662 * Origin: NWCS Online + 18 Nodes + 13 Gig + (503) 620-5910 + (1:105/362.0) Ä WACO (1:382/804) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ WACO Ä Msg : 1083 of 2006 Snt Loc From : Terry Liberty-Parker 1:382/91.49 06 Jun 94 06:06:02 To : All Subj : Branch Davidian Sentence ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ * Originally By: Daniel Villarreal * Originally To: All * Originally Re: Branch Davidian update * Original Area: Civlib * Forwarded by : Blue Wave v2.12 The imprisoned Branch Davidians are still in Gatesville and awaiting sentencing in San Antonio on June 16 and 17. The pre-sentencing recommendation/report is 102 pages (signed by Judge Walter Smith, Jr.) and recommends the maximum penalty. Also recommended are fines and restitution. ... FIJA in San Antonio (210) 491-6581 -!- Maximus/2 2.01wb ! Origin: The Rock BBS--Religion, Debate, Literature. (1:387/31) SEEN!BY: 382/77 87 90 91 92 502 8000 387/31 301 400 525 1102 1103 396/1 SEEN!BY: 3615/50 51 PATH: 387/31 1102 3615/50 382/92 90 91 ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- Maximus 2.00 * Origin: LibertyBBS Austin,Tx(512)326-9491 (1:382/91.49) Ä WACO (1:382/804) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ WACO Ä Msg : 1105 of 2006 Snt Loc From : Terry Liberty-Parker 1:382/91.49 14 Jun 94 22:12:02 To : All Subj : Hospital Prepared for Burn Victems ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ ============================================================================= * Forwarded by Terry Liberty-Parker (1:382/91.49) * Area : DEBATE (DEBATE) * From : Daniel Villarreal, 1:387/31 (12 Jun 94 14:32) * To : Jim Bell * Subj : re:Mt.Carmel ============================================================================= In a message <02.06.94 13:11> to Albert Quinn, Jim Bell (1:105/101.0@fidonet) typed ... [stuff deleted] JB>One obvious piece of evidence that you are forgetting is that JB>the BATF invited the news media to show up and see their JB>planned assault. The fact is that the BATF DID NOT WANT the JB>assault to be an "ordinary" warrant search: They wanted JB>gunfire, and they wanted flash-bang grenades to be thrown. JB> JB>IT WAS ALL PLANNED TO OCCUR THE WAY IT DID! [stuff deleted] The Parkland Memorial Hospital in Dallas filed a suit in U.S. District Court last year, suing the federal gov't to pay for for treating several Mt. Carmel survivors. According to Ron Cole, Parkland director Tom Cox received a phone call by the FBI at 6:00 a.m. on April, 19, 1993 and was asked how many beds the hospital's burn unit had. He is said to have been told to prepare for burn victims. Parkland is said to have complained that FIB had stationed fire-fighting vehicles near Mt. Carmel for the entire seige, only to send them away before the fire. Remember, sentencing is scheduled for June 16 and 17 in San Antonio. ... FIJA in San Antonio (210) 491-6581 -+- Maximus/2 2.01wb + Origin: The Rock BBS--Religion, Debate, Literature. (1:387/31) ============================================================================= Hello All! Terry --- GoldED 2.41 * Origin: *Liberty*AustinTx*(512)326-9491 (1:382/91.49) Ä WACO (1:382/804) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ WACO Ä Msg : 1126 of 2006 From : Daniel Villarreal 1:387/31 17 Jun 94 02:29:56 To : All 18 Jun 94 13:50:12 Subj : BD sentencing ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ June 16, 1994 Jury foreperson Sarah Bain was on evening news yesterday asking Judge Smith for leniency in sentencing. She had written Smith a letter stating that It's unfathomable that Ruth Riddle is "facing five years, much less 30 years in prison." (Also see San Antonio Express-News, June 15, 1994, page 16A.) This morning, Judge Walter Smith, Jr. asked all the defendants if they had had the opportunity to read the pre-sentencing report. Livingston Fagan and Kevin Whitecliff replied that they had not. Judge Smith pondered for a moment and admonished them by saying that court would be recessed for an hour so that Fagan and Whitecliff would be able to read the reports "as they should have done." Defense attorney Terrence W. Kirk (co-counsel for Ruth Riddle) alluded to U.S. vs. Korea-Ventura stating that prosecution can't argue the issue of charging some of the Branch Davidians as using machine-guns when this wasn't part of the original indictment (and there is only a superceding indictment, which some would say isn't really a valid grand jury indictment, since only the signature of the