Subject: Linux-Development Digest #122
From: Digestifier <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 5 Sep 94 08:13:07 EDT

Linux-Development Digest #122, Volume #2          Mon, 5 Sep 94 08:13:07 EDT

Contents:
  Re: [Q] Multi-session PhotoCD & SCSI (Gerd Knorr)
  Re: Linux - my first impressions (Kees J. Bot)
  Re: Linux - my first impressions (Kees J. Bot)
  Re: Linux Inside T-Shirts, Now Printing! (Jean-Paul Chia)
  Re: Report on SVNET: Bill Jolitz's Talk; Mind Overload. (Brett Lymn)
  Re: Unix, Unicode, and internationalization (Markus Friedl)
  Re: linux never swaps ? (JANI KURKI-SUONIO)
  Re: which kernel with dosemu 0.53 ? (Rob Janssen)
  Re: polled ports (Rob Janssen)
  Re: DOSEMU 0.53 notes (Rob Janssen)
  Re: Netware Client (Mark Evans)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Gerd Knorr)
Subject: Re: [Q] Multi-session PhotoCD & SCSI
Date: 5 Sep 1994 09:17:16 GMT

[email-masked] (Thomas Quinot) writes:

>Is there a way of reading multi-session Kodak Photo-CD disks with an
>Apple CD300 (no flames please :-)) ) SCSI CD-Rom drive ?

>The adapter is an Adaptec 1540B, and the kernel is 1.1.49.

I wrote a patch for mounting PhotoCD's with all sessions. Works fine for my
NEC (SCSI too). Useful only if you can read the first session without
problems. Try
  http://www.cs.tu-berlin/~kraxel/linux/index.e.html
to get it (german users can use index.html). Or send a email, I'll mail
it back.

  Gerd

>AdvTHANKSance for any advice.
>-- 
>Thomas QUINOT                       |  "Un roi sans divertissement est un
><[email-masked]>      |             homme plein de misère."
>Linux - choice of a GNU generation  |                          Jean GIONO
-- 
==============================================================================
Gerd Knorr | [email-masked] | http://www.cs.tu-berlin.de/~kraxel

There is always an easier way to do it.

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Kees J. Bot)
Subject: Re: Linux - my first impressions
Date: Mon, 5 Sep 1994 09:12:36 GMT

[email-masked] (Mark A. Horton KA4YBR) writes:
>Kees J. Bot ([email-masked]) wrote:
>
>: Under SunOS the installboot(8) program installs the bootstrap and the
>: addresses to /boot into the boot block.  This only needs to be done
>: once, because /boot never changes.
>
>: The LILO method is rather crude.
>
>: --
>:                              Kees J. Bot  ([email-masked])
>:                    Systems Programmer, Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam
>
>       True in one sense, but then Suns don't have to deal with booting
>completely alien operating systems on themselves or having SunOS (and thus
>vmunix) installed as a SECONDARY operating system on an existing hardware
>platform.  When you consider that, I for one do not think of LILO as being
>crude, but as being a tremendous achievement.  Almesberger has done one
>hell of a good job with that piece of code IMHO!

LILO is doing its job wonderfully, but do not list being able to boot
other operating systems as a "tremendous achievement."  That is a
trivial "load one sector at address 0:7C00 and jump to it" exercise.
Do name being able to load a compressed image, that is one of its best
points.  (Even though it loads the image using a crude method.  :-)  )

Oh, Suns do boot other operating systems, like Amoeba, Sprite, NetBSD,
Minix-SPARC, etc.  The ROM monitor doesn't care what it boots, it is
the same as the PC BIOS does:  load the boot sector(s) and jump to it.
The Sun monitor is a bit smarter though, it knows about partitions.  The
PC BIOS leaves it to the master bootstrap (sector 0 on disk) to select
and boot the active partition.

>       BTW: do you know of any way I can choose between booting SunOS 4.1.3
>and Solaris 2.3 on my SPARCs?  I currently run one on the SPARC-1 and one on
>the SPARC-2 because I haven't figured out how to tell the boot nvram how to
>boot an alternative partition/kernel... any clues?  I'd really like to test
>Solaris' performance on the 2, but am not about to lose my trusty SunOS 4.1.3
>over ther!  :)
>       Thanks for any help you can give me on how to do this... 

