Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #806
From: Digestifier <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 94 11:13:10 EDT

Linux-Misc Digest #806, Volume #2                Fri, 23 Sep 94 11:13:10 EDT

Contents:
  Re: Don't use Linux or it's to academic! (Ian McCloghrie)
  Re: Don't use Linux or it's to academic! (Svein Erik Brostigen)
  Re: OpenStep on GNU or Linux? (Gregor Hoffleit)
  *** PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE POSTING *** (misc-2.07) (Ian Jackson)
  Reading from parallel port?? (Hendrik G. Seliger)
  Re: ** autoconf.h? ** (Christopher Michael Joslyn)
  Where to find AHA-1740 or U24F SCSI controller cheap. (Mark Buser)
  Re: Linux v1.0 SMAIL problem (root)
  Re: Damn X-aware xterms!!! (Sean Gilley)
  Re: Don't use Linux or it's to academic! (Maxim Spivak)
  Re: ** autoconf.h? ** (Michael_Nelson)
  Term - Periodic traffic generation (Chris Herringshaw)
  Re: Don't use Linux or it's to academic! (Richard L. Goerwitz)
  Re: Don't use Linux or it's to academic! (Robert Gasch)
  Re: Royal Computers - How are hey in general and with Linux? (STOLFA ROLAND JOSE)
  Re: Don't use Linux; it's too academic! (Alexander Bottema)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Ian McCloghrie)
Subject: Re: Don't use Linux or it's to academic!
Date: 22 Sep 1994 09:30:13 -0700

[email-masked] (Joshua R. Poulson) writes:

>>8. Support for modern graphics accelerators like Mach64, Stealth64 etc, 
>>   is not scheduled until maybe next year.

>I'm enjoying my S3 quite nicely, thanks. Again, vendor support is an
>issue because they want to sell or license their technology instead of
>telling people what you need to use it.

Also, these are supposed to be in XF86 3.1, I believe.  Last I heard,
that should be out any day now.

--
____
\bi/  Ian McCloghrie      | FLUG:  FurryMUCK Linux User's Group
 \/   email: [email-masked] | Card Carrying Member, UCSD Secret Islandia Club
GCS (!)d-(--) p c++ l++(+++) u+ e- m+ s+/+ n+(-) h- f+ !g w+ t+ r y*

The above represents my personal opinions and not necessarily those
of my employer, Qualcomm Inc.

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Svein Erik Brostigen)
Subject: Re: Don't use Linux or it's to academic!
Date: 23 Sep 1994 12:08:04 +0200
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Well, thanx a lot for all your comments on my previous posting, as
usual, some says I am insane, some says I have a few points of truth.

However, I'm not going into the discussion about which OS is the better
one or which WP is the best. I merely states that there are quite a few 
reasons *at the moment* for *not* putting Linux in a commercial
environment. So far none of your postings have made me change my mind.

When we are talking about customers and their *weird* environment, with
LAN's based on NetWare and TokenRing and there's an AS/400 in that ring
and they use their PC's to connect to the AS/400, Linux falls through.

I have used UNIX since 1987 and have been working 4 years with the
Norwegian distributor of a UNIX product called Q-office (87-91). I still
use Linux today for a lot of different tasks.

The only time my MS-DOS/Windows combination needs a reboot, is every
time I use Mosaic for Windows and it cannot open a connection. All the
other programs we run, and our customers run, are running flawlessly. 
They boot up in the morning and shut down in the afternoon.

The moment, we as an system integrator and network builder, can order
the different packages and install them without 'any' problems on
the different PC's, Linux might be interesting, but today, no!

It's also interesting that some people say: 'You can just transfer and
compile the different drivers and so on yourself'. In a business 
situation, we don't want to do that. We need packages that are tested 
and at least as stable as what you find in the MS-DOS world. Personally,
I run 1.1.51 and the latest ALPHA/BETA versions of the stuff around.
I also have a Mach64 card which runs X soothly, though unaccelerated.

When it comes to nationalization, what about man-pages in the local
language? This is something that needs to be done.

At last, some of yoy says 'Why not do something yourself?' There is so
much that should be done, but I can't manage, neither can my company
spare the time and money at the moment. But, if there are people in
Norway or the rest of Scandinavia whom might be interested in making
Linux more commerciable (>-|), maybe we could do something together.
If so, please mail me!

Happy computing everyone!