jury foreperson is on the "indictment." Several other law cases are cited and Kirk states that a jury has to decide the issue. Furthermore, the defendants must know that gun used is a machine-gun. Kirk has arguement with "fortress theory," stating that this is only used in drug cases. In essence, if one has a machine-gun, then under this theory, someone else also has access to the same firearm, which, by the way, in the jury charge (page 48) includes a grenade, BUT NOT A MACHINE-GUN. At any rate, since several individuals were acquited of all charges, this arguement can't hold water. Kathryn Schroeder would not say that she had passed out machine-guns. Kirk states that Ruth should receive 5- year sentence, not a 30-year sentence. Defense attorney Steven R. Rosen states that his clients (Fagan and Whitecliff) are "not guilty of any offense." Defense attorneys all present objections to court regarding pre-sentencing reports, and Smith virtually overrules ALL objections to correct mistakes by probation officers who wrote reports. Objections were also made simply to set the record straight. Judge Smith overrules many of these objections simply by saying that "that wouldn't affect the sentence." Defense attorney Rentz objects to use of term "cult" in pre-sentencing report... overruled by judge Smith ! Defense attorneys plead for no restitution or forfeiture since their clients are destitute. Since defendant Craddock didn't harm anyone, he should therefore not be liable for any damages. Smith brings up issue of forfeiture of any earnings and will discuss tomorrow. Even though conspiracy to murder federal agents were thrown out BY A JURY for all defendants, Fatta is declared to have conspired to murder federal agents in pre-sentencing report !!! Issue of double jeopardy is also brought up by defense attorneys. Defense attorney Mike DeGuerin states that Branch Davidian faith is about an "individual relationship to God," and that it is based upon the Bible. Prosecutor Jahn had brought up in the trial that it was alleged that his client had believed that "in order to die for God, you had to be willing to kill for God," and DeGuerin states that even if some one were to have believed that, that is no indication that Paul Fatta believed that, and that Judge Smith should listen to Fatta speak. Time for Branch Davidians to present allocution and Judge Smith states that "allocution is a right, but not an unlimited right," and that he can "limit content," i.e. "only issues relevant to sentencing." These are just basic overviews of allocution statements. First to speak is Livingston Fagan. He states that he believes beyond the shadow of a doubt that he and everyone else there is innocent. States that manslaughter charge was added after defense rested their case. Mentions that he does not wish to be distanced from David Koresh and alludes to historical religious events which occurred almost 2000 years ago. Mentions wife and family which died. Livingston is quite organized and eloquent. Audience claps and many "Amens" are heard when he is finished... Judge Smith admonishes audience and scowls. Jaime Castillo discusses his basic overall idea of religious purpose and his personal approach to seeking the truth in the seven seals. In refuting people who speak negatively of David, "if we're so deceived, show me the truth." Renos Avraam questions jurisdiction of Judge Smith, asking him if he is indeed a constitutional article 3 judge. Smith replies that he is. Renos states that his rights were violated and also states that helicopters fired and that he wishes to introduce evidence that gov't witnesses perjured themselves. Discusses foreign agent aspect of the BATF, since they are under the auspices of the International Monetary Fund, gives cites. Alludes to "one world gov't." Smith interrupts. States that Clinton signed waiver on Posse Comitatus act. States that FBI and BATF "fed" media and that prosecutor Jahn was involved in stand-off. Kevin Whitecliff states that he was at Mt. Carmel because "someone had message" and that he couldn't refute it. States that helicopters fired upon Mt. Carmel. Discusses family awaiting him. Paul Fatta asks where are the people in charge of the agencies involved and also questions why did gov't assault such a small group. States that he/they have right to their religion. All who spoke did so with sincerity, and their humanity, which the gov't tried to strip from them over the course of their incarceration, shone