THE WHITE HOUSE Office of the Press Secretary ______________________________________________________________ For Immediate Release August 10, 1993 PRESS BRIEFING BY DIRECTOR OF COMMUNICATIONS MARK GEARAN The Briefing Room 4:27 P.M. EDT MR. GEARAN: Let me begin by apologizing for being late, and thank you all for coming. Sincerely, though, we're sorry we're getting delayed coming in here. Q Why? MR. GEARAN: We apologize for that. Let me begin -- Q And it won't happen again? MR. GEARAN: And it will not happen again. We promise you that. (Laughter.) A late lunch on my part delayed me. Let me begin with a few remarks about Vince Foster's writing, which I assume is most of your interest here. Vince Foster was a very highly respected and certainly well-liked and able member of this administration. At this time, particularly, the thoughts of everyone in the White House are with his wife, with his children, and with his many friends here in Washington and in Arkansas. The sentiments in the note are the comments of someone who was obviously troubled about matters he encountered at work. Certainly those who have known him here have gone back in their minds trying to remember conversations and discussions they have had with him, searching for clues to the question, why. To my knowledge, and certainly even with the benefit of hindsight, his tragic death is very much a shock and a surprise to his colleagues and to people here. I don't think his colleagues here at the White House ever fully realized what Vince was going through during his time here. As all of you know, the writing was found torn up in the bottom of his briefcase. It was unsigned. It was undated. We do not even know how seriously Mr. Foster may have taken the note. We don't even know when he wrote it, since it is undated. So as we go through this, let me be clear just from the start, I will not attempt to characterize what Mr. Foster might have meant by certain phrases or sentences. It would not only be inappropriate, but it is certainly beyond anyone's capacity to interpret many of the words that he wrote here. Let me take any of your questions. Q Mark, would you explain what he meant -- well, you can't explain what he meant -- can you tell us what information you have about the line that says, "The Usher's Office plotted to have excessive costs incurred taking advantage of Kaki and HRC." Give us any information on that and on what the costs have been for the redecoration to date, and whether it is believed that there are any cost overruns. MR. GEARAN: Okay, let me -- Q Would you repeat her question please? MR. GEARAN: Certainly. The questions involve the reference in the writing regarding the renovations in the White House and Kaki and HRC. Let me just begin with what we think at this point. As I said at the beginning and I think I'll be compelled to repeat, in many of these instances we do not know what he meant. We really can't speculate, in certain sense, because we're not aware of what he may have been thinking at that time. We don't know when he wrote it so in a certain sense by definition, we are not able to speculate in a way with any more reason than many of you. We do not believe there any plot in any way for any costs related to the renovation of the White House. I would observe to you that, as the Justice Department announced this afternoon, the Office Public Integrity at the Justice Department, which has reviewed it and Mr. Heymann said today, "While the inquiry into these assertions is not totally complete, I am told that based on its interviews today, nothing has led the Public Integrity Section to suspect any criminal conduct that would then have to be investigated. So we are not aware of any criminal conduct or -- Q Well, not criminal conduct, but can you tell us what it has cost and whether there has been a cost problem? MR. GEARAN: I am not expert enough on the details of all of the renovation. I can tell you -- and I would direct you to Lisa Caputo and the First Lady's Office, who can go through the types of the numbers. Q They say they don't have those numbers. MR. GEARAN: We can work with that with the First Lady's Office in terms of the specifics of the renovation. Q Can you get them to us today in time for our deadlines? Q Yeah, in 20 minutes? MR. GEARAN: In 20 minutes? I'm sorry, Bill. Q Can you get them to us today in time for our deadlines? MR. GEARAN: Why don't we work on that. Let me just -- Q We called an hour ago and asked that office and they said that you were going to have that information at this briefing. MR. GEARAN: The information of the -- let me tell you a bit about the renovation and help you out as much as I possibly can. The renovation here is conducted by, historically, through the White House Historical Society. That's the operational body that works with the renovation of the White House. There's -- again, I