Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #796
From: Digestifier <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 94 21:13:22 EDT

Linux-Misc Digest #796, Volume #2                Wed, 21 Sep 94 21:13:22 EDT

Contents:
  Re: How to use a host as a router - READ THIS (Frank van Maarseveen)
  BOCO Nightmare !! Solution !! (Tim Bass (Network Systems Engineer))
  Re: Linux vs NeXTSTEP (Dave Coons)
  Re: Do HP SCSI DAT drives work? (Mike Stanbro)
  Re: What is the granularity of the Linux clock ? (Peter Moulder)
  Re: Where is ftape? (Timothy Murphy)
  Re: Word Processor for Linux? (Remco Treffkorn)
  Re: WORD PROCESSORS FOR LINUX! (Remco Treffkorn)
  Re: How to use a host as a router - READ THIS (David - Morris)
  Re: Biz.comp.linux* (Andries Kruithof)
  Re: which is better: Mitsumi or Panasonic CDROM? (Harry C Pulley)
  Re: NCR PCI SCSI controllers (Drew Eckhardt)
  Re: TSENG W32 Server (Andrew Robert Ellsworth)
  MODULA-2 for Linux? (George Braybrook)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.admin,alt.uu.comp.os.linux.questions
From: [email-masked] (Frank van Maarseveen)
Subject: Re: How to use a host as a router - READ THIS
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 12:11:49 GMT

Jay Ashworth ([email-masked]) wrote:
        [text deleted]
> A typical route information output in such a case might look like this...
>
> Destination    Gateway          Netmask       Flags   MSS    iface
> 127.0.0.1      127.0.0.1        255.0.0.0     UH      1536   lo0
> 199.245.227.0  199.245.227.254  255.255.255.0 U       1436   eth0
> default        198.147.221.1    255.255.255.0 U       1436   ppp0

Why has the loopback route a destination 127.0.0.1 instead of 127.0.0.0
in accordance with the specified netmask?
The loopback interface could have IP address 127.0.0.1 and connect to
a loopback network 127.0.0.0 with netmask 255.0.0.0 (conceptually)

About assigning the same IP address to multiple interfaces on the same
host:
One could argue that this is "correct" as long as the outer world cannot
see any difference. Consider all interfaces as one big specially designed
interface with the software (linux) hiding the differences. So, as long
as the software supports this concept it is correct IMHO.

______________________________________________________________________
Frank van Maarseveen            _____   _   _           [email-masked]
Tasking BV                       /_    / |_/ /
Plotterweg 31                   /  \/_/    _/    phone : +31 33 558584
Amersfoort, The Netherlands                        fax : +31 33 550033
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
When I hear of Schrodingers cat, I reach for my gun ---  S. W. Hawking

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Tim Bass (Network Systems Engineer))
Subject: BOCO Nightmare !! Solution !!
Date: 21 Sep 1994 01:50:46 GMT

Thanks for the help on the BOCA 8 port nightmare!!
Got a BOCA 16 port and all is well (well, at least
the serial saga begins!)

Thanks Planet Linux !

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Dave Coons)
Subject: Re: Linux vs NeXTSTEP
Date: 19 Sep 1994 23:21:40 GMT

Jason V Robertson (jr7877@eehpx12) wrote:
> Well, I am not a great source since I have only heard about NS.  But from
> what I understand you need to redefine "high performance PC" to fit in with
> NeXTSTEP.  A high performance Linux station is 486 or above with at least
> 8 megs (12 for X?).  My understanding is that for NS you need a bare minimum
> of like 32 megs to get anything done.  I imagine it is huge, diskwise also.
> I don't think you can use X without buying the software for NS.
> I think NS probably does have better DOS/Windows compatibility, though.
> Linux is only starting to get these.
> Also, I don't think NS has any real future.  It is just too big and clumsy.

NEXTSTEP is undeniably the finest operating system I have ever used.
The user interface is intelligently thought out, the operating system is
object oriented from the ground up, and the application development tools
were the first of their kind.  I have an original NeXT box on my desk
for doing day-to-day office tasks like mail, remote logins, word
processing and spreadsheets.  I also upgraded a while back with their
NeXTdimension color card, which increases my workspace by adding a color
monitor (better for graphics) next to the original monochrome (better for
text).  Operating System upgrades and Software installation are a snap.

As for memory requirements, 8 megs is too little, 16 enough for most work,
and 32 is perfect.  The 105 MB disks shipped with the newer workstations
was too small, but 330 MB can support the entire suite of development tools
and a few extras like Tetris.

