Subject: Linux-Development Digest #177
From: Digestifier <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 94 12:13:09 EDT

Linux-Development Digest #177, Volume #2         Thu, 15 Sep 94 12:13:09 EDT

Contents:
  Re: Don't use Linux?! (Corey Brenner)
  named is cool  (huh huh) (Srini Seetharam)
  Re: General Linux Development (G Dinesh Dutt)
  Re: Don't use Linux?! (G Dinesh Dutt)
  Re: PPP/IP Forwarding Problem (Mark Stockton)
  vt400 terminal emulation
  Re: Developing Distributed Filesystems for Linux? (Davor Jadrijevic)
  linux+slip+bootp. How? (Sowmya Raman)
  Re: Help with development using vi. ([email-masked])
  General Linux Development (Ted Harding)
  Re: Shared Libs: working toward a permanent solution? (James Lewis Nance)
  ext2fs dump/restore (Mathias Koerber)
  Re: Developing Distributed Filesystems for Linux? (Mark Evans)
  Re: Shared Libs: working toward a permanent solution? (Kai Petzke)
  Re: WEARNES CD-110 CDROM (Jeff Kesselman)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Corey Brenner)
Subject: Re: Don't use Linux?!
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 14:12:25 GMT

ACC Corp. ([email-masked]) wrote:
: In Article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked]
: (Michael Schumacher) wrote:

: I would not fret about the lack of commercial software packages.  They are
: coming.  Where four months ago there were virtually none, there are now
: several dozen commercial packages, and the rate of new introductions is
: increasing rapidly.  Sure there are a bunch of potential clouds on the Linux
: horizon, but meantime enjoy the ride.

Is there a list of some kind for the commercial apps for Linux?

I know of UDT and Flagship...  any others?  Perhaps those in the know
could educate those of us in the lurch...

:)

: Cheers,  Bob.

: ACC Bookstores
: "Home of the PC UNIX - Linux Catalog"
: 1 (800) 546-7274
: [email-masked]

Corey Brenner

sig not needed :)

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Srini Seetharam)
Subject: named is cool  (huh huh)
Date: 14 Sep 1994 21:26:36 GMT

I have a question about named. I used the NAG by Olaf Kirch and
the DNS and BIND book by Albitz and Liu to setup named.

I would like to thank the authors for an excellent peice of work.

I would like to know where the actual cache data used by named is
stored. This is not the cache file specified in the named.boot file.
I just want to be able to look through it and learn how this is
stored and how it works.

any help is appreciated

srini

------------------------------

From: G Dinesh Dutt <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: General Linux Development
Date: 15 Sep 1994 08:06:20 -0400
Reply-To: [email-masked]

|>>>> "Rich" == Rich Deighton <[email-masked]> writes:

    Rich> Are there any far reaching goals for Linux such that there is a point
    Rich> where the kernel is _finished_?  Will development just continue until
    Rich> the kernel suffers from severe featuritus?

Has UNIX stopped ? Its been 27 years and it doesn't show any signs of
stopping. Not only that, it has spawned off numerous researches. Linux will be
similar. People are working on making Linux a server over Mach, introducing
threads in the kernel etc. There is also talk of making Linux SMP, porting to
various architectures etc. As new horizons emerge, Linux may be used to reach
those horizons and in that process may lose its resemblance to today's Linux.
But, development will not stop. 

Dinesh
###############################################################################
For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.
                                -- H. L. Mencken
G. Dinesh Dutt,                                 email : [email-masked]
Hinditron Tektronix Instruments Ltd.,           voice : 8349393/8212262
SDF-2, Unit 63-A, SEEPZ, Andheri (east), Bombay - 400096.
###############################################################################

------------------------------

From: G Dinesh Dutt <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Don't use Linux?!
Date: 15 Sep 1994 08:06:20 -0400
Reply-To: [email-masked]

|>>>> "Dennis" == Dennis Heltzel <[email-masked]> writes:

    Dennis> that there is a shareware market for Linux machines.  Personally,
    Dennis> I'd love to have "As Easy As 1-2-3" ported to Linux. Anybody know
    Dennis> any shareware spreadsheet developers ?

There is GNU's Oleo. I don't know how good it is though. I have been told that
its still in its infancy and needs volunteers, especially for its
documentation. Any updates to this ?

