Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #857
From: Digestifier <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 94 11:13:43 EDT

Linux-Misc Digest #857, Volume #2                 Sat, 1 Oct 94 11:13:43 EDT

Contents:
  Re: Don't use Linux or it's to academic! (Mark Bolzern)
  Re: Don't use Linux or it's to academic! (Mark Bolzern)
  Re: P5-90 MHz beats SGI R4000-100MHz. (James Lewis Nance)
  Re: Linux, 40,000 Cover CD's (Neil Matthew)
  Linux mentioned in PC Week (Dennis Heltzel)
  Re: New Linux Distribution (zachary brown)
  Re: Suggestions for a 486 PCI Motherboard (Mark A. Horton KA4YBR)
  Re: Maple V for Linux (Tony Galway)
  Re: New Linux Distribution (Viktor T. Toth)
  Re: Copyright and licensing - a plea to software authors (Craig Milo Rogers)
  Re: ParcPlace OI builder?? (Klaus Schniedergers)
  Re: New Linux Distribution (Juana Moreno)
  Re: SCO WordPerfect: does it run on Linux? (Bill Willis)
  Re: Time Screws up w/ Linux (Spencer PriceNash)
  Re: 16 Port Board: Which model and where?? (Pete Kruckenberg)
  Re: X News-reader for LinuX (Robert Ashcroft)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Mark Bolzern)
Subject: Re: Don't use Linux or it's to academic!
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 00:36:05 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
Svein Erik Brostigen <[email-masked]> wrote:
><Flam-bait follows!>
>First, please excuse my language - English is my second language,
>Norwegian is my first.
>
>Now, I would never (or at least not for some years) recommend Linux to
>my customers as an alternative to MS-DOS or OS/2, especially not when
>we are talking about networks and day-to-day use of business programs.
>
>2. There are no programs available that does Word-processing, spreadsheets,
>   databases, presentation graphics and so on, as we have under MS-DOS
>   and Windows.

What would you call FlagShip?  or Lotus 123 under dosemu? WP under dosemu?

>3. There is currently no easy way to interconnect to LAN Server or Netware
>   natively, i.e.  from Linux.

Sure there is.... Netware NFS & TCP/IP.... 

>6. Nationalized version of the few programs existing are not available.

FlagShip is fully nationalized

>9. Printed manuals and easy 'Get started' manuals does not exist.

Sure they do... we print Mat Welsh's, among others I have seen.

>12. There is no disk-compression.

This is shaky on any platform & disk space is cheap..

>What amazes me, is that there are so few from the commercial world in
>this fora, only from the academic world. Maybe I should take that as
>a sign telling me that this is of purely academic interest at the
>moment.
>
>Now gentlemen, it's up to YOU!

Ok, I have a major commercial product ported to Linux.... Will you talk about
it? try the free demo from my ftp server?

-- 
Mark Bolzern :  [email-masked]    USA Tel: (303) 699-7470  Fax: (303) 699-2793 
WorkGroup Solutions, Inc.    The FlagShip "CA-Clipper and XBase on Unix" People
  FlagShip is a 4GL Database Development System & XBase Porting Tool for Unix
No Runtime Fees   Info at ftp.wgs.com : /pub2/wgs/Filelist OR mail: [email-masked]

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Mark Bolzern)
Subject: Re: Don't use Linux or it's to academic!
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 00:43:29 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
Hallvard Paulsen <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
>Well, IBM seams to realize that MCA is not going 
>to survive very much longer.

Yea, by buildind ISA & PCI machines & pahsing out MCA boxes.

>|> What amazes me, is that there are so few from the commercial world in
>|> this fora, only from the academic world. Maybe I should take that as
>|> a sign telling me that this is of purely academic interest at the
>|> moment.
>
>This is still an academic net. I don't know how many commercial
>places are connected at this time. Anywhay, "nobody has ever
>been fired for buying IBM is still an important phrase".

I personally know six different people that WERE fired for buying IBM.
One AS400, several RS/6000 and more for MCA.

