Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #838
From: Digestifier <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 94 16:13:23 EDT

Linux-Misc Digest #838, Volume #2                Wed, 28 Sep 94 16:13:23 EDT

Contents:
  Re: P5-90 MHz beats SGI R4000-100MHz. ("Jack Y. Duan")
  Re: Emacs & latex for thesis (Vince Giambalvo)
  Re: Where is Mosaic for Term? (Patrick Reijnen)
  Re: QNX, Linux, or 386BSD? (Michael S. Scheidell)
  Re: Emacs & latex for thesis (Michael Rogero Brown (Sys Admin))
  Re: New Linux Distribution (Erik Troan)
  Re: QNX, Linux, or 386BSD? (Tom Barringer)
  RAMDISK problem with new Slackware rootdisk (Torben N. Rasmussen)
  Re: Don't use Linux or it's to academic! (Alexander Bottema)
  Problem building 1.1.50 w/ math emulation (Marc Ewing)
  Re: Assembler for LINUX??? (Alexander Bottema)
  Hmmm (Chris)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jack Y. Duan" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: P5-90 MHz beats SGI R4000-100MHz.
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 13:07:56 -0500

Indies are great machines when doing graphics...I think somebody
has posted a Very LOW end indy vhint to this thread...the
following the the Indy R4000 we have here at Indiana University
for public use:

1 100 MHZ IP22 Processor 
FPU: MIPS R4010 Floating Point Chip Revision: 0.0
CPU: MIPS R4000 Processor Chip Revision: 3.0 
On-board serial ports: 2
On-board bi-directional parallel port 
Data cache size: 8 Kbytes
Instruction cache size: 8 Kbytes Secondary 
unified instruction/data cache size: 1 Mbyte 
Main memory size: 64 Mbytes 
Iris Audio Processor: version A2
revision 4.1.0 
Integral Ethernet: ec0, version 1 CDROM: unit 4 on SCSI
controller 0 Disk drive: unit 1 on SCSI controller 0 Integral SCSI
controller 0: Version WD33C93B, revision D 
Graphics board: Indy 24-bit 
Vino video: unit 0, revision 0, Indycam 

notice the 2nd cache is 1mb!!! and 24-bit color is very good and by
God I can tell it is faster than a P5-90...just look at how fast it
can animate a 3-d object full-screen.  However, it cost a lot
my than a P5...

and the following is a Indy2...

1 150 MHZ IP22 Processor 
FPU: MIPS R4010 Floating Point Chip Revision: 0.0
CPU: MIPS R4400 Processor Chip Revision: 5.0 
On-board serial ports: 2
On-board bi-directional parallel port 
Data cache size: 16 Kbytes
Instruction cache size: 16 Kbytes 
Secondary unified instruction/data cache size: 1 Mbyte 
Main memory size: 32 Mbytes 
EISA bus: adapter 0 
Iris Audio Processor: version A2 revision 1.1.0 
Integral Ethernet: ec0, version 1
Integral SCSI controller 1: Version WD33C93B, revision D 
Tape drive: unit 2 on SCSI controller 0: 
DAT Disk drive: unit 1 on SCSI 
controller 0
Integral SCSI controller 0: Version WD33C93B, revision D 
Graphics board:
GR3-XZ Indigo2 video: unit 0, revision 3

It is even faster, much faster than the Indy R4000 (faster XZ
Graphics board and R4400 150Mhz CPU, but it only has
32mb RAM)...it cost about $20,000 and will be used as a 
video production workstation, ie, hook up with a high-end VCR
and make movies...etc.

I like to use Indies, but if I were going to buy a computer
for personal use, I'd go for a P-5...after all, I am not
a rich professor :-)

Jack

-- 
****************
Jack Duan   
SUN station address:
  [email-masked]
InterNet address:

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Vince Giambalvo)
Subject: Re: Emacs & latex for thesis
Date: 28 Sep 1994 13:42:49 GMT

   >From: [email-masked] (Darin Johnson)
   >Subject: Re: Emacs & latex for thesis
   >Date: 27 Sep 1994 19:26:49 GMT

   >>:: The real question is: Why would you want to write a
   >>THESIS on emacs and latex?