###############################################################################
For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.
                                -- H. L. Mencken
G. Dinesh Dutt,                                 email : [email-masked]
Hinditron Tektronix Instruments Ltd.,           voice : 8349393/8212262
SDF-2, Unit 63-A, SEEPZ, Andheri (east), Bombay - 400096.
###############################################################################

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.admin,alt.uu.comp.os.linux.questions
From: [email-masked] (Mark Stockton)
Subject: Re: PPP/IP Forwarding Problem
Reply-To: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 00:37:55 GMT

For myself and at least one other person, the fix was to upgrade to 
kernel 1.1.50.  It's in the Incoming directory on sunsite.  In my case, 
since my slip server itself uses a Cisco for it's default route, I also had
to answer no to "Assume subnets are local".

MarkS

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] ()
Subject: vt400 terminal emulation
Date: 14 Sep 1994 21:33:43 GMT

hi, i'm looking for a vt420 terminal emulator that can work under
linux/x-window.  vt102 just won't suffice........

any help would be greatly appreciated

vipin k agrawal

[email-masked]

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Davor Jadrijevic)
Subject: Re: Developing Distributed Filesystems for Linux?
Date: 14 Sep 1994 21:34:02 GMT

Daniel Tauber ([email-masked]) wrote:
: I'd like to see a ftp based file system for Linux. What I have in mind will
: allow you to mount devices like

: mount -t ftpfs myaccount:[email-masked]/path mnt

I suggest looking at Jeremy Fizhardinge's userfs-0.8 (you need a
patch for >1.1.47 too). Currently I have mounted 2 ftp sites on
linux. Looks nice :)

$ mount
..stuff..
/tmp/userfs-0.8/clients/ftpfs/ftpfs:816 on /vol/usr/users/davor/mnt type userfs
(username=davor,user,pid=816,exec,nodev,nosuid,/usr/users/davor/tmp)
$ pwd
/vol/usr/users/davor/mnt/smile.srce.hr/pub/pc/networking/NeOS
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
my host's path           mounted ftp site

This directory is apropos doing distributed filesystems. NeOS is
peer-to-peer network for DOS with lightweight and efficient protocol.
I recommend taking a look at this. It would be worth writing Linux
support for benefits of exporting such a LAN into internet via 
Linux gateway.

Davor.
--
<[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
================ Davor Jadrijevic ====================

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Sowmya Raman)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.admin
Subject: linux+slip+bootp. How?
Date: 15 Sep 1994 11:57:56 GMT

Iam trying to use bootpc on my linux box to get an valid ip over SLIP and I am 
running into some problems. First of all the ioctl SIOCGIFADDR fails to get
hardware address obviously because its a slip connection I am trying to
make. I tried commenting out the ioctl and tried again and now I get my ip
as 127.0.0.1.
My questions are
(1) Does the bootp client on linux work with slip connections?
(2) Is there any RFC that deals with slip and bootp?
(3) Has anybody successfully used bootpc over SLIP connections?

Thanks for your help
ramana

PS: I am using my wife's acct. Please post or send mails to [email-masked]
But please do reply :-)

------------------------------

From: [email-masked]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
Subject: Re: Help with development using vi.
Date: 15 Sep 1994 07:39:19 +1000

: >Get a better vi. nvi from ftp.cs.berkeley.edu (if I remember the
: >address correctly) is a much better vi than elvis. (And let's you
: >cut&paste under X, which is the exact reason why I dumped elvis)

: What is the problem with cut&paste under X using elvis?
: I'm using it all the time, and I'm not aware what is wrong with it...

Hi People,

Personally, I hate these debates about editors (since I "know" what the
best one is :-)), but here's my 2c worth ...

I've been a VIM (Vi IMitator) fan for about 12 months now.  I just downloaded
version 3.0 and I'm happier than ever.  It now has multiple windows (in
one xterm, console or whatever) and you can cut and paste between them.

It also has on-line help (not that I'd ever use it, of course :-)), multi
level undo/redo, macro recording/playback and a host of other nice features,
like file name completion in command lines and command line editing.  It
also has compiler error message support (you know, it will jump to the
source file and line number the compiler is trying to tell you is rubbish).

I'm sorry, I can't remember where I downloaded it from, but it's bound
to turn up somewhere soon.

Anyhow,  I'd recommend it highly.  My other point is that it looks and
feels like VI to me.  I've never typed a command that worked in VI but
didn't work in VIM.

Oh, VIM also runs on a number of platforms.  I use it on Linux, DOS, HP/UX
and SunOS.  It's nice having exactly the same editor wherever you work (I
believe it runs under VMS, too).

Have fun.