can't tell you all of the rooms that might be involved, but it involves some of the public rooms -- the Oval Office, the Treaty Room -- some of the residence rooms and a combination of that. I would have to -- Q Why don't you have somebody who can tell us? MR. GEARAN: We certainly will. Q Why are you out here if you don't know it? MR. GEARAN: That's a fair question. I'm asking myself. (Laughter.) Among your many qualities, mind-reading is really one of them. (Laughter.) Q What are the other ones? MR. GEARAN: Her other qualities are too long to note. But let me go back -- I'm sorry. Q Good lunch appetite. MR. GEARAN: Lunch appetite, yes, late lunch. So we will have to work with you on the numbers. I am not expert enough on renovating. I'm trying to sell my house -- Q Why was he concerned about it? How did it come into his bailiwick at all? MR. GEARAN: Well, as Deputy Counsel in the Counsel's Office, part of his responsibility and his job was the legal matters affecting the residence. And so in that context he was made aware of it. But I can tell you at this point, for your purposes, and we will work with you, but we do not believe any plot. The Public Integrity Unit that's been looking into it has indicated that they have no suspect of any criminal -- Q Did Mrs. Clinton ever say anything? Q Was Mrs. Clinton being involved -- I mean, was she being accused of overspending or anything in that way? MR. GEARAN: No, no. Mrs. Clinton as the First Lady is involved with the renovation, but no. Q Well, why was the Public Integrity unit looking into it? MR. GEARAN: That's what the Deputy Attorney General directed. Q Could we have some more on camera here, Mark? Q Excuse me? MR. GEARAN: The Deputy Attorney General, as he announced today -- I think he provided this at his briefing. They wanted -- Q And it began when -- the Public Integrity Unit's investigation? MR. GEARAN: I don't know. I'd have to direct you to Justice. Q It began after this note was discovered? MR. GEARAN: I would assume so. Let me read his -- Q Before you go on, can this briefing be on camera? MR. GEARAN: I think we should just continue the five- minute deal. Let me read you this. This is from Phil Heymann to the Acting Attorney General for the Criminal Division and the Counsel of the Office of Professional Responsibility. "Attached is an unsigned, undated reproduction of notes, the originals of which the laboratory has determined were written by Vince Foster. I would like OPR -- which is Office of Professional Responsibility -- to review the assertion in the notes dealing with the FBI and to give me its recommendation as to what, if any, further inquiry is necessary and appropriate. I would like the criminal division to review the other assertions in its notes and to give me its recommendation as to what, if any, further inquiry is necessary and appropriate. Please contact me or David Margolis if you have any questions." So I need to direct you to Justice for it -- Q In the 10 days since this note was discovered, who has seen the note? Has the President seen the note? Who else has handled it? MR. GEARAN: Again, in terms of the handling, what was concluded today was that the White House handling of it was reasonable. They felt the time line was reasonable. Q Who saw the note? MR. GEARAN: The President did not see the note. He was apprised of the contents of the note. Q When? Q Mark, you're covering things that weren't covered at Justice from a White House perspective? Q This briefing should be on camera. MR. GEARAN: I don't care. My face is lovely on camera. Q Can we get the lights? MR. GEARAN: Sure. Q Wait a second. Can you back up to my question please? Who saw the note and when was the President apprised of the contents of the note? MR. GEARAN: Who saw -- Q Who in the White House handled this note -- kind of a chain of evidence kind of thing -- who at the White House handled the note? MR. GEARAN: I will do the best I can, but I need to state at the beginning that in terms of the handling of the note, which had been an issue that the Justice Department reviewed -- just for everyone here, because if you weren't at Justice, the conclusion was it was reasonable. Q The Park Police guy didn't say that at all. The Park Police Chief said that the White House should have turned that note over much sooner than it did. MR. GEARAN: I think he said, from what I understand is, that it was reasonable. But anyway, let me get to the point of your question. The legal counsel -- associate and the legal counsel and the Chief of Staff and I'm not -- David Gergen, the counselor. I'm not familiar with anyone else who -- you mean who physically saw the note, was your question? I believe that's right. Let me take that and let me report back to you if there's any others. Q But related to that question is the question of this information about the Usher's Office has been