Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #907
From: Digestifier <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 94 15:13:28 EDT

Linux-Misc Digest #907, Volume #2                 Sun, 9 Oct 94 15:13:28 EDT

Contents:
  Re: Yggdrasil Fall '94 Linux CD-ROM (Jeff Kesselman)
  Re: Dialup problem (Stinger)
  xclk.gz and SMODE (Babak Forutanpour)
  Re: Curious: Why is Linux DOOM so much slower than DOS doom (M. K. Shenk)
  Help! NCR 53c810 bootproblems after installing (Rolf Larsen)
  POLS ON THE NET ([email-masked])
  Second Monitor (Mono) under X11 ? (Christoph Aichmayr)
  Re: Word (Text) processors for Linux? (Grant Edwards)
  Re: Flame on the attitude of Linux towards GCC development (Richard L. Goerwitz)
  Re: Maple V for linux! (wong tsang han)
  Re: Yggdrasil Linux Plug and Play CD ver1.1 ? (Jeff Kesselman)
  Re: Dialup problem (Timothy Murphy)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Jeff Kesselman)
Subject: Re: Yggdrasil Fall '94 Linux CD-ROM
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 18:56:22 GMT

Hi:

You've told us nothing abotu either the equiptment you are runnign or the 
boot up messages you see.  if you can give these to us, someone can 
probobly help you.

Ciao

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Stinger)
Subject: Re: Dialup problem
Date: 9 Oct 1994 11:22:06 +0100
Reply-To: [email-masked]

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Rob Janssen) wrote:

> Use my special program for the ZyXEL, available from sunsite in directory
> /pub/linux/system/Serial.
> For me it works all the time.  Plus you can use it as a FAX and an answering
> machine as well...

You didn't tell me the name, but I guess you meant the ZyXEL-1.4* archive.

I've been playing with it about 10 mins now, and I can't get it to answer
the phone. I'm trying to configure the thing from remote though, so there
might be some errors at the console which I obviously can't see. :)

Are there any faq's available btw?

-- 
->Stinger<-

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Babak Forutanpour)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
Subject: xclk.gz and SMODE
Date: 7 Oct 1994 10:00:44 -0700

Im trying to follow Vesku's fix (diamond.faq) for the Diamond Stealth
VRAM and cannot find the file xclk.gz on any of the sites. I also
need the DOS program SMODE that comes with the purchase of a 
Diamond card. 

Any help would be much appreciated. 

If anyone has a Diamond Stealth VRAM working on a NEC 3V, please
write me. 
-- 
=o   Bob               <8-)  Pet Shop Bob          [-)  FrankenBob        
;-)  Pirate Bob         !-)  Flirting Bob          %-)  Contact Bob 
@-)  Martian Bob        ?-)  School Bob            X-)  Malcolm Bob

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (M. K. Shenk)
Subject: Re: Curious: Why is Linux DOOM so much slower than DOS doom
Date: 4 Oct 1994 23:27:45 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
Thomas Gschwind <[email-masked]> wrote:
>Sujat Jamil ([email-masked]) wrote:
>: I'd really like to know why does Linux DOOM run significantly slower
>: on Linux than it does on DOS for the same machine.  Is it because it

This is not true for all machines.  If you have a fast enough video card
and enough memory that X+Doom is not a burden, and not much else running,
the fact that you are using the accel functions of the card as opposed to
using it as a dumb frame buffer in DOS will offset the X overhead.  At
least it does on my system--Linux doom is faster and smoother on it than
under DOS.  

>: has to go through multiple layers of X and Linux?  I've also played it
>: on a SGI workstation, where it is reasonably fast.  Of course, the
>: machine also had a 150 MHz MIPS processor.  Is there any way to
>: make doom run faster on Linux besides getting a faster machine?

Just buy a faster video card.  A DRAM s3 card ought to be enough.  

>Kill everything, you do not need and if this is still to slow,
>than try renicing it, see man nice.

This too... using top and renicing any other piggy processes helps a lot.

------------------------------

From: Rolf Larsen
Subject: Help! NCR 53c810 bootproblems after installing
Date: 9 Oct 1994 13:21:34 GMT

I use a Install bootdisk with an updated NCR boot image which works well.
When I installs Linux, I use custom disks ncr1 & ncr2. When these disks are installed I get
an error message wich tells me that there are maybe missing som files on the disks, but I chose to continue,
and everything seems to work well. (I know that the filesizes at the disk is a bit different than what
displays in ncrdisc1 & ncrdisc2, but i just asume that there's maybe an difference in the way that unix and dos counts bytes..)