   >> LaTeX also does a far better job of typsetting (especially math stuff)
   >> than any of the WYSIWYG packages that I've tried.  Most of the WYSIWYG
   >> stuff I've tried doesn't even support ligatures.
It does look pretty, but a much better reason:
   >LaTeX does automatic reference citation and links in with
   >your bibliography database.  Very few other packages do that
   >(I think scribe does).  This is VITAL for a thesis!
   >It also automatically keeps numbers straight if you move stuff
   >around, so that you can refer to a certain section without
   >knowing what page it is on, and so forth (a few others do this,
   >but it's still relatively rare).
This is really vital in our work. All our (students) theses are now
being done in LaTeX, and most of the scientific writing.  But it is
the capabilities, not the fact that I use it that makes it worth
using. (I wrote my these B.T. and used an organic word processor. It
is much easier, although it eliminates a lot of revision
possibilities).
If your word processor can do the following, it is at least excellent
if you can use it.

1. Generate all the fonts and symbols that you need.
2. Keep track of references and citations, so that adding a
bibliography item "Arand" doesn't require manually updating almost
every citation.
3. Keep track of section numbers, theorem numbers, etc, so that
changes can be done automatically.
4. Do all the formating that you want/need. (For theses, most graduate
schools have a specific form that MUST be followed.)
5. Produce files that can be sent to others -- best via e-mail or ftp.
(Then they have to pay for the paper.) and allow distribution. The AMS
has set up a preprint distribution system, and there are other systems
as well, and they require some sort of standard that satisfies at
least 1 above.

Note: The requirements of 1 above vary greatly from field to field. I
would suspect that English requires less symbols that Mathematics, for
example. 

Enough, not really appropriate to this newsgroup anyway.

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Patrick Reijnen)
Subject: Re: Where is Mosaic for Term?
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 1994 11:43:57 GMT

In <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Colin Smith) writes:

>Travis L. Cobbs ([email-masked]) wrote:

>: I imagine this has been asked before, but the faq for this group isn't on my
>: server at the moment, and I just started reading it.  I've seen various references
>: to people using Mosaic for Term, but I haven't seen anyone say where it can be
>: found.  Where is it locate?  (Preferably via FTP.)

>: --Travis Cobbs
>:   [email-masked]

>Travis,

>Try sunsite.unc.edu or one of the mirrors sites.  I believe there is a 
>new version, 2.4.2, on that site.

sunsite.unc.edu:/pub/Linux/system/Network/info-systems

>Regards,
>Colin Smith......Atlanta, GA                                    
>[email-masked]

>-- 
>Colin Smith......Atlanta, GA                                    
>[email-masked]

PAtrick REijnen

--
************************* Patrick Reijnen *************************
* Department of Computer Science, Catholic University of Nijmegen * 
* Email:  patrickr@{sci,cs}.kun.nl                                *
* WWW:    http://{atlas,zeus}.cs.kun.nl:4080/homepage.html        *

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Michael S. Scheidell)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.qnx,comp.os.386bsd.misc
Subject: Re: QNX, Linux, or 386BSD?
Date: 28 Sep 1994 14:52:35 GMT

Po-Han Lin ([email-masked]) wrote:
: If one has a pc compatible with a 486, which OS is the best unix
: operating system?  QNX, Linux, or 386BSD?  

WARNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
FLAME BAIT.   THIS IS CROSS POSTED TO comp.os.linux.misc,comp,os.qnx,
and comp.os.386bsd.misc

IF YOU WISH TO REPLY.... ERASE THE GROUPS YOU DON'T WANT TO POST TO!

