Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #901
From: Digestifier <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 94 10:13:23 EDT

Linux-Misc Digest #901, Volume #2                 Sat, 8 Oct 94 10:13:23 EDT

Contents:
  LINUX on an Mac Centris 610 DOS machine (Michelle Murrain)
  GCC for the ARM6 (Heinz Wolter)
  Re: Yggdrasil Linux Plug and Play CD ver1.1 ? (Jeff Kesselman)
  Re: Commercial software for Linux (Harald Milz)
  Re: Pixmaps (John Gotts)
  Re: Linux on a 386 (Wallace Roberts)
  Yggdrasil Fall 1994: buyers be aware (Yan Xiao)
  Re: kermit on Linux CD - violates copyrights (Wallace Roberts)
  Re: 56.6 Kb simulated with 2 28.8Kb modems. Is it possible? (Bigfoot)
  Re: NYC Linux Meeting at Unix Expo - Tuesday O (Kevin Penrose)
  Re: X News-reader for LinuX (Marc Fraioli)
  Cnews - HELP!
  Re: Telnet & ftp freeze! - AND UNFREEZE KLUDGE (System Administrator)
  Re: Word (Text) processors for Linux? (Irtegov Dmitry Valentinovich)
  Re: New Linux Distribution (Alexandra Griffin)
  Re: Mystery Chip...AMD (Daniel Zappala)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Michelle Murrain)
Subject: LINUX on an Mac Centris 610 DOS machine
Date: 7 Oct 1994 19:41:04 GMT

I'm strongly considering buying a used Macintosh Centris 610 DOS
machine, which has a PC motherboard (486 SX/25) inside. Has anyone out
there tried to install linux in this kind of machine? If so, were there
any special hurdles you had to jump? I've been working with linux for a
couple of months on a standard PC, but haven't ever installed it
myself, so I guess that makes me a relative newbie. Thanks for any
info.

                       Michelle

Michelle Murrain, Ph.D.
School of Natural Science             [email-masked]
Hampshire College                    [email-masked]
Amherst, MA 01002
URL: http://www.hampshire.edu/Hampshire/ns/html/Murrain.html

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.386bsd.misc
From: [email-masked] (Heinz Wolter)
Subject: GCC for the ARM6
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 22:57:21 GMT

Has anyone used the GCC to generate code for the ARM6 or may Acorn?
I know this isn't strictly a linux question, but this is misc. and I 
found a bunch of references and files refering to the ARM2/3/6 codegen
for GCC on my YGGdrassil linux cdrom...
I've got a Newton and would like to find a way to compile for it using
my linux boz rather than a macintoy of dos/winblows (whenever apple 
feels like getting off their butts and porting the NTK and CC to Intel..)

thanks, heinz

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Jeff Kesselman)
Subject: Re: Yggdrasil Linux Plug and Play CD ver1.1 ?
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 19:33:38 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, Paul Bash <[email-masked]> wrote:
>In article <[email-masked]>, Paul Bash <[email-masked]> wrote:
>>
>>  4) When attempting to auto-detect my modem and mouse, the install process
>>     detected the mouse on the port where my modem is attached and detected no
>>     modem _at all_. Even though Linux has been happily using this modem and
>>     mouse for the last year. The result was that I'm thrown onto the X desktop
>>     with no mouse but fvwm waiting for me to click the mouse button to indicate
>>     where I want it to place the Control Panel window. I'm given absolutely
>>     no chance to override what the install process detected. I have to 
>>     reboot the system, manually edit the Xconfig file, and start again. Good
>>     thing I know where to find the Xconfig file. Many newcomers wouldn't. Nice.
>>    
>
>This is wrong. I went back and checked things and you _are_ given the option of 
>specifying your mouse port the first time you try to run X. The install process
>still didn't locate my modem and still didn't give me an option to specify where
>it was, but my X problems were probably just a product of my having a bad day. 
>
>-- 
>Paul Bash   
>[email-masked]

Oh good, 'cause this was the one point that really seemed to make no 
sense at all to me. Glad we sorted it out.  Ignore please my comments 
thereon.  :)

Jeff Kesselman

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Harald Milz)
Subject: Re: Commercial software for Linux
Reply-To: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 17:25:40 GMT

In comp.os.linux.misc, Miguel A. Rozsas ([email-masked]) wrote:

>       I would like to know about commercial software for Linux.

