Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #852
From: Digestifier <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 94 19:13:19 EDT

Linux-Misc Digest #852, Volume #2                Fri, 30 Sep 94 19:13:19 EDT

Contents:
  Re: Hmmm (William S. Kaster)
  Nailed down to 386bsd or linux, now which one? (Po-Han Lin)
  Re: TMC-850 on IRQ 11 no workee... (Ed Carp)
  POVRAY-linux with pentium support (Matthew S. Crocker)
  Re: Maple V for Linux (Chris Adams)
  Printing in Linux (Aaron K. Michalove)
  Re: Hmmm (H. Peter Anvin)
  Re: X News-reader for LinuX (Richard Safran)
  Re: How to pronounce Linux?? (Inge Cubitt)
  Ungerman-Bass Ether Cards (Alan Hannan)
  Re: Linux CD free with PC Plus magazine (Hallvard Paulsen)
  Re: New Linux Distribution (Steven Pritchard)
  Re: Copyright and licensing - a plea to software authors (Marcus Daniels)
  Re: Maple V for Linux (Larry Pyeatt)
  Re: How to pronounce Linux?? (Richard L. Goerwitz)
  Re: Hmmm (Bruce Sherwood)
  Re: New Linux Distribution (Michael P. Lepore)
  Re: QNX, Linux, or 386BSD? (Peter da Silva)
  Re: IP Addresses For Standalone LAN (Alan Cox)
  Re: How Old Is Linus? (Lars Wirzenius)
  Re: New Linux Distribution (Joe George)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (William S. Kaster)
Crossposted-To: alt.fan.linus-torvalds
Subject: Re: Hmmm
Date: 29 Sep 1994 05:17:05 GMT
Reply-To: [email-masked]

God I love switching news readers :(

--

-wsk
-- 
=====
William S. Kaster        
email: [email-masked]   

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Po-Han Lin)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.386bsd.misc
Subject: Nailed down to 386bsd or linux, now which one?
Date: 28 Sep 1994 22:34:15 -0700

Ok, I didn't know QNX costs major money.  So I am considering
either 386bsd or linux.  One person said I should get linux because
386bsd is monolithic (controlled I guess), while linux is non-monolithic.
Now the question is, which os better?  Better as in...

1) least bugs, and stable IMPORTANT!
2) more software available that runs on it
3) faster
4) more compliance to POSIX (I think standards are good, or am I wrong)
5) more people using it.
6) more support for third-party hardware (VLB, EISA, modems, etc) IMPORTANT!
7) platform for programming.

I hope someone can seriously asnwer these questions.  Note that Im not
trying to start a flame.  I appropriately crossposted only to the
relevant newsgroups that discuss these two operating systems.  I
don't want to waste time downloading 50 or so megabytes and find out
that the other OS is better.  Has anyone actually used both systems?
-- 
۲����۲����۲����۲����۲����۲����۲����۲����۲����۲����۲����۲����۲�����
��������������������������������������������۲���������������������������������
��������������������������������������������۲���������������������������������
���۲����۲����۲����۲����۲����۲����۲����۲����۲����۲����۲����۲����۲��

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help,comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.questions
From: [email-masked] (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: TMC-850 on IRQ 11 no workee...
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 12:36:37 GMT

"... and the answer is..."

Although several people responded to my post, no one really had an answer 
I hadn't tried before. :(  In searching throught the SCSI-HOWTO, however, 
I *did* come across a note that proved to be the answer to the problem.

Around line 840 or so, there appears three lines of code like thus:

        DATA = ...
        CONTROL = .... |
                        (stuff...);

Swapping the order from DATA, CONTROL to CONTROL, DATA worked.

Thanks to all who emailed with suggestions!!
-- 
Ed Carp, N7EKG                          [email-masked], [email-masked]
Finger [email-masked] for PGP 2.5 public key          [email-masked]
If you want magic, let go of your armor.  Magic is so much stronger than
steel!        -- Richard Bach, "The Bridge Across Forever"

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Matthew S. Crocker)
Subject: POVRAY-linux with pentium support
Date: 30 Sep 1994 19:26:20 GMT

I was bored here today so I decided to build povray with -mpentium -O4
to see if it will work.  It won't.  You need to -O2 a couple of files
otherwise you get a seg.fault...

Here is how to do it..

get the povray-2.2l.src.tar.gz
edit Makefile to add -mpentium -O4 to the CFLAGS
make
rm objects.o
rm xwindows.o

re-compile object.c & xwindows.c with -O2  (using -O4 on these two
   files will break povray...)

type make again to build binaries...