You can tell the ROM monitor what device to boot with the 'boot'
command.  By default this is 'boot disk'  where 'disk' is an alias
for /dev/sd0a (/dev/dsk/c0t3d0s0 on Solaris 2.3).  Alas if you want to
boot anything other than one of the devices named by the aliases then
you need to a path in the device tree.  Luckily you can ask your O.S.
what this path is on the machine itself (or an identical one):

Under SunOS 4.1.3:
        # /usr/kvm/unixname2bootname /dev/sd0f
        /iommu@f,e0000000/sbus@f,e0001000/espdma@f,400000/esp@f,800000/sd@3,0:f

Under Solaris 2.3 (different machine):
        # ls -l /dev/dsk/c0t3d0s5
        lrwxrwxrwx  1 root           86 Jul 19 15:13 /dev/dsk/c0t3d0s5 -> ../../devices/iommu@0,10000000/sbus@0,10001000/espdma@4,8400000/esp@4,8800000/sd@3,0:f

Then you can use such a path as an argument to the boot command to boot
the 'f' partition:

        ok boot /iommu@f,e0000000/sbus@f,e0001000/espdma@f,400000/esp@f,800000/sd@3,0:f

This is a bit crude isn't it.  :-)
It should be possible to define your own disk aliases so you can type
'boot sol2' instead of the above command.  I haven't done it yet.

(Let's take further SunOS stuff to mail.)
--
                                Kees J. Bot  ([email-masked])
                      Systems Programmer, Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Kees J. Bot)
Subject: Re: Linux - my first impressions
Date: Mon, 5 Sep 1994 09:20:54 GMT

[email-masked] (Rob Janssen) writes:
>
>In <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Kees J. Bot) writes:
>
>>[email-masked] (Rob Janssen) writes:
>
>>>In <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Kees J. Bot) writes:
>
>>>>Under SunOS the installboot(8) program installs the bootstrap and the
>>>>addresses to /boot into the boot block.  This only needs to be done
>>>>once, because /boot never changes.
>
>>>>The LILO method is rather crude.
>
>>>I don't think so...
>
>>>- LILO does not require the boot image to be on contiguous sectors
>
>>No requirement of any other loader I know.
>
>Have a look at SYS V systems...  They use a separate filesystem for
>the bootimages where files always use contiguous blocks.

Brrr.  I'd rather not look.  I'd rather critize smaller issues of decent
operating systems.

>>>- LILO can boot many different kernels and also other operating systems
>
>>Many different kernels *if* all of them have been mapped.  They must be
>>carefully mapped whenever a new kernel is installed.  That's what I mean
>>with crude.
>
>No, this is done only once when configuring LILO.  From then on, all
>kernels will be mapped simply by running the installer.

Precisely, they must be carefully mapped by running the installer each
time a new kernel is made.  (I never supposed one needed to reconfigure
the whole lot over and over.)

>>Booting other operating systems is trivial.  It is not something that
>>makes LILO stand out.
>
>Can your SUN booter do it?

I don't have a SUN booter, I have made a PC bootstrap system for the PC
versions of Minix.  It has a tiny part of its code devoted to the simple
task of booting other operating systems.  (Or better: Getting the other
O.S.'s to boot themselves.)

>>>I think it is a good program, and running its installer after building
>>>the kernel is not a problem at all.  It is even done in the same
>>>"make zlilo" command.
>
>>Inflexible.
>>I like to hack code on one system, copy the resulting kernel image to
>>another system with a simple 'rcp' command, and test the new kernel on
>>this other system.  Both systems are running Minix-386vm, with a
>>bootstrap system written by myself that understands Minix filesystems.
>
>That will really shine on an ext2 partition!

Minix-386vm doesn't have ext2.  If so then the boot program would be
extended to support it.  It is not that much work to just be able to
read a file system.

>No, I still think the LILO method is a good idea.

Advantage: No FS code.
Disadvantages: Very careful installation of a new kernel.  One can only
choose from a limited set of kernels.  (Which is usually enough, of
course.)

Let me describe my bootstrap system, the "Minix Boot Monitor", so that
you can compare its features with LILO yourself.

A bootable Minix file system contains a bootstrap in the first sector of
the 1k boot block.  This bootstrap loads and starts the program /boot
using disk addresses patched into its code by the installboot program.

/boot (let's call it "the monitor") reads the second sector of the boot
block, the so called "parameters sector" to configure itself.  (There
are no config files whatsoever, it is all in this parameters sector.)

