Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #768
From: Digestifier <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 94 05:13:22 EDT

Linux-Misc Digest #768, Volume #2                Fri, 16 Sep 94 05:13:22 EDT

Contents:
  Re: Horrific bug in DOOM! (MS-DOS lives!) (Shawn L. Baird)
  Mail Order Linux Workstation Vendors (E. Robert Tisdale)
  Re: Linux vs NeXTSTEP (Derrik Walker II)
  Re: OS/2 fan wants to try Linux.. What do I need ?? (A. Rohde)
  Re: Go for Linux available! (Christopher Wiles)
  Re: Word Processor for Linux? (Mike Stancliff)
  Linux X DOOM performance (explanation) (David Taylor)
  Re: Have you bought from Fintronics? (Steven Pritchard)
  Re: Horrific bug in DOOM! (Stephen David  Wray)
  [Q] Any video processing tools for Linux ? (Andreas Busse)
  Re: Word Processor for Linux? (Philip Brown)
  AFTERMATH: Floppy Problems (Robert Spier)
  Re: CorelDRAW for Unix (Thomas Davis)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Shawn L. Baird)
Subject: Re: Horrific bug in DOOM! (MS-DOS lives!)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 17:42:37 GMT

[email-masked] (Mark A. Davis) writes:
>My point, originally, is that the word DOS has nothing to do with
>Microsoft... neither does the word "windows".  The proper names for those
>products always have been, and still are MS-DOS and MS-Windows!  Microsoft

Yes, but so what?  Proper names are not neccesarily common names.  The fact
is that anything which bothers to call itself a "disk operating system" is
most likely an obsolete design anyway.

>could not, cannot, and will not be able to register common, generic
>English words to their exclusive use.  That would be like trying to 

Yet come companies have become so definite that their names have become
the common term for the product.  It's not proper to call a kleenex a
kleenex, but it certainly is common.  The fact is that regardless of the
proper name of things, people are going to occasionally use a different
common term.  DOS is one of these things, so is Windows (or Windoze if
you prefer).

[ ... cute example removed ... ]

>(Now substitute "windows", above in context of MS-Windows, X-Windows,
>Amiga Windows, windows on your car, windows as an abstract concept of GUI, etc)

Here we talk of proper names and you don't even use the correct ones above.
X is called simply that, and MIT, I believe it is, has long grumbled about
people calling it X-Windows.  X Windowing System might be acceptable, I seem
to recall that their objection is to the X being directly tied to the plural
form of window.  I've never heard of the Amiga environment being called
Amiga Windows, either.  I believe the proper name is still Intuition (and
Workbench which represents sort of an AmigaDOS frontend, but is not really
the windowing system proper).  Most people don't seem to be getting confused
as to what is what, so why worry?

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (E. Robert Tisdale)
Subject: Mail Order Linux Workstation Vendors
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 94 05:03:05 GMT

I have been keeping a list of "Mail Order Linux Workstation Vendors"
which I post from time to time in this and other newsgroups.

All of the vendors listed below will install Linux on the machines that
they sell but provide varying amounts of support for it.  I have not dealt
with any of these vendors except 20/20 Technologies so I cannot recommend
them to you.  Both SW Technology and Fintronic USA, Inc. are listed in the
Distribution-HOWTO and 20/20 Technologies should also appear there soon.

Three vendors (20/20 Technologies, SW Technology and Fintronic USA, Inc.)
sell Pentium based workstations which run Linux and the X Window System.
In order to get a feel for the prices these vendors were charging,
I asked each vendor to give me a quote for the following configuration:

*       66MHz P5 CPU with heatsink & cooling fan (Intel Pentium or equivalent)
*       PCI system board with 256kbyte 15ns cache upgradeable to 512kbyte,
        three busmaster PCI slots and five 16bit ISA slots
        (ASUS I-P5MP3 or equivalent) (Intel Mercury II chipset or equivalent)
*       16Mbyte 70ns system memory, expandable to 192Mbyte
*       PCI video card with 1Mbyte RAM (Orchid Kelvin 64 or equivalent)
*       15" 0.27mm dot pitch 1280x1024 non-interlaced color monitor
        (Viewsonic or equivalent)
*       32bit busmaster PCI Fast SCSI II adaptor (NCR53C810 or equivalent)
*       1080Mbyte 10ms fast SCSI II hard drive with 512kbyte buffer
        (Fujitsu M2694ES or equivalent)
*       Double Speed CDROM Drive (Sony CDU33A or equivalent)
*       1.44Mbyte Floppy Disk Drive (Teac or equivalent)
*       2 high speed serial ports with 16550A UART, 1 parallel port
*       Minitower case with 250Watt power supply, FCC class B   
*       3 button X compatible serial mouse
*       101 key keyboard
*       Linux, X and LILO installed and configured properly.
        Latest publicly released Linux kernel, full distribution
        of Linux utilities. DOSemulator and X windows configured
        to fit the hardware for optimal performance.
        Manual for the system, the system components and
        "Linux, Installation and Getting Started Guide"
        Two year parts and labor warranty, 30 day money back guarantee.
         