Anyhow, in the setup I choose to not install scsi & ide files located in a1, but instead i select ncr later on.

When setup makes a bootup floppy, it seems to take to short time to make it, and it will not work when i try to boot on it either. 
If I include scsi or ide support from disk a1, then the bootdisk that setup makes will boot, but the system will not be able to connect
to my scsi drives.

My conclusion is that i either do something wrong, or that i am missing som files. Anyone that can give me som help here?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Rolf Larsen     Digital Partner
[email-masked]   Internet Provider
PMD Data a.s    Tel: +47 371 51644
Postb. 181      Fax: +47 371 51900
4951 RISOR      Mob: 942 94005

------------------------------

From: [email-masked]
Subject: POLS ON THE NET
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 94 14:41:21 -0700

Message # 20170 has been read

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Christoph Aichmayr)
Subject: Second Monitor (Mono) under X11 ?
Date: 9 Oct 1994 16:23:54 GMT

Hi to all!

Does anybody has an idea how to setup a second (Mono) Monitor to use under X11 with a normal SVGA
Monitor. I have a Mono Graphics Adapter and a Tseng ET4000, and I want to use both at the
same time. I read hundreds of FAQ and howto and README, no luck.

I use XF86_SVGA X11R6. I know a friend of mine did this a few month ago, but he lost his
Xconfig-File!
Anyone any sloutions, suggestions ?

Thanx a lot

ac_

Email: [email-masked]
Graz, Austria, Europe, Planet World, Milky Way, ....

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.unix.questions
From: [email-masked] (Grant Edwards)
Subject: Re: Word (Text) processors for Linux?
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 1994 15:41:24 GMT

Richard L. Goerwitz ([email-masked]) wrote:

: As has been noted here by others, though, Unix doesn't even have the few
: tools that Windows does:  Just a few hacked pieces of software done by
: non-US groups who dispair of US engineers ever bothering with their
: languages or scripts :-).

Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your point of view) that's
how software development in the Unix community works.  If somebody
needs a tool that does X, they write a tool that does X.  If somebody
else likes it they might use it, if not, they don't.  The author is
usually trying to solve a particular problem and not to provide a
generic, universal program (emacs aside).

If I have no use for non-latin alphabets, it's not efficient use of my
(or my employer's) time for me to add support for them to my program.

--
Grant Edwards                                 |Yow!  my NOSE is NUMB!
Rosemount Inc.                                |
                                              |
[email-masked]                          |

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help,comp.os.linux.development
From: [email-masked] (Richard L. Goerwitz)
Subject: Re: Flame on the attitude of Linux towards GCC development
Reply-To: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 20:24:30 GMT

[email-masked] (Xiaojun Zhu) writes:
>
>Think about the scenario, when linus announced his first release of
>linux and no body wanted to try that out? You know the answer,
>don't you?

I think if everyone beta tested every piece of software to come out,
no one would every get any work done.  We all select the stuff that
is most important to us, and try to help out as best we can.  I'm
currently working hard to help get kinks out of DOSEMU, which I think
is a worthwhile project.  It takes a lot of time, and I have to weed
through a lot of debugging output and ftp patches every couple of days
(plus the ones the authors want me to try out).

I simply could not do this for every piece of software.

-- 

   -Richard L. Goerwitz              [email-masked]
   [email-masked]          rutgers!oddjob!ellis!goer

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (wong tsang han)
Subject: Re: Maple V for linux!
Date: 5 Oct 1994 02:50:45 GMT

William Huang ([email-masked]) wrote:
: In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (NightHawk) writes:
: !William Huang ([email-masked]) wrote:
: !: In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Shannon Hendrix) writes:
: !: [email-masked] (Scott Weinstein) writes:
: !: !
: !
: !: I'll be really impressed when they get Matlab working for Linux.
: !
: !Matlab was ported to Linux more than a year ago in Mar. 1993. But for
: !whatever reason, it was not released. Please send emails to 
: [email-masked].
: !
: !Please don't send emails to me.
: !
: !Thanks.
: !
: !
: !NH

: Knowing mathworks, they're probably perfecting their liscense
: manager for Linux, so that if you tried to violate their liscence,
: your SCSI disk drive head will gouge the magnetic media.