available inside the White House since that note was discovered and read by people on the staff here. Has Mrs. Clinton been asked anything about the contents of that note? About her suspicions about something going on? Has the interior decorator been asked anything about it? What -- has anybody tried to come to a conclusion on what it was that persuaded Vince Foster that there was something going on that could be a problem? MR. GEARAN: We don't know is the answer -- Q Nobody? MR. GEARAN: -- to what he might have been thinking or speculating at this point. I can tell you, as Heymann mentioned, that the Office of Public Integrity, while it's not complete, has made a preliminary inquiry. And that was the quote that I -- Q Mrs. Clinton hasn't been asked about this note? MR. GEARAN: Not to my knowledge, but you might want to -- Q Is it the assumption then -- MR. GEARAN: You should talk to the Justice Department. They're the ones -- Q Is it the assumption then that Vince Foster was making this up? This was out of whole cloth? MR. GEARAN: I have no ability to answer that question. We do not believe that there is any, as he says, plot. We note that the Public Integrity Unit has looked into it. Beyond that, I'm unable to speculate what he might have meant. Q Was anyone else in his office working on this issue with him? Any other members of the Counsel's Office working on a possible cost problem involving the renovations? MR. GEARAN: No. Q Have they been asked? MR. GEARAN: Well, it has been reviewed since then and his files have been turned over, but I'm not aware of anyone else in -- Q What was found when it was reviewed since then? And did you ask the Usher's Office? MR. GEARAN: We did not. The Justice Department did, to the best of my knowledge. I can detail more from the briefing that might have come up today at Justice who they might have talked to. I'm not aware of who specifically in the White House they spoke to. You need to check in with Justice on that. Q Mark, do you or does anybody in the White House believe that the press has received illegal benefits? Can you set that accusation in his letter to rest? MR. GEARAN: I have no reason to believe that that is the case. I don't know. My sense is that we're not aware of any facts to support that statement. There have been articles published. That might have been where he was -- what he was referring to, but we have no basis in fact. Q Do you think that anybody is paying too much for renovation, that is a reason for somebody else to suicide themselves? MR. GEARAN: I can't make any judgment of the reasons or speculate on the reasons for suicide. Q Is that considered the suicide note as such? MR. GEARAN: I'm sorry. Q Is it viewed as a suicide note? MR. GEARAN: I think it is viewed as a note of a writing who was troubled by matters at work. That, indeed, it's a sad commentary in many ways on life in Washington and it's, frankly, given many of us pause for thought, particularly the reference that Vince makes at the close of his writing. Q Mark, do you agree with his characterization? MR. GEARAN: Assessment? I think -- I believe that the note is, as I said, a sad commentary on life in Washington. I think it's someone who had perhaps a loss of perspective here. But we really can't know many of the reasons here. Suicide is a painful and an irrational act. And there's always an element that we will never know -- many of us. Q Do you have any idea what the reference to Republicans covering up a prior investigation is in reference to? MR. GEARAN: We're not aware of any facts to substantiate what he might have meant. Again, it's hard for us to truly say what he may have been referring to. He may have believed that there problems in the travel office that predated our administration. Those have been noted from time to time in the press -- I don't know that. I can't tell you that with certainty. But we are certainly not aware of any misrepresentation or cover-up or anything that's suggested. Q Mark, do you think you can shed some light on when you said the FBI lied in their report to the AG? Do you know what things they lied about? And also, what is the prior investigation that he's referring to that the GOP covered up? MR. GEARAN: Well, in terms of the FBI and the report, we have no reason to believe that the FBI lied. I can't speculate as to what he might have been referring to with any certainty, obviously. But I would refer you to -- in the travel management office review, there was a reference to differing recollections of conversations or events, and in the instance of the travel office, management review referred to the different recollections of a conversation between the FBI agents and Bill Kennedy. That might have been the reference there. Q So what about the prior investigations that the GOP has lied and misrepresented its knowledged role and covered up a prior