-- 
Mark Bolzern :  [email-masked]    USA Tel: (303) 699-7470  Fax: (303) 699-2793 
WorkGroup Solutions, Inc.    The FlagShip "CA-Clipper and XBase on Unix" People
  FlagShip is a 4GL Database Development System & XBase Porting Tool for Unix
No Runtime Fees   Info at ftp.wgs.com : /pub2/wgs/Filelist OR mail: [email-masked]

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (James Lewis Nance)
Subject: Re: P5-90 MHz beats SGI R4000-100MHz.
Date: 1 Oct 1994 12:31:00 GMT
Reply-To: [email-masked] (James Lewis Nance)

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Valery Petrov) writes:
> Path: taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!darwin.sura.net!wvnvms!cerc.wvu.edu!zeus.chem.wvu.edu!lera
> 
> This is the code to I've used to test floating point performance. I would
> appreciate if you post your results for R4600.
> On R4000 it gives:
> timex:
> real     3:37.38
> user     3:13.71
> sys        10.37
> 

If you want another Reference point  Here are the times on the 590 model of
an RS6000:

> timex ./a.out
Data: Ly = 109.300000, time = 0.000000
 t=99.1,  nit=4, dt=2.05, xmin = 0.0000 
Done, v = 0.337000, avgdfl = 0.000000 dt = 2.048668
 
real 117.96
user 117.62
sys  0.04

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Neil Matthew)
Reply-To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Linux, 40,000 Cover CD's
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 14:33:01 +0000

A.P. Crossan ([email-masked]) wrote:
: Anders Hedborg ([email-masked]) wrote:

: > When is it supposed to be on the shelves? And what issue should I
: > ask for?

: I mailed lasermoon this question, but I'm still waiting a reply.

: The latest edition of PC-PLUS states that they are changing the publication
: date. The November copy will not appear until 1st of that month -- quite a
: wait :-(

The current issue, out now, has Slackware Linux on the CD on the front!
It's the October 1994 issue, you do not have to wait 6 weeks!
(it may have been a late addition, so it's not prominent and only appears
on the CD contents list shown on the CD edition itself I think).

Regards
Neil

+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Neil Matthew                           Non sequitur                    |
| [email-masked]                 Your facts are uncoordinated    |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Dennis Heltzel)
Subject: Linux mentioned in PC Week
Date: 28 Sep 1994 20:32:52 -0000

Just read the latest PC Week and found that they mentioned Linux in a 
short article about 32-bit OS's. It was one of 2 "options of particular 
interest" for UNIX OS's (the other was AIX 4.1). I was favorably 
impressed by the following quote:

"Linux, meanwhile, is a UNIX-compatible system with freely available 
source code, high stability, and growing commercial support."

I especially like the mention of high stability. Maybe this will satisfy 
the "it's not ready for prime time" naysayers; then again, probably not.

Sept 26 issue, page 14

Dennis

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (zachary brown)
Subject: Re: New Linux Distribution
Date: 1 Oct 1994 09:36:26 -0400

Hi. I'm relatively new to Linux, and to unix in general, having used DOS
basically all my life. My suggestion is this: Do all the stuff you're
talking about, about single user mode and scripts to emulate dos
commands, etc., because it will provide a familiar atmosphere. But also
make it incredibly easy to, layer by layer, strip away the crippledness.
TeX, for example, is a tremendously powerful and complex thing, but it's
not difficult to begin using it to produce attractive documents. The key
to this whole debate is transition. Obviously no one wants to see millions
of DOS users stuck with a shitty distribution of Linux. Unfortunately it
is quite possible that this new distribution may actually become a
standard for many people, unless active steps are taken to encourage
them in and inform them about unix's greater power and versatility. The
only way I can see to do this is to give them a complete distribution,
in which many of the features and commands are simply turned off,
waiting for a very simple procedure to make them active.

So give them the DOS interface they know so well, and the single user
mode, and all the rest of the nightmare. And underneath it all, give
them LINUX!

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Mark A. Horton KA4YBR)
Subject: Re: Suggestions for a 486 PCI Motherboard
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 1994 11:29:09 GMT

Steven M. Henry ([email-masked]) wrote:
: I am in the market to upgrade my computer and want to purchase a 486 PCI 
: motherboard that will give me good performance and will be compatible with 
: Linux. Please email me or post any replies.
: I will post a summary of the responses.

Why not just download a copy of the PCI-HOWTO from sunsite?  

