Subject: Linux-Development Digest #213
From: Digestifier <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 94 15:13:14 EDT

Linux-Development Digest #213, Volume #2         Fri, 23 Sep 94 15:13:14 EDT

Contents:
  Re: Multiprocessing Pentium Systems (Mark Bolzern)
  Re: Don't use Linux?! (Mark Bolzern)
  Re: Don't use Linux?! (Mark Bolzern)
  Re: Don't use Linux?! (Mark Bolzern)
  Re: Porting applications to TERM (Olaf Titz)
  Re: XFig Eats All My Memory. (pj04781)
  Re: COBOL for Linux (James Fidell)
  Re: Linux on CD (Stefan Taferner)
  Re: [STATUS] Linus Floppy Driver Development (Dominik Kubla)

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From: [email-masked] (Mark Bolzern)
Subject: Re: Multiprocessing Pentium Systems
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 22:39:22 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
David Williams <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
>I've just seen some new dual processor pentium systems in Computer
>Shopper.  They look swell for the money, but there isn't a single OS
>that can take advantage of them.  Anybody have any thoughts about how
>hard it might be to make Linux one of the first OS's to take advantage
>of these systems?

Not quite true... SCO MPX will work with many of them.  But it would still
be good to have Linux available......

-- 
Mark Bolzern :  [email-masked]    USA Tel: (303) 699-7470  Fax: (303) 699-2793 
WorkGroup Solutions, Inc.    The FlagShip "CA-Clipper and XBase on Unix" People
  FlagShip is a 4GL Database Development System & XBase Porting Tool for Unix
No Runtime Fees   Info at ftp.wgs.com : /pub2/wgs/Filelist OR mail: [email-masked]

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Mark Bolzern)
Subject: Re: Don't use Linux?!
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 23:16:05 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
Michael Schumacher <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
>Hello Linuxers!
>
>Okay. Before you start sending me endless flames, I want to make sure
>that you know that I *love* Linux. It's probably the best PC Un*x you
>can find between here and the sun. Linux has some nice features, e.g.
>the /proc filesystem, it is fast, it supports lots of hardware, it
>follows the POSIX standard (which makes porting of existing software
>much easier), plus: it's free. Nobody knows the exact number of Linux
>installations, but it's likely to be in the 100000's. One could think
>that companies are willing to consider Linux a reasonable and serious
>platform, and that they would port and offer their products to the
>Linux community. However, they are far away from doing so, actually. 

While I agree and disagree in varying amounts with the rest of this message
I would like to take agree with the above, in general, but object to the
statement that NO commercial companies have or will port their products..

What are we? Chopped Liver?

WorkGroup Solutions and Multisoft have taken the plunge by porting FlagShip
which is the Unix version of the CA/Clipper language from the DOS world.

There are tons of commercial software packages written in Clipper (Possibly
as many as all other languages put together), and all of these are now
a simple compile away from Linux.

There is a huge aftermarket for Clipper written products and add ons.  Clipper
is powerful enough to emulate Fox & Dbase ... the premise behind our FoxKit..
FlagShip may be the key to bringin Linux to 200+ K Clipper programmers, 
Millions of users of Clipper written programs, and about 20 million Dbase &
Foxers.....

FlagShip sells for thousands of dollars on "Commercial" Unix systems, and we
have thousands of installations.

We are gambling that Linuxers want DOS pricing levels, and offer our
Linux product inexpensively enough to qualify for this designation.

We are also working at convincing other commercial vendors to take the 
plunge............

What is missing?   THE SUPPORT FROM THE LINUX COMMUNITY

You want your OS to be to MicroSoft, as MicroSoft was to IBM (It's undoing)?
The democratic solution to a potential Gates Dictatorship?

Then you need to get behind, buy, try and talk about the commercial packages 
that take the risk to jump into Linux early.  It is buyers that allow 
commercial development to happen.... it is great commercial products, 
preferably clones & supersets of what is presently in use that will be bought,
and then the circle continues as products, no longer limited by the OS
get better & better.

If you want to check us out... see below... If you don't... at least support
the concept.  I personally believe that Linux IS the next computer revolution.

-- 
Mark Bolzern :  [email-masked]    USA Tel: (303) 699-7470  Fax: (303) 699-2793 
WorkGroup Solutions, Inc.    The FlagShip "CA-Clipper and XBase on Unix" People
  FlagShip is a 4GL Database Development System & XBase Porting Tool for Unix
No Runtime Fees   Info at ftp.wgs.com : /pub2/wgs/Filelist OR mail: [email-masked]

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Mark Bolzern)
Subject: Re: Don't use Linux?!
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 23:25:12 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
Jagadeesh Krishnamurthy Venugopal <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
>   2. Linux's libc tends to change its version number almost every week
>      (sometimes even more often). Even though changes of the minor
>      version number should not affect previous applications, they will
>      sometimes break them. This means for a company that they have to
>      debug the library in order to find a work-around (see 3.).
>
>[Lotsa stuff deleted]
>Two points
>
>1) Linux is of the hackers, by the hackers, for the hackers. There is
>absolutely no need to make it commercially successful. In the search for
>commercial success I am afraid we might lose track of the original ideal-- a
>free os which is the hacker's dream. Well if one wants commercially available
>releases of UNIX there are plenty-- UnixWare, Solaris, etc. Let us have Linux
>just for us. Once the commercial market is aimed at, technical advances get
>sacrificed at the altar of compatability (Consider that the largest selling OS
>today is the most wretched). It would be a sad day for Linux if it happened.

