Subject: Linux-Development Digest #115
From: Digestifier <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 3 Sep 94 21:13:08 EDT

Linux-Development Digest #115, Volume #2          Sat, 3 Sep 94 21:13:08 EDT

Contents:
  Re: DOSEMU 0.53: Developers and testers needed! (John Saunders)
  Re: Future of linux -- the sequel (Mike Kenney)
  IP routing not using default net? (Nicholas L. Barbieri)
  Re: Disassembler for Linux? (Herbert Xu)
  Re: MSDOS FS dates off by 5 days! (Slackware 2.0 bug?) (Herbert Xu)
  Re: how to do shared C libraries (was Re: nvi 1.34, curses and the new Linux C library) (Davor Jadrijevic)
  Re: [HELP]  NIGHTMARE CONFIGURING THE NETWORK WITH A 3C503/16 PLEASE HELP !! (David Miller)
  Re: Future of Linux (Michael Dillon)
  Re: df: 5 Mb missing, but not with older kernel, bug? (Frank Lofaro)
  Re: DOSEMU 0.53: Developers and testers needed! (Harry C Pulley)
  more than 2 COM ports at the same time (Harry C Pulley)
  Re: IDE Performance enhancement (John S. Seng)
  Re: ext2fs corruption in 1.1.47-48 (Mark Weaver)
  Re: more than 2 COM ports at the same time (Harry C Pulley)
  Re: Switching text modes from within linux ([email-masked])

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (John Saunders)
Subject: Re: DOSEMU 0.53: Developers and testers needed!
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 10:40:06 GMT

jonathan allen ([email-masked]) wrote:

> I wanted to have a try at DOSEMU0.53, and saw a post that it was at
> tsx11-mit.edu:/pub/Linux/ALPHA/private/devel but the 'private' directory
> is not open for me to pick it up.  How/where _can_ I find it ?

Just CD into it and like magic all the files appear. At least that's
what I've bee told ;-) It's only hidden, not unavailable.
-- 
--     .   +----------------------------------------------+
   ,-._|\  | John SAUNDERS - Home  [email-masked] |
  /  OZ  \ |               - Work  [email-masked] |
  \_.-\__/ | "Mmmmmmmm beer..." - Homer Simpson           |
        v  +----------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Mike Kenney)
Subject: Re: Future of linux -- the sequel
Date: 2 Sep 1994 23:48:08 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
Larry Pyeatt <[email-masked]> wrote:
>In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Mike Kenney) writes:
>|> In article <[email-masked]>,
>|> Larry Pyeatt <[email-masked]> wrote:
>|> >
>|> >Compare the price/performance of processors and Intel comes out to
>|> >make the worst processors in existence.  PowerPC chips provide twice
>|> 
>|> I have to disagree here.  The price/performance of a Pentium PC is
>|> quite good (especially if you're running Linux :-).  
>
>You are talking at the system level.  I was talking at the processor level.
>What makes Pentium SYSTEMS cost effective is:
> 1) volume and vendor independence
> 2) Pentium systems in general:
>    a) have lower resolution/slower video hardware
>    b) have smaller hard disks
>    c) have less RAM
>
>Do not confuse processor with system.  The Power Macintosh
>uses a totally new and different processor from any of its
>predecessors and yet runs the SAME software and OS, and
>delivers much greater price/performance.  The same can be
>done with the IBM style PC, although vendor independence 
>may turn out to be a hindrance.

I am not impressed with the Power Mac at all.  There's a researcher
in the lab who just got one ... all of his benchmarks run *faster*
on an 040 Quadra! ... and he using a native Power PC compiler.
BTW both the Quadra and the PowerMac are slower than a Pentium 60
running Linux.

People have to realize that a RISC cpu needs a good compiler ... this
guy is probably going to have to wait through a couple of compiler
releases before he gets decent performance ... he's ready to dump the
system now :-)

But back to the point ...

