Transcript of Larry King's Interview with Ross Perot Here is the text of CNN's Larry King Live interview Friday with Ross Perot. KING: One-hundred and forty-eight days ago, Ross Perot sat at this microphone and talked about running for President. The prairie fire that began here swept the country, but as quickly as it flared, that fire has gone out. Good evening. I'm Larry King in New York with a special edition of Larry King Live. Thousands of true believers spent millions on his behalf. Some polls had him ahead of both Bush and Clinton, and yesterday Ross Perot turned off the power and the enthusiasm of his grassroots workers, curdled into shock and anger. Many say they feel betrayed. Some want money back. A few say they'll carry on whether Ross Perot likes it or not. All ask a single question: Why? Why stop now? In his first interview since the bombshell drop, Ross Perot is our guest tonight. We are in New York, and our New York phone numbers are (212) 643-0077. That's (212) 643-0077. KING: Why? PEROT: Well, as I said yesterday when I announced it: I looked carefully at the facts. I'm much closer to the political process now then I was when I started. The Democrats had pretty well fallen apart when this thing started. They have made a very strong comeback. I concluded that this would be a strong 3 way race that would probably wind up in the House of Representatives. I've spent a great deal of time studying the economy. I know how important it is to rebuild the economy, to re-industrialize our country, and to create jobs for Americans. The greatest concern I have is to deliver the goods for the people. Once we are into a 3-way race, it would wind up in the House of Representatives. There are not many independents in the House of Representatives. KING: But you knew that going in, Ross. PEROT: I know, but I didn't think it would be a 3-way race. Now, my whole plan was that we could win in November. I was asked repeatedly-- KING: You knew it would be a 3-way race, didn't you? PEROT: No. Excuse me. When I say no one will have a majority electoral vote, and that forces it to the House of Representatives. KING: But every person running for Congress is now being asked, or was being asked up to yesterday; If it goes to the House, how will you vote? Tom McMillan, in Maryland; the former basketball player said, when he's asked he said I'll vote as my district votes. If you won the popular vote, there would have been a human cry in this country. You would have been the President. How could a Congressmen, where you had won his district, voted against you? PEROT: Well, I think when you get down to partisan politics, it's very strong. But there's a step beyond that. Let's assume that you made it past that. You would have a divided legislative and executive branch. I have watched the Congress and the White House in gridlock. Nothing good is happening for the benefit of the people. It's going to take 10 to 12 years to go from where we are to where we want our country to be. Congress is getting reelected every 2 years during this 10 to 12 year period. The Senate every 6 years, and the White House every 4 years. So, it's sort of like being inside a washing machine while you are trying to do something very fragile. KING: Yeah, but what happened to you Ross? Because you knew all these things in February. You knew there was gridlock. You ran against gridlock. You are a successful business man, you said, "Hey. I can deal with both sides. I've dealt with opposing sides all my life. That's how I got to be successful." PEROT: That's right. KING: So you were going to be the answer to the gridlock. PEROT: I'm much closer to how the system doesn't work now then I was. My concern: My deepest concern is that I could get there, and because I was from 1 party, and the House and Senate were from other parties, we simply couldn't move carefully and surely to fix the economy. So, step 1: I don't want to do anything that's divisive. I don't want to do anything that's destructive. My only interest was to do this job for the American people. And I concluded that's where we are now, it would be disruptive. I said all through the process; people would say, if this sort of thing comes up--I said, neither I nor the volunteers would want to do anything that disrupts this country. We love this country. Now, I love the volunteers. The volunteers are exactly what the deTocqueville was talking about when he said America is great because her people are good. This huge organized movement has a very important place in this country's present and future, and I hope we can talk about that tonight. KING: We will. But do you know how huge it got for you? For Perot? PEROT: No. I was incidental, Larry. KING: Oh no. PEROT: No. Please. KING: You can't believe that. PEROT: I was incidental. KING: You were-- PEROT: I know. I was there. These people love their country. KING: What was the movement? If it wasn't Perot, what was it? PEROT: Their love for their country. Their concern for their children. KING: Every delegate at the Democratic convention last night loved their country. Every delegate going to Houston is going to love his country. George Bush loves the country. Clinton loves the country. These people saw in you an answer for frustration, anger, poverty, what are my children going to be. You were that hope. The movement didn't have a name. The movement was Perot. PEROT: These people-- KING: I'm sorry, but that's the way people are telling us. PEROT: Well, I was there. A lot of these people that go to conventions have heavy vested interest, and they certainly love their country. But there is a lot of politics involved. Very little politics involved in this. Great concern for their children, for the country's future; to pass on the American dream; to pay off our bills; to have jobs. Just good, great things; good, great people. Now, they have no power individually. Coming together, they have created the most powerful force, maybe in this country. It is terribly important that that group stay together, and I will help them and assist them, and provide anything I can so that they can have an absolutely overwhelming impact, not only on the Presidential race, but the House and Senate races this year too. KING: Is this a 3d party? PEROT: No. I wouldn't call it anything yet. I'm going to meet with the state coordinators. And basically visit with them along these lines and find out what--You see, this comes from the people. I'm willing to say to the people: Let's look at where we can really make a contribution that will help the country. And let's optimize this great organization that we have to do that. So that, in my mind is the next step. I have not gone away. I will stay with them right through the end. I will help and support them any way I can and play any role they want me to. KING: What was the lesson you said you learned that you didn't know February 20th that you now know July 17th? What didn't you know then that you now know that told you you couldn't be an effective president? PEROT: I could be an effective president if we didn't have this partisan stress. KING: But you didn't know that in February? PEROT: I didn't appreciate it to the degree I do now. KING: What made you appreciate it? PEROT: Just being inside the tent watching it. I didn't realize how vicious it was, how petty it was. More focus--see, the people I've been dealing with out of grass roots America, there is no viciousness, there is no pettiness. They love their country; they're patriots. You get inside the tent, and the infighting and the viciousness and what-have-you is just unique. And Larry, you can't get anything done in that environment. KING: So why not come outside the tent and say, folks, the tent is terrible, I'm going to change the tent? But it looks like--it does look like or perceived by many that when you leave it, you're saying, hey, that's the way the tent is. I told you I could fight the tent. I can't fight the tent. PEROT: No. I have not said that. I have said I don't believe that the proper course of action is to have me run as president. I do believe the proper course of action is to take all of these talented, creative people that have mobilized themselves across the country and use that to correct the problems inside the tent. And believe me, individually, they have no voice. They're not a special interest group. They can't get big PAC money. They don't belong to the 100 committee, etc, etc, etc. But they have something over here that dwarfs all those other special interest groups. They have numbers of voters. So they have something that's magic that any-- KING: Who need to rally behind something. Can't be a-- PEROT: Well, I will provide them any kind of help and leadership they want me to, and we're going to be meeting on that in the next few days. But I do not think that the highest and best use--the best thing for the country is to run me as the candidate. Now, they have an interesting piece of leverage, though, that they're all very much