There's anew Commercial-HOWTO on sunsite. The hottest version is on
ftp.ix.de:/pub/Linux/docs/HOWTO/Commercial-HOWTO (different formats
incl. HTML).

>       I am looking for a SQL Database Manager and a COBOL compiler. Exists in PDS and proprietary solution ? Anyone can point me a anonymous ftp address that have Linux software ?

Please consider to use your RETURN key from time to time ;^)

There are several SQL packages. Roumours say there is a free COBOL compiler
around. There's no commercial COBOL yet, but Acucobol is considering
releasing a Linux version. 

-- 
A LISP programmer knows the value of everything, but the cost of
nothing.
-- 
Harald Milz ([email-masked])      WWW: http://www.ix.de/editors/hm.html
iX Multiuser Multitasking Magazine      phone +49 (511) 53 52-377
Helstorfer Str. 7, D-30625 Hannover     fax   +49 (511) 53 52-378
Opinions stated herein are my own, not necessarily my employer's.

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (John Gotts)
Subject: Re: Pixmaps
Date: 4 Oct 1994 05:52:30 GMT

I believe the X FAQ lists several collections of pixmaps.  Most of them are on
ftp.x.org.

--
John Gotts ([email-masked])  73 de N8QDW   URL: http://www.umich.edu/~jgotts
GE -d+ H s+: g-- p? !au a-- w+ v C++++ UL++++ P+>++ L++ 3- E--- N+++ K- !W M--
 V-- -po+(---) Y+ t+ 5 j+ R- G? tv b+ D B- e+ u--- h f+ r n- y? <Linux rules!>

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Wallace Roberts)
Subject: Re: Linux on a 386
Date: 7 Oct 1994 13:32:29 -0700

[email-masked] (Ian McCloghrie) writes:

        [ ...snip happens... ]

>When you get right down to it, an Intel 486 is really nothing more
>than an improved 386 with a 387 thrown in for good measure.

i think michael abrash would take issue with you on this one.  :-)

ah, but the devil's in the details of that little "improved" adjective,
such as 8k internal cache vs 0k internal cache, improved microcode,
improved pipeline, etc.  plus, the 486's *internal* math coproc far
outperforms the 386/387 combination.

for example: when i first bought my 486dx/33 many moons ago, a friend of
mine also purchased an amd 386dx/40.  he suffered under the illusion that
his 386 would be faster than my 486 for strictly integer work, since his
cpu had the faster clock.

he was not too pleased when his (strictly integer) benchmarks indicated
my "slower" 486 was nearly twice as fast as his 386.  btw, the machines
were identical in all respects except for cpu, i.e., same manufacturer,
same amount of cache, same amount of memory, etc.

gears,
ye wilde ryder
--
[email-masked] | 86 cr250 "dirt devil"    83 v65 magna "animal"
"E Pluribus Unix" | 79 it250 "mr. reliable"
"Criminals (especially tyrants) prefer unarmed victims."
"Ignorance can be cured; stupidity, on the other hand, is hereditary."

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Yan Xiao)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
Subject: Yggdrasil Fall 1994: buyers be aware
Date: 07 Oct 1994 20:38:14 GMT

We purchased Yggdrasil Fall 1994 Plug-and-Play recently,
and here are some of the problems we`ve encountered so far:

1. Im-Pass-word: User cannot change password.
    If you change password as a user, you will receive:
          Can't open /etc/ptmp, can't update password

2. More than you asked for:   'more' behaves strangely: 
    in console (non-X), you'll get segmentation fault.
    in X's xterm, you'll have trouble scrolling.
    The problem also affects 'appropos'.

