From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:37 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:37 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id GAA14551 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 06:56:11 +1000 Received: (qmail 22210 invoked by uid 38); 29 Aug 1999 20:56:03 -0000 Resent-Date: 29 Aug 1999 20:56:03 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: dan@telent.net To: mdw@metalab.unc.edu, pjones@metalab.unc.edu Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: LDP web site X-Attribution: dan From: Daniel Barlow Date: 29 Aug 1999 21:51:10 +0100 Message-ID: <87g112ia4h.fsf@tninkpad.telent.net> Lines: 45 User-Agent: Gnus/5.070095 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.95) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: Daniel Barlow Resent-Message-ID: <"ol5p1B.A.haF.i5Zy3"@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/278 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org 0) Matt, many thanks for your timely intervention re: the web pages. 1) Paul Jones, metalab maintainer, has offered to make the LDP site on metalab into a virtual webserver rather than a redirect: http://linuxchix.devin.com/techwriters/1999-Jul_Aug/0226.html Does anyone see any reason why we should not take him up on that? Jim (Pick), this would presumably require you to turn the www.linuxdoc.org record into a CNAME for metalab - would that be OK? 2) He also offered to provide CVS : http://linuxchix.devin.com/techwriters/1999-Jul_Aug/0231.html I don't believe that we should force people to use CVS (after all, not everybody can) but I think that if the option existed - it would make collaborative projects a lot simpler. - by making it simpler for the general community to get SGML source, would make feedback with patches much simpler to produce Nik Clayton, of the FreeBSD Documentation Project, has provided a lot of useful advice on how to arrange such a repository http://linuxchix.devin.com/techwriters/1999-Jul_Aug/0265.html http://linuxchix.devin.com/techwriters/1999-Jul_Aug/0277.html Supposing the existence of a suitable CVS repository, it would be silly not to integrate it with the web site. Is automated submission currently being worked on, and what plans are there to integrate it with CVS? (I guess either the autosubmit could submit into a cvs checkout area, or cvs sould be one of the sources it gathers new documents from) n+1) The techwriters list archive is marvellous. Does anyone know of a service that would archive ldp-discuss in the same way? I'll offer, but haven't yet finished building the machine that I would host it on, so it'll be another two weeks or so if provided by me. -dan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:37 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id IAA15086 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 08:44:38 +1000 Received: (qmail 24028 invoked by uid 38); 29 Aug 1999 22:44:30 -0000 Resent-Date: 29 Aug 1999 22:44:30 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: psj@mustec.eu.org Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 23:41:50 +0100 (GMT) From: P Jenner To: mdw@metalab.unc.edu cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: LDP web site - suggestions Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"dc6ErB.A.T3F.Ofby3"@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/283 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org On the LDP website you ask for suggestions - I have two relatively simple ones: 1) A "What is new on the web site" page (similar to www.gnu.org) so updates can easily be seen 2) The mirroring system would be a lot nicer handled by the linuxdoc.org DNS in a similar way to kernel.org and debian.org. In other words it would be nice to point www.XX.linuxdoc.org at an LDP mirror where XX is the ISO country code (eg. fr, de, gb) nearest the mirror. Paul ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul S Jenner GNU/Linux Advocate E-mail: psj@mustec.eu.org WWW: http://www.mustec.eu.org/~psj/ UNSOLICITED COMMERCIAL E-MAIL IS NOT WELCOME AT THIS ADDRESS ----------------------------------------------------------------------- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:37 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id FAA19680 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 05:06:12 +1000 Received: (qmail 6273 invoked by uid 38); 5 Sep 1999 19:06:05 -0000 Resent-Date: 5 Sep 1999 19:06:05 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: guylhem@victis.oeil.qc.ca Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 20:54:05 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: Matt Welsh Cc: Tim , ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Howto submission bounces Message-ID: <19990905205405.A1350@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: <199909051804.LAA27852@bhikku.CS.Berkeley.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=SLDf9lqlvOQaIe6s; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <199909051804.LAA27852@bhikku.CS.Berkeley.EDU>; from Matt Welsh on Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 11:04:09AM -0700 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/341 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org --SLDf9lqlvOQaIe6s Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 11:04:09AM -0700, Matt Welsh wrote: > > I conacted the list maintainer(s) a week ago and there has been no Lucky man :) > > creation of the submit-howto list and evidently no knowledge of it. > I was under the impression that the correct address was=20 > ldp-submit@lists.linuxdoc.org. Could we have that alias created? I'm still asking for ldp-submit, maybe it will happen soon. --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Anywhere/Partout: guylhem-pager \@/ oeil.qc.ca --SLDf9lqlvOQaIe6s Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN9K8Td+QeWug/qfFAQFi5gP8DCvdln3YFmpBTxQB8dyAQ5zK0ULH+ZPD zaRgn7tmhfK1702gmw+T3DSPfEsQno/f58cztmmLJ4+eo1Oxr5rqDhTPEsP5WXQ7 leATCPfO4XVmNnp2p63ctXr2Sxd0ByZhVo0DrQnC/1cMx713OGuIxGM1QIDz5xKx TP9NuXzbfs0= =neje -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --SLDf9lqlvOQaIe6s-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:37 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id EAA21455 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 04:21:58 +1000 Received: (qmail 32337 invoked by uid 38); 10 Sep 1999 18:20:59 -0000 Resent-Date: 10 Sep 1999 18:20:58 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: poet@linuxports.com Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:30:16 -0700 (PDT) From: "Mr. Poet" X-Sender: jd@crazypenguins.commandprompt.com To: Matt Welsh cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Let the war begin In-Reply-To: <199909101815.LAA10546@mnemosyne.CS.Berkeley.EDU> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/366 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Hello, O.k. I am going to assume you are viewing in Netscape or Lynx both of which do not support style sheets correctly so you will not see the color. I was consiering leaving the LDP logo but it didn't go with the overall design. I will put the old logo back until either I or someone else presents a new logo. Logo Contest anyone? Poet Development in Real Time LinuxPorts - http://www.linuxports.com LDP - http://www.linuxdoc.org Consultants - VAR - Commercial - Networking - WWW/Intranet On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, Matt Welsh wrote: > > This is fine, but let's make the front page look as nice as the original, > at least, so it doesn't look like the LDP is taking a big step back in its > design and scope. Retaining the logo would be a first step. > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:37 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id EAA21493 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 04:28:15 +1000 Received: (qmail 5463 invoked by uid 38); 10 Sep 1999 18:28:06 -0000 Resent-Date: 10 Sep 1999 18:28:06 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: poet@linuxports.com Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:37:34 -0700 (PDT) From: "Mr. Poet" X-Sender: jd@crazypenguins.commandprompt.com To: Matt Welsh cc: "Mr. Poet" , ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org, ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org, recipient list not shown: ; Subject: Re: Let the war begin In-Reply-To: <199909101823.LAA10939@mnemosyne.CS.Berkeley.EDU> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/368 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Hello, I did not design them for IE. I designed them to follow the standards, HTML3/4, CSS1. There are no IE specific functions within the code. I would never do such a thing. That would be bad design. Beyond that although the majority of people that will look at the LDP site will be linux users, you would probably be surprised at how many (good or bad) run IE. 25% of LinuxPorts visistors run IE, We can not just ignore because either A. Their work won't let them run Netscape B. They have not yet learned the "right" ;) way. Poet Development in Real Time LinuxPorts - http://www.linuxports.com LDP - http://www.linuxdoc.org Consultants - VAR - Commercial - Networking - WWW/Intranet On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, Matt Welsh wrote: > > "Mr. Poet" writes: > > Hello, > > > > O.k. I am going to assume you are viewing in Netscape or Lynx both of > > which do not support style sheets correctly so you will not see the color. > > It's probably not good to design these pages for IE, since this is a Linux > site. Please use only standard HTML functions which Netscape and IE both > support. The pages looked fine before, without style sheets. > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:37 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id HAA05334 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 07:42:17 +1000 Received: (qmail 9913 invoked by uid 38); 26 Sep 1999 21:40:08 -0000 Resent-Date: 26 Sep 1999 21:40:08 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: guylhem@terram.oeil.qc.ca Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 21:41:37 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: Matt Welsh Cc: bf347@lafn.org, ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: Help compiling SGML Message-ID: <19990926214137.A2373@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: <199909261757.KAA28873@mnemosyne.CS.Berkeley.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=FCuugMFkClbJLl1L; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <199909261757.KAA28873@mnemosyne.CS.Berkeley.EDU>; from Matt Welsh on Sun, Sep 26, 1999 at 11:00:52AM -0700 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/586 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Content-Length: 0 Lines: 47 --FCuugMFkClbJLl1L Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Sep 26, 1999 at 11:00:52AM -0700, Matt Welsh wrote: > And just to add my two cents on the licensing issue: It's probably best to > recommend a particular license for new authors, but not force people to > adhere to a single license. This only reduces the number of authors willi= ng > to contribute. I think I previously said the same, with different words. DGPL will certainly be our recommended license, however any license following the new manifesto (*) will be accepted. * : current manifesto is a bit old, and should be updated/fixed. David, do you have time to update it, following the ideas you previously gave here ? (we *need* a LDP license guide) --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Save East Timor: http://altern.org/spoirier/timor.html http://www.pst-timor= .org --FCuugMFkClbJLl1L Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN+528d+QeWug/qfFAQFjawQAnu0lfA4/lDK5jPqPvpp5FsarWkVifkKl 9lJYhjKb4xZH1MJ3bM6yIqaYgJRrGw8IkMEg4CImiegXNmbOxxwULXrU2dOEWZXA m0fzIukeWtWlfFUvKFMW2i3+0hG6V8KqZmAscWJLB5SMizfm4fQryy1Pt1AThXS/ CirZEW62MCY= =ChuM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --FCuugMFkClbJLl1L-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:37 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id CAA10713 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 02:01:03 +1000 Received: (qmail 17101 invoked by uid 38); 27 Sep 1999 16:00:54 -0000 Resent-Date: 27 Sep 1999 16:00:54 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: poet@linuxports.com Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:09:17 -0700 (PDT) From: "Mr. Poet" X-Sender: jd@crazypenguins.commandprompt.com To: Matt Welsh cc: "Mr. Poet" , ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: LDP web site, etc. In-Reply-To: <199909271554.IAA19200@mnemosyne.CS.Berkeley.EDU> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/608 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Hello, Something else that may work is if you only allowed html based banners. In other words using only CSS and or tables. It is not going to be as flashy as the normal banners but it still achieves the same basic functionality. Anyway -- food for thought, Poet LinuxPorts - http://www.linuxports.com LDP - http://www.linuxdoc.org On Mon, 27 Sep 1999, Matt Welsh wrote: > > > I have also considered running > > banners for other OSS sites the way that linux.com does but that will have > > to wait until more things come around the corner. > > I hate banners. They're on practically every web page I can think of; > wouldn't it be nice if the LDP were a bannerless oasis in the desert of > the World Wide Web? > > There are other ways to promote other OSS projects (a list of links, for > example). Banners waste bandwidth and annoy the hell out of people with > slow modems. Let's chuck 'em! > > Matt > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:37 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id KAA22035 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 10:03:10 +1000 From: ldp-announce-request@lists.debian.org Received: (qmail 10970 invoked by uid 38); 28 Aug 1999 00:03:06 -0000 Date: 28 Aug 1999 00:03:06 -0000 Message-ID: <19990828000306.10961.qmail@murphy.debian.org> To: terry@albert.animats.net References: <199908272356.JAA21983@albert.animats.net> In-Reply-To: <199908272356.JAA21983@albert.animats.net> X-Loop: ldp-announce@lists.debian.org Subject: CONFIRM s082719030510919 You have requested that the following address: terry@albert.animats.net be added to the ldp-announce mailing list. You have NOT yet been subscribed to the mailing list. To subscribe you need to confirm your subscription request by sending email to the address: ldp-announce-request@lists.debian.org with the Subject string: CONFIRM s082719030510919 With a reasonable good email program a reply to this message should be sufficient When your confirm message has been received the above listed address will be (un)subscribed. If the above address is incorrect, please do not send in the confirm message listed above. Instead, send a new (un)subscribe request containing the Subject: subscribe correct-address@correct-domain or unsubscribe correct-address@correct-domain and wait for a new confirmation message. A copy of the (un)subcription request appears below. In the event that you did not send a request to (un)subscribe, the headers of the message may help you discover who sent the request. If you are unable to subscribe to our lists through this mechanism please don't hesitate to contact listmaster@debian.org directly. >From terry@albert.animats.net Fri Aug 27 19:03:04 1999 >X-Envelope-Sender: terry@albert.animats.net >Received: (qmail 566 invoked from network); 27 Aug 1999 23:56:26 -0000 >Received: from albert.animats.net (root@203.41.101.122) > by murphy.debian.org with SMTP; 27 Aug 1999 23:56:24 -0000 >Received: from albert.animats.net (terry@localhost [127.0.0.1]) > by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA21983; > Sat, 28 Aug 1999 09:56:09 +1000 >Message-Id: <199908272356.JAA21983@albert.animats.net> >Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 09:56:06 +1000 (EST) >From: terry@albert.animats.net >Subject: subscribe terry@albert.animats.net >To: ldp-private-request@lists.linuxdoc.org, ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org, > ldp-announce@lists.linuxdoc.org >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII > > >subscribe terry@albert.animats.net > > > From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:37 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id KAA22036 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 10:03:11 +1000 From: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Received: (qmail 11022 invoked by uid 38); 28 Aug 1999 00:03:08 -0000 Date: 28 Aug 1999 00:03:08 -0000 Message-ID: <19990828000308.11014.qmail@murphy.debian.org> To: terry@albert.animats.net References: <199908272356.JAA21983@albert.animats.net> In-Reply-To: <199908272356.JAA21983@albert.animats.net> X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Subject: CONFIRM s082719030710966 You have requested that the following address: terry@albert.animats.net be added to the ldp-discuss mailing list. You have NOT yet been subscribed to the mailing list. To subscribe you need to confirm your subscription request by sending email to the address: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with the Subject string: CONFIRM s082719030710966 With a reasonable good email program a reply to this message should be sufficient When your confirm message has been received the above listed address will be (un)subscribed. If the above address is incorrect, please do not send in the confirm message listed above. Instead, send a new (un)subscribe request containing the Subject: subscribe correct-address@correct-domain or unsubscribe correct-address@correct-domain and wait for a new confirmation message. A copy of the (un)subcription request appears below. In the event that you did not send a request to (un)subscribe, the headers of the message may help you discover who sent the request. If you are unable to subscribe to our lists through this mechanism please don't hesitate to contact listmaster@debian.org directly. >From terry@albert.animats.net Fri Aug 27 19:03:05 1999 >X-Envelope-Sender: terry@albert.animats.net >Received: (qmail 566 invoked from network); 27 Aug 1999 23:56:26 -0000 >Received: from albert.animats.net (root@203.41.101.122) > by murphy.debian.org with SMTP; 27 Aug 1999 23:56:24 -0000 >Received: from albert.animats.net (terry@localhost [127.0.0.1]) > by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA21983; > Sat, 28 Aug 1999 09:56:09 +1000 >Message-Id: <199908272356.JAA21983@albert.animats.net> >Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 09:56:06 +1000 (EST) >From: terry@albert.animats.net >Subject: subscribe terry@albert.animats.net >To: ldp-private-request@lists.linuxdoc.org, ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org, > ldp-announce@lists.linuxdoc.org >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII > > >subscribe terry@albert.animats.net > > > From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:37 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id KAA22037 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 10:03:12 +1000 From: ldp-private-request@lists.debian.org Received: (qmail 11046 invoked by uid 38); 28 Aug 1999 00:03:08 -0000 Date: 28 Aug 1999 00:03:08 -0000 Message-ID: <19990828000308.11038.qmail@murphy.debian.org> To: terry@albert.animats.net References: <199908272356.JAA21983@albert.animats.net> In-Reply-To: <199908272356.JAA21983@albert.animats.net> X-Loop: ldp-private@lists.debian.org Subject: CONFIRM s082719030811000 You have requested that the following address: terry@albert.animats.net be added to the ldp-private mailing list. You have NOT yet been subscribed to the mailing list. To subscribe you need to confirm your subscription request by sending email to the address: ldp-private-request@lists.debian.org with the Subject string: CONFIRM s082719030811000 With a reasonable good email program a reply to this message should be sufficient When your confirm message has been received the above listed address will be (un)subscribed. If the above address is incorrect, please do not send in the confirm message listed above. Instead, send a new (un)subscribe request containing the Subject: subscribe correct-address@correct-domain or unsubscribe correct-address@correct-domain and wait for a new confirmation message. A copy of the (un)subcription request appears below. In the event that you did not send a request to (un)subscribe, the headers of the message may help you discover who sent the request. If you are unable to subscribe to our lists through this mechanism please don't hesitate to contact listmaster@debian.org directly. >From terry@albert.animats.net Fri Aug 27 19:03:07 1999 >X-Envelope-Sender: terry@albert.animats.net >Received: (qmail 566 invoked from network); 27 Aug 1999 23:56:26 -0000 >Received: from albert.animats.net (root@203.41.101.122) > by murphy.debian.org with SMTP; 27 Aug 1999 23:56:24 -0000 >Received: from albert.animats.net (terry@localhost [127.0.0.1]) > by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA21983; > Sat, 28 Aug 1999 09:56:09 +1000 >Message-Id: <199908272356.JAA21983@albert.animats.net> >Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 09:56:06 +1000 (EST) >From: terry@albert.animats.net >Subject: subscribe terry@albert.animats.net >To: ldp-private-request@lists.linuxdoc.org, ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org, > ldp-announce@lists.linuxdoc.org >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII > > >subscribe terry@albert.animats.net > > > From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:37 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id KAA22161 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 10:15:25 +1000 Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA14641 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 20:26:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (pjones@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA06951 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 20:15:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: pjones owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 20:15:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul Jones X-Sender: pjones@titan.oit.unc.edu To: terry@albert.animats.net Subject: Re: ldp-l needs to die In-Reply-To: <199908272346.JAA21918@albert.animats.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII i agree. it's so simple to move a subscriber list; why isn't that done? ========================================================================== Paul Jones "We must protect our precious bodily fluids!" General Jack D Ripper http://MetaLab.unc.edu/pjones/ at the Site Formerly Known As SunSITE.unc.edu pjones@MetaLab.unc.edu voice: (919) 962-7600 fax: (919) 962-8071 =========================================================================== From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:37 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0003 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from victis.oeil.qc.ca (IDENT:mail@paul-nord.asso.ups-tlse.fr [195.220.50.6]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id IAA12845 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 08:47:09 +1000 Received: from guylhem by victis.oeil.qc.ca with local (Exim 3.02 #3) id 11NOZx-0000GX-00; Sun, 05 Sep 1999 00:46:37 +0200 Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 00:46:37 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: terry@albert.animats.net Cc: LDP discuss Subject: Re: Should we split mini HOWTOs? Message-ID: <19990905004637.E976@victis.oeil.qc.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="/aVve/J9H4Wl5yVO"; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 --/aVve/J9H4Wl5yVO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 03:25:15PM +1000, terry@albert.animats.net wrote: > > For something like that, I'd suggest one document with chapters for > > variants. The chapters can stand alone, yet have necessary > > references > > to details and generalities elsewhere. Then people can design the > > skeleton documents and others will plug in the details with which > > they > > are more familiar. > That's the sort of thing I had in mind, yes. That's what I'm doing and I'd also prefer that, however if someone submit such little guides, maybe they think the HOWTO was too generic enough for some special problem. --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Anywhere/Partout: guylhem-pager \@/ oeil.qc.ca --/aVve/J9H4Wl5yVO Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN9GhTd+QeWug/qfFAQF1SgQAhnrSHfcAQleUUsqqWmbbWFQ2C0vN11A0 UwnSQIi7ECMTXQcx6/+8iuysWOn2UACG6sNoAKF4P7nuJizN5Vz1N5QRqaVCBjI1 rblQ1pA/B6U7qVajsf1eMbVyiNINH4HfvCsQHQEZ+q0mQM9GMdYVnzYnHGazcPrw 4ix9i4qjB1E= =FL8H -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --/aVve/J9H4Wl5yVO-- From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:37 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0003 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from victis.oeil.qc.ca (IDENT:mail@paul-nord.asso.ups-tlse.fr [195.220.50.6]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id IAA12873 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 08:49:41 +1000 Received: from guylhem by victis.oeil.qc.ca with local (Exim 3.02 #3) id 11NOcU-0000H0-00; Sun, 05 Sep 1999 00:49:14 +0200 Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 00:49:14 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: terry@albert.animats.net Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Message-ID: <19990905004914.H976@victis.oeil.qc.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="LYw3s/afESlflPpp"; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 --LYw3s/afESlflPpp Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 08:57:09AM +1000, terry@albert.animats.net wrote: > This confuses my original understanding of what HOWTO documents were > supposed to be and how they were differentiated from the Guides. The > HOWTO documents are meant to be step-by-step instructions I thought. Now very few HOWTO give only step by step instructions. ; there's always many explainations which confuses beginners. For ex, on the Mail HOWTO they expect to find "how can I make sendmail work in my RH6", while there's general information on email, protocols, then smail, qmail and exim... > I think the power saving example is exactly the right sort of thing to > have in a Mini-HOWTO. Mini refers to size, while we should refer to specificity --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Anywhere/Partout: guylhem-pager \@/ oeil.qc.ca --LYw3s/afESlflPpp Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN9Gh6t+QeWug/qfFAQH/wQP/bQerw2PdEDN8m93HYailUeFc5NzTIJeG cviPAaPdE6QMNJImqC8QrPuzkwpsZbicHT30ayUDEh3/gd/pvP3B6lbRRGelmdgE MwkmY+KGDfy1fJo3y3ma0CyeRg9RpzxQWQGY41ceo6WQJO2A4crbvOblRWwtepBz v6JAAm7uoBM= =M8kE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --LYw3s/afESlflPpp-- From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:37 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0003 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id IAA12892 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 08:51:25 +1000 Received: (qmail 13458 invoked by uid 38); 4 Sep 1999 22:49:53 -0000 Resent-Date: 4 Sep 1999 22:49:53 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: guylhem@victis.oeil.qc.ca Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 00:49:14 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: terry@albert.animats.net Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Message-ID: <19990905004914.H976@victis.oeil.qc.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="LYw3s/afESlflPpp"; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <14kYuC.A.pRD.QIa03@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Subject: Unidentified subject! X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/332 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org --LYw3s/afESlflPpp Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 08:57:09AM +1000, terry@albert.animats.net wrote: > This confuses my original understanding of what HOWTO documents were > supposed to be and how they were differentiated from the Guides. The > HOWTO documents are meant to be step-by-step instructions I thought. Now very few HOWTO give only step by step instructions. ; there's always many explainations which confuses beginners. For ex, on the Mail HOWTO they expect to find "how can I make sendmail work in my RH6", while there's general information on email, protocols, then smail, qmail and exim... > I think the power saving example is exactly the right sort of thing to > have in a Mini-HOWTO. Mini refers to size, while we should refer to specificity --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Anywhere/Partout: guylhem-pager \@/ oeil.qc.ca --LYw3s/afESlflPpp Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN9Gh6t+QeWug/qfFAQH/wQP/bQerw2PdEDN8m93HYailUeFc5NzTIJeG cviPAaPdE6QMNJImqC8QrPuzkwpsZbicHT30ayUDEh3/gd/pvP3B6lbRRGelmdgE MwkmY+KGDfy1fJo3y3ma0CyeRg9RpzxQWQGY41ceo6WQJO2A4crbvOblRWwtepBz v6JAAm7uoBM= =M8kE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --LYw3s/afESlflPpp-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:37 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0013 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from victis.oeil.qc.ca (IDENT:mail@paul-nord.asso.ups-tlse.fr [195.220.50.6]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id IAA12918 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 08:56:03 +1000 Received: from guylhem by victis.oeil.qc.ca with local (Exim 3.02 #3) id 11NOie-0000IB-00 for terry@albert.animats.net; Sun, 05 Sep 1999 00:55:36 +0200 Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 00:55:36 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: terry@albert.animats.net Subject: linux au Message-ID: <19990905005536.M976@victis.oeil.qc.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=p1Od3smaOkJqivj4; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 --p1Od3smaOkJqivj4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 08:52:13AM +1000, terry@albert.animats.net wrote: > Are these for local mirrors or local documentation projects? Local documentation project, i.e. not necessarily a different language, but local information (LUG, meetings, bookstores...) > If for mirroring purposes then you can add my interest for .au, we've > run an official mirror for some time and wish to continue doing so. www.au.linuxdoc.org could point to it. We will not replace any local LDP, we'll just add more pointers :-) --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Anywhere/Partout: guylhem-pager \@/ oeil.qc.ca --p1Od3smaOkJqivj4 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN9GjaN+QeWug/qfFAQEvcQQAqEtktNawXs+b9DuPdrwx4u5pOQ162Rfe prvyMQvT8JRs0qJreIHm/vaOdbhQrBwTSXBjiHzJyZKdVsxIk4rwHyYMVlBBQz+7 f1T4bQcuhUu29osP6/FpzDiq2DZDCRocfpSOxCWEg+PwwgO2K9DPbx+oB8/2BziQ N28FgAiBZho= =MUmb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --p1Od3smaOkJqivj4-- From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:37 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from m2.pp.htv.fi (m2ep.pp.htv.fi [212.90.64.98]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA18887 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 02:30:53 +1000 Received: from m7.pp.htv.fi (m7.pp.htv.fi [212.90.64.22]) by m2.pp.htv.fi (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA04989 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 19:30:13 +0300 (EETDST) Received: from hackstation (cs66044.pp.htv.fi [212.90.66.44]) by m7.pp.htv.fi (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA17520 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 19:31:27 +0300 (EETDST) Received: from liw by hackstation with local (Exim 3.03 #1 (Debian)) id 11NfCV-0001ND-00 for ; Sun, 05 Sep 1999 19:31:31 +0300 From: Lars Wirzenius MIME-Version: 1.0 To: terry@albert.animats.net Subject: Re: In-Reply-To: <199908222159.HAA19590@albert.animats.net> Mail-Copies-To: never X-No-Archive: yes Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 16:31:22 GMT Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-md5"; boundary="127.0.0.1.1000.1499.936549090.066.20494"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Sender: Lars Wirzenius This is a MIME message. --127.0.0.1.1000.1499.936549090.066.20494 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable terry@albert.animats.net: > On 22 Aug, Guylhem Aznar wrote: > > On Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 07:52:28PM +0000, Marco Budde wrote: > >> But the LDP license is not free! > > = > > I consider it free. > > = > > Documents are not like software, we need additional restrictions, even > > if you think it's not free. > = > At risk of instantianting "LDP License Debate 1999", I do not believe > you will find any concensus on that matter. > = > I for one believe that documents *are* like software and that we do not > need any additional restrictions. I've been reading through my LDP folders, and I just have to say I agree with you. If that wasn't clear from years past. :) (Am not saying it in public, the LDP has had enough license debates for the time being.) -- = Stupid little mailer under construction, sorry for any problems. --127.0.0.1.1000.1499.936549090.066.20494 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: GnuPG v0.9.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iQCVAwUAN9Ka4YQRll5MupLRAQHEJwQAgTXKKvp6A5PNXlzqL2l0YfjMCvAyrV+C LQP39PDAiAnsyhFJgkF81l3VmwC5nQg10IgCTBFkEb99tFO5/3NJ4vzfhNOMf6Mw U+UWLuRS2kySuV4Pz6T5kHCuBhC25qd1uCFOreZlgbUjAMIJCynb+NRrZZUuawsZ 2eMzyvtBUvw= =61Ue -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --127.0.0.1.1000.1499.936549090.066.20494-- This was a MIME message. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0003 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from m2.pp.htv.fi (m2ep.pp.htv.fi [212.90.64.98]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA18887 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 02:30:53 +1000 Received: from m7.pp.htv.fi (m7.pp.htv.fi [212.90.64.22]) by m2.pp.htv.fi (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA04989 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 19:30:13 +0300 (EETDST) Received: from hackstation (cs66044.pp.htv.fi [212.90.66.44]) by m7.pp.htv.fi (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA17520 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 19:31:27 +0300 (EETDST) Received: from liw by hackstation with local (Exim 3.03 #1 (Debian)) id 11NfCV-0001ND-00 for ; Sun, 05 Sep 1999 19:31:31 +0300 From: Lars Wirzenius MIME-Version: 1.0 To: terry@albert.animats.net Subject: Re: In-Reply-To: <199908222159.HAA19590@albert.animats.net> Mail-Copies-To: never X-No-Archive: yes Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 16:31:22 GMT Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-md5"; boundary="127.0.0.1.1000.1499.936549090.066.20494"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Sender: Lars Wirzenius This is a MIME message. --127.0.0.1.1000.1499.936549090.066.20494 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable terry@albert.animats.net: > On 22 Aug, Guylhem Aznar wrote: > > On Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 07:52:28PM +0000, Marco Budde wrote: > >> But the LDP license is not free! > > = > > I consider it free. > > = > > Documents are not like software, we need additional restrictions, even > > if you think it's not free. > = > At risk of instantianting "LDP License Debate 1999", I do not believe > you will find any concensus on that matter. > = > I for one believe that documents *are* like software and that we do not > need any additional restrictions. I've been reading through my LDP folders, and I just have to say I agree with you. If that wasn't clear from years past. :) (Am not saying it in public, the LDP has had enough license debates for the time being.) -- = Stupid little mailer under construction, sorry for any problems. --127.0.0.1.1000.1499.936549090.066.20494 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: GnuPG v0.9.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iQCVAwUAN9Ka4YQRll5MupLRAQHEJwQAgTXKKvp6A5PNXlzqL2l0YfjMCvAyrV+C LQP39PDAiAnsyhFJgkF81l3VmwC5nQg10IgCTBFkEb99tFO5/3NJ4vzfhNOMf6Mw U+UWLuRS2kySuV4Pz6T5kHCuBhC25qd1uCFOreZlgbUjAMIJCynb+NRrZZUuawsZ 2eMzyvtBUvw= =61Ue -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --127.0.0.1.1000.1499.936549090.066.20494-- This was a MIME message. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from sgi.com (sgi.SGI.COM [192.48.153.1]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id HAA10211 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 07:00:24 +1000 Received: from webster.timonium.sgi.com ([169.238.21.2]) by sgi.com (980327.SGI.8.8.8-aspam/980304.SGI-aspam: SGI does not authorize the use of its proprietary systems or networks for unsolicited or bulk email from the Internet.) via SMTP id OAA07268; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:00:14 -0700 (PDT) mail_from (gferg@hoop.timonium.sgi.com) Received: from hoop.timonium.sgi.com by webster.timonium.sgi.com via ESMTP (950413.SGI.8.6.12/911001.SGI) id RAA15623; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:21:45 -0400 Received: by hoop.timonium.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/940406.SGI.AUTO) id RAA25568; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:07:03 -0400 From: "Greg Ferguson" Message-Id: <9909161707.ZM25566@hoop.timonium.sgi.com> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:07:03 -0400 In-Reply-To: Terry Dawson "linuxdoc.org: copyright and Manifesto" (Sep 16, 5:21pm) References: <19990916172117.B6135@albert.animats.net> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: Terry Dawson , ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: linuxdoc.org: copyright and Manifesto Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Based on some of Terry's observations, I have updated the copyright document. I have removed the "Publishing LDP Manuals" area from it, and instead link to the area found within the Manifesto. There are also a couple of other links to the Manifesto that are specifically called out. The copyright is found at - http://www.linuxdoc.org/copyright.html and the Manifesto (also modified slightly) can be seen at - http://www.linuxdoc.org/LDP-Manifesto.html Terry (or anyone else that may have comments on these documents), if this doesn't capture what you're looking for, please email me. Ferg From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id HAA10219 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 07:00:43 +1000 Received: (qmail 21986 invoked by uid 38); 16 Sep 1999 21:00:33 -0000 Resent-Date: 16 Sep 1999 21:00:33 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: gferg@hoop.timonium.sgi.com From: "Greg Ferguson" Message-Id: <9909161707.ZM25566@hoop.timonium.sgi.com> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:07:03 -0400 In-Reply-To: Terry Dawson "linuxdoc.org: copyright and Manifesto" (Sep 16, 5:21pm) References: <19990916172117.B6135@albert.animats.net> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: Terry Dawson , ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: linuxdoc.org: copyright and Manifesto Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <2btT5B.A.ZXF.wpV43@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/459 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Based on some of Terry's observations, I have updated the copyright document. I have removed the "Publishing LDP Manuals" area from it, and instead link to the area found within the Manifesto. There are also a couple of other links to the Manifesto that are specifically called out. The copyright is found at - http://www.linuxdoc.org/copyright.html and the Manifesto (also modified slightly) can be seen at - http://www.linuxdoc.org/LDP-Manifesto.html Terry (or anyone else that may have comments on these documents), if this doesn't capture what you're looking for, please email me. Ferg -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0013 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from maya.dyndns.org (IDENT:root@ts1-15.owns.interhop.net [165.154.232.79]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id QAA12898 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:22:35 +1000 Received: (from garym@localhost) by maya.dyndns.org (8.9.3/8.9.1/hvv-redhat) id XAA15193; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 23:22:08 -0700 Sender: garym@mail.wccweb.com To: terry@albert.animats.net Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: [off topic] Re: Licensing issues References: <199909192112.HAA10280@albert.animats.net> From: Gary Lawrence Murphy Date: 20 Sep 1999 02:22:07 -0400 Message-ID: Reply-To: Gary Lawrence Murphy Organization: TeleDynamics --- the Art of Being There X-Url: http://www.teledyn.com/ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>>>> "t" == terry writes: >> Let's be honest: The same is true of all 'official' Linux >> distributions. t> Of course they can. What you suggest is true for Linux t> distributions isn't true. The RedHat distribution has been t> picked up, tinkered with slightly, restamped with another t> another name and sold off. The GPL specifically allows that. Tinkered slightly may be the problem: I've heard RH is considering branding derived editions differently to distinguish them from the 'official' release, but this still misses my point. My point was that the *physical* distribution, the box, the text, the colour scheme and the logo cannot be duplicated or even simulated. The physical manifestion of their release is not free, only the aetherial content of the CD. t> ... "Official" SuSE is only "official" as far as t> SuSE is concerned, not the wider Linux community for example. With wider community considers the tux.org as an official distro, and you and I cannot take that, change it, and redistribute it as tux.org Linux. We can, of course, the licence allows it, but it would be foolish to do so. t> We are free at any time to go and produce a divergent kernel Yes, divergent. But we cannot directly change that distro, only create a new one. RH's changed kernel, for example, drives me nuts with every release, but I know it is a RH kernel, not a tux.org kernel. t> Now you have me confused. What is 'official linux' in your t> mind? I think you're confused. The linux that is produced from the Makefile in the Linux tarballs you would download from ftp.tux.org. If you prefer a different word, call it the 'reference kernel' but the effect is the same: All the others take that, change it, but release it clearly as their own. t> Hmm... I think in that case the publishers want to be t> commissioning their own documents then. I can understand a t> publishing company wanting to protect the value it adds to a t> document: indexing, editing, high quality illustration, t> typesetting, binding etc. but I don't see how it wins anything t> by wanting control of the document content. They don't want control of the content, or more precisely, I believe they will eventually see they don't need it and will benefit more if they let it go. They do need to have control of their box, though, just as RH controls their box. We can accept linuxconf as 'free' even though it is put into a copyright and exclusive box, and we could accept OPL docs, even if they are considered non-free when put down into the publisher's box, because the content is free. I know full well the situation is not perfect, but I wonder if there is a workable middle ground. t> but you also want to see Barnes and Noble being the only people t> with that up to date version of the book, right? Not at all. The LDP would have it long before the publishing process can run it through the mill and get it on to trucks. That is the point of it all: The LDP gets up to date docs to be distributed as freely as software, with the odd restriction that you cannot *print* the sourcecode as a single bundle of paper (which is, of course, absurd) t> Heh, most of the publishing world is, some publishers have the t> jump on the rest :) Let's hope so. The first ones to crack this will be moving into an uncharted realm, but then, so did RMS back in '94 >> Keep in mind that I can create an LSL-like RedHat distro, but >> if I were to copy the package, CD cover and printed materials >> wrapping Red Hat 6.0 and put it on the shelf of a local >> bookstore, I expect I would hear from Bob Young's lawyers. t> Of course, that is because the wrapping, the name, and the t> documentation supplied are not covered by free licenses. Exactly, and that is the parallel I'd like to draw with the bound and shipped book; they don't own the content, but they own the media. Someday I hope they will see that they can allow a competitor to take their digital content, wrap it with new covers &c and ship it, and the best package will win, but they aren't going to accept that in their first attempt any more than commercial shops accepted the GNU C compiler before the LGPL. t> I don't believe the LDP stands to gain much by having commercial t> publishers come in at the expense of abandoning one of the most t> important underlying tenets of the LDP, freedom of the works. I do. I just spent 4 hours trying to find the answer to a simple question. I want to do what any small office does and integrate my dialup, fax and voicemail. So what modem, produced since 1995, will work with mgetty+fax+voice? The docs tell me to buy a ZyXEL modem that has been out of production for years and now sells on eBay for $10, and they leave off on USR modems at the 28.8k's And it was from a commercial book that I learned to code a module, since the khg only confronted me with far too many threaded emails to sort out what is current from what is changed. This is not right. t> Secondly, you then need to invent a means of dealing with t> territorial squabbles. If I, or the LDP, is to be earning any t> money from the published works then I'll have them printed by t> the most successful publisher please. Absolutely, and that is where the responsibility goes to the publisher to ensure they also get a return on their investment. Their need for profit will anneal to optimum distribution channels (and remember that each has different strengths and weaknesses in these channels). You should see them jockey for display space on Barnes and Noble! I don't want this to be seen as an infringement or a criticism. I absolutely without reservation agree that totally free docs are the future and the only logical path to success. I was a fan of the floundering Project Gutenberg when it had 3 docs in the collection, I'm a personal friend of the McLuhan family (I have Eric talked into writing some essays under the OPL), I studied with America's most famous anarchist composer (John Cage). I have no doubts the world we want is inevitable. I am just curious about a common ground because I know MCP is not the only publisher who wants to do its business while giving a positive contribution to the existing Linux community, and I really don't like seeing watered down LDP docs being commissioned because the sponsoring publisher is saving the good bits for their "annotations" --- I mean, I like that they are paying LDP authors and giving them a chance to make money doing what they love doing, and I've signed a lot of authors for exactly this sort of work, but its the people who may not have access to those books who lose if they can't get the real information (in any form) without paying for it. Right now, the LDP is the raw material from which all the publishers are excavating ore, refining and coallating it, indexing and organizing it, and then selling it solely for the benefit of the authors and the publisher --- the information they list is not their invention, and although the authors are doing considerable work to sift the broken and outdated from the gems, I would be a lot happier if the end result was folded back to improve the LDP in some way; right now, and I include all of the publishers, we're being stripmined and outstripped. -- Gary Lawrence Murphy TeleDynamics Communications Inc Business Telecom Services : Internet Consulting : http://www.teledyn.com Linux Writers Workshop Archive: http://www.egroups.com/group/linux-hack/ "You don't play what you know; you play what you hear." -- (Miles Davis) From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0013 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id QAA12907 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:23:29 +1000 Received: (qmail 21896 invoked by uid 38); 20 Sep 1999 06:23:22 -0000 Resent-Date: 20 Sep 1999 06:23:22 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: garym@maya.dyndns.org Sender: garym@mail.wccweb.com To: terry@albert.animats.net Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: [off topic] Re: Licensing issues References: <199909192112.HAA10280@albert.animats.net> From: Gary Lawrence Murphy Date: 20 Sep 1999 02:22:07 -0400 Message-ID: Reply-To: Gary Lawrence Murphy Organization: TeleDynamics --- the Art of Being There X-Url: http://www.teledyn.com/ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/512 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org >>>>> "t" == terry writes: >> Let's be honest: The same is true of all 'official' Linux >> distributions. t> Of course they can. What you suggest is true for Linux t> distributions isn't true. The RedHat distribution has been t> picked up, tinkered with slightly, restamped with another t> another name and sold off. The GPL specifically allows that. Tinkered slightly may be the problem: I've heard RH is considering branding derived editions differently to distinguish them from the 'official' release, but this still misses my point. My point was that the *physical* distribution, the box, the text, the colour scheme and the logo cannot be duplicated or even simulated. The physical manifestion of their release is not free, only the aetherial content of the CD. t> ... "Official" SuSE is only "official" as far as t> SuSE is concerned, not the wider Linux community for example. With wider community considers the tux.org as an official distro, and you and I cannot take that, change it, and redistribute it as tux.org Linux. We can, of course, the licence allows it, but it would be foolish to do so. t> We are free at any time to go and produce a divergent kernel Yes, divergent. But we cannot directly change that distro, only create a new one. RH's changed kernel, for example, drives me nuts with every release, but I know it is a RH kernel, not a tux.org kernel. t> Now you have me confused. What is 'official linux' in your t> mind? I think you're confused. The linux that is produced from the Makefile in the Linux tarballs you would download from ftp.tux.org. If you prefer a different word, call it the 'reference kernel' but the effect is the same: All the others take that, change it, but release it clearly as their own. t> Hmm... I think in that case the publishers want to be t> commissioning their own documents then. I can understand a t> publishing company wanting to protect the value it adds to a t> document: indexing, editing, high quality illustration, t> typesetting, binding etc. but I don't see how it wins anything t> by wanting control of the document content. They don't want control of the content, or more precisely, I believe they will eventually see they don't need it and will benefit more if they let it go. They do need to have control of their box, though, just as RH controls their box. We can accept linuxconf as 'free' even though it is put into a copyright and exclusive box, and we could accept OPL docs, even if they are considered non-free when put down into the publisher's box, because the content is free. I know full well the situation is not perfect, but I wonder if there is a workable middle ground. t> but you also want to see Barnes and Noble being the only people t> with that up to date version of the book, right? Not at all. The LDP would have it long before the publishing process can run it through the mill and get it on to trucks. That is the point of it all: The LDP gets up to date docs to be distributed as freely as software, with the odd restriction that you cannot *print* the sourcecode as a single bundle of paper (which is, of course, absurd) t> Heh, most of the publishing world is, some publishers have the t> jump on the rest :) Let's hope so. The first ones to crack this will be moving into an uncharted realm, but then, so did RMS back in '94 >> Keep in mind that I can create an LSL-like RedHat distro, but >> if I were to copy the package, CD cover and printed materials >> wrapping Red Hat 6.0 and put it on the shelf of a local >> bookstore, I expect I would hear from Bob Young's lawyers. t> Of course, that is because the wrapping, the name, and the t> documentation supplied are not covered by free licenses. Exactly, and that is the parallel I'd like to draw with the bound and shipped book; they don't own the content, but they own the media. Someday I hope they will see that they can allow a competitor to take their digital content, wrap it with new covers &c and ship it, and the best package will win, but they aren't going to accept that in their first attempt any more than commercial shops accepted the GNU C compiler before the LGPL. t> I don't believe the LDP stands to gain much by having commercial t> publishers come in at the expense of abandoning one of the most t> important underlying tenets of the LDP, freedom of the works. I do. I just spent 4 hours trying to find the answer to a simple question. I want to do what any small office does and integrate my dialup, fax and voicemail. So what modem, produced since 1995, will work with mgetty+fax+voice? The docs tell me to buy a ZyXEL modem that has been out of production for years and now sells on eBay for $10, and they leave off on USR modems at the 28.8k's And it was from a commercial book that I learned to code a module, since the khg only confronted me with far too many threaded emails to sort out what is current from what is changed. This is not right. t> Secondly, you then need to invent a means of dealing with t> territorial squabbles. If I, or the LDP, is to be earning any t> money from the published works then I'll have them printed by t> the most successful publisher please. Absolutely, and that is where the responsibility goes to the publisher to ensure they also get a return on their investment. Their need for profit will anneal to optimum distribution channels (and remember that each has different strengths and weaknesses in these channels). You should see them jockey for display space on Barnes and Noble! I don't want this to be seen as an infringement or a criticism. I absolutely without reservation agree that totally free docs are the future and the only logical path to success. I was a fan of the floundering Project Gutenberg when it had 3 docs in the collection, I'm a personal friend of the McLuhan family (I have Eric talked into writing some essays under the OPL), I studied with America's most famous anarchist composer (John Cage). I have no doubts the world we want is inevitable. I am just curious about a common ground because I know MCP is not the only publisher who wants to do its business while giving a positive contribution to the existing Linux community, and I really don't like seeing watered down LDP docs being commissioned because the sponsoring publisher is saving the good bits for their "annotations" --- I mean, I like that they are paying LDP authors and giving them a chance to make money doing what they love doing, and I've signed a lot of authors for exactly this sort of work, but its the people who may not have access to those books who lose if they can't get the real information (in any form) without paying for it. Right now, the LDP is the raw material from which all the publishers are excavating ore, refining and coallating it, indexing and organizing it, and then selling it solely for the benefit of the authors and the publisher --- the information they list is not their invention, and although the authors are doing considerable work to sift the broken and outdated from the gems, I would be a lot happier if the end result was folded back to improve the LDP in some way; right now, and I include all of the publishers, we're being stripmined and outstripped. -- Gary Lawrence Murphy TeleDynamics Communications Inc Business Telecom Services : Internet Consulting : http://www.teledyn.com Linux Writers Workshop Archive: http://www.egroups.com/group/linux-hack/ "You don't play what you know; you play what you hear." -- (Miles Davis) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from lacrosse.corp.redhat.com (IDENT:root@lacrosse.corp.redhat.com [207.175.42.154]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id HAA17046 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:12:55 +1000 Received: from chef.meridian.redhat.com (IDENT:root@chef.meridian.redhat.com [207.175.42.11]) by lacrosse.corp.redhat.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA30603; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:12:27 -0400 Received: from redhat.com (IDENT:djb@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chef.meridian.redhat.