Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #963
From: Digestifier <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 94 04:13:16 EDT

Linux-Misc Digest #963, Volume #2                Tue, 18 Oct 94 04:13:16 EDT

Contents:
  Re: sony CDU33A / DMA / IRQ (Andy Bailey)
  Re: Weakest Linux Box (Christopher M. May)
  programming each pixel of a vga/ega screen in Linux (Pritish Shah)
  Re: nedit for Linux? (C. Chan)
  Re: SCO vs Linux (Lewis Tanzos)
  Re: Newbies? (was Re: Hmmm) (Starblood)
  Re: Word (Text) processors for Linux? (READ THIS!) (Byron A Jeff)
  Re: getty/uugetty problems in slackware (BUG REPORT) (Jay Jones)
  Re: Yggdrasil Fall 1994: buyers be aware (Roger Bicknell)
  Word processor design/separate versions (Michael Babcock)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: sony CDU33A / DMA / IRQ
From: [email-masked] (Andy Bailey)
Date: 17 Oct 94 11:33:48 EDT

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Rasta Smurf) writes:
> In article <[email-masked]>,
> [email-masked] ([email-masked]) wrote:
>> does the current kernel provide irq/dma support for the sony cdu-33a CD? 
>> i know it supports access via a polling driver but can find no ifo 
>> regarding the interupt driven access.

If you'll edit linux/drivers/block/cdu31a.c, you can include IRQ support. You
dont want DMA on a doublespeed drive though.

>> 
>> thanks,
>> taine
>> 
> 
> I've been having problems with this drive under Linux. I can
> install it fine from CD, but once I'm up and running I'm unable to read
> a CD or change directory to the drive. Thinking of going SCSI. Hope you
> can figure out what's wrong or maybe there's a kind soul who can provide
> the answer.
   The stock kernel on your system after an installation does not include
support for the cdu31a or 33a. You'll need to recompile your kernel to include
cdu31a and is9660 support.

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Christopher M. May)
Subject: Re: Weakest Linux Box
Date: 13 Oct 1994 07:06:36 GMT

: To H.J.:  Go buy a 386DX/40.  I got one for $90 a while back, and it is 
: *so* much faster.  The SX/16 board now waits to replace a dead 286.  (And 
: the cycle begins again...)

Wouldn't a 486SLC33Mhz board be faster?  Upgradeability is 
not really possible on these though :(.

These boards are cheap, around $100.

--

-Chris May, Computer Science, University of MA, Amherst
-       Technical Assistant, P.C. Maintenance Lab

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Pritish Shah)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help,comp.os.linux.development
Subject: programming each pixel of a vga/ega screen in Linux
Date: 17 Oct 1994 22:22:08 GMT

Hello all, 

I am trying to write a display system on Linux that will display 
different messages on the vga/ega screen using different fonts and 
different attributes. I was informed that there might be something called 
getpixel/putpixel function that could work for the screen. 

Any help would be appreciated. This is for my project at school.

Pritish

--

**********************************************************************
Pritish M Shah                   * Contact:      Phone 1-313-998-6700
#include <standard_disclaimer.h> *               Fax   1-313-998-6105 
http://www.cic.net/~pritish/     *               email [email-masked]

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (C. Chan)
Subject: Re: nedit for Linux?
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 1994 01:41:38 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, Marc Fraioli <[email-masked]> wrote:
>In article [email-masked],  [email-masked] (Brian Lane) writes:
>>Frank Conway ([email-masked]) wrote:
>>: I have recently dicovered an editor for my Sun called nedit.
>>: Source code is available.  I really like this editor, and
>>: will be porting it to Linux for home use.
>>
>>: Has anyone already done this?  If so, I won't waste my time.
>>
>>
>>  NEdit's home site is ftp.fnal.gov in /pub/nedit/v3_1
>>
>>  in the contrib directory is a Makefile.linux, so it's already been 
>>done(pretty trivial).
>>
>>  The catch is that it needs Motif, which isn't free. Anyone want to 
>>tackle a free Motif compatible X library?
>>
>Someone is already doing it.  It's in the Linux Projects FAQ, and I
>think it's called the Xu lib and Widget set or something similar.  In
>the interim, how about somebody who has Motif for Linux making a static
>binary of nedit like was done for Mosaic?  Any volunteers?
>
>---
>Marc Fraioli         | "They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist- " 
>[email-masked]         |    - Last words of Union General John Sedgwick,
>                     |    Battle of Spotsylvania Court House, U.S. Civil War
>
>
I have done so on LINUX 1.1.45 with Motif 1.2.4a from ACC,
nedit 3.1, statically. The compile went w/o a hitch.

According to the license agreement, I am allowed to distribute
programs which are statically linked to the Motif libs, but
not of course the libs themselves.