One area where the NeXT's weren't too strong was add-on cards, a problem
surely remedied by the 486 port.  Unfortunately, only a limited number of
configurations are officially supported, and device drivers for special
cards are harder to come by.  I once hired a consultant to adapt a PC
ISA bus camera controller card to work in the NeXT, but it was expensive
and the prototype ended up being the only one ever built.  The driver was
also difficult, and required inside information from NeXT on how their
kernel worked.  Most people won't be in this situation, however.

Ironically, since our new project required a PC and a custom processing
card, Linux was suggested by a co-worker and presents a serious challenge
to NEXTSTEP.  It enjoys a rapidly widening user base and is at an exciting
time in its growth curve.  Although I'm no fan of X, Linux provides as
generic a software platform as can be had, and all sorts of software is
supported.  We also have quite a few in-house X applications that would
be nice to run without having to run an X server atop NeXT's Display
Postscript engine.

NeXT was light years ahead of the competition when they came out, and I
hope they stay aggressive for the future without letting the industry
standards overtake them.

David Coons
Walt Disney Feature Animation
[email-masked]

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Mike Stanbro)
Subject: Re: Do HP SCSI DAT drives work?
Date: 20 Sep 1994 10:50:13 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Richard Giles) writes:
|> Anybody know if HP SCSI DAT drives work on Linux. We have an Adaptec SCSI
|> card which is already working with a 1 Gig. hard disc.
|> 
|> Also, can you have multiple backups on the 1 tape.
|> 
|> Richard
|> 
|> ------------------------------------------
|> Richard Giles (Data Systems Dept.)
|> Fisons Instruments Surface Systems
|> Tel. (+044) 342 327211  Fax. (+044) 342 315074
|> EMail: [email-masked]
|>        or [email-masked] (backup only)
|> Compuserve: 100065,132
|> 

I am running an HP DAT tape with Linux.  Can't comment on multiple backups
on 1 tape as I have not done it let.  I assume that the tar "append"
function will work properly as it does on my QIC tape which is also SCSI.

You will want to read the SCSI How-to information about creating device
driver files.  It is very easy and only takes a few minutes.

Good luck.
 
=========================
Michael Stanbro
Oregon Graduate Institute
Beaverton, Oregon
[email-masked]

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Peter Moulder)
Subject: Re: What is the granularity of the Linux clock ?
Date: 19 Sep 1994 17:37:15 GMT

Kevin Esler ([email-masked]) wrote:
: Can a Linux user tell me what is the length of the clock tick on Linux ?
: The following program, when compiled and run, will print it out:

: >-----------------------------------------------------------------<
: #include <unistd.h>
: main ()
: {
:     printf ("%d\n", sysconf(_SC_CLK_TCK));
: }
: >-----------------------------------------------------------------<

Both the above prog and the macro CLK_TCK give 100 (ticks per second).

Peter.

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Timothy Murphy)
Subject: Re: Where is ftape?
Date: 19 Sep 1994 19:25:49 +0100

[email-masked] (Robert Broughton) writes:

>The subject says it all. I looked around on sunsite for it, and didn't find
>it.

The binaries are in Slackware 2.0.0 ap series (ap4).

-- 
Timothy Murphy  
e-mail: [email-masked]
tel: +353-1-2842366
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Remco Treffkorn)
Subject: Re: Word Processor for Linux?
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 09:25:05 GMT
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I just bought WORDPERFECT 6.0a for windows for $87 (competitive upgrade) and
called WP for an upgrade for SCO (linux with iBCS). This will cost me another
$99 plus s/h. They know Linux! So, for around $200 I will have WP runing on
Linux. I think this is not bad.

I have not yet received my copy, but if anybody wants to know, I will
report... 
-- 

Remco Treffkorn, DC2XT
[email-masked]
(408) 685-1201

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Remco Treffkorn)
Subject: Re: WORD PROCESSORS FOR LINUX!
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 09:34:19 GMT
Reply-To: [email-masked]

JM ([email-masked]) wrote:
(nothing)

WordPerfect

-- 

Remco Treffkorn, DC2XT
[email-masked]
(408) 685-1201

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (David - Morris)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.admin,alt.uu.comp.os.linux.questions
Subject: Re: How to use a host as a router - READ THIS
Date: 21 Sep 1994 19:13:07 GMT

Re. why not 127.0.0.0 instead of 127.0.0.1 -- the destination address must
be a 'host' address and the host address can't be zero (0).