The monitor interprets a shell like language that has variables, simple
functions, menu items, and commands like 'boot', 'delay', 'ls', etc.
It can read commands from the keyboard, but normally begins by executing
the function 'main'.  Main by default runs 'menu'.  The menu by default
shows one choice:  "Start Minix".  This "choice" runs the command 'boot'
with no arguments.

The boot command selects the newest kernel image from the directory
/minix, loads and starts it bringing up Minix.  (You know, Minix, "the
early Linux development system."  :-)  )

If I wanted to run an old kernel I would hit ESC to get to the monitor
prompt and type:

        >ls /minix                      (The > is the monitor prompt)
        /minix/1.6.25.1r178             (Blame 'uname -rv' for the names)
        /minix/1.6.25.1r188
        >image = /minix/1.6.25.1r178
        >boot

Knowing the filesystem allows for a nice 'ls' command to look around on
the boot device.

To configure my system at home I have typed:

        >rootdev = sd2a                 (Use /dev/sd2a as the root device,
                                        not the default RAM disk)

        >main() {trap 2000 boot; menu}
                                        (Install a 2 second trap to run the
                                        command 'boot', then show the menu)

        >minix(=,Minix-386vm) {boot}
                                        (Add a menu entry for the '=' key)

        >dos(d,MS-DOS) {boot hd1}       (A menu entry to boot DOS)

        >SERIAL3 = on                   (Enable /dev/tty03, aka COM4)
        >DPETH0 = :15:                  (Ethernet 0 is at IRQ 15 instead of
                                        the default)
        >console = 2A:100:40            (Use BIOS mode 2A for 100x40 text)

        >save                           (Save current settings)

If I turn on my machine I see this:

        Minix boot monitor 1.6

        Press ESC to enter the monitor

        Hit a key as follows:

            =  Minix-386vm
            d  MS-DOS

I have got two seconds to type 'd' before it starts Minix automatically.

Further notes:

The monitor doesn't know what sd2a is, it simply looks up /dev/sd2a in
the file system to find its device number.  The device number is handed
to the kernel.  One more advantage to know what the FS looks like.

Choosing the newest kernel from a directory is another advantage of
knowing the FS.  The monitor can search directories and look at dates.
I can simply throw a newer kernel image into /minix and delete one of
the older images.

The kernel can be configured before it actually runs.  No need to break
out the emergency boot floppy to edit a config file if a misconfigured
kernel refuses to boot.

/boot is a 20k program compiled from 1200 lines of assembly and 3000
lines of C.  Coding most of it in C made it easier to add all the
runtime features, but required a 8086 cross-compiler.  Isn't the LILO
boot-time code 100% assembler?  Tremendous achievement if so.  (I have
only read the spiffy manual.)
--
                                Kees J. Bot  ([email-masked])
                      Systems Programmer, Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Jean-Paul Chia)
Crossposted-To: aus.computers.linux,alt.linux.sux,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.admin,comp.os.linux.help,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Linux Inside T-Shirts, Now Printing!
Date: 5 Sep 1994 17:24:22 +0800

Dave Rossow ([email-masked]) wrote:
: [email-masked] (Justin Scott) writes:
: >Any type of JPEGs, etc we can see of the shirts before we order?
: >I would love to have the "Linux Inside" as will as the "GNU Generation" 
: >shirts, but only if I can see pics before purchase
: >Justin

: Likewise!
:       dave
:       [email-masked]

Well.. The GNU Generation is just text, because the cost to print the pciture 
of it would be around $28 US. Unless you really like the picture, and you really
really want the picture version, then mail me, and maybe I can print a few.
Anyways, Here is the Linux Inside one, I can't seem to find the GNU one. :)
I'll post it ASAP..
Thank you.
- JP

-- CUT HERE --

--      
        Jean-Paul Chia                      TheWiz @ IRC
        Drasnian Technologies,  Perth, Western Australia
        PH +61-9-447-6261             FAX +61-9-447-4098
        [email-masked], [email-masked]

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Brett Lymn)
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.bsd,comp.os.386bsd.development,comp.os.386bsd.bugs,comp.os.386bsd.apps,comp.os.386bsd.questions,comp.os.386bsd.misc,comp.os.os2.programmer.misc,comp.os.minix,comp.os.mach,comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
Subject: Re: Report on SVNET: Bill Jolitz's Talk; Mind Overload.
Date: 05 Sep 1994 04:56:38 GMT