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA18118; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:12:34 -0400 Message-Id: <199909202112.RAA18118@chef.meridian.redhat.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 To: terry@albert.animats.net cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Licensing issues In-reply-to: <199909202108.HAA17013@albert.animats.net> from terry@albert.animats.net on Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:08:26 +1000. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:12:34 -0400 From: Donnie Barnes > > I don't care to go into the debate on why we need to avoid this *again*. > > Suffice it to say that documentation IS NOT software. Leave people the > > ability to choose and let the LDP have the most useful documentation it > > can reasonably have. > > Unmodifiable documents are uneditable/untransformable/untypesettable > documents. Documents must be modifiable if they are to published in any > form other than that which the author produces. Sorry, I should have been more specific. I'm talking about content modification, period. --Donnie -- Donnie Barnes http://www.donniebarnes.com djb@donniebarnes.com "Bah." Challenge Diversity. Ignore People. Live Life. Use Linux. 879. V. Bats, when dipped in batter and deep fried, still taste pretty bad. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id HAA17052 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:13:01 +1000 Received: (qmail 21756 invoked by uid 38); 20 Sep 1999 21:12:49 -0000 Resent-Date: 20 Sep 1999 21:12:49 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: djb@redhat.com Message-Id: <199909202112.RAA18118@chef.meridian.redhat.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 To: terry@albert.animats.net cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Licensing issues In-reply-to: <199909202108.HAA17013@albert.animats.net> from terry@albert.animats.net on Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:08:26 +1000. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:12:34 -0400 From: Donnie Barnes Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/518 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > > I don't care to go into the debate on why we need to avoid this *again*. > > Suffice it to say that documentation IS NOT software. Leave people the > > ability to choose and let the LDP have the most useful documentation it > > can reasonably have. > > Unmodifiable documents are uneditable/untransformable/untypesettable > documents. Documents must be modifiable if they are to published in any > form other than that which the author produces. Sorry, I should have been more specific. I'm talking about content modification, period. --Donnie -- Donnie Barnes http://www.donniebarnes.com djb@donniebarnes.com "Bah." Challenge Diversity. Ignore People. Live Life. Use Linux. 879. V. Bats, when dipped in batter and deep fried, still taste pretty bad. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from maya.dyndns.org (IDENT:root@ts1-27.owns.interhop.net [165.154.232.91]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id HAA17114 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:24:28 +1000 Received: (from garym@localhost) by maya.dyndns.org (8.9.3/8.9.1/hvv-redhat) id OAA20279; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:24:22 -0700 Sender: garym@mail.wccweb.com To: terry@albert.animats.net Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: [off topic] Re: Licensing issues References: <199909202101.HAA16947@albert.animats.net> From: Gary Lawrence Murphy Date: 20 Sep 1999 17:24:21 -0400 Message-ID: Reply-To: Gary Lawrence Murphy Organization: TeleDynamics --- the Art of Being There X-Url: http://www.teledyn.com/ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>>>> "t" == terry writes: t> Stallman didn't get the GNU project kicking along by being t> compromising on licensing freedom. Then why did we have so many flame wars over the LGPL? -- Gary Lawrence Murphy TeleDynamics Communications Inc Business Telecom Services : Internet Consulting : http://www.teledyn.com Linux Writers Workshop Archive: http://www.egroups.com/group/linux-hack/ "You don't play what you know; you play what you hear." -- (Miles Davis) From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0013 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id HAA17122 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:24:54 +1000 Received: (qmail 669 invoked by uid 38); 20 Sep 1999 21:24:43 -0000 Resent-Date: 20 Sep 1999 21:24:43 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: garym@maya.dyndns.org Sender: garym@mail.wccweb.com To: terry@albert.animats.net Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: [off topic] Re: Licensing issues References: <199909202101.HAA16947@albert.animats.net> From: Gary Lawrence Murphy Date: 20 Sep 1999 17:24:21 -0400 Message-ID: Reply-To: Gary Lawrence Murphy Organization: TeleDynamics --- the Art of Being There X-Url: http://www.teledyn.com/ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <_6aZrC.A.UK.bYq53@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/519 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org >>>>> "t" == terry writes: t> Stallman didn't get the GNU project kicking along by being t> compromising on licensing freedom. Then why did we have so many flame wars over the LGPL? -- Gary Lawrence Murphy TeleDynamics Communications Inc Business Telecom Services : Internet Consulting : http://www.teledyn.com Linux Writers Workshop Archive: http://www.egroups.com/group/linux-hack/ "You don't play what you know; you play what you hear." -- (Miles Davis) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from maya.dyndns.org (IDENT:root@ts1-45.owns.interhop.net [165.154.232.109]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA21947 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 01:11:20 +1000 Received: (from garym@localhost) by maya.dyndns.org (8.9.3/8.9.1/hvv-redhat) id IAA24685; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:10:08 -0700 Sender: garym@mail.wccweb.com To: Terry Dawson Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: [off topic] Re: Licensing issues References: <199909202101.HAA16947@albert.animats.net> <19990921102713.C17878@albert.animats.net> From: Gary Lawrence Murphy Date: 21 Sep 1999 11:10:08 -0400 Message-ID: Reply-To: Gary Lawrence Murphy Organization: TeleDynamics --- the Art of Being There X-Url: http://www.teledyn.com/ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>>>> "T" == Terry Dawson writes: T> There is a big difference between GPL->LGPL and Open T> Documents->Exclusive publishing deals. They're in completely T> different leagues. The GPL->LGPL was a move to greater freedom T> at the cost of exclusivity. Not quite. It was a move to less freedom to accomodate exclusivity. The LGPL was required to allow commercial vendors to use the then-GPL'd libc in their own non-free projects. It is less freedom because the GPL was intended to make all derived works also bend to the GPL (which is another case where the GPL will not work for LDP docs) and had to give up this "freedom requirement" to accomodate commercial acceptance. T> What is being proposed works in completely the opposite T> direction, it is a move to restrict the publishing of documents T> by introducing exclusivity. But only the restriction on book-publishing, while opening up the free distribution of all material for all other avenues. Someone alluded to a publisher who is donating their stuff into the LDP without restrictions. I'm curious because the only publishers I know who go anywhere near that are ORA and Coriolis, and the former has not donated any complete documents (that I know of), and the latter is only donating bare essentials, keeping the good stuff for their 'annotations'. I'm curious. Which publisher is donating complete works? -- Gary Lawrence Murphy TeleDynamics Communications Inc Business Telecom Services : Internet Consulting : http://www.teledyn.com Linux Writers Workshop Archive: http://www.egroups.com/group/linux-hack/ "You don't play what you know; you play what you hear." -- (Miles Davis) From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id BAA21968 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 01:15:09 +1000 Received: (qmail 20027 invoked by uid 38); 21 Sep 1999 15:12:08 -0000 Resent-Date: 21 Sep 1999 15:12:08 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: garym@maya.dyndns.org Sender: garym@mail.wccweb.com To: Terry Dawson Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: [off topic] Re: Licensing issues References: <199909202101.HAA16947@albert.animats.net> <19990921102713.C17878@albert.animats.net> From: Gary Lawrence Murphy Date: 21 Sep 1999 11:10:08 -0400 Message-ID: Reply-To: Gary Lawrence Murphy Organization: TeleDynamics --- the Art of Being There X-Url: http://www.teledyn.com/ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <4D-L6C.A.d4E.HB653@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/528 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org >>>>> "T" == Terry Dawson writes: T> There is a big difference between GPL->LGPL and Open T> Documents->Exclusive publishing deals. They're in completely T> different leagues. The GPL->LGPL was a move to greater freedom T> at the cost of exclusivity. Not quite. It was a move to less freedom to accomodate exclusivity. The LGPL was required to allow commercial vendors to use the then-GPL'd libc in their own non-free projects. It is less freedom because the GPL was intended to make all derived works also bend to the GPL (which is another case where the GPL will not work for LDP docs) and had to give up this "freedom requirement" to accomodate commercial acceptance. T> What is being proposed works in completely the opposite T> direction, it is a move to restrict the publishing of documents T> by introducing exclusivity. But only the restriction on book-publishing, while opening up the free distribution of all material for all other avenues. Someone alluded to a publisher who is donating their stuff into the LDP without restrictions. I'm curious because the only publishers I know who go anywhere near that are ORA and Coriolis, and the former has not donated any complete documents (that I know of), and the latter is only donating bare essentials, keeping the good stuff for their 'annotations'. I'm curious. Which publisher is donating complete works? -- Gary Lawrence Murphy TeleDynamics Communications Inc Business Telecom Services : Internet Consulting : http://www.teledyn.com Linux Writers Workshop Archive: http://www.egroups.com/group/linux-hack/ "You don't play what you know; you play what you hear." -- (Miles Davis) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from maya.dyndns.org (IDENT:root@ts1-2.owns.interhop.net [165.154.232.66]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id PAA26107 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:52:47 +1000 Received: (from garym@localhost) by maya.dyndns.org (8.9.3/8.9.1/hvv-redhat) id WAA06218; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:51:58 -0700 Sender: garym@mail.wccweb.com To: Terry Dawson Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: [off topic] Re: Licensing issues References: <199909202101.HAA16947@albert.animats.net> <19990921102713.C17878@albert.animats.net> <19990922085238.B24076@albert.animats.net> From: Gary Lawrence Murphy Date: 22 Sep 1999 01:51:57 -0400 Message-ID: Reply-To: Gary Lawrence Murphy Organization: TeleDynamics --- the Art of Being There X-Url: http://www.teledyn.com/ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>>>> "T" == Terry Dawson writes: T> It was a move to more freedom, the only change was that it T> allowed a use that wasn't allowed before. I don't see how any T> reasonable description of freedom, or more or less suggests T> that is a restriction of freedom. The LGPL removed all those 'derived' works from being bound by the GPL. Thus, it had the result of encouraging developers to work on non-free software. So in this sense, no, it did not restrict freedoms, it just encouraged less free software development. At least, that was the arguement at the time. In retrospect, GCC did not become the industrial standard C compiler until _after_ the LGPL. Similarly, Linux distros who include non-free software are giving the message that non-free is required to complete the picture, and also removing the need to develop good free software. I don't entirely agree with this scenario, but this is my reading of the RMS papers on gnu.org and our correspondence. His argument has merit, but I don't think it is practical as dogma even when there are no viable free alternatives. The same is true for docs. Non or partially free licences are a transitional stage. T> The GPL will and does work for documents in exactly the same T> way. If you want to take portions of any of my documents and T> combine them with portions of other documents the other T> documents have to have licenses that are GPL compatible. If software is derived from GPL software, that software must be GPL and while it can be more free, it cannot be less free. If, on the other hand, research for a book is based on LDP documents and makes copious quotes, correcting commentary and grammar, and then making logical references to it to support a new point not found in the original (ie function call equivalents, corrected functional definitions, and new higher-level functions), then, by the GPL, can you sell that book? If a study course (an application) is based on a document, and the professor likewise corrects and extends the material, can you charge a fee for that course under the GPL? If Eric Raymond speaks to a room full of engineers using modified ideas of the GPL licenced documents, can he charge for the appearance? Can he charge for a book containing his talk? The whole notion of "derived/extended" and mere use (ie LGPL) in natural language is very, very murky. What if someone were to take an LDP document and transform it into a politically slanted work in conflict with the aims of the LDP, say, for example, to change it to highlight the shortcomings of some core Linux system such as KPPP? It could become a Microsoft sales tool. Because software has no 'implied' meanings or grades of truth, such a derived work could be attributed to the LDP under the GPL. For the same reason Salvador Dali threw a bathtub through Macy's window, authors seek control over changes of content, and some control over uses, and these are issues which do not occur in software (where the only measure of correctness is "bug-free") >> But only the restriction on book-publishing, while opening up >> the free distribution of all material for all other avenues. T> They're already open. There is no gain there. I see this as the first problem of the LDP: How do we stay current? Docs are not open if there are none. Unlike software, we don't have a pressing need for correct docs; an engineer is not stopped in their tracks if the SMP-Howto is not correct, but they are stopped if the SMP implementation is buggy. There is an itch to drive the creation of software because the use of that software can be translated directly into a business model to pay for the investment. There is no such carrot on a stick for documents: Far more than software patches, LDP docs are a total selfless gift from the author. Some of my own (non-Linux) documents (now published under the OPL) were written under contract for other purposes (teaching of courses, whitepapers for clients) and thus, because I had recouped the cost of producting these papers, I had no problems donating them for any use whatsoever. I was tickled pink when I learned two universities had printed them as handouts for webdesign and internet courses. The LDP does get some docs this way, from people like RedHat and other engineers who had to document certain systems for their design teams (thus recouping costs) but the vast majority of our Howtos are just friendly gifts and anecdotal personal experiences. What I want is a model whereby the people who do have an itch to scratch by having good docs (the publishers) can fold all or parts of that effort back into the LDP for the benefit of those who cannot afford or otherwise have no access to the books (or even just so they can properly evaluate a book) T> The donating whole works thing is a whole different subject. If T> a publisher, as copyright holder of a work, wants to provide T> their work to the LDP with a license that allows free online T> publishing but restricted paper publishing then that is T> entirely their perogative. I would welcome that, but I would T> oppose any move to attempt to make any other LDP documents T> conform to that style of license. Yes, exactly. Perhaps we have been talking about the same thing from the same side but using different words. I am not advocating slapping an OPL Option-B on _all_ LDP documents. When I mentioned corporate adoption of documents, I meant *big* documents, those of whole book proportions. If, say, ORA were to adopt the SAG and make it into a first class book, cool diagrams, accomodating all the major distros, and their rule was they would let us ship it out on the web, ftp and CDROM but we are prevented from printing, binding and marketing it (all three together; just printing for person or course-study use is still allowed), then is there a problem? T> The LDP has to make a decision as to what constitutes an T> acceptable document for inclusion within its charter. Yes, exactly. Let me be more direct: I am working with a dozen authors to create what I see as the missing functional specifications document for the Linux kernel. I nagged and nagged and nagged MCP until they agreed to let me publish under OPL Option-B, but now I am worried this will be for naught, and since the LDP may not accept the document --- I am also finding many very good authors reluctant to participate for fear of LDP reprisals. T> I think all you're really trying to say is that you believe the T> LDP should leave enough flexibility in its minimum licensing T> standards to accomodate the model you describe. Yes. If Lucent wants to donate a binary kernel module for their winmodem, do we refuse it? It's a similar situation only they are not saying we cannot modify the content to improve it, only that they are the official maintainer until they say otherwise (which is true of all LDP submissions) and that they are restricting the document from being used against them in the marketplace. I believe the LDP should encourage the free flow of information and accomodate Linux education. When a sprout meets a stone, that is only one of many degrees of freedom lost, and I see the interim solution of New Riders, ORA, Sams, Coriolis and others using Option-B to protect their investment as only the loss of one degree out of many. I believe this clause only exists to frustrate other publishers, ie, like the reason Sun and HP &c endorsed open source in X11: To protect them against their own kind. It does not seem likely to me that your typical LDP users would *want* to snarf an entire book and market it in direct competition with an ORA edition. I admit it is a loss of a single freedom, but it doesn't seem to me to be a freedom anyone would miss. T> Let me ask you a question. It's fairly obvious what the T> advantages are to the publisher in having a document branded an T> official LDP work and having exclusive publishing rights, but T> what's in it for the LDP or the greater Linux community to have T> a document branded an official LDP document but with T> restrictions placed on its publishing in physical form? I see several advantages for the LDP, and huge advantages to the Linux community. Of course, I tend to see lots of things and that is probably due to all those hundreds of acid hits in my youth. An immediate advantage is having professionally crafted and current material in our body of work. When someone searches the LDP, they find these documents, and hopefully find the answer to their question. In the Windows world, the 'Knowledge Base' provides a one-stop shop for end-user information (ie, if the KB doesn't have it, no one will, even though the latter condition is the most common ;) Down the road, when all docs are XML and we have the tools to deal with it, one doc can lead to other related docs and even small fragments can be instantly updated across the board --- it will become unthinkable that a question about Linux cannot be answered by the LDP. Another advantage is in having readable docs. There are notable exceptions, but as a rule, our current opus is very badly written and naively organized ... but we never ever complain because they are gifts and we can usually figure out what they meant to say. Not that books are guaranteed to be better ;) but they do have teams of people whose full-time profession is to ensure documents are accurate and readable, ie tech reviewers, language reviewers, translators ... all of their skills are in producing documentation. We can leverage those skills for the benefit of the Linux community. The long term advantage is relationship building. If we can bind together all the publishers such that they lose their fear of each other and can work together, we can eventually apply their talents to all of the LDP docs, and without the Option B restriction because they will see the integrity of our collection as their best resource --- right now, the LDP is what sells every publisher's books precisely because of its obtuseness. T> The ability to read the document online but not to be able to T> print it? Option-B only removes the right to bind it into a book for resale. That is very different from banning all printouts. OPL allows a teacher to print out sections for use in a course, or to include it on RH, LSL or Infomagic CDs, or to ship it to other mirror sites. Option B is only to protect them from having their investment scooped and leveraged against them in the marketplace by other publishers. T> It seems like a fairly one-sided arrangement to me. Let me play Devil's Advocate: You could just as well say publishers are giving away everything and getting nothing they couldn't already take for free. I was greeted with polite shock when I contacted the LDP to tell them we were including an entire doc in one of our books; yes, I'd read and understood the licence, but it seemed to me the polite thing to do. All the LDP really offers is a brand name, and that name can be replaced by another (anyone remember Mosaic? Simtel? Decwrl?) And some, like ORA, already have a very good name. Why should they bother with the LDP? Why burn their profits just so the LDP can have some nice timely doc updates? Why should Corliolis fund revisions for your benefit? Each publisher probably puts out more lines of text per year than the entire LDP. I can't speak for any of them, but I can relay the exact words of the senior publisher for the Waite Group: "I could publish 'cooking with Linux and it would sell', but I don't want to do that. I want to do it right" It is the cause of righteousness, the infectious community-support aspect of open source that attracts them --- that they are attracted to the LDP is just a lucky co-incidence for us (if we choose to seize it). They see that they take so much from the community, they see that this community does not even require them to say 'thanks' and they want to give something back; they look to the LDP as their closest brethren because we are all in the same line of work. Are they so different from the rest of us? It all comes back to the mandate of the LDP. If the mission of the LDP is to foster only 100% free documentation, then no, there is no advantage to any such partnership, and publishers and the LDP must always be in direct competition with each other. If, on the other hand, the LDP mission is to foster Linux education, then I believe we have as much to gain as the Kernel had to gain from corporate support from SGI and Compaq: We gain the mutually beneficial pooling of our knowledge with the technical publishing and document management skills we are missing, all working together to help make the LDP into an even better resource for the Linux community. Please keep in mind that I am not a publisher, nor do I speak for one. I don't even pretend to be one on TV. My vision of LDP/corporate cooperation makes sense to me only under the banner of serving the Linux user community interests; you only need to watch a day's worth of comp.os.linux.setup to see how we fail to provide what the community needs. I still may be completely off the wall and the whole notion of a master Linux documentation project may not be feasible, practical, or even desirable, to either publishers or the LDP. -- Gary Lawrence Murphy TeleDynamics Communications Inc Business Telecom Services : Internet Consulting : http://www.teledyn.com Linux Writers Workshop Archive: http://www.egroups.com/group/linux-hack/ "You don't play what you know; you play what you hear." -- (Miles Davis) From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id PAA26115 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:53:16 +1000 Received: (qmail 13514 invoked by uid 38); 22 Sep 1999 05:53:05 -0000 Resent-Date: 22 Sep 1999 05:53:05 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: garym@maya.dyndns.org Sender: garym@mail.wccweb.com To: Terry Dawson Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: [off topic] Re: Licensing issues References: <199909202101.HAA16947@albert.animats.net> <19990921102713.C17878@albert.animats.net> <19990922085238.B24076@albert.animats.net> From: Gary Lawrence Murphy Date: 22 Sep 1999 01:51:57 -0400 Message-ID: Reply-To: Gary Lawrence Murphy Organization: TeleDynamics --- the Art of Being There X-Url: http://www.teledyn.com/ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/537 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org >>>>> "T" == Terry Dawson writes: T> It was a move to more freedom, the only change was that it T> allowed a use that wasn't allowed before. I don't see how any T> reasonable description of freedom, or more or less suggests T> that is a restriction of freedom. The LGPL removed all those 'derived' works from being bound by the GPL. Thus, it had the result of encouraging developers to work on non-free software. So in this sense, no, it did not restrict freedoms, it just encouraged less free software development. At least, that was the arguement at the time. In retrospect, GCC did not become the industrial standard C compiler until _after_ the LGPL. Similarly, Linux distros who include non-free software are giving the message that non-free is required to complete the picture, and also removing the need to develop good free software. I don't entirely agree with this scenario, but this is my reading of the RMS papers on gnu.org and our correspondence. His argument has merit, but I don't think it is practical as dogma even when there are no viable free alternatives. The same is true for docs. Non or partially free licences are a transitional stage. T> The GPL will and does work for documents in exactly the same T> way. If you want to take portions of any of my documents and T> combine them with portions of other documents the other T> documents have to have licenses that are GPL compatible. If software is derived from GPL software, that software must be GPL and while it can be more free, it cannot be less free. If, on the other hand, research for a book is based on LDP documents and makes copious quotes, correcting commentary and grammar, and then making logical references to it to support a new point not found in the original (ie function call equivalents, corrected functional definitions, and new higher-level functions), then, by the GPL, can you sell that book? If a study course (an application) is based on a document, and the professor likewise corrects and extends the material, can you charge a fee for that course under the GPL? If Eric Raymond speaks to a room full of engineers using modified ideas of the GPL licenced documents, can he charge for the appearance? Can he charge for a book containing his talk? The whole notion of "derived/extended" and mere use (ie LGPL) in natural language is very, very murky. What if someone were to take an LDP document and transform it into a politically slanted work in conflict with the aims of the LDP, say, for example, to change it to highlight the shortcomings of some core Linux system such as KPPP? It could become a Microsoft sales tool. Because software has no 'implied' meanings or grades of truth, such a derived work could be attributed to the LDP under the GPL. For the same reason Salvador Dali threw a bathtub through Macy's window, authors seek control over changes of content, and some control over uses, and these are issues which do not occur in software (where the only measure of correctness is "bug-free") >> But only the restriction on book-publishing, while opening up >> the free distribution of all material for all other avenues. T> They're already open. There is no gain there. I see this as the first problem of the LDP: How do we stay current? Docs are not open if there are none. Unlike software, we don't have a pressing need for correct docs; an engineer is not stopped in their tracks if the SMP-Howto is not correct, but they are stopped if the SMP implementation is buggy. There is an itch to drive the creation of software because the use of that software can be translated directly into a business model to pay for the investment. There is no such carrot on a stick for documents: Far more than software patches, LDP docs are a total selfless gift from the author. Some of my own (non-Linux) documents (now published under the OPL) were written under contract for other purposes (teaching of courses, whitepapers for clients) and thus, because I had recouped the cost of producting these papers, I had no problems donating them for any use whatsoever. I was tickled pink when I learned two universities had printed them as handouts for webdesign and internet courses. The LDP does get some docs this way, from people like RedHat and other engineers who had to document certain systems for their design teams (thus recouping costs) but the vast majority of our Howtos are just friendly gifts and anecdotal personal experiences. What I want is a model whereby the people who do have an itch to scratch by having good docs (the publishers) can fold all or parts of that effort back into the LDP for the benefit of those who cannot afford or otherwise have no access to the books (or even just so they can properly evaluate a book) T> The donating whole works thing is a whole different subject. If T> a publisher, as copyright holder of a work, wants to provide T> their work to the LDP with a license that allows free online T> publishing but restricted paper publishing then that is T> entirely their perogative. I would welcome that, but I would T> oppose any move to attempt to make any other LDP documents T> conform to that style of license. Yes, exactly. Perhaps we have been talking about the same thing from the same side but using different words. I am not advocating slapping an OPL Option-B on _all_ LDP documents. When I mentioned corporate adoption of documents, I meant *big* documents, those of whole book proportions. If, say, ORA were to adopt the SAG and make it into a first class book, cool diagrams, accomodating all the major distros, and their rule was they would let us ship it out on the web, ftp and CDROM but we are prevented from printing, binding and marketing it (all three together; just printing for person or course-study use is still allowed), then is there a problem? T> The LDP has to make a decision as to what constitutes an T> acceptable document for inclusion within its charter. Yes, exactly. Let me be more direct: I am working with a dozen authors to create what I see as the missing functional specifications document for the Linux kernel. I nagged and nagged and nagged MCP until they agreed to let me publish under OPL Option-B, but now I am worried this will be for naught, and since the LDP may not accept the document --- I am also finding many very good authors reluctant to participate for fear of LDP reprisals. T> I think all you're really trying to say is that you believe the T> LDP should leave enough flexibility in its minimum licensing T> standards to accomodate the model you describe. Yes. If Lucent wants to donate a binary kernel module for their winmodem, do we refuse it? It's a similar situation only they are not saying we cannot modify the content to improve it, only that they are the official maintainer until they say otherwise (which is true of all LDP submissions) and that they are restricting the document from being used against them in the marketplace. I believe the LDP should encourage the free flow of information and accomodate Linux education. When a sprout meets a stone, that is only one of many degrees of freedom lost, and I see the interim solution of New Riders, ORA, Sams, Coriolis and others using Option-B to protect their investment as only the loss of one degree out of many. I believe this clause only exists to frustrate other publishers, ie, like the reason Sun and HP &c endorsed open source in X11: To protect them against their own kind. It does not seem likely to me that your typical LDP users would *want* to snarf an entire book and market it in direct competition with an ORA edition. I admit it is a loss of a single freedom, but it doesn't seem to me to be a freedom anyone would miss. T> Let me ask you a question. It's fairly obvious what the T> advantages are to the publisher in having a document branded an T> official LDP work and having exclusive publishing rights, but T> what's in it for the LDP or the greater Linux community to have T> a document branded an official LDP document but with T> restrictions placed on its publishing in physical form? I see several advantages for the LDP, and huge advantages to the Linux community. Of course, I tend to see lots of things and that is probably due to all those hundreds of acid hits in my youth. An immediate advantage is having professionally crafted and current material in our body of work. When someone searches the LDP, they find these documents, and hopefully find the answer to their question. In the Windows world, the 'Knowledge Base' provides a one-stop shop for end-user information (ie, if the KB doesn't have it, no one will, even though the latter condition is the most common ;) Down the road, when all docs are XML and we have the tools to deal with it, one doc can lead to other related docs and even small fragments can be instantly updated across the board --- it will become unthinkable that a question about Linux cannot be answered by the LDP. Another advantage is in having readable docs. There are notable exceptions, but as a rule, our current opus is very badly written and naively organized ... but we never ever complain because they are gifts and we can usually figure out what they meant to say. Not that books are guaranteed to be better ;) but they do have teams of people whose full-time profession is to ensure documents are accurate and readable, ie tech reviewers, language reviewers, translators ... all of their skills are in producing documentation. We can leverage those skills for the benefit of the Linux community. The long term advantage is relationship building. If we can bind together all the publishers such that they lose their fear of each other and can work together, we can eventually apply their talents to all of the LDP docs, and without the Option B restriction because they will see the integrity of our collection as their best resource --- right now, the LDP is what sells every publisher's books precisely because of its obtuseness. T> The ability to read the document online but not to be able to T> print it? Option-B only removes the right to bind it into a book for resale. That is very different from banning all printouts. OPL allows a teacher to print out sections for use in a course, or to include it on RH, LSL or Infomagic CDs, or to ship it to other mirror sites. Option B is only to protect them from having their investment scooped and leveraged against them in the marketplace by other publishers. T> It seems like a fairly one-sided arrangement to me. Let me play Devil's Advocate: You could just as well say publishers are giving away everything and getting nothing they couldn't already take for free. I was greeted with polite shock when I contacted the LDP to tell them we were including an entire doc in one of our books; yes, I'd read and understood the licence, but it seemed to me the polite thing to do. All the LDP really offers is a brand name, and that name can be replaced by another (anyone remember Mosaic? Simtel? Decwrl?) And some, like ORA, already have a very good name. Why should they bother with the LDP? Why burn their profits just so the LDP can have some nice timely doc updates? Why should Corliolis fund revisions for your benefit? Each publisher probably puts out more lines of text per year than the entire LDP. I can't speak for any of them, but I can relay the exact words of the senior publisher for the Waite Group: "I could publish 'cooking with Linux and it would sell', but I don't want to do that. I want to do it right" It is the cause of righteousness, the infectious community-support aspect of open source that attracts them --- that they are attracted to the LDP is just a lucky co-incidence for us (if we choose to seize it). They see that they take so much from the community, they see that this community does not even require them to say 'thanks' and they want to give something back; they look to the LDP as their closest brethren because we are all in the same line of work. Are they so different from the rest of us? It all comes back to the mandate of the LDP. If the mission of the LDP is to foster only 100% free documentation, then no, there is no advantage to any such partnership, and publishers and the LDP must always be in direct competition with each other. If, on the other hand, the LDP mission is to foster Linux education, then I believe we have as much to gain as the Kernel had to gain from corporate support from SGI and Compaq: We gain the mutually beneficial pooling of our knowledge with the technical publishing and document management skills we are missing, all working together to help make the LDP into an even better resource for the Linux community. Please keep in mind that I am not a publisher, nor do I speak for one. I don't even pretend to be one on TV. My vision of LDP/corporate cooperation makes sense to me only under the banner of serving the Linux user community interests; you only need to watch a day's worth of comp.os.linux.setup to see how we fail to provide what the community needs. I still may be completely off the wall and the whole notion of a master Linux documentation project may not be feasible, practical, or even desirable, to either publishers or the LDP. -- Gary Lawrence Murphy TeleDynamics Communications Inc Business Telecom Services : Internet Consulting : http://www.teledyn.com Linux Writers Workshop Archive: http://www.egroups.com/group/linux-hack/ "You don't play what you know; you play what you hear." -- (Miles Davis) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from smtp2.free.fr (root@smtp2.free.fr [212.27.32.6]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id HAA30249 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 07:03:26 +1000 Received: from victis.oeil.qc.ca (toulouse-59-241.dial.proxad.net [212.27.59.241]) by smtp2.free.fr (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id XAA08797; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 23:03:12 +0200 Received: from guylhem by victis.oeil.qc.ca with local (Exim 3.02 #3) id 11Tk5h-0000Fy-00; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:57:37 +0200 Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:57:37 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: Terry Dawson Cc: Gary Lawrence Murphy , ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: [off topic] Re: Licensing issues Message-ID: <19990922125737.A965@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: <199909202101.HAA16947@albert.animats.net> <19990921102713.C17878@albert.animats.net> <19990922085238.B24076@albert.animats.net> <19990922172230.A26291@albert.animats.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="/04w6evG8XlLl3ft"; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <19990922172230.A26291@albert.animats.net>; from Terry Dawson on Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 05:22:30PM +1000 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 --/04w6evG8XlLl3ft Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 05:22:30PM +1000, Terry Dawson wrote: > I believe the LDP could better meet the needs of the community by > implementing some structure, standards and process. It has always had > some of those things, but I don't believe they've kept up with > community expectations. The LDP has failed to evolve. We're trying to. BTW, ldp-submit mailing list is working now, could some QC volunteers subscribe (mail ldp-submit-request) to start checking submitted documents ? Tim, I suggest you now only allow documents submitted to ldp-submit (forward to ldp-submit the docs you receive directly) > As I somewhat cynically suggested in another mail message, the LDP does n= ot > have any sort of agreed decision making process. We can talk and talk and= talk > but nothing will happen until people do things and they're either quietly > accepted or they produce debate. Please make clear suggestions we'll discuss and, if we agree, adopt. For the licensing problems you have been talking about, I now strongly believe the DGPL as a single license could fix all that. I'm not saying we should change the license of each current document, but we should consider accepting only DGPL'ed documents in the future. Why ? The DGPL has no major flaw, has been written especially for the documentation, and it can change if we request it. It's the license that best fit LDP needs in all the licenses I've read so far : it protects the document, the author, and is designed for our current problems (collaboration with commercial printers, merging, forking versions...) > That's how it works isn't it? I don't want to impose anything, but if there's too much disagreements, or discussions that leads to nothing, I'm sorry but I will have to decide what I think is the best solution for the LDP. It's not an easy task, but we *need* some changes. --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Save East Timor: http://altern.org/spoirier/timor.html http://www.pst-timor= .org --/04w6evG8XlLl3ft Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN+i2Id+QeWug/qfFAQGvYwP5AVccOl2Lx+KLRcEJtISKg7fh9XbcP2vA Ki8PpNpnkGVydkYm8daebJ27h37E+scGvCq/U/vyY3jBXAZdr5gDGHxEgTPE9D8t YSCH3mZ3UyEXPsMfZEHaVRPeLjIfRtMpXHUbtUcLdu4+dOTS+vrOTxgDkrJlnhmp QpTXf1Wrlh8= =Royo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --/04w6evG8XlLl3ft-- From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id HAA30304 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 07:15:35 +1000 Received: (qmail 31375 invoked by uid 38); 22 Sep 1999 21:11:46 -0000 Resent-Date: 22 Sep 1999 21:11:45 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: guylhem@terram.oeil.qc.ca Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:57:37 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: Terry Dawson Cc: Gary Lawrence Murphy , ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: [off topic] Re: Licensing issues Message-ID: <19990922125737.A965@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: <199909202101.HAA16947@albert.animats.net> <19990921102713.C17878@albert.animats.net> <19990922085238.B24076@albert.animats.net> <19990922172230.A26291@albert.animats.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="/04w6evG8XlLl3ft"; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <19990922172230.A26291@albert.animats.net>; from Terry Dawson on Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 05:22:30PM +1000 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/540 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org --/04w6evG8XlLl3ft Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 05:22:30PM +1000, Terry Dawson wrote: > I believe the LDP could better meet the needs of the community by > implementing some structure, standards and process. It has always had > some of those things, but I don't believe they've kept up with > community expectations. The LDP has failed to evolve. We're trying to. BTW, ldp-submit mailing list is working now, could some QC volunteers subscribe (mail ldp-submit-request) to start checking submitted documents ? Tim, I suggest you now only allow documents submitted to ldp-submit (forward to ldp-submit the docs you receive directly) > As I somewhat cynically suggested in another mail message, the LDP does n= ot > have any sort of agreed decision making process. We can talk and talk and= talk > but nothing will happen until people do things and they're either quietly > accepted or they produce debate. Please make clear suggestions we'll discuss and, if we agree, adopt. For the licensing problems you have been talking about, I now strongly believe the DGPL as a single license could fix all that. I'm not saying we should change the license of each current document, but we should consider accepting only DGPL'ed documents in the future. Why ? The DGPL has no major flaw, has been written especially for the documentation, and it can change if we request it. It's the license that best fit LDP needs in all the licenses I've read so far : it protects the document, the author, and is designed for our current problems (collaboration with commercial printers, merging, forking versions...) > That's how it works isn't it? I don't want to impose anything, but if there's too much disagreements, or discussions that leads to nothing, I'm sorry but I will have to decide what I think is the best solution for the LDP. It's not an easy task, but we *need* some changes. --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Save East Timor: http://altern.org/spoirier/timor.html http://www.pst-timor= .org --/04w6evG8XlLl3ft Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN+i2Id+QeWug/qfFAQGvYwP5AVccOl2Lx+KLRcEJtISKg7fh9XbcP2vA Ki8PpNpnkGVydkYm8daebJ27h37E+scGvCq/U/vyY3jBXAZdr5gDGHxEgTPE9D8t YSCH3mZ3UyEXPsMfZEHaVRPeLjIfRtMpXHUbtUcLdu4+dOTS+vrOTxgDkrJlnhmp QpTXf1Wrlh8= =Royo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --/04w6evG8XlLl3ft-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from maya.dyndns.org (IDENT:root@ts1-38.owns.interhop.net [165.154.232.102]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id PAA32510 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:05:50 +1000 Received: (from garym@localhost) by maya.dyndns.org (8.9.3/8.9.1/hvv-redhat) id WAA11351; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 22:05:33 -0700 Sender: garym@mail.wccweb.com To: Terry Dawson Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: [off topic] Re: Licensing issues References: <199909202101.HAA16947@albert.animats.net> <19990921102713.C17878@albert.animats.net> <19990922085238.B24076@albert.animats.net> <19990922172230.A26291@albert.animats.net> From: Gary Lawrence Murphy Date: 23 Sep 1999 01:05:33 -0400 Message-ID: Reply-To: Gary Lawrence Murphy Organization: TeleDynamics --- the Art of Being There X-Url: http://www.teledyn.com/ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>>>> "T" == Terry Dawson writes: T> The GPL doesn't talk about cost in a dollar sense. Of course T> you can sell those things. The question should be: Should those T> derived works be covered by GPL? It's the "2B or not 2B" :) meaning of course, paragraph 2b of the GPL (1991) T> To be GPL compliant it would have to also contain obvious T> notice that you've modified the work. True, but the work retains its lineage. If I modify XBill, it has a different face, but the logic is still just the logic. In words, I can change the logic dramatically with the insertion of just a few words, and it still 'works' >> I see this as the first problem of the LDP: How do we stay >> current? T> User demand, how do book publishers stay current? Then visit comp.os.linux.setup. The demand is huge. They are screaming for new docs. What modem *do* I use for mgetty? Don't tell me the XyZel, because it has long since ceased to exist. Publishers meet the demand. The 185th most popular book in all of Amazon last month was a Linux book. The author made several thousand dollars per month basically just doing what the LDP should do: Teach the basics of installing and running a Linux machine. T> Bah, I don't know how many or of what sort of HOWTO you've T> maintained, but I can assure you part of the reason I handed T> mine off to other people was because the work load was just too T> high, not with keeping the document up to date, but with T> responding to questions that people had of things they didn't T> understand, or that I'd gotten wrong, or with suggestions for T> things that should be included. Exactly. Now, what if you were being paid to fix it, and someone else first filtered out the "I didn't understand" comments. This is what happens with publishers. We finish a book and no sooner does it get to the bookstores when the publisher calls back for a revision. The royalties on such a book can easily be several thousand dollars per month. THe author of the 1989 "Unix Primer" still gets a nice $400 cheque every single month. It helps take the sting out of the bother. Now, if your howto was software, you'd want your copy to perform better, so if someon sent you a patch to improve the algorithm, you'd use it in a flash. Because your howto was a gift, you gave it and then had to hand it off because it no longer served any purpose for you but bother. T> There is a healthy community of LDP consumers out there who do T> actively contribute to the accuracy and updating of documents. And they are to be commended! I have also hired several to work on book projects because I want to see some of those royalty dollars going to reinforce their very generous behaviour. T> I don't believe that either. We all write/maintain documents T> for a variety of reasons. My prime motivation was to appease a T> conscience upset at not being skilled/positioned to contribute That just renames the same thing. You gave a gift. You didn't do it for yourself and your clients didn't pay for it. You paid for it and gave it as a gift. Out of guilt, perhaps, but it is still a gift. (thank you) T> ... That has intrinsic value that I believe is T> quite similar to what most of the software authors achieve. No. Some software, but not the really good stuff. GCC for example has contributors from every major computer house in the world. Emacs is also a who's who of commercial software engineering. Linux is constantly improved to scratch real itches. It's noble to think of lone hackers in their basements working selflessly for the good of mankind, but the reality is the vast majority of good free software is written by and for the people who need it for real, tangible and bottom-line-dollar reasons. Even in university research, we used GCC to save us the cost of SGI C, and hacked at it to support GL (that was before openGL) T> I think such a model would be great if there is an equitable T> return on the endorsement that such works receive by being able T> to claim any sense of officialness from the LDP. I believe that comes from having the LDP authors write it. This is why anyone involved int the LDP is a hot target for publishers when they go to a Linux expo. They have the machinery to publish, but need the knowledge, we have the knowledge, but need the machinery (which includes the financing) T> People tend not to want to read large works online. I don't see T> the LDP or the community gaining much by being to publish a T> document online that isn't readily consumable in that form. Then why are the pre-release books at ORA and MCP so popular? Is it because people want to know a book is good before they buy it, or are they like me and distrust books until repeated use of the online version tells me it is more economical to just go buy it. For example, I want to learn some DTD, and the online docs stink. The 'answer' given in the mailing lists is "wait for my book" but i have no reassurance from the online docs that the printed edition will be any better organized than the current docs. For example, having tags defined out of context in alphabetical order does not solve any of my use-cases. T> I believe the community takes licensing issues seriously as a T> general rule. I don't believe the community is necessarily T> well versed in the technicality of licensing though, and that T> it will err on the side of caution == freedom where there is T> any doubt. Certainly I will. We are solving that :) On of my authors is teaming with a legal expert to write a book on open source licences. T> Hmm.. I think hardware vendors who distribute binary only T> kernel modules will find growing resistance and pressure to T> release source. Do such binary modules get included with T> Linux's kernel source or endorsed by him? You see? Even you appeal to the 'official kernel' :) I will wager that the first winmodem module, even if binary, will get wide distribution on Linux CDs by all distros. The itch is too great not to scratch it. T> The reality of the situation will probably be a diversity of T> works sitting somewhere within that spectrum. All the while, T> the publishers are able to claim implicit endorsement by the T> LDP while the Linux community gets a work that it can read T> online, or perhaps print for itself, both of which are T> impractical because of the size/nature of the work. Would you really even consider printing an entire book? I don't even print entire HowTo's ... I just print the parts I need. If I gave you my Kernel book, would you need the SMP chapter? What if all you needed was the SMP chapter? What if all you needed was one table in the SMP chapter? T> I think if publishing companies feel strongly about that, that T> they should do it, without expecting/requiring endorsement from T> the LDP. I'm sure the LDP would be happy to maintain an index T> of material published online in this fashion without making any T> claims that those works were works of the LDP. Then let's see it because ORA, NewRiders, Coriolis and Sams are already doing this. T> Several independent publishers of LDP material exist in T> countries around the world. I do believe they would be missed. To repeat, I am not advocating a blanket policy on all docs, just on these that are 'donated' by the publishers. The micro-publishers of the SAG &c can still do that. Also, the licence says you cannot publish "without permission" and there are many precidents for such permission. T> ... unless you are proposing that T> the LDP additionally have the right to select/refuse T> incorporation of particular documents or that it have some T> mandate to determine what documents a publisher will produce. Oh, wouldn't that be something! Why wouldn't it work? It works for Linux CD's T> I appreciate the value of having access to those skills. Still, T> if you're a volunatary author sometimes the last thing you want T> is somebody telling you that this sentence is unclear and T> perhaps you ought to mention fardnargle there. So don't work on these projects. It is that simple. Stick to producing little handouts. No one is saying all docs must fall under this plan. T> The publishers will want control. Oh and the LDP wouldn't? ;) That is what a relationship is all about! T> Yes they are, and you yourself have already pointed out why. T> Motive. No motive. They are racking in cash now, all of them. They don't need the LDP's endorsement, really. Even MIS publishes Linux books. All they need do is gain endorsements from any of a thousand other Linux orgs. BTW: Exactly how many publishers have proposed this arrangement? Remember that I am not speaking for a publisher, but just talking about one that I know. Are they really beating down your door? So far, I have been on this list for a month and have not seen a single mention of any such deals. T> The LDP barely exists. I truly don't know why some group of T> like-minded people haven't gone off an established their own T> Linux documentation project, picked a catchy name, developed T> some sort of constitution and actively sought to encourage T> existing author to defect or at the very least contribute to T> both. Hmmm ... "opendoc.org" appears to be taken (the webpage is a placeholder) I know of several such projects outside of the Linux world. The LDP has the advantage that all the publishers have it stuck in their heads you are it: Just about every book on the shelves lists you as a primary reference for "more information", in many cases, because the author really didn't understand that part of their book ;) T> if (stalled) diverge(); else unify(); T> That's how it works isn't it? provided no one has set a SIGALRM :) -- Gary Lawrence Murphy TeleDynamics Communications Inc Business Telecom Services : Internet Consulting : http://www.teledyn.com Linux Writers Workshop Archive: http://www.egroups.com/group/linux-hack/ "You don't play what you know; you play what you hear." -- (Miles Davis) From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id PAA32520 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:06:43 +1000 Received: (qmail 21523 invoked by uid 38); 23 Sep 1999 05:06:30 -0000 Resent-Date: 23 Sep 1999 05:06:30 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: garym@maya.dyndns.org Sender: garym@mail.wccweb.com To: Terry Dawson Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: [off topic] Re: Licensing issues References: <199909202101.HAA16947@albert.animats.net> <19990921102713.C17878@albert.animats.net> <19990922085238.B24076@albert.animats.net> <19990922172230.A26291@albert.animats.net> From: Gary Lawrence Murphy Date: 23 Sep 1999 01:05:33 -0400 Message-ID: Reply-To: Gary Lawrence Murphy Organization: TeleDynamics --- the Art of Being There X-Url: http://www.teledyn.com/ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <0pZPhB.A.AQF.WVb63@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/541 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org >>>>> "T" == Terry Dawson writes: T> The GPL doesn't talk about cost in a dollar sense. Of course T> you can sell those things. The question should be: Should those T> derived works be covered by GPL? It's the "2B or not 2B" :) meaning of course, paragraph 2b of the GPL (1991) T> To be GPL compliant it would have to also contain obvious T> notice that you've modified the work. True, but the work retains its lineage. If I modify XBill, it has a different face, but the logic is still just the logic. In words, I can change the logic dramatically with the insertion of just a few words, and it still 'works' >> I see this as the first problem of the LDP: How do we stay >> current? T> User demand, how do book publishers stay current? Then visit comp.os.linux.setup. The demand is huge. They are screaming for new docs. What modem *do* I use for mgetty? Don't tell me the XyZel, because it has long since ceased to exist. Publishers meet the demand. The 185th most popular book in all of Amazon last month was a Linux book. The author made several thousand dollars per month basically just doing what the LDP should do: Teach the basics of installing and running a Linux machine. T> Bah, I don't know how many or of what sort of HOWTO you've T> maintained, but I can assure you part of the reason I handed T> mine off to other people was because the work load was just too T> high, not with keeping the document up to date, but with T> responding to questions that people had of things they didn't T> understand, or that I'd gotten wrong, or with suggestions for T> things that should be included. Exactly. Now, what if you were being paid to fix it, and someone else first filtered out the "I didn't understand" comments. This is what happens with publishers. We finish a book and no sooner does it get to the bookstores when the publisher calls back for a revision. The royalties on such a book can easily be several thousand dollars per month. THe author of the 1989 "Unix Primer" still gets a nice $400 cheque every single month. It helps take the sting out of the bother. Now, if your howto was software, you'd want your copy to perform better, so if someon sent you a patch to improve the algorithm, you'd use it in a flash. Because your howto was a gift, you gave it and then had to hand it off because it no longer served any purpose for you but bother. T> There is a healthy community of LDP consumers out there who do T> actively contribute to the accuracy and updating of documents. And they are to be commended! I have also hired several to work on book projects because I want to see some of those royalty dollars going to reinforce their very generous behaviour. T> I don't believe that either. We all write/maintain documents T> for a variety of reasons. My prime motivation was to appease a T> conscience upset at not being skilled/positioned to contribute That just renames the same thing. You gave a gift. You didn't do it for yourself and your clients didn't pay for it. You paid for it and gave it as a gift. Out of guilt, perhaps, but it is still a gift. (thank you) T> ... That has intrinsic value that I believe is T> quite similar to what most of the software authors achieve. No. Some software, but not the really good stuff. GCC for example has contributors from every major computer house in the world. Emacs is also a who's who of commercial software engineering. Linux is constantly improved to scratch real itches. It's noble to think of lone hackers in their basements working selflessly for the good of mankind, but the reality is the vast majority of good free software is written by and for the people who need it for real, tangible and bottom-line-dollar reasons. Even in university research, we used GCC to save us the cost of SGI C, and hacked at it to support GL (that was before openGL) T> I think such a model would be great if there is an equitable T> return on the endorsement that such works receive by being able T> to claim any sense of officialness from the LDP. I believe that comes from having the LDP authors write it. This is why anyone involved int the LDP is a hot target for publishers when they go to a Linux expo. They have the machinery to publish, but need the knowledge, we have the knowledge, but need the machinery (which includes the financing) T> People tend not to want to read large works online. I don't see T> the LDP or the community gaining much by being to publish a T> document online that isn't readily consumable in that form. Then why are the pre-release books at ORA and MCP so popular? Is it because people want to know a book is good before they buy it, or are they like me and distrust books until repeated use of the online version tells me it is more economical to just go buy it. For example, I want to learn some DTD, and the online docs stink. The 'answer' given in the mailing lists is "wait for my book" but i have no reassurance from the online docs that the printed edition will be any better organized than the current docs. For example, having tags defined out of context in alphabetical order does not solve any of my use-cases. T> I believe the community takes licensing issues seriously as a T> general rule. I don't believe the community is necessarily T> well versed in the technicality of licensing though, and that T> it will err on the side of caution == freedom where there is T> any doubt. Certainly I will. We are solving that :) On of my authors is teaming with a legal expert to write a book on open source licences. T> Hmm.. I think hardware vendors who distribute binary only T> kernel modules will find growing resistance and pressure to T> release source. Do such binary modules get included with T> Linux's kernel source or endorsed by him? You see? Even you appeal to the 'official kernel' :) I will wager that the first winmodem module, even if binary, will get wide distribution on Linux CDs by all distros. The itch is too great not to scratch it. T> The reality of the situation will probably be a diversity of T> works sitting somewhere within that spectrum. All the while, T> the publishers are able to claim implicit endorsement by the T> LDP while the Linux community gets a work that it can read T> online, or perhaps print for itself, both of which are T> impractical because of the size/nature of the work. Would you really even consider printing an entire book? I don't even print entire HowTo's ... I just print the parts I need. If I gave you my Kernel book, would you need the SMP chapter? What if all you needed was the SMP chapter? What if all you needed was one table in the SMP chapter? T> I think if publishing companies feel strongly about that, that T> they should do it, without expecting/requiring endorsement from T> the LDP. I'm sure the LDP would be happy to maintain an index T> of material published online in this fashion without making any T> claims that those works were works of the LDP. Then let's see it because ORA, NewRiders, Coriolis and Sams are already doing this. T> Several independent publishers of LDP material exist in T> countries around the world. I do believe they would be missed. To repeat, I am not advocating a blanket policy on all docs, just on these that are 'donated' by the publishers. The micro-publishers of the SAG &c can still do that. Also, the licence says you cannot publish "without permission" and there are many precidents for such permission. T> ... unless you are proposing that T> the LDP additionally have the right to select/refuse T> incorporation of particular documents or that it have some T> mandate to determine what documents a publisher will produce. Oh, wouldn't that be something! Why wouldn't it work? It works for Linux CD's T> I appreciate the value of having access to those skills. Still, T> if you're a volunatary author sometimes the last thing you want T> is somebody telling you that this sentence is unclear and T> perhaps you ought to mention fardnargle there. So don't work on these projects. It is that simple. Stick to producing little handouts. No one is saying all docs must fall under this plan. T> The publishers will want control. Oh and the LDP wouldn't? ;) That is what a relationship is all about! T> Yes they are, and you yourself have already pointed out why. T> Motive. No motive. They are racking in cash now, all of them. They don't need the LDP's endorsement, really. Even MIS publishes Linux books. All they need do is gain endorsements from any of a thousand other Linux orgs. BTW: Exactly how many publishers have proposed this arrangement? Remember that I am not speaking for a publisher, but just talking about one that I know. Are they really beating down your door? So far, I have been on this list for a month and have not seen a single mention of any such deals. T> The LDP barely exists. I truly don't know why some group of T> like-minded people haven't gone off an established their own T> Linux documentation project, picked a catchy name, developed T> some sort of constitution and actively sought to encourage T> existing author to defect or at the very least contribute to T> both. Hmmm ... "opendoc.org" appears to be taken (the webpage is a placeholder) I know of several such projects outside of the Linux world. The LDP has the advantage that all the publishers have it stuck in their heads you are it: Just about every book on the shelves lists you as a primary reference for "more information", in many cases, because the author really didn't understand that part of their book ;) T> if (stalled) diverge(); else unify(); T> That's how it works isn't it? provided no one has set a SIGALRM :) -- Gary Lawrence Murphy TeleDynamics Communications Inc Business Telecom Services : Internet Consulting : http://www.teledyn.com Linux Writers Workshop Archive: http://www.egroups.com/group/linux-hack/ "You don't play what you know; you play what you hear." -- (Miles Davis) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from crazypenguins.commandprompt.com (commandprompt.com [209.102.107.108]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id MAA07015 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:52:10 +1000 Received: from beta.linuxports.com (beta.linuxports.com [209.102.107.110]) by crazypenguins.commandprompt.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA06660; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 20:01:47 -0700 Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 20:01:47 -0700 (PDT) From: "Mr. Poet" X-Sender: jd@crazypenguins.commandprompt.com To: Terry Dawson cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org, ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org, recipient list not shown: ; Subject: Re: Comments on web site. In-Reply-To: <19990927124144.A6870@albert.animats.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello, This is useful, I will look at it and see if I can make it more apparent. Thank you Poet LinuxPorts - http://www.linuxports.com LDP - http://www.linuxdoc.org On Mon, 27 Sep 1999, Terry Dawson wrote: > On Sun, Sep 26, 1999 at 06:22:55PM -0700, Mr. Poet wrote: > > Uhmmm.... the link is 1 click... outside of putting the actual howt-howto > > on the main page I can not make it any shorter than that. > > > > Try clicking on: Contribute/Submit on the front page on the left hand > > side... > > The HOWTO is one click, but the actual relevant detail is not. > > One click gets me to the index of the HOWTO. > It's then not entirely obvious from the index where the actual information > I want is, but I'll guess at "distibuting your documentation" .. > and then tucked away is the single paragraph of information I wanted in > the first place .. > > regards > Terry > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org > From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from smtp2.free.fr (root@smtp2.free.fr [212.27.32.6]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id FAA11551 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 05:06:28 +1000 Received: from victis.oeil.qc.ca (toulouse-59-17.dial.proxad.net [212.27.59.17]) by smtp2.free.fr (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id VAA28311; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 21:06:11 +0200 Received: from guylhem by victis.oeil.qc.ca with local (Exim 3.02 #3) id 11VXLx-0000IS-00; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:45:49 +0200 Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:45:49 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: Terry Dawson Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Comments on web site. Message-ID: <19990927114549.A1132@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: <19990927094647.A5846@albert.animats.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=VbJkn9YxBvnuCH5J; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <19990927094647.A5846@albert.animats.net>; from Terry Dawson on Mon, Sep 27, 1999 at 09:46:47AM +1000 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 --VbJkn9YxBvnuCH5J Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Sep 27, 1999 at 09:46:47AM +1000, Terry Dawson wrote: > The information on how to submit a new or updated document is way way too > many clicks away. I had to go looking to find it. I suggest you put somet= hing I'll change my .sig to show it. > The LDP Manifesto has lost an important word from very first sentence of = its > Overview. What happened to "free" ? The goal of the LDP has always been to The manifesto will change soon. > http://www.linuxdoc.org/copyright.html is still incorrect, misleading and Will be replaced by the DGPL and a license guide for acceptable licenses. --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Save East Timor: http://altern.org/spoirier/timor.html http://www.pst-timor= .org --VbJkn9YxBvnuCH5J Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN+88zd+QeWug/qfFAQFPkwP+LI+2Y2l97PqdcXEJI8bnkS/esImYJ5fk mBOOQqanxJNcbf3T1WTDrW7PlmEO1PRvL6CUCDBRG7Bwnx+9vGisJQsVr6veMEgj fY7iOlFFY2N3dMl8RYL8FoRHGRgpd3ZqnZ8zgnvl4LyWBpWV4+QXK7binzE7hcuW xErexowEVJ0= =ujfx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --VbJkn9YxBvnuCH5J-- From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from smtp2.free.fr (root@smtp2.free.fr [212.27.32.6]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id FAA11552 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 05:06:28 +1000 Received: from victis.oeil.qc.ca (toulouse-59-17.dial.proxad.net [212.27.59.17]) by smtp2.free.fr (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id VAA28324; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 21:06:19 +0200 Received: from guylhem by victis.oeil.qc.ca with local (Exim 3.02 #3) id 11VXRI-0000Ik-00; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:51:20 +0200 Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:51:20 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: Terry Dawson Cc: LDP discuss Subject: Re: QC volunteers? (Was: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd)) Message-ID: <19990927115120.B1132@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: <19990926182106.B1752@victis.oeil.qc.ca> <19990927095101.A6047@albert.animats.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=qcHopEYAB45HaUaB; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <19990927095101.A6047@albert.animats.net>; from Terry Dawson on Mon, Sep 27, 1999 at 09:51:01AM +1000 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 --qcHopEYAB45HaUaB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Sep 27, 1999 at 09:51:01AM +1000, Terry Dawson wrote: > ... and then what? mutter comments into the winds? You'd better send them to ldp-submit and Cc the author :-) > Is there some document, that even briefly, describes the role and function > of the QC, what actions they should take, and how they should take them? It has been posted by Alessandro Rubini some weeks ago, clearly explaining the goals and the functions of the members. (BTW, could it be added to our site ?) > As an author I'm not interested in submitting a document for QC and having > ten responses telling me the same things. I'd like a single coordinated > response please. Otherwise I might just as well use the community at large > for QC as I always have. As a 'trusted' author (this is not your first time) I doubt anyone will reread your document, but you can request it if you want more immediate feedback. --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Save East Timor: http://altern.org/spoirier/timor.html http://www.pst-timor= .org --qcHopEYAB45HaUaB Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN+8+GN+QeWug/qfFAQE43wP8C39S6derl16IVGrqdwb1QBDjZKNYYyd7 F1ST6SzWwfQWxD/wpVYk3PQv1IE/OGZo096LQ4NC2vOKKZvliLM3AKrj0mEr9mMu WiORoEEu+KrMqATIeew1AdbLW6PlZ70t65wIxj9PRuUuOKiXs1RJXqqPEcDV8U/W InEUCRDl1gg= =E4Xu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --qcHopEYAB45HaUaB-- From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id FAA11639 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 05:23:38 +1000 Received: (qmail 29178 invoked by uid 38); 27 Sep 1999 19:06:43 -0000 Resent-Date: 27 Sep 1999 19:06:43 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: guylhem@terram.oeil.qc.ca Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:51:20 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: Terry Dawson Cc: LDP discuss Subject: Re: QC volunteers? (Was: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd)) Message-ID: <19990927115120.B1132@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: <19990926182106.B1752@victis.oeil.qc.ca> <19990927095101.A6047@albert.animats.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=qcHopEYAB45HaUaB; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <19990927095101.A6047@albert.animats.net>; from Terry Dawson on Mon, Sep 27, 1999 at 09:51:01AM +1000 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/613 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org --qcHopEYAB45HaUaB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Sep 27, 1999 at 09:51:01AM +1000, Terry Dawson wrote: > ... and then what? mutter comments into the winds? You'd better send them to ldp-submit and Cc the author :-) > Is there some document, that even briefly, describes the role and function > of the QC, what actions they should take, and how they should take them? It has been posted by Alessandro Rubini some weeks ago, clearly explaining the goals and the functions of the members. (BTW, could it be added to our site ?) > As an author I'm not interested in submitting a document for QC and having > ten responses telling me the same things. I'd like a single coordinated > response please. Otherwise I might just as well use the community at large > for QC as I always have. As a 'trusted' author (this is not your first time) I doubt anyone will reread your document, but you can request it if you want more immediate feedback. --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Save East Timor: http://altern.org/spoirier/timor.html http://www.pst-timor= .org --qcHopEYAB45HaUaB Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN+8+GN+QeWug/qfFAQE43wP8C39S6derl16IVGrqdwb1QBDjZKNYYyd7 F1ST6SzWwfQWxD/wpVYk3PQv1IE/OGZo096LQ4NC2vOKKZvliLM3AKrj0mEr9mMu WiORoEEu+KrMqATIeew1AdbLW6PlZ70t65wIxj9PRuUuOKiXs1RJXqqPEcDV8U/W InEUCRDl1gg= =E4Xu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --qcHopEYAB45HaUaB-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id FAA11646 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 05:23:44 +1000 Received: (qmail 29245 invoked by uid 38); 27 Sep 1999 19:06:46 -0000 Resent-Date: 27 Sep 1999 19:06:45 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: guylhem@terram.oeil.qc.ca Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:45:49 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: Terry Dawson Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Comments on web site. Message-ID: <19990927114549.A1132@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: <19990927094647.A5846@albert.animats.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=VbJkn9YxBvnuCH5J; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <19990927094647.A5846@albert.animats.net>; from Terry Dawson on Mon, Sep 27, 1999 at 09:46:47AM +1000 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/614 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org --VbJkn9YxBvnuCH5J Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Sep 27, 1999 at 09:46:47AM +1000, Terry Dawson wrote: > The information on how to submit a new or updated document is way way too > many clicks away. I had to go looking to find it. I suggest you put somet= hing I'll change my .sig to show it. > The LDP Manifesto has lost an important word from very first sentence of = its > Overview. What happened to "free" ? The goal of the LDP has always been to The manifesto will change soon. > http://www.linuxdoc.org/copyright.html is still incorrect, misleading and Will be replaced by the DGPL and a license guide for acceptable licenses. --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Save East Timor: http://altern.org/spoirier/timor.html http://www.pst-timor= .org --VbJkn9YxBvnuCH5J Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN+88zd+QeWug/qfFAQFPkwP+LI+2Y2l97PqdcXEJI8bnkS/esImYJ5fk mBOOQqanxJNcbf3T1WTDrW7PlmEO1PRvL6CUCDBRG7Bwnx+9vGisJQsVr6veMEgj fY7iOlFFY2N3dMl8RYL8FoRHGRgpd3ZqnZ8zgnvl4LyWBpWV4+QXK7binzE7hcuW xErexowEVJ0= =ujfx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --VbJkn9YxBvnuCH5J-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from smtp2.free.fr (root@smtp2.free.fr [212.27.32.6]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id IAA19412 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 08:24:04 +1000 Received: from victis.oeil.qc.ca (toulouse-59-52.dial.proxad.net [212.27.59.52]) by smtp2.free.fr (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA11423; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 00:23:58 +0200 Received: from guylhem by victis.oeil.qc.ca with local (Exim 3.02 #3) id 11VtQs-0000Gy-00; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:20:22 +0200 Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:20:21 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: Terry Dawson Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd) Message-ID: <19990928112021.B1019@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: <19990928102154.C13122@albert.animats.net> <19990928105714.I13122@albert.animats.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=KFztAG8eRSV9hGtP; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <19990928105714.I13122@albert.animats.net>; from Terry Dawson on Tue, Sep 28, 1999 at 10:57:14AM +1000 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 --KFztAG8eRSV9hGtP Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Sep 28, 1999 at 10:57:14AM +1000, Terry Dawson wrote: > It will be arbitrary because there is no formal voting mechanism in place > for the LDP to make it anything else. The terms would be arbitrarily > decided by whoever drafts the rules. So let's vote : Who agrees with Joshua idea (2 month/30 days/60 days, i.e. letting some copyright to the LDP to ensure future updates) ? Who disagrees and think all copyrights should be kept by each author ? There will not be any arbitrar decision. --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Save East Timor: http://altern.org/spoirier/timor.html http://www.pst-timor= .org --KFztAG8eRSV9hGtP Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN/CIVd+QeWug/qfFAQFcMwP/aQj3gjn47fUE6ilkNkdo5/HK5xMffw7G +NDnDHinkKPiiJZnoLpKudfqggtKPH96XJRFyYXzf3KwNzPqgJr7zCU8jC4KDVs1 xG9TXs56vbUqAmJ177DXWMFgkYW+BJeUqQvsy+ErDWGKY/EwEGNZLqiSTF3ZIlAM O0ZcRxeJPcg= =gJMJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --KFztAG8eRSV9hGtP-- From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0013 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from smtp2.free.fr (root@smtp2.free.fr [212.27.32.6]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id IAA19415 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 08:24:07 +1000 Received: from victis.oeil.qc.ca (toulouse-59-52.dial.proxad.net [212.27.59.52]) by smtp2.free.fr (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA11427; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 00:24:00 +0200 Received: from guylhem by victis.oeil.qc.ca with local (Exim 3.02 #3) id 11VtWN-0000H8-00; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:26:03 +0200 Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:26:03 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: Terry Dawson Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd) Message-ID: <19990928112603.C1019@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: <19990926182334.C1752@victis.oeil.qc.ca> <199909271752.NAA03210@chef.meridian.redhat.com> <19990927214735.C3665@victis.oeil.qc.ca> <19990928104532.F13122@albert.animats.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="iFRdW5/EC4oqxDHL"; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <19990928104532.F13122@albert.animats.net>; from Terry Dawson on Tue, Sep 28, 1999 at 10:45:32AM +1000 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 --iFRdW5/EC4oqxDHL Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Sep 28, 1999 at 10:45:32AM +1000, Terry Dawson wrote: > You already know how I stand on this matter. I think it is counterproduct= ive, > but I wouldn't oppose it so long as it could be decided, but the copyright > holder(s), on a document by document basis and not be a blanket arrangeme= nt. I'd like to add this if companies decided to offer documents (on which they own copyrights) to the LDP, but wanted printing exclusivity. This would be really counterproductive and "non free", while a short term exclusivity could make it better for anyone. > This is a little silly to state. Firstly, it's already covered by the > notion of a free document. Secondly it's only allowable if the license for > the document in question allows it (kinda the same point from another ang= le) But it is not clear enough. > What is lacking is a clear definition of what that minimum standard is, ie > precisely what the freedoms that a document license *must* allow are. That's why the manifesto needs updates. > forward. The License issue, which has been around for some time now (year= s) > has to be addressed. I think we need to fix this before starting anything else. Please submit your ideas to David Lawyer who is working on the manifesto. > Is there any good reason why we can't use the OpenSource Definition? Documentation is not software. --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Save East Timor: http://altern.org/spoirier/timor.html http://www.pst-timor= .org --iFRdW5/EC4oqxDHL Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN/CJq9+QeWug/qfFAQEVQAP/UfRrZYpJCyR+Q3bVn0VDrYtrX86VZ5fK yWUY4U131eTGkoPccP0tOnU0BKeyoDI4T61wl86hB9ANwZtjgEyZqX8tZLpbFv+l N9LmV6cP9DW6cqS1GAvumOETkdkfcz0FCjuLuzCiPt1CDf4NF78k0uNzoZ5tvsbr 5pR/0TLeLXo= =CfJ1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --iFRdW5/EC4oqxDHL-- From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from smtp2.free.fr (root@smtp2.free.fr [212.27.32.6]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id IAA19424 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 08:24:31 +1000 Received: from victis.oeil.qc.ca (toulouse-59-52.dial.proxad.net [212.27.59.52]) by smtp2.free.fr (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA11419; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 00:23:52 +0200 Received: from guylhem by victis.oeil.qc.ca with local (Exim 3.02 #3) id 11VtJi-0000Ge-00; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:12:58 +0200 Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:12:58 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: Terry Dawson Cc: Paul Jones , ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: QC volunteers? (Was: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd)) Message-ID: <19990928111258.A1019@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: <19990927010258.A4503@victis.oeil.qc.ca> <19990927213432.A3665@victis.oeil.qc.ca> <19990928102632.E13122@albert.animats.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=UlVJffcvxoiEqYs2; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <19990928102632.E13122@albert.animats.net>; from Terry Dawson on Tue, Sep 28, 1999 at 10:26:32AM +1000 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 --UlVJffcvxoiEqYs2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Sep 28, 1999 at 10:26:32AM +1000, Terry Dawson wrote: > Then you'd better start the process of making the LDP a legal entity so > it can legitimately own something. Paul, can you do this ? (remember Sybex requests) > If you were to add such a clause then you would immediately invalidate > large portions of your existing document base from being included in the > LDP. It will only make possible updates to any unmaintained documents. --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Save East Timor: http://altern.org/spoirier/timor.html http://www.pst-timor= .org --UlVJffcvxoiEqYs2 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN/CGmt+QeWug/qfFAQGpFQP7BCKrRFmirmVzkYuML0GWArD09vanIuJY wPvl599c2jtXxPFY538G/jy6YDxlQDDDthdvgyZbYk0oYhBVo2lzTiPB0QWXIk6d 9rBehrtX/SUnMU437TipMzaGRCx39nhnT+2Fm1DgsbM2ZCDOPJMzJm3a/hi8mmyJ 2afgeDdpvG4= =Oll9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --UlVJffcvxoiEqYs2-- From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id IAA19471 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 08:34:31 +1000 Received: (qmail 22794 invoked by uid 38); 28 Sep 1999 22:25:09 -0000 Resent-Date: 28 Sep 1999 22:25:09 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: guylhem@terram.oeil.qc.ca Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:20:21 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: Terry Dawson Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd) Message-ID: <19990928112021.B1019@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: <19990928102154.C13122@albert.animats.net> <19990928105714.I13122@albert.animats.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=KFztAG8eRSV9hGtP; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <19990928105714.I13122@albert.animats.net>; from Terry Dawson on Tue, Sep 28, 1999 at 10:57:14AM +1000 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <0kSn4C.A.ujF.EBU83@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/641 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org --KFztAG8eRSV9hGtP Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Sep 28, 1999 at 10:57:14AM +1000, Terry Dawson wrote: > It will be arbitrary because there is no formal voting mechanism in place > for the LDP to make it anything else. The terms would be arbitrarily > decided by whoever drafts the rules. So let's vote : Who agrees with Joshua idea (2 month/30 days/60 days, i.e. letting some copyright to the LDP to ensure future updates) ? Who disagrees and think all copyrights should be kept by each author ? There will not be any arbitrar decision. --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Save East Timor: http://altern.org/spoirier/timor.html http://www.pst-timor= .org --KFztAG8eRSV9hGtP Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN/CIVd+QeWug/qfFAQFcMwP/aQj3gjn47fUE6ilkNkdo5/HK5xMffw7G +NDnDHinkKPiiJZnoLpKudfqggtKPH96XJRFyYXzf3KwNzPqgJr7zCU8jC4KDVs1 xG9TXs56vbUqAmJ177DXWMFgkYW+BJeUqQvsy+ErDWGKY/EwEGNZLqiSTF3ZIlAM O0ZcRxeJPcg= =gJMJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --KFztAG8eRSV9hGtP-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0013 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id IAA19478 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 08:34:47 +1000 Received: (qmail 22901 invoked by uid 38); 28 Sep 1999 22:25:14 -0000 Resent-Date: 28 Sep 1999 22:25:14 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: guylhem@terram.oeil.qc.ca Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:26:03 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: Terry Dawson Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd) Message-ID: <19990928112603.C1019@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: <19990926182334.C1752@victis.oeil.qc.ca> <199909271752.NAA03210@chef.meridian.redhat.com> <19990927214735.C3665@victis.oeil.qc.ca> <19990928104532.F13122@albert.animats.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="iFRdW5/EC4oqxDHL"; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <19990928104532.F13122@albert.animats.net>; from Terry Dawson on Tue, Sep 28, 1999 at 10:45:32AM +1000 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/642 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org --iFRdW5/EC4oqxDHL Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Sep 28, 1999 at 10:45:32AM +1000, Terry Dawson wrote: > You already know how I stand on this matter. I think it is counterproduct= ive, > but I wouldn't oppose it so long as it could be decided, but the copyright > holder(s), on a document by document basis and not be a blanket arrangeme= nt. I'd like to add this if companies decided to offer documents (on which they own copyrights) to the LDP, but wanted printing exclusivity. This would be really counterproductive and "non free", while a short term exclusivity could make it better for anyone. > This is a little silly to state. Firstly, it's already covered by the > notion of a free document. Secondly it's only allowable if the license for > the document in question allows it (kinda the same point from another ang= le) But it is not clear enough. > What is lacking is a clear definition of what that minimum standard is, ie > precisely what the freedoms that a document license *must* allow are. That's why the manifesto needs updates. > forward. The License issue, which has been around for some time now (year= s) > has to be addressed. I think we need to fix this before starting anything else. Please submit your ideas to David Lawyer who is working on the manifesto. > Is there any good reason why we can't use the OpenSource Definition? Documentation is not software. --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Save East Timor: http://altern.org/spoirier/timor.html http://www.pst-timor= .org --iFRdW5/EC4oqxDHL Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN/CJq9+QeWug/qfFAQEVQAP/UfRrZYpJCyR+Q3bVn0VDrYtrX86VZ5fK yWUY4U131eTGkoPccP0tOnU0BKeyoDI4T61wl86hB9ANwZtjgEyZqX8tZLpbFv+l N9LmV6cP9DW6cqS1GAvumOETkdkfcz0FCjuLuzCiPt1CDf4NF78k0uNzoZ5tvsbr 5pR/0TLeLXo= =CfJ1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --iFRdW5/EC4oqxDHL-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0013 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id IAA19486 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 08:35:10 +1000 Received: (qmail 24023 invoked by uid 38); 28 Sep 1999 22:26:01 -0000 Resent-Date: 28 Sep 1999 22:26:01 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: guylhem@terram.oeil.qc.ca Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:12:58 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: Terry Dawson Cc: Paul Jones , ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: QC volunteers? (Was: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd)) Message-ID: <19990928111258.A1019@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: <19990927010258.A4503@victis.oeil.qc.ca> <19990927213432.A3665@victis.oeil.qc.ca> <19990928102632.E13122@albert.animats.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=UlVJffcvxoiEqYs2; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <19990928102632.E13122@albert.animats.net>; from Terry Dawson on Tue, Sep 28, 1999 at 10:26:32AM +1000 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/643 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org --UlVJffcvxoiEqYs2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Sep 28, 1999 at 10:26:32AM +1000, Terry Dawson wrote: > Then you'd better start the process of making the LDP a legal entity so > it can legitimately own something. Paul, can you do this ? (remember Sybex requests) > If you were to add such a clause then you would immediately invalidate > large portions of your existing document base from being included in the > LDP. It will only make possible updates to any unmaintained documents. --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Save East Timor: http://altern.org/spoirier/timor.html http://www.pst-timor= .org --UlVJffcvxoiEqYs2 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN/CGmt+QeWug/qfFAQGpFQP7BCKrRFmirmVzkYuML0GWArD09vanIuJY wPvl599c2jtXxPFY538G/jy6YDxlQDDDthdvgyZbYk0oYhBVo2lzTiPB0QWXIk6d 9rBehrtX/SUnMU437TipMzaGRCx39nhnT+2Fm1DgsbM2ZCDOPJMzJm3a/hi8mmyJ 2afgeDdpvG4= =Oll9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --UlVJffcvxoiEqYs2-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0013 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from lafn.org (lafn.ORG [206.117.18.1]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id CAA24996 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 02:26:29 +1000 Received: by lafn.org id AA09320 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for terry@albert.animats.net); Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:26:12 -0700 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:26:12 -0700 Message-Id: <199909291626.AA09320@lafn.org> From: bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer) To: terry@albert.animats.net Subject: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd) Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxcdoc.org Reply-To: bf347@lafn.org Terry Dawson wrote: >Is there any good reason why we can't use the OpenSource Definition? Yes. First, it's for software, not docs. But mainly it does not require that licenses be free. It doesn't even have a requirement that a license must permit one to make copies. If you cant copy it, you can't even put in on a website. David Lawyer From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from lafn.org (lafn.ORG [206.117.18.1]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id SAA29919 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:27:11 +1000 Received: by lafn.org id AA18952 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for terry@albert.animats.net); Thu, 30 Sep 1999 01:26:50 -0700 Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 01:26:50 -0700 Message-Id: <199909300826.AA18952@lafn.org> From: bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer) To: terry@albert.animats.net Subject: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd) Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxcdoc.org Reply-To: bf347@lafn.org Terry Dawson wrote: >Is there any good reason why we can't use the OpenSource Definition? > Yes. First, it's for software, not docs. But mainly it does not require that licenses be free. It doesn't even have a requirement that a license must permit one to make copies. If you cant copy it, you can't even put in on a website. David Lawyer From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from smtp1.free.fr (root@smtp1.free.fr [212.27.32.5]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id VAA30938 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:46:48 +1000 Received: from victis.oeil.qc.ca (toulouse-51-204.dial.proxad.net [212.27.51.204]) by smtp1.free.fr (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id NAA07384; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:46:37 +0200 Received: from guylhem by victis.oeil.qc.ca with local (Exim 3.02 #3) id 11WFjD-0000FU-00; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:08:47 +0200 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:08:47 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: terry@albert.animats.net Cc: guylhem@oeil.qc.ca, ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd) Message-ID: <19990929110847.B926@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: <19990928112021.B1019@victis.oeil.qc.ca> <199909290104.LAA20321@albert.animats.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="2B/JsCI69OhZNC5r"; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <199909290104.LAA20321@albert.animats.net>; from terry@albert.animats.net on Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 11:04:54AM +1000 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 --2B/JsCI69OhZNC5r Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 11:04:54AM +1000, terry@albert.animats.net wrote: [license/ownership] We'd just explicitly add this to the license (see David's post on modified version) > > There will not be any arbitrar decision. >=20 > It will be arbitrary. What are the terms of the vote? How will it work? The majority decides. > What happens to the will of the majority of authors who either aren't > subscribed to this list, don't have time to follow the discussion, or It happens in any vote. > are too busy to answer before someone decides the (unstated) voting > period has ended? This vote will last 2 weeks. Is it long enough ? --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project: http://www.linuxdoc.org PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem ; Email: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca To submit new HOWTOs to the LDP, mail ldp-submit@lists.linuxdoc.org --2B/JsCI69OhZNC5r Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN/HXH9+QeWug/qfFAQEXTQP+ONpcWUwj2Y547KDW27jNNdEuf5cW4JKC oGaPmqxo/tpepyrDAp/ANOJutYE1LimmUi2YFlbqL3J56sJX9TMBLgIsIT2iGdUI GvWaOyVtYQvarHA5TmrzsydDNz558Csd+VvtvcSSJncHOpJ9UP7OYjHFNH/hiWHz Ea6tfIc1lxI= =UEyW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --2B/JsCI69OhZNC5r-- From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id VAA30966 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:47:16 +1000 Received: (qmail 10460 invoked by uid 38); 30 Sep 1999 11:46:58 -0000 Resent-Date: 30 Sep 1999 11:46:58 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: guylhem@terram.oeil.qc.ca Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:08:47 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: terry@albert.animats.net Cc: guylhem@oeil.qc.ca, ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd) Message-ID: <19990929110847.B926@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: <19990928112021.B1019@victis.oeil.qc.ca> <199909290104.LAA20321@albert.animats.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="2B/JsCI69OhZNC5r"; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <199909290104.LAA20321@albert.animats.net>; from terry@albert.animats.net on Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 11:04:54AM +1000 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/693 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org --2B/JsCI69OhZNC5r Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 11:04:54AM +1000, terry@albert.animats.net wrote: [license/ownership] We'd just explicitly add this to the license (see David's post on modified version) > > There will not be any arbitrar decision. >=20 > It will be arbitrary. What are the terms of the vote? How will it work? The majority decides. > What happens to the will of the majority of authors who either aren't > subscribed to this list, don't have time to follow the discussion, or It happens in any vote. > are too busy to answer before someone decides the (unstated) voting > period has ended? This vote will last 2 weeks. Is it long enough ? --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project: http://www.linuxdoc.org PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem ; Email: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca To submit new HOWTOs to the LDP, mail ldp-submit@lists.linuxdoc.org --2B/JsCI69OhZNC5r Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN/HXH9+QeWug/qfFAQEXTQP+ONpcWUwj2Y547KDW27jNNdEuf5cW4JKC oGaPmqxo/tpepyrDAp/ANOJutYE1LimmUi2YFlbqL3J56sJX9TMBLgIsIT2iGdUI GvWaOyVtYQvarHA5TmrzsydDNz558Csd+VvtvcSSJncHOpJ9UP7OYjHFNH/hiWHz Ea6tfIc1lxI= =UEyW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --2B/JsCI69OhZNC5r-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 21:12:47 +0000 (/etc/localtime) From: terry@albert Subject: Re: LDP CVS server? To: liw@iki.fi cc: djb@redhat.com, jim@jimpick.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII On 4 May, Lars Wirzenius wrote: > It should allow all LDP authors to commit, and should allow anonymous > read-only access. > > I have no experience running a CVS server for this, so I don't know if > login accounts are needed for those who need to commit stuff. Hopefully > not. Ok, I know next to nothing about cvS myself, so I'll find someone with some experience with it and ask them to assist. Donnie, how keen are you on running it? Terry -- terry@albert.aapra.org.au, terry@linux.org.au From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0013 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id WAA09998 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 22:20:32 +1000 Received: (qmail 5201 invoked by uid 38); 1 Sep 1999 12:18:17 -0000 Resent-Date: 1 Sep 1999 12:18:17 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: deb@thepuffingroup.com Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 07:11:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Deb Richardson X-Sender: deb@erebus To: Richard Ames cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org, ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Subject: RE: mailing list archives In-Reply-To: <000101bef429$1837d020$0200a8c0@perch> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/297 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > And it would be good to know where the LDP is headed. These lists are very > quite for such an important topic. Matt Welsh posted a note on the LDP website on Saturday. Since then, as far as I know, there has been little activity or discussion regarding the direction of the LDP. For those of you who haven't seen it, Matt's note is here: http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/changes.html I believe that someone is working on setting up proper virtual hosting for the linuxdoc.org domain. Paul, as you know, has already offered to set up mailing list archives. I believe that there is also some activity regarding getting a CVS of some sort set up on MetaLab, but I'm not sure what the current status of that is. A new HOWTO HOWTO is also in the process of being written, and I believe that was mentioned here. I've been discussing some stuff with Nik over at the FreeBSD Documentation Project regarding the creation of non-project-specific documentation that may be hosted at the OSWG (ie: a Style Guide; guides to vi, emacs, majordomo, etc.). This isn't directly related to the LDP, except for the fact that the LDP would also be able to benefit from these docs (when they exist). There has also be a fair bit of discussion regarding the LDP on the OSWG mailing list. If you would like to read that discussion, you can find the list archives here: http://linuxchix.devin.com/techwriters/ - deb -- == Open Source Writers Group (OSWG) == http://www.thepuffingroup.com/oswg == deb@thepuffingroup.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0013 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id XAA23774 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 23:23:55 +1000 Received: (qmail 5031 invoked by uid 38); 3 Sep 1999 13:23:36 -0000 Resent-Date: 3 Sep 1999 13:23:35 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: olea@tsai.es Message-ID: <37CFCC9A.8DFA7DCC@tsai.es> Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 15:26:50 +0200 From: Ismael Olea X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [es] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: es-ES,es,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: richard@linsup.com CC: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Bitkeeper References: <000101bef5b0$00c65640$0200a8c0@perch> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Infomail-Id: 936365349.0B44010A811066.5349 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/308 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by albert.animats.net id XAA23774 Richard Ames escribió: > See http://www.bitkeeper.com/bk01.html, etc. for detail. It said it's a closed beta and it's not ready for download... :-? How about PRCS? The Bitkeeper people seems to say it's a good tool. -- Ismael Olea TSAI, Área Sistemas, Unix tlf. 91-7548748 olea@tsai.es olea@iname.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0013 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id AAA10325 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 00:38:04 +1000 Received: (qmail 12187 invoked by uid 38); 27 Sep 1999 14:36:17 -0000 Resent-Date: 27 Sep 1999 14:36:17 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: poet@linuxports.com Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 07:45:10 -0700 (PDT) From: "Mr. Poet" X-Sender: jd@crazypenguins.commandprompt.com To: Richard Ames cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org, "Mr. Poet" Subject: Re: LDP web site, etc. In-Reply-To: <000e01bf08bf$e7c84220$0200a8c0@perch> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/605 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Hello, Thank you for your comments, we have talked at length about banner ads and it has been pretty much decided that they are not required. We have considered to doing something like link exchange so that more people that normally wouldn't know about the LDP would. I have also considered running banners for other OSS sites the way that linux.com does but that will have to wait until more things come around the corner. I will look into the samba site and see what they have. Again, thanks for the comments. Poet LinuxPorts - http://www.linuxports.com LDP - http://www.linuxdoc.org On Mon, 27 Sep 1999, Richard Ames wrote: > > I'd like to thank those who are working to reinvigorate the LDP.... > > Web site: > > It needs to be more compact. > > I agree the core team should be mentioned, but possibly the names are one > click away. The Samba pages are a good example http://www.samba.org/ > > The innovation today with the bar down the left is good but also needs to be > more concise... > > I understand the banner ad is supplying the prize for the new Logo, but hope > we don't need ads long term... > > Thanks, > > Richard. > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id HAA01190 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 07:03:36 +1000 Received: (qmail 6944 invoked by uid 38); 30 Sep 1999 21:02:53 -0000 Resent-Date: 30 Sep 1999 21:02:53 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: guylhem@terram.oeil.qc.ca Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:51:06 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: Jim Pick Cc: "Mr. Poet" , LDP discuss Subject: Re: Updating Internic info for linuxdoc.org Message-ID: <19990930135106.C879@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: <87yae06em5.fsf@pepper.jimpick.com> <871zbhpexg.fsf@pepper.jimpick.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=uZ3hkaAS1mZxFaxD; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <871zbhpexg.fsf@pepper.jimpick.com>; from Jim Pick on Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 02:48:27PM -0700 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/702 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org --uZ3hkaAS1mZxFaxD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Could you send me your contact info so I could finish this task off? Joshua Drake, one of our webmasters, volunteered on ldp-discuss for linuxdo= c.org. Josh could you please fill in the form? --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project: http://www.linuxdoc.org PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem ; Email: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca To submit new HOWTOs to the LDP, mail ldp-submit@lists.linuxdoc.org --uZ3hkaAS1mZxFaxD Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN/NOqt+QeWug/qfFAQGX7wQApA81cYFe0iwL9rCrerpHCf0XM9zS+xSZ R3t0rX0xyvuq+e7VPyzX+zCyvUAxVfLANeHVjeawNlMMn3QzLpZXR4ITWnZeiIAv upO8yBJFi0cUR6b+azH0yvv6fI0s/qiwgpbLAPr62d+/hYgJCaLoxJIIpznwW36k 9InayNzKKSg= =/Tx+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --uZ3hkaAS1mZxFaxD-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id VAA30947 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:46:54 +1000 Received: (qmail 10099 invoked by uid 38); 30 Sep 1999 11:46:44 -0000 Resent-Date: 30 Sep 1999 11:46:44 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: guylhem@terram.oeil.qc.ca Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 01:06:41 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: Tim Bynum , "Mr. Poet" Cc: Vladimir Vuksan , ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: Reasons for wanting to remove my documents Message-ID: <19990929010641.B1113@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="/NkBOFFp2J2Af1nK"; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: ; from Mr. Poet on Tue, Sep 28, 1999 at 11:03:39AM -0700 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <4i-wtD.A.hdC.k2083@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/690 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org --/NkBOFFp2J2Af1nK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Sep 28, 1999 at 11:03:39AM -0700, Mr. Poet wrote: > In Progess: > Private Discussion: We do discuss many topics, but we only make it public when we agree, if it's usable or if we need a hand. Else ppl will say we only have idea and never realize them. - FTP could allow current (trusted) authors to bypass the QC to have a 1 day delay before integration in the main site. But I must have Tim opinion first, he's in charge of the HOWTO and maybe he'd like to check them individually. Anyway, he has his word to say here. - CVS will also be a possibility, but it is complicated, we can't impose authors sgml, a manifesto *AND* CVS... before writing HOWTOs. Therefore online submission and ldp-submit will be kept as easy alternatives. --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Save East Timor: http://altern.org/spoirier/timor.html http://www.pst-timor= .org --/NkBOFFp2J2Af1nK Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN/FKAd+QeWug/qfFAQH5pgP+L6ZKZa4MBlKt5hPLB4pcwVIdr7D4qWak kPZW2CkwRFRlBQe9eQKHrXHdWP7Q7ElqRvJpPEZZdCAjRgJDSPp6ERQLEdvfjL2b HwGQwJi7DMud1fQi6TAwXhBggb8WRgq4hPXPl3OaInf2lsXsXGLn0qm7RI5aM3Ig kkoM+F6/l6A= =eXcl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --/NkBOFFp2J2Af1nK-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id TAA29474 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 19:40:29 +1000 Received: (qmail 25462 invoked by uid 38); 4 Sep 1999 09:40:16 -0000 Resent-Date: 4 Sep 1999 09:40:16 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: cognition@bigfoot.com Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 09:51:47 +0000 (GMT) From: cogNiTioN Sender: cognition@bigfoot.com Reply-To: cognition@bigfoot.com To: Tim cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: kinda off topic In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-COPYRIGHT: (C) Copyright 1999 cogNiTioN where applicable. No part of X-COPYRIGHT2: this message may be reproduced without prior permission. X-DISCLAIMER: All opinions expressed are mine. My service providers X-DISCLAIMER2: cannot be held responsible for the content of this message X-NOSPAM: Any unsolicited commercial email (spam) is subject to an archival X-NOSPAM2: fee of 1 UKP per byte per day until the fee is paid. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/324 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org On Fri, 3 Sep 1999, Tim wrote: > Hello All, > > I'm not enjoying the new list much b/c I can't get procmail to easily dump > all the ldp email to its own folder. > > Is anyone using procmail and not having a problem? If so, I'd love the > recipe. I'm new to this list, infact this is the first posting I recieved, so I have not yet had the chance to set up procmail to deliver it to it's own folder yet. But cheacking other posts it seems what I normally do with lists may work with this one as well. I use the "Return-Path:" header I have at the top of my header. For this list it appears to be: Return-Path: thus, I think a recipe that should work would be: # For ALL ldp lists into the directory IN.ldp-lists # Assuming tht you're not on any other lists coming from list.debain.org :0: * ^Return-Path:.*lists.debain.org IN.ldp-lists I'll probably set procmail up to deliver each ldp list to its own dir, like such: :0: * ^Return-Path:.*ldp-discuss IN.ldp-discuss # Assuming ldp-announce uses the same format :0: * ^Return-Path:.