through. Sentencing is expected to end before noon tomorrow. ... FIJA in San Antonio (210) 491-6581 --- Maximus/2 2.01wb * Origin: The Rock BBS--Religion, Debate, Literature. (1:387/31) Ä WACO (1:382/804) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ WACO Ä Msg : 1255 of 2006 Snt Loc From : Terry Liberty-Parker 1:382/804 15 Aug 94 13:28:54 To : All Subj : XPOST: Text Wars & Sources ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ ============================================================================= * Forwarded by Terry Liberty-Parker (1:382/804) * Area : POLITICS (POLITICS) * From : Mike Pietrantoni, 1:278/307 (10 Aug 94 18:03) * To : Daniel Villarreal * Subj : Mt. Carmel ============================================================================= On 08-07-94 Daniel Villarreal wrote to Mike Pietrantoni: MP> Daniel, First allow me to thank you for your dedication in MP> posting the vast amount of Waco material in the past year MP> plus. It was invaluable to me in doing the research for the MP> article that I wrote in ASG in Dec. 93. DV> Thanks for the kind words. I learned a lot from reading your DV> latest article in the August issue of ASG (info on asset DV> forfeiture laws). With many humble thanks Daniel. I write the Survival Line column also and finally after 114 monthly columns my editor finally decided to put my byline on it. :) MP> Regarding your correspondence with Mr. Nguyun. Its a lost MP> cause and simply not worth your time and energy, IMO. DV> Well... Danny is probably a product of Meriwetheresque DV> history teachers, maybe he needs help learning about real DV> life. Unfortunatly I'm of the impression that DN is of the same (or at least close) generation as WM. They are both old enough to know better but choose not to . MP> I assume you are aware of the David Hall, KPOC (Oklahoma), > MP> documentary that will be run on cable on or about Sep.19th. MP> Just heard him on Tom Valentine last evening 8/2. Incredible MP> information, regarding the cyanide poisoning of the BD's by MP> the CS gas. MP> Anyway I'm trying to find out if a local New York City cable MP> channel will be carrying the Sep. 19th docu. No luck so far. MP> But maybe I'll call KPOC. DV> You could always write or call the Mt. Carmel Survivors DV> for information... DV> Mt. Carmel Survivors DV> 3416 S. 3rd Street DV> Waco, Texas 76706 DV> (817) 756-6029 You know I forgot about them. If KPOC can't help I'll try the MCS. Either way when I get more info I'll post it too you. MP> Question for you. The Fawcett book, Blind Justice, that you MP> mentioned. Do you have an address and/or phone number for MP> Electropress? DV> Please send check or money order for 8.50 (postage included) DV> to: ELECTROPRESS 124 LINDA LANE ROYSE CITY, TEXAS 75189 Thanks much Daniel. I will order it in a week or so. As I said before if enough of us keep at it, maybe we can get the truth out before Waco-type atrocities become the routine rather than the exception. I don't know that I have much hope, as it may very well be too late. Either way I'll go down fighting. Take care. Mike Pietrantoni ...Janet Reno - Big Brother in drag... ... FIJA in San Antonio (210) 349-1897 -+- + Origin: The Rock BBS--Religion, Debate, Literature. (1:387/31) ============================================================================= Hello All! Terry --- GoldED 2.41 * Origin: *Liberty*AustinTx*(512)326-9491 (1:382/804) Ä WACO (1:382/804) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ WACO Ä Msg : 1283 of 2006 - 1281 + 1290 From : Joe Sylvester 1:382/87 06 Sep 94 20:42:42 To : All 07 Sep 94 08:49:54 Subj : Re: "Vote Them Out"? Yeah, Sure... ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ .REPLYTO 1:382/87.0 UUCP .REPLYADDR sylvest@dseg.ti.com .Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns From: sylvest@dseg.ti.com (Joe Sylvester) .Subject: Re: "Vote Them Out"? Yeah, Sure... .Message-Id: .Sender: usenet@skopen.dseg.ti.com .Reply-To: sylvest@dseg.ti.com .Organization: Texas Instruments Inc. Date: Wed, 7 Sep 1994 01:42:43 GMT In article MoL@netcom.com, decastro@netcom.com (Richard A. De Castro) writes: > >I don't understand this either. The current (new) Soldier of Fortune >magazine has an article on this part of the Waco travesty, and I still >don't understand it. > >Could someone who has been following the Waco travesty and understands >the legal issues involved in the judge setting aside the jury's verdict >please explain it?? > >TIA > > >-- >============================================================================ >decastro@netcom.com Warning: I am a trained professional. No, Really! >Rick N6RCX EMT-A ATP MA Do Not try this yourself - it could get ugly...... >Richard A. De Castro - As long as the Government pretends to protect me, > I'll pretend to feel safe - NOT! > -Don't Tread On Me!