>>>>> "Dave" == Dave Tweten <[email-masked]> writes:
In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Dave Tweten) writes:

    Dave> In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked]
    Dave> (Bernard Steiner) writes:
    >> In <[email-masked]> [email-masked]
    >> (Dave Tweten) writes: >The final revelation to me was how he
    >> planned for users to boot directly >off the CD, with no need
    >> for a boot floppy.  The actual scheme is:
    >> 
    >> > 1.  Have an Adaptec 154xy SCSI controler, for all values of x
    >> and y.  > Also have a Mitsumi CD drive.
    >> 
    >> > 2. Boot DOS.
    >> 
    >> > 3. Mount the CD under DOS and run a "boot 386BSD" program off
    >> the CD.
    >> 
    >> >Not quite as mysterious and awe inspiring as the first story I
    >> heard on >the net.
    >> 
    >> How do I go about "mounting" the CD under DOS whe I haven't got
    >> any software drivers for doing just that ?

    Dave> Okay, so I exercised a little literary license.  "Mount the
    Dave> CD under DOS" really means, "Insert the CD into your drive".
    Dave> It does not mean "Use the DOS assign command" (the closest
    Dave> thing DOS has to a mount).  Presumably, you do have a DOS
    Dave> ASPI CD driver.  If not, you're out of luck.

Presumably you have DOS.... When I bought my PC I was given the option
to pay for DOS - I said "No!" :-)  Leaves me in a bit of a bind,
assuming I wanted to run 386BSD 1.0 that is.

--
Brett Lymn

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Markus Friedl)
Subject: Re: Unix, Unicode, and internationalization
Date: Mon, 5 Sep 1994 09:57:09 GMT

[email-masked] (Markus Kuhn) writes:

>There are also rumours that someone in Australia is working on a
>Unicode capeable xterm version, but I don't know any details.
>Who knows more?

Hmm... sounds like you're talking about 9term...
Try
        ftp://ftp.cs.su.oz.au/matty/unicode/9term.*.tar.Z
or
        ftp://nine.ecf.toronto.edu:/pub/plan9/matty

In order to compile 9term you have to get libXg from matty's directory
or sam (an editor which supports unicode) from:
        
        ftp://research.att.com/dist/sam/bundle.Z

c u

--markus

BTW: ftp://research.att.com/dist/tcs.sh.Z is a nice tool for translating
     character sets between UTF-8 (aka UTF-2 aka FSS-UTF) and about 40
     other encodings...
---
Markus Friedl
[email-masked]

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (JANI KURKI-SUONIO)
Subject: Re: linux never swaps ?
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 94 13:08:00 +0200
Reply-To: [email-masked] (JANI KURKI-SUONIO)

DN>In article <33tsv5$bv4#news.cais.com> [email-masked] (Tim Bass (Network
  >Sy
  >stems Engineer)) writes:
  >>First my P5 had 16 MB of RAM and not matter what kind of serious
  >>process load I could dream of, it never swapped.  Now I'm up to
  >>48 MB of RAM :-) and my dream machine still never swaps, and I'm
  >>hitting it hard with X and multiple xv session, running 'find /'
  >>a zillion times, blah,blah.

Try Xchess from Yggdrasil summer'94 CD-ROM distribution. It has some
bug, and it fills out your computer's memory- no matter how much you
have.

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Rob Janssen)
Subject: Re: which kernel with dosemu 0.53 ?
Reply-To: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 5 Sep 1994 07:36:43 GMT

In <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Srini Seetharam) writes:

>I downloaded the dosemu0.53 pre alpha release.

>I would like to know which kernel it is compatible with.

Then why don't you read the documentation in the dosemu0.53 package?

Rob
-- 
=========================================================================
| Rob Janssen                | AMPRnet:   [email-masked]           |
| e-mail: [email-masked]     | AX.25 BBS: PE1CHL@PI8UTR.#UTR.NLD.EU     |
=========================================================================

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Rob Janssen)
Subject: Re: polled ports
Reply-To: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 5 Sep 1994 07:44:51 GMT

In <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Harry C Pulley) writes:

>Well, it just bugs me that I can reboot my system to Coherent and use the mouse
>on COM2 and a terminal on polled COM4 at 9600 bps or higher (165450) without 
>any trouble.  Running my terminal polled under Linux yields a speed which
>looks, coincidentally, like it is slower than 1200 bps.  Coherent changes its
>polling rate depending on the bps rate of the port.  This doesn't work when you
>really go up in speed but it will definitely allow a 386 or even 286 to handle
>9600 baud OK.