I'm just now running a test on it to see if its any faster but it
should be the render.c is -O4  which is the most inportant :)

L8r,

If people want I can put a binarie tgz up on sunsite.  let me know..

-Matt/2

--
-Matthew S Crocker               "The mask, given time, comes
[email-masked]              to be the face itself."  -anonymous
*OS/2*OS/2*OS/2*OS/2*OS/2*OS/2*OS/2*OS/2*OS/2*OS/2*OS/2*OS/2*OS/2*OS/2*OS/2*
 *linux*linux*linux*linux*linux*linux*linux*linux*linux*linux*linux*linux*

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Chris Adams)
Subject: Re: Maple V for Linux
Date: 29 Sep 1994 22:25:07 -0400

In article <[email-masked]>,
Ray Hann <[email-masked]> wrote:
>Isn't windows for workgroups multi-user? I know NT is definitely multi-user.

Win4WG is just Windows 3.1 with networking built in - definitly NOT
multi-user.  As for NT, I don't know about NT Advanced Server, but the
normal NT is single user.  It is multi user in the sense that it has
file ownership and such, but only one person can be using it at one time
because you can only log in on the console, unless you use some third
party program (and you can do that in some ways under Windows 3.1, and
even under DOS).
-- 
Chris Adams - [email-masked]
            - formerly [email-masked]
Computer Science - Georgia Tech
"With friends like these, who needs halucinations?" - Buddy, 'Night Court'

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Aaron K. Michalove)
Subject: Printing in Linux
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 05:10:43 GMT

        For those too busy/lazy to find this out from other sources, the 
best way to get *YOUR* printer working under Linux or X-Windows' Andrew 
or GhoastView or whatever, is to ftp sunsite.unc.edu and go to soemthing 
like /pub/Linux/HOWTO and get Printing-HOWTO. It is in ascii and you can 
copy it to your DOS partition and print it from there...then follow the 
instrustions. now, suprise suprise for those who are used to being spoon 
feed what to do, you will have to find out some info on your printer. 
(e.g. an Epson Stylus 800 is not a "Stylus" or someversion of that, it's 
an ESC/P2.
        If you play enough you'll get it right (probably).
        Also, you can read the man page on lpr ($: man lpr)

                                                -Aaron

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: alt.fan.linus-torvalds
From: [email-masked] (H. Peter Anvin)
Subject: Re: Hmmm
Reply-To: [email-masked] (H. Peter Anvin)
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 17:31:26 GMT

Followup to:  <[email-masked]>
By author:    [email-masked] (Michael O'Reilly)
In newsgroup: alt.fan.linus-torvalds
>
> Mitchum DSouza ([email-masked]) wrote:
> 
> : Hey I'm a fan. Have been so since 0.10. Im sure everyone else joined
> : a bit more recently.
> 
> Not everyone. :) I read thru .10, and started running it at .11. Those
> were the days. None of these newfangled things like pageing, or
> networking, or login's etc.
> 
> The REAL thing. When free memory pages were found by searching
> linearly thru memory . ;) (Linus, you reading this? Remember when that
> was pointed out? :)
> 

I started following the Linux development closely around the time of
0.10, on alt.os.linux.  Unfortunately I had only a 286 back then, and
0.95 (which probably should have been called 0.20) came out right
before I got my new nifty 486, so I never got the pleasure of running
an 0.1x version.  :-(  Still, I remember those early kernels... when I
guess the Linux kernel had a half-life of at most a few days, and when
shared libraries had a *date*, and you had to have the exactly right
version or it wouldn't work... (so you ended up with 5 or 6 shared
library versions, and still 80% of your binaries were statically linked).

I remember the thrill of the first time I got an X cursor up on my
screen... I think it was then I realized Linux was never going to be
just a toy like Minix.

I was also considered rather loony when I set up one of the PC's in my
research lab to run Linux... we were going to use it as an X-terminal,
and it involved running a program called X11d since the version of X
floating around was made before the Linux kernel had Internet sockets.
The kernel was either 0.97 or 0.98; can't remember.  Sure it crashed
every once in a while, but basically it worked... and it worked well
enough that I got to buy a *dedicated* Linux machine about a year
later.

        /hpa
-- 
INTERNET: [email-masked]             --- Allah'u'abha ---
IBM MAIL: I0050052 at IBMMAIL     HAM RADIO:   N9ITP or SM4TKN
FIDONET:  1:115/511 or 1:115/512  STORMNET:    181:294/1 or 181:294/101
Id imperfectum manet dum confectum erit.