3. Plug-and-Play, no-plug, no-play:  waning CD-ROM can be a challenge
    We didn't install everything (has anyone?), thus we picked
    packages we wanted from control-panel.  Guess what, we still
    have pointers to CD-ROM, such as /usr/X386/lib/libX11*.

As a posting earlier noted, unless you have only 10MB
on the hard disk, you may want to stay away from the
Plug-and-Play.  It appears that yggdrasil (not entirely
improper) has spent much energy in creating a
Plug-and-Play, and much less so in creating a well- (or
ever-) tested Linux package.

The current yggdrasil CD is our second buy, and I can
see the decline in quality. I sincerely hope that folks
at yggdrasil keep up the spirit of Plug-'n-Play, while
at the same time improve quality. 

Yan Xiao,  University of Maryland at Baltimore.

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Wallace Roberts)
Subject: Re: kermit on Linux CD - violates copyrights
Date: 7 Oct 1994 13:48:44 -0700

adam@adam (Adam J. Richter) writes:

        [ ...snip happens... ]

>       Yggdrasil long ago removed kermit from Plug-and-Play Linux
>for this reason.

so *that's* what happened to it; i was wondering why my yggdrasil fall
'93 cd had kermit, but my summer '94 one didn't.

although i still see vestiges of kermit in the new release, such as a
.kermrc file in /, & it's still advertised on the cover of your manual,
i.e.:

    The 76,323 files in this complete plug-and-play operating system include:

    [ ... ]

    Telecommunications: kermit, Z-modem, Taylor UUCP.

gears,
ye wilde ryder
--
[email-masked] | 86 cr250 "dirt devil"    83 v65 magna "animal"
"E Pluribus Unix" | 79 it250 "mr. reliable"
"Criminals (especially tyrants) prefer unarmed victims."
"Ignorance can be cured; stupidity, on the other hand, is hereditary."

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Bigfoot)
Subject: Re: 56.6 Kb simulated with 2 28.8Kb modems. Is it possible?
Date: 4 Oct 1994 15:15:50 -0500

[email-masked] (Whay S. Lee) writes:

>In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked]
>(David Edwards) writes:

> >Hmmm... maybe the load balancing stuff could do this... (I have no idea
> >how much of the load-balancing stuff has been implemented, or how stable
> >it is...)... If you could set up routing tables at both ends for this, it
> >seems like it would probibly work. (Famous last words, I know... :) )

>       I recall seeing a device that does just that in a catalog
>called "Black Boxes" (which unfortunately I no longer receive).

>       Basically, it's a pair of black boxes, one on each end
>of the modems:

>     box      modem                          modem  box
>      ---     ---                             ---    ---
>      | |-----| |-----------------------------| |----| |
>      | |     ---                             ---    | |
>      | |                transmission                | |
>      | |     ---                             ---    | |
>      | |-----| |-----------------------------| |----| |
>      ---     ---                             ---    ---
>             modem                           modem

>       I think the black boxes deal with the multiplexing of the
>signals, and appear as a single serial port to the host.
>Perhaps someone who does recieve that Black Boxes catalog can
>look it up.  (not cheap though, as I recall.. )

>whay.
Is that "Black Box" catalog, an U.S. based company ? Do they have an 800
number ?

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Kevin Penrose)
Subject: Re: NYC Linux Meeting at Unix Expo - Tuesday O
Reply-To: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 11:27:19 GMT

>You can get a complimentary exhibits pass by registering electronically by 
>telnetting to: blenheim.com
>and logging in as: unix94
>choose your terminal mode (ansi or vt100)
>and fill in the form. It did odd things when I registered, but seemed to work.
>

This electronic registration does not seem to be working for UNIX EXPO. 
Perhaps it's too late to register this way.  It let me register for PC EXPO
but not UNIX EXPO.  

