Subject: installation notes

From: Sebastian Kuzminsky <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 18:20:56 -0600

Hello, i'm a new Debian convert.  I have been using the ftp method
of dselect to install and update Debian 1.1b on a few machines.  I
have a few questions and comments on the installation/maintenance
procedure.

   In all i am very happy with the quality of the Debian distribution.
The installation went very smoothly, and most of the few bugs/hickups
i found have since been fixed.

   The Packages files not always up to date.  This causes the dselect
tool to think version X of a particular package is available from the
ftp server, when in reality the package available is X+epsilon.  This
causes dselect to try to retrieve a non-existing file, and it fails.
   This in turn causes some dependencies to fail.

   For example, the Packages file in unstable/ currently thinks that
the available version of xforms is 0.80j-2, but the file present in
the unstable/binary/x11 directory is identified as version 0.80j-3.  

   A couple of packages are missing some of the install scripts.  For
example sudo.  Here is the installation error.  I guess this should
be directed to the maintainer of the sudo package?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Setting up sudo ...
dpkg (subprocess): unable to execute post-installation script: No such file or directory
dpkg: error processing sudo (--install):
 subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 2
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

   The default system init scripts have two shortcomings in my mind.

   kerneld should be started before ANYTHING else happens, with the
possible exception of a root filesystem check.  The reason for this
is that it may be needed to load binary-format modules, or
md-personalities, etc.  I had my system lock up during boot because
i have swap on a raid0 md device, and i compiled raid0 as a module.

   Also, "mdadd -ar" doesnt work.  The mdtools man pages are wrong.  
The workaround is to mdadd and mdrun each md-device individually.

   All in all i am very happy to have discovered the Debian
distribution.

Sebastian Kuzminsky
[email-masked]

---

From: Scott Barker <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 19:59:33 -0600 (MDT)

> have a few questions and comments on the installation/maintenance

Where is the option for this ftp method? I'd love to give it a try, but it's
not listed in the access methods of dpkg-1.2.6elf

-- 
Scott Barker
Linux Consultant
[email-masked]
http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~barkers/   (under construction)

[ I try to reply to all e-mail within 5 days. If you don't  ]
[ get a response by then, I probably didn't get your e-mail ]
[ (we have a sometimes sporadic connection to the internet) ]

"Whenever I hear anyone arguing for slavery, I feel a strong impulse to see it
   tried on him personally."
   - Abraham Lincoln

---

From: Scott Barker <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 19:59:33 -0600 (MDT)

---

From: Guy Maor <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 23:56:34 -0500 (CDT)

>    This in turn causes some dependencies to fail.

The scripts that update Packages run every day at about noon, PDT.  I
typically install packages in the evenings, so you're right that the
files are not always up-to-date.

I'll think about running the scripts by hand after I install.

> Here is the installation error.  I guess this should

You should file a bug against sudo.  Read /debian/doc/bug-reporting.txt
on any mirror for instructions.

> i have swap on a raid0 md device, and i compiled raid0 as a module.

But swap should be turned on before doing any memory-hungry things,
like fsck for example.  kerneld is already started pretty early.  You
can rename the S files in /etc/rc2.d (changing their numbers) if you
want to change the order.

My advice is not to compile raid0 as a module.  It'll never be removed,
you realize, so there's really no benefit to compiling it as a module.

Guy

---

From: Guy Maor <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 23:56:34 -0500 (CDT)

Guy

---

From: Rob Browning <[email-masked]>
Date: 13 Jun 1996 00:50:15 -0500

> not listed in the access methods of dpkg-1.2.6elf

You have to install dpkg-ftp.

--
Rob

---

From: Rob Browning <[email-masked]>
Date: 13 Jun 1996 00:50:15 -0500

--
Rob

---

From: [email-masked] (Heiko Schlittermann)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 08:18:32 +0200 (MET DST)

Guy Maor wrote:
: 
: On Wed, 12 Jun 1996, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
: >    The Packages files not always up to date.  This causes the dselect
: > tool to think version X of a particular package is available from the
: > ftp server, when in reality the package available is X+epsilon.  This
: > causes dselect to try to retrieve a non-existing file, and it fails.
: >    This in turn causes some dependencies to fail.
: 
: The scripts that update Packages run every day at about noon, PDT.  I
: typically install packages in the evenings, so you're right that the
: files are not always up-to-date.

Woah ... could you post that script?  (Since I not always get a new
Package file if I fetched a new package and since I don't want to fetch
all the updated *deb files only for the sake of a synced Package file.)