--
Michael S. Scheidell                    Florida Datamation, Inc. 
[email-masked]                       (407) 241-2966
Distributers of QNX Real Time OS Products (finger for more info)

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Michael Rogero Brown (Sys Admin))
Subject: Re: Emacs & latex for thesis
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 21:30:21 GMT

Jin S. Choi ([email-masked]) wrote:
: In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Jeffrey  Nipp) writes:

:    The real question is: Why would you want to write a THESIS on emax and 
:    latex?  There are many comercial products which are much better suited to 
:    that particular task which will run native under OS/2 or in a dos or 
:    windows box under OS/2 and give much better performance than the unix 
:    programs you mention.

: I apologize for discussing something unrelated to Linux, but I thought
: I'd make a comment here. You make a point about not using untested
: software in mission critical applications, and how commercial
: applications are so much better suited to writing theses.

: I disagree. In the longer document forms, TeX and LaTeX are among the
: more popular systems for technical writing (including theses). LaTeX
: is perhaps a bit harder to learn than a commercial WYSIWYG word
: processor, but its flexibility is very great. If your needs aren't
: that great, you might be able to get most of what you want out of a
: commercial word processor, but the requirements of long documents are
: often different than those of smaller papers. It would suck to get
: most of the way through and then realize that you can't do something.

: I agree that you don't want to use untried applications in mission
: critical tasks. However, virtually *all* theses at MIT are written in
: LaTeX. That must count for something.

An I'm sure many of the papers/books are also written in Tex/LaTeX.  This is
true of many, many CS departments aroung the country.  This is how/why I 
happened to learn it and why many others have as well.

--
==========All Opinions Expressed are MINE, not IBM's==============
Michael Rogero Brown       (*IX System Administrator)  
IBM (uK Development)         TEL/TIE   (407) 443-6400   
Boca Raton, FL               Internet:  [email-masked]

If you think I speak for IBM, then I've got some swamp land^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H
real estate to sell you.

GCM/CS   d-- h-- s g+ p1 au a w+ v C++$ UA++++$ US+ UH+ P+>++ L>++ 3 N(+++) K 
    W--- M-- V>-- -p+ Y+ t 5++ j(++) r !G v+ b+++ !D b--- e+++ u+ h+ f !r n x?

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Erik Troan)
Subject: Re: New Linux Distribution
Date: 28 Sep 1994 13:49:24 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
Juana Moreno <[email-masked]> wrote:
>the book "Unix in a Nutshell" but much shorter. A possible title could be
>"Unix (Linux) in a Pinhead: an introduccion to Unix for Dos users" (grin).

How about "Linux FOR a Pinhead"? This is a truly horrible idea. Read below
for reasons why. I hope you didn't mean this as a joke btw. Maybe I'm
just being humoured impaired this morning.

>       - Defaults to SINGLE USER mode. No need to show the complications
>               of multiuser accounts to newbies who will likely use it
>               personally.

Sure. Why not give them a crippled Linux system to replace their crippled
DOS system. Multiuser account have purposes - like preventing newbies
from doing "rm /dev/*". If they can't understand multiple account, they
shouldn't be using Linux (or Unix, VMS, WinNT, Novell, ...).

>       - Only one shell: bash, with lots of aliases that match as closely
>               as possible the COMMAND.COM commands and the utilities in
>               the DOS directory. Maybe it won't be very difficult to 
>               include a .BAT->.sh translator.

Good idea - that way they won't have to learn Unix. Of course, without
tcsh, many scripts they get off the net won't work. But they won't know
how to install them anyway, right? Command.com is terrible - even DOS
users who have never touched Unix hate it (I always did). The shell is
one of Unix's wins - don't hide it.

>       - Only enough utilities to match the functionality of the DOS
>               standard utilities plus the major unix winners like 
>               grep, awk and sed. (But not vi or emacs!!!).

But people don't like the functionality of DOS. They want more.

>       - NO NETWORKING, except for maybe a terminal program (minicom) and
>               a mostly configured SLIP (client side only). In that case,
>               maybe Mosaic should be also included.