Kevin

---
______________________________________________________________________________
Kevin M. Penrose                                  Email:  [email-masked]
Merrill Lynch                                     World Financial Center - NT
212-449-5712                                      New York, NY   10281-1314

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Marc Fraioli)
Subject: Re: X News-reader for LinuX
Date: 4 Oct 1994 22:06:02 GMT
Reply-To: [email-masked]

In article [email-masked],  [email-masked] (Robert S. Cauthorn) writes:
>But are any of the X news readers threaded? I haven't found one yet, unless 
>I'm using older versions of xvnews and xrn.
>
Not really, that I know of, but some are close.  I use xvnews 2.2.1, and
although it's not threaded, it will sort the messages alphabetically by
subject, and it's smart enough to ignore "Re:"s at the beginning.  This
is not quite the same as being fully threaded, but it seems close enough
for me.  Also, DEC has a version of xrn, called dxrn, which does do threading.
So far, however, I have not found a way to enable this automatically-- you
have to choose "thread articles" off a menu every single time you enter
a group.  This is quite annoying.  Also, dxrn wants either the DECwindows
or Motif widgets.  I've never seen it running on Linux, although I suspect
the Motif version should work (I've built it on Ultrix, OSF/1, SunOS, A/UX,
and SCO).

>Incidentally, is there a faq or something that lists the major X internet 
>clients? I'd love to see it in case I'm missing something.
>
Dunno, but it would be long...I use xvnews, Mosaic, xarchie, and mftp on Linux.
I use Mosaic for hitting gophers as well as Web servers.

---
Marc Fraioli          | "They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist- " 
[email-masked]         |    - Last words of Union General John Sedgwick,
                      |    Battle of Spotsylvania Court House, U.S. Civil War

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.admin,comp.os.linux.help
From: [email-masked] ()
Subject: Cnews - HELP!
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 04:38:52 GMT

Hello all....I recently installed the Slackware 2.0.1 Cnews package and am
experiencing some difficulties now.

I -USED- to have everything running just fine, but somehow my active file
became corrupted, my spool drive started to die w/ errors and things kind of
stopped working.

I saved all my config files and re-added all my groups.

Now, when the system starts to process it's incoming News spools, they
wind up being thrown into the /usr/spool/news/in.coming/bad directory.

Here's what my Errlog says..

relaynews: database files for `/var/lib/news/history' incomprehensible or unavailable (Permission denied)

Also, Here is an ls -al of the directoy (In case this is a permission or 
ownership problem.)