*ldp-announce IN.ldp-announce > Any help or assistance is appreciated. Sorry for the off-topic posting. This is the format I use for most the lists I'm on, and I find it agreable. But I'm a newbie, so and other ways to do it would also be appreciated. BTW: I'll apologise in advance if I've missed any etiquette associated with this list, as I've not observde my normal lurk period and most the lists I'm are quite relaxed. BTW: is there a difference between the ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org and the ldp-discuss@lists.debain.org? > Best Regards, > Tim Hope it helps. David -- ,------------------------------, ,====================| S H U N A N T I O N L I N E |===================, | David M. Webster '------------------------------' (aka cogNiTioN) | |=======================================================================| | cognition@bigfoot.com |=============| cognite.net will be online RSN. | '====== I use Linux everyday to up my productivity - so up yours! ======' -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id UAA29672 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 20:25:39 +1000 Received: (qmail 31550 invoked by uid 38); 4 Sep 1999 10:24:07 -0000 Resent-Date: 4 Sep 1999 10:24:07 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: Hugo.van.der.Kooij@caiw.nl Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 12:23:50 +0200 (CEST) From: Hugo van der Kooij X-Sender: hvdkooij@bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org To: Tim cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: kinda off topic In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-URL: http://www.caiw.nl/~hvdkooij/ X-Loop: Hugo.van.der.Kooij@caiw.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/325 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org On Fri, 3 Sep 1999, Tim wrote: > I'm not enjoying the new list much b/c I can't get procmail to easily dump > all the ldp email to its own folder. How about using: --------B<--------B<-------- # # .procmailrc # PATH=/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/local/bin SHELL=/bin/sh LOCKTIMEOUT=60 MAILDIR=$HOME/mail LOGFILE=$HOME/.procmail.log :0 * ^Resent-From: ldp-(spec|discuss)@lists.(debian.org|linuxdoc.org) IN.LDP # ----- Multiples kill ----- :0 Wh: msgid.lock | formail -D 10000 $HOME/.procmail.msgid --------B<--------B<-------- Works fine here for quite same time. And Resent-From: seems the most reliable header one can choose for this list. Hugo. -- Hugo van der Kooij; Oranje Nassaustraat 16; 3155 VJ Maasland hvdkooij@caiw.nl http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~hvdkooij/ -------------------------------------------------------------- Use of any of my email addresses for unsollicited (commercial) email is a clear intrusion of my privacy and illegal! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id EAA19351 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 04:02:20 +1000 Received: (qmail 5511 invoked by uid 38); 5 Sep 1999 18:01:18 -0000 Resent-Date: 5 Sep 1999 18:01:18 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: mdw@bhikku.CS.Berkeley.EDU Message-Id: <199909051804.LAA27852@bhikku.CS.Berkeley.EDU> To: Tim cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org From: Matt Welsh Reply-To: Matt Welsh Subject: Re: Howto submission bounces In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 05 Sep 1999 10:14:03 CDT." Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 11:04:09 -0700 Sender: mdw@cs.berkeley.edu Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/339 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Tim writes: > > > I sent howto updates to: submit-howto@lists.linuxdoc.org and it bounced. > > So I'm now trying the old address: linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu > I conacted the list maintainer(s) a week ago and there has been no > creation of the submit-howto list and evidently no knowledge of it. I was under the impression that the correct address was ldp-submit@lists.linuxdoc.org. Could we have that alias created? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id CAA21153 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 02:41:34 +1000 Received: (qmail 5202 invoked by uid 38); 13 Sep 1999 16:41:24 -0000 Resent-Date: 13 Sep 1999 16:41:24 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: gferg@hoop.timonium.sgi.com From: "Greg Ferguson" Message-Id: <9909131248.ZM19831@hoop.timonium.sgi.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:48:06 -0400 In-Reply-To: Tim "Re: Kernel Hackers Guide" (Sep 10, 8:19pm) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: Tim , ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: Kernel Hackers Guide Cc: poet@linuxports.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/430 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org On Sep 10, 8:19pm, Tim wrote: > Subject: Re: Kernel Hackers Guide > Poet, > > check out: > > ftp://wallybox.cei.net/pub/Linux/khg.tar.gz > > This was something I picked up some time ago awaiting the final release. > I think this may have even been "published", or at least was its initial > intent. The version Tim points to is now available at: http://www.linuxdoc.org/LDP/khg/HyperNews/get/khg.html For reference purposes, I kept in the threaded discussion entries and the ability to view and navigate through them. However, the HyperNews functionality to edit or reply has been removed. This is essentially a static/archived snapshot of the KHG. A link to this Guide (and its accompanying gzip'ed download file) has been added back into: http://www.linuxdoc.org/docs.html ---- Ferg -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id AAA22084 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 00:46:14 +1000 Received: (qmail 26982 invoked by uid 38); 18 Sep 1999 14:46:07 -0000 Resent-Date: 18 Sep 1999 14:46:07 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: poet@linuxports.com Message-Id: <199909181454.HAA06528@crazypenguins.commandprompt.com> From: "{poet}" Organization: CommandPrompt Software To: Tim Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 07:39:28 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: LDP bug-tracker Reply-to: poet@linuxports.com CC: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Priority: normal References: <199909170736.AA18938@lafn.org> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Resent-Message-ID: <6xVe7B.A.blG.vW643@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/483 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Hello, The problem with NOT contacting the author directly is that changing the document without the authors permission is often copyright infringement. Although most documents allow modification it is not modification of the existing document. This means that we would end up with the MODEM- HOWTO and the MODEM-HOWTO.Bugfix1999. This would be a nightmare. Date forwarded: 18 Sep 1999 12:15:39 -0000 Date sent: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 07:04:25 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: LDP bug-tracker Forwarded by: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org > > What may be needed is someone that a reader can contact if he get's no > > response from the author/maintainer within a resonable amount of time. > > Thus I don't think we should be looking into any bug-tracking system. > > There are much more important things to do. > I had made the suggestion that we have an email address (or list) > available for reporting bugs, but it didn't fly over very well. I believe > one of the comments was that it should be handled directly, meaning on the > author should be contacted. > > But you bring up the point that I was trying to make......if that > author(s) does not respond, or better yet, the corrections are not made, > then nothing is accomplished and the time wasted is by that of the reader > trying to contact the author which is what we're all looking > for.....feedback. > > > Best Regards, > Tim > > -- > Linux HOWTO coordinator http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/HOWTO > tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) > tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) > tbynum@rineco.com (Work) > http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) > > D I P C > The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the > easy way! > http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org LinuxPorts - http://www.linuxports.com LDP - http://www.linuxdoc.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id AAA22098 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 00:48:15 +1000 Received: (qmail 28116 invoked by uid 38); 18 Sep 1999 14:48:06 -0000 Resent-Date: 18 Sep 1999 14:48:06 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: poet@linuxports.com Message-Id: <199909181456.HAA06540@crazypenguins.commandprompt.com> From: "{poet}" Organization: CommandPrompt Software To: Tim Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 07:41:26 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: linuxdoc.org: copyright and Manifesto Reply-to: poet@linuxports.com CC: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Priority: normal References: <19990916172117.B6135@albert.animats.net> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/484 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Personally I still think it is stupid that we allow LICENSING of documentation. The GPL is not a documentation license. People have stated that it will work for documentation, this may be true but it is still a little backwards.. Poet Date forwarded: 18 Sep 1999 12:01:03 -0000 Date sent: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 06:49:44 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: linuxdoc.org: copyright and Manifesto Forwarded by: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org > > > Just because someone takes over maintainership of a document I've worked on > > is no reason for my name to be removed from the copyright. That would breach > > the GPL where it specifically states that all copyright notices are to > > be retained. > There is no doubt....this would definately be a breach of the GPL. New > Maintainers should at no point ever remove the original author. The only > way I could ever see this happening is if the doc in question was ever > given an overhaul or completely re-written. I'm still not sure it warrant > removal of the original author, but I suppose if they had the consent of > the the author in question, then this would be legit. > > > Best Regards, > Tim > > -- > Linux HOWTO coordinator http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/HOWTO > tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) > tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) > tbynum@rineco.com (Work) > http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) > > D I P C > The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the > easy way! > http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org LinuxPorts - http://www.linuxports.com LDP - http://www.linuxdoc.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id NAA05423 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:42:38 +1000 Received: (qmail 20083 invoked by uid 38); 19 Sep 1999 03:42:29 -0000 Resent-Date: 19 Sep 1999 03:42:29 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: yan@mail.storm.ca Message-Id: <199909190342.XAA14152@mail.storm.ca> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Yves Bellefeuille" To: Tim Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 23:40:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Are we good enough ? Reply-to: yan@storm.ca CC: LDP discuss Priority: normal References: <199909180445.AAA15809@mail.storm.ca> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/495 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Tim wrote: > This is rather a harsh tone, but I'm sure it's not your intent. It's the tone of someone who wrote to Tim, Greg and Guylhem and tried to update his Mini How-To without success at least three times. > The update was sent to me in text format, and not of the required > format which is either sgml (preferred) or html. I sent the upgrade in both text and HTML format. I'm sending it again -- for the fourth time. > I sent an email stating this, but perhaps you never received it? Correct, I never received your message. Still, I wrote to you at least three times about this; did all three replies get lost? -- Yves Bellefeuille , Ottawa, Canada Francais / English / Esperanto Maintainer, Esperanto FAQ: http://www.esperanto.net/veb/faq.html PGP key at the servers and at http://www.storm.ca/~yan/pgp.asc -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id DAA09183 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 03:57:07 +1000 Received: (qmail 5711 invoked by uid 38); 19 Sep 1999 17:49:35 -0000 Resent-Date: 19 Sep 1999 17:49:34 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: poet@linuxports.com Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 10:53:30 -0700 (PDT) From: "Mr. Poet" X-Sender: jd@crazypenguins.commandprompt.com To: Tim cc: Yves Bellefeuille , LDP discuss , ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org, recipient list not shown: ; Subject: Re: Are we good enough ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/502 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org I wonder if this emailer is stripping the html LinuxPorts - http://www.linuxports.com LDP - http://www.linuxdoc.org On Sun, 19 Sep 1999, Tim wrote: > > > I sent the upgrade in both text and HTML format. I'm sending it again -- > > for the fourth time. > Again....I only received the doc in text format. > > I've apologized for any delays.....that's all I can do. > > > Best Regards, > Tim > > -- > Linux HOWTO coordinator http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/HOWTO > tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) > tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) > tbynum@rineco.com (Work) > http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) > > D I P C > The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the > easy way! > http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id PAA12753 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:50:11 +1000 Received: (qmail 1056 invoked by uid 38); 20 Sep 1999 05:49:58 -0000 Resent-Date: 20 Sep 1999 05:49:58 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: yan@mail.storm.ca Message-Id: <199909200549.BAA25868@mail.storm.ca> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Yves Bellefeuille" To: Tim Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 01:47:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Hard Disk Upgrade Mini How-To Reply-to: yan@storm.ca CC: LDP discuss , Konrad Hinsen Priority: normal References: <199909190346.XAA14317@mail.storm.ca> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/511 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Tim wrote: > I would never convert a doc *back* to text, as it is no longer an > acceptable format. > > I'll get what you have sent to me processed and uploaded today. > Perhaps then your tone will change and we can move on. The new version of the Mini How-To has now been posted. Thanks. I sent versions in both text and HTML formats. I specifically asked that the text version I sent be posted rather than converting the HTML version back to text. Unfortunately, it seems that the text version that was posted is not the version I sent, but rather that the HTML version was converted back to text. This is what I asked not be done, and what Tim said would never be done. I don't know why it happened; perhaps it was done automatically. I'm once again sending the text version, in a separate message. Can this version be posted? Thanks. (For those who are curious: The text version I prepared is at: http://www.storm.ca/~yan/Hard-Disk-Upgrade The text version that was posted is at: http://metalab.unc.edu/pub/Linux/docs/HOWTO/mini/Hard-Disk-Upgrade The posted version seems to be re-converted from HTML to text using Lynx.) Regards, -- Yves Bellefeuille , Ottawa, Canada Francais / English / Esperanto Maintainer, Esperanto FAQ: http://www.esperanto.net/veb/faq.html PGP key at the servers and at http://www.storm.ca/~yan/pgp.asc -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id GAA16817 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 06:39:31 +1000 Received: (qmail 24346 invoked by uid 38); 20 Sep 1999 20:39:20 -0000 Resent-Date: 20 Sep 1999 20:39:20 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: yan@mail.storm.ca Message-Id: <199909202038.QAA11721@mail.storm.ca> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Yves Bellefeuille" To: Tim Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:36:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Hard Disk Upgrade Mini How-To Reply-to: yan@storm.ca CC: LDP discuss Priority: normal References: <199909200549.BAA25868@mail.storm.ca> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/515 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > All html docs are converted back to txt via a Makefile that produces > all output. So, can I ask you to post the original text version rather than converting the HTML version back to text? The "original" version I maintain is in text. I then convert it to HTML when I send it to the LDP, since you require an HTML version. There's no point in converting the HTML back to text, at least in this case. By the way, I write all my HTML pages "by hand", inserting the codes manually. I think this gives much better results (and less bloat) than using a program to convert to HTML. -- Yves Bellefeuille , Ottawa, Canada Francais / English / Esperanto Maintainer, Esperanto FAQ: http://www.esperanto.net/veb/faq.html PGP key at the servers and at http://www.storm.ca/~yan/pgp.asc -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id JAA17655 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:22:26 +1000 Received: (qmail 11427 invoked by uid 38); 20 Sep 1999 23:22:21 -0000 Resent-Date: 20 Sep 1999 23:22:21 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: dranch@trinnet.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990920142841.008a3660@mail.trinnet.net> X-Sender: dranch@mail.trinnet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:28:41 -0700 To: Tim , ldp-announce@lists.linuxdoc.org From: "David A. Ranch" Subject: Re: Document Updates Cc: ambrose@writeme.com In-Reply-To: <199909181622.LAA17971@wallybox.cei.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-announce@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4 X-Loop: ldp-announce@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-announce-request@lists.debian.org >This message has been 'automagically' posted. Hey Tim, Sigh.. I'm still trying to get the newest IP MASQ-mini HOWTO: 1. Updated to the LDP. The primary site is currently http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~dranch/LINUX/ipmasq 2. Have the status changed from a Mini-HOWTO to a full HOWTO. Could you give me any eta since the current LDP IP Masq howto is very wrong. --David .----------------------------------------------------------------------------. | David A. Ranch - Linux/Networking/PC hardware dranch@trinnet.net | !---- ----! `----- For more detailed info, see http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~dranch -----' -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-announce-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id PAA21701 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 15:29:16 +1000 Received: (qmail 15497 invoked by uid 38); 29 Sep 1999 05:28:29 -0000 Resent-Date: 29 Sep 1999 05:28:28 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: poet@linuxports.com Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 22:38:13 -0700 (PDT) From: "Mr. Poet" X-Sender: jd@crazypenguins.commandprompt.com To: Tim cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org, ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org, recipient list not shown: ; Subject: Re: Final Farewell?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/655 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Imagine that, a member on this list finally speaking his mind to the truth. LinuxPorts - http://www.linuxports.com LDP - http://www.linuxdoc.org On Tue, 28 Sep 1999, Tim wrote: > Hello to all, > > Let me just preface this by saying that these are my views and comments > and mine alone, not those of the LDP. I'm not asking for pity, nor a > shoulder to cry on. > > > > > > I've sat back and watched once again as my name and the job I do get > dragged through the mud. This time I can't and will not sit back and > watch this happen *again* and turn my back. > > As for the complaints and removing of documents , all I can say is this, > I'm sorry for the problems that occured and I'm sorry that he felt that he > needed to be 1) rude and 2) disrespectful not only to me, but all others > subscribed to the list. This is my personal opinion and not necessarily > those of others, so don't go blaming the LDP for the comments that I am > making. These are *not* the views of the LDP, these are my own personal > views and comments. Please don't confuse the two. > > Many times I have asked how I was doing, I've asked for suggestions and > assistance. Rarely if ever do I receive a comment one, but let one person > have a complaint (in a very imperfect world I might add) and the walls > just come crumbling down. > > Like it or not, the LDP has progressed and I have assisted in this > process. No one has once asked how the processing of HOWTOs actually > works or even cared enough to do so. Some discussions did take place, and > I did try to explain, but I honestly don't think anyone was listening (I > feel this a lot). > > I've asked for feedback from authors/maintainers and even made suggestions > that they get more involved. This was over a year ago (probably close to > 2) and no one had time or no one cared to respond at any length. I asked > if the authors/maintainers would like to assist in approving documents > submittals and I got 0% response.....that's right nothing. > > I've created pages for updates and for current projects to allow others to > know what's going on and to hopefully get them involved. Did this > accomplish anything? Honestly I don't know b/c no one has ever bothered > to comment on them. > > It seems that the ldp-discuss list (and others) has become nothing short > of a means of pulic humiliation and I'm not just talking about myself. > This is *not* what the list is for. Public bickering back and forth has > no place on this list. Sure, it may help you to get your point across, > but if that's all you want, then surely you could find a better means. > > I've even publicly made available my pager via a paging server. Do you > think I did this for kicks? It was done to give anyone who wanted > *direct* access to me for whatever reason they had that ability. I'm not > asking anyone to use it, but I did state that it was there to be used if > you needed it. > > I understand that a lot of time is spent by authors/maintainers updating > docs. But do you think the rest of us have no other life outside the LDP? > We all (I assume) are responsible adults and I find it a crying shame that > more of us don't act like it when presented with a public forum. > > It's not my nature to be a downer or have a negative attitude and I feel > that I've held my head high for good reason in regards to being the HOWTO > Coordinator. I'm not perfect, nor is the job I do, but I do take pride in > it and that should account for something. ??? > > As for the missed/lost docs that have recently been brought to > ldp-discuss, again I have apologized...publicly. > > There have been many new additions and many updates to the HOWTOs (I use > this generally I include mini-HOWTOs and FAQs) and to accuse me of > deliberately ignoring someone or deliberately setting their update aside > or basically just having better things to do with my time is unacceptable, > untrue and a complete disrespect to me and what I do. > > In the past (whether there were complaints or not) I asked if others were > happy with what I was doing. I've even asked if anyone would like me to > step down and look for someone else to take my place as the HOWTO > Cooridnator. It was rather quiet, but the comments that were made > appreciated what I was doing and asked that I hang in there. Where are > those folks now when push comes to shove?!? > > When you believe in something strong enough you'll do what you can to > survive and keep it going. This is how I felt (feel more often than not) > about the HOWTO Coordinator position and the LDP. > > I must say this.....the way the move (if that's what you want to call it) > from Metalab (formerly Sunsite) was handled was inexcusable. This I'm > afraid *is* a direct reflection on the LDP. I do not blame Guylhem for > how things were handled nor should anyone else. People did nothing but > complain about the way things were going and Guylhem asked for feedback > and as with me got little response and the majority of the responses were > not solutions but rather threads that turned into many lines of > nothingness, meaning that nothing was ever being resolved so he took > matters into his own hands. Was this not the reason that he was *voted* > into position? It's his job to deal with the flack and I think he's done > so. People may not have agreed with it, but there was action and in the > long run that's what we asked for. > > As for the Copyright/Licensing debate that's been going on (for how long > now?) I'm afraid it has gotten old and extremely tired. I think it's > great that we come up with something that we can *all* live with, but the > area seems to have been completely blurred between Copyright and > Licensing. And to think that we can at this time mandate something of this > sort is beyond me. The LDP is *not* in the position to mandate a matter > like this, at least not right now. My personal opinion is that > an unofficial "offical" manifesto should be written up and put out for > public display and scrutiny, and let's move on. What is in place now is > sufficient and has been for all these years with minor tweaking along the > way. I've always told authors to use what's in place if *they* are > comfortable with it....not me. If they choose to tweak it to *their* > liking then that is *their* perrogative. Please for the sake of the LDP > let this matter be put aside. Perhaps someone outside the LDP would be > more suitable for this task? > > As for the CVS matter, I will say this. *I* (and don't believe that > anyone else did) did not turn down Metalab there offer of CVS? As > a matter of fact, the one person (me) responsible for getting the updates > to Metalab has not even discussed the matter of CVS with anyone at > Metalab. Another mis-communication, I would say, but it's problems like > these that we're trying to improve on. Yes, I have been working on a CVS > solution, does that mean that I would not choose to use Metalab if their > services were offered, not only no, but heck no. I would gladly accept! > I am working on the finer details of the CVS and how things will be > handled. Everyone assumes that all these processes are magically > implemented, ok maybe that's not assumed, but it's definately the > impression left by many comments. To just throw all the doucment source > out there and made available via CVS won't solve anything if measures are > not put into place to protect the docs and their processing/updating? If > it's only a CVS that's needed/wanted then sure, gimme an hour or two. > This is not our goal! Long term solutions is the bottom-line. > > I have been preparing a revised QC manifesto that will be published by the > end of the week. I hope this will solve and/or answer many questions. My > main objective here is to give all authors/maintainers a means of tracking > progress. This along with the quality of work *will* be our main > objectives. And some sort of bug tracking will also be implemented. > > I have talked to Guylhem (not at length) about making my final comments to > ldp-discuss on all the uproar the past few days, so here I am. > Unfortunately he misunderstood and thought I was wanting to step down. > This was not my intent, but the thought has consumed me over the past 24+ > hours and perhaps his misunderstanding is something I should actually > consider at this point. > > If the LDP is suffering because of me then the matter should be addressed > and handled appropriately (respectively goes w/out saying). I will > entertain the idea of stepping down if it is in fact in the best interest > of the LDP. Linux has given me far too much to let my pride get in the > way of progress. > > As for disgruntled authors removing their documents from the LDP, just > doesn't sit well with me. Sure, if that's what they want....then let them > move on. I honestly can't believe this is the route they would choose to > take, but if it is......well perhaps they should. I do know this, if > every disgruntled Linux coder had the same views, we would *not* be having > this dicussion b/c there would be no Linux. To up and go taking your docs > with you is just plain childish. That is *not* directed at Vladimir, but > more to any author who feels this way. If I have personal comments for > any author, I'll do the repectful thing and personally make them.....not > publicly. > > Perhaps this is my undoing, but I honestly felt that something had to be > said. I have too much respect for everyone involved to just let it pass > and allow the discomfort that is present now to continue. I owe it to you > as well as myself to rectify any and all problems/complaints that are > directly related to me. > > Best Regards, > Tim > > -- > Linux HOWTO coordinator http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/HOWTO > tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) > tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) > tbynum@rineco.com (Work) > http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) > > D I P C > The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the > easy way! > http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 08:57:09 +1000 (EST) From: terry@albert Subject: Re: Should we split mini HOWTOs? To: guylhem@oeil.qc.ca cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org In-Reply-To: <19990903215234.A523@victis.oeil.qc.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII On 3 Sep, Guylhem Aznar wrote: > OTOH, mini HOWTOs like "VAIO+Linux" shouldn't be called HOWTOs, but > something like "Step By Step Guides", i.e. a precise guide for a precise > question. > > We should provide this kind of documents for all kind of precise > questions (even "Setting sendmail with RH6") for people who don't want > to read global HOWTOs, even if the guide is only 2 pages long, for some > very special topic ("Setting power-saving mode with Toshiba C110 > laptops"). This confuses my original understanding of what HOWTO documents were supposed to be and how they were differentiated from the Guides. The HOWTO documents are meant to be step-by-step instructions I thought. What we probably need is a document that describes the major differences between the major distributions ... covering the matters that commonly cause HOWTO authors to pull their hair out like how the rc files work, and versions of libc in use etc. I think the power saving example is exactly the right sort of thing to have in a Mini-HOWTO. Terry -- terry@albert.animats.net, terry@linux.org.au From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id HAA25974 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 07:01:39 +1000 Received: (qmail 5649 invoked by uid 38); 3 Sep 1999 21:01:30 -0000 Resent-Date: 3 Sep 1999 21:01:30 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: joseph@cheek.com Sender: joseph@saltlake.cheek.com Message-ID: <37D0370A.169121D0@cheek.com> Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 14:00:59 -0700 From: Joseph Cheek Organization: Cheek Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61C-Caldera [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.9 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Guylhem Aznar CC: LDP discuss Subject: Re: Should we split mini HOWTOs? References: <19990903215234.A523@victis.oeil.qc.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <_P5boB.A.IYB.qcD03@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/316 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org this is an idea that i have already started with "kb articles" at the linux knowledge base kbarticles site http://linuxkb.cheek.com/kbarticles/. i only have a few, but i already have people lined up and committed to writing more. i am willing to share what i have with the community [either cobranding my web site or making the db available to others], in return for the same sharing with me. of course, i also agree that specific articles on very specific topics are a good idea. Guylhem Aznar wrote: > Hi, > > I've read most of the responses to Slashdot article, and while I think > we have fixes for an heavy majority of the problems reported, I'm > concerned by some recurrent topic for which I had no plans right until > now : giving precise answers to precise questions. > > For exemple, someone reported : > > << > Could it be that with the 'userfriendly' distributions (RedHat, SuSe) > nowadays less people are interested in the whole story? That could be > another reason for lags in documentation. > > What we need is non-generic HOWTOs. Something which says "In Red Hat > 6, the sendmail configuration file is created from ___ and you are > supposed to modify ___ files. Changing your X fonts is done with ____", > etc. > >> > > Some weeks ago, we had long discussions about mini HOWTOs, we came to > the conclusion they should be considered as plain HOWTOs. > > I think mini HOWTOs like "Fax-Server" or the "Lilo+something" serie > (which is being rewritten by one of the new authors in one big HOWTO) > should be made plain HOWTOs since they address global topics. > > OTOH, mini HOWTOs like "VAIO+Linux" shouldn't be called HOWTOs, but > something like "Step By Step Guides", i.e. a precise guide for a precise > question. > > We should provide this kind of documents for all kind of precise > questions (even "Setting sendmail with RH6") for people who don't want > to read global HOWTOs, even if the guide is only 2 pages long, for some > very special topic ("Setting power-saving mode with Toshiba C110 > laptops"). > > These "Step By Step Guides" could be submitted like standard HOWTOs, > they would just go in a different directory, and be carefully indexed to > ease searching in a "knowledge base" > > I fear this might lead to vendor dependance for some documents, but we > could set strict submission policies, especially for the license (DGPL) > therefore Guides like "Setting sendmail with RH6" could be adapted to > "Setting sendmail with SlackWare" > > I'm very interested in the feedback, if we can agree I'd like to promote > these Guides. > It's only asking people who would not consider themselves as LDP authors > to take some hours to write a clear guide for some problem they have > already experienced and fixed. > > -- > Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org > Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem > Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca > Anywhere/Partout: guylhem-pager \@/ oeil.qc.ca > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Part 1.2Type: application/pgp-signature -- thanks! joe ___ ___ __ | |_ __ __ | |_ __ __ _____ * Joseph Cheek, Director / _)| \ / _) / _)| _) / _) / \ | | * joseph@cheek.com or ( (_ | | |( _)( _)| \ _ ( (_ ( () )| |_| | * (877) CHEEK.COM \__)|_|_| \__) \__)|_\_)(_) \__) \__/ |_| |_| * http://www.cheek.com/ Cheek Consulting, Seattle, provides Linux and Internet solutions linux * web commerce * html * java * perl * php * informix * mysql -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id HAA26171 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 07:44:51 +1000 Received: (qmail 12072 invoked by uid 38); 3 Sep 1999 21:26:35 -0000 Resent-Date: 3 Sep 1999 21:26:34 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: olea@hispalinux.es Sender: olea@maria.ctv.es Message-ID: <37CE5BB4.F1239A77@hispalinux.es> Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 13:12:52 +0200 From: Ismael Olea Organization: Hispalinux X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [es] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.5-15smp i686) X-Accept-Language: es-ES, es, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Guylhem Aznar CC: LDP discuss Subject: Re: Should we split mini HOWTOs? References: <19990903215234.A523@victis.oeil.qc.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <1TfL4C.A.c8C.K0D03@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/317 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Guylhem Aznar escribió: > OTOH, mini HOWTOs like "VAIO+Linux" shouldn't be called HOWTOs, but > something like "Step By Step Guides", :-? Why? > i.e. a precise guide for a precise > question. It's the definition of howto, isn't it? I think we must not classify docs neither by format or size, for example. This confuse readers and librarians. For docs talking about specific architectures hw/sw author must use the adecuate metadata. In our case it must be in the doc's title. Don't mind if a doc is short. It's ok if it's useful and well written. > These "Step By Step Guides" could be submitted like standard HOWTOs, > they would just go in a different directory, and be carefully indexed to > ease searching in a "knowledge base" If one day we develop an bibliographic system, the indexing will be an easy (automated?) task with the help of good metadata. Imo, until that day we must keep a simple doc management: an incorrect classification is almost as bad as haven't docs. -- A.Ismael Olea González olea@iname.com 2:345/108.9@fidonet.org El mundo debe empezar a tener miedo a un planeta DEF -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0013 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 12:37:10 +1000 (EST) From: terry@albert Subject: Re: (no subject) To: guylhem@oeil.qc.ca cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org In-Reply-To: <19990905004914.H976@victis.oeil.qc.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII On 5 Sep, Guylhem Aznar wrote: > Mini refers to size, while we should refer to specificity I've always interpreted 'mini' to be talking about scope rather than size. Terry -- terry@albert.animats.net, terry@linux.org.au From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id LAA13708 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 11:56:42 +1000 Received: (qmail 5507 invoked by uid 38); 5 Sep 1999 01:29:50 -0000 Resent-Date: 5 Sep 1999 01:29:50 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: joseph@cheek.com Sender: joseph@saltlake.cheek.com Message-ID: <37D1C771.B9AD3A1B@cheek.com> Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 18:29:21 -0700 From: Joseph Cheek Organization: Cheek Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61C-Caldera [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.9 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Guylhem Aznar CC: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Should we split mini HOWTOs? References: <19990905004840.G976@victis.oeil.qc.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/333 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org i gather that the dgpl is the documentation gpl? where do i find a copy of it? a quick search of linuxdoc.org, opensource.org, and fsf.org failed to show me anything. Guylhem Aznar wrote: > On Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 02:00:59PM -0700, Joseph Cheek wrote: > > this is an idea that i have already started with "kb articles" at the > > linux knowledge base kbarticles site > > http://linuxkb.cheek.com/kbarticles/. i only have a few, but i > > already have people lined up and committed to writing more. > > Interesting experience. > > > i am willing to share what i have with the community [either > > cobranding my web site or making the db available to others], in > > return for the same sharing with me. > > These articles should be released under DGPL, then you could add a > pointer to your site in a "non technical section". > > -- > Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org > Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem > Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca > Anywhere/Partout: guylhem-pager \@/ oeil.qc.ca > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Part 1.2Type: application/pgp-signature -- thanks! joe ___ ___ __ | |_ __ __ | |_ __ __ _____ * Joseph Cheek, Director / _)| \ / _) / _)| _) / _) / \ | | * joseph@cheek.com or ( (_ | | |( _)( _)| \ _ ( (_ ( () )| |_| | * (877) CHEEK.COM \__)|_|_| \__) \__)|_\_)(_) \__) \__/ |_| |_| * http://www.cheek.com/ Cheek Consulting, Seattle, provides Linux and Internet solutions linux * web commerce * html * java * perl * php * informix * mysql -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id AAA26301 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 00:48:10 +1000 Received: (qmail 25852 invoked by uid 38); 6 Sep 1999 14:47:56 -0000 Resent-Date: 6 Sep 1999 14:47:56 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: psj@mustec.eu.org Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:43:18 +0100 (GMT) From: P Jenner To: Guylhem Aznar cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: LDP-MetaLab status & CVS In-Reply-To: <19990903160748.A889@victis.oeil.qc.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/344 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org On Fri, 3 Sep 1999, Guylhem Aznar wrote: > I was wondering : is there still a strong demand for CVS? I believe there is. A large number of people would like to have CVS read access to the latest LDP sources so they can both use them to build documents but also (and obviously more importantly) have the ability to make a positive contribution to the latest working revisions of LDP documents via the author. Paul ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul S Jenner GNU/Linux Advocate E-mail: psj@mustec.eu.org WWW: http://www.mustec.eu.org/~psj/ UNSOLICITED COMMERCIAL E-MAIL IS NOT WELCOME AT THIS ADDRESS ----------------------------------------------------------------------- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id AAA26327 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 00:53:15 +1000 Received: (qmail 30206 invoked by uid 38); 6 Sep 1999 14:53:08 -0000 Resent-Date: 6 Sep 1999 14:53:08 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: psj@mustec.eu.org Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:48:33 +0100 (GMT) From: P Jenner To: Guylhem Aznar cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Should we split mini HOWTOs? In-Reply-To: <19990903215234.A523@victis.oeil.qc.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/345 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org On Fri, 3 Sep 1999, Guylhem Aznar wrote: > Some weeks ago, we had long discussions about mini HOWTOs, we came to > the conclusion they should be considered as plain HOWTOs. I agree. The distinction is pretty weak when it comes to finding information as an LDP user. It only really seems to serve to confuse in my experience. > OTOH, mini HOWTOs like "VAIO+Linux" shouldn't be called HOWTOs, but > something like "Step By Step Guides", i.e. a precise guide for a precise > question. > These "Step By Step Guides" could be submitted like standard HOWTOs, > they would just go in a different directory, and be carefully indexed to > ease searching in a "knowledge base" Also a good idea in the eyes of someone who has used such resources. A "knowledge base" as opposed to a hierarchy of documents is a more felxible and usable approach. > I fear this might lead to vendor dependance for some documents, but we > could set strict submission policies, especially for the license (DGPL) > therefore Guides like "Setting sendmail with RH6" could be adapted to > "Setting sendmail with SlackWare" Again I agree. Vendor dependence should definitely be avoided but if people are having problems setting up sendmail under RH6 and someone has written a useful and open explanation, why should users of the LDP be denied it? As you say, an open licence also allows easy modification for other vendors anyway. Paul ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul S Jenner GNU/Linux Advocate E-mail: psj@mustec.eu.org WWW: http://www.mustec.eu.org/~psj/ UNSOLICITED COMMERCIAL E-MAIL IS NOT WELCOME AT THIS ADDRESS ----------------------------------------------------------------------- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id EAA14931 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 04:42:48 +1000 Received: (qmail 14250 invoked by uid 38); 9 Sep 1999 18:41:34 -0000 Resent-Date: 9 Sep 1999 18:41:34 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: pjones@metalab.unc.edu X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: pjones owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:41:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul Jones X-Sender: pjones@titan.oit.unc.edu To: Guylhem Aznar cc: LDP discuss , Jonathan Magid , Don Sizemore Subject: Re: Local LDPs In-Reply-To: <19990908215648.B446@victis.oeil.qc.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/355 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org just so US isn't automatically the default domain--afterall we might have special requirements too someday (or even now). On Wed, 8 Sep 1999, Guylhem Aznar wrote: > ========================================= > Local LDP : US (United States of American) > - site : http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP > - mailing list : ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org > - leader email : pjones@metalab.unc.edu > ========================================= > > For exemple : > > Local LDP : pt (portuguese) > - site : http://www.poli.org > - mailing list : I-don-t-know@poli.org > - leader : Alfredo Palace > > -- > Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org > Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem > Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca > Anywhere/Partout: guylhem-pager \@/ oeil.qc.ca > ========================================================================== Paul Jones "We must protect our precious bodily fluids!" General Jack D Ripper http://MetaLab.unc.edu/pjones/ at the Site Formerly Known As SunSITE.unc.edu pjones@MetaLab.unc.edu voice: (919) 962-7600 fax: (919) 962-8071 =========================================================================== -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id WAA19792 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:12:52 +1000 Received: (qmail 28018 invoked by uid 38); 10 Sep 1999 12:12:43 -0000 Resent-Date: 10 Sep 1999 12:12:43 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: psj@mustec.eu.org Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:07:03 +0100 (GMT) From: P Jenner To: Guylhem Aznar cc: LDP discuss Subject: Re: QC draft In-Reply-To: <19990910001209.A20181@victis.oeil.qc.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/359 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org I agree with the foundation of a QC group and its aims. However I am slightly worried about how the implementation of the mainifesto may impact community quality control. One of the main strengths of the Open Source movement (with docs as well as code) is its ability to harness the energies of the community to improve what is out there. I do not think this model should be forgotten when it comes to quality control and I should emphasise that whatever QC exists within the LDP organisation the best QC is the community. Therefore community additions and modifications should be given as much weight and consideration as official QC ones, such community submissions should be facilitated and encouraged as they are so successfully with Open Source code (look at the success of the GNOME project for the best template around) and if QC modifications are consistently rejected by the community then that community should be respected - after all that is who we do this for. Comments? Paul ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul S Jenner GNU/Linux Advocate E-mail: psj@mustec.eu.org WWW: http://www.mustec.eu.org/~psj/ UNSOLICITED COMMERCIAL E-MAIL IS NOT WELCOME AT THIS ADDRESS ----------------------------------------------------------------------- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id DAA21334 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 03:58:06 +1000 Received: (qmail 6925 invoked by uid 38); 10 Sep 1999 17:56:49 -0000 Resent-Date: 10 Sep 1999 17:56:49 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: poet@linuxports.com Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:06:15 -0700 (PDT) From: "Mr. Poet" X-Sender: jd@crazypenguins.commandprompt.com To: Guylhem Aznar cc: LDP discuss , ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org, recipient list not shown: ; Subject: Re: Local LDPs In-Reply-To: <19990910134122.B2470@victis.oeil.qc.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/363 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Please let me know when all the pointers are live and I will add an area to the website for regional LDP's. Poet Development in Real Time LinuxPorts - http://www.linuxports.com LDP - http://www.linuxdoc.org LDP - Howto Co-Coordinator Consultants - VAR - Commercial - Networking - WWW/Intranet On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, Guylhem Aznar wrote: > On Wed, Sep 08, 1999 at 09:56:48PM +0200, Guylhem Aznar wrote: > > The following local LDPs have registered : > > fr, es, it, de, sl, kr, id, jp, hr, sb, gk, pt, br, au > > it, de, sl, kr, hr, sb, gk, br, au should fill in the form. > > -- > Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org > Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem > Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca > Anywhere/Partout: guylhem-pager \@/ oeil.qc.ca > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id HAA10236 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 07:03:26 +1000 Received: (qmail 23939 invoked by uid 38); 16 Sep 1999 21:03:12 -0000 Resent-Date: 16 Sep 1999 21:03:12 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: pjones@metalab.unc.edu X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: pjones owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:03:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul Jones X-Sender: pjones@titan.oit.unc.edu To: Guylhem Aznar cc: LDP discuss Subject: Re: Are we good enough ? In-Reply-To: <19990916100646.B10996@victis.oeil.qc.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/460 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org just a note to say that i love the look of the new LDP pages and I can actually find more stuff that I'm after thanks, I think, to deeper searching. let us know what more we can do to help out at our end. ========================================================================== Paul Jones "We must protect our precious bodily fluids!" General Jack D Ripper http://MetaLab.unc.edu/pjones/ at the Site Formerly Known As SunSITE.unc.edu pjones@MetaLab.unc.edu voice: (919) 962-7600 fax: (919) 962-8071 =========================================================================== -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id BAA22422 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 01:58:53 +1000 Received: (qmail 11674 invoked by uid 38); 18 Sep 1999 15:56:25 -0000 Resent-Date: 18 Sep 1999 15:56:25 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: bf347@lafn.org Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 08:55:55 -0700 Message-Id: <199909181555.AA19405@lafn.org> From: bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer) To: guylhem@oeil.qc.ca Subject: Re: Translations (to English?) Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Reply-To: bf347@lafn.org Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/488 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org David Lawyer wrote: > but we have mini-howtos on DSL and Cable modems in English. Guyhlem wrote: > >Could you include them in the mini HOWTO ? > I think you mean merge the HOWTOs re modems. I don't think merger is a good idea in this case. Having them separate splits up the work. Smaller howtos also download faster and put less of a load on the net. Even where there is considerable overlap, it's often better not to merge. For example, both Text-Terminal-HOWTO and Modem-HOWTO have info on the serial port. But the emphasis is different since terminals may need to configure parity while modems don't, etc. Thus it's easier for the reader to have 2 different documents with different emphasis on the common topics. David Lawyer -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id DAA09177 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 03:56:59 +1000 Received: (qmail 5629 invoked by uid 38); 19 Sep 1999 17:49:33 -0000 Resent-Date: 19 Sep 1999 17:49:32 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: poet@linuxports.com Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 10:52:59 -0700 (PDT) From: "Mr. Poet" X-Sender: jd@crazypenguins.commandprompt.com To: Guylhem Aznar cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: linuxdoc.org: copyright and Manifesto In-Reply-To: <19990919002258.A973@victis.oeil.qc.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <7DC-kD.A.vWB.qIS53@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/501 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Hello, I don't think we should "favor" any license/copyright. We should only have a set of conditions that any document that is part of the LDP must meet. Beyond that any author should be free to do what he/she/it wishes in regards to their document. Poet LinuxPorts - http://www.linuxports.com LDP - http://www.linuxdoc.org On Sun, 19 Sep 1999, Guylhem Aznar wrote: > On Sat, Sep 18, 1999 at 07:41:26AM -0700, {poet} wrote: > > Personally I still think it is stupid that we allow LICENSING of > > documentation. The GPL is not a documentation license. People have > > stated that it will work for documentation, this may be true but it is > > still a little backwards.. > > We asked RMS to write a DGPL, it will be ready in a near future. > > I think we should prefer it to any other license. > > However, each author would be free to choose any other license, we could > just recommand DGPL. > > -- > Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org > Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem > Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca > Save East Timor: http://altern.org/spoirier/timor.html http://www.pst-timor.org > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id PAA19262 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:04:11 +1000 Received: (qmail 7656 invoked by uid 38); 21 Sep 1999 05:03:57 -0000 Resent-Date: 21 Sep 1999 05:03:57 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: jim@jimpick.com Sender: jim@pepper.jimpick.com To: Guylhem Aznar Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org, Lars Wirzenius Subject: Updating Internic info for linuxdoc.org X-Url: http://www.jimpick.com/ From: Jim Pick Date: 20 Sep 1999 22:02:58 -0700 Message-ID: <87yae06em5.fsf@pepper.jimpick.com> Lines: 270 User-Agent: Gnus/5.070095 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.95) XEmacs/20.4 (Emerald) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/524 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Hi Guylhem, (I've cc:'d to the ldp-discuss list and Lars so that everything is out in the open) Since you are the new leader of the LDP, we should update the authoritative contact record for the linuxdoc.org domain so that it lists you, and not Lars. If you could fill out the blank lines on the form (marked "X"), I can send the form into hostmaster@internic.net to make the changes. (or you can send the form in yourself) I've also added on a new nameserver (cosmos.jimpick.com) for some additional redundancy. Cheers, - Jim ---------------------------------------------------- This is the Domain Name Registration Agreement you recently created. In order to complete this modification, YOU MUST E-MAIL THIS FORM TO: hostmaster@internic.net After you e-mail this form, you should receive an auto-reply with a tracking number. You must use that number in the Subject of any future messages you send regarding this registration action. Once this registration action is completed you will receive a notification via e-mail. [ URL http://www.networksolutions.com/cgi-bin/domain ] [ 03/98 ] [ URL ftp://rs.internic.net/templates/domain-template.txt ] [ 03/98 ] ******* Please DO NOT REMOVE Version Number or Sections A-Q ******** Domain Version Number: 4.0 ******* Email completed agreement to hostmaster@internic.net ******* NETWORK SOLUTIONS, INC. DOMAIN NAME REGISTRATION AGREEMENT A. Introduction. This domain name registration agreement ("Registration Agreement") is submitted to NETWORK SOLUTIONS, INC. ("NSI") for the purpose of applying for and registering a domain name on the Internet. If this Registration Agreement is accepted by NSI, and a domain name is registered in NSI's domain name database and assigned to the Registrant, Registrant ("Registrant") agrees to be bound by the terms of this Registration Agreement and the terms of NSI's Domain Name Dispute Policy ("Dispute Policy") which is incorporated herein by reference and made a part of this Registration Agreement. This Registration Agreement shall be accepted at the offices of NSI. B. Fees and Payments. 