investigation of the travel office? MR. GEARAN: What I said earlier was, again, we don't really know, but prior instances of problems in the travel office predating our administration have been noted or observed. Whether of not that was the case, we don't know. Q Since Vince Foster's suicide there have been discussions in the White House amongst people talking about why he might have done it, and from that has come out a fully portrait of people having talked to him before his death and there were some signs that he was troubled. In any time in that process of reflecting on those conversations has anyone come across recollections of conversations on the topic the Usher, the FBI, the charge about the Republicans that he talked about -- not that you don't think that there are any charges are true -- but does anyone know of any time that he talked about any of those topics? MR. GEARAN: Well, the topics of the travel office and others have been ones that have been well discussed within the White House. No one ever thought here, that any of the references here --I mean, it should go without saying, but by definition, was to a point -- as I said at the beginning we were not aware clearly of the depth of his feelings by definition. People would have done something here otherwise. Q There was no discussion, no one had discussions with him about any of these more specific types of topics than just the travel office? MR. GEARAN: I think in the list of things -- I mean, we're not aware of -- we were not aware that the kind of references that he observed were ones that would have prompted any kind of action that he eventually took. Q May I just follow up on a question about the Usher's Office? May I take it that some other official in the Counsel's Office now has whatever portfolio or case or whatever you care to call it that he would have had that would have brought these matters to his attention? And may I take it further that someone is following up on this matter, this seeming allegation of excessive costs -- to find out what this was about and to determine what it is? MR. GEARAN: Yes. Q So the White House is on the case, so to speak? MR. GEARAN: Yes. Let me be clear. Q What did he say, sir? Q Who would that be? MR. GEARAN: I'm sorry -- keep going. Q Can you just tell me who would that be that's following this up? MR. GEARAN: Bernie Nussbaum is assigning the different pieces of work within the Counsel's Office that Vince had been charged with to the other counsels in the office. I don't know who specifically has his portfolio. We can get you that. Q Well, since this has tumbled into the public here, can you assure us that what findings you will have on this apparent allegation and this matter will be made public? MR. GEARAN: Well -- Q Will you kindly tell us what you just asked? MR. GEARAN: Certainly. The question was whether the findings that we have from -- let me restate your question right, Brit -- but the findings that we determine in relations to the Usher's Office, will that be made public? Q With regard to the issues raised by this question. MR. GEARAN: Okay. Let me say two things in that regard. First of all, as we've said, we do not believe that there is this plot that exists. Secondly, the Office of Public Integrity has been asked by -- as I read -- the Deputy Attorney General to look into this and they have determined in a preliminary way in this instance that nothing they have reviewed thus far has led to any criminal conduct in any way. Q Sir -- Q Go ahead, Mark. Wait a minute. Let him finish what he was saying. MR. GEARAN: They may be helping me out. This may be in your interest. I'll be right back. Hang in there. * * * * Q Round two. MR. GEARAN: You're all still here. Let me tell you just how we have observed the time in, rather than delaying you, going to the First Lady's Office and to try to assist you as completely as we can. I'm suddenly now a genius on the renovation. As best as I can give you rather than delaying you any more than what we already have, and let me just say at the beginning, for a lot of the real detail on the renovation, you really do need to visit with the First Lady's Office. But let me help you as best I can. The issue that we believe is that -- as we talked about previously -- from the plot to -- all of that stuff that we've already discussed. But it is very difficult for us to speculate just what he may have meant in this regard. One of the things that we can suggest to you is a difference in the estimates that have gone on in the Usher's Office regarding the renovation from the Usher's Office and the decorator, who is Kaki, mentioned in the writing. Kaki Hockersmith is the decorator -- interior designer who assisted in planning the renovations at the White House. Q What were the renovations? MR. GEARAN: Okay, let me get into this. Anyway, so in terms of what this might