Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #758
From: Digestifier <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 94 15:14:38 EDT

Linux-Misc Digest #758, Volume #2                Wed, 14 Sep 94 15:14:38 EDT

Contents:
  Re: Linux vs NeXTSTEP (Jason V Robertson)
  Re: 320x200 X resolution? (Stephen Collyer)
  Re: The snatchability factor (was Re: WABI v (Martin Sohnius)
  Re: Copyright and licensing - a plea to software authors (Theodore Y. Ts'o)
  [Q] How maintain "console" entry in utmp file?? (Alexander Kourakos)
  alt.games.doom.linux (was Re: What about a votr on comp.os.linux.doom) (Hans Peter Verne)
  Re: Linux DOOM for X released (Greg Harewood)
  Re: unix on a laptop? (Ajay Shah)
  Re: VHDL for Linux...? (Norley Liu)
  Re: DOOM and Linux (Michael_Leonard KOVACEK)
  Re: VHDL for Linux...? (Frederic POTTER)
  Re: unix on a laptop? (Dan Pop)
  RFD: comp.os.linux.help reorganization (Dave Sill)
  Re: Sony MiniDisc (Mark A. Davis)
  Re: The snatchability factor (WordPerfect) (Mark A. Davis)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: jr7877@eehpx12 (Jason V Robertson)
Subject: Re: Linux vs NeXTSTEP
Date: 13 Sep 1994 23:25:34 GMT

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (S. Hosseini) writes:
>Hi Linuxers,
>
>I know there are lots of Linuxers with high performance PC's, so
>Given the same high performance PC platform, 
>
>
>4. Which one is faster (for the same task) ?
>
>5. Which one has a capability that the other doesn't have?
>
>6. Which one has better future? (this is a question for discussion
>   and not for a definite answer.)
>

Well, I am not a great source since I have only heard about NS.  But from
what I understand you need to redefine "high performance PC" to fit in with
NeXTSTEP.  A high performance Linux station is 486 or above with at least
8 megs (12 for X?).  My understanding is that for NS you need a bare minimum
of like 32 megs to get anything done.  I imagine it is huge, diskwise also.
I don't think you can use X without buying the software for NS.
I think NS probably does have better DOS/Windows compatibility, though.
Linux is only starting to get these.
Also, I don't think NS has any real future.  It is just too big and clumsy.

-- 
Email: [email-masked]
Ph or finger [email-masked] for PGP public key.
(Like I actually need one).

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Stephen Collyer)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development
Subject: Re: 320x200 X resolution?
Date: 14 Sep 1994 13:00:56 GMT

|> Orest Zborowski ([email-masked]) wrote:
|> 
|> : For running DOOM, I use the XF86_SVGA server and chipset "generic"
|> : with a stock VGA 320x200 modes line:
|> : "320x200"       25      320 344 376 400         200 204 206 225
|> 
|> : You can simply run the server, without any clients, and start linuxxdoom
|> : on a VT. Looks very nice!

I don't see how these values work. With a 25 MHz clock, with total V. lines =
400, and total H. lines 225, we're looking at a refresh rate of roughly

25E6 / (400 x 1.1 x 225 x 1.05) = 240 

This is way above the spec of any monitor I'm familiar with. Or am I missing 
something obvious ? 

Steve Collyer.

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.sys.hp,comp.sys.hp.apps,comp.sys.sun.apps,comp.windows.x,comp.windows.x.apps,comp.unix.unixware
From: [email-masked] (Martin Sohnius)
Subject: Re: The snatchability factor (was Re: WABI v
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 14:15:07 GMT

Mark A. Horton KA4YBR ([email-masked]) wrote:
: Mark A. Davis ([email-masked]) wrote:

: : Again, there is no need for a Linux version of WP.  The SCO version runs
: : fine.... pester them for official support of running the SCO version
: : under Linux IBCS/COFF (which is a possibility); don't bother worrying
: : about a native Linux version because it WILL NOT HAPPEN.

: I agree with Mr. Davis here.  It also brings up a rather interesting copyright
: and (patent?) issue which could prove interesting to explore.  Since the 
: product is not supported by WP corporation in the target environment, should
: one purchase such a product and then manage to "make it work" through the
: addition of software in no way connected with the original work (i.e. the 
: IBCS/COFF support) could the purchaser then return the purchased product for
: a refund due to "lack of suitability" to the purchaser's environment and yet
: still continue to use the "assisted" product which the vendor choses not
: to support?  Is this piracy?  The product is not running in any "supported"
: or even officially "sanctioned" environment and is thus unusable and 
: ineligible for support which is a factor in the purchase price of the said
: product.