Boy, how shortsighted can you possibly get?  Commercial success will not hurt
linux a bit, and may very well help it out a lot.  The point in creating art,
in making computers, and computers better is to share them with those not
as skilled.  By all means preserve the open development, and the primarily
for hackers... no problem..... but it is paychecks that allows one to eat,
and money makes the world go round...... If linux works for commercial 
entities, the hackers will have that much more reason to hack.... and see
their art enjoyed by the masses... the ultimate reward.  

You can always have compatiblity for some time, and have radical departures
in the development.... and then upgrade from 1.0 to 2.0... everyone has to
recompile or whatever to run on 2.0... so what.... if it is of a major enough
benefit.... then maybe include a compatibiity module... there is always some
one to do these compatibility things.... no one says you have to... by all
explore what you can do and hack your heart out..

Power to the people... that is what Linux is, and should stay.... and in the
process become very successful commercially as well... not in spite of what
it is, but because of what it is, By hackers, For Hackers, and also for
the underpriviledged that need a true standard that no one entity controls.

-- 
Mark Bolzern :  [email-masked]    USA Tel: (303) 699-7470  Fax: (303) 699-2793 
WorkGroup Solutions, Inc.    The FlagShip "CA-Clipper and XBase on Unix" People
  FlagShip is a 4GL Database Development System & XBase Porting Tool for Unix
No Runtime Fees   Info at ftp.wgs.com : /pub2/wgs/Filelist OR mail: [email-masked]

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Mark Bolzern)
Subject: Re: Don't use Linux?!
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 23:40:03 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
Matt Welsh <[email-masked]> wrote:
>In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Michael Schumacher) writes:
>>installations, but it's likely to be in the 100000's. One could think
>>that companies are willing to consider Linux a reasonable and serious
>>platform, and that they would port and offer their products to the
>>Linux community. However, they are far away from doing so, actually. 
>>Here's why:
>
>I have to agree with most of your observations. This was a 
>well-thought-out article.
>
>>   Quo vadis, Linux? Do we continue to like Linux "as is", or should we
>>change something in order to encourage companies to develop commercial, but
>>sophisticated end-user software for this beautiful OS? Do we continue to
>>keep Linux a powerful tool for wizards only, or do we want to see Linux 
>>being used in offices and other commercial environments? If we *really*
>>want Linux to succeed, we *need* the companies and their commercial products!
>
>This is one of the goals of Linux International, a nonprofit organization 
>which is currently forming. A number of Linux developers, such as Michael 
>Johnson, Alan Cox, and Ian Murdock are working with Linux International in 
>order to promote the development and growth of Linux. One of LI's goals is 
>to lobby commercial software developers to release products for Linux.
>
>This is not LI's only goal, of course. Another focus is to support the
>Linux developers themselves, by helping to direct donations and funding.
>My concept has been to form a "grant fund" where people can send donations
>to support Linux development. People who wish to develop software for
>Linux (such as new device drivers, applications, and so forth) and require
>funding (to purchase equipment, documentation, etc.) can make a 
>grant request. Grants will be awarded out of the pool of donations sent
>to this fund.
>
>This seems to be the only way to manage donations for Linux development.
>With all due respect, it doesn't make a great dceal of sense to send
>your money just to Linus Torvalds or Patrick Volkerding. Scores of
>others have spent as much time working on Linux over the last two
>years. You could always support the FSF, which does, in fact, support Linux. 
>But what about people developing the Linux kernel? And the many others not 
>affiliated directly with the FSF? Because the Linux "development team" is so 
>disorganized, a grant fund seems to be the best way to go.
>
>There's no organization behind Linux. LI is not an attempt to form one.
>It is just an attempt to promote the growth of Linux through aiding
>developers. 
>
>LI is still in the planning stage, but watch c.o.l.* and Linux Journal
>for more details.
>
>M. Welsh

GO for it MATT !!!!  You've got my vote... And some of my wallet.

-- 
Mark Bolzern :  [email-masked]    USA Tel: (303) 699-7470  Fax: (303) 699-2793 
WorkGroup Solutions, Inc.    The FlagShip "CA-Clipper and XBase on Unix" People
  FlagShip is a 4GL Database Development System & XBase Porting Tool for Unix
No Runtime Fees   Info at ftp.wgs.com : /pub2/wgs/Filelist OR mail: [email-masked]

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Olaf Titz)
Crossposted-To: comp.protocols.misc
Subject: Re: Porting applications to TERM
Date: 22 Sep 1994 17:15:12 GMT

Richard L. Goerwitz <[email-masked]> wrote:
> In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Robert Stockmann) writes:
> >I think its amazing! does that mean that also smail/sendmail can be compiled
> >with term within? how can you than receive email if your term pc is
> >not registered with a valid hostname?