aware of and certainly I'm aware of, and believe me, both parties are aware of. I am on the ballot. They put me there. I was asked at the press conference, would I take my name off? I said I can't do that. The people put me on there. I'm going to meet with them and let--we'll discuss what they want to do. So I think with that leverage sitting there, they will have--just take the marinara thing of the presidency. They will have both candidates giving them their full attention. Then both candidates will know exactly what the people want. They get confused. They know what the special interests want now. In the next week or 2, they will know in technicolor what the people want. KING: You went on 2 other ballots, I think, yesterday? PEROT: Yes. KING: All right. PEROT: They're continuous. KING: They're continuous. What if you're on the ballot in 48 states on November 3rd? What if? PEROT: What if? Now, I'm on the ballot, say, in-- KING: And you're not going to endorse Clinton or Bush. PEROT: And neither one of them has responded to the will of the people. KING: Then what? PEROT: Well, I'm going back to my volunteers. You have to--look, Larry-- KING: Are you saying you want them to vote for you if they're unhappy with Clinton or Bush? PEROT: No. I will--we will meet again. See, we kind of do an unnatural thing. We just--we get together, talk about it, and say, what is best for the country? KING: What if they said to you, we hear Clinton's promises, we hear Bush's statements, we're unhappy, we don't know where to go, let's vote for you, Ross, and let's see what happens on November 3rd? PEROT: I'm an engineer. I'd say all right, let's look at the facts. If you launch a huge protest vote for me, who have you put in the White House? Now, let--we'll have enough data around then to have a really good indication--who will you put in the White House? Then just make sure that's who you want to put in the White House. KING: What if it's you? PEROT: Well, that would be the very, very, very long shot because of the position of the 2 parties and the position of the 2 parties in the House of Representatives. And I would say, let's be pragmatic here. Do you want to take a long shot or do we want to try to capture the minds and the hearts of the person who can best lead the country? KING: Let's get a break and we'll be back with Ross Perot. We'll of course include your phone calls. This is "Larry King Live" in New York. Don't go away. KING: Our guest is Ross Perot. We'll be taking your calls in a little while. There's a lot of bases we want to cover. Certainly this has been interesting. And again, he's going to stay on the ballots. Do you think you had a duty to serve, based on what you said? PEROT: No. KING: No? PEROT: You said based on what I said? I responded no to that. I have probably been more fortunate than anybody deserves to be. I had wonderful parents, I've had the world's greatest wife, 5 perfect children, more than my share of success. I would do anything I could to help this country, but I want to be constructive and I want it to be good for the people, and I don't have any personal goal at all. I just want to do the right thing. So you say, what drives me in all these decisions? And it's that simple. And you say, well, gee, what if you make an unpopular decision? That doesn't bother me as long as I do the right thing. KING: Doesn't it bother you that people are hurt? PEROT: Oh, that breaks my heart. But I have to do the right thing. KING: What didn't you like about this process? Let me show you an example. We got a lot of faxes. I guess you're getting a lot of faxes. We got faxed attacked at CNN today. All right, 1 from Christine Lane in Walnut, California. This was to us: Dear Mr King, Yesterday 20 million Ross Perot volunteers wept. We all felt terribly betrayed. Mr Perot made a promise to us that if we got him on the ballot in all 50 states, he'd give us a world-class campaign. He never said if he went down in the polls, that that promise didn't apply. Tyler Scott, 13 years old, Winnsboro, Texas: Mr Perot, Please reconsider so my mom will stop crying. These people love you, obviously. PEROT: And I love them, Larry. And I love them. I have given them every waking moment of my life since this started, and I have taken a pretty interesting beating for them, which I don't worry about. That's the least of my--because I don't care about my image and I don't care how I look. But the thing I--they have put their trust in me and I only have 1 agenda, and that is doing the right thing for them. KING: But their trust in you was to run. They wanted to pull that lever next to your name. That's what they wanted. PEROT: Well, but is that the right thing to do? KING: But you said it was. PEROT: Emotionally, I am flattered that they feel that way, but if you look at the details and you look at why things don't work and you look at what it takes to make them work--now, we have something very, very precious here in what they've created. We can make things work, and that's where I hope we can all agree to go when we first meet. Let's organize. We can provide the swing vote to determine who gets in the House and Senate, and we can provide the swing vote to who gets to be the next president of the US. And I will work with them night and day to get that done. Now then-- KING: Are you going to have a convention of sorts? PEROT: Yes. KING: Are you going to have a massive get-together somewhere? PEROT: We will start off with the state coordinators bringing in the thoughts and ideas from their states. We will have a long meeting and kick these ideas around and figure out what will best serve this country. There is only 1 filter it's got to get through. What's good for the US of America? What's good for our children? What would build a bigger, stronger country? Now, I have not gone away, but I have concluded that I should not be the candidate. On the other hand, we have enormous leverage in what they have done, and we can use that for the good of the country, and I will help them. KING: Especially by remaining a protest candidate, because if you're on the ballot in all these states and they've put you on the ballot, you can't stop someone from voting for you. PEROT: That's right. KING: So in a sense, you're still sort of hanging that leaf out. PEROT: That's the magic, Larry. You just put your finger on it. They say, so now you've captured everybody's minds and hearts and say look, if you guys, if you'll do this, this, this and this for the good of the country and just stop talking about it, stop the gridlock, cut all these funny things out you're doing, then we will go forward with you. Otherwise-- KING: We've got an alternative. PEROT: We have a protest vote and that could take 1 of the 2 of you through the tank. KING: So you want both these--all 4 of these candidates to talk to your people and if they don't satisfy your people, your people should protest vote for you? PEROT: They have an option. But the thing is--the thing is, if you look at what the parties are saying now and if you look at the phrases they use and the words they're using, they're copying our positions already. KING: President Bush said today, for Ross Perot followers, he looked at the camera and said, I get the message, I hear your pain--I don't want to--that's a paraphrase. I hear you. He did say, I hear you. What did he say to you, by the way? PEROT: We just had a nice visit, and I thought it was a private visit, and then they had a press release. So you know how that goes. KING: Do you think they took advantage-- PEROT: No, no, no, no, no. I just don't understand politics. I guess you always do that when something like this comes up. But it was just a nice visit. KING: But I mean you thought it was just a private-- PEROT: Private conversation. With both candidates. KING: You had Clinton call, too, right? PEROT: Gov Clinton and President Bush. And then they both issued press releases. I just--I thought they were private conversations, but no problem. That's the way politics is. KING: Have you ever heard from Sen Gore or Vice President Quayle? PEROT: No, I haven't, wouldn't expect it, because the senior candidates have called. KING: How about anger over things like Marlin Fitzwater calling you a monster? You've been described as a temperamental tycoon. This was this administration calling, who are now saying to your voters, come with us. How do you react to that? PEROT: I ignore it. I ignored it then. First time I heard it, I said, are you sure they didn't say cookie monster? No, this is silly stuff. Now, it's sad that politics has deteriorated to this, but let's go back to our group. We can change all that. We have such large numbers-- KING: How big is your group? PEROT: It's millions. And I've got the database. Everybody'd like to know, but it's big. And it is plenty big, and you can see it reflected in the polls and so on and so forth. KING: But aren't they going to leave you now? PEROT: If they want to, that's fine. On the other hand, they