Svein Erik

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Gregor Hoffleit)
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: OpenStep on GNU or Linux?
Date: 22 Sep 1994 16:24:47 GMT

Don Hurter ([email-masked]) wrote:
:   Linux appeals to Intel owners who probably inherited their machines with
: Windows installed, yet want to learn the inner secrets of Unix without a
: huge investment. The important feature of the Linux community is their
: sense of innitiative and openness towards developing public tools and
: utilities. These are the kinds of people that NeXT unfortunately let go
: when they stopped supporting academia. They are also the kind of people
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Funny. If I should try to be honest, NeXT's support for academia was 
never better than today here in Germany. For 690,- DM you get a full 
NEXTSTEP user+developer for any supported hardware, leaving the actual 
hardware discounts to the manufacturer (and you know what that means e.g. 
for HP).

When they sold us their own black hardware, there was never more than 10% 
higher edu discount! That were the bad times for us!

Ok, if we speak of actually 'supporting' academia in Germany, well, I've 
never ever noticed that anytime.

        Gregor

--
| Gregor Hoffleit     admin MATHInet / contact HeidelNeXT |
| MAIL: Mathematisches Institut   PHONE: (49)6221 56-5771 |
|       INF 288, 69120 Heidelberg / Germany  FAX: 56-3812 |
| EMAIL: [email-masked] (NeXTmail)        |

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Ian Jackson)
Subject: *** PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE POSTING *** (misc-2.07)
Date: 23 Sep 1994 04:03:28 -0600

Please do not post questions to comp.os.linux.misc - read on for details of
which groups you should read and post to.

Please do not crosspost anything between different groups of the comp.os.linux
hierarchy.  See Matt Welsh's introduction to the hierarchy, posted weekly.

If you have a question about Linux you should get and read the Linux Frequently
Asked Questions with Answers list from sunsite.unc.edu, in /pub/Linux/docs, or
from another Linux FTP site.  It is also posted periodically to c.o.l.announce.

In particular, read the question `You still haven't answered my question!'
The FAQ will refer you to the Linux HOWTOs (more detailed descriptions of
particular topics) found in the HOWTO directory in the same place.

Then you should consider posting to comp.os.linux.help - not
comp.os.linux.misc.

Note that X Windows related questions should go to comp.windows.x.i386unix, and
that non-Linux-specific Unix questions should go to comp.unix.questions.
Please read the FAQs for these groups before posting - look on rtfm.mit.edu in
/pub/usenet/news.answers/Intel-Unix-X-faq and .../unix-faq.

Only if you have a posting that is not more appropriate for one of the other
Linux groups - ie it is not a question, not about the future development of
Linux, not an announcement or bug report and not about system administration -
should you post to comp.os.linux.misc.

Comments on this posting are welcomed - please email me !
--
Ian Jackson  <[email-masked]>  (urgent email: [email-masked])
2 Lexington Close, Cambridge, CB4 3LS, England;  phone: +44 223 64238

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Hendrik G. Seliger)
Subject: Reading from parallel port??
Date: 21 Sep 1994 21:18:04 GMT
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Hi everybody!

I'm trying to talk to my PostScript printer, which is connectec to a
parallel port. Sending data is no problem, but I'd like also to recieve
the 'answers' from teh printer, to get infos etc. without having to
print everyting on dozens of sheets of paper. But it seems to be not
possible to easily *read* data from a /dev/lp?. As I can see it, the
kernel does not have any functions to read from these port anyway.

So my question: is there any way of capturing the data the printer sends
to the parallel port? Thanks for any ideas!

        Cheers,
                Hank

--
======================================================================
         Hendrik G. Seliger                  Universitaet Essen
     [email-masked]                Schuetzenbahn 70
      Tel.: +49-201-183-2898                45117 Essen, Germany
======================================================================
             "Handling interrupts is simple." (G. Pajari)
             "Interrupts are an unpleasant fact of life." (A. Tanenbaum)

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Christopher Michael Joslyn)
Subject: Re: ** autoconf.h? **
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 22:01:39 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
Michael_Nelson <[email-masked]> wrote:
>Recently, when attempting to build some applications (one was yamm), I've
>encountered a problem where the application will #include 
>
>       "/usr/src/linux/include/config.h"
>
>config.h isn't a problem, because it's there, and it gets #included without
>problem.  But config.h has a line in it that #includes "<linux/autoconf.h>",
>and there is no autoconf.h anywhere on my system.
>
>So far I've been able to get around the problem by commenting the #include
>of that file out of config.h, and the applications seem to build without
>problem... but it makes me uncomfortable when I have to hack system files
>like this... 
>
>Is this #include of autoconf.h an error in config.h, or should I really have
>an autoconf.h?

/usr/src/linux/include/linux/autoconf.h is created after you do a make
config in the /usr/src/linux directory.  The kernel uses it, as well as
some other applications, to know how the kernel is configured.  There are
two ways it can be removed, one is to explicitly remove it and the other
is to do a make mrproper in the /usr/src/linux directory [can we get this
changed anyone?].  You will need to do a make config again to recreated it.