have meant was there was a difference in the estimates at the -- from the Usher's Office to the decorator's office and that change is one that Vince was apparently concerned about at a certain point of time. Q What were the renovations? MR. GEARAN: Let me get into this. There were two estimates that differed. Let me just get into this and then we can go through. He was concerned about the discrepancy in costs and asked the Usher's Office -- he, Vince, asked the Usher's Office to provide an explanation for the change in estimates. We can only assume that Mr. Foster was unclear about the costs because we do not believe that he had actually reviewed the receipts relating to the renovation that included labor and upholstery and the charges that were incurred, and is continuing. The renovation is not complete. What happened here -- let me go through this -- what happened here, as we understand it, is a miscommunication between the decorator and the Usher's Office. For example, the Usher's Office was not aware of the certain time deadlines that the decorator was going to impose on the work being done. Similarly, the decorator didn't understand what the imposed deadlines would mean for overtime labor. Therefore, there was a difference in the estimates that were given from within a few month period. That might have accounted -- Q Difference in estimates or difference in estimates and costs incurred? MR. GEARAN: Estimates at this point. The renovation is continuing. And at the end of the entire renovation, the plan, apparently, of every renovation -- what they usually do, I am told, is to provide a report on what was done, how it was completed. This -- Q How big was the -- MR. GEARAN: Okay, let me go through. The first estimate that was given in March was for $250,000. Q Whose was that? MR. GEARAN: That was the arrangement between the decorator and the Usher's Office. Q Whose estimate? MR. GEARAN: That's what they agreed to at that time. That's what they agreed to at that time. Q What was this for? You haven't told -- MR. GEARAN: The second was -- Q Why don't you tell us what the renovations were for? Q Sarah. MR. GEARAN: The second, which was approximately $377,000, was given in early June. Q These were both given by the decorator to the usher? MR. GEARAN: No, these were the estimates that -- the initial one that the usher and the decorator worked out. What we had -- what resulted was apparently a miscommunication as to what that estimate involved. When the price -- Q What is his name? MR. GEARAN: The usher's name is Gary Walters. What resulted in the intervening, I guess it is two months, three months, was the increase in the cost. That's what Vince was concerned about. After discussions between Vince and the Usher's Office, most of these were resolved. In a comparison of the receipts and the charges incurred that has been reviewed by the Counsel's Office that has been -- seemingly, there's no issue that we need to be concerned about. Q So the first estimate came from -- was what they agreed upon -- MR. GEARAN: They worked it out. Q The second one was when the decorator came back and said it's going to cost this much more because of increased labor costs and OT caused by the deadline? And that's where the dispute -- Q The decorator or the Usher's Office -- Q Who came back with the -- MR. GEARAN: Well, see, I don't know if anyone came back. I think that -- Q Whose was the $377,000? MR. GEARAN: That was the new estimate based on the charges coming in -- due to this miscommunication. Q From the decorator? MR. GEARAN: Well, the decorator, the overtime, the different things that go into this. Q So the $377,000 is not an estimate. It's real costs? MR. GEARAN: No, it's an estimate. It's an estimate. Q What are we talking about -- Q It's a revised estimate. MR. GEARAN: It's a revised estimate. For those of you -- there you go. Brit's apparently built a house, he knows about revised estimates. Q Why don't you tell us what the renovations were? MR. GEARAN: Let me tell you as best I can about what the renovations were. And for some of this, you really do need to speak with Lisa. What I've tried to do is give you enough as the time is approaching. The renovations include both the public space, renovations to parts of the Oval Office, the Treaty Room in the Residence, and some of the public and private space in the Executive Residence. Q Is this private donations? Who's paying for it? MR. GEARAN: Private donations. Q Who is paying for this? Private or taxpayers? MR. GEARAN: Private donations. Q Mark, what is -- two questions. Could you move Sarah up front so she can hear things? Second of all, what exactly does the usher do? (Laughter.) MR. GEARAN: Which one of you wants to leave? (Laughter.) Q It just seems like it would make it easier for her and everybody. MR. GEARAN: Okay. What's the second question? Q What does the