--
Why do you want to use Matlab, when you can have Octave for free!!

[*]----------------------------------[*]---------------------------------[*]
 | Wong Tsang Han                     |                                   |
 | National University of Singapore   |                                   |
 | e-mail: [email-masked]       |                                   |
[*]----------------------------------[*]---------------------------------[*]
                Only a few good things in Life comes free,
                          Linux is one of them.

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Jeff Kesselman)
Subject: Re: Yggdrasil Linux Plug and Play CD ver1.1 ?
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 19:32:11 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, Paul Bash <[email-masked]> wrote:
>In article <[email-masked]>,
>Jeff Kesselman <[email-masked]> wrote:
>>
>>>My comments were constructive and to the point. Hopefully Yggdrasil will 
>>>read these and others here and take more care the next time. In the meantime
>>>the Slackware distributions I've used have always worked perfectly and give
>>>much finer control over the install process. Jan asked if there was a better
>>>CD out there and I told him.
>>>
>>
>>Umm, I hate to diagree with you, but you didn't start out by saying 'In 
>>response to your asking if there are other CD-ROMS available...'
>>Rather if you look above, you will see that your opening reads:
>>  "Having worked with both, the obvious solution to the yygdrasil problem 
>>   is..."
>>I think it is QUITE reasonable to read that as a response to the question
>>  "Is there a solution to the above problem?"
>>Said problem having been deleted.  Can you now perhapse see why the 
>>deletion annoyed me?
>>
>
>To the rest of this group:  
>-------------------------
>
>Sorry this has descended into a flame war. I had a bad day too and having this 
>snit publicly jump on my case, trying to put me down, solely because I expressed
>a negative opinion about his current favorite toy, was more than I chose to 
>take. 
>
>I got onto this topic because of major install problems I was having with 
>Yggdrasil Fall 94 and hoped I was just missing something. Reading through the
>Linux newsgroups a common refrain emerged (and I paraphrase): "I'm having
>major problems with the Yggdrasil install. After attempting x [where x > 1] 
>installs, I still don't have this thing figured out...".

Hmm. Since you've been kind enough to give us your problems, this 'snit' 
will attempt to help you.  (That IS why you are giving us this list, right?)

>
>Yggdrasil's install process would be a thing of beauty, and a major reason to 
>buy the product, IF IT WORKED. Unfortunately, it is inflexible and bug ridden.
>It tries to do too much automatically and holds no options for recovering when
>things don't work. Here are some examples:
>
>  1) At the beginning of the install process, you are prompted
>     for the disk device to partition. I have two SCSI drives attached
>     to an Adaptec 1542B controller. When I attempt to say /dev/sda it 
>     says 
>
>             FATAL ERROR: Bad logical partition
>               Press any key to exit fdisk
>
>     Funny, Slackware, OS/2 and DOS (all installed on the same disk) don't 
>     see any problems. I have no other option except skipping the disk partition
>     phase of the install.

I'm honestly not sure on this one, but I seem to recalll there being a 
patch bandied about thats needed for this particular controlelr to run 
two drives?? (Someone with more experience with Adpatecs feel free to jump 
in.)  I don't have any experiene with this aprticualr conmtroller, I'm 
afraid. So I can't be too much help here.  Its certainly possible that 
there are dfifferent versions of the kernel on your different 
distributions.  Which Yygdrasil are you running?  The latest (fall94) has 
a dos-callback fallback that should get you up and runing no matter what, 
if DOS can see your drives.  Its not recommended as a permenant solution 
due to speed issues (thunking and droping to BIOS is slow) BUT it shoudl 
get you up so you cn apply patches where necessary....

>
>  2) Once I've selected the partition I want to install into, the install
>     process insists on formatting and verifying all 257MB of it. No matter
>     if it is the 1st install or the 10th install, I'm still forced to wait
>     the 10 minutes or so it takes to analyze the partition even though I know
>     it doesn't need it. Aaaarrrggggh. 