I buy systems, not CPUs.  The list price of the CPU doesn't have squat
to do with the price of the system.  If your buying a high-end monitor,
big disk, and >= 32Mb of RAM, the CPU price is lost in the noise.

>
>Configure a Pentium system which is identical to an SGI
>Indy and they will have very similar price/performance,
>even though the Pentium PROCESSOR is more expensive
>than the MIPS processor.
>
>Here is a Pentium Machine which is configured similar to a
>$6500 Indy:
>
[ price list deleted ]
>
>Note that, at the price shown, the PC will not do full motion video or
>capture images, nor will it be as fast overall as the SGI.

Now what about maintenance?  I agree that SGI makes fine systems (we
are looking at some of their higher-end workstations) but I can't go
to the corner computer store and buy parts for it :-).

>
>|> One of the most important benefits is vendor independence, I can buy
>|> spare/replacement parts from anyone ... no need to purchase a
>|> maintenance contract.  This was the big selling point for us, at one
>|> time our research group was paying $35k/year in maintenance on 4
>|> minicomputers.
>
>I am not advocating buying workstations.  I am advocating replacing the
>PROCESSOR in the PC.  There are now VL bus (and soon PCI) motherboards
>with RISC processors.  These motherboards use inexpensive PC components.

Where are they?  How many vendors sell them?  Do you have prices?
Is there a Unix available for them ?

>
>Why stick with the overpriced/underperforming Intels. Sure, DOS
>compatibility.  Well, I don't use DOS or Windows, so that is not an
>issue for me.  Maybe it is for some.

DOS compatibility is not an issue but hardware availability is.

-- 
Mike Kenney
[email-masked]

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Nicholas L. Barbieri)
Subject: IP routing not using default net?
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 16:28:00 GMT

We are seeing a problem with the IP routing in the 1.1.45+ kernels.
The default route is not being used.  Putting a literal route in
the table works fine, but we have too many networks to document.
Anybody tried this on a big network?

-- 
Nick Barbieri                           Amateur Radio: KB6QI
([email-masked])
([email-masked])
(408)247-4268
Santa Clara, CA, USA

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Herbert Xu)
Subject: Re: Disassembler for Linux?
Date: 2 Sep 1994 18:39:44 +1000

Ken Pizzini ([email-masked]) wrote:
: In article <[email-masked]>,
:  <[email-masked]> wrote:
: >Ken Pizzini ([email-masked]) wrote:
: >: Try "objdump -d".  If your distribution doesn't come with objdump,
: >: the source can be found in the GNU "binutils" package.
: >
: >I have objdump and the binutils-1.9l.4 but neither have the -d option!

: Harrumph!  That's what I get for not testing: it is documented
: in the manpage, but indeed my objdump doesn't implement -d either.

The one from GNU binutils-2.4 implements '-d'.
-- 
A.  B <=> True                  B.  A <=> False
Email:  <[email-masked]>
PGP Key:  [email-masked] or any other key sites

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Herbert Xu)
Subject: Re: MSDOS FS dates off by 5 days! (Slackware 2.0 bug?)
Date: 2 Sep 1994 18:59:15 +1000

Robert Knudson ([email-masked]) wrote:
: MS-DOS prior to version 6.0 ( I believe ) did not set the CMOS registers when 
: the time and date were set in dos. Only the CMOS setups would change the PC 
: time. 

Make that 4.0

-- 
A.  B <=> True                  B.  A <=> False
Email:  <[email-masked]>
PGP Key:  [email-masked] or any other key sites

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Davor Jadrijevic)
Subject: Re: how to do shared C libraries (was Re: nvi 1.34, curses and the new Linux C library)
Date: 2 Sep 1994 10:59:10 GMT

There is ONE thing about shared library Sun people emphasize
as advantage in comparison to us. Suppose a smart user makes
his shared library; in sun he doesn't need to be root to use 
it. For Linux, running ldconfig requires root privilegies.
Is this necessary; can we have local ldconfig? I'd like to have
this feature.

