Subject: Re: Name clash in prospective package

From: Lars Wirzenius <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 17:32:32 +0300

Someone asked me in private e-mail about packages not touching /usr/local:
> And /usr/local/emacs/site-lisp, /usr/local/octave/site/  and things like
> that?

I thought I'd answer in public.

I feel it is inappropriate for packages to create such directories without
asking.  /usr/local should be in the total control of the sysadmin.  If
they ask, then it's OK to create them.

That creates some extra interactivity for installation scripts, but perhaps
we could create a suitable file (/etc/default?) where such answers could
be stored.  If we do it right, it should be possible to collect the
stored-answer files and re-do the installation on a new system without
having to answer any questions.  This might make it easier to install
things on many identical computers.

-- 
Lars Wirzenius <[email-masked]> <http://www.iki.fi/liw/>
Please don't Cc: me when replying to my message on a mailing list.

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 96 13:28 EDT

Lars> Someone asked me in private e-mail about packages not touching
  Lars> /usr/local:
  Lars>>And /usr/local/emacs/site-lisp, /usr/local/octave/site/ and things like
  Lars>> that?
  Lars>  I thought I'd answer in public.
  Lars> 
  Lars> I feel it is inappropriate for packages to create such directories
  Lars> without asking.  /usr/local should be in the total control of the
  Lars> sysadmin.  If they ask, then it's OK to create them.

We discussed this qiestion recently, you should be able to find that in the
debian-devel logs of last months.

As I recall the consensus, it was decide to create these empty directories
because all the programs (emacs, octave, perl, tex, ...) expect them to
exist.

--
Dirk Eddelb"uttel                             http://qed.econ.queensu.ca/~edd

---

From: Lars Wirzenius <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 22:55:21 +0300

> because all the programs (emacs, octave, perl, tex, ...) expect them to

I'm just voicing my disagreement with the consensus (but not trying to
change it).

But I would like packages to ask if they should touch anything in
/usr/local.

---

From: "Brian C. White" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 13:41:20 -0400

> they ask, then it's OK to create them.

I don't see a problem with packages creating directories and other
necessary framework in /usr/local.  In some cases, this can be quite
complex and without which it isn't possible for there to be "local"
extensions.

                                        Brian
                               ( [email-masked] )

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    In theory, theory and practice are the same.  In practice, they're
not.

---

From: Lars Wirzenius <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 02:58:37 +0300

"Brian C. White":
> necessary framework in /usr/local.  

It's a matter of principle.  /usr/local is the domain of the sysadmin.
Debian packages should not touch it, unless they ask for permission.

For instance, there's no guarantee that /usr/local/lib exists, or that
the admin wants it to exist, or that it won't cause any trouble if it
does exist.  I can't think of anything that would break, but admins
are allowed to do funny things in /usr/local.

> In some cases, this can be quite complex and without which it isn't
> possible for there to be "local" extensions.

I quite agree that it should be easy to set up such complex things, but
not without asking.

But I guess I'm somewhat lonely on this one.  Anyway, if I were an
admin, I wouldn't use /usr/local, because there's too many programs 
(and I'm not talking about the two Debian packages) that make assumptions
about it.

---

From: Richard Kaszeta <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 20:28:23 -0500

>(and I'm not talking about the two Debian packages) that make assumptions

Not completely alone---I'd prefer prompting about /usr/local.  Why?
Because /usr/local on all our machines here (not just debian) is an
nfs-mounted directory, and typically mounted readonly or root-squash
so that I know nothing on the client machines is going to be able to
diddle with it.

Prompting about /usr/local is one of the little things packages could
do that make life easier on those of us that try to maintain large
numbers of debian machines.

-- 
Richard W Kaszeta 			Graduate Student/Sysadmin
[email-masked]			University of MN, ME Dept
http://www2.me.umn.edu/~kaszeta