1) Registration or renewal (re-registration) date through March 31, 1998: Registrant agrees to pay a registration fee of One Hundred United States Dollars (US) as consideration for the registration of each new domain name or Fifty United States Dollars (US) to renew (re-register) an existing registration. 2) Registration or renewal date on and after April 1, 1998: Registrant agrees to pay a registration fee of Seventy United States Dollars (US) as consideration for the registration of each new domain name or the applicable renewal (re-registration) fee (currently Thirty-Five United States Dollars (US)) at the time of renewal (re-registration). 3) Period of Service: The non-refundable fee covers a period of two (2) years for each new registration, and one (1) year for each renewal, and includes any permitted modification(s) to the domain name record during the covered period. 4) Payment: Payment is due to Network Solutions within thirty (30) days from the date of the invoice. C. Dispute Policy. Registrant agrees, as a condition to submitting this Registration Agreement, and if the Registration Agreement is accepted by NSI, that the Registrant shall be bound by NSI's current Dispute Policy. The current version of the Dispute Policy may be found at the InterNIC Registration Services web site: "http://www.netsol.com/rs/dispute-policy.html". D. Dispute Policy Changes or Modifications. Registrant agrees that NSI, in its sole discretion, may change or modify the Dispute Policy, incorporated by reference herein, at any time. Registrant agrees that Registrant's maintaining the registration of a domain name after changes or modifications to the Dispute Policy become effective constitutes Registrant's continued acceptance of these changes or modifications. Registrant agrees that if Registrant considers any such changes or modifications to be unacceptable, Registrant may request that the domain name be deleted from the domain name database. E. Disputes. Registrant agrees that, if the registration of its domain name is challenged by any third party, the Registrant will be subject to the provisions specified in the Dispute Policy. F. Agents. Registrant agrees that if this Registration Agreement is completed by an agent for the Registrant, such as an ISP or Administrative Contact/Agent, the Registrant is nonetheless bound as a principal by all terms and conditions herein, including the Dispute Policy. G. Limitation of Liability. Registrant agrees that NSI shall have no liability to the Registrant for any loss Registrant may incur in connection with NSI's processing of this Registration Agreement, in connection with NSI's processing of any authorized modification to the domain name's record during the covered period, as a result of the Registrant's ISP's failure to pay either the initial registration fee or renewal fee, or as a result of the application of the provisions of the Dispute Policy. Registrant agrees that in no event shall the maximum liability of NSI under this Agreement for any matter exceed Five Hundred United States Dollars (US). H. Indemnity. Registrant agrees, in the event the Registration Agreement is accepted by NSI and a subsequent dispute arises with any third party, to indemnify and hold NSI harmless pursuant to the terms and conditions contained in the Dispute Policy. I. Breach. Registrant agrees that failure to abide by any provision of this Registration Agreement or the Dispute Policy may be considered by NSI to be a material breach and that NSI may provide a written notice, describing the breach, to the Registrant. If, within thirty (30) days of the date of mailing such notice, the Registrant fails to provide evidence, which is reasonably satisfactory to NSI, that it has not breached its obligations, then NSI may delete Registrant's registration of the domain name. Any such breach by a Registrant shall not be deemed to be excused simply because NSI did not act earlier in response to that, or any other, breach by the Registrant. J. No Guaranty. Registrant agrees that, by registration of a domain name, such registration does not confer immunity from objection to either the registration or use of the domain name. K. Warranty. Registrant warrants by submitting this Registration Agreement that, to the best of Registrant's knowledge and belief, the information submitted herein is true and correct, and that any future changes to this information will be provided to NSI in a timely manner according to the domain name modification procedures in place at that time. Breach of this warranty will constitute a material breach. L. Revocation. Registrant agrees that NSI may delete a Registrant's domain name if this Registration Agreement, or subsequent modification(s) thereto, contains false or misleading information, or conceals or omits any information NSI would likely consider material to its decision to approve this Registration Agreement. M. Right of Refusal. NSI, in its sole discretion, reserves the right to refuse to approve the Registration Agreement for any Registrant. Registrant agrees that the submission of this Registration Agreement does not obligate NSI to accept this Registration Agreement. Registrant agrees that NSI shall not be liable for loss or damages that may result from NSI's refusal to accept this Registration Agreement. N. Severability. Registrant agrees that the terms of this Registration Agreement are severable. If any term or provision is declared invalid, it shall not affect the remaining terms or provisions which shall continue to be binding. O. Entirety. Registrant agrees that this Registration Agreement and the Dispute Policy is the complete and exclusive agreement between Registrant and NSI regarding the registration of Registrant's domain name. This Registration Agreement and the Dispute Policy supersede all prior agreements and understandings, whether established by custom, practice, policy, or precedent. P. Governing Law. Registrant agrees that this Registration Agreement shall be governed in all respects by and construed in accordance with the laws of the Commonwealth of Virginia, United States of America. By submitting this Registration Agreement, Registrant consents to the exclusive jurisdiction and venue of the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia, Alexandria Division. If there is no jurisdiction in the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia, Alexandria Division, then jurisdiction shall be in the Circuit Court of Fairfax County, Fairfax, Virginia. Q. This is Domain Name Registration Agreement Version Number 4.0. This Registration Agreement is only for registrations under top-level domains: COM, ORG, NET, and EDU. By completing and submitting this Registration Agreement for consideration and acceptance by NSI, the Registrant agrees that he/she has read and agrees to be bound by A through P above. Authorization 0a. (N)ew (M)odify (D)elete.........: M Name Registration 0b. Auth Scheme.....................: MAIL-FROM 0c. Auth Info.......................: 1. Comments........................: 2. Complete Domain Name............: linuxdoc.org Organization Using Domain Name 3a. Organization Name................: Linux Documentation Project 3b. Street Address..................: X 3c. City............................: X 3d. State...........................: PQ 3e. Postal Code.....................: X 3f. Country.........................: CA Administrative Contact 4a. NIC Handle (if known)...........: 4b. (I)ndividual (R)ole?............: Individual 4c. Name (Last, First)..............: Guylhem Aznar 4d. Organization Name...............: Linux Documentation Project 4e. Street Address..................: X 4f. City............................: X 4g. State...........................: PQ 4h. Postal Code.....................: X 4i. Country.........................: CA 4j. Phone Number....................: X 4k. Fax Number......................: X 4l. E-Mailbox.......................: guylhem@oeil.qc.ca Technical Contact 5a. NIC Handle (if known)...........: JP1946 5b. (I)ndividual (R)ole?............: Individual 5c. Name(Last, First)...............: 5d. Organization Name...............: 5e. Street Address..................: 5f. City............................: 5g. State...........................: 5h. Postal Code.....................: 5i. Country.........................: 5j. Phone Number....................: 5k. Fax Number......................: 5l. E-Mailbox.......................: Billing Contact 6a. NIC Handle (if known)...........: JP1946 6b. (I)ndividual (R)ole?............: Individual 6c. Name (Last, First)..............: 6d. Organization Name...............: 6e. Street Address..................: 6f. City............................: 6g. State...........................: 6h. Postal Code.....................: 6i. Country.........................: 6j. Phone Number....................: 6k. Fax Number......................: 6l. E-Mailbox.......................: Prime Name Server 7a. Primary Server Hostname.........: TIA.JIMPICK.COM 7b. Primary Server Netaddress.......: 204.209.212.111 Secondary Name Server(s) 8a. Secondary Server Hostname.......: CA.MOBILEDNS.NET 8b. Secondary Server Netaddress.....: 24.112.120.187 8a. Secondary Server Hostname..: cosmos.jimpick.com 8b. Secondary Server Netaddress: 139.142.87.223 END OF AGREEMENT For instructions, please refer to: "http://www.networksolutions.com/help/changes/inst_mod.html" -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id UAA27398 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 20:41:20 +1000 Received: (qmail 27081 invoked by uid 38); 22 Sep 1999 10:40:50 -0000 Resent-Date: 22 Sep 1999 10:40:50 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: andrea@linux.it Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:12:47 +0200 From: Andrea Fanfani To: Guylhem Aznar Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Corel Debian Message-ID: <19990922171247.C200@akela> References: <19990921112822.A956@victis.oeil.qc.ca> <19990922011907.C288@akela> <19990922003629.A1215@victis.oeil.qc.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="hQiwHBbRI9kgIhsi" User-Agent: Mutt/1.0pre2i In-Reply-To: <19990922003629.A1215@victis.oeil.qc.ca> Resent-Message-ID: <_pIHyD.A.ymG.xIL63@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/539 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org --hQiwHBbRI9kgIhsi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 12:36:29AM +0200, Guylhem Aznar wrote: [...] > That's why I asked it for the LDP, not for a single person. >=20 No, simply because (probably) there will some changes in the license, because everybody are waiting a clarification. Regards=20 Andrea --=20 Andrea Fanfani andrea@debian.org andrea@linux.it --hQiwHBbRI9kgIhsi Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE36PHvLGCPReZDN/MRATRnAJ4pV0gI+8ego02nluQJroMJw2fdowCePAzp CFN/jSsrnP5mClpu85j2iPo= =iSU2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --hQiwHBbRI9kgIhsi-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id FAA04707 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 05:51:43 +1000 Received: (qmail 22280 invoked by uid 38); 26 Sep 1999 19:51:36 -0000 Resent-Date: 26 Sep 1999 19:51:36 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: apharris@burrito.onshore.com Sender: apharris@burrito.onshore.com To: Guylhem Aznar Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: why sgmltools being unmaintained isn't so much of a problem References: <19990926182950.E1752@victis.oeil.qc.ca> From: Adam Di Carlo Date: 26 Sep 1999 15:51:42 -0400 In-Reply-To: Guylhem Aznar's message of "Sun, 26 Sep 1999 18:29:50 +0200" Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.070096 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.96) Emacs/20.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/583 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Content-Length: 0 Lines: 18 Guylhem Aznar writes: > The SGMLtools we use are unmaintained :-( Assuming folks are able to compile/install the sgml toolchain itself, the need for SGMLtools honestly isn't that great. After all, the toolchain is shipped as RedHat packages (by Mark Gallassi) and as official Debian packages (esp. see my 'task-sgml' metapackge which should pull everything in). Now, once we have all that going, the only benefit of SGMLtools is the 'sgmltools' script, which can very easily be replaced by some standard makefile suffix rules. So why all the hand-wringing about SGMLtools? -- .....Adam Di Carlo....adam@onShore.com..... -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id QAA07894 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:04:30 +1000 Received: (qmail 21536 invoked by uid 38); 27 Sep 1999 06:03:47 -0000 Resent-Date: 27 Sep 1999 06:03:47 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: bf347@lafn.org Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 23:03:26 -0700 Message-Id: <199909270603.AA01352@lafn.org> From: bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer) To: guylhem@oeil.qc.ca Subject: Re: QC volunteers? (Was: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd)) Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Reply-To: bf347@lafn.org Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/598 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > >You have ; I'll try to explain how HOWTOs should be submitted now :=20 >any new HOWTO or updated HOWTO *must* be sent to ldp-submit ml. > >On this list, many ppl receive them, therefore delivery problems are >avoided. > >If Tim receive no negative feedback by QC, he can include them ; if they >aren't processed say 1 week later, our webmasters will add a copy to the >'incoming' section of linuxdoc.org (Joshua, could you add a link on the >main page ?) > >Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org I think that waiting one week is way too long for a small revision to a HOWTO. You should have a password/signature system and put them onsite immediately. The only docs that should be held for QC are first-time submissions or when a new maintainer first takes over a doc and makes significant changes. Other docs should undergo QC when they are already posted at the LDP sites so that no delay is introduced. The person doing the QC should hopefully understand the topic so they can spot mistakes. It should be pointed out that "incoming" means to be posted to the LDP and mirror sites. There should also be another 'incoming' section for docs waiting for QC. David Lawyer -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id QAA07917 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:08:27 +1000 Received: (qmail 25504 invoked by uid 38); 27 Sep 1999 06:08:19 -0000 Resent-Date: 27 Sep 1999 06:08:19 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: bf347@lafn.org Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 23:08:04 -0700 Message-Id: <199909270608.AA01702@lafn.org> From: bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer) To: guylhem@oeil.qc.ca Subject: Re: Help compiling SGML Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Reply-To: bf347@lafn.org Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/599 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > >Guylhem Aznar wrote: >* : current manifesto is a bit old, and should be updated/fixed. >David, do you have time to update it, following the ideas you >previously gave here ? (we *need* a LDP license guide) OK, I'll get to work on it. David Lawyer -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:04:54 +1000 (EST) From: terry@albert Subject: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd) To: guylhem@oeil.qc.ca cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org In-Reply-To: <19990928112021.B1019@victis.oeil.qc.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII On 28 Sep, Guylhem Aznar wrote: > Who agrees with Joshua idea (2 month/30 days/60 days, i.e. letting some > copyright to the LDP to ensure future updates) ? A definite NO. The LDP cannot hold copyright to anything, it doesn't exist as a legal entity. In any case, the whole point of using free licenses is specifically to allow *anyone* at any time to pick them up and improve on them. It is unnecessary to add any such draconian rules if the document licenses allow freedom. > Who disagrees and think all copyrights should be kept by each author ? I think these are two seperate questions, not flip sides of the same one. There is the question of "ownership" ie copyright, and there is the question of license terms. They're different things. > There will not be any arbitrar decision. It will be arbitrary. What are the terms of the vote? How will it work? What happens to the will of the majority of authors who either aren't subscribed to this list, don't have time to follow the discussion, or are too busy to answer before someone decides the (unstated) voting period has ended? Terry -- terry@albert.animats.net, terry@linux.org.au From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id DAA11196 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 03:53:24 +1000 Received: (qmail 2964 invoked by uid 38); 27 Sep 1999 17:53:07 -0000 Resent-Date: 27 Sep 1999 17:53:07 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: djb@redhat.com Message-Id: <199909271752.NAA03210@chef.meridian.redhat.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 To: Guylhem Aznar cc: "Mr. Poet" , Vladimir Vuksan , ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd) In-reply-to: <19990926182334.C1752@victis.oeil.qc.ca> from Guylhem Aznar on Sun, 26 Sep 1999 18:23:34 +0200. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:52:42 -0400 From: Donnie Barnes Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/609 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > > We are also working on producing an online disccusion area plus licensing > > issues. > > A new LDP manifesto with a license guide will be written. I suppose we should identify problems with the current manifesto before re-writing it. Some here have problems with it, others (like myself) like the current one. I guess the new leader wins? I personally don't care for that structure. I still feel that any license that conforms to the current manifesto is fine for the LDP. If you require a single license *or* require that the license allow document modification by third parties, I will no longer consider contributing LDP documentation. (No, I haven't done much lately, but I certainly wouldn't consider doing more in the future, either.) We've had these arguments a gazillion times. The LDP was originally setup more as a set of tools for writing documentation as well as an archive for the things that were produced. That allowed the LDP to enjoy great success in having *the* largest volume of works collected in one place that were *freely redistributable*. Your changes will move the LDP more into the realm of a tightly controlled project with a much more narrow agenda and likely less works available for consumption. Sure, they might have better QC, but they may also leave things unanswered because the document that did have the answers didn't fit the LDP criteria. I think that's a shame. --Donnie -- Donnie Barnes http://www.donniebarnes.com djb@donniebarnes.com "Bah." Challenge Diversity. Ignore People. Live Life. Use Linux. 879. V. Bats, when dipped in batter and deep fried, still taste pretty bad. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id GAA11985 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 06:28:09 +1000 Received: (qmail 26430 invoked by uid 38); 27 Sep 1999 20:25:55 -0000 Resent-Date: 27 Sep 1999 20:25:55 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: joseph@cheek.com From: "Joseph Cheek" To: "Guylhem Aznar" Cc: "ldp discussion list" Subject: RE: dgpl status? Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:25:16 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 In-Reply-To: <19990926175752.D1646@victis.oeil.qc.ca> Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/616 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Hi guylhem, Comments below... thanks! joe cheek.com * Joseph Cheek, Director joseph@cheek.com or (206) 282-2892 or http://www.cheek.com/ Cheek Consulting, Seattle, provides Linux and Internet solutions linux * web commerce * html * java * perl * php * informix * mysql -----Original Message----- From: Guylhem Aznar [mailto:guylhem@oeil.qc.ca] Sent: Sunday, September 26, 1999 8:58 AM To: Joseph Cheek Subject: Re: dgpl status? On Sat, Sep 25, 1999 at 03:55:53PM -0700, Joseph Cheek wrote: > you sent me a copy of the dgpl a few weeks ago, thanks. has that been > approved/ratified yet? do any submissions to the ldp need to be under Sorry, it is not finished. [joseph cheek] ok, no problem... > that license? it appears the new web site still shows old licensing > information. I'd prefer new submissions to be released under 'DGPL v1.0 or greater' because it will keep documentation free while protecting your rights as an author. > think the relationship i would like to have between the linuxkb and the > ldp would be a peer-to-peer relationship where we share content in both > directions but are but considered subservient in either direction -- it > appears to me that i can either use ldp stuff for free [beer and speech] > or i can contribute as a member of ldp for free [beer and speech] but i > cannot work alongside the ldp. i would like to share my content with > the ldp but not become a contributor whereby the linuxkb becomes a > subset of the ldp. You should discuss this on the list, you're not the first one to report this ; [joseph cheek] are any others interested in this type of arrangement between themselves and the ldp? however please consider you could get more readers (we would sponsor it, link it...) while keeping *total* control. [joseph cheek] ...by doing what? By becoming an ldp author? By becoming an ldp peer? By becoming an ldp leech? Not quite sure what you mean here. Please help me understand what you mean. Sooner or later the mini HOWTOs will have to evoluate in a kind of 'LDP knowledge base', [joseph cheek] fine... and that could cause problems with your linuxkb. [joseph cheek] only if we have not reached some type of arrangement by that time. I'd actually love to have some type of content-sharing agreement with the ldp, right now I'm just leeching your stuff but not really contributing back [the only way it seems I can, now, is by becoming an author and maintaining a howto or minihowto, as I understand it. [joseph cheek] I'd much rather 1] provide real-world feedback on the content of your howto's based on feedback I get from the linuxkb, 2] contribute changes [suggestions for improvement, rather, I don't want to step on the author's toes] to the ldp - I can do this an an author-by-author basis or work-by-work now, but it would be great to have some centralized authority to at least submit these to, and 3] provide some of our original content to the ldp [kbarticles, most likely]. [joseph cheek] in order for me to do this, all I need to start is a "yes, we would like that too" from the ldp. Then we could agree on terms, what format you want the data in [sgmltools?], how to get it to you, etc. I am in the process of negotiating content deals with other linux-oriented web sites, primarily back-end db sharing, but I expect they would love to give you content in a manner that you could digest it also. Perhaps I should write a linuxkb.db->sgml.ldp converter, and then I wouldn't have to use sgmltools... just a thought. [joseph cheek] in return I would get the benefit of not having to reinvent your content to fit my site, not having to maintain two different versions of the same content so that I could contribute it as an ldp author, and perhaps you would be able to use some of my content either verbatim or included in the ldp. [joseph cheek] I expect that there are others that would love to contribute content to the ldp, they would be ecstatic to do so, but not as a single-author/per-work basis. I can't really speak for others, tho. Thanks for reading this far 8-). -- Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Save East Timor: http://altern.org/spoirier/timor.html http://www.pst-timor.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id HAA12492 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 07:51:51 +1000 Received: (qmail 14705 invoked by uid 38); 27 Sep 1999 21:51:43 -0000 Resent-Date: 27 Sep 1999 21:51:43 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: vuksan@cs.unm.edu Sender: vuksan@cs.unm.edu Message-ID: <37EFE6D5.C95B1C42@cs.unm.edu> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:51:17 -0600 From: Vladimir Vuksan X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.10 i686) X-Accept-Language: hr, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Guylhem Aznar , LDP discuss Subject: Re: QC volunteers? (Was: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd)) References: <19990927010258.A4503@victis.oeil.qc.ca> <19990927213432.A3665@victis.oeil.qc.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/622 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Guylhem Aznar wrote: > > On Mon, Sep 27, 1999 at 08:17:23AM -0600, Vladimir Vuksan wrote: > > > > That sounds great but how do I pull my documents off LDP ? > > > > > > Do you want to remove your documents from the LDP ? > > > > Yes I would like to remove my documents from LDP. > > Then please give us a list, we'll remove them and : > > - try to find other volunteers to rewrite these documents from scratch > if you are the original author > > - update from previous version if you are a maintainer > > With this example, I think we really need a special clause to the > manifesto to leave some rights to the LDP if an author want to take his > document off :-( The two mini-HOWTOs in question are Cable Modem mini-HOWTO and DHCP mini-HOWTO. Let me know once you removed them. I plan to host them on my own web site and likely through the OSWG's documentation project. Take care, Vladimir -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id AAA17119 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 00:35:04 +1000 Received: (qmail 30034 invoked by uid 38); 28 Sep 1999 14:32:52 -0000 Resent-Date: 28 Sep 1999 14:32:52 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: djb@redhat.com Message-Id: <199909281432.KAA01504@chef.meridian.redhat.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 To: Guylhem Aznar cc: "Mr. Poet" , Vladimir Vuksan , ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd) In-reply-to: <19990927214735.C3665@victis.oeil.qc.ca> from Guylhem Aznar on Mon, 27 Sep 1999 21:47:35 +0200. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 10:32:28 -0400 From: Donnie Barnes Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/636 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > He's a short sum up : > - the document must be released under a free license (with details in > the new manifesto, a license guide, and a set of license) > - the document must be freely redistributable and printable, but short > exclusivity (less than 1 year) can be given for initial publication > - the author must accept, if he can't be reached for more than 2 month > or if he ever decides to stop maintaining his document, that someone > else will be given the right to maintain his document (while > acknowledging previous author of course) under the same license > > Not only must we write free documentation, but we must also ensure it > will remain free and available. So an author takes a three month sabbatical and loses control of his/her document? No thanks. Look, you're taking one problem and creating another to solve it. If I want to maintain control of my document (while still allowing free redistribution and such), the LDP shouldn't exclude me from making my work available to it. It is better to have that work available until the author goes away and it has to be removed than to never have that work at all, and that's the situation you've made for yourself. *I* am an example of an author who would *not* put his work under such a license (and thus have it included in the LDP) if that were a requirement. So, which is it? Lose documents, or ensure that the ones you have you will always have? Again, I think the current situation has served us fine. Which document are we going to have to remove because the author can't be reached? --Donnie -- Donnie Barnes http://www.donniebarnes.com djb@donniebarnes.com "Bah." Challenge Diversity. Ignore People. Live Life. Use Linux. 879. V. Bats, when dipped in batter and deep fried, still taste pretty bad. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id EAA18083 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 04:08:33 +1000 Received: (qmail 9697 invoked by uid 38); 28 Sep 1999 18:06:18 -0000 Resent-Date: 28 Sep 1999 18:06:17 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: djb@redhat.com Message-Id: <199909281805.OAA04268@chef.meridian.redhat.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 To: Guylhem Aznar cc: Vladimir Vuksan , LDP discuss Subject: Re: QC volunteers? (Was: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd)) In-reply-to: <19990927213432.A3665@victis.oeil.qc.ca> from Guylhem Aznar on Mon, 27 Sep 1999 21:34:32 +0200. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 14:05:53 -0400 From: Donnie Barnes Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/638 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > > Yes I would like to remove my documents from LDP. > > Then please give us a list, we'll remove them and : > > - try to find other volunteers to rewrite these documents from scratch > if you are the original author > > - update from previous version if you are a maintainer > > With this example, I think we really need a special clause to the > manifesto to leave some rights to the LDP if an author want to take his > document off :-( There you go again. You're trying to make the LDP something that it doesn't have to be. Namely, a controlling and manipulative organization. I can guarantee you this: I would never, EVER use a license on my document that allows for what you just said. You're being ludicrous. Just because an author no longer accepts the goals and objectives of the LDP is no reason for you to think you have some ownership of his content. If an author wants to give that to you, fine. But otherwise, it's his and you simply MUST respect that. Why is this so hard? It's called life. You win some, and you lose some. If the documentation *exists* for free, there is not even a reason to bother finding another author to replicate it *just* for the LDP. No, the LDP doesn't cover the topic. Fine. Someone does, though. Did you ever consider the fact that even if he does remove his docs from the LDP that he might still leave them under a license that allows the LDP to simply pull them anyway? Sure, he's not on your author list and you now have to *poll* for updates instead of having them handed to you, but that's not an unmanageable situation, either. Put them in a different area or something. Sheesh, methinks the LDP is starting to stray in directions that I don't care to see it go. --Donnie -- Donnie Barnes http://www.donniebarnes.com djb@donniebarnes.com "Bah." Challenge Diversity. Ignore People. Live Life. Use Linux. 879. V. Bats, when dipped in batter and deep fried, still taste pretty bad. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id KAA20013 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:31:15 +1000 Received: (qmail 22478 invoked by uid 38); 29 Sep 1999 00:31:04 -0000 Resent-Date: 29 Sep 1999 00:31:04 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: bf347@lafn.org Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:30:43 -0700 Message-Id: <199909290030.AA27049@lafn.org> From: bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer) To: guylhem@oeil.qc.ca Subject: Re: QC volunteers? (Was: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd)) Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Reply-To: bf347@lafn.org Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/644 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org >> > Do you want to remove your documents from the LDP ? >> Yes I would like to remove my documents from LDP. Guylhem Aznar wrote: >Then please give us a list, we'll remove them and : > >With this example, I think we really need a special clause to the >manifesto to leave some rights to the LDP if an author want to take his >document off :-( We don't have to remove them unless we want to. This is because the license permits free distribution and it can't be revoked except by legal means such as a court order or by a termination clause in the license. (There's no termination clause in these, I've checked). The license is a contract which in this case is between the author and the LDP (or between the author and Tim Bynum if you want to argue that the LDP is not a legal entity). Now anyone who has a copy may make copies and give them away. That's what we're (or Tim) is doing by putting it at Metalab. However, the author is not required to maintain it (unless he agreed to do so in the license which he didn't). Can someone else maintain it? They could if the license said anyone could modify it. The license in these docs is exactly the same license that Tim Bynum uses for his HOWTO-INDEX (which he wrote). The paragraph on "derivative works" says that derivative works must use the same license (Tim called it a "copyright notice"). This seems to imply that permission to make derived works has been granted even though it doesn't state this explicitly. The author can always modify his own work and put it under another license. Anyway, I plead with Vladimir Vuksan to reconsider. I've suffered delays in the past up to 2 months but recently my stuff got to Metalab in only a few days. David Lawyer -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id LAA20475 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:25:02 +1000 Received: (qmail 9407 invoked by uid 38); 29 Sep 1999 01:24:50 -0000 Resent-Date: 29 Sep 1999 01:24:50 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: djb@redhat.com Message-Id: <199909290124.VAA02922@chef.meridian.redhat.com> To: Guylhem Aznar cc: Terry Dawson , ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd) In-reply-to: <19990928112021.B1019@victis.oeil.qc.ca> from Guylhem Aznar on Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:20:21 +0200. Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 21:24:27 -0400 From: Donnie Barnes Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/651 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org >> It will be arbitrary because there is no formal voting mechanism in place >> for the LDP to make it anything else. The terms would be arbitrarily >> decided by whoever drafts the rules. > >So let's vote : > >Who agrees with Joshua idea (2 month/30 days/60 days, i.e. letting some >copyright to the LDP to ensure future updates) ? > >Who disagrees and think all copyrights should be kept by each author ? My vote is with the author. --Donnie -- Donnie Barnes http://www.redhat.com/~djb djb@redhat.com "Bah." Challenge Diversity. Ignore People. Live Life. Use Linux. 879. My Dad used to say I have deceptive quickness. I'm slower than I look. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:38 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from lacrosse.corp.redhat.com (IDENT:root@[207.175.42.154]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id LAA20480 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:25:25 +1000 Received: from chef.meridian.redhat.com (IDENT:root@chef.meridian.redhat.com [207.175.42.11]) by lacrosse.corp.redhat.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA21212; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 21:24:45 -0400 Received: from redhat.com (IDENT:djb@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chef.meridian.redhat.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA02922; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 21:24:27 -0400 Message-Id: <199909290124.VAA02922@chef.meridian.redhat.com> To: Guylhem Aznar cc: Terry Dawson , ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd) In-reply-to: <19990928112021.B1019@victis.oeil.qc.ca> from Guylhem Aznar on Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:20:21 +0200. Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 21:24:27 -0400 From: Donnie Barnes >> It will be arbitrary because there is no formal voting mechanism in place >> for the LDP to make it anything else. The terms would be arbitrarily >> decided by whoever drafts the rules. > >So let's vote : > >Who agrees with Joshua idea (2 month/30 days/60 days, i.e. letting some >copyright to the LDP to ensure future updates) ? > >Who disagrees and think all copyrights should be kept by each author ? My vote is with the author. --Donnie -- Donnie Barnes http://www.redhat.com/~djb djb@redhat.com "Bah." Challenge Diversity. Ignore People. Live Life. Use Linux. 879. My Dad used to say I have deceptive quickness. I'm slower than I look. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from mailserv.caiw.nl (mailserv.caiw.nl [194.178.9.133]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id QAA21898 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:12:54 +1000 From: Hugo.van.der.Kooij@caiw.nl Received: (from root@localhost) by mailserv.caiw.nl (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA12435; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 08:12:43 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from k3nw150.dial.kabelfoon.nl(195.193.24.150), claiming to be "bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org" via SMTP by mailserv.caiw.nl, id smtpdAAAa12427; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 08:12:38 +0200 Received: from bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org (bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org [192.168.100.254]) by bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA07755; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 08:12:35 +0200 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 08:12:34 +0200 (CEST) X-Sender: hvdkooij@bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org To: Guylhem Aznar cc: Terry Dawson , ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd) In-Reply-To: <19990928112021.B1019@victis.oeil.qc.ca> Message-ID: X-URL: http://www.caiw.nl/~hvdkooij/ X-Loop: Hugo.van.der.Kooij@caiw.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 28 Sep 1999, Guylhem Aznar wrote: > On Tue, Sep 28, 1999 at 10:57:14AM +1000, Terry Dawson wrote: > > It will be arbitrary because there is no formal voting mechanism in place > > for the LDP to make it anything else. The terms would be arbitrarily > > decided by whoever drafts the rules. > > So let's vote : > > Who agrees with Joshua idea (2 month/30 days/60 days, i.e. letting some > copyright to the LDP to ensure future updates) ? > > Who disagrees and think all copyrights should be kept by each author ? > > There will not be any arbitrar decision. Copyright remains with the author (which is also in line with international rules regarding copyright.) Hugo. -- Hugo van der Kooij; Oranje Nassaustraat 16; 3155 VJ Maasland hvdkooij@caiw.nl http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~hvdkooij/ -------------------------------------------------------------- Use of any of my email addresses for unsollicited (commercial) email is a clear intrusion of my privacy and illegal! From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id HAA26517 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 07:10:15 +1000 Received: (qmail 19547 invoked by uid 38); 29 Sep 1999 21:10:03 -0000 Resent-Date: 29 Sep 1999 21:10:02 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: poet@linuxports.com Message-Id: <199909292106.OAA31206@crazypenguins.commandprompt.com> From: "{poet}" Organization: CommandPrompt Software To: Guylhem Aznar Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:50:32 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: QC volunteers? (Was: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd)) Reply-to: poet@linuxports.com CC: LDP discuss Priority: normal In-reply-to: <19990927115120.B1132@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: <19990927095101.A6047@albert.animats.net>; from Terry Dawson on Mon, Sep 27, 1999 at 09:51:01AM +1000 X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/681 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org I would be happy to post it to the site... but I don't have a copy Date forwarded: 27 Sep 1999 19:06:43 -0000 Date sent: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:51:20 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: Terry Dawson Copies to: LDP discuss Subject: Re: QC volunteers? (Was: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd)) Forwarded by: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org > On Mon, Sep 27, 1999 at 09:51:01AM +1000, Terry Dawson wrote: > > ... and then what? mutter comments into the winds? > > You'd better send them to ldp-submit and Cc the author :-) > > > Is there some document, that even briefly, describes the role and function > > of the QC, what actions they should take, and how they should take them? > > It has been posted by Alessandro Rubini some weeks ago, clearly > explaining the goals and the functions of the members. > (BTW, could it be added to our site ?) > > > As an author I'm not interested in submitting a document for QC and having > > ten responses telling me the same things. I'd like a single coordinated > > response please. Otherwise I might just as well use the community at large > > for QC as I always have. > > As a 'trusted' author (this is not your first time) I doubt anyone will > reread your document, but you can request it if you want more immediate > feedback. > > -- > Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org > Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem > Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca > Save East Timor: http://altern.org/spoirier/timor.html http://www.pst-timor.org > LinuxPorts - http://www.linuxports.com LDP - http://www.linuxdoc.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id HAA26723 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 07:48:52 +1000 Received: (qmail 19443 invoked by uid 38); 29 Sep 1999 21:48:43 -0000 Resent-Date: 29 Sep 1999 21:48:43 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: jim@jimpick.com Sender: jim@pepper.jimpick.com To: Guylhem Aznar Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Updating Internic info for linuxdoc.org References: <87yae06em5.fsf@pepper.jimpick.com> X-Url: http://www.jimpick.com/ From: Jim Pick Date: 29 Sep 1999 14:48:27 -0700 In-Reply-To: Jim Pick's message of "20 Sep 1999 22:02:58 -0700" Message-ID: <871zbhpexg.fsf@pepper.jimpick.com> Lines: 285 User-Agent: Gnus/5.070095 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.95) XEmacs/20.4 (Emerald) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <30BFPB.A.qvE.7ko83@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/683 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Guylhem, Could you send me your contact info so I could finish this task off? Cheers, - Jim Jim Pick writes: > Hi Guylhem, > > (I've cc:'d to the ldp-discuss list and Lars so that everything is > out in the open) > > Since you are the new leader of the LDP, we should update the > authoritative contact record for the linuxdoc.org domain so that it > lists you, and not Lars. > > If you could fill out the blank lines on the form (marked "X"), I can > send the form into hostmaster@internic.net to make the changes. (or > you can send the form in yourself) > > I've also added on a new nameserver (cosmos.jimpick.com) for some > additional redundancy. > > Cheers, > > - Jim > > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > This is the Domain Name Registration Agreement you > recently created. > In order to complete this modification, > > YOU MUST E-MAIL THIS FORM TO: hostmaster@internic.net > > After you e-mail this form, you should receive an auto-reply > with a tracking number. You must use that number in the > Subject of any future messages you send regarding > this registration action. > Once this registration action is completed you will receive > a notification via e-mail. > > [ URL http://www.networksolutions.com/cgi-bin/domain ] [ 03/98 ] > [ URL ftp://rs.internic.net/templates/domain-template.txt ] [ 03/98 ] > > ******* Please DO NOT REMOVE Version Number or Sections A-Q ******** > > Domain Version Number: 4.0 > > ******* Email completed agreement to hostmaster@internic.net ******* > > NETWORK SOLUTIONS, INC. > > DOMAIN NAME REGISTRATION AGREEMENT > > > A. Introduction. This domain name registration agreement > ("Registration Agreement") is submitted to NETWORK SOLUTIONS, INC. > ("NSI") for the purpose of applying for and registering a domain name > on the Internet. If this Registration Agreement is accepted by NSI, > and a domain name is registered in NSI's domain name database and > assigned to the Registrant, Registrant ("Registrant") agrees to be > bound by the terms of this Registration Agreement and the terms of > NSI's Domain Name Dispute Policy ("Dispute Policy") which is > incorporated herein by reference and made a part of this Registration > Agreement. This Registration Agreement shall be accepted at the > offices of NSI. > > B. Fees and Payments. > > 1) Registration or renewal (re-registration) date through March 31, 1998: > Registrant agrees to pay a registration fee of One Hundred United States > Dollars (US) as consideration for the registration of each new domain > name or Fifty United States Dollars (US) to renew (re-register) an > existing registration. > 2) Registration or renewal date on and after April 1, 1998: Registrant > agrees to pay a registration fee of Seventy United States Dollars (US) > as consideration for the registration of each new domain name or the > applicable renewal (re-registration) fee (currently Thirty-Five United > States Dollars (US)) at the time of renewal (re-registration). > 3) Period of Service: The non-refundable fee covers a period of two (2) > years for each new registration, and one (1) year for each renewal, > and includes any permitted modification(s) to the domain name record > during the covered period. > 4) Payment: Payment is due to Network Solutions within thirty (30) > days from the date of the invoice. > > C. Dispute Policy. Registrant agrees, as a condition to > submitting this Registration Agreement, and if the Registration > Agreement is accepted by NSI, that the Registrant shall be bound by > NSI's current Dispute Policy. The current version of the Dispute > Policy may be found at the InterNIC Registration Services web site: > "http://www.netsol.com/rs/dispute-policy.html". > > D. Dispute Policy Changes or Modifications. Registrant agrees > that NSI, in its sole discretion, may change or modify the Dispute > Policy, incorporated by reference herein, at any time. Registrant > agrees that Registrant's maintaining the registration of a domain name > after changes or modifications to the Dispute Policy become effective > constitutes Registrant's continued acceptance of these changes or > modifications. Registrant agrees that if Registrant considers any such > changes or modifications to be unacceptable, Registrant may request > that the domain name be deleted from the domain name database. > > E. Disputes. Registrant agrees that, if the registration of its > domain name is challenged by any third party, the Registrant will be > subject to the provisions specified in the Dispute Policy. > > F. Agents. Registrant agrees that if this Registration Agreement > is completed by an agent for the Registrant, such as an ISP or > Administrative Contact/Agent, the Registrant is nonetheless bound as a > principal by all terms and conditions herein, including the Dispute > Policy. > > G. Limitation of Liability. Registrant agrees that NSI shall have > no liability to the Registrant for any loss Registrant may incur in > connection with NSI's processing of this Registration Agreement, in > connection with NSI's processing of any authorized modification to the > domain name's record during the covered period, as a result of the > Registrant's ISP's failure to pay either the initial registration fee > or renewal fee, or as a result of the application of the provisions of > the Dispute Policy. Registrant agrees that in no event shall the > maximum liability of NSI under this Agreement for any matter exceed > Five Hundred United States Dollars (US). > > H. Indemnity. Registrant agrees, in the event the Registration > Agreement is accepted by NSI and a subsequent dispute arises with any > third party, to indemnify and hold NSI harmless pursuant to the terms > and conditions contained in the Dispute Policy. > > I. Breach. Registrant agrees that failure to abide by any > provision of this Registration Agreement or the Dispute Policy may be > considered by NSI to be a material breach and that NSI may provide a > written notice, describing the breach, to the Registrant. If, within > thirty (30) days of the date of mailing such notice, the Registrant > fails to provide evidence, which is reasonably satisfactory to NSI, > that it has not breached its obligations, then NSI may delete > Registrant's registration of the domain name. Any such breach by a > Registrant shall not be deemed to be excused simply because NSI did > not act earlier in response to that, or any other, breach by the > Registrant. > > J. No Guaranty. Registrant agrees that, by registration of a > domain name, such registration does not confer immunity from objection > to either the registration or use of the domain name. > > K. Warranty. Registrant warrants by submitting this Registration > Agreement that, to the best of Registrant's knowledge and belief, the > information submitted herein is true and correct, and that any future > changes to this information will be provided to NSI in a timely manner > according to the domain name modification procedures in place at that > time. Breach of this warranty will constitute a material breach. > > L. Revocation. Registrant agrees that NSI may delete a > Registrant's domain name if this Registration Agreement, or subsequent > modification(s) thereto, contains false or misleading information, or > conceals or omits any information NSI would likely consider material > to its decision to approve this Registration Agreement. > > M. Right of Refusal. NSI, in its sole discretion, reserves the > right to refuse to approve the Registration Agreement for any > Registrant. Registrant agrees that the submission of this Registration > Agreement does not obligate NSI to accept this Registration Agreement. > Registrant agrees that NSI shall not be liable for loss or damages > that may result from NSI's refusal to accept this Registration > Agreement. > > N. Severability. Registrant agrees that the terms of this > Registration Agreement are severable. If any term or provision is > declared invalid, it shall not affect the remaining terms or > provisions which shall continue to be binding. > > O. Entirety. Registrant agrees that this Registration Agreement > and the Dispute Policy is the complete and exclusive agreement between > Registrant and NSI regarding the registration of Registrant's domain > name. This Registration Agreement and the Dispute Policy supersede all > prior agreements and understandings, whether established by custom, > practice, policy, or precedent. > > P. Governing Law. Registrant agrees that this Registration > Agreement shall be governed in all respects by and construed in > accordance with the laws of the Commonwealth of Virginia, United > States of America. By submitting this Registration Agreement, > Registrant consents to the exclusive jurisdiction and venue of the > United States District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia, > Alexandria Division. If there is no jurisdiction in the United States > District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia, Alexandria > Division, then jurisdiction shall be in the Circuit Court of Fairfax > County, Fairfax, Virginia. > > Q. This is Domain Name Registration Agreement Version > Number 4.0. This Registration Agreement is only for registrations > under top-level domains: COM, ORG, NET, and EDU. By completing > and submitting this Registration Agreement for consideration and > acceptance by NSI, the Registrant agrees that he/she has read and > agrees to be bound by A through P above. > > Authorization > 0a. (N)ew (M)odify (D)elete.........: M Name Registration > 0b. Auth Scheme.....................: MAIL-FROM > 0c. Auth Info.......................: > > 1. Comments........................: > > 2. Complete Domain Name............: linuxdoc.org > > Organization Using Domain Name > 3a. Organization Name................: Linux Documentation Project > 3b. Street Address..................: X > 3c. City............................: X > 3d. State...........................: PQ > 3e. Postal Code.....................: X > 3f. Country.........................: CA > > Administrative Contact > 4a. NIC Handle (if known)...........: > 4b. (I)ndividual (R)ole?............: Individual > 4c. Name (Last, First)..............: Guylhem Aznar > 4d. Organization Name...............: Linux Documentation Project > 4e. Street Address..................: X > 4f. City............................: X > 4g. State...........................: PQ > 4h. Postal Code.....................: X > 4i. Country.........................: CA > 4j. Phone Number....................: X > 4k. Fax Number......................: X > 4l. E-Mailbox.......................: guylhem@oeil.qc.ca > > Technical Contact > 5a. NIC Handle (if known)...........: JP1946 > 5b. (I)ndividual (R)ole?............: Individual > 5c. Name(Last, First)...............: > 5d. Organization Name...............: > 5e. Street Address..................: > 5f. City............................: > 5g. State...........................: > 5h. Postal Code.....................: > 5i. Country.........................: > 5j. Phone Number....................: > 5k. Fax Number......................: > 5l. E-Mailbox.......................: > > Billing Contact > 6a. NIC Handle (if known)...........: JP1946 > 6b. (I)ndividual (R)ole?............: Individual > 6c. Name (Last, First)..............: > 6d. Organization Name...............: > 6e. Street Address..................: > 6f. City............................: > 6g. State...........................: > 6h. Postal Code.....................: > 6i. Country.........................: > 6j. Phone Number....................: > 6k. Fax Number......................: > 6l. E-Mailbox.......................: > > Prime Name Server > 7a. Primary Server Hostname.........: TIA.JIMPICK.COM > 7b. Primary Server Netaddress.......: 204.209.212.111 > > Secondary Name Server(s) > 8a. Secondary Server Hostname.......: CA.MOBILEDNS.NET > 8b. Secondary Server Netaddress.....: 24.112.120.187 > 8a. Secondary Server Hostname..: cosmos.jimpick.com > 8b. Secondary Server Netaddress: 139.142.87.223 > > > END OF AGREEMENT > > > For instructions, please refer to: > "http://www.networksolutions.com/help/changes/inst_mod.html" > > > > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id SAA29873 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:24:11 +1000 Received: (qmail 11701 invoked by uid 38); 30 Sep 1999 08:23:45 -0000 Resent-Date: 30 Sep 1999 08:23:45 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: bf347@lafn.org Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 01:23:27 -0700 Message-Id: <199909300823.AA18534@lafn.org> From: bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer) To: guylhem@oeil.qc.ca Subject: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd) Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Reply-To: bf347@lafn.org Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/687 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Guyhlem Aznar wrote: >So let's vote : > >Who agrees with Joshua idea (2 month/30 days/60 days, i.e. letting some >copyright to the LDP to ensure future updates) ? > >Who disagrees and think all copyrights should be kept by each author ? I vote to let the authors keep their copyrights since you can't take it away from them unless they have agreed to that condition in advance. Also, I don't think that the LDP should incorportate as a formal organization since it would require a lot of planning in order to avoid the dangers of a hostile takeover. If the LDP owns a lot of copyrights it would be a lucrative target for such a takeover. Most authors don't participate and just a handful of renegade authors (of short howtos ?) might take over the organization and get ownership of its copyrights. While it probably wouldn't happen, it could. There are lots of such hostile takeovers, many that never are covered in the news. David Lawyer -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id XAA32699 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 23:22:28 +1000 Received: (qmail 29519 invoked by uid 38); 7 Sep 1999 13:18:07 -0000 Resent-Date: 7 Sep 1999 13:18:07 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: psj@mustec.eu.org Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 14:12:48 +0100 (GMT) From: P Jenner To: David Lawyer cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: HOWTOs: QC, contents, & minis In-Reply-To: <199909070116.AA20189@lafn.