: I certainly am no legal beagle, however it seems to me that by choosing the
: path of non-support for a given environment that its software can be made to
: run in (with additional non-vendor enhancements) that a company just might
: be abdicating its rights to copyright protection in said environment.  

I would disagree with this conclusion (but then, I would, wouldn't I?).
Assume Ferrari decided not to sell their cars in Greenland.  Does that then
mean you have the right to steal it, put studded tyres onto it, and claim
to own it, just because you happen to drive it in Greenland only?

Of course, anyone else would be free to buy a Ferrari, put studded tyres on,
and then resell it in Greenland.  (I.e. anyone may offer to support SCO WP
in the Linux environment.)

--
                        +--------------------------------------------+
Martin Sohnius          | "It doesn't matter whether the cat is      |
Novell Labs Europe      |  black or white, as long as it catches     |
Bracknell, England      |  mice."      - Deng Xiaoping               |
+44-1344-724031          +--------------------------------------------+
                        (I speak for myself, not for Novell or anyone else.)

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Theodore Y. Ts'o)
Subject: Re: Copyright and licensing - a plea to software authors
Date: 14 Sep 1994 15:41:10 GMT

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Ian Jackson) writes:
>I AM ABSOLUTELY LIVID.  FURIOUS DOESN'T EVEN BEGIN TO DESCRIBE IT.

>Firstly, because Ted Ts'o has joined in with the ignorant flamers.  He
>himself has stooped to spreading the Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt that
>he claims he finds so harmful.

I'm sorry you feel that way.  But your posting was simply inaccurate
regarding the issue of interface copyright.  It is a fact that Stallman
stomped on a source distribution of PGP that merely contained #ifdef's
so that it could be potentially linked with the gmp library, which was
protected by the GPL.  Sure, Stallman and the FSF couched it in very
legalistic terms, and then justified the means with the ends ("Free
Software is Good, so what we did is O.K.").  But that's not any
different from what Lotus did when they tried to use Copyright to
protect their user interface.  It was the same sort of legal mumbo-jumbo
that led to the same sort of result --- a restriction of who can write
independent programs that implement or use a particular interface,
whether that be a UI or an API.

I am very saddened by the FSF's decision to use this very broad
interpretation of the GPL.  I engaged in several e-mail messages
debating this issue with Stallman, over a year ago, when the PGP/gmp
issue came up, and he would not be moved.  He believes he is right, and
he is entitled to that belief.

However, my sadness does not extend to trying to ignore the situation
for what it is.  I will not sweep this situation under the rug.  People
are entitled to know *all* of the issues of the GPL, both its good side
and its shadow side.

However, I would like to reassure people that this has not prevented me
from writing and releasing things that fall under the GPL.  I've written
several programs which I've released under the GPL, and I encourage
others to do so.  However, I would have to think twice before deciding
to release the ownership of any significant amount of code to the FSF,
because of their interpretation of the GPL.  As long as I own the
copyright, I get to control how the GPL is interpreted, and I have
lattitude over granting exceptions to the GPL as I see fit.  If I sign
my code over to the FSF, I lose this control, and right now, I don't
trust the FSF enough to do that.  They have too much of a political
agenda which they are trying to push.

Every author has the right to make this decision for him or herself.  I
don't say that my views are the only right one.  However, I believe that
everyone is entitled to all of the facts, and you, Ian, did not include
all of those facts in an attempt to "reassure" people.  

I believe the cause of free software is best furthered by putting the
truth --- the whole truth --- on the table, and letting the chips fall
where they may.

                                                - Ted

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Alexander Kourakos)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help,comp.os.linux.admin,comp.windows.x.i386unix
Subject: [Q] How maintain "console" entry in utmp file??
Date: 12 Sep 1994 23:58:29 -0400

   I don't know if this question has been brought up before or not...I
would think it has...

   I wrote a small program to place "console" logins (from XDM) into
the utmp, wtmp, and lastlog files.
   However, at random times, some program eats the utmp entry. I think
it's getty, but I'm not sure. (I run getty so my roomate can log in on
ttyS1).
   This is on Linux 1.1.x, with XFree86.