usher -- I'm not clear how the usher fits in. Explain who does what? I mean, who oversees the decorator? MR. GEARAN: Yes. The Usher's Office manages the Executive Residence staff, whose responsibilities include the care and maintenance of the historic Executive Residence, its furnishings and preparations for official and ceremonial presidential events and the operation of the First Family's household. There's a Chief Usher and then four assistant ushers. Q Does the decorator work for the usher by contract -- in other words, he is getting 20 percent of whatever the cost of this is? MR. GEARAN: I need to send you to Lisa on that. Q In other words, the decorator works for the usher? MR. GEARAN: The decorator works for the First Family. But the Usher's Office coordinates the Executive Residence. Q Can I just clarify one thing -- why would Vince Foster be at all interested in what the ushers and the decorators and this whole project -- how does he fit in? MR. GEARAN: Well, as Deputy Counsel, one of his jobs was to work on any legal issues or to -- on the residence issues in the White House. Q But isn't that a little junior for the Deputy Counsel to be getting involved in those kinds of minor matters? MR. GEARAN: I don't think so. Q Other than a misunderstanding, was there a real fight between them? MR. GEARAN: No, I think it was a miscommunication, is how I can best interpret it. Q Between who? MR. GEARAN: Between the Usher's Office and the decorator. Q Mark, the note seems to exhibit something more than just discouragement or depression about the way things are going. There's hints of conspiracies and cover-ups. I mean, more than hints. Has there ever been any indication from the people who've known him for years, including the Clintons, that he ever exhibited this tendency or this concern about broader plots being waged against the President? Was it right in that case to put him in a position of this kind of responsibility? MR. GEARAN: John, I can't tell you. I'm not qualified to make some judgments on his state of mind. I can tell you that the view here is that it's a sad document and someone who was clearly troubled about his work. Beyond that, I am not -- Q But is it the conclusion of the Clintons or those who knew him best, including Mr. McLarty, that his six months in Washington really pushed him to the edge? Or was there any sort of trail before that of disturbed thinking? MR. GEARAN: I think people here at the White House remain shocked and surprised. I think if people had realized the depth of his feelings there would have been a different action precipitated. Q Who is Kaki and how is it that she got the job of doing the decoration and so forth? MR. GEARAN: You're going to have to check in with Lisa on some of this stuff. Let me tell you who she is. Q Was there competitive bidding, for example, or was she brought in because she's a friend of Hillary's or who is she? MR. GEARAN: She's a Little Rock interior designer. And beyond that, what previous works, what her clients are, I think I need to send you to Lisa. Q She's presumably, a friend of Hillary Clinton's. She's from Little Rock -- is that a presumption, or what's -- MR. GEARAN: I assume they're -- traditionally, the First Family selects an interior designer. I don't know what's -- Q Were the renovations approved by the White House's Historical Commission? MR. GEARAN: I believe that's right. I don't know what "approved" means, but the White House Historical Society -- Q Changing the Treaty Room, now that's a very historical room. MR. GEARAN: You bet. Q and the Oval Office and things like that are certainly -- we ought to have from you some proof that the White House Historical Commission, which approves everything that changed -- MR. GEARAN: I think on some of the specific on the renovation -- the best I can do is to how they did it to send you to Lisa. What meetings were held, how that was done, I'm not -- Q Mark, has the Justice Department notified anybody in the Counsel's Office or throughout the White House staff that White House officials were under possible ethics violations -- investigation for possible ethics violations in conjunction with the handling of the travel office seven? MR. GEARAN: I don't know the answer to -- let me take the question. I mean, I don't know if the Counsel's Office was notified -- I don't know the answer to that. Q Lawyers to the travel office seven have urged the Justice Department Public Integrity section to expand the investigation beyond the seven to look at possible ethics violations by the officials involved in the firings. MR. GEARAN: I don't know the answer. Q You don't know whether he received a call from Justice saying we may look into that? MR. GEARAN: I don't know. I can post an answer. Let me take a few more. Q Given Vice Foster's involvement in this and in the FACA case, was there any way in which he -- it's fair to characterize his role in the Counsel's Office as having responsibility for those issues pertaining to the First Lady? Did that tend to be in his portfolio? MR. GEARAN: He had a broad portfolio. As Bernie Nussbaum said, when they approached their job, that they were partners in the Counsel's Office, building a law firm. And they approached it like that -- bringing in the Associate counsels. I think we can say quite a bit about Vince's work in the Counsel's Office and that as a extremely able lawyer. Q Just to follow up. Partners in law firms have different responsibilities. Did the First Lady's work and legal needs tend to fall on his desk rather than that of other attorneys? MR. GEARAN: I'm not aware, aside from the renovation and the task force any other instances. But certainly those two were. He assisted in the Supreme Court nomination, as you know, directly for the President. Someone that the President sought for his own advice. I would not narrow it to that, but it included those two instances. Let me just take a couple more questions. Q Mark, did anybody besides Vince Foster raise any questions about these estimates into the redecoration of the White House? And is there an ongoing investigation into any of these allegations in this letter, whether it be the cost estimates, the FBI lies to the AG, the press covering up illegal benefits, or is there an ongoing investigation into any of these issues? MR. GEARAN: I would have to refer you to Justice for the status of those investigations. Heymann, in the letter I mentioned, this morning directed Professional Responsibility and Public Integrity to do that. And the investigation -- Q And did anybody else raise any questions about the cost estimates? Anyone besides Vince Foster? MR. GEARAN: Not that I'm aware of. Q What was Bernie Nussbaum's response to these statements and allegations in this letter? Is he as baffled by them as you appear to be? MR. GEARAN: I think Bernie would share in our assessment that it's, most of all, a sad commentary on Washington. One more question. Q Do you have any comment about the line in here about the Wall Street Journal? Is there any degree to which the Journal is being blamed? MR. GEARAN: No, we let it stand as is. We're not aware of -- Q Why do you think it's a sad commentary on Washington? Q You said earlier that -- are we to believe from the sum total of your statements today that the White House Counsel's Office could be involved in something as trivial as the new curtains in the residence area, but that there was never any conversation in the last 10 days that you folks have had access to this note with Mrs. Clinton about any of this or anybody in the White House? MR. GEARAN: Let me not mislead you and let me correct this. What I would like to have said was that Vince's role -- and including the Health Care Task Force was one of the things he worked on -- many issues of nominations including the Supreme Court nominee, and in this instance, some matters relating to legal work concerning the Executive Residence. He was not involved in the renovation, but when the instance of this apparent miscommunication came before him, he felt it is, apparently, role to look into it. That's what I meant to suggest. Q the White House Counsel's Office have that much input into the workings of the First Lady's -- a broad range of the First Lady's other activities, there has been no attempt by anybody in the White House Counsel's Office to talk to Mrs. Clinton about the contents of this note? MR. GEARAN: I'm not aware that anyone from the White House Counsel's Office has done that. I can check that for you, Gwen. Certainly her staff -- we have discussed it with the staff. No one is aware of any plot about the excessive charges. People are aware of this issue, of the miscommunication. Q Do you find it inconceivable that Mrs. Clinton would not have been apprised of the contents of this note? MR. GEARAN: Let me -- Q Why do you think this is a sad commentary -- MR. GEARAN: We'll have to take the question. I don't know. Q on Washington? I mean, it's a sad commentary, it seems to me, on the White House. MR. GEARAN: Well, I think everyone can make their own judgments. That's my view. I guess it was an answer to the last question -- to the last reference in Vince's letter that I think was most powerful to people here. Let me end there so you can all -- Q Since Mr. Nussbaum and Mr. Foster worked together as partners, so Mr. Nussbaum should have known the cases he was on. How is it that the one is so troubled that he's taking his own life and the other one not at all? MR. GEARAN: Well, I think suicide is always -- in some ways has an element of mystery. It's an irrational act. And I am not personally able to detail to you any set of objective reasons for what is inherently an irrational act. Thank you. END 5:09 P.M. EDT #107-0810