Receive - not. Send - yes, but the receiving end will see the mail
coming from the other, Internet-connected end of your term host.

> Not only unregistered, but also lacking a full networking installation -
> will it work then?  Typically software I've tried to run can't determine
> my hostname, and aborts, even though I have a rudimentary identification
> for my system in /etc/HOSTNAME.

You mean, software compiled with termnet? This is a bug in the termnet
library, and is being fixed (look at my WWW page if curious).

Olaf
-
All term-related stuff redirected to comp.protocols.misc.
-- 
___     [email-masked] - [email-masked]
__ o      <a href="http://rzstud1.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de/~uknf/">click</a>
__/<_     also: [email-masked] - [email-masked] - praetorius@irc
_)>(_)_________  "now i find that most of the time love's not enough in itself"

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (pj04781)
Subject: Re: XFig Eats All My Memory.
Date: 23 Sep 1994 09:30:57 -0500

In article <[email-masked]>,
Russell E. Dube <[email-masked]> wrote:
>Lucas James Sheneman ([email-masked]) wrote:
>: I am running Linux 1.1.49, XF86_VGA (from XFree86-2.1.1).  When I run 
>: xfig, it rapidly eats up all of my available memory and never actually 
>: pops up.  I have 20MB RAM and 25MB swap.
>
>FWIW, I have the same problem with 1.0.9 and Slackware 2.0.  Eats my 
>available memory (16M machine), never pops up.  Please post since
>undoubtedly others have a need to know.  Thanks in advance.
>Russ Dube -- My opinions, not those of my employer ...

I've never tried running xfig on my linux machine at home, but I do know
that it takes 30 seconds to a minute to start on a Sun Sparc with 32 megs
and starts in less than 5 seconds on a Sparc with 64 megs of ram. It is

a memory pig and swaps like crazy starting up on the 32 meg machine. 
Granted, the OS takes up a lot more room on the Sun's, but even the CAD
and simulation packages here take up less memory to start.

You might try closing all other windows first and/or increasing swap to
get it to run. It is a nice package.

Personal opinions,
frank

-- 
Frank G. Smith  ([email-masked]) Help eradicate huge sigs.

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (James Fidell)
Subject: Re: COBOL for Linux
Date: 23 Sep 1994 17:50:06 +0100

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Eric Williams @ PCB x5577) writes:
> Does anyone know of a freeware COBOL for Linux? [*]

The COBOL FAQ covers this fairly well.

James.
-- 
 "Yield to temptation --             |
  it may not pass your way again"    |     [email-masked]
                                     |
        - Lazarus Long               |              James Fidell

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Stefan Taferner)
Subject: Re: Linux on CD
Date: 23 Sep 1994 11:06:36 GMT

>>Its alright as a way to look at UNIX, maybe, for a brief period, but 
>>TOTALLY unstatisfactory for doing real work.
>
>Much as I hate to, I feel I have to disagree with you there.  It depends how
>much RAM you have - if you have enough to provide a reasonable size cache and
>prevent demand paged binaries from becoming non-resident then it is a
>different ball game. It is probably best to have some of the distribution on
>the faster hard drive, agreed, but you were being a bit slating about the
>concept.  It is workable.

I think it is a question of money. If you have enough money to install
so much RAM you probably also have enough to buy a 200meg HD to install
Linux on it. Sure, for real work you need more space, but just for
the system it would be enough.

To have enough memory for a large disk cache you need approx. 8MB,
which cost the same as a 200MB hard disk (at least here in Austria).

Greetings, Stefan

-- 
Stefan Taferner, RISC Linz, Austria  | Hardware, n.: The parts of a computer
email: [email-masked]  |             system that can be kicked

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Dominik Kubla)
Subject: Re: [STATUS] Linus Floppy Driver Development
Date: 23 Sep 1994 14:53:58 GMT

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Bill Davidsen) writes:

   In article <[email-masked]>,
   Larry Doolittle <[email-masked]> wrote:

   Or you could put it in the floppy driver and make it loadable.
   I'm about 80% sure the floppy driver is a loadable one, I just
   don't have a system handy to check.

No, it is not. The QIC-117 (aka 'Floppy tape') driver is a KLM. And making
the floppy driver a KLM is not possible (or at least difficult):
How would you create a boot floppy without having a driver in the kernel at
boot time ...

Cheers,
  Dominik

--
===========================================================================
eMail: [email-masked]    sMail: Dominik Kubla, Lannerstrasse 53
                                            55270 Ober-Olm, F.R. of Germany
>>> Save the environment NOW! <<<           ******  European  Union  ******

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