would make a great--it's not me, Larry. They shouldn't leave what they've created. KING: You're asking them tonight to stay and maybe there'll be a party, maybe there'll be something, but stay. PEROT: I'm saying stay the course as a united team. If I could just pray for 1 thing to happen is that we would have a tightly knit, united team in a country that's all split apart and divided. Now then, if we stay together, we can force the Democrats and the Republicans to do the right thing for the country, and we can make a contribution that would be unique in the history of this country. And most importantly, we can pass the dream on to our children. Larry, let me net it out. When I was a younger man, the standard of living of the average American doubled every other generation. Now, at our present growth rates, it will take 12 generations for the American people to double their standard of living. See? These are the kinds of problems we face. That's wrong. KING: Now, you know America, you know media. You got to give this a name. You got to give the party a name; you got to call it the Perots. PEROT: No, no, no. KING: No? You got to call it something. PEROT: It has to have a name, and I--again, see, the volunteers drive this thing. That has been the magic, that will be the magic in its future, and if they want to name it, they'll name it. I'm sure they'll want to name it, and they will. KING: You mentioned about taking the raps and that it didn't bother you personally, but-- PEROT: No. KING: --did it bother you with regard to your family? PEROT: My family is very tough, very supportive. You've got to go all the way back to the war in Vietnam. I was on the assassination list for 3 1/2 years. My family was on the assassination list. And we kept on on the POW projects at the request of the US government. So to all the volunteers out there, if you want a good example of whether or not I quit or not, when your whole family is on the list to be assassinated and you don't quit, that tells you something about quitting. Now, let's go to the war on drugs. Again, I was on everybody's hit list. When we went into Tehran to get our people out, think of the stress on my family there, because the odds were good I'd be killed, right? Well, we were lucky. We got in and out. So my family has seen a lot of stress. This is ping-pong compared to the stress they've seen. But the point is, I tell you those 3 things to let you know I won't quit. I love, I just adore being involved in this cause as another worker and as a person who leads or supports or plays whatever role they want. Now I'm back like all these other causes I've been involved--nobody can constantly say, well, he wants to be president. I want the country fixed. KING: If this isn't quitting, it's a removal of sorts, though, or it's a step back. PEROT: Well, call it what--no. Only because--now, I would go do the nastiest, dirtiest job in the world in a minute for the American people if I thought I could get it done. But see, I don't want to go there to ride in a limousine, I don't want to go there to be in the White House or hear "Hail to the Chief." KING: You said that. There's no law that says you have to ride in a limousine. PEROT: I just want to go--I would only want to go if I could fix these problems for people who desperately need them fixed. I've concluded this is not the best route. I think I can convince the volunteers, if we can--you know, when we sit down and talk, that there is a better way, but we've got it in the palms of our hands unless we give it up. KING: Did the press do you dirty? Did elements of the press--I don't want to label the whole press. PEROT: Everybody--we used to have an expression in the Navy, everybody has to be somewhere. You know, so just leave it. I wouldn't dignify it with commenting on it. It's just that's the way they make their living. KING: Well, when you read--if you read lies about--did you read any lies about yourself? PEROT: Every day. KING: Okay, you read every day. All right, how do you react to that? You'd never seen that before. You may have seen it in blips, but not in a daily concentration. Okay, what was that like? PEROT: That was incidental. No, I ignore the mosquitoes and focus on the issues. The issues are these problems that the people are concerned about. KING: Were you shocked that they kind of went to war on you? PEROT: Oh, I shouldn't have been because I was a threat to the establishment. Having the people have a voice was a threat to the establishment. I love that. No, actually I knew exactly what was happening, and that didn't bother me. KING: Now, you think it was inspired by the Republicans, though, don't you? You said that on this show. PEROT: Well, they are really organized to do it. The Democrats don't do it. KING: You praised Clinton-Gore in your press conference yesterday. PEROT: I didn't praise Clinton and Gore. I said they've revitalized the Democratic Party. I did not mean that--that's just a fact. No, I did not praise anybody. KING: Okay. Do you think that's a good ticket? PEROT: They picked them. KING: Do you think it's a good ticket? PEROT: I wouldn't say. I've never said who I vote for. But if our group comes together, when we meet, and we decide to go out on the field to make sure we have people in the House, the Senate and the White House that are going to fix this country's problems and we--you talk about the foreign lobbyists. They won't even have a voice compared to the American people. KING: Do I hear you saying that this group, so far not named, will endorse congressional candidates, will say we like him; don't vote for him? PEROT: That's 1 idea that's come from the grass roots. Now, we will meet, we will decide what we want to do or if the volunteers want to do anything. But I will be with them every step of the way. KING: Now, when your state chairmen get together, if they say, let's have a convention, let's meet in August or September, let's get all our groups together, let's kick around ideas--that's what conventions do--let's have a platform, would you favor that? PEROT: If the output of the meeting is do that, certainly. We should have a clear plan that everybody running can see and they say we will sign on to that or we won't. No, you have to have that, Larry, because then there's no place to run, no place to hide. KING: You've got to get together. PEROT: No place to run, no place to hide. And the candidates, House, Senate, White House say we will buy into that or we won't. KING: You would invite Mr Clinton and Mr Bush to the Perot--for want of a better name--convention? PEROT: I would suggest that small groups sit down with them, go through a proposal in detail, explain why we feel we have to do this for our country, make it clear that the American people are ready to strap it on and go do it. We're not as weak as they seem to worry that we are. KING: When we come back, we'll start including your phone calls with Ross Perot. This is "Larry King Live" in New York. Don't go away. KING: Welcome back to Larry King Live. Don't forget on TNT, 1 of our sister stations, next Wednesday night at 8:00: The Larry King Extra. Our guest will be Jack Lemmon and Tony Quinn and Kirk Douglas. That's a Larry King Extra: The Legends, next Wednesday night at 8:00. That's the premier. It will be repeated at 11:00, est. Next Wednesday night at 9:00, we'll hold you all night; on Larry King Live, the guest will be Vice President Dan Quayle. That's next Wednesday night with Dan Quayle. Our guest is Ross Perot. A couple of other things and we'll go to calls. If this fails, might we see a 3d party come out of this? A true 3d--registered 3d party that gets on the ballot and has candidates? PEROT: A very interesting point. Let's assume all the volunteers come together and drive the ball hard, and are disappointed in the results. And than we will have to conclude we can't do it by being supportive of the 2 party system, but we have everything in place for the 3d party. It's an easy natural thing. But there's another interesting phenomenon here. In the plan that is under consideration--See, the volunteers are picking Congressional and Senatorial candidates in every state that their going to back. They want to pick a Presidential candidate that will deliver for the people. Let's assume that the last minute that neither one will. But they've got their Congressional candidates picked: The House of Representatives picked. Do you follow me? KING: Right. PEROT: Than they do a protest vote. Than you have a whole new game there. Do you follow me? KING: I think I follow you. PEROT: No. That is a whole new game. But that's because 2 Presidential candidates failed them. They can than go to the-- KING: But you're going to have to tell them what you want them to succeed at. You have to tell Mr Bush and Mr Clinton what's your platform--I mean Mr Bush has to respond to something. PEROT: No. Absolutely. And that's easy to do. And we can certainly do that if the volunteers want to. But the whole