   Right now, "w" says this:

 11:55pm  up  5:48,  4 users,  load average: 0.47, 0.13, 0.18
User     tty      from             login@  idle   JCPU   PCPU  what
awk      ttyp0    :0.0            11:55pm            1         w
awk      ttyp1    :0.0            11:16pm            4         telnet vnet.net
sbolish  ttyS1                     8:19pm            1         pine
awk      console                   9:33pm  2:22                -

   After my roommate logs out, the "console" line disappears. Can
anybody give some pointers? I can most likely fix the problem if I
knew what program is doing this.

   Somebody must have this functionality working on there Linux X
box...

   Thanks....

awk
-- 
Alexander Kourakos
[email-masked]

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Hans Peter Verne)
Crossposted-To: alt.games.doom
Subject: alt.games.doom.linux (was Re: What about a votr on comp.os.linux.doom)
Date: 14 Sep 1994 14:46:48 GMT

In article <[email-masked]> marks-schooner.sys.hou.compaq.com,Internet_(m)@magnet.at ([email-masked],Internet (m)) writes:
   Matthew Grant ([email-masked]) wrote:
   : The New NOISE has started.  We are about to be invaded by " How do you do
   : XXX with Doom?".

   : Lets control the flood and get it out of the road before it starts!

   You have my vote.  Or maybe they should start using alt.games.doom.

The problem is that  alt.games.doom is  very crowded and noisy, with tons of
post about satanism, what is your favorite level or weapon and such...
The questions that are more specific to the linux port tends to drown 
in there. 

Also, linux-wizards that could be helpful might not read a.g.d. , and
DOOM-wizards might not read c.o.l.[mh]   :-)    As it is, I cross-post...

I would rather suggest a  alt.games.doom.linux  group, doom-questions have
nothing to do in the comp-hierarchy....

Followup-To: comp.os.linux.misc

ObDOOM : bang...

Regards,
--
Hans Peter Verne ( [email-masked] )           Phone: (+47)-22855414
Dept. of Chemistry, University of Oslo.          FAX    (+47)-22855441

`It would seem that you have no useful skill or talent whatsoever,
have you thought of going into teaching?'    -- Terry Pratchett, "Mort"

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Greg Harewood)
Subject: Re: Linux DOOM for X released
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 94 13:54:07 GMT
Reply-To: [email-masked] (Greg Harewood)

In article <[email-masked]>,
Michael Peek <[email-masked]> wrote:
>David Taylor ([email-masked]) wrote:
>: DOOM v1.666 for Linux using X is available at:
>
>I wonder: If this is a specific Linux port, and no other ports are in the
>works, it seems to me that the program would pick up a lot of speed if it
>used the SVGALIB routines.  It sure would be easier to see!

As we all know, Linux is the OS. X is not unix.
However...

I for one would feel cheated if all my applications didn't work under X.
X is the front end that allows me to make use of multi-tasking, and it's
what gives credibility when you are trying to convince people that you
don't need MS-Windows, because Linux is better.

Digging up an old thread, the only way I would like to be using SVGALIB
applications on a regular basis is this - the SVGALIB and a suitable
window manager/X patches allowed you to flip between full screen and X
windowed versions of SVGA programs. And it would be nice if the X versions
were portable.

It all comes down to whether we are trying to make Linux the world beating
OS, or Unix in general. You'll get a lot more software for free if we are
talking Unix.

Greg

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.unix.questions
From: [email-masked] (Ajay Shah)
Subject: Re: unix on a laptop?
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 12:28:05 GMT

[email-masked] ([email-masked]) writes:

>Hi I would like to know what it would take to run unix on a laptop.
>some thing like 386bsd or linux.

I live on:

        Compaq Contura 4/25 with 12M RAM and 120M disk.
        Viva pocket fax 14.4k

12M is great for running emacs, make and gcc all at once :-).

I don't run X.  Partly I don't feel like, and partly I have better
things to do with that disk space (like tex).

I am on Linux (Slackware 2.0).

It works like a charm.  I have duplicated my entire work environment
on a Sun on the notebook.  When I landup at work I plug in a null
modem cable from the comport on the notebook into the serial port of
the SS5, this gives me a 38400 baud line.  Right now I do dialup
login, but I'll soon have SLIP running.