But Networking is small and simple to not install. If you leave it out,
then we won't be a real Unix. I can't wait to read the reviews of Unix
tcp/ip unbundled.

>       -NO SCSI. Most home dos-win users don't even know what SCSI is.

My brother has SCSI and he runs Windows. I know tons of dedicated OS/2 
users with SCSI. With PCI, SCSI is becoming more and more popular.

>       -XFree 3.1 configured to use the VGA16 server (mono or color) with
>               a generic (low resolution) Xconfig.

Good idea. We'll replace their optimized Windows driver with a slow 640x480
X server. That'll make a good impression.

>       - Only one window manager: FVWM

Hope they like it.

>       - No developing tools.

This is Unix you said? I don't believe you.

>       - The binaries should fit (gzipped) in 10 1.44 floppies.

Have you seen MCC+TinyX? It has Networking, etc. in less disks then that.

>The idea is that this will not be the final Linux distribution that 
>the users will have, but only a "transitional" distribution that lets
>them get the feeling of the power of Linux in an environment as much familiar
>to them as possible. Therefore, the distribution will be compatible with
>Slackware "packages", so that an upgrade (when the fear is left behind) will
>be very smooth.

Why would people want to use it? What extra functionality will they have
when they can't:

1) Use virtual consoles
2) Network
3) Compile
4) Do cool pipes
5) Make X perform decently

This would be a highly crippled Linux distribution. I can't imagine how
this would convince a DOS/Windows user that Linux was a good thing. 
They'd take one look at it and laugh all the way home. You have to give
people a reason to give up there nice safe Microsoft-approved world. You've
removed all of the best reasons.

Erik
-- 
============================================================================
"Like a fool I let dreams become great expectations" - Chess

        Erik Troan = [email-masked] = http://sunsite.unc.edu/ewt

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Tom Barringer)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.qnx,comp.os.386bsd.misc
Subject: Re: QNX, Linux, or 386BSD?
Date: 28 Sep 1994 15:31:00 GMT
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Po-Han Lin ([email-masked]) wrote:
 : If one has a pc compatible with a 486, which OS is the best unix
 : operating system?  QNX, Linux, or 386BSD?  

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (WAN) replies:
 > On this forum, comp.os.qnx, QNX!

On this newsgroup, comp.os.linux.*, Linux!

;)

--
Tom Barringer      : Progress Software Corp.   : The Tall Conspiracy is looking
QA Development     : 14 Oak Park               : for members.  Please see the
[email-masked]  : Bedford, MA  01730        : recruitment flyer posted on
GEnie: T.Barringer : #include <std/disclaim.i> : the top of your refrigerator.
HREF="ftp://ftp.progress.com/tomb/tomb.html"

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Torben N. Rasmussen)
Subject: RAMDISK problem with new Slackware rootdisk
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 1994 07:32:18 GMT

I have built a new kernel and put it on a 'bare' Slackware 2.0.1 root floppy as
described in the Slackware FAQ. But when I boot, I get the following message:

   RAMDISK: 1474560 bytes, starting at 0x1c4ab6
   floppy: disk absent or changed during operation
   floppy I/O error
   dev 021C, sector 2
   RAMDISK: I/O error while looking for super block!
   VFS: Insert root floppy and press ENTER

The root disk is not loaded into the ramdisk, but continues to run off the
floppy disk. Fortunately I am installing from SCSI tape, but I am not able
to write the tape index on a floppy.

The original boot floppy worked allright.

Does anyone have any ideas of what the above message means.