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/348 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org On Mon, 6 Sep 1999, David Lawyer wrote: > Feedback needs to go directly to the author/maintainer. But one may > state in the howto what type of questions one will/will not answer. One of the advantages of having an Open Source style licencing for LDP docs is that anyone may modify and distribute them. Obviously document forks are to be avoided but if the community sees an improvement to a doc in the open then it will adopt it. This should work well where authors/maintainers are active as good patches to their doc will most probably be accepted and integrated. However how is this community improvement to work in cases in which the author/maintainer does not wish to be contacted and will not accept such patches? Paul ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul S Jenner GNU/Linux Advocate E-mail: psj@mustec.eu.org WWW: http://www.mustec.eu.org/~psj/ UNSOLICITED COMMERCIAL E-MAIL IS NOT WELCOME AT THIS ADDRESS ----------------------------------------------------------------------- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id UAA14109 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 20:53:16 +1000 Received: (qmail 7376 invoked by uid 38); 17 Sep 1999 10:52:16 -0000 Resent-Date: 17 Sep 1999 10:52:16 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: guylhem@terram.oeil.qc.ca Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:40:18 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: David Lawyer Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Translations (to English?) Message-ID: <19990917104018.A1029@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: <199909170604.AA09311@lafn.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=jRHKVT23PllUwdXP; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <199909170604.AA09311@lafn.org>; from David Lawyer on Thu, Sep 16, 1999 at 11:04:20PM -0700 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/470 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org --jRHKVT23PllUwdXP Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Sep 16, 1999 at 11:04:20PM -0700, David Lawyer wrote: > As the author of Modem-HOWTO, I've been aware of (and have a copy of) the= =20 > French howto. While it may be better written (I can't read it) it is=20 > obsolete since it doesn't cover the current issues of Winmodems,=20 > Plug-and-Play, and PCI. It also is broader than my howto and covers all= =20 > types of modems, but we have mini-howtos on DSL and Cable modems in Engli= sh. Could you include them in the mini HOWTO ? > Someone did start to translate and/or merge the howtos but it never=20 > worked out (I was too busy to learn French, etc.) I can send you a translation if you need it. > working on merging it. While it's not a good example to use for=20 > documents that need translating to English today, I'll agree that it shou= ld=20 > have been translated 3 years ago. You're right, it's not a good example now, but there're certainly more HOWTOs like this one in local LDPs. Since we don't speak all these languages, we depend on feedback given by members of the local LDPs. --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Save East Timor: http://altern.org/spoirier/timor.html http://www.pst-timor= .org --jRHKVT23PllUwdXP Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN+H+ct+QeWug/qfFAQHhSwP/YC9no82s9m+kFnR5Lu7l55La3QYJJgOr hKxofeQcRsg0K5idCUwg8BSppqTYThSBFs02r8TOstfBRpway+c2fC5G94Wbl0GL iNDsGcpcnqva2GAJ3YqKMTweXdJVt2ohs5G9E4q6LVSqxTNe1VxiFMkUsm4m5m2T WI8nJyhy9pM= =oHO6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --jRHKVT23PllUwdXP-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id RAA08416 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 17:47:34 +1000 Received: (qmail 22583 invoked by uid 38); 27 Sep 1999 07:46:54 -0000 Resent-Date: 27 Sep 1999 07:46:54 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: poet@linuxports.com Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 00:56:08 -0700 (PDT) From: "Mr. Poet" X-Sender: jd@crazypenguins.commandprompt.com To: David Lawyer cc: poet@linuxports.com, ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Comments on web site. In-Reply-To: <199909270628.AA03063@lafn.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/601 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Hello, Hmm... This will present a problem, the site is currently coded to work in all browsers but lynx does pose certain issues. I will see what I can do. Poet LinuxPorts - http://www.linuxports.com LDP - http://www.linuxdoc.org On Sun, 26 Sep 1999, David Lawyer wrote: > > > Poet wrote: > > > >In regards to the Core Team statement, although there are a few out there > >that could truly care less about who the "team" is. I can honestly say > >that since we have placed the members in a very visible place people have > >been actually been becoming positive about the project. > > Most of the people who come to the site are looking for info. On my lynx > browser on a small screen, the core team takes up most of the first > screen. It's OK to have them on the first screen but they should not come > first. They need to be compactly arranged. The old site had a few links > on a single line with everything single spaced. Now it's only a couple > of words per line with double spacing. Thus I think that links to the > HOWTOs should come first on the page (after a modest LDP title). And > they should be more compactly arranged to accomodate large print on small > screens (like my text-terminal). > > David Lawyer > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id XAA10016 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 23:27:58 +1000 Received: (qmail 20866 invoked by uid 38); 27 Sep 1999 13:27:48 -0000 Resent-Date: 27 Sep 1999 13:27:48 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: gferg@hoop.timonium.sgi.com From: "Greg Ferguson" Message-Id: <9909270933.ZM13057@hoop.timonium.sgi.com> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:33:50 -0400 In-Reply-To: bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer) "Re: Comments on web site." (Sep 26, 11:28pm) References: <199909270628.AA03063@lafn.org> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: bf347@lafn.org, poet@linuxports.com, ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: Comments on web site. Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/604 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org On Sep 26, 11:28pm, David Lawyer wrote: > Subject: Re: Comments on web site. > > Most of the people who come to the site are looking for info. > On my lynx browser on a small screen, the core team takes up > most of the first screen. Agreed. We need to fix this. Info about the core team needs to be shoved to the bottom. ---- Ferg -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id FAA11625 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 05:21:39 +1000 Received: (qmail 27682 invoked by uid 38); 27 Sep 1999 19:05:47 -0000 Resent-Date: 27 Sep 1999 19:05:47 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: guylhem@terram.oeil.qc.ca Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:34:56 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: David Lawyer Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: QC volunteers? (Was: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd)) Message-ID: <19990927113456.C1052@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: <199909270603.AA01352@lafn.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=JWEK1jqKZ6MHAcjA; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <199909270603.AA01352@lafn.org>; from David Lawyer on Sun, Sep 26, 1999 at 11:03:26PM -0700 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/612 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org --JWEK1jqKZ6MHAcjA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Sep 26, 1999 at 11:03:26PM -0700, David Lawyer wrote: > I think that waiting one week is way too long for a small revision to a > HOWTO. You should have a password/signature system and put them onsite= =20 > immediately. The only docs that should be held for QC are first-time=20 > submissions or when a new maintainer first takes over a doc and=20 > makes significant changes. Other docs should undergo QC when they are=20 Agreed. > It should be pointed out that "incoming" means to be posted to the LDP=20 > and mirror sites. (on the ftp only ; I didn't find any incoming section on the web site) > There should also be another 'incoming' section for docs waiting for > QC.=20 Ok, what about "coming soon" ? --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Save East Timor: http://altern.org/spoirier/timor.html http://www.pst-timor= .org --JWEK1jqKZ6MHAcjA Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN+86QN+QeWug/qfFAQHQyAP+JSRMqo+tKHZpF5L5+qaJvMRHHJViGzER GGdln+bzZttWk4Ar8ALEGwVTgdfEtQ3GmFu3FcT2HGWj6BLvzDY727MWbMu3ZqsG Vl92kfrgZ/pUWaNsfCXLw7ePTMwtMGJTiev0wjGZ5tCmsJteyjMdcEB0gzgijPir aNxZFUVtlz8= =YF5F -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --JWEK1jqKZ6MHAcjA-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id XAA31375 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 23:14:12 +1000 Received: (qmail 32466 invoked by uid 38); 30 Sep 1999 13:07:06 -0000 Resent-Date: 30 Sep 1999 13:07:06 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: JKoch@mcp.com X-Internal-ID: 37EF952300035378 Message-ID: <5753A9B81DE9D211AAC6006008176ED971182F@CARMMS102> From: JKoch@mcp.com To: bf347@lafn.org Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: RE: QC volunteers? (Was: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revisi Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:06:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/694 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > -----Original Message----- > From: bf347@lafn.org [mailto:bf347@lafn.org] > Sent: Thursday, September 30, 1999 2:11 AM > To: JKoch@mcp.com > Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org > Subject: RE: QC volunteers? (Was: Re: General Positive Feedback re: > revisi > > > > > Jeff Koch wrote: > >From the LDP Manifesto page: > >"Any translation or derived work must be approved by the > author in writing > >before distribution." > > > This has been taken out of context. The previous paragraph > states: "Here > is a ``boilerplate license'' you *may* apply to your work." > Thus it only > applies to authors who have copied it into their work. Using grep, I > can't find a single HOWTO that has used it (as of a few months ago). > Thus it is not LDP policy nor does it apply to any HOWTOs > that I have on > my PC and your comments below are based on a false premise. My comments below are not based on a false premise. I used the option above to illustrate how the current licensing practices promote confusion. Just because people haven't invoked the above option yet doesn't mean that it's not available and potentially harmful to the overall goals of the LDP. My overall point was, that without enforcing a consistent license, individual pieces of the LDP may or may not be free, updatable, whatever. > > >In this case, distribution could mean electronic > distribution - which means > >the LDP wouldn't have the right to post a derived work > without the author's > >permission. Of course, since the LDP doesn't have a > consistent license, > >there's no telling which pieces of the LDP could, or > couldn't, be updated - > >unless you want to examine each piece separately. Some of > the more vocal > >people on this list have the position that a consistent > license would make > >it more difficult to work with the LDP. > > > >The fact this topic of conversation is even brought up makes me think > >differently. After all, if the overall goal of the LDP is to provide > >high-quality, free information, then the ability to update > and maintain > >content easily, and without fear of legal action, is of > utmost importance. > >The LDP needs to put rules in place to ensure this happens. > If authors don't > >want to play by whatever rules the LDP comes up with, then > they should post > >their material elsewhere. > > > >Jeff Koch > > > > > >-- > >To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > >with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact > listmaster@lists.debian.org > > > > > > > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id EAA21389 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 04:09:19 +1000 Received: (qmail 21935 invoked by uid 38); 10 Sep 1999 18:09:09 -0000 Resent-Date: 10 Sep 1999 18:09:09 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: psj@mustec.eu.org Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:03:28 +0100 (GMT) From: P Jenner To: Alessandro Rubini cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: QC draft & community involvement In-Reply-To: <19990910144243.07150@morgana.systemy.it> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/364 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org I apologise I think my comments were not best phrased and came out a little strong. I believe some points remain valid however. On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, Alessandro Rubini wrote: > Ok, this is about the part that I left behind in the draft, i.e.: "why > do we need QC". I agree that we do not QC and I think we agree about the kind of QC we do need - I just ahve questions about the details so that they do not get in the way of community submission through that QC. > > whatever QC exists within the LDP organisation the best QC is the > > community. > Yes, but this needs some control. I agree with you here. The QC then becomes a community moderator effectively. > Every successfull project (I refer here to free sw/docs) has some sort > of control; be it a person or a group. Yes and the role of that person or group is usually not primarily producing but harnessing and organising the production of others. For example on the GNOME project. A central core team organises the overall development, web site etc. A larger group, not all known to the core team, has CVS write access to the GNOME source archive. These people are knoen to produce good and responsible work and are trusted to have write access after asking for it. The larger community as a whole has CVS read access and distribution access. They either bug-report via the web / e-mail or preferably submit patches to those with CVS access who include them, modify and include them or reject them as appropriate. I apologise for the length of detail in that description but I think all of it is worthy of note. The system works because there is a core team capable of harnessing energies and organising things (LDP leaders and QC people), there is a wider group of developers who can write to any part of the project but who only tend to produce good stuff as they are committed and trusted (HOWTO maintainers and regular contributors) and all others users who can make an improvement to the project have there contributions faciliated by an easy to get involved system (LDP readers). I am just worried that the QC manifesto could be read as saying simply there should be only QC and leaders who can write documents to the LDP, HOWTO maintainers are the only ones able to alter their own docs and then only via QC and that all other users must go via maintainers who may not have time or energy to facilitate their contribution. > For the LDP to be successfull we need the same kind of control: bad > contributions must be refused and mid-good stuff must be sent back to > the author for making it better. I agree with the upshot. What I believe may be more profitable top learn from the Open Source movement is that bad contributions should be rejected with a clear explanation why and mid-good stuff should be worked on by those able to (QC and contributors) to make it good. > We just can't allow a crowd of newcomers to flood the LDP with > low-quality material, as it will just lower the social role of the LDP > as a whole. I agree. However if their contributions are simply rejected off-hand or not facilitated then any good stuff they may generate will be lost to the movement most probably forever. I would argue anyway that unless someone believes that something is genuinely useful and good they probably would not submit it. > Please note that *nobody* is preventing anyone in the community from > releasing other documents through other means (I also wrote this in > the draft), we just need to protect the brand of the LDP. I would have thought that this is probably not the best way forward. If doc is good then the LDP should embrace it for the community. If doc is bad then the community will ignore it and it will go unnoticed. There is good doc out there which is not part of the LDP and could be if facilitated. > Since we can't ask Tim nor Guy to check every document that they get, > we need to set up a group of people to split the workload. I agree strongly and I think we agree that this is the reason for the QC. > > Therefore community additions and modifications should > > be given as much weight and consideration as official QC ones, > I'm sorry, I don't understand this point. As usual, additions and > modifications pass through the maintainer, unless someone wants to > fork document maintainance (which is generally considered a practice > to avoid whenever possible). I did not make myself clear - I apologise. I really meant to say that submissions for corrections to the QC or maintainer from the community are just as likely if not more likely to be valid than those generated purely by the QC or maintainer alone. I know personally than when I write anything, if I ask others they always without fail suggest improvements I would never have seen alone. The community has a great number of eyes for such a job - we would be silly not to use them. > Oh, and I forgot to state that the LDP leader should be able to revoke > a QC member with no prior notice. This is important, as one with a > good resume could be accepted in QC and then boycott things out. This is the reason why I am not totally convinced that one QC should be able to boycott things out. After all the community may want something different from a HOWTO than the QC does. For example a QC may have a strong idea that all docs should be vendor neutral but the community could be having real problems setting up PPP under Red Hat particularly. A member of the community may submit a ptach to the PPP HOWTO covering that issue - something LDP readers could really use. However the QC would reject it alone. Surely not a good thing. I hope these comments are positive and I hope you don't mind but I CC'd ldp-discuss with this one as I believe certain of my comments here are probably of discussion interest to others (if only to flame me :-). Yours, Paul ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul S Jenner GNU/Linux Advocate E-mail: psj@mustec.eu.org WWW: http://www.mustec.eu.org/~psj/ UNSOLICITED COMMERCIAL E-MAIL IS NOT WELCOME AT THIS ADDRESS ----------------------------------------------------------------------- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id TAA25597 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:00:44 +1000 Received: (qmail 18490 invoked by uid 38); 11 Sep 1999 09:00:37 -0000 Resent-Date: 11 Sep 1999 09:00:37 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: DIDICKMAN@amherst.edu Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 05:00:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Subject: Re: Kernel Hackers Guide In-reply-to: <19990911091120.52535@morgana.systemy.it> To: Alessandro Rubini Cc: "Re:Linux"@morgana.systemy.it, Kernel@morgana.systemy.it, Hacker's@morgana.systemy.it, Guide@morgana.systemy.it, ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org, didickma@james.amherst.edu Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/385 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org I'm still hard at work on the KHG, although I haven't put up any of my work yet, and I don't intend to do so until I get something usable going. I think folding the KHG back into the LDP is a great idea though, and I'd definitely be willing to do that in the future. As for a time frame... it will be done "when it's ready." But I'm expecting to have a web publishable version ready by the end of January or so... Dan On Sat, 11 Sep 1999, Alessandro Rubini wrote: > > Poet asked: > > Anybody have a copy of this? Redhat has taken it down. Thus I have taken > > it off the of the LDP website until we find a copy :) > > Ok, I didn't notice we just had a link to the RH site. Couldn't we, instead > get a local copy of the beast? It looks like it is your intention for this > specific case, but I would like it becomes a general policy... > > Tim replied: > > ftp://wallybox.cei.net/pub/Linux/khg.tar.gz > > Yes, this has the *big* advantage of being the source format, although > I think something was added later, after its move to hypernews. > > As fas as the khg is concerned, during July '99 I've been contacted by > Dan Dickson who was willing to update and maintain the Guide. I'm > quoting his ideas here below. Dan is Cc'd. > > Dan, any news about your project? What about folding it back to the LDP? > > > Just thought I'd let you know: I've started working on the khg in my spare > > time for now. I put it up at: > > > > http://www.amherst.edu/~didickma/khg/HyperNews/get/khg.html > > > > Right now I'm focusing on the following stuff, in this order: > > -- get rid of all the comments, and integrate useful suggestions and > > ideas into the khg. > > -- update the khg to match the 2.2.10 kernel > > -- edit for grammer. > > -- create a nice looking web site. > > Unfortunately, I currently see no trace of KHG material under dan's home > (and the link above is doesn't work). > > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id HAA08793 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 07:49:00 +1000 Received: (qmail 31864 invoked by uid 38); 11 Sep 1999 21:48:52 -0000 Resent-Date: 11 Sep 1999 21:48:52 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: pjones@metalab.unc.edu X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: pjones owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:48:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul Jones X-Sender: pjones@titan.oit.unc.edu To: Alessandro Rubini cc: Jonathan Magid , Efron Miles , Don Sizemore , psj@mustec.eu.org, ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Boutell's OpenFAQ software In-Reply-To: <19990910224953.23376@morgana.systemy.it> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/391 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org this is slightly off-topic, but i think on point. for very quick and easy collaboration on simple documents, tom boutell's openfaq package looks great. very little author overhead, easy to install and even fairly secure. plus the boutell code which now puts out html faq pages could be used to produce simple sgml or better xml. http://www.boutell.com/openfaq/source/ this would be a very low tech QC implementation for fast response documents. authors all do the QC and the work is immediately available. ========================================================================== Paul Jones "We must protect our precious bodily fluids!" General Jack D Ripper http://MetaLab.unc.edu/pjones/ at the Site Formerly Known As SunSITE.unc.edu pjones@MetaLab.unc.edu voice: (919) 962-7600 fax: (919) 962-8071 =========================================================================== -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id DAA09192 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 03:57:38 +1000 Received: (qmail 11052 invoked by uid 38); 19 Sep 1999 17:52:21 -0000 Resent-Date: 19 Sep 1999 17:52:21 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: garym@maya.dyndns.org Sender: garym@mail.wccweb.com To: Alessandro Rubini Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: [off topic] Re: Licensing issues References: <19990918174029.27358@morgana.systemy.it> From: Gary Lawrence Murphy Date: 19 Sep 1999 13:49:11 -0400 Message-ID: Reply-To: Gary Lawrence Murphy Organization: TeleDynamics --- the Art of Being There X-Url: http://www.teledyn.com/ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/503 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Alessandro raises very good points on the freedom of documents, and at the start I should explain that I consult to a publisher but do not work for them; I do what I do for Macmillan primarily out of my own agenda for world domination. It's my agenda, not theirs, and I am dragging them, kicking and screaming, to see things my way. >>>>> "A" == Alessandro Rubini writes: A> And I, as an author, want to block "proprietarization" of my A> free documents and derived ones. The GPL is a viable mean, A> although not the perfect license for this task. This is also the concern of publishers. If a document is offered for free, they do not (did not) like finding a competitor snarfing the document and getting it to press in direct competition --- armed with a "prior-art" clause! A> A free book must be freely reprinted. It's like the software A> issue: we don't want to reinvent or rewrite everything, we want A> to be able to build on the existent. A very good point, but we need to consider that GPL software is now 15 years mature, whereas OPL documents have not yet seen the printers ink. It is like those companies (MySQL for example, Sun for another) who have been giving out free binaries and now toy with the opensource model, trying not to risk too much in their first baby steps. I believe they will find their OPL books will outsell the non-OPL on principle alone, but the real value to them will not appear until their books are the product of peer review and revision, exactly as now happens in software. Before we get there, publishers must have a model for constructing modular books (ie XML), a model for distributing incremental updates (OPL and just-in-time printing) and, the area which is my main interest, a model for iterative incremental revisions (eg monetary incentives for revisions); the model of the author-superstar must fall to the model of the endless-contributors as we see in the Linux Contrib file. I humbly offer that the notion of "anyone may modify" is ever so slightly misunderstood. If a doc is OPL, a teacher can modify it, edit it, annotate it, and distribute it freely with very little fear of reprisal, but they cannot slap a cover on it and ship it to Barnes and Noble under their brand name. Let's be honest: The same is true of all 'official' Linux distributions. You or I cannot make a contribution to Linux. It is closed. Shut tight. We are banned from making contributions. We can modify our local copy, but only Linus and the inner circle can actually change the official kernel --- all we mere mortals can do is recommend changes and offer patches. This model works very well and is emulated in most GPL and BSD projects, so let's not fool ourselves into thinking that the same restriction on a doc is somehow less free. This is why we have the issue of contacting the original doc maintainer. It is also true that we can create a derived Linux, which is what RedHat and others do when they apply their own patches and ship under their own brand name, but we cannot change any of those other derived Linux proucts, we can only derive our own. Further, OpenLinux, RH, Turbo and the others are all derived works, but they are often not compatible with tux.org Linux; not even the mainstream distros can modify official linux. The publishers want elements of this: They want to ensure any changes to their 'official' edition are submitted to them as patches and recommendations, and my plan for their process is to also let them commission 'official' incremental revisions. This is not just a clash of cultures, but a clash of media: Software is distributed *only* electronically, so there is no issue of the *physical* edition. The OPL matches everything you can say about software; Option B only restricts the tactile artifact called 'book', and this has no parallel in software. A> ... time. If a publisher denies printing for 2 or A> 3 years I think it is an acceptable trade off Only if we use the traditional model of a book as a single ISBN with an edition number. It would work today, but if I get my way, it won't work tomorrow. I want to see never-ending books, where the next shipment to Barnes and Noble contains all the latest patches. The book never goes out of print; readers always get the very latest edition. I am, of course, talking about a complete rewrite of the publishing business model but it would not be my first tilt at a windmill ;) If - or rather *when* books are produced on-demand with constant incremental updates (which is how Sun produces all their docs), the publisher will need to ensure their ownership of the printed edition until they wrap their heads around a business model where the quality of their imprint and their presentation are their distinguishing (and copyright-able) features, they will need to see themselves as transport and marketing mechanisms rather than as the content source; this is how RedHat and Caldera carve their niche --- we are a long, long way from publishers seeing their world this way. Keep in mind that I can create an LSL-like RedHat distro, but if I were to copy the package, CD cover and printed materials wrapping Red Hat 6.0 and put it on the shelf of a local bookstore, I expect I would hear from Bob Young's lawyers. A> ... The LDP distributes the free document and you print your A> extended-enhanced-whatever version as proprietary. This is the model being used by Coriolis, and I think it is wrong. It encourages authors to leave the juicy parts out of the free edition and save them for the paid gig. LDP gets to be the poor relation, waiting on hand-outs, having only what is necessary and is left unrevised and unmaintained while the publisher's deluxe (ie correct, current and complete) edition rises to #185 on the Amazon sales list. Who wins here? I see the LDP becoming the library of definitive docs, and I want to see the publishers fund the LDP because it provides their raw material; like the RedHats and Calderas, the publishers are simply the means to get publically-created LDP material into the public hands and the books themselves are largely self-directing creatures. For the near term, though, and I am open to any alternative plans, the only path I see to that world is to let publishers 'adopt' specific documents, and the only consession we need grant them is ownership of the commercial imprints --- a rule which is actually only included to protect each publisher from their own collegues. -- Gary Lawrence Murphy TeleDynamics Communications Inc Business Telecom Services : Internet Consulting : http://www.teledyn.com Linux Writers Workshop Archive: http://www.egroups.com/group/linux-hack/ "You don't play what you know; you play what you hear." -- (Miles Davis) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id BAA15346 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 01:39:24 +1000 Received: (qmail 27673 invoked by uid 38); 20 Sep 1999 15:39:17 -0000 Resent-Date: 20 Sep 1999 15:39:17 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: djb@redhat.com Message-Id: <199909201538.LAA01550@chef.meridian.redhat.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 To: Alessandro Rubini cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Licensing issues In-reply-to: <19990918174029.27358@morgana.systemy.it> from Alessandro Rubini on Sat, 18 Sep 1999 17:40:29 +0200. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:38:58 -0400 From: Donnie Barnes Resent-Message-ID: <_Qc0OB.A.LwG.lUl53@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/514 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > > The problem with NOT contacting the author directly is that changing the > > document without the authors permission is often copyright infringement. > > That's one reason why we need that all LDP documents are absolutely > free. The documents must allow modifications (with the usual > disclaimers of non-endorsing etc, and maybe with an exception about > non-techinal parts, but this is controversial, as already noted on > this list -- or was it the older one?). >From your own paragraph above you note that there are reasons to *not* allow modification to a document (or at least part of it) yet you still assert that all docs should be freely modifiable. This is silly. Folks, look. This has been beaten to death here and on many other mailing lists. Documentation is not software. Sure, in some cases it is *like* software when folks are collaborating to work on it. Most of the time that is *not* the case, however. Where it is the case, folks can certainly license their docs so that they are modifiable if they wish. But I assert there are plenty of valid reasons that people may *not* want their document modified, and there is NO REASON that the LDP should enforce that LDP docs be modifiable. The current manifesto outlines that they must be redistributable, and I think this is the only reasonable real restriction we need to place on the LDP authors. I don't care to go into the debate on why we need to avoid this *again*. Suffice it to say that documentation IS NOT software. Leave people the ability to choose and let the LDP have the most useful documentation it can reasonably have. --Donnie -- Donnie Barnes http://www.donniebarnes.com djb@donniebarnes.com "Bah." Challenge Diversity. Ignore People. Live Life. Use Linux. 879. V. Bats, when dipped in batter and deep fried, still taste pretty bad. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id HAA12252 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 07:04:18 +1000 Received: (qmail 1090 invoked by uid 38); 27 Sep 1999 21:01:21 -0000 Resent-Date: 27 Sep 1999 21:01:21 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: guylhem@terram.oeil.qc.ca Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:09:34 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: Alessandro Rubini Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Banner Ads? Banner Ads? Message-ID: <19990927220934.A3781@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: <19990927144541.00621@morgana.systemy.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=jRHKVT23PllUwdXP; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <19990927144541.00621@morgana.systemy.it>; from Alessandro Rubini on Mon, Sep 27, 1999 at 02:45:41PM +0200 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/620 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org --jRHKVT23PllUwdXP Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Sep 27, 1999 at 02:45:41PM +0200, Alessandro Rubini wrote: > I agree. While I agree we must offer sth for the prize we get, the > current setup is definitely bad -- a monitor deserves much less, and > in any case we should never offer such a front position to any > sponsor. Agreed. I think we shouldn't do this again. --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Save East Timor: http://altern.org/spoirier/timor.html http://www.pst-timor= .org --jRHKVT23PllUwdXP Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN+/O/d+QeWug/qfFAQHBogQAmhK7gtQKy2WR/em02oU0eADyXkAhepyq MjI228Eh4XzbMiLffcnA6VvTUZI0yCz7d87o8XOP+4OOk/YzFiaQKfplEqNY69V1 R3pOBGv77uOvaGK37xVsPeRyd9aZ0WbbIGxoIc/soytphoAobg4eZqxrtnAnECP/ X7VgzeuNksU= =CJ68 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --jRHKVT23PllUwdXP-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id DAA11224 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 03:58:39 +1000 Received: (qmail 6148 invoked by uid 38); 27 Sep 1999 17:58:31 -0000 Resent-Date: 27 Sep 1999 17:58:31 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: poet@linuxports.com Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:08:02 -0700 (PDT) From: "Mr. Poet" X-Sender: jd@crazypenguins.commandprompt.com To: Donnie Barnes cc: Guylhem Aznar , "Mr. Poet" , Vladimir Vuksan , ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199909271752.NAA03210@chef.meridian.redhat.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <9Vf-0D.A.8fB.HB773@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/610 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Hello, I do not think that we are looking for a single license. My understanding is that we are looking for a set of criteria that the license must meet. For example I do know that the: GPL DGPL(When officially released) OPL and the current LDP all work. Personally I don't care what license you use, I just think that if you drop maintainership of a document that we (THE LDP) have the right to change the license. The copyright info stays, but the license itself can change. Poet LinuxPorts - http://www.linuxports.com LDP - http://www.linuxdoc.org On Mon, 27 Sep 1999, Donnie Barnes wrote: > > > > We are also working on producing an online disccusion area plus licensing > > > issues. > > > > A new LDP manifesto with a license guide will be written. > > I suppose we should identify problems with the current manifesto before > re-writing it. Some here have problems with it, others (like myself) > like the current one. I guess the new leader wins? I personally > don't care for that structure. > > I still feel that any license that conforms to the current manifesto > is fine for the LDP. If you require a single license *or* require > that the license allow document modification by third parties, I will > no longer consider contributing LDP documentation. (No, I haven't > done much lately, but I certainly wouldn't consider doing more in the > future, either.) > > We've had these arguments a gazillion times. The LDP was originally > setup more as a set of tools for writing documentation as well as an > archive for the things that were produced. That allowed the LDP to > enjoy great success in having *the* largest volume of works collected > in one place that were *freely redistributable*. Your changes will > move the LDP more into the realm of a tightly controlled project with > a much more narrow agenda and likely less works available for consumption. > Sure, they might have better QC, but they may also leave things unanswered > because the document that did have the answers didn't fit the LDP > criteria. I think that's a shame. > > > --Donnie > > -- > Donnie Barnes http://www.donniebarnes.com djb@donniebarnes.com "Bah." > Challenge Diversity. Ignore People. Live Life. Use Linux. 879. V. > Bats, when dipped in batter and deep fried, still taste pretty bad. > > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id GAA11909 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 06:24:27 +1000 Received: (qmail 15521 invoked by uid 38); 27 Sep 1999 20:18:39 -0000 Resent-Date: 27 Sep 1999 20:18:39 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: wheeler@ida.org From: "David Wheeler" Message-Id: <990927161614.ZM16521@aphrodite.csed.ida.org> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:16:14 -0400 In-Reply-To: Donnie Barnes "Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd)" (Sep 27, 1:52pm) References: <199909271752.NAA03210@chef.meridian.redhat.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (5.0.0 30July97) To: djb@redhat.com, guylhem@oeil.qc.ca, ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/615 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org >I suppose we should identify problems with the current manifesto before >re-writing it. Some here have problems with it, others (like myself) >like the current one. The current "license" is total garbage. As Linux becomes more widely used, you'd better figure out how to make an accurate license, set of licenses, or criteria for a license. Otherwise people will line up to sue or misuse you. How is it garbage? Let me count the ways: 1. Most seriously, the current license does NOT permit others to distribute unchanged documents, even though that seems to be the point of the project. That's stupid, and needs fixing. Think that's just a minor legal nit and wouldn't be exploited? You're naive. The U.S. in particular is lawsuit-happy. 2.. Two of the 5 bulleted items ONLY apply to one document: the "Linux Installation and Getting Started" document. Here's the text: * Any translation or derivative work of Linux Installation and Getting Started must be approved by the author in writing before distribution. * If you distribute Linux Installation and Getting Started in part, instructions for obtaining the complete version of this manual must be included, and a means for obtaining a complete version provided. If you mean it to apply to all LDP documents, then say so. 3. The other three points have no useful effect. The phrase "The copyright notice above and this permission notice must be preserved complete on all complete or partial copies." is a wise thing to say, but even if you didn't say that its legal status would be unchanged. Also, absent any particular permission, you have to ask permission for anything including translation. Quoting the GPL, under its own terms, is always okay. So, you have a license that can replaced with the empty string (for other than the Installation & Getting Started doc). Bzzt. Bad license. Bad, bad license. Must be fixed. A license is code executed by malicious programs that prefer to exploit vulnerabilities in it. And they get paid millions of dollars to find exploits. Most people don't want to write licenses, and they're hard to get right. At least provide a default" license & guidelines for minimum acceptability. I'd rather write code & docs, not licenses. >Personally I don't care what license you use, I just think that if you >drop maintainership of a document that we (THE LDP) have the >right to change the license. The copyright info stays, but the license >itself can change. If _that's_ what you want, then you must say so in a license. Otherwise, the author has the right to never update a document again. Which indeed is what's happening. The LDP does _NOT_ have the right to change a document's license unless the authors unanimously agree to it or its license permits it. The copyright law says that an author has all rights to their product. If they want to give some rights away (e.g., allow redistribution, modification, or forking) then they have to say so. BTW, an author can always create a GPL'ed document, then create a proprietary version themselves. So placing a document under the GPL doesn't prevent the author from later sending it to a publisher under a different license. The other way's possible too, though usually publishers have rights that prevent it. -- --- David A. Wheeler wheeler@ida.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0003 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id HAA12238 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 07:03:56 +1000 Received: (qmail 452 invoked by uid 38); 27 Sep 1999 21:00:51 -0000 Resent-Date: 27 Sep 1999 21:00:51 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: guylhem@terram.oeil.qc.ca Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 21:47:35 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: Donnie Barnes Cc: Guylhem Aznar , "Mr. Poet" , Vladimir Vuksan , ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd) Message-ID: <19990927214735.C3665@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: <19990926182334.C1752@victis.oeil.qc.ca> <199909271752.NAA03210@chef.meridian.redhat.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=fOHHtNG4YXGJ0yqR; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <199909271752.NAA03210@chef.meridian.redhat.com>; from Donnie Barnes on Mon, Sep 27, 1999 at 01:52:42PM -0400 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/618 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org --fOHHtNG4YXGJ0yqR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Sep 27, 1999 at 01:52:42PM -0400, Donnie Barnes wrote: > like the current one. I guess the new leader wins? I personally=20 > don't care for that structure. I don't think anyone "wins" ; people reported problems with current manifesto (seen the threads on ldp-discuss?), so I think we should fix it. However, if more people think it is perfect right now, we'll keep it. > I still feel that any license that conforms to the current manifesto > is fine for the LDP. If you require a single license *or* require > that the license allow document modification by third parties, I will > no longer consider contributing LDP documentation. (No, I haven't > done much lately, but I certainly wouldn't consider doing more in the > future, either.) It will be the same with next manifesto ! DGPL, GPL, OPL... There won't be a single license, but a set of license, a license guide and a preferred license. You'll be free to pick up the one you best like (with restrictions for thirs parties modification if you pick the DGPL, or less restrictions with the GPL or the OPL) > in one place that were *freely redistributable*. Your changes will > move the LDP more into the realm of a tightly controlled project with > a much more narrow agenda and likely less works available for consumption. What will happens when more license problems arise ? We can't just ignore them and hope nobody will notice. > Sure, they might have better QC, but they may also leave things unanswered > because the document that did have the answers didn't fit the LDP > criteria. I think that's a shame. He's a short sum up : - the document must be released under a free license (with details in the new manifesto, a license guide, and a set of license) - the document must be freely redistributable and printable, but short exclusivity (less than 1 year) can be given for initial publication - the author must accept, if he can't be reached for more than 2 month or if he ever decides to stop maintaining his document, that someone else will be given the right to maintain his document (while acknowledging previous author of course) under the same license Not only must we write free documentation, but we must also ensure it will remain free and available. --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Save East Timor: http://altern.org/spoirier/timor.html http://www.pst-timor= .org --fOHHtNG4YXGJ0yqR Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN+/J19+QeWug/qfFAQGukAP6AuFh/39NUr32FH7b5tDEfaQwk0sDT1Hy zzLlvICsHrZAX0nIFQXN7cCeuvVz2gh7VWMjWaSelUPc0cEN2ZrY5B2+SRNg3kgq /DqoDgKBBW1AfyKsSPuG0WNm5s8nj/qJFfcmTZ2+m+wixkZMsO8t4lDPcXHvkcBE AeNZqxAJuqY= =t+cF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --fOHHtNG4YXGJ0yqR-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0013 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id HAA12245 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 07:04:09 +1000 Received: (qmail 598 invoked by uid 38); 27 Sep 1999 21:00:59 -0000 Resent-Date: 27 Sep 1999 21:00:59 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: guylhem@terram.oeil.qc.ca Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 21:36:07 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: Donnie Barnes Cc: "Mr. Poet" , Guylhem Aznar , Vladimir Vuksan , ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd) Message-ID: <19990927213607.B3665@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: <199909271807.OAA03397@chef.meridian.redhat.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="gr/z0/N6AeWAPJVB"; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <199909271807.OAA03397@chef.meridian.redhat.com>; from Donnie Barnes on Mon, Sep 27, 1999 at 02:07:31PM -0400 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <-lE6xB.A.-I.Ks973@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/619 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org --gr/z0/N6AeWAPJVB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Sep 27, 1999 at 02:07:31PM -0400, Donnie Barnes wrote: > The problem is that it is impossible to define "drop maintainership" in > a general way. =20 >=20 > I still don't see this as much of an issue. Rarely can anyone point me > to an example where this has happened and a document that was *useful* Please read my previous message : it has just happened. --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Save East Timor: http://altern.org/spoirier/timor.html http://www.pst-timor= .org --gr/z0/N6AeWAPJVB Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN+/HJ9+QeWug/qfFAQH9uwP/cANkzCiDbq+OOO6P7TxA/qQvUA3UHKKB ocCWtJpVdaiFLD/KEE+sGiCknnURJ1SlB7aB5/E1KgZXks+/bAsey95uDOKOeje7 HzoJAnsiXXY/cyWfmhFPm8pvgFVXfr8/BM2Wxoi6zsYammRQ5lQWFHx7fUHCm6qQ bRmKQyP+fK8= =6+Hk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --gr/z0/N6AeWAPJVB-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id VAA30928 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:46:40 +1000 Received: (qmail 9737 invoked by uid 38); 30 Sep 1999 11:46:23 -0000 Resent-Date: 30 Sep 1999 11:46:23 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: guylhem@terram.oeil.qc.ca Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 00:46:55 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: Donnie Barnes Cc: Guylhem Aznar , Vladimir Vuksan , LDP discuss Subject: Re: QC volunteers? (Was: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd)) Message-ID: <19990929004655.B1019@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: <19990927213432.A3665@victis.oeil.qc.ca> <199909281805.OAA04268@chef.meridian.redhat.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=f2QGlHpHGjS2mn6Y; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <199909281805.OAA04268@chef.meridian.redhat.com>; from Donnie Barnes on Tue, Sep 28, 1999 at 02:05:53PM -0400 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/688 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org --f2QGlHpHGjS2mn6Y Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Sep 28, 1999 at 02:05:53PM -0400, Donnie Barnes wrote: > There you go again. You're trying to make the LDP something that it > doesn't have to be. Namely, a controlling and manipulative organization. I just want to keep documentation free. > content. If an author wants to give that to you, fine. But otherwise, > it's his and you simply MUST respect that. Why is this so hard? I fully respect his wishes, anyway I'd like to avoid that in the future, when we won't have only *indivuduals* but also *companies* who'll hold copyrights. This will happen someday. > author to replicate it *just* for the LDP. No, the LDP doesn't cover > the topic. Fine. Someone does, though. Did you ever consider the fact > that even if he does remove his docs from the LDP that he might still lea= ve > them under a license that allows the LDP to simply pull them anyway? Sur= e, I re-asked if he really wanted to remove his documents from the LDP. I will not go against his wishes. If he feels like providing a free version, fine, else will do without it, and someday find an author who'll want to cover that. > Sheesh, methinks the LDP is starting to stray in directions that I don't > care to see it go. What if a "deadly blockade of battleships" (I'm also a big fan of TPM, I've seen it 5 times...) from some greedy commercial organisation endanger the LDP in a near future ? Vladimir is free to do whatever he wants with his document, but if commercial printers provide us help or documents, we'll have to think of the license issue. I haven't any personnal grief with Vladimir, but I fear some commercial printer could one day do the same. And *that* would be a problem. What if Alan Cox or some famous kernel hacker was hired by Microsoft and decided to remove his code from the linux kernel ? I think the GPL prevents this. I just want the same for documents. --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Save East Timor: http://altern.org/spoirier/timor.html http://www.pst-timor= .org --f2QGlHpHGjS2mn6Y Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN/FFX9+QeWug/qfFAQFTtwP8Dx1MdF22V5DyRJFspPsW68AmqgAZCkgy K3W4ey9ikloy/y4RlOd/pCBoNvmZn4fVWiEuxBvd4Chh2id5QgupwjS7yoS4/9/7 vkZKD4cCtKr0cC41TaBOoOWKM1n1RcjFfoHf0qVQcrKHdl4Uo5DzhCRlCaIzQ/+h QsebMtan/Mc= =fbFe -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --f2QGlHpHGjS2mn6Y-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id VAA30937 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:46:47 +1000 Received: (qmail 9972 invoked by uid 38); 30 Sep 1999 11:46:39 -0000 Resent-Date: 30 Sep 1999 11:46:39 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: guylhem@terram.oeil.qc.ca Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 00:53:47 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: Donnie Barnes Cc: David Wheeler , guylhem@oeil.qc.ca, ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd) Message-ID: <19990929005347.D1019@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: <990927161614.ZM16521@aphrodite.csed.ida.org> <199909281424.KAA01396@chef.meridian.redhat.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=2Z2K0IlrPCVsbNpk; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <199909281424.KAA01396@chef.meridian.redhat.com>; from Donnie Barnes on Tue, Sep 28, 1999 at 10:24:26AM -0400 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/689 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org --2Z2K0IlrPCVsbNpk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Sep 28, 1999 at 10:24:26AM -0400, Donnie Barnes wrote: > minimum acceptability. There are already plenty of licenses out there > that meet those for you to choose from. You can write your own if you > want. This is exactly the situation I *like*. If the LDP wants to > have a suggested license (or a set of them), that's fine to. What I > don't want is the LDP to REQUIRE A PARTICULAR license. Once again : NO PARTICULAR LICENSE WILL BE REQUIRED. One will certainly be suggested if it best fit LDP needs, but that's all. You'll have a manifesto, a set of licenses and the freedom to pick or write the one you want. --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Save East Timor: http://altern.org/spoirier/timor.html http://www.pst-timor= .org --2Z2K0IlrPCVsbNpk Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN/FG+t+QeWug/qfFAQHAMwP/VdGs6o2Hcc1fkbPWjpyGJ83M+S2cTBib IUiZ9xq/H2SgxwNE56nelyhdl2m3go3k9O9Jb1j/22DaSX96iVSQy0KrFtTfi8xx XY+UOy/NzfnmbN84JNg+ugAicJhGFcIgWPmfPjsvMdMrv+wnlVFoyGrCMOyz17lX Ci3Z1lSIG8c= =9sAC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --2Z2K0IlrPCVsbNpk-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id JAA15197 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:06:30 +1000 Received: (qmail 9807 invoked by uid 38); 29 Aug 1999 23:06:02 -0000 Resent-Date: 29 Aug 1999 23:06:02 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: psj@mustec.eu.org Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 00:02:40 +0100 (GMT) From: P Jenner To: poet@linuxports.com cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: LDP proposal Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"knhR_.A.xYC.Zzby3"@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/285 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org OK I have some comments on the new proposal. Would it also be possible for you to number sections of the proposal report style as that would allow myself and others to comment on it and discuss it more easily. 1) Mission Statement: I both see and use the LDP docs not only as sources of info for Linux but sources of info for other OSs running Open Source software and (more reasonably) for the Open Source software itself. This applies particularly to GNU Mach and GNU software under other UNICES (eg BSD). I think this should be reflected in the mission statement so that non-Linux users still look to the LDP in relevant instances. 2) A specific licence is not as good a solution as a group of acceptable licences (such as the Open Source Definition) in the eyes of most who discuss the matter. 3) I think all (?) agree on the move to an LDP specific domain (linuxdoc.org) through which the LDP can have an Internet presence whether it be by World Wide Web, ftp, CVS, e-mail, mailing-list, NNTP news or IRC. The linuxdoc.org domain should be used to the full as a "one-stop shop" for LDP related needs. This allows users easy access to the relevant information and can attract more help to the LDP. 4) In line with a move to the linuxdoc.org domain I believe most people interested in a quality LDP will also want to see an improved web presence as you suggest. 