thing-- KING: So, you want people to still keep calling you? I mean, are you going to keep your 800 number? PEROT: Well, we're past that at this point. We're at the point now where we need to organize the state and local level. The initial round of calls came into a central location. Far more efficient now just to sign up with your local group. If you want to be part of this, you just sign up locally and off we go. But the first thing we need to have: We need to meet. We need to decide what to do. And than we need to go, relentlessly and do it. KING: Rumors that you didn't want to spend money. Sure pause. That you looked at it and--you had a great advertizing agency. They did Reagan's America in the Morning spots. Why didn't you want them, by the way? PEROT: We never hired them. They came in, were interviewed, did some preliminary work for us. See, again this thing works when it comes from the people. We wanted plain, just good straight talking ads to straight talking people. KING: That's what you just wanted to do? PEROT: Interestingly enough, we now have it. We've got ads that are knock outs. KING: Where are they? PEROT: They are in the can, ready to go. KING: Wait a minute. These are ads that say vote for me? PEROT: The campaign ads are in the can. So no problem there. And they are killers. KING: Wait a minute. If you're not dead in October would you run these? PEROT: No. No. The point is: If you have to tap both Presidential candidates on the shoulder. Say, "Look guys, if you force us to, than we have an exit here. We've got an option." But, but for God's sake, let's make the system work and put tremendous pressure on the system to make it work, and than get action next year. KING: Let's take some calls. Kansas City Missouri for Ross Perot. Q: Yes, Ross? PEROT: How are you? PEROT: Fine. How are you? PEROT: I'm great. Q: I have a question. PEROT: Yes, sir. Q: Do you think it's possible to negotiate with the Democrats or Republicans? PEROT: I would say this, we'll find out in a few weeks, right? Let's do this. Let's assume that we can. Let's give it a hard shot. Volunteers monitor and watch it every step of the way. If it works, fine. If you're not happy, you've got an option. KING: Peoria Illinois, hello. Q: Mr Perot, I saw you on the first Larry King, and 8 or 10 times after that. CSPAN and call in shows and so on. I saw you at the NAACP and as far as I know, that was the first and only time--you can correct me--that you weren't talking to supporters, or it wasn't a call in show. And the camera showed the audience. I thought you bombed. How do you think you did? PEROT: Well, it didn't go very well. KING: How do explain that term? Did you realize it was offensive at the time? PEROT: No. Again-- KING: Do you think it was more colloquial? PEROT: I don't know what it was. I know this: For years I have worked to help the black community. I have given millions of dollars for schools, for programs for disadvantaged black children. I've got scars from all over my body from education reform. Getting programs for disadvantaged children; the majority of which were black in our state, and hispanic. And in terms of loving and caring for everyone in this country, the record is there. I just spoke from the heart, and who knows why, but I'm not going to worry about it, because--and the fact that that was not a positive experience has nothing to do with my future continuing love and caring for every person in this country as a private citizen. KING: What happened with Hamilton Jordan and Ed Rollins? 2 tough political pros who joined you. Jordan stayed, Rollins quit the day before you announced that you would not be a serious candidate for the President. PEROT: Basically, I was determined to run a campaign that came from the people. I like a bottoms up campaign. Now than, the next time we meet, all the state chairmen will be in the room. See a couple of weeks ago, I spent a half a day with all the state chairmen and they were giving me an earful about how to do this, how to do that. That's the way I run my businesses. KING: But you hire people like Rollins in your businesses too, don't you? You said when you hired them, "I need experts." That's what experts do. PEROT: Again, we brought people in with experience in campaigns as advisors. Not to run the campaign. Just so that things that were obvious to them that might not be obvious to us. On anything we do from this point forward with the volunteers, we go back to basics. And it will be from the grassroots up and that works. I know that works. It works in my business, it's worked in everything I've done. KING: Was that than a mistake? PEROT: Oh, I don't want to blame anybody and call it mistake. KING: No. On your part. If you had to do it over again, you wouldn't hire them? PEROT: I would say, no. If we had to do it over again, I would have stayed strictly with the grassroots operation. And a very unconventional operation. KING: Jefferson City Missouri. Q: Hi. A quick comment. This is the show me state. Mr Perot, I'm sorry, but I think you're all dough and no show. You made a promise and you didn't keep your word. Now my question is: Who got to you? I have a feeling somebody on the Republican side, the dirty tricksters got to you and you're not normally a man who's scared, but those people have scared me for the last 12 years and beyond that. And I just think somebody got to you, and I think they are making you drop out. PEROT: No. They didn't get to me. And I think if you listen to what I'm saying tonight, they're going to continue to be doing what ever they used to do if I proceed forward in this fashion, because what we are now discussing with the state chairmen is even more all encompassing because it goes to endorsing Senatorial and Congressional candidates, and covers the whole waterfront. And gives this huge volunteer organization a much greater voice in the future of our country. KING: You're saying tonight: You're not going away. There will be 50 state organizations. You're going to pull together and meet with those organizations. You're going to want to hear from the Presidential candidates, the Vice Presidential candidates, Congressional candidates, Senatorial candidates. You're going to endorse some if you like them, you're going to set up proposals of your own, and if people are unhappy by November 3rd, and haven't had answers they can protest vote for you? PEROT: Well, when we say of your own, of the volunteers, the people. The people will put together what they feel is important to the future of this country. Probably keep it pretty focused on things that have to be done. Not get into every little issue in the world and just stay right on the core issues. KING: Why didn't you say that yesterday? Or was yesterday too emotional? PEROT: No. Yesterday was not too emotional. I explained yesterday that I wanted to talk-- KING: You didn't say this. PEROT: Not in this level of detail. I explained yesterday that I was still on the ballot. And I thought that they could extrapolate from there, but I guess I should have detailed it out more. KING: You have to be a little clearer Ross. PEROT: I should have been a little more clear. But the thing I need to do more than anything else now is sit down and visit with the volunteers. See, they may want to go forward and say Perot we don't need you anymore. I'd say, okay that's fine. And they may want to go forward and have me play this role or that role. It's their program. It came from them. It's a beautiful thing. KING: Are you sad? PEROT: No. Don't spend time being sad. Never spend time being disappointed and frustrated. And God bless you all. I understand if you are, but we've got work to do. And let's put it on a personal basis. Look at what I have had to go through. I know what you've had to go through. I think you can see my will and my attitude here tonight. I can't see your's, but I know what it is from all the response that's come through in the last couple of days. Now, what we need to do is pull together into a tightly knit unified team. Our country pines for tightly knit unified teams that work together to get a job done. If you want to do that, then our best days are still in the future as far as this grassroots effort. If you don't, I understand. KING: So we can better understand: Can you tell us Ross, I mean we've gotten to know you pretty well over these months. What are some of the things that happened to you? What happened to you? You said there were lies in the paper, but you brushed them off. What else happened? PEROT: Oh just the usual clutter. Nothing worth mentioning. The point being, the people--all the volunteers who have formed this very carefully. They know because they read and see everything that goes on. They know what's happening. I don't like to spend any time dwelling on it, because if you think about it you relive it. It's better just to put it behind you. Here's what's important Larry, and that is our country is in a very delicate situation in terms of its economy, in