Torben N. Rasmussen

+--------------------------------------+--------------------------------------+
| Torben N. Rasmussen                  | email       [email-masked]           |
| Computer Resources International A/S | phone       +45 45 82 21 00 ext. 3139|
| Bregnerodvej 144                     | direct dial +45 45 82 22 66 + 3139   |
| DK-3460 Birkerod, Denmark            | fax         +45 45 82 01 22          |
+--------------------------------------+--------------------------------------+
-- 

Torben N. Rasmussen

+--------------------------------------+--------------------------------------+
| Torben N. Rasmussen                  | email       [email-masked]           |
| Computer Resources International A/S | phone       +45 45 82 21 00 ext. 3139|
| Bregnerodvej 144                     | direct dial +45 45 82 22 66 + 3139   |
| DK-3460 Birkerod, Denmark            | fax         +45 45 82 01 22          |
+--------------------------------------+--------------------------------------+

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Alexander Bottema)
Subject: Re: Don't use Linux or it's to academic!
Date: 28 Sep 1994 14:01:16 GMT

>> Windows durability is about 2 hours.. (The time between reboots.)
>> I guess MS-DOS is quite durable, but ohh so limited in its
>> capabilities.

Alex Ramos ([email-masked]) writes:
> In a development environment (Borland C++ 4.02), it's more like 15 minutes.

I've always wondered why security is a less important issue among the
industry and the masses? Is it acceptable that you actually have to
REBOOT your computer? Is it acceptable that the operating system can
potentionally crash due to an error in an application? People must be
smarter than that? Or aren't they? Are they simply paralyzed by the
shaded buttons and the fancy icons?

--
 Alexander Jean-Claude Bottema, Email: [email-masked]
 University of Uppsala, Computing Science Department.
 #include <stddisclaim.h> LINUX,GCC,Eiffel,Haskell,ML,CAML-light,Prolog
 http://www.csd.uu.se/~d91a1bo/ LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Marc Ewing)
Subject: Problem building 1.1.50 w/ math emulation
Date: 28 Sep 1994 00:01:16 -0400

In compiling 1.1.50 with FPU emulation turned on (somthing I don't
normally do) the build fails on drivers/FPU-emu/poly_atan.c:

gcc -D__KERNEL__ -I/usr/src2/kernel/linux-1.1.50/include -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -O2 -fomit-frame-pointer -pipe -m486 -DPARANOID  -fno-builtin  -c poly_atan.c
{standard input}: Assembler messages:
{standard input}:266: Error: Unimplemented segment type 54002 in parse_operand

I did the above with a `-S' in place of `-c' and found the offending line to
be:

                 jnc 0f;

Assuming that 0f was being treated as octal by the assembler, but is supposed
to be hex, I changed it to `jnc 0xf;' and it assembled fine.  I'm not sure if
what I did is actually correct.

If I compile without optimization (no -O2) it works fine - no `jnc 0f' is
generated.

Has anyone seen an error of this sort?  I'm using gcc 2.5.6 and gas 2.3.

Thanks,
Marc

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Alexander Bottema)
Subject: Re: Assembler for LINUX???
Date: 28 Sep 1994 14:08:52 GMT

Joan writes:
> Does anyone know if there is any assembler available for linux?  Something like

> Macro Assembler?  Thanks! 

gcc foo.S

Use preprocessing tools (e.g. #define in the C preprocessor) to obtain
"macros". Use "0b, 0f, 1b, 1f" etc. instead of local jumps within
#defines.

If you'd like you can check my Apple II+ emulator that I wrote for
Linux. A large part is written in AT&T assembler using preprocessing
techniques to obtain "macros".

Check: tsx-11.mit.edu/pub/linux/sources/usr.bin/apple2.tar.gz
  for further information.
--
 Alexander Jean-Claude Bottema, Email: [email-masked]
 University of Uppsala, Computing Science Department.
 #include <stddisclaim.h> LINUX,GCC,Eiffel,Haskell,ML,CAML-light,Prolog
 http://www.csd.uu.se/~d91a1bo/ LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Chris)
Crossposted-To: alt.fan.linus-torvalds
Subject: Hmmm
Date: 28 Sep 1994 13:36:32 GMT

Jeez - I hadn't realized that Linus had such a loyal following ;)

Chris

------------------------------

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