total 64
   4 -rw-rw-r--   1 news     news         3133 Oct  6 22:31 #active.times#
   1 drwxr-xr-x   7 news     news         1024 Oct  7 00:29 ./
   1 drwxr-xr-x  10 root     root         1024 Oct  7 00:28 ../
   1 -rw-r--r--   1 news     news          811 Oct  6 22:59 .newsrc
   8 -rw-r--r--   1 news     news         7782 Oct  6 22:58 .pinerc
   1 drwxr-xr-x   4 news     news         1024 Oct  6 22:59 .tin/
   1 drw-rw-r--   2 news     news         1024 Oct  6 22:59 Mail/
   1 drw-rw-r--   2 news     news         1024 Oct  6 22:59 News/
   2 -rw-rw-r--   1 news     news         1297 Oct  6 17:01 README.linux
   2 -rw-r--r--   1 news     news         1495 Oct  7 00:00 active
   1 -rw-r--r--   1 news     news          840 Oct  6 22:33 active.old
   2 -rw-r--r--   1 news     news         1609 Oct  6 22:33 active.times
   1 -rw-r--r--   1 news     news          760 Oct  6 17:01 active.times.o
   1 -rw-rw-r--   1 root     root           95 Oct  7 00:04 batchlog
   0 -rw-r--r--   1 news     news            0 Oct  6 22:56 batchlog.o
   0 -rw-r--r--   1 news     news            0 Oct  6 22:55 batchlog.oo
   0 -rw-r--r--   1 news     news            0 Oct  6 22:55 batchlog.ooo
   1 -rw-r--r--   1 news     news          568 Oct  6 17:01 batchparms
   1 drwxr-xr-x   2 news     news         1024 Oct  6 22:55 bin/
   1 -rw-r--r--   1 news     news          545 Oct  6 22:44 crontab.sample
   0 -rw-rw-r--   1 news     news            0 Sep 21 05:18 delayed
   1 -rw-rw-r--   1 root     root          636 Oct  7 00:28 errlog
   2 -rw-r--r--   1 news     news         2004 Oct  7 00:01 errlog.o
   0 -rw-r--r--   1 news     news            0 Oct  6 22:55 errlog.oo
   0 -rw-r--r--   1 news     news            0 Oct  6 22:55 errlog.ooo
   1 -rw-r--r--   1 news     news          241 Oct  7 00:00 explist
   0 -rw-rw-rw-   1 news     news            0 Oct  6 23:35 history
   3 -rw-r--r--   2 root     root         3072 Oct  6 23:35 history.dir
   3 -rw-r--r--   2 root     root         3072 Oct  6 23:35 history.pag
   0 lrwxrwxrwx   1 news     news           29 Sep 20 19:46 inews -> /usr/lib/newsbin/inject/inews*
   1 -rw-r--r--   1 news     news           26 Oct  6 22:38 localgroups
   1 -rw-rw-r--   1 root     root          182 Oct  6 23:52 log
   1 -rw-r--r--   1 news     news          546 Oct  7 00:01 log.o
   1 drw-rw-r--   2 news     news         1024 Oct  6 22:58 mail/
   1 -rw-r--r--   1 news     news           17 Oct  6 16:50 mailname
   1 -rw-r--r--   1 news     news           14 Oct  5 16:13 mailpaths
   0 lrwxrwxrwx   1 news     news           13 Sep 20 23:22 news -> /usr/lib/news/
   1 -rw-r--r--   1 news     news           41 Oct  6 22:59 organization
  14 -rwsr-sr-x   1 root     root        15715 Oct  7 00:00 setnewsids*
   1 -rw-r--r--   1 news     news          266 Oct  7 00:00 sys
   1 -rw-r--r--   1 news     news          423 Oct  5 16:30 wariat.feed
   0 -rw-r--r--   1 news     news            0 Oct  6 22:45 watchtime
   1 -rw-r--r--   1 news     news            7 Oct  7 00:00 whoami

Any suggestions would be helpful....Thanks..

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (System Administrator)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help,comp.os.linux.development
Subject: Re: Telnet & ftp freeze! - AND UNFREEZE KLUDGE
Date: 7 Oct 1994 21:57:57 GMT

Alan Cox ([email-masked]) wrote:

: What is interesting is everyone reporting the problem uses PPP. I've looked
: through the PPP driver but I can't see anything wrong with it.

We are using SLIP!  And the problems we see are not *after* a connection
is successfully opened, it is one of the system *refusing* connections
(apparently).  Nearly all functions handled by inetd seem affected: 
telnet logins, rlogins, ftp attempts, smail connections, attemps to do
zone transfers from named by our provider's router, you name it.  Things
work fine *most* of the time, but the login problems are the most
persistant and visible.  In those cases, the system log *usually* shows
'connect from...' but the user never gets a prompt, or never gets a
password prompt after entering username.  Netd entries in the log are
'connection refused' mostly. 

George Nemeyer    ([email-masked])
System Administrator
Tigerden.com

------------------------------

From: fat@Indy (Irtegov Dmitry Valentinovich)
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.questions
Subject: Re: Word (Text) processors for Linux?
Date: 08 Oct 1994 08:48:56 GMT

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Bill Willis) writes:

>   Actually, almost every study I have ever seen shows that WYSIWYG significantly
>   reduces the productivity of a person trying to get serious writing done. I
>   believe that these were studies of documentation producers and that they found
>   that users of WYSIWYG spend a lot of time formatting and reformatting to get
>   visual appearance when they should be writing content. In other words, the
>   process of wrting content then formatting is more productive that formatting as
>   you go and WYSIWYG tends to lead people to format as they go.
100% agree. I've had an experience translating a technical book from english
to russian. For `historical' reasons we were forced to do it in Word 5.5.
We've found that most productive way is to type text in `text mode' of
the wordprocessor, and format later - exactly the thing LaTeX does, but
in Word user should format manually, LaTeX do it automatically :).
It is why I prefer LaTeX. May be groff or other flawors of TeX would be better,
but I'm not familiar with them.