Best regards, Davor.
--
<[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
================ Davor Jadrijevic ====================

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (David Miller)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.admin,comp.os.linux.help
Subject: Re: [HELP]  NIGHTMARE CONFIGURING THE NETWORK WITH A 3C503/16 PLEASE HELP !!
Date: 3 Sep 1994 16:18:01 -0400

Christophe Person ([email-masked]) wrote:
: Hi,

:       I am still stuck since a week with a network problem and I pull my hairs
: off (and eat my nails also). Please help !!!!!!!!

:       I was running slackware 1.2 without problem for a while and upgraded
: my system WITH THE ORIGINAL/FULL DISTRIBUTION from sunsite.unc.edu. Since, I
: can't anymore boot my new kernel with my 3C503 card.

:       I get this #$&#*$&!   SIOCADDRT Invalid Argument ass soon as I try to
: access it.

        Check your version of libc when you install those new NetKit
programs as they depend on some newer semantics in the libc calls...
Just my 2 cents...

Later,
David S. Miller
[email-masked]
[email-masked]
[email-masked]
[email-masked]
[email-masked]

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Michael Dillon)
Subject: Re: Future of Linux
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 1994 10:52:41 +0000

> What I think Linux needs to start to spread past the academic and hobbyist
> community is a few simple applications for regular folks. For example:
> 
>    - A word processor that can use Truetype or Type 1 postscript fonts.
>      (dare I say something like WriteNow or IslandWrite).  Something that
>      does WYSIWYG on X terminals.

It needs more than WYSIWYG on terminals, it also needs a WYSIWYG way
of printing on your printer and on mine. Unfortunately, ghostscript
is not quite up to the job. It is incredibly inefficient and somewhat
buggy. From the letter that Peter Deutsch sent to Linux Journal, I wonder
how soon this situation will be improved, if ever. What is really needed
is a way for X client to use X-graphics calls to render images on an
X-print-server in the same way as X is now rendered on an 
X-terminal-server.

>    - A Spreadsheet program that reads SYLK files.

This should be straightforward to do as the SYLK format is documented
and published.

>    - A database program for keeping simple mailing lists and printing
>      labels and reports.

The database back ends such as metalbase exist. But the front ends do
not yet exist. IMHO, this is a place where TCL/Tk would work well.

>    - Perhaps an integrated application like Microsoft Works.
To get this kind of thing, you need much more than hacking. You need
people who are willing to spend a good deal of time on DESIGN
issues. 

> 3.  Linux has many attractive features, its technical innovations and politics
>     chief among them.  What it needs now is MacWrite and MacDraw and MacPaint.
>     (or LinWrite, LinDraw, and LinPaint).
>     Because, until I can write a one-page letter without a single
>     \{foo} or \{bar}  I will use my Macintosh or Windows machine.
>     And until I can cut and paste a picture from my Draw program into my
>     word processor, I will use ClarisWorks.

This requires a standard graphics format in the same way as the PICT format
is a Mac standard. Hmmmm... maybe the PICT format could be adopted
as the graphics standard. Anyway, O'Reilly has a new Book/CD
called the Encyclopedia of Graphics File Formats which is mandatory
reading before deciding which standard to use.