It will use CPU cycles that are better used for something else.

>I am looking at the serial polling code now.  If I come up with anything, I'll
>post patches for people to try.

It is not releated to the serial code, but to the timer rate.  Changing
that will break a lot of things, unless you are really careful.

>: It is better to listen to the rest of the world, and somehow move your
>: IRQs or use a board which can share IRQs.

>I know this might work.  But, I don't want to wreck even a $5 board if I can
>help it and I know that a lot of people don't want to either.  Linux should be
>able to poll a port at a reasonable rate.  It's not too much to ask for.

I think it is.  Polling is nice for a single-tasking system, but in a
multi-tasking system it is just wasting the CPU for something that is
completely unnecessary.

Rob
-- 
=========================================================================
| Rob Janssen                | AMPRnet:   [email-masked]           |
| e-mail: [email-masked]     | AX.25 BBS: PE1CHL@PI8UTR.#UTR.NLD.EU     |
=========================================================================

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Rob Janssen)
Subject: Re: DOSEMU 0.53 notes
Reply-To: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 5 Sep 1994 07:51:07 GMT

In <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Mark Krischer) writes:

>i've started playing around with DOSEMU .53 and i am VERY impressed.

what patchlevel?

>       the idea of being able to have a real word processor (WP 6.0 DOS) and not have to
>be in DOS/Windows is absolutely great!!!

>       just a couple of notes.  things i've noticed and problems i've had

Unfortunately they are too wide for the screen...  please check this
next time.

>       mouse doesn't seem to work to well--do i need to run the DOS driver?  when i do
>       i'm told its already loaded.

the mouse is still an experimental area.  be sure you read whatever doc
there is.  it does not work 100%

>       is there support for the ATI mach32 chip?  i can only get 640x480 16 colors in

I don't think so.  Only ET4000, S3, trident for now.

>       also, what do i need to do to get color in text mode--i got it once and i haven't a
>       clue what i did, but i never saw it again.

MODE CO80

>       i do get color text in an xterm though.  that has LOTS of potential.  it does seem
>       a lot slower though.   also delete and bs wouldn't work, but that might have been
>       my termcaps not set up write in the dosemu.config or something like that.

Probably your termcap entry in /etc/termcap is broken.  It often is.

>       interesting--MS-UNDELETE won't work, it says i'm on a network drive and must use
>       delete sentry--that's the one where it just copies deleted files to a hidden dir.

You are using LREDIR, and therefore you *are* on what MSDOS thinks is a
network drive.   Think of Linux being your fileserver.

>       lastly, can someone give me some information on good and SAFE ways to redirect boot to
>       my DOS partition.  i also use double-space, so i'd be interested in knowing how to 
>       gain access to that--the HOWTO is not completely clear and i'd really prefer not to
>       thrash my hard drive, it's young and i want to break it in slowly.

Can't help you with that...  doublespace won't get anywhere near to my
harddisk...

Rob
-- 
=========================================================================
| Rob Janssen                | AMPRnet:   [email-masked]           |
| e-mail: [email-masked]     | AX.25 BBS: PE1CHL@PI8UTR.#UTR.NLD.EU     |
=========================================================================

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Mark Evans)
Subject: Re: Netware Client
Date: Mon, 5 Sep 1994 12:00:14 GMT

Sander Plomp ([email-masked]) wrote:
: [email-masked] (William B. Cattell) writes:

: >You can mount NetWare volumes via NFS and access the server console via 
: >XConsole -- as you've already seen -- but to access the server as a true 
: >client you would need some kind of DOS.  This also depends on what you 
: >want to do.  If you just need file access NFS should suit your needs.  If 
: >you need to do NetWare admin (users, maint., etc.) then you would need a 
: >DOS client.                            

: To do admin you need a client that allows access to the bindery, the
: queues, and all other 'non filesystem' features of NetWare. Native DOS

One problem with the Filesystem side of netware is that there dosn't appear
to be anything attached to a file which can be used to "fake" an inode number.

: doesn't support this either, it's the programs such as syscon and pconsole
: that 'speak' this part of the protocol. Again, it is possible to support
: this protocol under linux.

Print queue's can be quite complex, especially remote print servers, since
there is a combination of using NCP to identify the server and SPX to query
the server.

------------------------------

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End of Linux-Development Digest
******************************