- >============================================================================ Well I have read the SOF article, plus much info here on the 'net, so I'll give it a try: The judge did not really set aside an aquital, rather he first set aside a conviction on a charge and then reversed himself at the behest of the prosecution (government). The charge was, I think, using firearms in the commission of.. or conspiracy to... Since the first charge was a predicate to the later charge, it is logical that one cannot be a party to a conspiracy to commit.. or use firearms in.. if ... never occured! There is apparently precedent for throwing out the dependent charge if the jury brings in an inconsistent verdict. The jury for its part, understood the judge's instructions to require conviction on the firearms charge if it was shown that they had firearms! This was later shown to be a misunderstanding. (More grist for the FIJA (fully informed jury association(?)) Now if one wanted to talk about the equity of the sentences.. that's crock of a different oder. Joe Sylvester |The Opinions Expressed Above Member Group Technical Staff | Are Mine, Only Mine and Defense Systems and Electronics Group | NOT Texas Instrument's Texas Instruments, Plano Texas | Comprende Amigo?...Bueno! DON'T TREAD ON ME --- * Origin: Austin InfoMail Association <-> Internet Gateway (1:382/87.0) Ä WACO (1:382/804) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ WACO Ä Msg : 1359 of 2006 From : Daniel Villarreal 1:387/31 07 Sep 94 00:34:40 To : Dean Nusholtz 09 Sep 94 05:55:54 Subj : 2/3re:Mt.Carmel ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ (continued) In a message <28.08.94 16:02> to Daniel Villarreal, Dean Nusholtz (1:120/125@fidonet) typed ... DN>We also know that Koresh took the time and effort to train even DN>the children in the use of arms. Please post a quote. DN>We even saw further evidence of his true nature during the DN>seige where he expressed his desire to die a martyr, 'The DN>Washington Post March 9, '93 pA1 col 5. So there was reason DN>to suspect a hostile reception. Please post a quote. Dean, you should know to include quotes, whatsa matter, got nothing to support your allegations ? DN> DV> The FBI gassed them. DN> DN>Eventually this is true, but not until after waiding through at DN>least fifty days of negotiations. Alan A. Stone, M.D. writes: "By March 21st, the FBI was concentrating on tactical pressure alone. . .This changing strategy at the compound from (1) conciliatory negotiation to (2) negotiation and tactical pressure and then to (3) tactical pressure alone." (JDR:Stone:10)--- From the Report of the Department of the Treasury on the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms Investigation of Vernon Wayne Howell also known as David Koresh, September, 1993. All references from the report will be included within the text, with the page number after the colon, e.g., (TDR:#).--- (pg. 71, The Massacre of the Branch Davidians: A Study of Government Violations of Rights, Excessive Force and Cover Up, Carol Moore et al, available from Committee For Waco Justice, P.O. Box 33037, Washington, D.C., 20033) DN>Remember Koresh had full media coverage 'Los Angeles Times DN>April 8, '93 pA16 col 1. Media coverage that was very biased. Why didn't the mass media show or discuss the vidoetape of the inside ? Why didn't they present more FACTS ? DN>He also had lawyers representing him during the seige 'The New DN>York Times March 31, '93 pA10(N)' & 'The Los Angeles Times April DN>2, '93 pA4 col 1.' He had a lawyer. So what ? DN>But from the very begining Koresh wanted to end it all in a DN>fire fight and broke promise after promise, 'Los Angeles Times DN>March 25, '93 pA15 col 1.' Which promises ? DN> DV> In this country we are supposed to be considered innocent DN> DV> until proven guilty. DN> DN>What can I say, talk to Reagan. Reagan wasn't in charge. DN> DN> Instead, he preferred to get his stupid religious DN> DN> mysticism on the radio. DN> DN> DV> "Guffaw, knowing nothing seems to be a prerequisite for DN> DV> some to express their opinions." DN> DN>You may read about his live interview by