Harry O. #:-)}

------------------------------

From: Ted Harding <[email-masked]>
Subject: General Linux Development
Date: 15 Sep 1994 08:54:36 -0400
Reply-To: [email-masked]

| From: [email-masked] (Rich Deighton)
| Subject: General Linux Development
| Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1994 08:22:17 GMT
| 
| Are there any far reaching goals for Linux such that there is a point where
| the kernel is _finished_?  Will development just continue until the kernel
| suffers from severe featuritus?  
| 
| Just a point that I found interesting to cogitate over and was hoping would 
| spark off an interesting discussion.
| 
Can I repeat a comment I made in an earlier posting? The time is approaching
where the developers should say "Here's a kernel; here's a system;
(above all) here's adequate documentation for that, and it works". Then
people who want to use Linux for "real work" can build on top of that
in confidence that their efforts will not rapidly become water under the
bridge. From the feel of it, kernel 1.0.8 (which I am using) is not that
far off this stage; the later ones which are around must be even nearer.
  One thing which I regard as an unpromising symptom is the tendency
for Linux application software to depend on ever further extension to the
kernel. I have no objection whatever to the leading edge moving forward
fast, in whatever way the creators wish. Maybe I'm naive, but it seems
to me that the kernel is already pretty full of different stuff, and the
libraries are well stocked; so can't new applications build-in their
own special needs (or at least have this as a compile option) rather
than insist on new gizmos in the kernel/libraries in order to work?
  (I'm not talking about some things that ought to be there already
and ain't, which have to go in - like the -fPIC problem in the GNU
assembler; but this is not strictly a Linux problem anyway).
  A possible alternative would be a much smoother, more friendly,
more reliable, better documented approach to restructuring the kernel.
I.e. basically a core kernel and an assembly kit of whatever you like,
(if you want a driver for your automated greenhouse you can compile it
in; if you PC doesn't have 5-and-qrtr" drive you can pull it out),
which is really non-problematic to operate, and where any new stuff
would be addable-in in the same way all the time. If this happened I'd
say we were at the point where we could all get on with using Linux
as we want to. And not be either obliged to keep up with the changes
nor unable to change if and when we need to.

Just some thoughts in follow-up to the above.
Ted Harding                               ([email-masked])

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (James Lewis Nance)
Subject: Re: Shared Libs: working toward a permanent solution?
Date: 15 Sep 1994 12:21:19 GMT
Reply-To: [email-masked] (James Lewis Nance)

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Dan Connolly) writes:
> So is there a project underway to replace the current shared library
> tools with conventional name-based shared libraries? This seems like a
> big compatibility nightmare, but it's worth it, I think. And the
> sooner we do it, the better.

Yes, the GCC people are working on ELF libraries, which should solve the
problems you mention.  Join the linux-GCC mailing list if you want more info.
 
> How are SVR4 shared libraries done? (perhaps I should do some reading
> here...) It seems that the "commercial" x86 unix platforms are SVR4
> based. What are the major gaps between LINUX as it is today and SVID
> compliance? Hmmm... I should do some reading on ELF and the iBCS
> project. Is there any hope that solaris binaries will run on LINUX?
> Solaris/intel seems like it's shaping up to become a viable platform.
> It might be nice to be able to ride that wave...

If Solaris/intel binaries ar iBCS compliant, they should run under linux,
but I do not know if that is the case.  I would suspect that it is.

Jim

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Mathias Koerber)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.admin,comp.os.linux.help
Subject: ext2fs dump/restore
Date: 13 Sep 1994 13:55:46 GMT
Reply-To: [email-masked]

s there a dump/restore for ext2fs or xiafs or any other good/fast
Linux fs? I'd like to be able to use Amanda to back up my Linux
box, but that requires dump to work.

Any hints appreciated
mathias

--
Mathias Koerber                                      Tel: +65 / 778 00 66 x 29
SW International Systems Pte Ltd                          Fax: +65 / 777 94 01
14 Science Park Drive #04-01 The Maxwell    e-mail: [email-masked]
S'pore 0511       <A HREF=http://www.swi.com.sg/public/personal/mk.html>MK</A>
        The Vatican has the highest population of popes:        5.2 / m^2

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: alt.filesystems.afs
From: [email-masked] (Mark Evans)
Subject: Re: Developing Distributed Filesystems for Linux?
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 12:45:34 GMT

Rob Janssen ([email-masked]) wrote:
: In <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Daniel Tauber) writes:

: >I'd like to see a ftp based file system for Linux. What I have in mind will
: >allow you to mount devices like

: >mount -t ftpfs myaccount:[email-masked]/path mnt

: Get the "userfs" package.