Anybody interested in an RFD for comp.linux.appliance ??
To discuss and plan an integrated set of application components
that will turn Linux boxes into an information appliance
that can TRULY be used by the average computer user.

cruisin' down the information highway, lookin' for a blast
breakin' all the speed limits as I come zoomin' past!
--
Michael Dillon                 Internet: [email-masked]
C-4 Powerhouse                  Fidonet: 1:353/350
RR #2 Armstrong, BC  V0E 1B0      Voice: +1-604-546-8022
Canada                              BBS: +1-604-546-2705

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Frank Lofaro)
Subject: Re: df: 5 Mb missing, but not with older kernel, bug?
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 94 03:55:30 GMT

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] writes:
>[email-masked] writes:
>> I had reported that "df" used to (correctly) report 166485 Kb on my
>> WD170Mb/IDE (/dev/hdb1 as /, agreeing with "tune2fs -l"'s report) but that
>> recently, "df" has been reporting only 161192.
>> 
>> THE KERNEL VERSION MAKES A DIFFERENCE.
>
>Nothing to worry about. You might want to read all about
>bsddf vs minixdf in linux/fs/ext2/CHANGES and be enlightened.
>
>Cheers,
>Sander
>-- 
>Sander van Malssen
>[email-masked]

Maybe it would be nicer to have minixdf as the default, instead of 
BSD. Luckily one can remount root to use minixdf.

BTW, the mount code is confusing me. :(

I can not see where things like the mount flags are initialized. It
seems to me that it never is, but I must be wrong, since if that was
the case, things would break.

Anyone that can tell me how execution proceeds from sys_mount all the
way to ext2_read_super, etc works and where stuff is initialized, I'd
really like to know..

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Harry C Pulley)
Subject: Re: DOSEMU 0.53: Developers and testers needed!
Date: 3 Sep 1994 20:30:53 GMT

John Saunders ([email-masked]) wrote:
: jonathan allen ([email-masked]) wrote:

: > I wanted to have a try at DOSEMU0.53, and saw a post that it was at
: > tsx11-mit.edu:/pub/Linux/ALPHA/private/devel but the 'private' directory
: > is not open for me to pick it up.  How/where _can_ I find it ?

: Just CD into it and like magic all the files appear. At least that's
: what I've bee told ;-) It's only hidden, not unavailable.

Yep, type 'cd /pub/linux/ALPHA/dosemu/private/devel' and you'll be in.  I just
installed it on 1.1.45 and it works great!  I have it set already (took almost
no time at all) to boot off of my real DOS drive.  It runs Stacker so I can get
at all of my files.  I have been running WP6.0 and it runs great.  It is a bit
slower than running native but hell, it runs in 1024x768x256 and I'm not
complaining!

The only problem I have has to do with using more than 2 serial ports.  I want
to run my XT laptop as a terminal off of COM4 but my mouse is on COM2.  When I
try to use both at the same time nothing works from the terminal and the mouse
doesn't respond either.  Would it work better if I shared COM3 with my mouse
since COM3 is a 16550?  I must look at the serial code to see if there is
something I can do.  It would be nice if someone could run WP6.0 on the console
while I run off the terminal *and* the person could use the mouse under DOS.

Harry
--
<:-{}   [email-masked]       |This message released|It takes all kinds,
 \      Harry C. Pulley, IV       |to the PUBLIC DOMAIN.|and to each his own.
==================================+=====================|This thought in mind,
Stay away from the DOS side, Luke!|Un*x don't play that.|I walk alone.

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Harry C Pulley)
Subject: more than 2 COM ports at the same time
Date: 3 Sep 1994 20:32:46 GMT

I am trying to run with a mouse on COM2, modem on COM3 and terminal on COM4.
Whenever I use both the mouse (COM2) and the terminal (COM4) at the same time I
get no response from either.  Is there any code around for sharing IRQs?  If
not, then is there any code for using one of the ports in a polled mode instead
of interrupt driven?

If nothing exists then I will work on it myself.  I just want to know what
already exists out there.

Harry
--
<:-{}   [email-masked]       |This message released|It takes all kinds,
 \      Harry C. Pulley, IV       |to the PUBLIC DOMAIN.|and to each his own.
==================================+=====================|This thought in mind,
Stay away from the DOS side, Luke!|Un*x don't play that.|I walk alone.