Heiko
public pgp : finger [email-masked]
fingerprint: A1 7D F6 7B 69 73 48 35  E1 DE 21 A7 A8 9A 77 92

---

From: [email-masked] (Heiko Schlittermann)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 08:18:32 +0200 (MET DST)

Guy Maor wrote:
: 

Heiko

---

From: [email-masked] (Heiko Schlittermann)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 08:12:50 +0200 (MET DST)

Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
: 

:    The Packages files not always up to date.  This causes the dselect
: tool to think version X of a particular package is available from the
: ftp server, when in reality the package available is X+epsilon.  This
: causes dselect to try to retrieve a non-existing file, and it fails.
:    This in turn causes some dependencies to fail.

Yes -- so a question to all the other readers  and/or maintainers and/or
Ian:  is there (I'm sure, it is ;-) a script that scans available *.deb
files and creates the Packages file?  (Since sometime I retrieve a
updated version of a *.deb file and want dselect know of this.

:    A couple of packages are missing some of the install scripts.  For
: example sudo.  Here is the installation error.  I guess this should
: be directed to the maintainer of the sudo package?
: 
: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
: Setting up sudo ...
: dpkg (subprocess): unable to execute post-installation script: No such file or directory
: dpkg: error processing sudo (--install):
:  subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 2
: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As a quick fix:

        cd /bin
        ln -s /usr/bin/perl .

since the sudo's post-install script relies on /bin/perl ...

: 
:    kerneld should be started before ANYTHING else happens, with the
: possible exception of a root filesystem check.  The reason for this

:    All in all i am very happy to have discovered the Debian
: distribution.

Me too.

Heiko

---

From: [email-masked] (Heiko Schlittermann)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 08:12:50 +0200 (MET DST)

As a quick fix:

        cd /bin
        ln -s /usr/bin/perl .

: 

Me too.

Heiko

---

From: Martin Konold <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 15:06:10 +0200

> I'll think about running the scripts by hand after I install.

Pleas do so in the future. This is what the users and mirrors do expect.

Yours,
-- martin

// Martin Konold, Muenzgasse 7, 72070 Tuebingen, Germany  // 
// Email: [email-masked]            // 
//    http://www.schwaben.de/linux                        // 
Microsoft Network is prohibited from redistributing this work in any form, in
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---

From: Martin Konold <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 15:06:10 +0200

Yours,
-- martin

---

From: Scott Barker <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 08:56:04 -0600 (MDT)

> You have to install dpkg-ftp.

After much hunting, I found this in /debian/project/experimental

Now, to give it a try...

"Nobody controls his own life. The best you can do is choose to be controlled
   by good pepole, By pepole who love you."
   - Orson Scott Card, "Ender's Game"

---

From: Scott Barker <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 08:56:04 -0600 (MDT)

Now, to give it a try...

---

From: Sebastian Kuzminsky <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 12:15:45 -0600

I (Sebastian Kuzminsky) wrote:
]    The Packages files not always up to date.  This causes the dselect
] tool to think version X of a particular package is available from the
] ftp server, when in reality the package available is X+epsilon.  This
] causes dselect to try to retrieve a non-existing file, and it fails.

Guy Maor <[email-masked]> replied:
] The scripts that update Packages run every day at about noon, PDT.  I
] typically install packages in the evenings, so you're right that the
] files are not always up-to-date.
] 
] I'll think about running the scripts by hand after I install.

   The Packages files in both the buzz/binary-i386 and the
unstable/binary-i386 directories STILL think the available xforms version
is 0.80j-2.  In both cases the available version is 0.80j-3....  Surely
it has been noon in PDT since installation of the updates xforms
packages.

   What's up with those two directories anyway?  Is "buzz" the code name 
for Debian 1.1?  Should i retrieve the buzz stuff rather than unstable?

I wrote:
]    kerneld should be started before ANYTHING else happens, with the
] possible exception of a root filesystem check.  The reason for this
] is that it may be needed to load binary-format modules, or
] md-personalities, etc.  I had my system lock up during boot because
] i have swap on a raid0 md device, and i compiled raid0 as a module.

Guy Maor replied:
] But swap should be turned on before doing any memory-hungry things,
] like fsck for example.  kerneld is already started pretty early.  You
] can rename the S files in /etc/rc2.d (changing their numbers) if you
] want to change the order.
] 
] My advice is not to compile raid0 as a module.  It'll never be removed,
] you realize, so there's really no benefit to compiling it as a module.

   I administer a couple of machines, some of whom can take advantage of
a raid0 driver (because they have many disks) and some who cant.  I like
to compile as minimal a kernel as possible, and localize the kernels for
the different machines using loadable modules for everything that is
common to all machine (like raid0 and serial drivers for example).

   I will read up on init 2.62 and change the rc file names as
appropriate to fix this problem on my local network.

   Also, how about including the Network Administrators Guide and the
System Administrators Guide in debian-doc?