--
"Linux!     Guerrilla UNIX Development     Venimus, Vidimus, Dolavimus."
============================================================
Mark A. Horton       ka4ybr             [email-masked]
P.O. Box 747 Decatur GA US 30031-0747         [email-masked]
+1.404.371.0291                     33 45 31 N / 084 16 59 W

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Tony Galway)
Subject: Re: Maple V for Linux
Date: 28 Sep 1994 23:14:21 GMT
Reply-To: [email-masked]

[email-masked] (Ross Niebergall) writes:

>In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Steve Weibel) writes:
>>I don't know...  When I can pick up a student version of Mathematica for
>>Windows at the bookstore for $160, I'm tempted to keep my DOS partition.

>You should note that the price that was quoted for Maple for Linux
>was not the student version.

I would imagine the higher price for maple is due to unix being a
multi-user platform. Windows is for one person, however on a unix
implementation of a program (unless it is otherwise restricted, and 
I dont think maple is) then that program is available to alot of
people.

(only a guess :) )

-Tony

--
Tony Galway            |  Life is what happens while you're making other plans.
C-CAE                  |-------------------------------------------------------
Memorial University    |  "I dissapprove of what you say, but will defend to
[email-masked]       | the death your right to say it" - Voltaire

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Viktor T. Toth)
Subject: Re: New Linux Distribution
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 1994 00:29:16

>Juana Moreno <[email-masked]> wrote:
>>I have been thinking of putting up a new Linux distribution especially
>>oriented to DOS-Win dummies. I have taken a nontraditional approach and
>>am willing to sacrifice many of the sacred cows of Unix.

[stuff deleted]

Is this post for real? It is not the 'sacred cows' of Unix you are 
sacrificing, it is essential functionality. If all you want to accomplish is 
to make Linux look like DOS/Windows, why bother? Why not just install the real 
thing instead?

What you are suggesting here sounds about as ridiculuous as a car dealer 
would, who would try to sell cars cut in half lengthwise to appeal to those 
'motorcycle dummies' out there. Unix (or Linux) is *NOT* DOS/Windows, nor was 
it ever meant to be; the very reason why one would want to run UNIX is to have 
networking, multiuser capabilities, etc... the very stuff you are trying to 
take away.

Ah, why do I bother? This posting was probably flame-bait anyways.

Viktor

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Craig Milo Rogers)
Subject: Re: Copyright and licensing - a plea to software authors
Date: 28 Sep 1994 23:01:27 -0700

[Note: I am not a lawyer.  The following is not legal advice.]

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Marcus Daniels) writes:
>The subterfuge is in pretending that a (gmp) dependent body of code
>isn't dependent just by virtue of being distributed separately.
>It is a change in packaging, nothing more.  Your analogy would
>have been more interesting if you would have replaced `MSDOS/drivers' with 
>`Hurd/Hurd-specific-applications'.  Hmm..

        No, the main problem is that the FSF appears to interpret the
word "dependent" in a fashion which appears incompatible with U.S.
Copyright law and current precedents (few though those are).  Applying
the generally-accepted Copyright law definitions of critical words and
phrases, such as "derived from" and following the precise wording of
GPL2, the allegedly "gmp" dependent code in the standard example is
not legally gmp dependent (unless you apply an interface copyright);
and in the grey areas, the separate distribution is potentially
significant, too.

                                        Craig Milo Rogers

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Klaus Schniedergers)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development
Subject: Re: ParcPlace OI builder??
Date: 29 Sep 1994 09:20:34 GMT
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>>>>> "David" == David A Vohwinkel <[email-masked]> writes:
    David> and can you buy any manuals for
    David> it?

Yes, a manual for the library (not about the builder) is available as
an ordinary book. I saw it in several bookstores. It seemed to be
identical to the OI-lib-manual that you get when you buy an OI license.
Title is 'OI Programmer's Guide' or similar.
Klaus
-- 
Klaus Schniedergers, OSS Design, [email-masked]
<A HREF="http://www-eed.ericsson.se:8001/org/b/eedksc.html"> Me </A>

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Juana Moreno)
Subject: Re: New Linux Distribution
Date: 29 Sep 1994 06:00:04 -0400

Thank you for the suggestions so far. I am serioulsy considering making
this WIT distribution. But my intention, as I said, is that this will be
a trial (transitional?) distribution, not a final one, so upgradeability
to a major distribution (Slackware) is a main concern. I take S. Lee's
idea of using UMSDOS and packaging it as LINUX.ZIP (WIT.ZIP). I changed
my mind on the SCSI issue. In general, given the lack of drivers, ( a la
 *.SYS *.DRV in Dos-Win) in the Linux kernel and the difficulty of setting
up Xconfig in a generic way, maybe the only solution will be to provide
several different precompiled kernels and X servers/Xconfig's and ask the
user some questions about their hardware in order to automatically choose
the right configuration. So, I think I'll follow the example of the 
existing distributions with their multiple kernels.