I have a dlink parallel port ethernet adapter but it doesn't quite
work for me.  Besides, I have only one 10baseT in my office and
it'd be a pain shuffling that between the Sun and the notebook.
So 38.4k serial port instead of 115k parallel port is fine.

        -ans.
-- 
==============================================================================
Ajay Shah                                                  Work: 91-22-4300531
Centre for Monitoring Indian Economy, Bombay               Fax:  91-22-4370558
[email-masked]                                     Home: 91-22-6420584

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Norley Liu)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development,comp.lsi.cad,comp.lang.vhdl
Subject: Re: VHDL for Linux...?
Date: 14 Sep 1994 14:07:14 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, Don Hiatt <[email-masked]> wrote:
>ADA ([email-masked]) wrote:
>
>Yes there is. Get the Alliance-2.0 package. You can ftp the source
>from: ftp.ibp.fr
>You will find it in /ibp/softs/masi/alliance
>
>Alliance is aimed at VLSI synthesis but if that is not your goal
>you can still use the VHDL simulator.. BTW, it is a great package.
>
>don

Alliance covers so small subset of VHDL that it is virtually useless in
term of doing design using Alliance.  It may be a great tool to learn the VLSI
design-synthesis-layout-verification flow, but definitely not a VHDL
tool for design, IMHO.

Let me tell you what you can do in Alliance: Boolean functions, 
flip flops, muxes. That is all. No conditional statement (like if...then),
no sequential statement (like process), no file I/O (so don't expect to 
create test bench), and no arithmatic operations (like + - * /).  
Overall, you can not do behavioral modeling in Alliance.

Worset of all, all files in document directory were empty.

I wish I was wrong.  Using Alliance would save me $3K to buy Model 
Tech's package.  Again, it totally depends on what you are expecting out
of Alliance.  In term of a design modeling, I suggest you stay away
from Alliance.

Albert

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: alt.games.doom
From: [email-masked] (Michael_Leonard KOVACEK)
Subject: Re: DOOM and Linux
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1994 23:24:41 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Miguel de Icaza) writes:
> > Gee, even though the README says "no bug reports," does anyone think iD 
> > can be convinced to fix this?
> 
> Maybe if they receive lots of request for registering Doom/Linux, they
> will enhance the product.

        Another pointer, if they setup some way to indicate which copies of Doom
were being purchased with linux Doom in mind, then we could show them how many
of us there are willing to pay for Doom..
        A simple check box on the registration mail-back form would do..

        Michael

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Frederic POTTER)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development,comp.lsi.cad,comp.lang.vhdl
Subject: Re: VHDL for Linux...?
Date: 14 Sep 1994 13:22:11 GMT

And don't forget about the complete ALLIANCE tools

VHDL, logic synthesis, router, layout editor, layout extraction 
etc.....

just go at ftp.ibp.fr ( alliance sub-directory ) and get
or the sources, or the linux binaries for FREE..

O---------------------------------------------------------------O
|    +---+         , ,                                          |
|   / \ / \      Frederic POTTER : Equipe R-CUBE, Labo. MASI    |
|  /   /   \                       de l'Institut Blaise Pascal  |
| +---+ \   \                                                   |
|  \   \ +---+   Couloir 55-65, 2eme etage.                     | 
|   \   /   /                                                   |
|    \ / \ /     Universite Pierre et Marie Curie (P6)          |
|     +---+      4 place Jussieu, 75252 Paris Cedex 05          |
|                                                               |
| Tel  : + 33 1 44 27 39 67   Fax   :   + 33 1 44 27 62 86      |
| Telex:     UPMCSIX200145F   e-mail:   [email-masked]      |
o---------------------------------------------------------------o

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.unix.questions
From: [email-masked] (Dan Pop)
Subject: Re: unix on a laptop?
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 16:42:50 GMT

In <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Ajay Shah) writes:

>I have a dlink parallel port ethernet adapter but it doesn't quite
>work for me.  Besides, I have only one 10baseT in my office and
>it'd be a pain shuffling that between the Sun and the notebook.
>So 38.4k serial port instead of 115k parallel port is fine.

Except that 38.4 is kbit/s (actually less, because of the overhead of
start/stop bits) and 115 is kbyte/s :-)

So, the difference is more than one order of magnitude. But if it's fine
for you...