CNN during the standoff DN>in the Washington Post March 1, '93 pA7 col 1. [stuff deleted] So what does that have to do with the taped message ? (continued) ... FIJA in San Antonio (210) 349-1897 --- Maximus/2 2.01wb * Origin: The Rock BBS--Religion, Debate, Literature. (1:387/31) Ä WACO (1:382/804) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ WACO Ä Msg : 1635 of 2006 From : Gary Steinweg 1:202/344 10 Sep 94 06:12:02 To : All 16 Sep 94 16:12:46 Subj : Waco Investigation 077 ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ THE MASSACRE OF THE BRANCH DAVIDIANS A STUDY OF GOVERNMENT VIOLATIONS OF RIGHTS, EXCESSIVE FORCE AND COVER UP [PLEASE ADDRESS ANY COMMENTS TO **ALL**, NOT TO THE SENDER] However, it turns out that the real reason Judge Smith demanded an anonymous jury was his fear that the jury would receive infor- mation from an organization called the Fully Informed Jury Association (FIJA). FIJA intended to send jurors leaflets con- taining general and well-documented information about jury rights - including the right of the jury to find defendants innocent if they disagree with the law or feel that the government acted improperly. They had done the same thing in the Randy Weaver case and some believe this helped win acquittal for Weaver. Smith had first taken the unusual step of restricting public access to the names of all potential jurors in the federal jury "wheel" for the Western District of Texas. On December 30, the judge admitted "The Court is not as concerned about the possibil- ity of the Defendants or their associates threatening the jury members," instead, it was concerned with protecting the jury panel because, "It [has] been reported that an organization plans to attempt to hand out leaflets to potential jurors about how they should ignore the law and follow their conscience."[398] Some believed Judge Smith silenced the eleven defendants' numerous attorneys so that their statements to the media could not affect potential jurors. Once the trial started, television news broadcasts showed some attorneys speaking freely to the press. However, in late January Judge Smith again barred defense attorneys from speaking to the press, saying "statements or information intended to influence public opinion regarding the merits of this case" would not be tolerated. Smith said he would monitor media sources and threatened daily contempt proceedings for any comments he found attorneys had made.[399] This is just one more evidence of a prejudiced judge participating in a government coverup of crimes against the Branch Davidians. During the jury selection process, Judge Smith demanded defense attorneys submit questions to him and disallowed their directly questioning potential jurors. Instead, he asked the questions. The only choice left for the attorneys was a limited number of "strikes." This selection process makes it more difficult for the attorneys to weed out prejudiced individuals.[400] Meanwhile the Dallas Morning News filed a motion seeking to overturn Smith's decision to bar most of the media and public during juror questioning, stating the public and the media have a "consti- tutional right of access to the examination of potential jurors in a criminal trial."[401] The fact that Judge Smith interviewed potential jury members in his shirtsleeves, without his judicial robes, so that he would not "intimidate" them was widely reported by the press. Jury selection was complete in two days - an unusually short period for such a complicated trial with so many defendants- -and the trial began on January 12, 1994. Should any Branch Davidians be convicted, the restrictive jury selection process might provide grounds for appeal. Paul Fatta's attorney Mike DeGeurin requested Judge Smith prohi- bit prosecutors and witnesses from using the word "cult" because it has a "negative and dangerous" connotation that might influence a jury against the defendants. The motion noted that Assistant U.S. Attorney J. Ray Jahn has already stopped using the word.[402] The judge rejected the request.[403] Defense lawyers then asked Judge Smith to prohibit prosecutors from using preju- dicial words like "compound," "Ranch Apocalypse," and "Mighty Men."