Please don't email me asking for the nedit binaries. I thought
someone had already uploaded a Linux binary of nedit to fnal
already. If not, I'll ftp my binary over into the incoming
directory, and you can retrieve it from there.

Nedit is cool, much friendlier than emacs for beginners, speedier
in loading up, and pretty customizable. By the way, the N stands
for Nirvana.

On a related note: any high energy physicists out there who use
the CERN libraries and apps? I want to port PAW++ (a data analysis
program) to Linux, but am stymied by having to wade through
the conversion from Fortran and its CERN extensions. Some Russian
dudes have ported PAWX11 which doesn't use Motif widgets, so
I know it can be done.

-- 
C. Chan <[email-masked]> | " Proud to be a chordate! "

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Lewis Tanzos)
Subject: Re: SCO vs Linux
Date: 17 Oct 1994 22:42:44 GMT

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (RNA) writes:
>From a performance point of view, which has more going for it?

Got me.

>What if you could get SCO for free?

I'd still get Linux, unless SCO released the source.
--
Lewis Tanzos - [email-masked] - [email-masked]

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Starblood)
Crossposted-To: alt.fan.linus-torvalds
Subject: Re: Newbies? (was Re: Hmmm)
Date: 13 Oct 1994 07:07:29 GMT

Tim Cutts ([email-masked]) wrote:
: [email-masked] (Starblood) writes:

: >(ccnet.ccnet.com>
: >Organization: Brussels Free Universities (VUB/ULB), Belgium
: >Distribution: 

: >What are you guys talking about?? I think nobody will beat me. My first
: >linux system will probably be Slackware 5.0. That will probably be the
: >first release that supports the IBM PS/2 architecture :(.

: Well, look on the bright side.  You're using the only architecture
                                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: that'll run OS/2 properly, so fair's fair.  :-)
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

WHAT??? OS/2 running properly on PS/2 architecture?? When?? Who told you
that??
I can't seem to run it on my PS/2!!

--
  _
  \ \
   \ \_____________________________
    (     -------                  | --------------------------------------
   (     (       )    _____________| -----          Tourwe Tom            |
  (      (       )  /                    |                                |
 (        ------- /                      |  2nd year of Computer Science  |
 |        -------                        |             at the             |
 |        |                              |  FREE UNIVERSITY OF BRUSSELS   |
 |        |                              |                                |
 |        |                              |  e-mail: [email-masked] |
 |________|                              |________________________________|

``It's not a case of telling the truth
  Some lines just fit the situation
  Call me a liar ...
  You would anyway..''

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Byron A Jeff)
Subject: Re: Word (Text) processors for Linux? (READ THIS!)
Date: 18 Oct 1994 00:00:41 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
Eric Jeschke <[email-masked]> wrote:
[email-masked] (Byron A Jeff) writes:
-:Because of the audience. Typical conversation.
-
-:(NU: Newbie User, LE: Linux Enthusiast)
-
-:Senario after a brand new Linux installation on NU machine.
-
-:LE: See. With Linux you can have multiple users, multiple tasks, all at the
-:    same time.
-:NU: Ok where is the Wordprocessor?
-
-LE: Linux has its own wordprocessor "foo".  See you just have to
-learn this completely new wordprocessor under this completely new
-operating system.
-
-NU: But, I'm used to MS Word.  I don't want to learn a completely
-new word processor.  Take all this off my machine!!

I've dealt with that also. However with the other tools (editors, spreadsheets
and the like) that wasn't the reaction I got out of most folks.

I still contend that if there is a native wordprocessor and it's simple
(point and click / function key interface) that most folks won't put up
too much of a complaint. At least I'm hoping ;-)

-
====================================================================
-
-Note: I have nothing against writing a native wordprocessor for Linux.
-Great idea, go for it.
-
-I just think that a DOS/Windows person is not going to be converted
-to Linux by the fact that it has a new, minimally functional word processor.
-As many people have pointed out, there are already several choices
-(ez, doc, tex, groff, iBCS/*) for word processing/typesetting
-under Linux.  What are you creating that is going to make Linux more
-attractive to DOS refugees?

Sure it will. I deal with a lot of people that use Wordprocessors. Frankly
most don't use but 10% of the features. If we can put those 10% of the features
plus another 5% or so (the minimally functional) then current Wordprocessor
users will find it useful and therefore attractive.

The key point is that not having it makes Linux unattractive. I've heard 
over and over again that "Linux is just an OS, it has no applications."
And the cover for emulation is "I can can just run it native under XXX,
why should I switch?" A Wordprocessor is the type of tool that can be
shown as a Linux tool. And because of the underlaying OS you'll automatically
get new features like remote WP and printing and the like.