Dan
--
Dan Pop 
CERN, CN Division
Email: [email-masked]
Mail:  CERN - PPE, Bat. 31 R-004, CH-1211 Geneve 23, Switzerland

------------------------------

From: Dave Sill <[email-masked]>
Crossposted-To: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.os.linux.help,comp.os.linux.announce
Subject: RFD: comp.os.linux.help reorganization
Date: 14 Sep 1994 13:30:45 -0400

I recently conducted a straw poll in comp.os.linux.help regarding splitting
that group.  As a result of that poll, I've decided to propose the
following:

    1) Create comp.os.linux.help.hardware
    2) Create comp.os.linux.help.software
    3) Create comp.os.linux.help.video
    4) Create comp.os.linux.help.misc (comp.os.linux.help to be deleted)
    5) Create comp.os.linux.answers

From my article summarizing the poll results:
        
I received a total of 49 votes: 46 FOR, 3 AGAINST.  (A list of the e-mail
addresses is at the end of this article) [deleted]

There is clear support for a split of comp.os.linux.help along these lines. 
Among the comments received were suggestions for further splits of
c.o.l.help and the creation of other Linux-related groups.  (Complete
summary of responses available upon request.)  Based upon these comments,
I'll be proposing the following comp.os.linux.* re-organization:

    1. Replace comp.os.linux.help with:

        comp.os.linux.help.hardware
            For help with questions or problems specific to a particular
            piece of hardware.

        comp.os.linux.help.software
            For help with questions or problems not specific to a particular
            piece of hardware.

        comp.os.linux.help.video
            For help with questions or problems relating to video hardware
            or software.  I know this wasn't part of the original straw
            poll, and that comp.windows.x.i386 ought to be used, but many
            newbies don't know about c.w.x.i.

        comp.os.linux.help.misc
            For help with questions or problems that don't fit in any of the
            other help categories, e.g., if yoy don't know whether it's a
            hardware or software question.

    2. Create:
        comp.os.linux.answers
            For posting Linux FAQs and How-To's.  This will help keep the
            traffic down in the c.o.l.help.* groups--only a single "Read
            before posting"-type message will be required.

-- 
Dave Sill ([email-masked])
Martin Marietta Energy Systems, Workstation Support
URL http://www.digital.com/info/dsill.html

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Mark A. Davis)
Subject: Re: Sony MiniDisc
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1994 21:05:13 GMT

Alberto Vignani <[email-masked]> writes:

>Does anybody have some info about the new Sony MiniDiscs (or whatever they
>are called)? I heard they will be 340MB magneto-optical R/W 2.5" discs 
>costing less than 10$ apiece; the controller will be also very low-cost
>(400$?), maybe with floppy interface, maybe IDE.
>They are supposed to come in volume before the end of the year.
>I'm curious to know if someone heard the same rumors, and/or knows if and
>when this media will be supported by Linux.

Sounds interesting.... too bad people can't forget about braindead IDE
and stick with SCSI, though.

I would interested in any such information also!
-- 
  /--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
  | Mark A. Davis     | Lake Taylor Hospital | Norfolk,VA (804)-461-5001x431 |
  | Director/SysAdmin | Information Systems  |    [email-masked]       |
  \--------------------------------------------------------------------------/

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.unix.unixware
From: [email-masked] (Mark A. Davis)
Subject: Re: The snatchability factor (WordPerfect)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1994 21:07:21 GMT

[email-masked] (Richard J. Wyble) writes:

>In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Eckehard Stolz) writes:
>>
>>- I would love to see WP for Linux at a reasonable price

>"Reasonable" is a relative term which everyone must interpret for their
>situation.

Very true.

>We purchased WordPerfect (SCO Unix version5.1) from WordPerfect for $99 U.S.
>dollars earlier this year. This is a single-user license and the price is
>based upon already owning version 5.1 for other platforms. This appears a
>most reasonable price.

Indeed it is reasonable- but it is not really a puchase, but an upgrade.
Still, I don't think $299 or less is all that bad for a powerful and
feature packed word processor.
-- 
  /--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
  | Mark A. Davis     | Lake Taylor Hospital | Norfolk,VA (804)-461-5001x431 |
  | Director/SysAdmin | Information Systems  |    [email-masked]       |
  \--------------------------------------------------------------------------/

------------------------------

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End of Linux-Misc Digest
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