terms of its job base and all of these things. We need to stop thinking about what happened and figure out how we're going to make it happen. To rebuild this country for our children. KING: Is this a game, for want of a better term. Is politics a game you didn't like? PEROT: My deep concern, and let's assume we go through November and the volunteers produce the kind of roaring success for our country that I think they can-- KING: There could be a protest vote. PEROT: I don't think it will. But if it is, it is. I think that we're going to see an interesting group of choir boys out there. When the American people have an effective voice, and it's no longer just the guys who can get TV money and the foreign lobbyists, and all of a sudden the folks that pay the taxes have a voice again, I think we're going to see a lot of focus and attention. We'll see. We'll let that take care of itself. But now then, let's assume we get past that. One of the things I think we'd like to make clear to both of them this year, and I've got to talk to volunteers about this, is people. Let's raise this up to a higher plane. Let's stop mud wrestling in the political process. Let's have a more dignified process. I think everybody would welcome it at this point. It is a process now that guarantees that the people you would really like to have as the leaders of your country would never go near it because it is so demeaning. KING: Are you saying no more dirty politics, period? PEROT: Just cut the dirty politics out, tell the opposition research guys to go get a job cleaning up the roads or something. And you know, just get down to facts, issues and believe in something. For example, if you and I are running against one another, I should not be able to beat you because I destroy you. I should only be able to beat you because my plans are better than your plans, right? KING: Do you think they tried to destroy you? PEROT: No, no, no, no, no. I just think-- KING: Do you think they did? PEROT: No, don't make it personal. Larry, I refuse to make it personal. KING: Okay. PEROT: You know how the game is played. The average citizen out there knows how the game is played. And what we need to do is bring the game back up to a very high standard. Boxing has the Marcus of Queensbury rules, you don't hit below the belt, right? Etc. etc. This is mud wrestling with no rules. Just anything goes. And if 1 candidate can destroy the other, he will win by default. The only way that candidate should be able to win is to have a better program for the people. KING: Do you think you could have prevented that, really, by staying above the fray? Staying in the race, producing some early commercials, telling us the Ross Perot biography. As someone said the other night, it's an impressive biography. You tell us your story and stay above that fray, and let the Republicans and the Democrats do the things they've always done, and Perot would be different. PEROT: Possibly I could do that, but that's not the issue. The issue is this is not the way to attract the finest people in the country to go to Washington as the servants of the people, this nasty, negative thing we've created. And these huge efforts to dig up dirt on anybody that's running against you, see. I'll tell you this. We have never had a single person working on anything like that, never would. The American people hate it. And if we go forward, I think 1 of the things you'll see in bold print is we will not support any candidate that does that. KING: Our guest is Ross Perot. We want to talk about the economy and other things, take your phone calls. We also have a group of Perot supporters in Palm Beach, Florida. We're going to hear from 1 of them. There they are, watching Ross tonight. Get some thoughts there. They're applauding and waving. And we'll come back with more of "Larry King Live" right after these words. KING: Welcome back to "Larry King Live." We have cleared things with the powers that be, and Ross Perot has graciously agreed to stay with us, and we're going to hold this program over till the bottom of the next hour, till 10:30 Eastern time, so we'll be able to get more calls and really get Mr Perot's thoughts on the economy, something everybody's waiting to here, too. And so we'll be with you until 10:30 est. We're going to go down to Palm Beach Gardens, Fla. There is a group of supporters of Ross Perot. They're led by Margie Matthau. Margie was the Palm Beach County Perot campaign coordinator. Margie, do you have a question or a statement for Ross? MARGIE MATTHAU: Hi, Ross. Good to see you again. Saw you in Orlando. PEROT: Good to see you. MATTHAU: I read "Wings of Eagles," as you asked. And I quote from where you're going to Iran to help rescue your 2 employees. The quote is from your mother: "You don't have a choice, Ross," she said. "They're your men. You sent them over there. They didn't do anything wrong. Our government won't help them. You are responsible for them. It's up to you to get them out. You have to go." That's the way I felt about you, Ross, that you were going to get us out of this. Our government now is not going to help us. My office is open. I've eaten here, I've slept here. All of my helpers here, we are at the point where we are going to block captains. What do I do next? Do I leave my doors open? PEROT: We're going to meet quickly, as you've heard me say tonight. We're going to decide where we go from here. Then we will lock in and go do it. This will take a day or 2 at most. We will get the word back to every volunteer immediately, as soon as we know. And I would hope that by Monday, we could tell you. KING: What if these people--this is a what if, and I don't like what if questions but it's fair--what if these people gather together and say reconsider? PEROT: I would really focus them on the fact that we could do more in this posture than we could if we're just trying to push 1 independent candidate through the eye of the needle. Here, now we've taken on the whole system, we have the ability to influence both parties, we have this massive group of talented, dedicated people. Nobody else has anything like it. We were going to make a little change. Now we can make the change we have to make to get the system to work. This is a much bigger, bolder step. And I think we can be more effective this way. We'll debate it and discuss it. KING: Is that also, in your opinion, following through on what your mother said about you and those folks in Iran? PEROT: Oh, they're interesting analogies. Once we start it--now, see, we've started, so we're in Tehran, if you will. Now, we were all geared up to get our guys out of 1 prison, then they moved them. And we had a whole different problem. As I get closer and closer to this problem or any other problem I've ever been around in my life, I always find a better way to do it. I think we're onto a better way now that impacts the whole system, not just the White House. And the thing that stopped me personally is I realized that unless you impact the whole system, just changing who's in the White House doesn't fix much. You've got to fix the whole system, the House, the Senate, the White House. KING: Do you want to follow up, Margie? MATTHAU: I'd love to say you're in the ring till the end. I want to hear you all the way. PEROT: Margie, I'm going to meet with all the volunteers' state coordinators. They'll be talking with all the people at the local level. As soon as we build a consensus of what you want to do, then we're going to go do it. Now, let me ask you this, Margie. Don't you think we're at our best when it comes from the grass roots? MATTHAU: You know that. PEROT: I know that; yes, I do know that. MATTHAU: I've had that feedback from some of the people that were there from the 50 states. Yes, we're ready to go. All we're ready for is the door knockers to go door to door. KING: All right, let me get a break. We'll come back. PEROT: Can I respond? KING: Yeah, oh, we'll respond. We'll come back with Ross Perot, and again, he's staying with us till the bottom of the next hour, so don't go away. This is "Larry King Live." Stay there. [promos] KING: Welcome back to "Larry King Live." Through the graciousness of Tom Johnson and the folks in Atlanta and the folks involved with CNN, we are holding Ross Perot an extra half hour. We'll have complete news for you at the bottom of the hour. We thank him for agreeing to stay. We'll be taking more phone calls, but he did want to add something on that door-to-door idea. PEROT: Right. Margie, when you go door to door--let's assume you're selling products--you'd like to have more than 1 product. If we go door to door on this plan we're discussing tonight, you'll not only be talking about the person who should be president, you'll be talking about the House of Representatives and the Senate. So I think we can be much more effective at each stop. KING: You could also have run and done the same thing, right? PEROT: Not effectively. There's not enough time. See, I just