[404] We assume he also rejected this request because some of the terms have been used in the trial. As in all trials, the prosecution will first present its evidence of the defendant's guilt. Defense attorneys will have the oppor- tunity to cross-examine all witnesses. Assuming the case is not dismissed for lack of evidence, the defense will then present its case. The prosecutors will also have the opportunity to cross- examine defense witnesses, including the defendants, should they decide to testify. Below is an outline of the expected cases to be presented by the prosecution and the defense - and some questions likely to be asked and points raised in cross- examinations. ___ X SLMR 2.1a X --- Maximus/2 2.01wb * Origin: OS/2 Desktop * Escondido, CA * 619-743-2511 * V.FC (1:202/344) Ä WACO (1:382/804) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ WACO Ä Msg : 1665 of 2006 From : Gary Steinweg 1:202/344 10 Sep 94 06:29:28 To : All 16 Sep 94 17:11:58 Subj : Waco Investigation 105 ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ THE MASSACRE OF THE BRANCH DAVIDIANS A STUDY OF GOVERNMENT VIOLATIONS OF RIGHTS, EXCESSIVE FORCE AND COVER UP FOOTNOTES 393/ "Prosecutors Expand Case Against Texas Cult," New York Times, August 22, 1993. 394/ New York Times, January 15, 1994. 395/ "Branch Davidian judge wants anonymous jury," Washington Times, December 14, 1993. 396/ Associated Press wire story, December 29, 1993, 21:22 EST. 397/ Associate Press wire story, January 11, 1994, 18:00 EST. 398/ Lone Star FIJA Press Releases, January 3, 1994 and January 11, 1994. To contact Lone Star FIJA on this matter call Larry Dodge (214)357-0902 or Ruth Claus or San Antonio FIJA at (210)349-1897. 399/ Mark Smith, "ATF agent admits he may have shot colleague," Houston Chronicle, January 26, 1994, 19A. 400/ December, 1993, report from Larry Dodge of Lone Star FIJA. 401/ Associated Press wire story January 11, 1994, 14:08 EST. 402/ "Lawyer doesn't want to hear the term `cult' at trial," Houston Chronicle, December 30, 1993. 403/ Sam Howe Verhovek, "Texas Sect Trial Spurs Scrutiny of Government," New York Times, January 10, 1994, A10. 404/ "An Anonymous Jury is Seated in Trial of Branch Davidians," Washington Post, January 12, 1994. 405/ Richard Perez-Pena, "U.S. Braces for a New Test by Branch Davidians, in Court," New York Times, April 30, 1993. 406/ Jennifer Lenhart, "Report on flawed raid may aid Davidians' defense, lawyer says," Houston Chronicle, October 1, 1993. 407/ Sam Hone Verhovek, "Criticism of Raid Heartens Cult Members," New York Times, October 1, 1993. 408/ Hugh Aynesworth, January 7, 1994, A7. 409/ New York Times, September 12, 1993. 410/ Associated Press wire story, October 2, 1993, 12:18 EDT. 411/ BATF information submitted to June 9, 1993 House Appropriations subcommittee hearing, p. 188. 412/ Richard Perez-Pena, "U.S. Braces for a New Test by Branch Davidians, in Court," New York Times, April 30, 1993. 413/ Michael Hedges, "FBI fined for delays in trial of Weaver," October 29, 1993. 414/ James L. Pate, "Waco's Defective Warrants," Soldier of Fortune, August, 1993, page 74. 415/ Larry Pratt report, page 6. 416/ Houston Press, July 22, 1993. 417/ Richard Perez-Pena, April 30, 1993. 418/ Maury Povich television show, November 8, 1993. 419/ Howard Schneider, "Waco Cult Lawyers Prepare Themselves for Long Legal Siege," Washington Post, March 26, 1993. 420/ Sam Hone Verhovek, "Texas Sect Trial Spurs Scrutiny of Government," New York Times, January 10, 1994, A10. 421/ Andrew Blum, "Waco Tragedy Spawns Litigation," National Law Journal, May 17, 1993. 422/ Associated Press wire story, May 11, 1993, 10:25 EDT. 423/ "Philadelphia faces trial in MOVE fire suit," Washington Times, January 5, 1994, A9. 424/ Leonard Zeskind, "And Now, The Hate Show," New York Times, November 16, 1993. ___ X SLMR 2.1a X --- Maximus/2 2.01wb * Origin: OS/2 Desktop * Escondido, CA * 619-743-2511 * V.FC (1:202/344) Ä WACO (1:382/804) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ WACO Ä Msg : 1749 of 2006 Snt From : Libernet-D 1:204/9 19 Sep 94 14:51:04 To : All 20 Sep 94 00:22:48 Subj : Clarifications re Larry Dodge, Etc. ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ From: "/G=Jay/S=Manifold/OU=TXIVGP.PO4/"@SMDALLAS.LANGATE.sprint.com To: LPUS.Echo@dehnbase.fidonet.org Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 15:44:00 -0400 Cc: JAY.D.MANIFOLD@sprint.sprint.com, libernet-d@Dartmouth.EDU Since I seem to be in a position to clear a few things up ... On 16 Sep 94 at 23:37, Clay Conrad wrote: > Any party that can attract Larry Dodge and Ron Paul away from the LP has > something going for it that is pretty strong... Ron Paul has bounced around quite a bit since '88. Larry Dodge attended the most recent Dallas County LP meeting (Mon 12 Sep) and spoke about some cases with which FIJA is involved. The next day I helped him round up some software to resurrect FIJA's operation in Montana, which was temporarily out of commission due to a lightning strike --- fried their PC. I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that Larry and I get along famously. His problem doesn't seem to be with the state or local LP here. > One Larry Dodge is worth the whole National Committee, and Ron Paul is > probably worth about 6 state parties... and not necessarily the 6 worst! I > wonder how many others will follow... I wonder if I will. Analogizing Larry to NatCom may not be appropriate. Larry is very good at what he does, which is not at all like what National does. I have no recollection of encountering or speaking with Ron Paul since the '88 campaign. With due respect, Ron's been gone for a long time. And also with due respect, Clay, you might mention any recent activities of your own with the Travis County LP. If you've got any free time --- and I can appreciate that you might not, what with law school --- I'm sure they can use you. Call Wendell Weatherford. OK, next, on 18 Sep 94 at 19:01, Barry L. Moore, who has the remarkable ID of <"guineo::moore"@scapas.enet.dec.com>, wrote: > I have not in the past 2 years seen ONE Dasbach news release quoted in the > press in Dallas. This is probably my fault as much as anybody's. Several points: 1. They're written by Bill Winter, and they're a sight better than what we used to get. 2. The way they get to the Dallas media is through me, slowly. By the time I get them downloaded off LPUS or Libernet to my home PC and broadcast out through my fax board, they're at least a day old, sometimes two or three. I send them out not because I really expect a response, but just to keep our hand in and remind the media of our continued existence. 3. Our success with the print media here has been sporadic. Historically we've done much better with radio. I have a decent working relationship with KRLD (for non-natives, this is the big all-news station in Dallas; 1080 AM) and have gotten on several times; so have a few other Libertarians. If we can come up with something visual, we can get TV fairly easily as well; see Waco. 4. The print media, by which I mean the _Dallas Morning News_, is not crazy about us but will respond properly if sufficiently harassed. They invited our candidates to speak with their editorial board again this year, and I am told that the meetings went well. I am attempting to convey an image of responsible behavior to Rena Pederson there (it's OK; she doesn't know what I look like). :) Jay Manifold Chairman, Libertarian Party of Texas ______________________________________________________________________________ /* JAY.D.MANIFOLD@sprint.sprint.com | An armed society is a polite society. */ /* P.O.Box 140577, Irving, TX 75014 | */ /* work phone (214) 791-8634 | --- Robert Heinlein */ --- * Origin: Forwarded through Dehnbase Rainbow (1:204/9) Ä WACO (1:382/804) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ WACO Ä Msg : 1865 of 2006 From : Libernet-D (Brandon Ray) 1:204/9 29 Sep 94 18:39:08 To : All 30 Sep 94 05:00:20 Subj : Re: What if juries nullify good laws? ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ From: Publius@chop.isca.uiowa.edu (Brandon Ray) Date: Thu Sep 29 19:05:01 1994 Eugene Volokh writes: > >Charles Hazlett writes: > >> Businesses are generally the defendant, ergo,...has much to >> gain.... [from FIJA] > > Oh, I didn't realize this extended to civil lawsuits involving >private parties. That would make it *really* interesting. > > Incidentally, in civil lawsuits would the jury be only allowed to >nullify in favor of the defendant? Or could it also nullify defenses >that it thought were wrong? If it's pro-defendant-only, do you think >juries will stick by that? > >-- Eugene Volokh, Acting Professor, UCLA Law School >[Granting unlimited right to copy this, not for profit >and with attribution. All other rights reserved.] I didn't think it extended to civil action, either. It is supposed to be a bulwark against the government using criminal trials to extend tyranny (as for example in Waco). Nevertheless, there are times when businesses are defendants in such trials, and at least some of the time the gov't claims to be pursuing some public interest or other -- such as labor laws, environmental laws, etc. --- * Origin: Forwarded through Dehnbase Rainbow (1:204/9)