-
-If the answer is "nothing" then just admit: I want a text mode native
-wordprocessor for Linux users.

The answer is more than nothing. I do want it. Sometimes I need to create
a document with minimal formatting very quickly. Since I don't use LaTeX
enough to keep everything current I would find it simpler to just run
a simple wordprocessor and bang it out.

-
-If and when wine delivers and you can run a Windows wordprocessor under
-Linux--THAT's when you will have a nicely baited hook for DOS fishies...

It's not a baited hook. You'll have to find another reason to get the
user to convert. The fact that it runs their Windows applications just
keeps them from running away.

BAJ
-- 
Another random extraction from the mental bit stream of...
Byron A. Jeff - PhD student operating in parallel - And Using Linux!
Georgia Tech, Atlanta GA 30332   Internet: [email-masked]

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Jay Jones)
Subject: Re: getty/uugetty problems in slackware (BUG REPORT)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 1994 23:06:52 GMT

Joe Rhett ([email-masked]) wrote:
: A _LOT_ of people who get Slackware complain about not getting 
: the getty_ps package to work correctly. I fought it round and round,
: until I got the source code, and found these things...

I found the same information.  Actually I cam accross another strange 
thing.  Once I got my uugetty configured right and working properly, I
removed the -D??? and the program stopped working!  It will monitor the
modem, answer when called, but as soon as it gets the CD it drops the
TR line and re-sets itsself!  The ONLY way that I have been able to get
it to continue to work is to leave a -D010 parameter on it (Minimal
debug, but still creates ever growing log files).  Anyone have any clues
to resolve this?

Jay

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Roger Bicknell)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
Subject: Re: Yggdrasil Fall 1994: buyers be aware
Date: 15 Oct 1994 12:49:29 -0700

In <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Adam J. Richter) writes:

>In article <[email-masked]>,
>Roger Bicknell <[email-masked]> wrote:
::I downloaded the revB vmlinux from ftp.yggdrasil.com and
::RAWRITE'ed it to a floppy. I took this home and booted
::from it. It did find my sony cdu33a cdrom. But the root
::drive will not give me permission to write ANYTHING to it,
::even as 'root' user - thus all fails.

:       The boot floppy image is bootflpy-3.5-720k, not vmlinux.
:That is why you failed to boot linux.  Also note, you must use a
:low density boot floppy.  We do provide copies of the new boot
:floppies for free, by the way.

        Wonderful. I will try this. 

:       In the future, rather than jumping to the conclusion that
:you have found an Yggdrasil bug and posting a long rant devoid
:of technical details like specific error messages, you might want to ask
:"am I doing something wrong?"  If you think you have found a
:bug, then report it to us (as chapter 10 of the manual explains,
:we do not charge people to report bugs).

        Sorry about that. I did not jump to any such conclusion; and I
had _always_ thought that it was *I* who was doing something wrong. Aside
from the revA problem with the cdrom, I thought that it was *my* ignorance
that was the problem. I _do_ appreciate every little bit of the help that
you and all others can provide here, and I never meant to cast aspersions
against Yggdrasil (I specifically referred to "Linux").

        While I _am_ frustrated with the attempts to get this all up and
running, my "rant" was only meant in a humourous way. I'm disappointed
that wasn't perceived that way. <sigh>

        Also, I _do_ think that Yggdrasil has offered a wonderful product
(ie. massive offering and a good price) and I have shown it around at
work. I will be picking up another copy for a work mate, and we are currently
considering purchasing another two copies for our lab pcs (depending upon
my success with my home unit ;) My plan all along was to use this experience
to teach myself (and our team at work) more about the intricacies of Unix -
so I had kept all this in mind [the difficulties in installing a pd os]
when coosing Linux. 

        Thanks for your help (now and in the future ;)

-r. "oh no! you've gone and raised my hopes again!" bickles

-- 
[email-masked] (Roger Bicknell)

Remember: "Guns don't kill people and GNU is Not Unix."  =]

------------------------------

From: [email-masked] (Michael Babcock)
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.questions,comp.software.international
Subject: Word processor design/separate versions
Date: 17 Oct 1994 18:10:49 -0600

My opinion is that we shouldn't separate it into different projects,
but we absolutely should modularize it. I don't think we need a
totally separate X and text version. Most code would be the same, just
the display and input would be different. (This may be quite a bit
though I guess ).

Basically, the X version would strive for perfect WYSIWYG and the text
display module could only approximate this. As for multi-lingual display
in text mode, this too could just be seen as: text-mode doesn't give
as good of approximation as X. There is also talk of unicode support
for the linux console. This could be taken advantage of if needed, but
of course wouldn't be required.