adore being part of a--see, now I'm like the volunteers. I'm in this with nothing in it for me. I'm in it strictly--they're in it just for their country. Now then, in this role, helping, supporting them, so on and so forth, being--sitting there on the ballot, you know, kind of like a whale on the beach just in case, all that's beautiful. But all any of us want is to have our country straightened out and to have the people in Washington as our servants and to be sensitive to us and not to special interests. Pretty simple stuff. KING: Do you think you've created a new way of politicking, this kind of thing? PEROT: No. If it's created, they created it. Those people you see sitting out there-- KING: I mean with these kind of programs. PEROT: No, no. Again, I'm incidental. They did it, and they are great. KING: Yeah, but you went on this show and other shows. PEROT: No, but that was just the-- KING: Catalyst. PEROT: No, the catalyst doesn't participate in the reaction. KING: Okay, the instrument. PEROT: I am in the reaction here. KING: Okay, I tried to make you the catalyst. PEROT: Yeah, that'd be kind of neat. KING: This is the instrument. PEROT: But this is the instrument created by the people, and I think the founders of the Constitution or the founders of this country would be smiling down from heaven if they do it. KING: By the way, can you tell us--why not--was there a short list for your vice president? PEROT: I never talk about it. KING: Had you spoken to anyone about it? PEROT: I'd never talk about it. KING: Okay, Cleveland, hello. Q: Well, I would like to start off by saying how much I hurt and the tears just have not stopped. We had a headquarters in Garfield Heights, Ohio, which is a suburb of Cleveland, and it was wonderful and refreshing to meet so many people from different areas who just drove by and would stop in because they supported you and loved you, Ross. Love for our country, yes. But knowing how much we loved you as a person was just as important to us. Do we really have a choice now? You showed us honesty, love, and you truly wanted to change our country. Please, Ross, show us how much you care for us. Do what we went out to do for you. PEROT: Well, I do care for you and I love you, and I will remember for the rest of my life everything you just said. I know that I speak for you and everyone else when I say our objective is the country. The fact that you have those feelings for me personally means a great deal to me. I am incidental in the big picture. Getting the system to work is all-important. If I can be a source of inspiration, a source of leadership, support, anything that I can be to help this great cause continue and bear fruit for our country, I'll be right there with you all the way through and past the end. And I hope--and again, the way the thing's set up now, you have the enormous leverage that you have put me on the ballot. I think that will capture everybody's mind, heart and attention. You will have the House, the Senate and the White House absolutely sensitive to what you want, and you will see our country properly run again. KING: And you're saying she and all the others will be hearing from state coordinators within the next week? PEROT: Oh, within the next-- KING: 2 days. PEROT: --probably Monday or Tuesday, latest. And then, see, we'll go from a central meeting, they'll go back with the best ideas, talk to the people, everybody will have a voice in it. They may come back and say, gee, Perot, here is a ten times better idea. We're looking for the best idea for our country, whatever that is. KING: Okay, but if this convention--and let's say they decide to have a convention-- PEROT: Fine. KING: --invite candidates, hear the statements. You don't want to hear them say to you reconsider, but--I just want to clear this--if they're protesting November 3rd, they can use it as a protest while endorsing people for the Senate and the House? PEROT: Exactly. KING: Okay, I just want to get it straight. PEROT: But you've got all these different balls moving, and in a political year, here is this army of patriots, army of people who love their country. Nobody is going to ignore it. KING: Why don't you call them the Army of Patriots? PEROT: Well, I'll let them name it because it belongs to them. KING: Bozeman, Montana, hello. Q: Yes, sir. Mr Perot, I do have a question. PEROT: Yes, sir. Q: Number 1, you made me as an American very proud when you first came out. You gave me hope again, let's say. But now that you--you're not quitting, but you're stepping back from the presidency, how can we be assured that with what you're doing now, that you won't step back again? And what would you say to us that has a great hope for you and then stepped back-- KING: Fair question. Q: --how can you boost us up? PEROT: Well, you'll have to make your own decision on that. If you look at all the things I've been involved with in my life, as I go through them, if we uncover a better way to do them, I always like to be flexible and do that. In my judgment, this is a much better way. See, the best we could have hoped for if everything had happened just right is that I would have been your servant in the White House. Under the program we're talking about tonight, we can very realistically hope that the person in the White House and the people in the House and Senate will be your servants and everybody anywhere will be your servant right after the 1992 election. Now, if we had taken it step by step, it would have taken us, say, 6 years to do it. We don't have 6 years in our economy. One of the things that drives this new idea is we need action now and we need sure-footed action now. And in 1 bold stroke, you the people can capture the House, the Senate and the White House. It's up to you. But I won't quit on you, don't worry about that. KING: New York City. Q: Hello, Larry, great show. KING: Hi, thank you. Q: Mr Perot, have you not treated this presidential campaign as a rich man's toy in which you've never made a real commitment, and played with the hopes and dreams of millions of Americans, only to dash their hopes when it wasn't fun for you anymore? PEROT: It never was fun for me, number 1. Number 2, I've worked on it night and day, 7 days a week, since I started. Number 3, certainly I don't want to dash anybody's hopes and dreams, and if I did, I wouldn't be here tonight having this discussion. And I certainly understand your position, I'm sensitive to your position. And you just have to decide what the right thing for you to do is. I know you love this country and you're committed or you wouldn't be saying the things you're saying. You just have to decide what the right step for you as a citizen/part- owner is from this point forward. KING: Never was fun to you? PEROT: The rallies. KING: The rallies? PEROT: Oh, no, no. When you're with the volunteers and you're at the rallies, and you're doing the real work of the real people, it is pure fun. Pure fun. All the phony stuff, you just have to hold your nose and do it. Now, here's the other thing-- KING: Were you ready to come forward--were we going to hear the Perot platform? PEROT: Oh, sure. KING: Were we close to hearing-- PEROT: Yes. KING: --economic program-- PEROT: You know, but now, interestingly enough, the more deeply I got into that, that's when I realized you've got to have the House, the Senate and the White House ready to march in step. And what we're laying out here tonight is a plan to have the House, the Senate and the White House march in step, fix the economy, put America back to work. KING: What did you think of Bill Clinton's speech last night? PEROT: I didn't get to hear it. I mean, I'm sorry, I was traveling. KING: You didn't watch it? PEROT: No, I did not get to hear it. KING: Did you read it this morning? PEROT: No, I didn't get to read it. I was coming up here this morning, so--all I do is travel. So you know, in terms of am I going night and day? I'm going night and day, yes. KING: We'll be back with Ross Perot and more phone calls. Again, we thank him for staying, we thank the powers that be at CNN for giving us the extra time, and we'll be with you till the bottom of the hour. Get more calls in. Don't go away. [promos] KING: With Ross Perot, again, we're holding over, and we thank him for joining us. Next Wednesday, our guest will be Vice President Dan Quayle. We'll go back to the calls. Stockholm, Sweden, hello. Q: Yes, Mr Perot-- PEROT: How are you? Q: Thank you, sir, fine. Do you understand that when somebody like you, and after what you have generated in that country, which I personally as a Swede like very much your country, America--when somebody like you and what you have generated cannot pull it off, ie, if you cannot take power back from the established mafia in the media or in power, then what hope have the American people got? PEROT: Well, the American people are the strength in this effort, and they can do it. I can assist them, I can provide support for them. I'm certainly willing to do