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Andries Kruithof)
Subject: Re: Biz.comp.linux*
Date: 19 Sep 1994 13:15:38 GMT
Reply-To: [email-masked]

=>As to support from Yggdrasil themselves, while they often reply to col.help
=>questions, they also state their policy in their manual: custom support
=>is "for money" via a 900 line (although they have also outlined a
                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know 900-numbers can only be called
from within the USA (this is at least true for 800-numbers). This means that
for people outside the USA there is NO place to ask Yggdrasil questions.

---
====================================
| Message is author's opinion only |
|                                  |
| Andries Kruithof                 |
| Schlumberger Geco-Prakla         |
| [email-masked]    |
====================================

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Harry C Pulley)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
Subject: Re: which is better: Mitsumi or Panasonic CDROM?
Date: 21 Sep 1994 12:52:20 GMT

Heiko Schlittermann ([email-masked]) wrote:
: In article <[email-masked]>,
: Harry C Pulley <[email-masked]> wrote:
: >Cnd$ I can get the Mitsumi for $225 (with card) and the Panasonic/SB16
: >multimedia kit with disks for $399.

: I can't advise you anything, because I don't know the Panasonic.  And
: about the prices I'm irritated - what relation has the Can$ to the US$
: or to the DM?

The Mitsumi price came down to $200 Cnd$.  The Canadian dollar is worth
somewhere around 0.73-0.74 U.S.$ right now.

: >Any comments on which is better or worse with Linux and why?  I have seen a few
: >complaints about Mitsumi here about the IRQ for the card (which someone said
: >could easily be fixed by altering a header file).

: The known Mitsumi drivers don't use the interrupt anyway, so perhaps
: it could be disabled and the code could be cleaned up to prevent the
: driver occupying an interrupt.

: But  --- I'm in progress of rewriting the driver so it will use the
: interrupt.  I can't see any problem.  You can select the interrupt on
: the controller card of the mitsumi and then you have to set it in
: mcd.h to reflect the controller settings.  (Just in same manner you
: have to do it now.)

: It's written about Mitsumis unability in reading XA Disks (Photo CD?).
: But it's written too, that it's a drivers problem, not a problem of
: the drive.  The currently knwon drivers don't seem to support the XA
: disks.  -- It's on somebody's  own (perhaps on my) to do any effort to
: the driver to make it XA-able.

Yes, I know that all the limitations are due to the driver.  Under DOS/Windows
the Mitsumi can read anything.  I don't plan on using photo CDs in the near
future anyways.  By the time I need to use one maybe it will be supported.

I bought the Mitsumi yesterday.  Installed like a charm.  Kernel recompile was
simple as always.  I am listening to 'from the cradel' by Eric clapton with
WorkMan as I type this.  Very nice program by the way.

I got the Mitsumi because it is a bit cheaper here but more because the
Mitsumi's seek time (1/3 stroke) is 250ms and full stroke is 380ms.  The
Panasonic's 1/3 stroke is 380ms.  This is a big difference.  No, I didn't do
any side by side benchmarks on it, I'm going on spec sheets here.

Anyways, I am happy with my purchase and would like to thank all who offered
their advice.  If anyone needs to beta test new Mitsumi drivers, drop me a note
and I'll be happy to do some tiger testing.

Harry
--
<:-{}   [email-masked]       |This message released|It takes all kinds,
 \      Harry C. Pulley, IV       |to the PUBLIC DOMAIN.|and to each his own.
==================================+=====================|This thought in mind,
Stay away from the DOS side, Luke!|Un*x don't play that.|I walk alone.

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Drew Eckhardt)
Crossposted-To: comp.periphs.scsi,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
Subject: Re: NCR PCI SCSI controllers
Date: 19 Sep 1994 23:40:19 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
John Dowdal <[email-masked]> wrote:
>I would love to get rid of my future domain 1680 card since I now have
>a more capable bus.  I have read various horror stories, but not much
>substance about NCR based scsi controllers.
>
>First, since my motherboard has no socket for a NCR chip, 

Of course not - the NCR53c8xx series only come in surface mount 
packages.

>I need a whole
>card including BIOS (so scsi disk will work with DOS).  

Not necessarily.  Many PCI systems include the NCR SDMS BIOS code
in the system BIOS, although they don't include the chip.  It would
be worthwhile doing a 

    strings /dev/mem | grep -i ncr

to see what your memory looks like.

>Who makes such beasts?  

If you need one with a BIOS chip, Nextor's model 93 is the only one I'm 
aware of, unless you want to go with an 825 based board (FAST+WIDE,
requires two minor patches to make it work under Linux).

If not, ASUS, Intel, Portland, and many others make non-BIOS
equipped boards.