Enjoy, Bob Tisdale ([email-masked])

                SW Technology
                251 West Renner Suite 229
                Richardson, TX 75080
                Tel: (214) 907-0871
                Fax: (214) 907-9339
                Net: [email-masked]
                Price: $2769
                Contact: Marvin Wu

                20/20 Technologies
                1786 Westwood Boulevard
                West Los Angeles, CA 90024
                Tel: (310) 441-8855
                     (800) 486-2020
                Fax: (310) 441-8869
                Net: [email-masked]
                Price: $3199
                Contact: Gary Johnson

                Fintronic USA, Inc.
                1360 Willow Rd., Suite 205
                Menlo Park, CA 94025
                Tel: (415) 325-4474
                Fax: (415) 325-4908
                Net: [email-masked]
                URL: http://www.fintronic.com/linux/catalog.html
                Price: $4122 (90MHz P54)
                Contact: James Vera

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Derrik Walker II)
Subject: Re: Linux vs NeXTSTEP
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 05:00:33 GMT

S. Hosseini ([email-masked]) wrote:
: Hi Linuxers,

: I know there are lots of Linuxers with high performance PC's, so
: there is a good chance that some of them have thought about 
: installing NeXTSTEP, or have had experience with
: it and now converted to Linux, or maybe currently working with both 
: OS's on the same platorm.
: I want to ask the following:

: Given the same high performance PC platform, 

: 1. Which is cheaper to get?
:      (Answer is easy) Linux, of course. This is one of
:      the main advantages of Linux. Otherwise I wouldn't be using it.

Educational users can get a butt-kicking deal. About $300.00 for the OS 
and the Developement environment.  But it is not still free.

: 2. Which one is easier to install and has less problem with existing 
:    PC hardware?

Next Step is easier to install, if you have the right hardware.  It is 
extreamly pickiy about hardware.  You can get the Compatabillity guide 
from ftp.next.com.

: 3. Which one has more choice of application software?

Well, with an x package like coexist, NS can run ns, unix, and x 
software.  It runs unix software fine. I have compiled several apps for 
it with little or no problems.  You just can't run x out of the box.

: 4. Which one is faster (for the same task) ?

Depends on what compiler was used.  gcc is better than cc.  Os stuff 
Linux is better.  But then again, Linux isn't wrap-aound post script.

: 5. Which one has a capability that the other doesn't have?

NS has this awsome environment for development.  It makes borlands look 
silly.  It is completly object orinted.  Also the GUI is the easiest.  It 
makes the Mac look complicated.

FVWM on linux isn't as easy to set upo and run.  Nad configureing it 
takes some hacking.

: 6. Which one has better future? (this is a question 
for discussion :    and not for a definite answer.)

Well, NS is growing strong in the buisness world, because of the ease of 
use and application building.  Linux is growing popular with college 
students and hackers.

I use both along with Macsa, pcs, and several UNIX's.  I can tell you 
from experince that NS is a far beter OS.  But it has a high price.  It 
is in the perfomance catogory as NT and requires a lot of system to run.  
I have seen it run on as little as a Dell 486dx2-50 w/ jaws video and 16m 
ram.  It was way slower than our NeXTStaion Turbo (a 25Mgz 040 w/ 32 megs).
We now have a 486dx2-66 w/16 megs.  It's a duel boot with NS and linux.  
NS is a lot more relaible, but slower.  Linux is a lot faster, but less 
realiable.

I am moving to Linux soon (from a mac) and hope to run NS in the future.

I use both regularly so feel free to email me with any spacific questions 
you may have.