Hmm.  I find 10 minutes somewhat insignificant in terms of the time it 
takes me to copy files, etc.
To a degree, this is the 'comfort' v. 'sportiness' factor mentioedn by 
the Linux Journel.  By making assumptions about what you want to do in 
the general case, it eases the use by inexperienced people at the expense 
of some speed.  If you really iknwo what you are doing and don't need 
this stuff, you can always log in as root and only run the scripts you 
need. (Not thatI recommend this.  Personally, if you don't want the 
comfort level then yes, buy the sportscar! ;)  )

>
>  3) When installing optional products, you have almost _no_ flexibility in
>     chosing what code will be installed. Sure, you can install major pieces
>     seperately, but what if I don't want to do X development, nor load server
>     versions for 20 or 30 different video cards when I only have one in my 
>     system? I'm given no option. I must load all 73MB on my system then 
>     manually delete those parts I don't need (assuming I even know what I can
>     delete without hosing the entire X server).

Most people have no idea what is required in an X window system.  Again, 
Ild say you are lookign for sport performance out of a sedan.  Myself, I 
just delete stuff i don't need as I need the room.  It works for me.

>
>  4) When attempting to auto-detect my modem and mouse, the install process
>     detected the mouse on the port where my modem is attached and detected no
>     modem _at all_. Even though Linux has been happily using this modem and
>     mouse for the last year. The result was that I'm thrown onto the X desktop
>     with no mouse but fvwm waiting for me to click the mouse button to indicate
>     where I want it to place the Control Panel window. I'm given absolutely
>     no chance to override what the install process detected. I have to 
>     reboot the system, manually edit the Xconfig file, and start again. Good
>     thing I know where to find the Xconfig file. Many newcomers wouldn't. Nice.

Huh?  Autodetect?  MY fall94 xinit runs a script that specificly asks me 
what mouse I'm using.  (There WAS a script problem in Summer94 specificly 
with the ps/2 mouse, but it was fixed in Fall94).  This does not sound 
ANYTHING like the Yygdrasil I have (either Summer94 OR fall94).  If we 
ARE runni9gn the same version,l can only assume you didn't follow the 
directions, since I did and got totally different behavior. 

>    
>Not exactly "Plug and Play", I'd say.

Not for you.  I think how ever you have proved your earlier 'hard-on' 
point quite nicely.  Ok.  it isn't specificly what you want/need, that 
hardly makes it the anti-christ. It WAS exactly what i wanted/needed as 
a busy software engineer without a lot of time to fiddle with my home 
installation.

Slackware, none of these were problems. The install process isn't as 
>flashy but, dammit, it doesn't need to be. Its an _install_ process for God's 
>sake! If I'm lucky, I'll never have to see it again.
>
>I installed a working Slackware Linux distribution with GNU C, emacs, man 
>pages and a VGA X server on my laptop with an 80MB disk (AND that was with a 
>5MB swap file and 11MB free disk space left over!). The only way that could 
>ever be done is by providing the installation flexibility that Slackware does.
>With the current Yggdrasil state of affairs, this installation would be next
>to impossible to do. 

With flexability comes choices, and a need for greater knowledge. Again, 
we are talkign about differen't products for different kinds of users.
Myself, I have the knowledge, but not the TIME to go through a whoel host 
of choices. For me, easy, automated, and complete was alot more 
important then a high degree of flexability on teh install.  I can 
perfectly capable and happy to strip stuff later as the need arises.  
(FRankly, i have SO much room left over on my 300meg SCSI so far, that 
I don't expect to have to do that for quite awhile.  'Course I didn't 
install EVERYTHING I coudl fomr Yygdrasil, just the deleopment and 
system stuff 'cause thats all I intedn to do with my machine.  That was 
enough install flexabiltiy for me.)

>     
>My experience with Yggdrasil is that Unix running from a CD-ROM is an 
>interesting curiosity but when I want real work done I don't have time to 
>figure out what hoops I have to jump through to get rid of that damn CD-ROM
>or cram those many megabytes of software into my few megabytes of disk space.

Funny thing is, I (and Yygdrasil 's docs) kind of agree with you.  The 
cd-rom links serve 2 (and only 2 purposes).  
1: To allow people to get a peek at what UNIX is about (admittedly 
slowly) before doing the install. As you say, for 'curiousity'.
2: To allow access to uninstalled packages to 'look them over'.  I find 
this extreamly valuable.  I can run a toll first to see what it does, and 
then do an install_package on it if I want it.

By the way, the hoops you have to jump through to 'get rid of that damn 
cd-rom' are:
        umount /dev/system_cd
And it all goes away.

>Instead, I look for solid and dependable software and Slackware has always
>provided that to me, both in terms of the clean, flexible installation process
>and Patrick's choices of stable software versions to include in his releases.

Great! I'm glad you found a distribution that meets YOUR needs.