that, working together. Now, the key here in this whole effort, we've got to lock arms and just go do it if the people want to. We'll find out in a few days, and if they do, we'll be off on the rocket. KING: I'm sure you're going to let us all know if they do. PEROT: Oh, no, it will not be a secret. KING: Because you've got them going door to door here. You ought to give them a name, Ross. PEROT: Will not be a secret. KING: American something. PEROT: Oh, no, they will pick their--see, again, the typical way would be to get a New York firm to pick a name, pay a million bucks. No, no, we'll have a meeting, the people will pick the name. It'll be their name. KING: Austin, Texas, hello. We're on the formation of a 3d party here tonight. I don't know what else you can call it. Austin, Texas, hello. Q: I have a comment and a question. My comment is, why don't we call this effort the Patriot Party. My question is, Mr Perot, if we the people get you on the ballot in all 50 states, will you honor your commitment to us? PEROT: I feel it's much better--now, again, we're going to debate this, we're going to discuss it, we'll have a lot of fun doing it--I feel it is a much better course of action to give both candidates a chance to sign on to our program and to get every member of the House and Senate to sign on to our economic programs, the other fundamental programs that we feel are vital to the country's future. Then the system goes into effect January, 1993, and hums. We can accomplish a lot more that way than we can focusing on just getting 1 person in. KING: Obviously, he's asking, though, if you're on the ballot in all 50 states, if the protest vote is huge--which is doubtful, if everybody turns away from Republicans and Democrats; if elected, you will serve, I guess is what he's asking. If a miracle were to occur. PEROT: Yes, but I'll make him a big bet right now-- KING: That you won't. PEROT: That between now and November, the American people will see an incredible sensitivity from both parties, it will help you rebuild your confidence in those parties and off we go. Now, you can't go home then. We'll have to stay around to keep that sensitivity alive. KING: Bill Clinton said that yesterday Ross Perot paid this party the ultimate compliment by claiming his chances have been erased by a revitalized Democrat party. Would you comment on that? PEROT: Well, when you look at where they were on the first night we talked, and when you look at where they are today it's an incredible turn around, Larry. That's just a fact. I deal in facts. See, and everybody takes that on out that I'm endorsing this. I'm endorsing nobody. That just happened. KING: Senator Tom Harkin of Iowa says, "Back to the old Presidential politics now. More negative campaigning." PEROT: Well, my proposal to the volunteers is that we draw a line in the sand and tell these folks to stand for something and just fire their opposition research teams on day 1. And if they don't we don't even want to hear from them any more. KING: Deerpoint, Cal, hello. Q: Hello. Mr Perot. Former naval officer, my respects sir. We know that Bush and Clinton can repeat your words, but we also know that they do not really understand the problems that this country faces, and worst of all, we know that they don't know how to solve them. Question: It's being speculated that the White House has a revealing tax item on you and the question is; Has the White House and the IRS illegally digging into your taxes? PEROT: I don't know, but when you look at how much taxes I've paid in my life. And I pay them right down the center of the field, they don't have anything like that. But the way the game is played today, I am certain they have looked at every piece of paper that the IRS has ever had from me, but again, I am certainly 1 of this country's more prolific tax payers. My frustration is: I don't have more to show for it. I've paid for front row seats. I'm sitting in the bleachers waiting for the team to show up. KING: I guess it's public record. How much taxes do you pay? Like in 1991. PEROT: All told, I wish--I looked that up. KING: A ballpark figure. PEROT: Huge numbers. The total in my life is a staggering number. I'm privileged to be able to do that Larry, and I'm glad to be able to do that. But by golly, I'd like for them to spend it to build something for all these good people out there. KING: We met a group from Palm Beach, Fla. When we come back, there's a group that's been waiting patiently. We're glad we're able to carry over a little, so we'll hear from them in Sherman Oaks, Cal. There they are. We'll be back and hear from Mike Norris; their Perot coordinator right after this break. Don't go away. KING: Welcome back to Larry King Live. You're looking at the headquarters of the Los Angeles County Perot petition committee. They got over a million votes. A million people rather signed to put--a million 4--1 million 4 hundred thousand people signed ballots to put Perot's name on the ballot in California, where it will be by the way. And in Sherman Oaks is Mike Norris, that committee's co- coordinator. Mike, do you have a question or comment for Ross? Q: Ross, how are you tonight? PEROT: I'm great. Listen, I still remember those 2 rallies. That was a great day, wasn't it? Q: Yes. It sure was. Ross, for being the vehicle that allowed millions of Americans to unite and to teach us the real power that we have, we're grateful. I would like for you to understand however the anger that's out across the heartland of millions of volunteers who feel that we've climbed in the ring, and we're standing shoulder to shoulder and we don't feel that you've climbed into the ring with us. So please understand that anger. My question to you is: That as we go forward with this movement, as it must, we must address the social issues that are out there. Can we count on your financial support to help keep this movement alive? PEROT: Oh, absolutely. I'll be with you every step of the way in this role that we're talking about tonight. I'm totally comfortable that in this mode, what we're doing is good for our country. If you ever say, okay what's in Perot's mind. One thing. Am I doing the right thing for the country and the people? I don't have a personal agenda. I am very comfortable with the things we're talking about tonight being really good for our country. And I'll be delighted to participate in it and support it. KING: And chair it? PEROT: If they want me to, I'll be delighted to chair it, but that's not a cry--Let's assume, they said look Perot, we want your support and help, but we want you to sweep out the floor at night. I will play whatever role-- KING: But you will financially support it? PEROT: Financially, certainly. And I'll be glad to chair it if they want me to and lead it. To be a spokesman for it. But it's so precious, and you are so incredible. I wish you could have been in California with me. KING: Mike, does this idea wet your appetite? Q: Absolutely. It's more important then the man. It's more important then any of us. We've got to keep this movement alive and address the issues that were terminal to our society in February and they are still terminal to our society if we don't address them. KING: Would you agree that you have to get started on it right away? Q: Today. Action today. Mr Perot, I would invite you to come out to California and to meet with us out here. We know that our state leader is there and his is 1 voice. There are lots of voices out here and we'd like for you to come and listen to us. PEROT: That's exactly what we'll do. I agree with you that every day is precious. Clock's ticking down. And we certainly will do that. KING: And what will you--thank you Mike. What do you want President Bush and Bill Clinton to do? PEROT: I just want to lay out a platform that includes a lot of things. But it's not my-- KING: Do you want them to-- PEROT: Excuse me. Excuse me. We've got to have all our volunteers to say this is our platform. And that will take a little time, not a lot of time. Because we have a pretty good consensus among us about what we want to do. KING: And you want them to address-- PEROT: Then we will lay this out to them, and say now will you support this or not? And we'll get in great detail on the fundamental issues of the economy. KING: Will you also tell us what you think of the Republican and Democratic party platforms? PEROT: Well, you're asking me that extemporaneously. I think it would be better-- KING: They're going to have a platform. Democrats have one, Republicans are going to have one. PEROT: The Republicans will. I would suggest that from our point of view, we're more interested in what is their position on these things. Let them have their platforms and what have you, but we'll try to certainly have everything the Republicans need before they announce their platform. We want to be fair to the Democrats and give them a chance to review our positions. In particular, we're totally focused on the country and its