I hope I have helped

-Derrik
===============================================================================
 Derrik Walker II                                 Student of Computer Sciences
 Cleveland State University                  Automation Assistant, Law Library
 [email-masked]                            [email-masked]
===============================================================================
        http://pclab19.law.csuohio.edu:8099/html/dwalker/home.html

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (A. Rohde)
Subject: Re: OS/2 fan wants to try Linux.. What do I need ??
Date: 15 Sep 1994 14:11:23 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Jim Chisholm) writes:
|> Hi folks..
|> I'm a long time advocate of OS/2 and I am curious about Linux..
|> 
|> 1)will it run on a386DX40 8M ?
yes

|> 2)how much HD is required ?
100MB are sufficient if you don't install everything

|> 3)does it require it's own partition or can it live alongside DOS and OS/2 in 
|> the same partition ?
Can run on a DOS partition (UMSDOS) although I never tried this 

|> 4)can it be booted from DOS or does it require it's own boot manager ?
You can use OS/2's bootmanager in conjunction with lilo (LInuxLOader)

|> 5)what are the files required to get me up and running ?
Get the Slackware distribution from a near FTP site ( ~50 Disk, you don't need
all)
|> 6)where can I get these ?
a mirror of sunsite.unc.edu. There is a list of mirrors at sunsite.unc.edu in
/pub/Linux

|> 7)no flames please about not having read the FAQs, I don't know which farqing 
|> faqs to read !!

You SHOULD read the DOCS, that come with Slackware BEFORE doing anything (just
before getting all 50 disks via ftp)

Axel

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Christopher Wiles)
Subject: Re: Go for Linux available!
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 19:28:31 GMT

[email-masked] (Randy Hootman) writes:
: I have xgoban and wally up and running under Linux. If you are a go 
: player and interested, you can anonymous ftp from:
: 
: ftp.netcom.com /pub/rph/xgoban-wally.tgz

.. but permissions are such that one cannot enter /pub/rph ...

-- Chris

[email-masked]   [email-masked]   [email-masked]
       "... but I want to use all eight comm ports SIMULTANEOUSLY!"
   PGP 2.6 public key available by finger for the clinically paranoid.

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Mike Stancliff)
Subject: Re: Word Processor for Linux?
Date: 14 Sep 1994 23:03:40 -0400

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Adam Wasserman) wrote:
...stuff deleted...
> 
> If linux had 1) a good word processor, 2) Quicken, and 3) ran my dos/windows
> multi-media toys, I'd wipe dos/windows off my disk completely.  Assistance
> appreciated!
> 

Amen!! Hallelujah!  I don't even need my multi-media toys...  Now, if I
were only a better programmer...

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (David Taylor)
Subject: Linux X DOOM performance (explanation)
Date: 16 Sep 1994 01:51:36 -0500

For those of you curious about the different performances under
DOS and Linux, here's some explanation.

What you may think of as the obvious culprit, X Windows, is not
the only problem.  X really doesn't slow things down much if you're
in single-pixel mode, not running anything else requiring X services
while the game is running, and have enough RAM to keep its active
footprint in memory.  Nor is context switching for the X server or
sound server code a nasty hit as this is done quite rarely in the
scope of things.

The Linux version has no assembly.  This affects the texture-mapping
speed quite a bit.  First, there's the obvious speed payoff of
doing anything in the inner loop of an algorithm in assembly.
Second, in DOS, the routines render directly to the frame buffer
using a mode which ISA cards suffer only their bus speed and not
the width.  That's probably quite a large chunk of the performance
hit as there is no end-of-rendering screen slam for this.

The hit from sound is experienced in both DOS and Linux, but the
hit under DOS is much smaller.  This is for several reasons.  Once
again, the DOS inner-loop is in assembly.  Also, the DOS version
mixes channels at a time instead of samples at a time.  This is a
lot faster.  The Linux sound code was almost straight from the SGI
code (where something processing an 11kHz sound stream is completely
inconsequential to system resources).

So what you're playing with is a completely C game in X with very
hastily-written sound code for the SGI.  It's basically a tribute
to what you get nowadays with -O from modern C compilers.  Not bad.

        =-ddt->

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Steven Pritchard)
Subject: Re: Have you bought from Fintronics?
Date: 15 Sep 1994 23:50:20 -0600

[email-masked] (Michael P. Jarreau) writes:

>I am preparing to buy a PC with linux built in from a company called
>Fintronics (Melno Park, CA, USA).

>Can you tell me anything about the company?