Sebastian Kuzminsky
[email-masked]

---

From: Sebastian Kuzminsky <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 12:15:45 -0600

I wrote:

Guy Maor replied:

Sebastian Kuzminsky
[email-masked]

---

From: Guy Maor <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 14:39:16 -0500 (CDT)

> it has been noon in PDT since installation of the updates xforms

I installed the new versions on Tuesday evening.  The buzz directories
inadvertently broke Wednesday's script run.  That's been fixed so
today's run (going on now) will produce a correct Packages file.

> for Debian 1.1?  Should i retrieve the buzz stuff rather than unstable?

Yes.  Unstable is Debian 1.2, but we won't refer to it that way on the
ftp site until it's released; we don't want another Infomagic-like
fiasco.

Expect quite a lot of shuffling on the ftp site in the next couple of
days.  We're discussing a much better (heh - I suggested it) way of
organizing the ftp site.  Everything will be done by this Monday.

Guy

---

From: Guy Maor <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 14:39:16 -0500 (CDT)

Guy

---

From: Martin Konold <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:55:53 +0200

> today's run (going on now) will produce a correct Packages file.

What about releasing the script which produces the Packages files?

> organizing the ftp site.  Everything will be done by this Monday.

Hmm, please do not shuffle that much. Think about the traffic you are 
causing on the mirrors. Every mv on your side will cause a  rm and a 
reget on the mirror sites.
This will prevent the mirrors from keeping in sync and cause a lot of 
unneeded net traffic.
So please do the rearrangement after 1.1 has been released!

Yours,
-- martin

---

From: Martin Konold <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:55:53 +0200

Yours,
-- martin

---

From: eckes <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:56:57 +0200 (MET DST)

Hi,

> organizing the ftp site.  Everything will be done by this Monday.

And the mirrors needs days to pick the changes up, and in the meantime 1.1
will be released... not a good idea IMHO.

Greetings
Bernd
-- 
  (OO)      -- [email-masked] --
 ( .. )  ecki@lina.{inka.de,ka.sub.org}  http://home.pages.de/~eckes/
  o--o     *plush*  2048/A2C51749  eckes@irc  +4972573817  *plush*
(O____O)       If privacy is outlawed only Outlaws have privacy

---

From: eckes <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:56:57 +0200 (MET DST)

Hi,

Greetings
Bernd

---

From: Guy Maor <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 17:06:01 -0500 (CDT)

> Hmm, please do not shuffle that much. Think about the traffic you are 

I'm well aware of the mirror traffic I cause with moving files.  But
with the new organization I'm advocating, this won't be a problem for
future releases.  We'll just have to suffer this once.

Guy

---

From: Guy Maor <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 17:06:01 -0500 (CDT)

Guy

---

From: Martin Konold <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 00:38:52 +0200

> future releases.  We'll just have to suffer this once.

Dear Guy,

I really do understand your point. It was not the best to be forced to 
copy everything from unstable to buzz. It would have been a much smaller 
problem creating a new 1.2-unstable directory.
So using links in order to point to the directories is the right way to 
go.
It is not a big hit on mirrors to catch up with changing links.

But please refrain from doing so before 1.1 hits the shelves!
IMHO it is too late for this release. Do better for 1.2.
A lot of people are waiting for 1.1 desperately.
(Debian 1.1 will be the first distribution with Linux 2.0.0)

Things will calm down 2 or 3 weeks after release.
Then you can make your changes and nobody will moan.

Please remember that there are places for whom it is really very hard to 
keep their mirrors in sync. Also ftp.debian.org will not be able to 
handle all this traffic.
I just tried it myself today.
Even with our 34MBit Internet connection I could not establish a stable 
ftp connection to ftp.debian.org.

YOurs,
martin

---

From: Martin Konold <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 00:38:52 +0200

Dear Guy,

YOurs,
martin

---

From: Guy Maor <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 17:57:24 -0500 (CDT)

> Then you can make your changes and nobody will moan.

Yes, I think that's what I'll do.

Guy

---

From: Guy Maor <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 17:57:24 -0500 (CDT)

Guy

---

From: Rick Hawkins <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 18:14:19 CDT

> After much hunting, I found this in /debian/project/experimental

which mirror did you find this on?  i just tried caldera, and it's not
there.  I've accidentally removed it from one of my machines, and am
trying to move the files from the other . . . 

rick

---

From: Scott Barker <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 00:51:13 -0600 (MDT)

> trying to move the files from the other . . . 

I found it on ftp.debian.org:/debian/project/experimental/dpkg-ftp*

"The intelligence of the driver is inversely proportional to the height of his
   tires."
   - Sokol's Law

---

From: Christian Hudon <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 17:51:05 -0400 (EDT)

> want to change the order.

You don't need to play with the S files to get kerneld started early.  Take
a look in /etc/modules... If you put "auto" on a line then kerneld will be
started right after the root filesystem has been fsck'ed and remounted
read-write. (i.e. before other fs are mounted, etc.)

    Christian

---

From: Christian Hudon <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 17:51:05 -0400 (EDT)

Christian