 - Chris

-- 
----  Purgamentum Init, Exit Purgamentum  ------------------------------------
Christopher M. Joslyn  | Visual Numerics, Inc.   |   "A la fin de l'envoi,
+1 (303) 581-3269      | 6230 Lookout Road       |      je touche!"
[email-masked] | Boulder, CO 80301       |  My opinions are mine!

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Mark Buser)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
Subject: Where to find AHA-1740 or U24F SCSI controller cheap.
Date: 22 Sep 94 19:18:27 GMT

I'm looking for a source for either the adaptec 174x or ultrastor 24F
EISA SCSI controllers.  Since these are both out of production it seems
to be a good time to pick one up.   I've read that the 34F is now available
for $89 from CSC.   Unfortunately they don't carry any EISA controllers.
I currently have a VLB video card and IDE controller so I'd like to take
advantage of those empty EISA slots I have :).  Any tips to who might
still have some of these in stock.   I'll consider used, but prefer new.
I've checked the Computer Shopper, but its discount days are long gone.

Thanks in advance,

Mark  ([email-masked])

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (root)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.admin
Subject: Re: Linux v1.0 SMAIL problem
Date: 23 Sep 1994 10:18:24 GMT

 Hmmmmm, actually, I got this error message whilst setting up SMAIL, problem
was it was trying to use uucp type stuff when I only wanted it to use smtp,
and was trying to find the uumaps for my site. I used the example files for
workstations (./samples/bigsite/workstns I think), and managed to get them
hacked around to work, and they never use uucp...

-Neil
Email: [email-masked] (i.e. don't reply to where this came from...)

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Sean Gilley)
Subject: Re: Damn X-aware xterms!!!
Reply-To: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 12:27:10 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
DAVID L. JOHNSON <[email-masked]> wrote:
>Huh? Are you sure it's not still in the buffer?  Why do you click on the other
>term  -- and with which button?  It may not still be highlighted, if say you 
>type in an xterm, but you can still paste.  At least I can.

        Is it in the buffer?  Can't say yes or no for sure, but what I
        *am* sure about is that after I click on the other window, I
        can no longer paste my selection.

        So for you latecomers, let me again describe the problem:

          Two xterm windows up.  Select text in the first window.  Click
          on the second and try to paste.  Nothing happens.  I'm not
          in an editor, just have a shell (bash) in each window.  I'm using
          olvwm as my window manager.

        Another person thought it was relelated to my window manager.
        I don't think so.  I use olvwm on my Sun at work as well as at
        home, and I'm using the same config files on both machines.
        (Or very close to the same.  I don't know of any differences,
        but I'm not willing to swear on it.)

        Oh -- I use the oeft button to drag the highlighting for selection,
        and use my middle button to paste.  Note that cut and paste *does*
        work if I don't click on the second window first.

Sean.

---
Sean L. Gilley                           The Information Super Highway is
[email-masked]                    really just a rough gravel road with
614 860 9053 (h), 614 860 5743 (w)       wonderful roadsigns.

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Maxim Spivak)
Subject: Re: Don't use Linux or it's to academic!
Date: 22 Sep 1994 16:51:31 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
Svein Erik Brostigen <[email-masked]> wrote:
>When it comes to TokenRing and MCA based machines, well IBM is the
>biggest player in the computer world no matter what you people of the
>.edu thinks!

Actually, to be fair, Microsoft is the biggest player in the computer 
world. IBM is really a has-been and may be will-be but definitely 
not-here. Of course this is in the US, not Norway.

>What amazes me, is that there are so few from the commercial world in
>this fora, only from the academic world. Maybe I should take that as
>a sign telling me that this is of purely academic interest at the
>moment.

Yes, you're may be right, but we never said we want to force Linux on MS 
Windows users for whom double-clicking is an art.

Actually, if you do read these newsgroups, you'd see many .com and .org, 
once in a while a .mil and a .gov.

>Now gentlemen, it's up to YOU!

What exactly is up to us?

Max

-- 
**************************************************************************
Maxim Spivak                            |  #include <GoBears.h>
University of California, Berkeley      |  #include <StdDisclaimer.h>
[email-masked]          |  #include ".signature"

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Michael_Nelson)
Subject: Re: ** autoconf.h? **
Date: 22 Sep 1994 05:51:45 GMT
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Christopher Michael Joslyn ([email-masked]) wrote:

-> /usr/src/linux/include/linux/autoconf.h is created after you do a make
-> config in the /usr/src/linux directory.  The kernel uses it, as well as
-> some other applications, to know how the kernel is configured.  There are
-> two ways it can be removed, one is to explicitly remove it and the other
-> is to do a make mrproper in the /usr/src/linux directory [can we get this
-> changed anyone?].  You will need to do a make config again to recreated it.