Also I participated in making a reprint in LaTeX. Initial articles were
in raw ASCII with different forms of pictures - from ASCII art to encapsulated
PostScript. Reprint was ~200 pages long. All work was done by two persons
in 1.5 days. It is same or faster than equal job done in Word for Windows,
though Word for Windows require 486s for NORMAL work; 
our work was done on 386SXes <g>.

It means that LaTeX at least NOT LESS productive than Word.
Convenience is too much a matter of a personal taste. 
Also `sheeps follow shepherd', and people tend to accept as 
convenient things they are told to be convenient ;).

Another argument against WYSIWYG: it draws your text as it will look on
the paper. It doesn't mean it will look well on the screen.
To make text on the screen easy readable/editable you should select 
other fonts and format in another way.
May be when we will hawe 600Dpi flat screens...

Learning curve for LaTeX is also very short. Everybody who has some
experience in ASCII editing and isn't brain dead since birth, may learn 
LaTeX basics in several minutes. He/she just should have short sample file
and know several simple facts (read f(orgotten) README :).

On another hand maketing (sp?) of newspaper page _requires_ WYSIWYG.

>   I guess that we are not talking letters and memos here, but reports, books,
>   etc. and this makes a difference. But the bottom line is, no body has ever
>   shown me anything that proves WYSIWYG makes for more productive writing...
I've found that for me ever making letters/memos is better/faster in LaTeX.
I very easy get sick of slow screen redraws in WYSIWYG editors, ever on 
486/fast VGA. Pentium or Alpha required for basic wordprocessing makes me 
er... feel that something is very wrong.

>   I also have to admit that I generally use WYSIWYG...
I agree that WYSIWYG is aways fun, often convenient and sometimes necessary.
It does not mean it is always necessary and convenient.
>   -- 
>   Bill Willis

Cheers, 
        Fat Brother.

`Fatal Error: Cannot enter Windows, try Doors instead'

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Alexandra Griffin)
Subject: Re: New Linux Distribution
Date: 7 Oct 1994 04:56:47 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
Erik Troan <[email-masked]> wrote:
>[...]
>Don't forget less used. Python may be good, but it's not ubiquitous. If you
>leave out sed and awk you're breaking a lot of shell scripts. How many
>makefiles use sed or awk in them? None of those will work if you remove them.

Agreed, and what's with this desire to strip away so many of the
normal Unix utils?  sed + awk <200K (slack 2.0 binaries), and most of
the other shell tools are similarly small.  Leaving out development
stuff, gnu-emacs, etc. may make sense in some cases, but with disk
space as cheap as it's gotten the minimal savings from omitting basic
utilities is hardly worth the inconvenience this will almost certainly
cause the user in the long run, IMHO.

-- alex

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Daniel Zappala)
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems,comp.os.linux.admin
Subject: Re: Mystery Chip...AMD
Date: 7 Oct 1994 17:35:24 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Alexandra Griffin) writes:
> In article <[email-masked]>, Daniel Zappala <[email-masked]> wrote:
> >
> >In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Sam Brown) writes:
> >
> >I have an AMD 486DX-40.  Any news on an add-in from AMD to turn this into a
> >486DX2-80, or do I need to buy a whole new chip?
> 
> Nope, sorry... the dx/2 chips are different inside (have a PLL circuit
> to double their on-chip clock, and extra interface logic to hook up to
> the half-speed external bus), and of course you can't very well modify
> a silicon die after it's been made!
> 

But doesn't Intel sell a chip that upgrades a 486DX-33 into a 486DX2-66?
How do they manage that?

Daniel

------------------------------

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End of Linux-Misc Digest
******************************