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (John S. Seng)
Subject: Re: IDE Performance enhancement
Date: Sat, 3 Sep 1994 20:40:56 GMT

[email-masked] wrote:
: Similar: Conner 240M -- is deperformance of -5% 
: disk speed when multiple mode (16) enabled. Lower
: values (2) slow it down less, cca -1%.

: Davor.
: --
: <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
: ---------------- Davor Jadrijevic --------------------

How do you compile in the enhancements anyways?

-John

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Mark Weaver)
Subject: Re: ext2fs corruption in 1.1.47-48
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 04:13:23 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, Mark Lord <[email-masked]> wrote:
>Ah.  A SCSI system with similar symptoms.  That makes it unlikely
>to be IDE-multiplemode related, or for that matter, IDE or SCSI specific.
>Thus, odds are improving that it is a filesystem problem.
>(multiple-mode is for IDE *only*).

It doesn't sound like a filesystem problem to me.  It could be anything
in the kernel that is writing to a structure referenced by an invalid
pointer.  I don't see why the filesystem is particularly suspect.  The
filesystem deals with blocks of data.  If an entire block was misplaced,
then I'd suspect the filesystem.

If we could see a real example of corrupted data (viewed in text and
with od -x), it might shed some light on the situation.  Perhaps only
certain bits are twiddled, in which case we can look at various
structures maintained by the kernel and see which ones would be likely
to change data in that pattern, if it were to write to an invalid
pointer.

        Mark
====================================================================
Email: [email-masked]           | Brown University
PGP Key: finger [email-masked]       | Dept of Computer Science
-- 
====================================================================
Email: [email-masked]           | Brown University
PGP Key: finger [email-masked]       | Dept of Computer Science

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Harry C Pulley)
Subject: Re: more than 2 COM ports at the same time
Date: 3 Sep 1994 20:49:18 GMT

Harry C Pulley ([email-masked]) wrote:
: I am trying to run with a mouse on COM2, modem on COM3 and terminal on COM4.
: Whenever I use both the mouse (COM2) and the terminal (COM4) at the same time I
: get no response from either.  Is there any code around for sharing IRQs?  If
: not, then is there any code for using one of the ports in a polled mode instead
: of interrupt driven?

: If nothing exists then I will work on it myself.  I just want to know what
: already exists out there.

Sorry to follow up my own post.  I already have 2 parallel ports on 5 and 7 and
a sound card on IRQ7.  Unfortunately, I don't think my multi-I/O card can
change the IRQ for COM4 to IRQ2.  Thus, changing IRQs is not an option.

Harry
--
<:-{}   [email-masked]       |This message released|It takes all kinds,
 \      Harry C. Pulley, IV       |to the PUBLIC DOMAIN.|and to each his own.
==================================+=====================|This thought in mind,
Stay away from the DOS side, Luke!|Un*x don't play that.|I walk alone.

------------------------------

From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Switching text modes from within linux
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 23:01:18 GMT
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Rainer Zimmermann ([email-masked]) wrote:
: Joshua Felsteiner ([email-masked]) wrote:
: : The subject says it all.  I understood it was impossible to switch text
: : modes from *within* linux (I do know about LILO's vga = ask).  Why?  Is
: : there something in the way linux is built that makes it impossible to switch
: : modes from within it?  If it's not, how come nobody ever did it?

: You might want to take a look about a few utilities included with
: (I think it was- dont nail me on this) svgalib, which allow to save
: and restore video register settings.

: You can at least restore a sensible video mode, and with a bit of work, 
: even make them change to other modes... (should be possible, at least)

: --rainer

The kernel allocates memory for the video text buffers at startup
in con_init(). That means that for a 80x30 mode it allocates less
memory per VT, than it does, for example, for a 142x48 mode VT.

Until the kernel can dynamically alloc and dealloc memory, the VT mode
changing won't work.

Cheers,
        Laszlo Herczeg
     *** Ask me about the Toronto Linux Users Group (TLUG)  ***

------------------------------

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