        Aha!  Thanks much!  I was in the habit of doing a make mrproper 
and a make clean after compiling and installing new kernels.  No WONDER 
autoconf.h didn't exist when config.h went looking for it!

        I have one now... thanks again!

--
Michael Nelson                          [email-masked]
San Francisco, CA                           FAX: 1-415-621-2608

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Chris Herringshaw)
Subject: Term - Periodic traffic generation
Date: 23 Sep 1994 12:57:07 GMT

Is there a way to make term generate traffic periodically?

The problem I have is the timeout on the dial-in modem is small,
so if I get in the shower or go to lunch right before a tupload ends,
the modem times out and closes connection, thus I have to restart
everything more often then I'd like.

If there is not a way to do this, is there a tping or other sort
of utility avaiable, that I can throw in a script to periodically
ping my router on the net end?  I think this would solve the
problem, too.

Thanks!

-- 
====================================================================
Christopher Herringshaw     Networking and Special Projects Division
Medical Center Information Technology (MCIT)   [email-masked]
University of Michigan Medical Center, B1911 CFOB
1414 Catherine Street, Ann Arbor, MI 48109-0704       (313) 747-2778
====================================================================

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Richard L. Goerwitz)
Subject: Re: Don't use Linux or it's to academic!
Reply-To: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 14:21:47 GMT

[email-masked] (Jon Gefaell) writes:
>>
>>Now gentlemen, it's up to YOU!
>
>       Your tone is rude and arrogant, your assumptions flawed,
>your experience obviously limited. When I need a hammer, I use one.
>When I need a toaster, likewise.

What sort of tool would recommend to end this thread?

-- 

   -Richard L. Goerwitz              [email-masked]
   [email-masked]          rutgers!oddjob!ellis!goer

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Robert Gasch)
Subject: Re: Don't use Linux or it's to academic!
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 12:09:24 GMT

Joshua R. Poulson ([email-masked]) wrote:
: In a environment like that you have the money to buy a machine with
: more I/O bandwidth than a PC to do the job. PC's are laughable when
: it comes to serious I/O.

Im wondering about this. In general you're certainly right. But what
about the top of the line Intel Machines (as sold by Compaq and others)? 
Given that they carry price tags of $10000 and more, how does their 
I/O capability compare to workstations? If these do not give decent 
I/O, where does all the money go (other than into compaq's pockets)?

--> Robert

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc
From: [email-masked] (STOLFA ROLAND JOSE)
Subject: Re: Royal Computers - How are hey in general and with Linux?
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 13:52:18 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
Brian Kramer <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
>Has anyone had experience with Royal Electronics in Industry, CA?

Just to add my $0.02 to this, I have a Royal box at home.  When I
received it, the system had obviously not been burnt in.  The monitor
(still packed with the original tape) had several LARGE color distortions
and was wholely unacceptable.  Furthermore, the 3.5" floppy drive controller
cable *wasn't even plugged in*!

After calling them several times (over a period of 3 weeks while they kept
asking me to find someone locally to verify what my own eyes were showing
in regards to the monitor), I finally talked them into replacing the monitor.

After this rather major incident, I was not impressed.  Since then, I have
had the power switch on the front of the case fail on several ocasions (I'm
about to go to Ace and just get a cluggy switch to replace the acursed thing).
Once I got it turned on, I've vowed to just use my power strip to turn it on
and off.  :-/

>How are their systems, service, etc?  

All in all, I was *NOT* impressed.

Roland Stolfa                           Internet:       [email-masked]
Computer Science Department
219 Math Sciences Building              Disclaimer:     You've lost your mind
Oklahoma State University                               if you think anyone
Stillwater OK 74078-0599                                speaks for this place!

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Alexander Bottema)
Subject: Re: Don't use Linux; it's too academic!
Date: 23 Sep 1994 07:46:00 GMT

> If someone wants to do word processing, then Linux clearly isn't the first
> choice.  TeX is an 80s-style typesetter.  Like looking at WordPerfect in
           ------------------------------

Well, there's is LaTeX2e and LaTeX2e is clearly NOT an 80s-style
typesetter. It's a 90s-style typegrapher.

--
 Alexander Jean-Claude Bottema, Email: [email-masked]
 University of Uppsala, Computing Science Department.
 #include <stddisclaim.h> LINUX,GCC,Eiffel,Haskell,ML,CAML-light,Prolog
 http://www.csd.uu.se/~d91a1bo/ LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX

------------------------------

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End of Linux-Misc Digest
******************************