future. KING: Would you sit down with both of them? PEROT: Oh certainly. I'd do anything that's good for this country. KING: Would you serve both of them? Supposing President Bush, or President Clinton said, "Ross, I'm elected. You've got this big party. It's now a 3d party. Come to Washington. Be Secretary of Commerce." PEROT: I would--let's assume that this group comes together and does what we're talking about. I need to stay with this group and not get tied inside the system. Now, let's assume there's an emergency of some kind and they want me to come up and work night and day for nothing. Again, I would go to my volunteers and I would say I think I probably need to go do that. The volunteers say, "Yeah, go ahead and do it." I'd go do it and come back. KING: This is probably going to be a party, isn't it? I mean, I don't know what else you could call this, but a party. PEROT: I would prefer not to call it a party because I think we have--again, we'll debate that and the volunteers decide-- KING: Okay. I don't want to give you a name. Semantics count. PEROT: We're sort of like an auditing firm here. Make sure that everybody's doing the right thing for the country. KING: Fort Lauderdale, Fla for Ross Perot. Q: Memphis, Tennesse. KING: I'm sorry. Memphis you're there. Go ahead. Q: Yeah, Mr Perot I would like to ask you can states take your name off the ballot without your permission, or how does that work? PEROT: Some states can, some states can't. Any state that wanted to take my name off the ballot; say if the volunteers wanted to and it required me to do it, I'd be glad to do it. KING: But you are not going to be overt to do it? PEROT: No. No, I'm just taking the reverse case. The volunteers get together and say we'd like to take Perot off the ballot, but under the law I'd have to take myself off-- KING: You would? PEROT: This is bottom line. KING: But you are going to do nothing overt to say take me off? PEROT: Oh no. No no. I'm just saying that's the worst case situation if they want me to. KING: Saint Paul, hello. Q: Hi, Ross. PEROT: How are you? Q: State coordinator from Minnesota. PEROT: Terrific. Q: We were with you from the start. We're still with you. PEROT: You guys are great. What are you turning in? Q: We're turning in next Tuesday. PEROT: That's what I heard today. Q: We've already made a big difference and that's-- KING: Wait, wait, wait. He's talking about turning in what? To put Perot on the ballot in Minnesota? Q: Yes I am. KING: And you're excited about this? Q: Oh, we're very excited about this. PEROT: Oh, of course. KING: You're not running. PEROT: We've been on the phone with these guys. They are the greatest in Minnesota. How many did you have to have, and how many are you turning in? Q: We had 2 thousand and we're building from 50,000. We needed 2000 and we're building from 20. KING: Wait a minute. You needed 2000 votes to get on the ballot in Minnesota. You are 50,000 plus. Q: Right. KING: And you are excited about this even though Ross is taking a turn here. Q: That's what I'm saying. And I called to ask him when and where are we going to get together so we can move forward? PEROT: Okay. I've been traveling all day today. Would you check with your state coordinator. Find out exactly when and where, because I think it's being set up right now. KING: For like the first of the week. PEROT: No. It's right away. And if you-- KING: Well, this is Friday. PEROT: I know. But it's like maybe this weekend. That's the reason I'd like you to know now. I was assured during the day that everybody had been contacted. But I'm sure you've been on the move all day today since you're bunting up. Check with your state coordinator, or call Dallas and we'll get the word right to you. KING: Ross, what would you say to the media? The collective media. Newspapers, print, us, television about covering this campaign? You've had experience from it-- PEROT: My only suggestion is that in the whole process, I think, unfortunately we've created an environment where the best people in this country, who can do the finest job in Washington would not consider running for office. And people need to think that through and say, "Does it really--are we helping or hurting the process by making it so demeaning and negative that nobody that could really do the job will get near the job?" For example: It's getting very difficult to get people to take appointed positions at the cabinet level, because of the grueling. Now if you want to see worse case, I'd go back to Clarence Thomas and Anita Hill. If it ever gets any lower then that, I don't want to be in the country. KING: Can you tell me in 30 seconds--pinpoint--How bad is the economy, really? PEROT: It's in a very fragile situation. KING: How bad? PEROT: We're too far in debt. Now, keep in mind: I wish I could tell you. It's like a weather forecast on the economy. It's not like physics. You can't say exactly when it will break, but we're at the point now where we need to go to work. We need to go to work in a careful, sure footed way. And the White House and Congress need to work night and day together. KING: We have 1 more caller coming in from Los Angeles. Hello. Q: Hello. Ross. It's Cher. I've been trying to get you for days, and I guess this is the only way I'm going to be able to get you. KING: Is this Cher? Hi Cher. Q: Hi Larry, how are you? KING: How are you. PEROT: Good to hear your voice. Q: I want to tell you something. I'm so passionate about what you're doing, and I feel so strong. I love my country so much. It's done so much for me. I would be willing to give up everything I'm doing and come and be 1 of the volunteers as long as I know that if I got into it, you wouldn't quit and that we could really do something. There's no way in good conscience I could endorse President Bush or Bill Clinton, because I do not believe that either one of them either knows or cares what's best for the country. I think they just talk good talk and I don't believe that they are going to do anything. And I'm frightened for our country, I'm frightened for my children. PEROT: Here's the key. Don't worry about quitting. But as we go deeper and deeper, if we come up with better ways to do it, we will adjust and shift. But-- Q: It's not adjusting and shifting that I worry about, it's that whether you like it or not, you are the focus. It's like you are the father of this patriot movement. Whether you like it or not, you have to be there. It's like every small movement, every child movement, every infant movement needs a father. And you have to be it, whether you like it or not. PEROT: I am happy to provide the leadership role. But in any organization I'm a part of--since human life is fragile, I want to make sure that this thing has a lot of steel in the foundation. And in a very short period time will go on with me or without me. That's just good business and I'm sure you agree with that. KING: Do you want Cher to contact you in Dallas? PEROT: Absolutely. KING: Cher. Did you mean that, that you would give up part of your career for this? PEROT: Now don't do that Cher, but I would love to have your help. Q: I'll tell you something: My country, this country has made--It's not--It's like I've made everything out of myself that I've wanted to make and it's no good for me to go on with seeing other people not being able to--you know, other people walking homeless in my town and people not being able to have a college education, and people of different races and cultures not loving one another and not wanting to help one another. And I swear to God, it's the most important thing. I know our country's in a terrible way, and I know economically we're at a place that's like being at the edge of a cliff. And if something doesn't happen, then I can't imagine what's going to happen to the rest of my children's future, and their children's future. PEROT: Well, you've summed up, very eloquently what millions of volunteers feel and these things that cause them to go out and work to get this done. I am really excited about meeting with the state coordinators and developing the next step and then perusing it aggressively. And the 1 thing that would be very precious is it would continue to always to bubble up from the grassroots, because that's where the common sense and wisdom come from. KING: We're out of time. Thank you Cher. Thank you Ross. PEROT: Thank you. KING: We have not heard the last of Ross Perot. Can we say that? PEROT: Well, it's up to the volunteers. KING: We thank you for joining us for this hour and a half of Larry King Live. We have been with you for a special extra half hour tonight because of Mr Perot's appearance and the news of yesterday and today. We'll be back Monday night with Ambassador Bob Strauss. Next Wednesday night, our TNT special: Larry King Extra with the likes of Jack Lemmon, Kirk Douglas, and Anthony Quinn. And Vice President Quayle next Wednesday. Thanks for joining us on Larry King Live for Ross Perot. Yours truly Larry King. See you Monday.