Subject: Re: How do I get GATEWAY2000 PS/2 mouse to work ?

From: [email-masked] (Mark Rahner)
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 96 13:39:28 EDT

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>From [email-masked] Tue Aug 13 16:44:48 1996
Someone (sorry, lost name) wrote:
> -- one never knows if/when PS/2 mouse is going to be available in a 
>    downloaded kernel, whereas serial support is virtually always there.

Todd Fries ([email-masked]) responded:
> Oh give me a break.  If you are not experienced enough to compile your own
> kernel for your own custom hardware you should never be giving advice to
> other linux users until you are.  SHEESH.  It is not that hard.  Do a
> 'make config' once, cp .config to some safe place, then if you must remove
> your kernel source tree or upgrade or compile someone else's kernel, you can,
> and the copy the file back and say 'make oldconfig'.  IT IS NOT THAT HARD
> PEOPLE!!!!!  I personally have 14 different 'configurations' for different
> people in my 'safe place' away from the kernel tree.  So I can compile for
> 14 different people if they ask me to.

Todd, I'm sure that you're the neatest computer guy on your block, but
I think that you missed the original poster's point.  Users shouldn't
have to recompile their kernels to get their PS/2 mice to work.  Such a
requirement is enough to keep many potential Debian users from successfully
making the leap from MSStuff to Debian.

In my case, I used to select a module named psaux, and my PS/2 mouse
worked fine.  Recently I upgraded to Debian 1.1, circa July 1st.  As far
as I can tell, the psaux module is no longer an option.  Coincidentally,
my mouse no longer works (when I "startx", the system says "Fatal server
error: Cannot open mouse (No such device)").  My situation is caused by
one or more of the following:

  1.  I am doing something wrong.
  2.  There was a more serious problem with my OS upgrade.
  3.  Debian has a bug in its PS/2 mouse support.
  4.  Default support for PS/2 mice was intentionally removed.

Unfortunately, I haven't had time to look into this seriously so I'm
still Debian-less.  I've seen possibility #4 alluded to (usually preceded
by the words "I think") several times on this mailing list.  But I'm
suffering from a massive case of disbelief that this default capability
would intentionally be removed.

What I would very much like to see is a definitive statement regarding
Debian's default support, or default lack of support, for PS/2 mice.
(Hi Bruce, please respond).  If default PS/2 mouse support has been
intentionally removed, I'd also appreciate a quick explanation and
request that this decision be reconsidered.

Thanks for your support,
Mark Rahner

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From: [email-masked] (Gilbert Ramirez Jr.)
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 16:51:46 -0500 (CDT)

> making the leap from MSStuff to Debian.

I will unfortunately continue this thread with nothing but opinions. I
think that any person wanting to run Unix on their own computer should be
able to 1) download files, 2) uncompress and untar files, 3) type 'make
config', and the least 4) make a boot floppy. They don't even have to
understand LILO.

Making a new kernel is not that difficult.

--gilbert
______________________________________________________________________
Gilbert Ramirez Jr.                     [email-masked]
University of Texas                     http://merece.uthscsa.edu/gram
Health Science Center at San Antonio    University Health System

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From: Todd Tyrone Fries <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 03:02:50 -0500 (CDT)

> > Oh give me a break.

> Users shouldn't have to recompile their kernels to get their PS/2 mice to
> work.

Fine.  Tell me your kernel version number and processor type and I'll have
ps/2 drivers targz'ed and uuencoded to you within a few hours.

> as I can tell, the psaux module is no longer an option.

Sounds like someone forgot something to me.  I haven't started using Debian
yet; I am going to make a gradual migration as I like to do everything on
my system so I understand what is going on.  Needless to say, I would never
trust a menu system to do things I should be doing myself anyway, but since
you seem to, you are considerably correct in saying that if a piece of code
is not in the kernel and it can be compiled as a module, I see no reason why
it cannot be optionally loaded and included with a distribution.  But that is
my personal opinion and in no way represents Debian.

> Coincidentally, my mouse no longer works (when I "startx", the system says
> "Fatal server error: Cannot open mouse (No such device)").
Duh.  No driver, no mouse support.  See above for a quick return.

> My situation is caused by one or more of the following:
> 
If the option is not there guess not.
>   2.  There was a more serious problem with my OS upgrade.
Newer kernels replace older kernel modules.  Therefore upgrading should have
gotten you everything you needed, instead of removing something you had.
>   3.  Debian has a bug in its PS/2 mouse support.
I certainly can't determine this.
>   4.  Default support for PS/2 mice was intentionally removed.
Hopefully not.  My guess is an oversight/installation disk space concern.  I
recall some of the module tar files were reportedly bad; perhaps the mouse
got left out?  I am guessing here.

> still Debian-less.

Just because a system attempts to make things easier for you shouldn't mean
you ignore the details and rely on it exclusively without making any effort
at all to fix what is not working.

FYI, all you have to do is download the kernel source tree from one of many
kernel tree mirrors.  Say, ftp://linux.ucs.indiana.edu/linux/kernel/v2.0 is
a favorite of mine.  Grab linux-2.0.12.tar.gz.  Type 

   tar xvzf linux-2.0.12.tar.gz
   cd linux
   make menuconfig
    [ specify the processor type and make a module for non-serial mice and ps/2
     ]
   make modules
   (as root) make modules_install
   (as root) depmod -a
   (as root) modprobe psaux

Wow, you have ps2 mouse support.  Now wasn't that difficult?

> But I'm suffering from a massive case of disbelief that this default
> capability would intentionally be removed.
Whether it is or is not intentionally missing is a side issue.  You wish
to use your mouse.  One thing I have found to be true in life is that if it
needs to be done, and nothing is being done, do it yourself.  So if debian
isn't meeting your needs, in the several days you have been discussing this on
this list, you could have compiled your module several times over.  Not that
that justifies Debian in not having ps/2 support for you, but you do what
has to be done to get done what you want to get done.

> Thanks for your support,

Hope I've come across as trying to help.
--
Todd Fries .. [email-masked]

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From: Ben McKeegan <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 10:30:09 +0100 (BST)

> Making a new kernel is not that difficult.

1) and 2) are a big problem if like me you only set up the machines with
very small linux partitions. I've been setting up several student PCs here
with Debian for use just as X terminals, which only have small hard disks,
and still need DOS & windows. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben McKeegan                                              
Assistant Computer Officer
Fitzwilliam College,
University of Cambridge.

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From: [email-masked] (Gilbert Ramirez Jr.)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 08:34:52 -0500 (CDT)

> and still need DOS & windows. 

True. Also, after I posted the above, I realized that #1 above may be *very*
difficult, judging from the amount of troubles people have had with pppd
and chat.

--gilbert