Note that ftpfs keeps a cache under a separate dir tree, to reduce
ftp traffic. If you find youself running out of diskspace, try 
pruning this cache.

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Kai Petzke)
Subject: Re: Shared Libs: working toward a permanent solution?
Date: 15 Sep 94 13:00:22 GMT

[email-masked] (Dan Connolly) writes:

>The current architecture for shared libraries seems to work pretty
>well, but it seems tedious to build shared libraries,

That is quite true.  You have to invoke GCC with different options to
build a shared library, and then you have to select for each symbol
of the lib, whether it should be publically visible, or not.

The advantage is, that by this work, the shared lib gets a very
self-contained module in the end.

>and the fact
>that you have to somehow magically choose a part of the address space
>that noone else will ever use strikes me as somewhat fragile.

But there is a list, and the README's on how to build shared libs also
tell you about the reserved addresses.  Fortunately, an 32-bit address
space is quite large.

>The
>technique of reducing loader symbols to integer indexes seems fragile
>also.

I do not think, it is fragile.  The old implementation (without jump
tables) was indeed fragile, but the current jump table implementation
forces, that these integer indexes remain constaint even after library
updates.

>[Quick question: shared libraries _are_ in fact shared between
>processes in the sense that program if program A and program B are
>both using shared library X, there is only one copy of X in physical
>memory, right?

Yes.

>There isn't any runtime "patching" that makes shared
>libraries unique to a process, is there?]

Run time patching was introduced with the 4.3 libs to allow true
dynamic linked libraries (DLL): the jump table can be altered by a
program at startup.  That way, functions in the program can override
functions in the library.

If a program does that patching, only the pages of the library, which
were altered (typically only very few) are copied, the rest of the
library is still shared.

>So is there a project underway to replace the current shared library
>tools with conventional name-based shared libraries? This seems like a
>big compatibility nightmare, but it's worth it, I think. And the
>sooner we do it, the better.

For the library user (someone, who compiles a program, and links it
against a lib, or who uses a program linked against a lib, or who
upgrades a lib), name based shared libraries do not have any advantage
over the current jump table based ones.  You can do the very same with
both (except bugs, of course).

However, jump tables link in much faster.  So the mainstream libraries
(libc, X windows, tcl/tk, OpenWindows, Motiv, etc.) should remain
jump table libraries.

On the other hand, adding support for name based shared libs should
make sense for the offstream libs.

>How are SVR4 shared libraries done? (perhaps I should do some reading
>here...) It seems that the "commercial" x86 unix platforms are SVR4
>based. What are the major gaps between LINUX as it is today and SVID
>compliance? Hmmm... I should do some reading on ELF and the iBCS
>project.

Linux is able to link in ELF shared libs into ELF binaries.  These are
name based, as far, as I know.

Kai
-- 
Kai Petzke                      | How fast can computers get?
Technical University of Berlin  |
Berlin, Germany                 | Sol 9, of course, on Star Trek.
[email-masked]   |

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Jeff Kesselman)
Subject: Re: WEARNES CD-110 CDROM
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 18:25:21 GMT

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Virgil) writes:
>I was just wondering if anyone was working on a driver for the Wearnes CDD110
>AT-bus CDROM.  Or if anyone else has ever heard of them.  They use the Sony 
>interface on sounds that have them or CDROM controller paddle boards.
>
>I thought I might get lucky and be able to use the Sony CDU33A driver, but
>such was not the case.
>
>Does anyone have any information that could make me happy???
>--

I have information abotu the problem ,but I'm afraid as far as I know 
there's no joy in mudville tonight.

I own one of these beasties (Orchid ships them under their label).  I've 
used it under MS-DOS and OS/2 and learned a few things about them.  The 
basic problem is that, while the hardware interface is standard sony, 
apparently the software interface is not identical. Under MS-DOS, for 
example, I could use an SB-AWE16 as the interface, if I used the WEARNES 
driver, but the standard SB sony driver would fail.

Similarly under OS/2 i coudl still use my SB, but I need a special 
Wearnes driver, the standard OS/2 sony driver woudl not work.

Since its a software protocol type thing, it probobly would not be too 
hard to modify the existing sonycd_31a driver, if you coudl get the 
necessary info out of Wearnes.  I just gave up and bought myself a cheap 
sony CDU-33a, which works fine with the 31a driver. (Around here you can 
get a 33a in a media-vision package for about $130.00).

I have it in the abck of my mind to some day write a driver for my other 
drive, but right now its on the bottom of my priority list.

Sorry I don't have better news.

Jeff Kesselman

------------------------------

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End of Linux-Development Digest
******************************