I did not change my mind about keeping the distribution tiny, stripping 
many Unix utilities. Even if the distribution looks similar to WinDos it
won't be. Even with only enough utilities to match Microsoft's ones users
will have the following advantages:

        - Nonpropietary formats in data files. I started hating Microsoft
products the first time I wanted to edit the data I stored using CARDFILE.EXE

        - Upgradeability for FREE

        - Powerful shell scripting. I do not want to prevent users to use it,
I just want to make it easier for them. One of the points of the .BAT->.sh
translator is that users will be able to look at the .sh output and learn
the basic .sh commands that way. And it seems so easy to make!

        - Reliable I/O redirection and pipes. Not even OS/2 does that 
properly.

        - Coherent integration of windows and shells. How frustrating is to
try to open or close a Windows program from the command line.

        - No stupid limits on resources or size of files to edit. Reliable
crash protection. No stupid limits on command lines. Reliable virtual memory.
32bit disk and memory access without hassles and in general a much better
handling of the (supported) hardware.

        - Powerful automation of tasks via batch and cron. For example, running
updatedb every night beats the fastest DosWin file finder by orders of 
magnitude.

        - Freedom from the 8.3 constraint.

        - Consistent mouse selection with and WITHOUT windowing system.

        - Multiple virtual consoles (I never thought of not having them, Erik)

        - Multiple users. OK, I changed my mind on this one, mainly because
I realized that accounts make it easy to have different background bitmaps
for different moods :-) I really don't buy the claim that having root 
access is dangerous since DosWin users have root access all the time. It's
not that bad, it just demystifies the unix sysadmin work.

So, my WIT distribution, as I see it now, will consist of:

        - Dos-like and Windows-like utilities
        - Grep, awk, sed, bash
        - Slip client and Mosaic
        - Dosemu and ( later ) Wine
        - Ghostscript

Maybe I will include perl, tcl and tk (or tkperl) so that I can write
a few frontends to some common tasks (like zipping/unzipping)

I haven't decided yet about the applets that I'll include, so I am open to
more suggestions. I don't have a complete list of Windows equivalents, so
please help me with that. I feel there is a need to have a distribution like
the Windows Introductory Trial distribution I am proposing. Repartitioning and
filling 50M of your disk is just too much to try Linux. And the problem with
installing just the "a" series of Slackware is that you get a lot of utilities
that you will never use while others (like Xfm and dosemu) are missing. 
So thanks to all of you who made suggestions. I'd like to have more.

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Bill Willis)
Subject: Re: SCO WordPerfect: does it run on Linux?
Date: 29 Sep 1994 02:03:38 GMT
Reply-To: [email-masked] (Bill Willis)

-- 
Bill Willis
In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Marc Fraioli) writes:
|>Nope, 5.0 does have an X version.  I have seen it on SunOS, and use it
|>nearly every day on Ultrix.  Due to my constant exposure to it and great
|>hatred for it, I am afraid you will be unable to convince me of its 
|>non-existence (although I wish it were so).  5.1-X is not too bad, but
|>it is not available for Ultrix, which is what I have on my desk at work.
|>

We have 5.1 on Ultrix. Ain't all that great, but we have it...

Bill Willis

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Spencer PriceNash)
Subject: Re: Time Screws up w/ Linux
Date: 28 Sep 1994 22:54:24 -0400

In article <[email-masked]>,
Kamal Shaker <[email-masked]> wrote:

The above is ok, but

>Spencer PriceNash ([email-masked]) wrote:

This isn't true.  Whatever I wrote has been deleted!