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Richard Safran)
Subject: Re: X News-reader for LinuX
Date: 30 Sep 1994 12:15:22 -0400

     Wrath Child wrote in article <[email-masked]> :
>
>I'm looking for an Xnews reader for LinuX.  If anyone has 
>any info about something like this...I would be a very 
>happy camper.
>
>Thanx,
>wrathchild
>

I'm using Tknews which came with the Ygg Summer 94 CD.  It works nicely.

-- 
?

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Inge Cubitt)
Subject: Re: How to pronounce Linux??
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 13:45:16 +0000

ACC Corp. ([email-masked]) wrote:

: english, a long i), who is a decent and humble human being, went along with
: the name on condition that it was not named after him, but after the first
: OS that inspired him to write Linux, namely MINIX.

: Given that Minix, at least in english, has a short i, that is how I
: pronounce Linux. BUT I always qualify any discussion on this subject with:

What is all this long and short business?  They seem to take the same length
of time to say whether it's i as in in or i as in line.  Which is which?

Inge

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Alan Hannan)
Subject: Ungerman-Bass Ether Cards
Date: 30 Sep 1994 16:06:38 GMT

I am interested in using an Ungerman Bass Ethernet card, model UB NIU PC/EOTP.
However, I do not seem to be able to locate information regarding linux and
this card.  My searches have yielded nothing. If anyone has used, or knows
about compatibility of this card, I would greatly appreciate it. It is possible
that the card emulates a 3com or something else more predominant, and I would
love to hear from you if you know anything about these Ungerman-Bass cards as
they relate to Linux.  Thanks!

--
+ [email-masked]   Network Operations Center (402)/472-0242, Fax (402)/472-0240  +
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + ++ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+============\\ "Whenever people agree with me I always feel I must be wrong." +
+/|/| * |\    \\____________________________             - Oscar Wilde         +
+|| | | |/ net  (A Global Internet Company)| + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Hallvard Paulsen)
Subject: Re: Linux CD free with PC Plus magazine
Date: 30 Sep 1994 11:55:36 GMT
Reply-To: [email-masked] (Hallvard Paulsen)

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Andy Pearce) writes:
|> Haven't seen this mentioned anywhere yet, so ...
|> 
|> I just received my Oct 94 issue of PC Plus magazine here in the
|> UK.  There is PC Plus super CD with, among other things, Slackware 
|> Linux 2.0, taped to the front.  Price 3.95 pounds sterling. 
|> My friend bought the last 2 copies in our local W H Smith, so 
|> the word is obviously out.
|> 
|> --ajp 

Yes it is. There is a lot of talk on the norwegian
linux news group about where to find the CD version
of this magazine. I guess I'm just lucky to
have managed to get a copy while they were still
awailable.

No, if I just had a CD-ROM player...

Hallvard Paulsen

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Steven Pritchard)
Subject: Re: New Linux Distribution
Date: 30 Sep 1994 10:00:51 -0600

[email-masked] (Erik Troan) writes:

>DOS doesn't have "rm -rf /".

"deltree /y \*.*"

Of course, that's probably not a bad thing.  :)

Steve
-- 
[email-masked]  | Southern Illinois Linux Users Group
Steven Pritchard          | http://nyx10.cs.du.edu:8001/~spritcha/home.html
(618)549-8579             | Meetings the 1st and 3rd Mondays of every month.

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Marcus Daniels)
Subject: Re: Copyright and licensing - a plea to software authors
Date: 28 Sep 1994 22:30:45 -0700

"Theodore Ts'o" <[email-masked]> writes:

>I suppose that since no one else has written a freeware distribution of
>MS-DOS, the fact that your drivers dynamically link with MS-DOS means
>that they are "one program", and you are therefore misappropriating
>Microsloth's program by using the subterfuge of distributing drivers
>separately from MS-DOS?

The subterfuge is in pretending that a (gmp) dependent body of code
isn't dependent just by virtue of being distributed separately.
It is a change in packaging, nothing more.  Your analogy would
have been more interesting if you would have replaced `MSDOS/drivers' with 
`Hurd/Hurd-specific-applications'.  Hmm..

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Larry Pyeatt)
Subject: Re: Maple V for Linux
Date: 30 Sep 1994 16:06:16 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Ray Hann) writes:
|> 
|> Isn't windows for workgroups multi-user? I know NT is definitely multi-user.

Wrong on both counts.
WFW is just the same old Windows 3.1 with built in networking. Whoopee.
MicroSloth calls Windows NT "serially multiuser" wich just means that
people can take turns using it (just like OS/2).  Whoopee.