They had a somewhat flattering write-up in last month's BYTE.  It is 
probably still on the stands.  Check it out.

Steve
-- 
[email-masked]             |  Steven
[email-masked]             |  Pritchard
GCS/M/S d? p+ c++(++++) l++ u+(-) e+ m+(---) s/+ !n h--- f+ g+ w@ t++ r- y?

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Stephen David  Wray)
Subject: Re: Horrific bug in DOOM!
Date: 15 Sep 1994 05:38:08 GMT

> > > The original name for the glorified boot loader now known as MS-DOS
> > > was QDOS, which stood for Quick and Dirty Operating System.  Note that
> > > the letter Q has since been dropped.

Bizzarre -- here, QDOS is a brand of underpants...
Hmm... maybe theres a connection...

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Andreas Busse)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development
Subject: [Q] Any video processing tools for Linux ?
Date: 15 Sep 1994 15:23:49 GMT

Hi everybody,

I wonder if there are any video processing tools available
for Linux, either free or commercial. Any hints are welcome,
but please mail me.

TIA,

Andy

===============================================================================
        Waldorf Electronics GmbH        | Phone:  +49 (0)2636-80294
              R&D Department            | Fax:    +49 (0)2636-80188
Neustrasse 9-12, 53498 Waldorf, Germany | email:  [email-masked]
===============================================================================

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Philip Brown)
Subject: Re: Word Processor for Linux?
Date: 16 Sep 1994 06:04:05 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
 <[email-masked]> wrote:
>Has no one tried ez from the AUIS package (auis63LO-wp.tgz)?  I realize
>it's only 1/8th of the whole AUIS system, but Linux Journal even ran an
>article on it.  So I got frustrated with this thread and d/l it from
>sunsite.  It looks like a fancy word processor.  Ghostview ran into
>problems when I tried to preview the sample document -- could this
>be the reason no one talks about ez when the Word Processing/Spreadsheat
>thread comes up?

Actrually, you just didn't know the tricks of the trade. You can view
just about anything you create in ez by doing

ezprint -t file.ez | groff -ept >file.ps

and THEN using ghostview on it.

There are two problems with why ez isn't talked about much:

1) Development on it is done by a very small number of people, and it has
  fallen out of favour at its own college development site.

2) It can be a pain to set up, and there is no easy (ahem) way to just
   compile the editor. It is part of the humungeous package of AUIS, and
   thus will be forever buried in obscurity.

   (To fix this, there should be a separate release of JUST the editor.
    But given the attitudes and priorities of the developers, I doubt
    this will ever happen)

-- 
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Philip Brown, author of "kdrill", and "xmandel"
[email-masked] [email-masked]

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Robert Spier)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
Subject: AFTERMATH: Floppy Problems
Date: 15 Sep 1994 06:03:16 GMT

Has anyone experience floppy drive problems after removing all traces of
Linux and lilo from a hd via FDISK and format?

I don't think it's possible to have a problem caused by that still, 
but the guy who's incharge of the computers insists that it's caused by
something left over.

Help!

[reply via email if possible]
--
-Robert
[[email-masked]]                     ICBM: 40 55' 40" N  73 45' 08" W    
                        "What fools those mortals be.."
           http://www.cloud9.net/~rspier || finger for more info

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Thomas Davis)
Subject: Re: CorelDRAW for Unix
Date: 16 Sep 1994 06:03:57 GMT

Mark A. Davis ([email-masked]) wrote:
: [email-masked] (Mats 'MaDsen' Wikholm) writes:

: >In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (philip m. thompson) writes:
: >>

: Personally, I have not heard any definate confirmations on running SCO
: CorelDRAW under Linux ICBS; but there is a very good chance that it will...
: You can always buy it and try it!  Many good vendors will allow returns
: if it does not work on your equipment (just don't tell them you are running
: it on unsupported Linux!)

I've got the Corel 3 for Unix demo CDROM, and yes, it has on it the
CorelDRAW for SCO & Univel on it.  Last time I tried it, the SCO version
worked great, the Univel version didn't (missing shared libraries of
some sort).

Even the license manager worked (for SCO).

Call Corel and ask for the demo CDROM.

-- 
Thomas Davis                    | Internet:     [email-masked]
Freelance Systems Consultant    | 
Davis Systems                   | Snail Mail:   8803 Webster Plaza
(402) 346-7687                  |               Omaha, NE 68114

------------------------------

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End of Linux-Misc Digest
******************************