>
>I wasted $35 on the Yggdrasil Fall 94 CD-ROM that I will never use.

I have a feeling that, if you are that unhappy, and you bought it 
directly from yygdrasil theyw ill probobly refund your money.  Note that 
I don't work for them, and certainly don't speak with them, but I've 
found them to be genuinely (if a bit ineptly) concerned abotu their users.
Have you called them and asked?  (Don't give me that 900 number nonsense, 
please, thier regular order number is in the back of the manual.)

> That won't
>keep me from buying Yggdrasil in the future, particularly when they get their
>install problems worked out, but it will make me more careful to check here
>before I plunk down my cash.

Frankly, i don't thin kyou should.  Your particualr list of problems have 
amde me fully understand what the author in the Linux JOurnal meant by 
his charcterization of yygdrasil v. Slackware.  It sure soudsn to me like 
you are the wrong audience for Yygdrasil, an the right one for 
Slackware.  Stick to what works for you.

>
>(If you aren't interested in Jeff and I bitching at each other, please press
>"n" now) 
>
>Back to Jeff's comments:
>------------------------
>
>Hmmm. You start out conciliatory, but...
>
>I think its safe to say we disagree about the relative worth of the Yggdrasil
>Fall 94 CD-ROM. Accept that. Try being constructive and telling the group what
>is so great about Fall 94 instead of sarcastically attacking me for relating 
>my negative experience with the product. 

I didn't intend  to attack you for your negative experiences.  I'm 
geniunely sorry if it came off that way., What I WAS attacking (to use 
your term) was  a diatribe without specifics, in response to a request 
for help.  Now that you have given me some specifics of your problems, i 
can understand where you are comign from, and why (for the mosty part) 
your experiences are different then mine.  I hope the above responses 
helped to sort it out.

>
>I don't think anyone else here cares to watch us battle this out in public. 
>This has _nothing_ to do with Yggdrasil's Fall 94 CD-ROM release. 

Actually it does.  We have produced, IMO, finally some good solid points 
on why the Yygdrasil releas emight be wrong (or right) for someone.  Same 
thign for Slackware, though less so, since I don't have your experience 
with that particualr release.

>We _could_ start another thread about "Acceptable posting practices according 
>to Jeff", but that's a topic for another newsgroup, not comp.os.linux.misc. 
>If you do find an alternate newsgroup, particularly one that gives a damn, 
>make sure and let me know. I'll come over and join the thread. 
>
>Better yet, just take it to email.
I give up. Why didn't YOU?

This is kind of childish debate tactics (here comes the return-flame..)
Paul, and beneath your otherwise very intellegent comments above. Lets try
to respect each others intelligences as computer professionals, shall we? 

[P.S.  To all. Paul is right in a sense.  I think our discussion has 
produced some good, solid comments on why the various releases might or 
might not be good for a specific person, but beyond this its probobly 
pointless.  Unless Paul brings up more specific comments on the merits of 
the Yygdrasil release that I think really need another person's 
perspective to balance, Ill kill this thread in public.  Thanks for your 
patience.]

>
>Thanks. 

Your Welcome.

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Timothy Murphy)
Subject: Re: Dialup problem
Date: 9 Oct 1994 16:51:22 +0100

[email-masked] (Stinger) writes:

>> Use my special program for the ZyXEL, available from sunsite in directory
>> /pub/linux/system/Serial.
>> For me it works all the time.  Plus you can use it as a FAX and an answering
>> machine as well...

>You didn't tell me the name, but I guess you meant the ZyXEL-1.4* archive.

>I've been playing with it about 10 mins now, and I can't get it to answer
>the phone. I'm trying to configure the thing from remote though, so there
>might be some errors at the console which I obviously can't see. :)

I looked at this too (I have a ZyXEL modem)
but decided the documentation was too sparse for comfort ...

IMHO, life's too short to spend hours trying to work out
how you are meant to use programs.
I'm using mgetty which is well-documented and works perfectly for me.

-- 
Timothy Murphy  
e-mail: [email-masked]
tel: +353-1-2842366
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland

------------------------------

** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **

The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:

    Internet: [email-masked]

You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.misc) via:

    Internet: [email-masked]

Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
    nic.funet.fi				pub/OS/Linux
    tsx-11.mit.edu				pub/linux
    sunsite.unc.edu				pub/Linux

End of Linux-Misc Digest
******************************