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Richard L. Goerwitz)
Subject: Re: How to pronounce Linux??
Reply-To: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 22:15:16 GMT

[email-masked] (Inge Cubitt) writes:
>
>: Given that Minix, at least in english, has a short i, that is how I
>: pronounce Linux. BUT I always qualify any discussion on this subject with:
>
>What is all this long and short business?  They seem to take the same length
>of time to say whether it's i as in in or i as in line.  Which is which?

It's what the old schoolteachers teach English-speaking students, and
most never stop to think whether it's true or not.  As far as I can tell
the a in bad is actually longer than the a in plate, though they call
the second one long.

If I remember right, the definitive way of pronouncing Linux is something
most English speakers can't comfortably say:  lee-nooks (spelled using
that inimitable pseudo-phonetic writing we English speakers use).  Tho
even this ain't right.  The ee is shorter, and the oo is fronted.  We got
no such vowels in English!

Before this blows up out of control, note that it is in the FAQ!

-- 

   -Richard L. Goerwitz              [email-masked]
   [email-masked]          rutgers!oddjob!ellis!goer

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Bruce Sherwood)
Crossposted-To: alt.fan.linus-torvalds
Subject: Re: Hmmm
Date: 29 Sep 1994 19:38:34 -0700

  I'll throw my two cents in in that direction...
  I respect anyone who can turn a single user machine like mine into a 
system that I am trying to find things to do with it to soak up all that 
left over horse power.

  All in all, a hardy salute to a man and an idea that has brought forth 
a fantastic fruit for the world to enjoy (or get really really frustrated
 by :)  )

 ...bruce

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Michael P. Lepore)
Subject: Re: New Linux Distribution
Date: 28 Sep 1994 18:42:27 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
Juana Moreno <[email-masked]> wrote:
>I have been thinking of putting up a new Linux distribution especially
>oriented to DOS-Win dummies. I have taken a nontraditional approach and
>am willing to sacrifice many of the sacred cows of Unix. I really think 
>that many features of traditional unix are not very useful in a typical
>home pc context. However, clearly Linux has many advantages over Dos-Win
>if care is taken for keeping a reasonably small distribution. That way,
>Dos-Win users can discover the power of Linux without feeling overwhelmed.
>I'd like to include a short and concise guide that highlights the major
>differences between dos-win and Linux-Xfree86, something of the sort of
>the book "Unix in a Nutshell" but much shorter. A possible title could be
>"Unix (Linux) in a Pinhead: an introduccion to Unix for Dos users" (grin).
>
I agree totally, I have many friends who have used Unix on the school
systems, and would like SOME of the features without the difficult
setup that is inherrent in a unix system (which does also add a lot of
performance benefits, but, some people just don't want to be
bothered...)

>       - Defaults to SINGLE USER mode. No need to show the complications
>               of multiuser accounts to newbies who will likely use it
>               personally.
I really don't like this idea, single use mode, especially in Unix
gives the person way too much ability to mess up the system, maby if
the distribution added a user name automatically and a password in the
install program...

>       - Only one shell: bash, with lots of aliases that match as closely
>               as possible the COMMAND.COM commands and the utilities in
>               the DOS directory. Maybe it won't be very difficult to 
>               include a .BAT->.sh translator.
This is a good idea, although I think there are people who will want a
csh also... but ??? .. and to translate .BAT files (or maby even be
able to run them with a command that took them as input...) shouldn't
be too hard, as there are very few DOS commands..

>       - Only enough utilities to match the functionality of the DOS
>               standard utilities plus the major unix winners like 
>               grep, awk and sed. (But not vi or emacs!!!).
Possibly perl, and an emacs clone (jove possibly, as it is small, and
it is still a text editor), or even pico so that they have a
text-based editing program..

>       - NO NETWORKING, except for maybe a terminal program (minicom) and
>               a mostly configured SLIP (client side only). In that case,
>               maybe Mosaic should be also included.
Hmmm.. I think as maby an addon SLIP would be good, (same with Mosaic)
but I don't think that its necessary to the main distribution..

>       -NO SCSI. Most home dos-win users don't even know what SCSI is.
What about CD-ROM drives, there are a lot of users who have those now,
and you don't want them to be left out...

>       -XFree 3.1 configured to use the VGA16 server (mono or color) with
>               a generic (low resolution) Xconfig.
Great idea, I think that you should have a setup-program that would
also let you choose possibly 800x600 resolution, or maby even enhanced
resolutions that are standard to specific cards, to elinate any
problems with people wanting more space on the display...