>Second, the ASUS card is $100.  That is cheaper than many cheapo ISA
>cards.  

Actually, you can find non-BIOS versions of the boards for about
$70.  Given the fact that many BIOS vendors (ie, Intel) who lacked
NCR SDMS support for their boards have upgraded their newer ROM
images to included it, this _might_ be the way to go (some of 
the ROM vendors can't seem to get their act together,
and alternate between working and broken releases).  Also, any 
problems caused by flakey protected mode PCI BIOSes should be 
fixed if you upgrade.

The Nextor boards tend to run about $140ish.

>Does this mean it is programmed IO?  

Nope,  they're busmastering.  Architecturally, they're similar
to the Adaptec AIC-7770/7870 chips used on the 2xxx series, except they 
execute more complicated instructions from main memory rather than 
simpler ones from on-chip RAM, context switch in software rather than 
hardware, and have other minor differences.

>As of now, adaptec isn't an option for me because of their nondisclosure
>crap.  

Note that Adaptec doesn't have an NDA requirement on the hardware
docs as is generally believed, although there is one on the 
downloadable firmware's interface.

However, some of their tech support staff will lie to you about that fact and 
refuse to forward your calls to some one who knows what's going on. 

IMHO, that's still plenty of reason to avoid Adaptec. 

>Buslogic is an option, but they are expensive, and I want to see
>if they are worth three times the NCR price.  

The Linux Buslogic drivers are a bit more mature.  If you want top
performance from _multiple_ devices accessed at the same time
under Linux, right now instead of whenever I get arround to it (I need to
finish debugging the new save/restore pointers code so the right 
values get restored after a SCSI context switch) you'll be happier with 
the Buslogic boards.

People've had a lot of problems with the NCR boards, the
vast majority of which break down into general PCI configuration/bug
things.  I've seen the same sorts of reports in large numbers with
the Buslogic boards as well - you'll have it if you have broken 
PCI devices or a broken mainboard no matter what you use.

-- 
Since our leaders won't respect The Constitution, the highest law of our 
country, you can't expect them to obey lesser laws of any country. 
Boycott the United States until this changes.

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Andrew Robert Ellsworth)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
Subject: Re: TSENG W32 Server
Date: 21 Sep 1994 14:17:32 -0500

In article <[email-masked]>,  <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
>Does anyone know anything about the TSENG W32 server.  I just got the Fall 
>release of linux and was told that the X11R6 had incorporated it.  I can't seem 
>to find it.  Xwin just uses the default TSENG 4000 configuration.
>

It's coming out (eventually) but it's still in beta testing.  The only way you
 can get it (legitimately) right now is to become a dedicated beta tester.  You 
can get full info on W32 beta testing from [email-masked], if they're still
accepting beta testers (I know they have a few already).

Andy Ellsworth
[email-masked]

(INSERT CREATIVE FOOTER HERE)

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (George Braybrook)
Subject: MODULA-2 for Linux?
Date: 19 Sep 1994 21:42:50 GMT

I've installed Linux on my PC so I can do my Comp Sci homework in Modula-2.
One *teeensy* problem. Linux doesn't come with a modula-2 compiler. 
HEEELP ME! Is there one available (SRC or executable) anywhere?

--
*RanmaOutlandersDirtyPairBubbleGumCrisisAh!MyGoddessTenchiMuyoKyuuketsukiMiyu*
*Kahm-himesama - Hier to the (defunct) throne of the Santovasku empire,      *
*President of the John Walter Biles Fanfic Club, Card carrying member of the *
*Corps of Kawaii, Green-haired, Magic-weilding Girls in Hardsuits, disciple  *
*in the great art of Martial Fanfic Writing, artist in training, otaku, and  *
*probably more than a little crazy!                                          *
*                            Kahm@AnimeMUCK                                  *
*"What is manga anyway? Some sort of image compression format?" anonymous    *
*"You want Ranma stay like this, pervert-girl?" Shampoo                      *
*"Owie! Owie! I smush'd my dose!" Kahm                                       *
*I am NOT George. Thats my father. I just use this address.                  *
*RanmaOutlandersDirtyPairBubbleGumCrisisAh!MyGoddessTenchiMuyoKyuuketsukiMiyu*

------------------------------

** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **

The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:

    Internet: [email-masked]

You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.misc) via:

    Internet: [email-masked]

Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
    nic.funet.fi				pub/OS/Linux
    tsx-11.mit.edu				pub/linux
    sunsite.unc.edu				pub/Linux

End of Linux-Misc Digest
******************************