>: In article <[email-masked]>,
>: John Pearson <[email-masked]> wrote:
>: >[email-masked] (Vaughn Adams) writes:
>: >
>: >>   I have had this problem for a while and never bothered to resolve it.
>: >>Now that I need cron, I need to get it fixd.  Everytime I boot Linux, my i
>: >>clock screws up.  THe time is always off, but the date is ok.  This doesn't 
>: >>happen with any other OS that I have run on the computer.  I am runnin 
>: >>Slackware 1.2 with a couple of dirrerent kernels. it seems to be kernel
>: >>independant.
>
>Ha! You think you have problems, everytime I boot to linux it
>sets the date to April!! I have no idea about this, but OS/2
>and Dos don't do anything like this....

I'd suggested using clock and date, as I recall.
-- 
Spencer PriceNash   [email-masked]   [email-masked]
Dan Quayle via anon ftp: Quotes at umcc.umich.edu in pub/users/quayle, GIFs
and sound files at vaxa.crc.mssm.edu in quayle/gif and quayle/sound.

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Pete Kruckenberg)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help,comp.os.linux.admin
Subject: Re: 16 Port Board: Which model and where??
Date: 29 Sep 1994 02:39:24 GMT

Bart Kindt ([email-masked]) wrote:
: Hi! I have to set up a 16 port Dial-In terminal server. For this, I need a 
: Linux compatible 16 (serial) Port PC board.  I have read about boards with the 
: name BOCA, but is this the only one I can use?

: And more important, where can I buy one, as cheap as possible? I am in New 
: Zealand, and they are *not* available here.

: Any info and suggestions would be very much appreciated!
: Please reply be E-Mail !

Digiboard will be releasing a Linux driver (1.1.50 kernel) for their PC/Xe
board in about two weeks. I don't know if theirs is 16-port or not. You
probably don't want to run 16 ports without using an intelligent I/O
product such as Digiboards. There is also the Cyclades Cyclom, which is
being advertised in Linux Journal. The driver is on sunsite in pub/Linux
/kernel/misc, I think, with the name cyclad*. I believe they have an 8-port
and 16-port version, and they are co-processed boards.

Pete.

  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Pete Kruckenberg                       School: [email-masked]
  University of Utah                       Work: [email-masked]
  Computer Engineering    For even more addresses, "finger [email-masked]"

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Robert Ashcroft)
Subject: Re: X News-reader for LinuX
Date: 30 Sep 1994 19:13:28 GMT

You might want to fix the newsreader you have before you go any
further (so that you give a valid return address in the header).

archie result follows.

In article <[email-masked]>,
Wrath Child <[email-masked]> wrote:
>I'm looking for an Xnews reader for LinuX.  If anyone has 
>any info about something like this...I would be a very 
>happy camper.

archie xrn

Host inf.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de

    Location: /local/news/newsreader
           FILE -rw-rw-r--        263  Mar  4 1993  xrn

Host pandora.tuc.noao.edu

    Location: /iraf/iraf/v210/AUX3/auxbin
           FILE -rwxr-xr-x     515716  May  1 1993  xrn

Host tucana.tuc.noao.edu

    Location: /iraf/v210/AUX3/auxbin
           FILE -rwxr-xr-x     515716  May  1 1993  xrn

Host harpo.seas.ucla.edu

    Location: /mnt/fs01
      DIRECTORY dr-xr-xr-x        512  May  5 1993  xrn

Host imag.imag.fr

    Location: /archive/x11
      DIRECTORY drwxr-xr-x        512  Apr 18 08:19  xrn

Host grasp1.univ-lyon1.fr

    Location: /pub/nfs-mounted/ftp.univ-lyon1.fr/unix/news/readers
      DIRECTORY drwxr-xr-x        512  Jun  2 21:06  xrn
    Location: /pub/nfs-mounted/sun/unix/news/readers
      DIRECTORY drwxr-xr-x        512  Jun  2 1993  xrn

Host akiu.gw.tohoku.ac.jp

    Location: /.u2/BSD/0.1-ports/news
      DIRECTORY drwxrwxr-x        512  Jul 11 07:13  xrn

Host news.cfi.waseda.ac.jp

    Location: /pub3/386BSD/0.1-ports/news
      DIRECTORY drwxr-xr-x        512  Jul  8 1993  xrn

Host mcsun.eu.net

    Location: /news/readers
      DIRECTORY drwxrwxr-x        512  Feb 28 15:04  xrn

Host ftp.luth.se

    Location: /pub/infosystems/news/readers
      DIRECTORY drwxr-xr-x        512  May 21 21:58  xrn

------------------------------

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End of Linux-Misc Digest
******************************