>       - Utilities to match the standard Windows applets:
>               Winfile -> Xfm-1.3
>               Progman -> Xfm-1.3
>               Notepad -> Axe (?)
>               Write   -> Ez
>               Terminal -> Minicom (Seyon?)
>               Mediaplay -> ?????
>               Dos windows -> Xterm,rxvt (of course !!!)
>               Whatelse??? 
You might want to include ghostscript that is configured for quite a
few major printers, and have it be able to automatically configure an
LPR filter that will let them print postscript from their
printers.. that way they dont' have to worry about not being able to
print without a lazer printer.. (minimal fonts etc...)

>       - Only one window manager: FVWM
Good choice, this is close to the Windows look and feel... 

-- 
Things are not  |    "I refuse to engage in     | [email-masked] 
always as they  |     a battle of wits with     |      CS '97       
  appear...     |     an unarmed person..."     |

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.qnx,comp.os.386bsd.misc
From: [email-masked] (Peter da Silva)
Subject: Re: QNX, Linux, or 386BSD?
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 03:06:20 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, Po-Han Lin <[email-masked]> wrote:
>If one has a pc compatible with a 486, which OS is the best unix
>operating system?  QNX, Linux, or 386BSD?  

The answer, as always, is "what do you want to do with it"?

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Alan Cox)
Subject: Re: IP Addresses For Standalone LAN
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 12:36:37 GMT

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Benjamin John Walter) writes:
>by ORA, it says that the address with a first byte "Greater than 223,
>indicates the address is reserved.  We can ignore these reserved
>addresses".  You shouldn't find people using those addresses on the
>Internet, so I guess you could use address then 224.0.0.x for your own
>LAN.

Won't work. The kernel code in most systems is smart enough to either
know 224.x.x.x is multicast or to ignore it.

Alan
-- 
  ..-----------,,----------------------------,,----------------------------,,
 // Alan Cox  //  [email-masked]   //  GW4PTS@GB7SWN.#45.GBR.EU  //
 ``----------'`----------------------------'`----------------------------''

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Lars Wirzenius)
Subject: Re: How Old Is Linus?
Date: 30 Sep 1994 14:38:29 +0200

[email-masked] (Peter N Lewis) writes:
> He told us while he was in Perth last week that by some strange setup, he
> is giving a course at his university, and since he hasn't got a credit for
> the course yet it counts towards his degree as well.  :-)

That is true.  I don't know if it is true anywhere else in Finland,
but at our department, if one teaches a course and does not have a
credit for it, one gets the credit.  One must, of course, have the
the necessary knowledge and skills to teach the course first (lest
anyone thinks we hire just anyone as a teacher).  For some curious
reason, the people in charge think Linus can teach the courses he
teaches.

-- 
[email-masked]  (finger [email-masked])
ftp.cs.helsinki.fi:pub/Software/Local/Publib -- general C function library

PS.  When the linuses are away, the larses use his computer. :-)

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Joe George)
Subject: Re: New Linux Distribution
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 19:42:13 GMT

[email-masked] (Juana Moreno) writes:

>I have been thinking of putting up a new Linux distribution especially
>oriented to DOS-Win dummies. I have taken a nontraditional approach and
>am willing to sacrifice many of the sacred cows of Unix. I really think 
>that many features of traditional unix are not very useful in a typical
>home pc context.

Agreed. In a nutshell, though, the things that you plan to strip away from
Linux are the things that make Linux a powerful operating system. If the
typical home PC user doesn't want to mess with the complexities of Linux,
then I think it's safe to say that Linux isn't for them. 

>       - Defaults to SINGLE USER mode. No need to show the complications
>               of multiuser accounts to newbies who will likely use it
>               personally.

If you're just going to run single user then why run Linux?

>       - Only one shell: bash, with lots of aliases that match as closely
>               as possible the COMMAND.COM commands and the utilities in
>               the DOS directory. Maybe it won't be very difficult to 
>               include a .BAT->.sh translator.

If you're just going to make Linux look as brain dead as DOS, why run Linux?

I'll remove the rest of your iedas to save bandwidth, but my opinion is that
if you have a user that uses DOS and Windows and is happy running what they
have, why water down a Linux distribution just so they can do the same
thing? That's foolish.

-- 
Joe George ([email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked])
for a in past present future; do for b in employers employees lovers cats;
do echo My opinions are not necessarily those of my $a $b; done; done
R.I.P., U.S. Constitution, August 26th, 1994

------------------------------

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End of Linux-Misc Digest
******************************