In the same way, we don't need separate English and multi-lingual
versions.  As I said, I don't think it is too hard to have the
flexibility for multi-language support from the beginning. We don't
expect you to get it all working, just make sure WE can do it without
writing a WP from scratch.  Richard already mentioned the issues
involved in this, and they're not that big a deal. As he and I said,
just using good programming techniques and you will naturally be doing
the right thing.

For example, you wouldn't just use 2 bits for character attributes
'cause you KNEW you were only going to have bold and/or italic chars.
Then when you wanted underline you have to rewrite a bunch if you made
lots of assumptions on this. So you may want to add a "language"
attribute or better just make attributes easily extendable.

I'd really like to hear some discussion about the overall design of a
word processor. I feel out of my league here -- never had any formal
education that seems to apply (have only taken 3 semesters of CS
courses so far). So a lot of my questions are probably naive, but to
get some talk going here are some random thoughts:

How is a document structured? It has pages and various objects on
them.  Text. Tables. Pictures. Movies... Obviously to be manageable we
have to use some OO techniques so each object knows what to do with
itself. If we spend all the time getting movies to work, we just are
wasting our time.  Let those who want to add movies do it, but make it
easy to add. So a document is some kind of container. I believe andrew
does something like that. The objects have some kind of position (x,y)
on the page but the order they are listed doesn't seem to matter.
Maybe we have to worry about z-order though -- different layers. Maybe
complicated.

But I wonder if this is totally wrong. Pages are okay when you are
designing a couple page brochure, but when I write a document I don't
want to worry about separate pages. I just want it to flow, and then
the program separates it into pages automatically. How would this be
done? Would there be a "main track" that was the text and other stuff
is somehow attached to this like a time-line??? Or is this promoting
text too much as a special object?

But hell we're talking about a "word" processor! Why do we need to
worry about all this? I think we do because people ARE going to want
to use tables and headers.. and to deal with those we may have to deal
with many of these issues, so we might as well make it flexible.

Text format. A WP is really different from an editor. In an editor you
see the end of a line as something with a carriage return. In a wp a
line is a fundamental property of text, regardless of how it is
displayed. Andrew/ez really seem to fall down here in their
"WYSIWYGness". Paragraphs are made up of lines of text (or are they
made up of characters)? The paragraph formatting determines the line
breaks in the paragraph.

There are certain formatting items that are not part of paragraph
formatting but rather span many paragraphs. Microsoft Word (will wash
mouth out later..or wash typing fingers?) has the idea of "section" to
group this stuff together (like number of columns and
headers/footers).

Characters have attributes. But does each character have its own
attribute or do we have some idea of regions? I don't know how to do
this. It is easy think about (and perhaps implement) if each character
is a separate object. Is it necessary to have the document in its most
efficient form in memory? I assume a different format will be used for
disk storage.  We also have to decide whether to limit the document
size to virtual memory or to implement some kind of virtual scheme of
our own so we can edit really huge files. The former is okay probably.

When we insert characters, what attributes do we assign to the
inserted characters? Those of the surrounding text? What about pasting
some formatted text into the document. What formatting should be
retained and what should change to match the surrounding text?
Anything?

The file format. I think most people agree that plain text is best. If
it turns out we need a binary format to get maximum speed it could be
added later I suppose. It's very low priority and I hope it isn't
necessary. I would like to see the main text of the document be
separated from all the control codes/attributes/formatting stuff. This
way, in an emergency, the file would just contain a little junk at the
beginning or end, but the main text could be easily recovered without
access to any WP or special tools.

As for the character set of the file, probably something like UTF-8
would be the best. This will just look like ASCII for people who use
that, but can also represent all of Unicode. It is not as space
efficient as wide chars if you use other languages though. Disk
storage directly in wide chars is probably too radical at this time;
for one thing, there are endian issues.

Printing. Ghostscript supports many printers, so producing postscript
may be adequate. As always, this should be modularized so we can
changed it easily if necessary. I am a little worried about the
multilingual part here though. Can ghostscript handle this?

Multilingual. Okay we've heard about this before. Decouple input...
One thing that confuses me though is languages and fonts. Normally,
you have a font that has all characters in it. But this is not
reasonable for the number of characters in Unicode, and it wouldn't
make sense anyway as different font styles don't have correspondence
among the languages Unicode supports. So we can't just change some
text in a document to ANY font, because some language in that text
might not have support from that font. But we do want to have as much
flexibility as possible in changing fonts.

Also, although there are free fonts available for most languages, most
aren't scalable. This could make programming more awkward, especially
for printing.

Comments on these dumb ramblings? If I'm just too far behind everyone
else, please recommend something I can read to catch up! I don't even
know what subject would cover this type of stuff. Thanks.

Michael Babcock
[email-masked]

------------------------------

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