5) The Board structure you propose is interesting but you make no argument why it should be that way. 6) Again the voting issue is not argued for in the proposal - why is it necessary? I have worked on a number of successful projects and none have had such a formal voting proceedure. I hope these comments prove useful. Paul ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul S Jenner GNU/Linux Advocate E-mail: psj@mustec.eu.org WWW: http://www.mustec.eu.org/~psj/ UNSOLICITED COMMERCIAL E-MAIL IS NOT WELCOME AT THIS ADDRESS ----------------------------------------------------------------------- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id EAA21421 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 04:15:57 +1000 Received: (qmail 27617 invoked by uid 38); 10 Sep 1999 18:15:43 -0000 Resent-Date: 10 Sep 1999 18:15:42 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: mdw@bhikku.CS.Berkeley.EDU Message-Id: <199909101815.LAA10546@mnemosyne.CS.Berkeley.EDU> To: "Mr. Poet" cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org From: Matt Welsh Reply-To: Matt Welsh Subject: Re: Let the war begin In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:03:16 PDT." Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:18:15 -0700 Sender: mdw@bhikku.CS.Berkeley.EDU Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/365 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org This is fine, but let's make the front page look as nice as the original, at least, so it doesn't look like the LDP is taking a big step back in its design and scope. Retaining the logo would be a first step. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id EAA21468 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 04:23:34 +1000 Received: (qmail 2958 invoked by uid 38); 10 Sep 1999 18:23:27 -0000 Resent-Date: 10 Sep 1999 18:23:27 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: mdw@bhikku.CS.Berkeley.EDU Message-Id: <199909101823.LAA10939@mnemosyne.CS.Berkeley.EDU> To: "Mr. Poet" cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org From: Matt Welsh Reply-To: Matt Welsh Subject: Re: Let the war begin In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:30:16 PDT." Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:26:12 -0700 Sender: mdw@bhikku.CS.Berkeley.EDU Resent-Message-ID: <5iu7kB.A.Fu.fyU23@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/367 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org "Mr. Poet" writes: > Hello, > > O.k. I am going to assume you are viewing in Netscape or Lynx both of > which do not support style sheets correctly so you will not see the color. It's probably not good to design these pages for IE, since this is a Linux site. Please use only standard HTML functions which Netscape and IE both support. The pages looked fine before, without style sheets. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id EAA21528 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 04:35:34 +1000 Received: (qmail 8561 invoked by uid 38); 10 Sep 1999 18:33:27 -0000 Resent-Date: 10 Sep 1999 18:33:27 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: psj@mustec.eu.org Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:27:45 +0100 (GMT) From: P Jenner To: poet@linuxports.com cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: New web site Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/369 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Good first impressions - even happier that something is moving on this issue :-) I do have some useful comments though: 1) Good that the page is browser independent and works in lynx - I often use lynx to view the LDP. 2) Under the mirrors section on the main page you say "the date on this page is not within.." but it is unclear which date on this page you mean. 3) It would be more convenient to split up the old docs list page and put the list for Guides, HOWTOs, man pages etc on separate pages. 4) A how to get involved or current LDP projects page would be good to entice in volunteers. 5) The search is broken. Put in "3Dfx" and it does not even return the 3Dfx HOWTO :-( 6) Sections for the LDP translations would be nice too. Something like "http://www.linuxdoc.org/es/" for spanish etc. Then everything else could reside under "http://www.linuxdoc.org/en/" and the main page could point to the english index page. For foreign mirrors this may be a useful and positive system as both foreign speakers and native speakers may be presnt in a ny given land and do not want to use a mirror (eg a Spanish speaker in the US does not want to use the spanish mirror site and an English speaker in Spain does not want to use the US mirror). I hope these help, Paul ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul S Jenner GNU/Linux Advocate E-mail: psj@mustec.eu.org WWW: http://www.mustec.eu.org/~psj/ UNSOLICITED COMMERCIAL E-MAIL IS NOT WELCOME AT THIS ADDRESS ----------------------------------------------------------------------- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0013 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id QAA24988 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 16:45:16 +1000 Received: (qmail 27315 invoked by uid 38); 11 Sep 1999 06:45:02 -0000 Resent-Date: 11 Sep 1999 06:45:02 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: iolea@tsai.es Message-ID: <37D9FDBC.FD7BA4BB@tsai.es> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 08:59:08 +0200 From: Ismael Olea X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [es] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Mr. Poet" CC: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Logo Contest References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Infomail-Id: 937031773.0AEB010A811067.11773 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/381 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Mr. Poet escribió: > > Hello, > > How do people feel about holding a logo contest for the LDP logo? At Lucas we have a logo based on a work of Picasso about "Don Quixote". Picasso and Cervantes are very well world artists. If you want, it can be the LDP logo. You can see it on http://lucas.hispalinux.es/icons/pinpanza.gif -- Ismael Olea TSAI, Área Sistemas, Unix tlf. 91-7548748 iolea@tsai.es olea@iname.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id RAA25111 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:11:16 +1000 Received: (qmail 12281 invoked by uid 38); 11 Sep 1999 07:11:09 -0000 Resent-Date: 11 Sep 1999 07:11:09 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: iolea@tsai.es Message-ID: <37DA03EE.DD8F1215@tsai.es> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 09:25:34 +0200 From: Ismael Olea X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [es] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Mr. Poet" CC: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Let the war begin References: <199909101823.LAA10939@mnemosyne.CS.Berkeley.EDU> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Infomail-Id: 937034221.4461010A811066.14221 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/382 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Matt Welsh escribió: > It's probably not good to design these pages for IE, since this is a Linux > site. Please use only standard HTML functions which Netscape and IE both > support. The pages looked fine before, without style sheets. Yes. Please validate your html code against: http://validator.w3.org/ :-) -- Ismael Olea TSAI, Área Sistemas, Unix tlf. 91-7548748 iolea@tsai.es olea@iname.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id KAA16624 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:30:05 +1000 Received: (qmail 29434 invoked by uid 38); 13 Sep 1999 00:26:45 -0000 Resent-Date: 13 Sep 1999 00:26:44 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: pjones@metalab.unc.edu X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: pjones owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:21:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul Jones X-Sender: pjones@titan.oit.unc.edu To: "Mr. Poet" cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: If you are interested In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/405 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org most excellent. i just wrote to greg ferg to say that we have four search engines on metalab which you may use. heck you could offer choices. we index the whole thing with infoseek which has very very powerful options and is very quick. you can easily set up a search limited to LDP from only a html page. problem: not open source we are also indexing the whole thing with htdig--which is what i assume you are using. problem: nearly feature free we used Isearch for linsearch, aka searching the LSMs and the linux archives. openSource and very nice for even complex template-based searching. problem: no stemming or other advanced features excite does have a free engine which we have used. i'm not as happy with it as i am with infoseek--that may just be personal taste. but problem: not openSource of course you can install others too ========================================================================== Paul Jones "We must protect our precious bodily fluids!" General Jack D Ripper http://MetaLab.unc.edu/pjones/ at the Site Formerly Known As SunSITE.unc.edu pjones@MetaLab.unc.edu voice: (919) 962-7600 fax: (919) 962-8071 =========================================================================== -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id MAA17088 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:03:56 +1000 Received: (qmail 28339 invoked by uid 38); 13 Sep 1999 02:03:32 -0000 Resent-Date: 13 Sep 1999 02:03:32 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:49:04 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim To: poet@linuxports.com cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: projects page Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/410 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Hello, I'd like to see an LDP projects page, or at least a HOWTO projects page on docs that are currently being worked on. Can we make this happen? I've also asked Poet about adding a HOWTO-Updates page, which will show what HOWTOs (FAQs, mini's, etc.) have been processed/updated/uploaded recently. I'd like this to not be a "fixed" doc that will be overwritten, but rather something that shows a "history" of updated docs. Comments/suggestions welcomed! Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/HOWTO tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id OAA24639 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:50:55 +1000 Received: (qmail 25011 invoked by uid 38); 14 Sep 1999 04:50:48 -0000 Resent-Date: 14 Sep 1999 04:50:48 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: garym@maya.dyndns.org Sender: garym@mail.wccweb.com To: "Mr. Poet" Cc: P Jenner , ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org, ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org, recipient list not shown: ; Subject: Re: LDP bug-tracker References: From: Gary Lawrence Murphy Date: 14 Sep 1999 00:50:34 -0400 Message-ID: Reply-To: Gary Lawrence Murphy Organization: TeleDynamics --- the Art of Being There X-Url: http://www.teledyn.com/ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/435 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org I have a tarball of the WREQ help-desk system if anyone wants it. It's only about 90k of perl code when compressed. I'm interested in any others if there are open source problem trackers, and especially any based on Postgres (bugzilla is tied to the non-OS MySQL) -- Gary Lawrence Murphy TeleDynamics Communications Inc Business Telecom Services : Internet Consulting : http://www.teledyn.com Linux Writers Workshop Archive: http://www.egroups.com/group/linux-hack/ "You don't play what you know; you play what you hear." -- (Miles Davis) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id XAA21750 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 23:33:24 +1000 Received: (qmail 24762 invoked by uid 38); 18 Sep 1999 13:33:09 -0000 Resent-Date: 18 Sep 1999 13:33:09 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: garym@maya.dyndns.org Sender: garym@mail.wccweb.com To: "Mr. Poet" Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Subject: But where do we stand on OPL? References: From: Gary Lawrence Murphy Date: 18 Sep 1999 09:32:14 -0400 Message-ID: Reply-To: Gary Lawrence Murphy Organization: TeleDynamics --- the Art of Being There X-Url: http://www.teledyn.com/ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/480 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org I had an email from Alessandro this morning. His understanding is that a document published under the OPL (esp OPL with the option to reserve book printing rights) prevents a document from being included in the LDP. Is this true? What is the stance of the LDP on the open publishing licence? While I can agree with people like Richard Stallman that the very best work can only come out of GPL-style restrictions, it is also true that some wonderful software is less restrictive. For example, the BSD licences and other have no restrictions against arbitrary restrictions in the licence, and even the Linux kernel allows for (but does not distribute) non-GPL modules. If we take a 100%-free stance as dogma, we miss an opportunity to have the LDP include professionally edited and corporately sponsored documents; allowing for some "mostly free" content might require the multi-tier classification I wrote about before, but provides a means for the LDP to leverage rather than compete with publishers like ORA, IDG and MCP (who, on the other hand, freely leverage the LDP to pad thier books) -- Gary Lawrence Murphy TeleDynamics Communications Inc Business Telecom Services : Internet Consulting : http://www.teledyn.com Linux Writers Workshop Archive: http://www.egroups.com/group/linux-hack/ "You don't play what you know; you play what you hear." -- (Miles Davis) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id UAA07251 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 20:38:39 +1000 Received: (qmail 3634 invoked by uid 38); 19 Sep 1999 10:38:28 -0000 Resent-Date: 19 Sep 1999 10:38:28 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: guylhem@victis.oeil.qc.ca Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 00:22:58 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: {poet} Cc: Tim , ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: linuxdoc.org: copyright and Manifesto Message-ID: <19990919002258.A973@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: <19990916172117.B6135@albert.animats.net> <199909181456.HAA06540@crazypenguins.commandprompt.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=qMm9M+Fa2AknHoGS; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <199909181456.HAA06540@crazypenguins.commandprompt.com>; from {poet} on Sat, Sep 18, 1999 at 07:41:26AM -0700 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/496 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org --qMm9M+Fa2AknHoGS Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Sep 18, 1999 at 07:41:26AM -0700, {poet} wrote: > Personally I still think it is stupid that we allow LICENSING of=20 > documentation. The GPL is not a documentation license. People have=20 > stated that it will work for documentation, this may be true but it is > still a little backwards.. We asked RMS to write a DGPL, it will be ready in a near future. I think we should prefer it to any other license. However, each author would be free to choose any other license, we could just recommand DGPL. --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Save East Timor: http://altern.org/spoirier/timor.html http://www.pst-timor= .org --qMm9M+Fa2AknHoGS Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN+QQwt+QeWug/qfFAQETCQP/ZGGgCjbahbjG/CBlez71eqH5eo/hXGZK JUIzvAov41JJjjPmDhm6eqMgCmb+tB3S3T0COuU2/mmm9nqcGXGIuvDfGfIWpVmA yZiCjeJgWyq+N7PS6OWAWigEcwjwU8xSpciKdVjR9rbGTm0JOP7d/aSILN6QJxQV w2+C/Dx8yb0= =ybvG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --qMm9M+Fa2AknHoGS-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id EAA09236 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 04:03:13 +1000 Received: (qmail 26235 invoked by uid 38); 19 Sep 1999 18:02:35 -0000 Resent-Date: 19 Sep 1999 18:02:35 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: pjones@metalab.unc.edu X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: pjones owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:59:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul Jones X-Sender: pjones@titan.oit.unc.edu To: "Mr. Poet" cc: Tim , Yves Bellefeuille , LDP discuss Subject: Re: Are we good enough ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/506 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org i regularly get html in my messages and as attachment at metalab. could it be tim's e-mail? can we test? On Sun, 19 Sep 1999, Mr. Poet wrote: > I wonder if this emailer is stripping the html > > > LinuxPorts - http://www.linuxports.com > LDP - http://www.linuxdoc.org > > On Sun, 19 Sep 1999, Tim wrote: > > > > > > I sent the upgrade in both text and HTML format. I'm sending it again -- > > > for the fourth time. > > Again....I only received the doc in text format. > > > > I've apologized for any delays.....that's all I can do. > > > > > > Best Regards, > > Tim > > > > -- > > Linux HOWTO coordinator http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/HOWTO > > tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) > > tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) > > tbynum@rineco.com (Work) > > http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) > > > > D I P C > > The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the > > easy way! > > http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ > > > > > > -- > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org > > > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org > > ========================================================================== Paul Jones "We must protect our precious bodily fluids!" General Jack D Ripper http://MetaLab.unc.edu/pjones/ at the Site Formerly Known As SunSITE.unc.edu pjones@MetaLab.unc.edu voice: (919) 962-7600 fax: (919) 962-8071 =========================================================================== -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id DAA04119 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 03:58:11 +1000 Received: (qmail 32586 invoked by uid 38); 26 Sep 1999 17:58:00 -0000 Resent-Date: 26 Sep 1999 17:58:00 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: mdw@bhikku.CS.Berkeley.EDU Message-Id: <199909261757.KAA28873@mnemosyne.CS.Berkeley.EDU> To: "Mr. Poet" Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org From: Matt Welsh Reply-To: Matt Welsh Subject: Re: Help compiling SGML In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 26 Sep 1999 00:40:36 PDT." Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 11:00:52 -0700 Sender: mdw@bhikku.CS.Berkeley.EDU Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/576 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Josh - Just a quick comment on the latest site design. Can you refrain from using fixed-size frames on the Linuxdoc pages? Specifying the width of frames using percentages is much nicer. As it stands now I have to grow my Netscape window to more than 800 pixels wide in order to see everything -- this goes against good Web design taste and looks terrible on my laptop. It's best to err on the side of being VERY "user friendly" on the Linuxdoc pages -- remember that this is the first point of contact for many new Linux users. And just to add my two cents on the licensing issue: It's probably best to recommend a particular license for new authors, but not force people to adhere to a single license. This only reduces the number of authors willing to contribute. Thanks, Matt -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id EAA04318 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 04:36:16 +1000 Received: (qmail 2355 invoked by uid 38); 26 Sep 1999 18:36:07 -0000 Resent-Date: 26 Sep 1999 18:36:07 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: guylhem@terram.oeil.qc.ca Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 18:23:34 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: "Mr. Poet" Cc: Vladimir Vuksan , ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org, ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd) Message-ID: <19990926182334.C1752@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="QKdGvSO+nmPlgiQ/"; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: ; from Mr. Poet on Sat, Sep 25, 1999 at 04:01:02PM -0700 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/577 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org --QKdGvSO+nmPlgiQ/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Sep 25, 1999 at 04:01:02PM -0700, Mr. Poet wrote: > O.k. I am going to try and stop this right now. First CVS is under > development and expected to working by mid-october. Second we are also > working on a FTP infrastructure, which in fact already exists but does not > have much bandwidth. I will try to make it work ASAP. (BTW, do you have finished your part of the slashdot article ?) > We are also working on producing an online disccusion area plus licensing > issues. A new LDP manifesto with a license guide will be written. --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Save East Timor: http://altern.org/spoirier/timor.html http://www.pst-timor= .org --QKdGvSO+nmPlgiQ/ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN+5Iht+QeWug/qfFAQGmswP/cJWw17NKoG4eGj665rlnpFLHvwKK9Yyl ududqF6qBa+zyvJkC113c8YJsRkGEwmLrGJxI5wFB3B58Ary1rXd27UGtZX+nqRp jPUNBOZBJmTXubWVvy17BucqaZNVxVLsbcVNVjFSSNGKH8sS0zkwKY31RTtjKmXU OPT8fs3NJ/E= =DX2/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --QKdGvSO+nmPlgiQ/-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id MAA06809 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:21:44 +1000 Received: (qmail 9056 invoked by uid 38); 27 Sep 1999 02:21:36 -0000 Resent-Date: 27 Sep 1999 02:21:36 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: kclark@cmpu.net From: Kendall Clark MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14318.54418.470835.157879@cmpu.net> Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 21:21:06 -0500 (CDT) To: "Mr. Poet" Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org, ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: Comments on web site. In-Reply-To: References: <14318.50402.886843.340817@cmpu.net> X-Mailer: VM 6.72 under 21.0 "20 minutes to Nikko" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: kclark@ntlug.org Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/594 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org >>>>> "Poet" == Poet writes: Poet> Hello, Before we make assumptions that we have no idea Poet> about, let me state that a request has been put to several Poet> people for a written history about the LDP. We have yet to Poet> receive the document. We are also in the process of creating Poet> a sponsors document and an Auhtors section to give credit Poet> where credit is due in regards to hosting, programming and Poet> all of that kind of stuff. Poet> In regards to the Core Team statement, although there are a Poet> few out there that could truly care less about who the Poet> "team" is. I can honestly say that since we have placed the Poet> members in a very visible place people have been actually Poet> been becoming positive about the project. Poet> I have been contacted on numerous occasions about "Gee, it Poet> is nice to see who I can yell at now". It has also served a Poet> great deal in helping people direct their email to the Poet> correct places instead of just one person getting all of it. Poet> So next time, try asking question as to why or what instead Poet> of crawling on a soap box. We are working extrememly hard to Poet> turn the LDP into a much better situation than it has been Poet> in recent months, be patient we are trying to rebuild a lot Poet> of this from scratch. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Patience or impatience is simply not the issue. You asked for comments, and now you seem peeved that some of them are negative. This idea of yours of "from scratch" is *exactly* the problem! This silly attitude comes through loud and clear on the site as it is, and it's just patently false. What *precisely* are you guys doing "from scratch"? After all, you started with a TON of pre-existing material. There was already a website, already a mountain of documentation (and backed up documentation), there was already an identifiable "brand", namely, "LDP". If you can't see how inappropriately self-promotive the site is, I suggest you compare it to 10 or 20 of your favorite free software projects. Are any of them so upfront about the "core team"? I don't think so. You asked for comments. You've gotten some from two different people, both of which suggest, at least, a modulation of the way the "core team" is being presented. Choose to do with it what you will, you did solicit feedback. If you don't like it, that's fine. But distorting the history of the LDP by claiming to be doing much of anything "from scratch" is patently false. Best, Kendall Clark -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id QAA08008 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:28:30 +1000 Received: (qmail 4962 invoked by uid 38); 27 Sep 1999 06:28:23 -0000 Resent-Date: 27 Sep 1999 06:28:23 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: bf347@lafn.org Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 23:28:09 -0700 Message-Id: <199909270628.AA03063@lafn.org> From: bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer) To: poet@linuxports.com Subject: Re: Comments on web site. Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Reply-To: bf347@lafn.org Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/600 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Poet wrote: > >In regards to the Core Team statement, although there are a few out there >that could truly care less about who the "team" is. I can honestly say >that since we have placed the members in a very visible place people have >been actually been becoming positive about the project. Most of the people who come to the site are looking for info. On my lynx browser on a small screen, the core team takes up most of the first screen. It's OK to have them on the first screen but they should not come first. They need to be compactly arranged. The old site had a few links on a single line with everything single spaced. Now it's only a couple of words per line with double spacing. Thus I think that links to the HOWTOs should come first on the page (after a modest LDP title). And they should be more compactly arranged to accomodate large print on small screens (like my text-terminal). David Lawyer -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id BAA10673 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 01:54:57 +1000 Received: (qmail 10170 invoked by uid 38); 27 Sep 1999 15:54:49 -0000 Resent-Date: 27 Sep 1999 15:54:49 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: mdw@bhikku.CS.Berkeley.EDU Message-Id: <199909271554.IAA19200@mnemosyne.CS.Berkeley.EDU> To: "Mr. Poet" cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org From: Matt Welsh Reply-To: Matt Welsh Subject: Re: LDP web site, etc. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 27 Sep 1999 07:45:10 PDT." Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 08:58:04 -0700 Sender: mdw@bhikku.CS.Berkeley.EDU Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/606 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > I have also considered running > banners for other OSS sites the way that linux.com does but that will have > to wait until more things come around the corner. I hate banners. They're on practically every web page I can think of; wouldn't it be nice if the LDP were a bannerless oasis in the desert of the World Wide Web? There are other ways to promote other OSS projects (a list of links, for example). Banners waste bandwidth and annoy the hell out of people with slow modems. Let's chuck 'em! Matt -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id EAA11281 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 04:08:00 +1000 Received: (qmail 11218 invoked by uid 38); 27 Sep 1999 18:07:53 -0000 Resent-Date: 27 Sep 1999 18:07:53 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: djb@redhat.com Message-Id: <199909271807.OAA03397@chef.meridian.redhat.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 To: "Mr. Poet" cc: Guylhem Aznar , Vladimir Vuksan , ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd) In-reply-to: from "Mr. Poet" on Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:08:02 PDT. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:07:31 -0400 From: Donnie Barnes Resent-Message-ID: <38C18.A.JvC.5J773@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/611 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > Personally I don't care what license you use, I just think that if you > drop maintainership of a document that we (THE LDP) have the > right to change the license. The copyright info stays, but the license > itself can change. The problem is that it is impossible to define "drop maintainership" in a general way. I still don't see this as much of an issue. Rarely can anyone point me to an example where this has happened and a document that was *useful* had to be orphaned. Why impose restrictions for a problem that just never happens? --Donnie -- Donnie Barnes http://www.donniebarnes.com djb@donniebarnes.com "Bah." Challenge Diversity. Ignore People. Live Life. Use Linux. 879. V. Bats, when dipped in batter and deep fried, still taste pretty bad. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id UAA11614 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 20:56:56 +1000 Received: (qmail 8881 invoked by uid 38); 29 Aug 1999 10:56:46 -0000 Resent-Date: 29 Aug 1999 10:56:46 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: borto@dei.unipd.it Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 12:29:49 +0200 (CEST) From: Giovanni Bortolozzo X-Sender: borto@dylan.my.org Reply-To: borto@dei.unipd.it To: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Subject: My 2 cents on "LDP - New Direction" In-Reply-To: <37BDB0FF.171BA381@tu-harburg.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"8rUYBD.A.oKC.uHRy3"@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/270 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Hi, I'm ones of the coordinators of ILDP (Italian Linux Documentation Project). We deal primarly with translations of LDP docs (HOWTOs, guides, etc.), but we produce also original documentations (see Appunti Linux the best Linux guide I see on Internet... sorry, it's only in Italian :). I've been in ILDP for 4 years now, and 2 years ago I became a coordinator. I just read "Linux Documentation Project - A new direction " (rev. 3). Here my comments (sorry for may poor English): LDP should remain a group formed vy volunteers, and then volunteers should be allowed to write that want: we cannot impose that on authour write "objectively" about a specific problem or setup, as this his _volontary_ contribution to Linux community he should be free to write about the problem as he like, referring to a specific distribution. It's useless impose to authors to be generic when they wrote, to force them to use DocBook (also because, as far I know there aren't good tools to "render" docbook sources in all the format that linuxdoc allow), to force them to use a specific licence. The author should be let free to write as they want, to use the tools they already know, to use their licence, etc. We cannot allow to loose authors 'cause someone want more burocracy, control over the project. I like actual LDP organization. As mdw said: "Leadership in the LDP is really an oxymoron, because the group doesn't need any real leadership. All it needs is someone to work hard maintaining the documentation archives, running mailing lists, posting to USENET, and working with the various paper and electronic publishers who want to redistribute LDP materials." We don't need chairman, arbitrator, a lot of coordinator... we only need one or two coordinator and as much authors as possibile (this is the only rule we have in ILDP) Ciao Giova -- Giovanni Bortolozzo or *** ITALIAN DOCS 4 LINUX : http://www.pluto.linux.it/ildp *** Quando la sorte ti e` contraria e mancato ti e` il successo, smetti di far castelli in aria e va a piangere sul ... -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id FAA14018 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 05:32:21 +1000 Received: (qmail 17697 invoked by uid 38); 29 Aug 1999 19:32:09 -0000 Resent-Date: 29 Aug 1999 19:32:08 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: poet@linuxports.com Message-Id: <199908291939.MAA15642@crazypenguins.commandprompt.com> From: "{poet}" Organization: CommandPrompt Software To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 12:28:00 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: LDP A new direction part 2 Reply-to: poet@linuxports.com Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Resent-Message-ID: <"RzO74.A.VUE.3qYy3"@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/276 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Hello, Second Release 1st edit is released. http://www.linuxports.com/ldp.htm Poet Development in Real Time LinuxPorts - http://www.linuxports.com LDP - Howto Co-Coordinator Consultants VAR Commercial Net3/(4) WWW/Intranet -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id HAA14677 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 07:21:09 +1000 Received: (qmail 4757 invoked by uid 38); 29 Aug 1999 21:20:58 -0000 Resent-Date: 29 Aug 1999 21:20:57 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: dan@telent.net To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org cc: techwriters@linuxchix.org Subject: ANNOUNCE: CMU Common Lisp HOWTO draft From: Daniel Barlow Date: 29 Aug 1999 22:16:34 +0100 Message-ID: <87aerai8y5.fsf@tninkpad.telent.net> Lines: 32 User-Agent: Gnus/5.070095 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.95) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: Daniel Barlow Resent-Message-ID: <"nH1YwB.A.9JB.5Qay3"@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/280 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Just to show that occasionally I do things other than write to mailing lists, a draft CMU Common Lisp HOWTO is now available for critique. 36k, and about 4800 words. http://www.telent.net/lisp/howto.html Please have a look and offer advice, especially if you know one or more of - Common Lisp - English If you'd like to form an ongoing relationship with this document (i.e. get mail every time it changes), mail me. At the moment it assumes Linux because that's what I have. However the only section which is really OS-dependent is "Installation", and I'd gladly take content from anyone who has instructions or advice for other free Unixlikes. It's currently written in HTML, because that's the format that was most convenient to write. Conversion to DocBook is an option, as (I suppose, grudgingly) is LinuxDoc - if someone points me at docs that describe how to do tables in it. I wouldn't advise that people attempt to translate it until I've decided one way or the other. Your thoughts? -dan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id JAA06598 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:52:03 +1000 Received: (qmail 2218 invoked by uid 38); 31 Aug 1999 23:36:14 -0000 Resent-Date: 31 Aug 1999 23:36:14 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: pjones@metalab.unc.edu X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: pjones owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 18:22:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul Jones X-Sender: pjones@titan.oit.unc.edu To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: mailing list archives Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"AIK7BB.A._h.sbGz3"@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/293 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org i don't want to open a can of worms or a pandora's box, but wouldn't it be a good idea to archive the three public ldp lists (discuss, docbook, and announce) in a www accessible form? we could do that easily here using monarc or any other opensource list archivers. objections? comments? preferences? ========================================================================== Paul Jones "We must protect our precious bodily fluids!" General Jack D Ripper http://MetaLab.unc.edu/pjones/ at the Site Formerly Known As SunSITE.unc.edu pjones@MetaLab.unc.edu voice: (919) 962-7600 fax: (919) 962-8071 =========================================================================== -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id OAA07718 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:01:09 +1000 Received: (qmail 20664 invoked by uid 38); 1 Sep 1999 03:34:49 -0000 Resent-Date: 1 Sep 1999 03:34:48 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: richard@linsup.com Reply-To: From: "Richard Ames" To: Subject: RE: mailing list archives Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 13:21:35 +1000 Message-ID: <000101bef429$1837d020$0200a8c0@perch> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <9Ct8jC.A.6BF.X7Jz3@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/294 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Yes - it would be good. And it would be good to know where the LDP is headed. These lists are very quite for such an important topic. Regards, Richard. > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Jones [mailto:pjones@metalab.unc.edu] > Sent: Wednesday, 1 September 1999 8:22 > To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org > Subject: mailing list archives > > > i don't want to open a can of worms or a pandora's box, but wouldn't it be > a good idea to archive the three public ldp lists (discuss, docbook, and > announce) in a www accessible form? we could do that easily here using > monarc or any other opensource list archivers. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id LAA20552 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 11:33:18 +1000 Received: (qmail 14788 invoked by uid 38); 3 Sep 1999 01:33:01 -0000 Resent-Date: 3 Sep 1999 01:33:00 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: pjones@metalab.unc.edu X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: pjones owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 21:32:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul Jones X-Sender: pjones@titan.oit.unc.edu To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org cc: Jonathan Magid , Don Sizemore Subject: LDP-MetaLab status Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/305 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org thanks to jonathan magid, we are not only virtually hosting as www.linuxdoc.org, but we are rewriting all requests to metalab.unc.edu/LDP as www.linuxdoc.org this will make sure that the links etc will migrate to www.linuxdoc.org and that new bookmarks and the like will be www.linuxdoc.org this will help if anything--god forbid--were to happen to metalab or if the ldp needs to move for any reason as well as help insure that linuxdoc is the best known name for the site jonathan also installed CVS. we have no experience with CVS but we're willing to learn. this is contingent on your and guylhem's decissions that it would be useful to have CVS services on metalab. as i understand the plan in place, there would be a sort of backoffice/QC/submissions host created by VA. this is all fine and our having CVS up is not meant to preempt that effort. it's there if and when you wish to use it (with a little tolerance for our learning curve) donald sizemore is setting up mhonarc for archiving the three public lists, ldp-discuss, ldp-announce, and ldp-docbook. we know we need to upgrade to the latest version (actually donald may have done this already). more on mhonarc at: http://www.oac.uci.edu/indiv/ehood/mhonarc.html we'll give links to guylhem, greg freg, and matt soon as we're live. if you get a test message whilst we set up the archive, please don't panic but be patient. guylhem now has an id on metalab and along with tim, greg ferg and matt are members of the same group that owns the LDP directories. ========================================================================== Paul Jones "We must protect our precious bodily fluids!" General Jack D Ripper http://MetaLab.unc.edu/pjones/ at the Site Formerly Known As SunSITE.unc.edu pjones@MetaLab.unc.edu voice: (919) 962-7600 fax: (919) 962-8071 =========================================================================== -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id MAA20689 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 12:00:13 +1000 Received: (qmail 31519 invoked by uid 38); 3 Sep 1999 01:59:59 -0000 Resent-Date: 3 Sep 1999 01:59:59 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: richard@linsup.com Reply-To: From: "Richard Ames" To: Subject: Bitkeeper Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 11:59:48 +1000 Message-ID: <000101bef5b0$00c65640$0200a8c0@perch> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-Reply-To: Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/306 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org You might consider Bitkeeper in place of CVS. It is being built expressly to help the Linux effort (and I expect to Linus's specification). It will be open source licensed for use on open source projects... See http://www.bitkeeper.com/bk01.html, etc. for detail. Richard Ames linsup.com, Sydney, Australia Tel: +61 2 9144-6131, Fax: +61 2 9144-6138 mailto:richard@linsup.com http://www.linsup.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Jones [mailto:pjones@metalab.unc.edu] > Sent: Friday, 3 September 1999 11:33 > To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org > Cc: Jonathan Magid; Don Sizemore > Subject: LDP-MetaLab status > > > jonathan also installed CVS. we have no experience with CVS but we're > willing to learn. this is contingent on your and guylhem's decissions that -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id XAA23816 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 23:32:47 +1000 Received: (qmail 13824 invoked by uid 38); 3 Sep 1999 13:32:40 -0000 Resent-Date: 3 Sep 1999 13:32:40 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: markk@cgipc.com Sender: markk@mail.cgipc.com Message-ID: <37CFCE00.222A961D@cgipc.com> Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 09:32:48 -0400 From: Mark Komarinski X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.5-15 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Bitkeeper References: <000101bef5b0$00c65640$0200a8c0@perch> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/309 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org We're not writing a kernel here. This sounds like it's a bit more high-powered than we want. How many LDP documents have multuple authors? CVS is in most distros and is fairly easily documented. I'd say stick with that for now. -Mark Richard Ames wrote: > > You might consider Bitkeeper in place of CVS. It is being built expressly > to help the Linux effort (and I expect to Linus's specification). It will be > open source licensed for use on open source projects... > > See http://www.bitkeeper.com/bk01.html, etc. for detail. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Carlo Gavazzi IPC | Mark F. Komarinski, RHCE - Compat. Engineer| 176 Second Ave | markk@cgipc.com - www.cgipc.com | Waltham, MA 02451 USA | Ph: 781-290-4800 x138 Fx: 781-290-4810 | -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id DAA24794 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 03:18:18 +1000 Received: (qmail 19645 invoked by uid 38); 3 Sep 1999 17:18:07 -0000 Resent-Date: 3 Sep 1999 17:18:07 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: bf347@lafn.org Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 10:16:43 -0700 Message-Id: <199909031716.AA10857@lafn.org> From: bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer) To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: [rms@gnu.org: Re: Forwarded message from rms@gnu.org re License "Guidelines"] Reply-To: bf347@lafn.org Resent-Message-ID: <-nqgLB.A.oyE.PLA03@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/310 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org ================= Begin forwarded message ================= From: rms@gnu.org (Richard Stallman) To: bf347@lafn.org Subject: Re: Forwarded message from rms@gnu.org re License "Guidelines" Date: Wed, 01 Sep This week I studied APSL version 1.1, and it does not fix the problems. Our page about APSL has a note to say so. (Please forward this.) -- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id GAA25565 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 06:09:45 +1000 Received: (qmail 20764 invoked by uid 38); 3 Sep 1999 20:09:38 -0000 Resent-Date: 3 Sep 1999 20:09:38 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: guylhem@terram.oeil.qc.ca Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 15:26:42 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Local LDP Message-ID: <19990903152642.A911@victis.oeil.qc.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=a8Wt8u1KmwUX3Y2C; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/311 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org --a8Wt8u1KmwUX3Y2C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here's the last message. So far, only fr, es, it, de, sl, kr, id, jp and hr asked a domain name. If you are not on this list, please contact me ASAP. We will add www.XX.linuxdoc.org domains and links on linuxdoc homepage. --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Anywhere/Partout: guylhem-pager \@/ oeil.qc.ca --a8Wt8u1KmwUX3Y2C Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN8/Mkt+QeWug/qfFAQHh1gP/R5I+2M3HoG56Rupeoe4PBOFQm1XuEmN8 Jyhtn6mpUmFb6xeoTuOWUHJFB1zuUuyx9j/5sIRnRJvtFjwEuiQK754AhRkqy/xX b9zv1GAY7iZX0ZiUImsvGjdnoHPjc6EBqLFejRbUDfGz4+b/p/HCCtVjs2xMi6/j 6pMGZ0otHUE= =HcLb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --a8Wt8u1KmwUX3Y2C-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id GAA25580 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 06:10:23 +1000 Received: (qmail 21087 invoked by uid 38); 3 Sep 1999 20:10:16 -0000 Resent-Date: 3 Sep 1999 20:10:16 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: guylhem@terram.oeil.qc.ca Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 21:52:34 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: LDP discuss Subject: Should we split mini HOWTOs? Message-ID: <19990903215234.A523@victis.oeil.qc.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="J2SCkAp4GZ/dPZZf"; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/313 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org --J2SCkAp4GZ/dPZZf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I've read most of the responses to Slashdot article, and while I think we have fixes for an heavy majority of the problems reported, I'm concerned by some recurrent topic for which I had no plans right until now : giving precise answers to precise questions. For exemple, someone reported : << Could it be that with the 'userfriendly' distributions (RedHat, SuSe) nowadays less people are interested in the whole story? That could be another reason for lags in documentation. What we need is non-generic HOWTOs. Something which says "In Red Hat 6, the sendmail configuration file is created from ___ and you are supposed to modify ___ files. Changing your X fonts is done with ____", etc. >> Some weeks ago, we had long discussions about mini HOWTOs, we came to the conclusion they should be considered as plain HOWTOs. I think mini HOWTOs like "Fax-Server" or the "Lilo+something" serie (which is being rewritten by one of the new authors in one big HOWTO) should be made plain HOWTOs since they address global topics. OTOH, mini HOWTOs like "VAIO+Linux" shouldn't be called HOWTOs, but something like "Step By Step Guides", i.e. a precise guide for a precise question. We should provide this kind of documents for all kind of precise questions (even "Setting sendmail with RH6") for people who don't want to read global HOWTOs, even if the guide is only 2 pages long, for some very special topic ("Setting power-saving mode with Toshiba C110 laptops"). These "Step By Step Guides" could be submitted like standard HOWTOs, they would just go in a different directory, and be carefully indexed to ease searching in a "knowledge base" I fear this might lead to vendor dependance for some documents, but we could set strict submission policies, especially for the license (DGPL) therefore Guides like "Setting sendmail with RH6" could be adapted to "Setting sendmail with SlackWare" I'm very interested in the feedback, if we can agree I'd like to promote these Guides. It's only asking people who would not consider themselves as LDP authors to take some hours to write a clear guide for some problem they have already experienced and fixed. --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Anywhere/Partout: guylhem-pager \@/ oeil.qc.ca --J2SCkAp4GZ/dPZZf Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN9AnAt+QeWug/qfFAQEOpAP8CXr2hr1mhdooVDertJwG/PypKVFI1ddD DlwfLYP/2DKMAzYrLlgGeKXJcXUDT30mNLFBwKqSqJEQvmQiaXQ7x+JSCBWe03Y2 fQ7Tt1jwEpJaIhW0BI/s23dzgZks+ylIZnulQ3oyNBEYa0AIoR58YitKvmpAuWyk IbslySxXQho= =hop/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --J2SCkAp4GZ/dPZZf-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 15:25:15 +1000 (EST) From: terry@albert Subject: Re: Should we split mini HOWTOs? To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org In-Reply-To: <37D08C46.E7F9C7C4@wilcoxon.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII On 3 Sep, Scot E. Wilcoxon wrote: > It depends upon the situation. > In this case, it was really a FAQ which grew. I'm not sure how your example illustrates that. The same is true of the NET*-HOWTO, the PPP-HOWTO and others. None of this alters the fact that the major characteristic of a HOWTO that differentiates it from a Guide is that it provides step-by-step detail where-as the Guides are broader in scope and more general. If it doesn't explain How To do something it shouldn't be a HOWTO. There is an FAQ document class in the LDP suite that I think is underexploited at the expense of muddying the HOWTO waters. >> What we probably need is a document that describes the major >> differences between the major distributions ... covering the matters >> that commonly cause HOWTO authors to pull their hair out like how the >> rc files work, and versions of libc in use etc. > > For something like that, I'd suggest one document with chapters for > variants. The chapters can stand alone, yet have necessary references > to details and generalities elsewhere. Then people can design the > skeleton documents and others will plug in the details with which they > are more familiar. That's the sort of thing I had in mind, yes. Terry -- terry@albert.animats.net, terry@linux.org.au From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id NAA27607 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 13:04:15 +1000 Received: (qmail 732 invoked by uid 38); 4 Sep 1999 03:04:07 -0000 Resent-Date: 4 Sep 1999 03:04:07 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: howto@wallybox.cei.net Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 21:45:41 -0500 (CDT) From: "HOWTO \(from metalab\)" To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: RE: mailing list archives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/319 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > 4) CVS - i have not done anything on this. when i proposed doing so, i was > unaware of guylhem's plans. what he proposes in cooperation with VA would > do a fine job of managing the submissions. if he (and you) would like CVS > on MetaLab, we can put it up. I think we're quite a ways from CVS, but definately think that it is something that will be of great benefit and ease a lot of things to those willing to take the time to use it. > 5) metadata - we are interested in creating metadata that would allow > searching and finding and retrieval of linux documentation both on the LDP > site and mentioned there in the form of links. this would allow searching > for say an e-mail how-to in Italian for Debian produced in the past year > if done right. the idea would be to provide a template for the authors but > also to do a bit of catching up with what is already there. > http://metalab.unc.edu/linsearch/ will show you what can be done based on > the LSMs and software archives. > This could easily include metadata pointing to the OSWG materials too. I'm sure no one will disagree with the advantages of searching. Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id NAA27619 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 13:05:21 +1000 Received: (qmail 934 invoked by uid 38); 4 Sep 1999 03:05:14 -0000 Resent-Date: 4 Sep 1999 03:05:14 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: scot@wilcoxon.org Sender: sewilco@wilcoxon.org Message-ID: <37D08C46.E7F9C7C4@wilcoxon.org> Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 22:04:38 -0500 From: "Scot E. Wilcoxon" Organization: self X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.2 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Should we split mini HOWTOs? References: <199909032257.IAA26533@albert.animats.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Old-Return-Path: Resent-Message-ID: <87bbRC.A.eO.qxI03@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/320 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > This confuses my original understanding of what HOWTO documents were > supposed to be and how they were differentiated from the Guides. The > HOWTO documents are meant to be step-by-step instructions I thought. It depends upon the situation. I created one early version of the Linux Zip Drive HOWTO. It was partly FAQ, partly step-by-step, and partly references to the proper terminology for more general things (so those who needed to learn about things such as SCSI terminators would have some idea what to look at). It was later merged with the similar document by the creator of the parallel Zip driver. In this case, it was really a FAQ which grew. > What we probably need is a document that describes the major > differences between the major distributions ... covering the matters > that commonly cause HOWTO authors to pull their hair out like how the > rc files work, and versions of libc in use etc. For something like that, I'd suggest one document with chapters for variants. The chapters can stand alone, yet have necessary references to details and generalities elsewhere. Then people can design the skeleton documents and others will plug in the details with which they are more familiar. This would encourage HOWTOs to grow into more inclusive documents when needed, yet step-by-step chapters should be available for detailed guidance. I'm using the Linuxdoc DTD and see two problems: Section markers and depth sensitive, and no cross-file documents. If there were a type of marker which required and would track the current nesting depth, and a for merging several files into one document, then it's easier to build a document in pieces and assemble them. (Yes, I recognize that Linuxdoc is a subset of tools which probably have such abilities..I just haven't learned those ML incantations yet) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id NAA27702 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 13:23:43 +1000 Received: (qmail 9244 invoked by uid 38); 4 Sep 1999 03:23:35 -0000 Resent-Date: 4 Sep 1999 03:23:35 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 22:05:09 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: kinda off topic In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/321 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Hello All, I'm not enjoying the new list much b/c I can't get procmail to easily dump all the ldp email to its own folder. Is anyone using procmail and not having a problem? If so, I'd love the recipe. It just makes it really hard when mail destined for one of the LDP list(s) is destined for it's own folder, but never makes it there and then I have to go through tons of email trying to find only the LDP related email. Any help or assistance is appreciated. Sorry for the off-topic posting. Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id QAA28611 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 16:25:34 +1000 Received: (qmail 32493 invoked by uid 38); 4 Sep 1999 06:23:46 -0000 Resent-Date: 4 Sep 1999 06:23:46 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: poet@linuxports.com Message-Id: <199909040631.XAA18013@crazypenguins.commandprompt.com> From: "{poet}" Organization: CommandPrompt Software To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 23:18:32 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: LDP Proposal Reply-to: poet@linuxports.com Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/322 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Hello, I have released another version (yes again) of the LDP proposal I have been working on. This one is a bit unique as it eliminates the board of reviewers, instead it just references the LDP members. I have removed the Arbitrators and the Chairman which has been replaced with specific coordinators and the Leader. It is an interesting change and I would like feedback on it. Poet Joshua D. Drake Development in Real Time LinuxPorts - http://www.linuxports.com LDP - Howto Co-Coordinator Consultants VAR Commercial Net3/(4) WWW/Intranet -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id BAA31045 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 01:42:02 +1000 Received: (qmail 6984 invoked by uid 38); 4 Sep 1999 15:41:53 -0000 Resent-Date: 4 Sep 1999 15:41:53 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: scot@wilcoxon.org Sender: sewilco@wilcoxon.org Message-ID: <37D13DA1.3985809A@wilcoxon.org> Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 10:41:21 -0500 From: "Scot E. Wilcoxon" Organization: self X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.2 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: LDP Proposal References: <199909040631.XAA18013@crazypenguins.commandprompt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Old-Return-Path: Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/326 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org {poet} wrote: > I have released another version (yes again) of the LDP proposal I have been > working on. That is nice. I don't see it at linuxports.com, nor linuxdoc.org, nor as an attachment to your announcement. Wherever you released it, it did not travel far. That's all the feedback I can give at the moment. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0003 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id CAA31347 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 02:50:36 +1000 Received: (qmail 2784 invoked by uid 38); 4 Sep 1999 16:50:29 -0000 Resent-Date: 4 Sep 1999 16:50:29 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: poet@linuxports.com Message-Id: <199909041658.JAA19955@crazypenguins.commandprompt.com> From: "{poet}" Organization: CommandPrompt Software To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 09:45:39 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: LDP Proposal {Location} Reply-to: poet@linuxports.com Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Resent-Message-ID: <8C5Dy.A.Xr.U3U03@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/327 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org http://www.linuxports.com/ldp.htm Development in Real Time LinuxPorts - http://www.linuxports.com LDP - Howto Co-Coordinator Consultants VAR Commercial Net3/(4) WWW/Intranet -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0003 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id DAA31562 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 03:38:47 +1000 Received: (qmail 2064 invoked by uid 38); 4 Sep 1999 17:35:50 -0000 Resent-Date: 4 Sep 1999 17:35:50 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: bf347@lafn.org Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 10:28:59 -0700 Message-Id: <199909041728.AA07264@lafn.org> From: bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer) To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: HOWTOs: QC, contents, & minis Reply-To: bf347@lafn.org Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/328 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Although the idea of QC is a good one, it's important that it not significantly delay the uploading of HOWTOs for public distribution. (via the mirror sites and in various formats). If a HOWTO is in a Beta directory in sgml format I think that relatively few people will actually use it. Thus I think that QC must be fast and take only about a day or two. Step 1 of QC should be to automatically run sgml2txt, etc. on it to see if there are errors. The sender should be automatically notified. Lars had this in operation and I used it. One thing wrong was that the sgml2info reported a few "errors" that were not really errors. But right now we don't use sgml2info so there's no problem now. To speed QC one may do a "sampled" QC where only a few samples of the work are checked. If these are OK then it passes. There needs to be times limit so that HOWTOs do not languish for weeks in a Beta Directory. I would suggest that this limit be 24 hours for updates and 4 days for new submissions. If QC doesn't happen within these time limits the HOWTO should be automatically uploaded anyway. A new submission that wasn't checked would be labelled as Beta. This should hopefully seldom happen if we have QC well covered. Once a HOWTO (or update) has been released, QC should not end. More checking is likely needed. Much of the feedback will come from readers of the HOWTO. While we could try to have people review HOWTOs, assign them grades for accuracy, clearness, completeness, etc. I think that such time could be more profitably used for improving the HOWTOs rather than critically reviewing them. One could maintain a file (archive) of reader comments for each HOWTO but this could be abused. Someone with a poor HOWTO might get friends to send in undeserved praise, while enemies of someone with a great HOWTO could bombard it with unjustified criticism. Thus you really need a moderator for such "review" pages and right now we're too shorthanded to do it. Now some comments re the content of HOWTOs. While step-by-step instructions may be OK for installation (of hardware/software) they are not very good for troubleshooting. To do effective troubleshooting one needs to understand what the hardware and software does. What step to do next in troubleshooting depends on all clues one has re the situation. Evaluation of what all the clues might imply depends on an understanding of how it works. Thus a HOWTO should explain "How it Works". It may also discuss the pros and cons of various options. This is true even for a mini-HOWTO. The HOWTO is thus a document with info designed to help you figure out how to do it. It's not necessarily step-by-step instruction. I think we should keep the mini-HOWTOs but some could become full HOWTOs. People are used to the current classification and it shouldn't be changed without compelling reasons. David Lawyer -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0003 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id EAA31686 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 04:04:42 +1000 Received: (qmail 25821 invoked by uid 38); 4 Sep 1999 18:04:34 -0000 Resent-Date: 4 Sep 1999 18:04:34 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: bf347@lafn.org Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 11:04:20 -0700 Message-Id: <199909041804.AA11420@lafn.org> From: bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer) To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Howto submission bounces Reply-To: bf347@lafn.org Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/329 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org I sent howto updates to: submit-howto@lists.linuxdoc.org and it bounced. So I'm now trying the old address: linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id AAA18154 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 00:54:58 +1000 Received: (qmail 23054 invoked by uid 38); 5 Sep 1999 14:54:48 -0000 Resent-Date: 5 Sep 1999 14:54:48 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 09:37:02 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: mini's In-Reply-To: <199909050237.MAA13919@albert.animats.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/336 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > > Mini refers to size, while we should refer to specificity > > I've always interpreted 'mini' to be talking about scope rather than > size. Actually it's a combination of the 2. More over, the mini-HOWTOs are exist b/c they originated more or less as a "quick and dirty" to get something accomplished. Someone took the time to figure out how to set something up and took notes. Chances are it's not the most popular thing to do, but then again others would probably like to know how it could be accomplished so it gets published. Size does play a part, but it's certainly not the only thing and doesn't necessarily hold the most "weight" of a mini-HOWTO. Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/HOWTO/ tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id BAA18316 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 01:29:42 +1000 Received: (qmail 5668 invoked by uid 38); 5 Sep 1999 15:29:32 -0000 Resent-Date: 5 Sep 1999 15:29:32 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 10:11:51 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: HOWTOs: QC, contents, & minis In-Reply-To: <199909041728.AA07264@lafn.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/337 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > Although the idea of QC is a good one, it's important that it not > significantly delay the uploading of HOWTOs for public distribution. > (via the mirror sites and in various formats). If a HOWTO is in a > Beta directory in sgml format I think that relatively few people will > actually use it. I will subscribe to the list and will still receive submissions. I think the best thing to do at this point is agree on a submission format and keyword (perhaps in the subject). They will be processed autmoatically if all the criteria is met. *I* would like to know if 1 or 2 format(s) can be agreed upon. I think this would help the process tremendously. > Thus I think that QC must be fast and take only about a day or two. > Step 1 of QC should be to automatically run sgml2txt, etc. on it to > see if there are errors. The sender should be automatically notified. > Lars had this in operation and I used it. One thing wrong was that > the sgml2info reported a few "errors" that were not really errors. > But right now we don't use sgml2info so there's no problem now. I've got pretty much the same set up in place now. > Once a HOWTO (or update) has been released, QC should not end. More > checking is likely needed. Much of the feedback will come from > readers of the HOWTO. While we could try to have people review > HOWTOs, assign them grades for accuracy, clearness, completeness, > etc. I think that such time could be more profitably used for > improving the HOWTOs rather than critically reviewing them. Would it be worthwhile to have a new email address set up for feedback regarding HOWTOs, mini's, FAQ's, etc. For the QC mentioned above? And even asking each author to add a link to that email at the end or beginning of the doc (the location could be discussed)? I see this as a better alternative than one email address/link on the HOWTO-INDEX, etc. > One could maintain a file (archive) of reader comments for each HOWTO > but this could be abused. Someone with a poor HOWTO might get friends > to send in undeserved praise, while enemies of someone with a great > HOWTO could bombard it with unjustified criticism. Thus you really > need a moderator for such "review" pages and right now we're too > shorthanded to do it. I think you're giving others far too much credit, or maybe selling them far to short to believe this would actually take place. > I think we should keep the mini-HOWTOs but some could become full > HOWTOs. People are used to the current classification and it > shouldn't be changed without compelling reasons. Removing mini-HOWTOs just doesn't make sense to me. I've been thinking about this for quite some time, and even brought up the issue MANY months ago, and there was never really much said. To remove the mini-HOWTOs is doing a dis-service (sp?) to the Linux community in my opinion. There are other options than to remove them, and yes I understand that we're not talking of deleting them. Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/HOWTO tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0013 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id BAA18331 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 01:31:49 +1000 Received: (qmail 6974 invoked by uid 38); 5 Sep 1999 15:31:42 -0000 Resent-Date: 5 Sep 1999 15:31:42 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 10:14:03 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Howto submission bounces In-Reply-To: <199909041804.AA11420@lafn.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/338 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > I sent howto updates to: submit-howto@lists.linuxdoc.org and it bounced. > So I'm now trying the old address: linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu I conacted the list maintainer(s) a week ago and there has been no creation of the submit-howto list and evidently no knowledge of it. Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/HOWTO tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id EAA19470 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 04:28:57 +1000 Received: (qmail 31912 invoked by uid 38); 5 Sep 1999 18:28:50 -0000 Resent-Date: 5 Sep 1999 18:28:50 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: guylhem@victis.oeil.qc.ca Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 20:09:45 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: HOWTOs: QC, contents, & minis Message-ID: <19990905200945.A479@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: <199909041728.AA07264@lafn.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=a8Wt8u1KmwUX3Y2C; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <199909041728.AA07264@lafn.org>; from David Lawyer on Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 10:28:59AM -0700 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/340 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org --a8Wt8u1KmwUX3Y2C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 10:28:59AM -0700, David Lawyer wrote: > Directory. I would suggest that this limit be 24 hours for updates > and 4 days for new submissions. If QC doesn't happen within these > time limits the HOWTO should be automatically uploaded anyway. A new I think it will take longer for updates, about 2 days. The 1 day limit for updates seems impossible to keep. > One could maintain a file (archive) of reader comments for each HOWTO > but this could be abused. Someone with a poor HOWTO might get friends > to send in undeserved praise, while enemies of someone with a great > HOWTO could bombard it with unjustified criticism. Thus you really > need a moderator for such "review" pages and right now we're too > shorthanded to do it. Feedback to the authors is authors privacy, while authors should use it to update the howto by themselves, I think we have no right to force them. For example, the feedback may be inaccurate or off topic (I've been asked for more information about GSM modems... in the UUCP HOWTO !) > Now some comments re the content of HOWTOs. While step-by-step > instructions may be OK for installation (of hardware/software) they > are not very good for troubleshooting. To do effective You're right, however each HOWTO should have step-by-step instructions somewhere, it mustn't be just theory. > I think we should keep the mini-HOWTOs but some could become full > HOWTOs. People are used to the current classification and it > shouldn't be changed without compelling reasons. I'll submit a list of the mini HOWTOs which could become HOWTOs. --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Anywhere/Partout: guylhem-pager \@/ oeil.qc.ca --a8Wt8u1KmwUX3Y2C Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN9Kx6d+QeWug/qfFAQFz3QP/YHsyxcnv0YhSTRby7G5Q4ze/UgBbYgre n5A6UdfbcY6nokDqPGBcx2xWDbYcH3gVvUMRn3LcBK/k63Kqh3PkV4XANFH5RVIj uq9Zr0HBMKCbtxELy+zcXMsiUvNWPNORSbUc/5zjVMLNWnowSoZF0OUlvMP5MCmh GCX+rSKelcM= =DVUN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --a8Wt8u1KmwUX3Y2C-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id PAA23719 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:53:23 +1000 Received: (qmail 23022 invoked by uid 38); 6 Sep 1999 05:53:04 -0000 Resent-Date: 6 Sep 1999 05:53:04 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 00:35:26 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: submitting docs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/343 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Hi, I tried to contact the one who will be assisting with the QC of the HOWTOs last week, but have yet to get a response. I just wanted to introduce myself and to kind of get together on how we're going to handle the submission of docs, and getting them from ldp-submit@* to me. One suggestion was to use a subject or keyword(s) in the body to designate a doc as being passed through the QC with flying colors. (suggestions on what to use to show that it's passed are welcomed). I also asked about the type of submissions we'd like to accept. This being the format that the docs are submitted in (eg. uuencoded and or plain text). Is one or the other restricting things too much? I suppose it wouldn't matter how they're submitted to ldp-submit, but I'd like to think that asking for one format or the other would *not* be asking too much. As for how they reach me, I'd like to see it simply in plain text format, although I could live with uuencoded docs or anything else for that matter, but this would be nice. Any and all feedback on this would be very much welcomed at this time. ;) Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/HOWTO tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id LAA29397 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 11:17:18 +1000 Received: (qmail 6713 invoked by uid 38); 7 Sep 1999 01:16:37 -0000 Resent-Date: 7 Sep 1999 01:16:37 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: bf347@lafn.org Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 18:16:21 -0700 Message-Id: <199909070116.AA20189@lafn.org> From: bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer) To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: HOWTOs: QC, contents, & minis Reply-To: bf347@lafn.org Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/346 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org David Lawyer wrote >> Once a HOWTO (or update) has been released, QC should not end. More >> checking is likely needed. Much of the feedback will come from >> readers of the HOWTO. While we could try to have people review >> HOWTOs, assign them grades for accuracy, clearness, completeness, >> etc. I think that such time could be more profitably used for >> improving the HOWTOs rather than critically reviewing them. Tim Bynum responds: >Would it be worthwhile to have a new email address set up for feedback >regarding HOWTOs, mini's, FAQ's, etc. For the QC mentioned above? And >even asking each author to add a link to that email at the end or >beginning of the doc (the location could be discussed)? I see this as a >better alternative than one email address/link on the HOWTO-INDEX, etc. Feedback needs to go directly to the author/maintainer. All howtos should have the email of the author/maintainer for this purpose. But one may state in the howto what type of questions one will/will not answer. However, feedback that points out typos, errors, better ways of doing something, lack of clarity, etc. should always be welcome. Someone once wrote me threatening to complain to the howto coordnatator if he did not hear from me within a week or so. There are some cases where Howto users get no response from the maintainer. I think that in the HOWTO-INDEX or the like it could be a noted that if you are pointing out a defficiency in a HOWTO and get no response, then you could complain to ... (the coordinator or someone else willing to take on this job). Then the maintainer would be contacted by that person with the comments from the howto-user attached. If the maintainer can't be contacted it looks like the howto isn't being maintained. In the HOWTO-INDEX it could also suggest putting the title of the HOWTO as the first word of the subject in correspondence re howtos. This would make it easy to sort. There could also be a list of maintainers that are temporarily not available (on vacation, a business trip, ill, etc.). Then if a howto-reader can't make contact with the maintainer he could check this list first. David Lawyer -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id LAA29468 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 11:29:33 +1000 Received: (qmail 20558 invoked by uid 38); 7 Sep 1999 01:29:26 -0000 Resent-Date: 7 Sep 1999 01:29:26 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: yan@mail.storm.ca Message-Id: <199909070129.VAA08283@mail.storm.ca> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Yves Bellefeuille" To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 21:27:37 -0400 Subject: Re: HOWTOs: QC, contents, & minis Reply-to: yan@storm.ca Priority: normal In-reply-to: <199909070116.AA20189@lafn.org> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/347 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer) wrote: > Someone once wrote me threatening to complain to the howto > coordnatator if he did not hear from me within a week or so. I do try to reply to all messages I get regarding my Mini How-To, even if only to say "Thanks for your comments", but I think it's really out of line to threaten to complain if you don't get a reply within a week. -- Yves Bellefeuille , Ottawa, Canada Francais / English / Esperanto Maintainer, Esperanto FAQ: http://www.esperanto.net/veb/faq.html PGP key at the servers and at http://www.storm.ca/~yan/pgp.asc -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id UAA12809 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:56:31 +1000 Received: (qmail 1096 invoked by uid 38); 9 Sep 1999 10:56:12 -0000 Resent-Date: 9 Sep 1999 10:56:12 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: guylhem@terram.oeil.qc.ca Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 21:56:48 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: LDP discuss Subject: Local LDPs Message-ID: <19990908215648.B446@victis.oeil.qc.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=0IvGJv3f9h+YhkrH; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/349 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org --0IvGJv3f9h+YhkrH Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, The following local LDPs have registered : fr, es, it, de, sl, kr, id, jp, hr, sb, gk, pt, br, au We will provide them : - link on www.linuxdoc.org first page, with a little flag above (even if a language can be used by many countries, we will only add the most known flag ; however "local" is not restricted to language (for exemple au is australia), it can be a mirror with some value added like book available in this country...) - www.XX.linuxdoc.org domain - ldp-local-XX@lists.linuxdoc.org alias To set all this, please fill up the following : =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Local LDP : - site : - mailing list : - leader email : =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D For exemple : Local LDP : pt (portuguese) - site : http://www.poli.org - mailing list : I-don-t-know@poli.org - leader : Alfredo Palace --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Anywhere/Partout: guylhem-pager \@/ oeil.qc.ca --0IvGJv3f9h+YhkrH Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN9a/gN+QeWug/qfFAQGqPAQAoF0EeN23d/xx8APyCiPABCN+kAQ2mbX/ 2Y+phAw95Zb78J4gRAuNuMTXoFdjQk1KAsOKIHSVEemyXMMsNtfc5DSsGtf1g0Qa n30hqXzowbKPmd4Y3QyVIMMkzNcssJi0myiPZueJ3P0LOYJYJ/hnEzUrCuyZlAIl gA5RFLyYiyI= =UGv+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --0IvGJv3f9h+YhkrH-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id VAA13057 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 21:48:09 +1000 Received: (qmail 28535 invoked by uid 38); 9 Sep 1999 11:47:59 -0000 Resent-Date: 9 Sep 1999 11:47:59 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: psj@mustec.eu.org Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:42:45 +0100 (GMT) From: P Jenner To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Gathering new HOWTOs? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/351 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Given there are more and more LDP-style HOWTOs appearing which are not yet included on the LDP site (eg framebuffer, new firewall), is anyone connected with the LDP actively contacting the authors of these HOWTOs and inviting them to submit them? If not is this an advisable thing for a few of us to do? Or would something like a "how to contribute" web page with a submission address on the LDP site be a good idea? Comments? Paul ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul S Jenner GNU/Linux Advocate E-mail: psj@mustec.eu.org WWW: http://www.mustec.eu.org/~psj/ UNSOLICITED COMMERCIAL E-MAIL IS NOT WELCOME AT THIS ADDRESS ----------------------------------------------------------------------- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id EAA14888 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 04:34:35 +1000 Received: (qmail 5124 invoked by uid 38); 9 Sep 1999 18:33:20 -0000 Resent-Date: 9 Sep 1999 18:33:20 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: nakano@surf.ap.seikei.ac.jp Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 03:33:07 +0900 Message-Id: <199909091833.DAA00983@surf.ap.seikei.ac.jp> From: NAKANO Takeo To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Local LDPs In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 8 Sep 1999 21:56:48 +0200". <19990908215648.B446@victis.oeil.qc.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Mailer: mnews [version 1.21PL4] 1998-06/01(Mon) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/354 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Hello, I'm a co-worker of Fukushima-san at JF Project in Japan, and will work as a liaison for some time :-) In article <19990908215648.B446@victis.oeil.qc.ca> guylhem@oeil.qc.ca writes: > We will provide them : > - link on www.linuxdoc.org first page, with a little flag above (even > if a language can be used by many countries, we will only add the most > known flag ; however "local" is not restricted to language (for exemple > au is australia), it can be a mirror with some value added like book > available in this country...) > - www.XX.linuxdoc.org domain > - ldp-local-XX@lists.linuxdoc.org alias > > To set all this, please fill up the following : ========================================= Local LDP : jp (Japan) or ja (Japanese) *1 - site : http://www.linux.or.jp/JF/ *2 - mailing list : JF@linux.or.jp - leader email : nakano@apm.seikei.ac.jp ========================================= *1: please use "ja", if you prefer language. *2: if dns is also available, please let the www.jp.linuxdoc.org be: riccia.linux.or.jp [210.251.121.210] Cheers, -- // NAKANO, Takeo // Appl. Phys., Engr. SEIKEI Univ. // E-mail : nakano@apm.seikei.ac.jp // http://surf.ap.seikei.ac.jp/~nakano/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id IAA16041 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:13:30 +1000 Received: (qmail 10875 invoked by uid 38); 9 Sep 1999 22:13:19 -0000 Resent-Date: 9 Sep 1999 22:13:19 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: guylhem@terram.oeil.qc.ca Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:12:09 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: LDP discuss Subject: QC draft Message-ID: <19990910001209.A20181@victis.oeil.qc.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=3V7upXqbjpZ4EhLz; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/356 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org --3V7upXqbjpZ4EhLz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here's Alessandro work on QC. I think we could use it as "QC manifesto" ****************************** There are two versions: the first includes the rationales behind any paragraph and the second is just the rules (for people with little time to read). Proposal for a Quality Control Group Teams of the group are volunteers and being part of the group doesn't reequire devoting any predefined amount of work to the QC needs. People interested in being part of the QC group must withstand approval of the LDP leader, upon presentation of a resume or other self-supporting evicence. (Rationale: the quality-control group must be quality-controlled as well; we must prevent unfair people to enter the QC group in order to damage the LDP. Also, we must prevent incompetent people to judge LDP authors, even if in good faith, as that would damage the LDP anyways). The QC people is subscribed to a closed mailing list. Every new LDP document is forwarded to the list in source form, maybe by having the list itself as a subscriber of ldp-submit. When a QC member wants to review a document, the member must express this intention by sending a "lock" message to the list, to inform other reviwers that the document is already taken. In case of multiple replies, the first one is effective (according the ID of the message within the mailing list), unless the reviewers agree differently via private email. (Rationale: the list must be kept low-traffic: we don't need another place for discussion; on the other hand all reviewers should have direct access to reviewable material without human intervention). Submitted documents appear immediately in a "beta" area in the LDP ftp site, maybe only in source form (sgml or whatever is agreed upon). The QC group should approve the new document within one week; if no QC approval arrives within a week, the document is moved to the normal ftp areas anyway, like any "normal" document. (Rationale: the information must be made availabe as soon as possible to the general public, and the QC group cannot be allowed to slow release of the documentation. The "beta" area allows information-eager people to access to the latest and greatest independent of the QC week and the possible extra delay before the document is moved to its proper place. Compiling and mirroring all the output formats for those few people would be an unneedeed waste of network resources). The reviewer should sort any problem directly with the author, who is prepared to be be responsive during the QC week. If an agreement can not be reached, the document is either reviewed by another QC member (releasing the lock on the QC list and allowing anothere week of "beta" status) or the whole question is brought to the LDP leader or HOWTO maintainer. (Rationale: personal criticism should not be performed in public and the issues can usually sorted out friendly. Sometimes, however, the author and reviewer may not come to an agreement for a variety of reasons, including character differences; in this case a second chance must be allowed). The LDP leader and HOWTO maintainer are allowed to refuse a document, if it was considered unacceptable by at least two QC people. This does not prevent the author for releasing the document through other means, it just won't be distributed as part of the LDP and using the LDP resources. (Rationale: a negative judgement doesn't deny anyone the right to speak, and this must be stated clearly before we are called fascists or anything similar). Documents that passed QC review will carry the QC note just after the title. A document that gets no QC review within the allowed time will be part of the LDP without the QC mark. The QC approval will refer to a specific version of the document, and an unreviewed release will still carry its QC approval for the last version that was approved. (Rationale: the readership must benefit from QC, thus being warned whenever a document has been reviewed and when it didn't. On the other hand, the QC group can feel less compelled to review a new revision of a document that was already QC'd but the readership must know about that and adapt their confidence in the document accordingly). ---------------------------------------- Proposal for a Quality Control Group Teams of the group are volunteers and being part of the group doesn't reequire devoting any predefined amount of work to the QC needs. People interested in being part of the QC group must withstand approval of the LDP leader, upon presentation of a resume or other self-supporting evicence. The QC people is subscribed to a closed mailing list. Every new LDP document is forwarded to the list in source form, maybe by having the list itself as a subscriber of ldp-submit. When a QC member wants to review a document, the member must express this intention by sending a "lock" message to the list, to inform other reviwers that the document is already taken. In case of multiple replies, the first one is effective (according the ID of the message within the mailing list), unless the reviewers agree differently via private email. Submitted documents appear immediately in a "beta" area in the LDP ftp site, maybe only in source form (sgml or whatever is agreed upon). The QC group should approve the new document within one week; if no QC approval arrives within a week, the document is moved to the normal ftp areas anyway, like any "normal" document. The reviewer should sort any problem directly with the author, who is prepared to be be responsive during the QC week. If an agreement can not be reached, the document is either reviewed by another QC member (releasing the lock on the QC list and allowing anothere week of "beta" status) or the whole question is brought to the LDP leader or HOWTO maintainer. The LDP leader and HOWTO maintainer are allowed to refuse a document, if it was considered unacceptable by at least two QC people. This does not prevent the author for releasing the document through other means, it just won't be distributed as part of the LDP and using the LDP resources. Documents that passed QC review will carry the QC note just after the title. A document that gets no QC review within the allowed time will be part of the LDP without the QC mark. The QC approval will refer to a specific version of the document, and an unreviewed release will still carry its QC approval for the last version that was approved. --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Anywhere/Partout: guylhem-pager \@/ oeil.qc.ca --3V7upXqbjpZ4EhLz Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN9gwud+QeWug/qfFAQG42QP+LDa5+xXmPVzNWhFzSC+eAPQ6Q7Y9he13 On5uF1kUoU5UpU6sSeGPO3D1GmRO+2XQWr/mILtxH/Ejfjl3+z4KcN9GuTZH7Rov pG0Ams+ifbmKHZD1Oj1ZlqxQqLCQOQ/6R1bKa0nCBacFUmkZsCFUtK2JA5ev23FB 5qLuyDpBZsI= =9bWa -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --3V7upXqbjpZ4EhLz-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id PAA17974 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:20:23 +1000 Received: (qmail 31015 invoked by uid 38); 10 Sep 1999 05:17:44 -0000 Resent-Date: 10 Sep 1999 05:17:44 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: rubini@morgana.systemy.it Message-ID: <19990910071710.62159@morgana.systemy.it> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 07:17:10 +0200 From: Alessandro Rubini To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: QC draft Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1 Resent-Message-ID: <4ozzmB.A.akH.4RJ23@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/357 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > I think we could use it as "QC manifesto" Please first get some feedback (and ispell it :) > not prevent the author for releasing the document through other means, ^^^ Oops. Please check my language too... -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id WAA19938 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:45:47 +1000 Received: (qmail 17364 invoked by uid 38); 10 Sep 1999 12:43:23 -0000 Resent-Date: 10 Sep 1999 12:43:23 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: rubini@morgana.systemy.it Message-ID: <19990910144243.07150@morgana.systemy.it> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:42:43 +0200 From: Alessandro Rubini To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: QC draft Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/360 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > However I am slightly worried about how the implementation of the > mainifesto may impact community quality control. Ok, this is about the part that I left behind in the draft, i.e.: "why do we need QC". I assumed there was consensus about that, but it looks like some explanation in needed. Please note that I am not the one who suggested to have a QC group, however I support the idea based on relevant errors I've seen in the technical press (some with no QC staff). > whatever QC exists within the LDP organisation the best QC is the > community. Yes, but this needs some control. People who trusts the LDP expects to find correct information in the documents; if the information is inaccurate or plain wrong, the LDP will just crash and nobody will trust it any more (read: a lot of work gets lost). Every successfull project (I refer here to free sw/docs) has some sort of control; be it a person or a group. The simplest example is the kernel: when you get the official Linux kernel you know that Linus approved it, and Linus *refuses* a lot of the patches he gets (thus, he's a QC entity). For the LDP to be successfull we need the same kind of control: bad contributions must be refused and mid-good stuff must be sent back to the author for making it better. We just can't allow a crowd of newcomers to flood the LDP with low-quality material, as it will just lower the social role of the LDP as a whole. Please note that *nobody* is preventing anyone in the community from releasing other documents through other means (I also wrote this in the draft), we just need to protect the brand of the LDP. Since we can't ask Tim nor Guy to check every document that they get, we need to set up a group of people to split the workload. > Therefore community additions and modifications should > be given as much weight and consideration as official QC ones, I'm sorry, I don't understand this point. As usual, additions and modifications pass through the maintainer, unless someone wants to fork document maintainance (which is generally considered a practice to avoid whenever possible). > such community submissions should be facilitated and encouraged as > they are so successfully with Open Source code Sure. And that's why we can't rely on one or two people to check it all in order to guarantee the LDP brand. > if QC modifications are consistently rejected by the community then > that community should be respected - after all that is who we do > this for. Once again, I didn't understand. Oh, and I forgot to state that the LDP leader should be able to revoke a QC member with no prior notice. This is important, as one with a good resume could be accepted in QC and then boycott things out. /alessandro -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id CAA20982 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 02:38:57 +1000 Received: (qmail 2954 invoked by uid 38); 10 Sep 1999 16:38:44 -0000 Resent-Date: 10 Sep 1999 16:38:44 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: guylhem@terram.oeil.qc.ca Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:41:22 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: LDP discuss Subject: Re: Local LDPs Message-ID: <19990910134122.B2470@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: <19990908215648.B446@victis.oeil.qc.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="dTy3Mrz/UPE2dbVg"; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <19990908215648.B446@victis.oeil.qc.ca>; from Guylhem Aznar on Wed, Sep 08, 1999 at 09:56:48PM +0200 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/361 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org --dTy3Mrz/UPE2dbVg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Sep 08, 1999 at 09:56:48PM +0200, Guylhem Aznar wrote: > The following local LDPs have registered : > fr, es, it, de, sl, kr, id, jp, hr, sb, gk, pt, br, au it, de, sl, kr, hr, sb, gk, br, au should fill in the form. --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Anywhere/Partout: guylhem-pager \@/ oeil.qc.ca --dTy3Mrz/UPE2dbVg Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN9juYt+QeWug/qfFAQEEwAP5AetqKOr4NY8AWnLB8mfIMMfclnVOAJI7 9WHe8J31nD/c0pzjXUxVgszQYd2MVGxqRvWs6Wp+KoPN2DtD1SaECcKQEj3STYiN sBfHF8KiviEwplCY0wd9Ep4+zAUL+oSpA4k+P3N+CVgOI4FomsoH4hREcea1SibJ 6NjplH/WJfg= =y5my -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --dTy3Mrz/UPE2dbVg-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id DAA21310 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 03:53:57 +1000 Received: (qmail 3795 invoked by uid 38); 10 Sep 1999 17:53:48 -0000 Resent-Date: 10 Sep 1999 17:53:48 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: poet@linuxports.com Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:03:16 -0700 (PDT) From: "Mr. Poet" X-Sender: jd@crazypenguins.commandprompt.com To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Let the war begin Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/362 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org I have posted updated to http://www.linuxdoc.org If people have problems, lets keep it civil... Make suggestions I am all ears. Poet Development in Real Time LinuxPorts - http://www.linuxports.com LDP - http://www.linuxdoc.org LDP - Howto Co-Coordinator Consultants - VAR - Commercial - Networking - WWW/Intranet -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id FAA21696 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 05:10:28 +1000 Received: (qmail 20527 invoked by uid 38); 10 Sep 1999 19:07:24 -0000 Resent-Date: 10 Sep 1999 19:07:24 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: psj@mustec.eu.org Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:01:43 +0100 (GMT) From: P Jenner To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: translation issue for web site In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/371 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Perhaps an interesting issue for the LDP as a whole arose out of a discussion I had with Mr. Poet about translations and the LDP web site. A potted version of my point is: On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, P Jenner wrote: > If I in the UK want the Spanish translation I do not really want to > use the Spanish mirror. I want the Spanish translation which is > mirrored in the UK. In other words I want: > http://www.uk.linuxdoc.org/es/ My argument is that all translations should also be mirrored in each country so that non-native speakers or others who for some reason use the mirror should have full access. My suggestion was that: http://www.XX.linuxdoc.org/YY/ should be a mirror of translation YY in all countries XX. Comments? Paul ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul S Jenner GNU/Linux Advocate E-mail: psj@mustec.eu.org WWW: http://www.mustec.eu.org/~psj/ UNSOLICITED COMMERCIAL E-MAIL IS NOT WELCOME AT THIS ADDRESS ----------------------------------------------------------------------- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id FAA21852 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 05:38:02 +1000 Received: (qmail 1613 invoked by uid 38); 10 Sep 1999 19:37:18 -0000 Resent-Date: 10 Sep 1999 19:37:17 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: poet@linuxports.com Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:46:47 -0700 (PDT) From: "Mr. Poet" X-Sender: jd@crazypenguins.commandprompt.com To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Logo Contest Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/373 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Hello, How do people feel about holding a logo contest for the LDP logo? Poet Development in Real Time LinuxPorts - http://www.linuxports.com LDP - http://www.linuxdoc.org Consultants - VAR - Commercial - Networking - WWW/Intranet -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id GAA21998 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 06:09:13 +1000 Received: (qmail 27209 invoked by uid 38); 10 Sep 1999 20:08:58 -0000 Resent-Date: 10 Sep 1999 20:08:58 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: nakano@surf.ap.seikei.ac.jp Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 05:08:50 +0900 Message-Id: <199909102008.FAA07241@surf.ap.seikei.ac.jp> From: NAKANO Takeo To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: translation issue for web site In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:01:43 +0100 (GMT)". Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Mailer: mnews [version 1.21PL4] 1998-06/01(Mon) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/374 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org In article psj@mustec.eu.org writes: > My argument is that all translations should also be mirrored in > each country so that non-native speakers or others who for some reason use > the mirror should have full access. My suggestion was that: > > http://www.XX.linuxdoc.org/YY/ > > should be a mirror of translation YY in all countries XX. > > Comments? I'm sorry if I've been misunderstanding, but www.XX.linuxdoc.org are not the "mirror sites" of www.linuxdoc.org, but the aliases for currently existing pages of local documentation projects? Making YY/s at www.linuxdoc.org is a good thing, I think. as well as mirroring them. Cheers, -- // NAKANO, Takeo // Appl. Phys., Engr. SEIKEI Univ. // E-mail : nakano@apm.seikei.ac.jp // http://surf.ap.seikei.ac.jp/~nakano/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id IAA22857 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 08:52:21 +1000 Received: (qmail 15213 invoked by uid 38); 10 Sep 1999 22:52:14 -0000 Resent-Date: 10 Sep 1999 22:52:14 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: poet@linuxports.com Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:01:49 -0700 (PDT) From: "Mr. Poet" X-Sender: jd@crazypenguins.commandprompt.com To: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Subject: Kernel Hackers Guide Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/378 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Hello, Anybody have a copy of this? Redhat has taken it down. Thus I have taken it off the of the LDP website until we find a copy :) Poet Development in Real Time LinuxPorts - http://www.linuxports.com LDP - http://www.linuxdoc.org Consultants - VAR - Commercial - Networking - WWW/Intranet -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id LAA23619 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 11:34:40 +1000 Received: (qmail 32604 invoked by uid 38); 11 Sep 1999 01:34:33 -0000 Resent-Date: 11 Sep 1999 01:34:33 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:19:35 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim To: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: Kernel Hackers Guide In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/380 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Poet, check out: ftp://wallybox.cei.net/pub/Linux/khg.tar.gz This was something I picked up some time ago awaiting the final release. I think this may have even been "published", or at least was its initial intent. I've got the original KHG lying around if you want it. Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/HOWTO tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id SAA25392 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 18:15:56 +1000 Received: (qmail 6586 invoked by uid 38); 11 Sep 1999 08:15:49 -0000 Resent-Date: 11 Sep 1999 08:15:49 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: scot@wilcoxon.org Sender: sewilco@wilcoxon.org Message-ID: <37DA0F92.BE34D862@wilcoxon.org> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 03:15:14 -0500 From: "Scot E. Wilcoxon" Organization: self X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.2 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Logo Contest References: <37D9FDBC.FD7BA4BB@tsai.es> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Old-Return-Path: Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/384 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > At Lucas we have a logo based on a work of Picasso about "Don Quixote". > Picasso and Cervantes are very well world artists. If you want, it can > be the LDP logo. It's cute, but it almost certainly is protected by the Picasso heirs' copyright. http://builder.cnet.com/Business/Law/ss08a.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id TAA25731 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:30:43 +1000 Received: (qmail 23538 invoked by uid 38); 11 Sep 1999 09:30:35 -0000 Resent-Date: 11 Sep 1999 09:30:35 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: nakano@surf.ap.seikei.ac.jp Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 18:30:25 +0900 Message-Id: <199909110930.SAA09298@surf.ap.seikei.ac.jp> From: NAKANO Takeo To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: translation issue for web site In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 11 Sep 1999 03:33:04 +0200". <19990911033304.B27944@victis.oeil.qc.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Mailer: mnews [version 1.21PL4] 1998-06/01(Mon) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/386 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org In article <19990911033304.B27944@victis.oeil.qc.ca> guylhem@oeil.qc.ca writes: > > www.XX.linuxdoc.org are not the "mirror sites" of > > www.linuxdoc.org, but the aliases for currently > > existing pages of local documentation projects? > > That's right. > > We're discussing the possibility of adding a mirror to each local LDP > site. OK, so you mean for example, let www.ja.linuxdoc.org/us/ point the original LDP site, right? :-) I said "mirroring the local ldps is a good thing" in the previous post, but come to think that the cost of page mirror is not worth its usage, having read the following Hugo's opinion: In article Hugo.van.der.Kooij@caiw.nl writes: > However in such a case the webmaster should redirect to the proper place. > > This would mean that sites having say 10 hits per month on a certain > language that takes up multi megabytes of files would not have to carry > along a lot of slack. Agree. FYI, current ja site has about 50 Mbytes. Assuming the other local ldps also have comparable bytes, it's not good in C/P mirroring them all over the world. We already have compressed translations in every FTP mirrors. It should be enough for most people, if he/she has WWW access to original sites with FTP access to the nearest mirror. > The use of proper redirection should be mandatory in case a certain > language is not mirrored. [snip] > So the webmaster decides to redirect hits to http://www.nl.linux.org/ru/ > to http://www.ru.linux.org/ru/ If we don't mirror but redirect, it's not so valuable to prepare http://www.nl.linuxdoc.org/ja/ as URI, because http://www.ja.linuxdoc.org is much more easy to remember :-) Rather, we should concentrate on preparing good link pages in each local ldps? Cheers, -- // NAKANO, Takeo // Appl. Phys., Engr. SEIKEI Univ. // E-mail : nakano@apm.seikei.ac.jp // http://surf.ap.seikei.ac.jp/~nakano/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id EAA28130 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 04:21:47 +1000 Received: (qmail 9551 invoked by uid 38); 11 Sep 1999 18:20:46 -0000 Resent-Date: 11 Sep 1999 18:20:46 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: psj@mustec.eu.org Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:14:57 +0100 (GMT) From: P Jenner To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: translation issue for web site In-Reply-To: <199909110930.SAA09298@surf.ap.seikei.ac.jp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <3TS9vB.A.qUC.91p23@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/388 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Following comments made on this discussion: 1) The idea of having www.XX.linuxdoc.org as the translation and www.XX.linuxdoc.org/YY/ as the mirror actually amounts to the same thing as the opposite in terms of where translations are on servers. Thus nothing is lost in having www.XX.linuxdoc.org as the mirror and YY as the translation. People reading the Russian translation on the Russian mirror would still go to http://www.ru.linuxdoc.org/ru/. There are a number of good reasons for having XX as the mirror though. First it is possibly there may be mirrors which do not provide translations. www.uk.linuxdoc.org is the obvious example but they exist for all languages which are the first language for multiple ISO countries. Second people, especially Linux people, are used to using www.XX.example.org as a mirroring system, particularly in the case of the Linux kernel. People like what they are used to. 2) There is a lot of discussion about whether mirroring LDP translations would take up too much space. First if www.XX.linuxdoc.org/YY/ takes up too much space then it could be redirected at www.ZZ.linuxdoc.org/YY/ where ZZ is the nearest mirror for the YY translation. This may be security issue but it is a common WWW practice and those mirrors who do not like this system could always put a staic page at www.XX.linuxdoc.org/YY/index.html which points the user to the mirror via a link. Second it seems unlikely that if only HTML versions of translations are included on mirrors (after all that is all that is useful via the WWW) that would take up too much space. Maybe some evaluation of the space that would mean should be made? Third (and I do believe this is positive) those who volunteer to officially mirror the LDP for that entire country should try to ensure they have space on their server for the mirror. If this is not the case then they could invite others to do so. In most cases other servers would exist in the country that have space and are willing to do the mirroring. By analogy there are a number of places Linux kernel source is mirrored in each country and those mirrors vary in content. However the official ftp.XX.kernel.org mirror must carry all kernel content. Imagine the case in which a country mirror decided not to carry the development kernel for instance. Comments? Paul ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul S Jenner GNU/Linux Advocate E-mail: psj@mustec.eu.org WWW: http://www.mustec.eu.org/~psj/ UNSOLICITED COMMERCIAL E-MAIL IS NOT WELCOME AT THIS ADDRESS ----------------------------------------------------------------------- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id HAA08771 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 07:45:18 +1000 Received: (qmail 28893 invoked by uid 38); 11 Sep 1999 21:44:54 -0000 Resent-Date: 11 Sep 1999 21:44:54 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: scot@wilcoxon.org Sender: sewilco@wilcoxon.org Message-ID: <37DACD2F.EA374105@wilcoxon.org> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 16:44:15 -0500 From: "Scot E. Wilcoxon" Organization: self X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.2 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: translation issue for web site References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Old-Return-Path: Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/390 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org >... several countries have several languages. Good point. India has 407 languages according to this: http://www.sil.org/ethnologue/countries/Inda.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id CAA14243 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 02:42:06 +1000 Received: (qmail 10474 invoked by uid 38); 12 Sep 1999 16:42:00 -0000 Resent-Date: 12 Sep 1999 16:42:00 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: nakano@surf.ap.seikei.ac.jp Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:41:45 +0900 Message-Id: <199909121641.BAA13844@surf.ap.seikei.ac.jp> From: NAKANO Takeo To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: translation issue for web site In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:14:57 +0100 (GMT)". Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Mailer: mnews [version 1.21PL4] 1998-06/01(Mon) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/397 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org # Sorry, I didn't have the viewpoint of people using multiple # languages in their country (but now I do, I think :-). In article psj@mustec.eu.org writes: > 1) The idea of having www.XX.linuxdoc.org as the translation and > www.XX.linuxdoc.org/YY/ as the mirror actually amounts to the same thing > as the opposite in terms of where translations are on servers. Thus > nothing is lost in having www.XX.linuxdoc.org as the mirror and YY as the > translation. People reading the Russian translation on the Russian mirror > would still go to http://www.ru.linuxdoc.org/ru/. There are a number of > good reasons for having XX as the mirror though. How about separating the mirroring function from www.XX.linuxdoc.org? Instead, we can use mirror.XX.linuxdoc.org (or something), and... mirror.XX.linuxdoc.org/ ... mirror of www.linuxdoc.org mirror.XX.linuxdoc.org/YY/ ... mirror of www.YY.linuxdoc.org Using this rule, we can use XX as location info (e.g. country code such as "us" or "jp") and YY as language info ("en" or "ja"), and user easily can determine where they should go. Another (and maybe more important) point: I don't think all the local ldp projects afford to mirror, or even if they do, there must be some cases that they already have mirror sites in their country maintained by another group (See http://www.linuxdoc.org/mirrors.html. The latter is the case for us in Japan). The cost to make a new mirror (or integrate them) is not always low. Cheers, -- // NAKANO, Takeo // Appl. Phys., Engr. SEIKEI Univ. // E-mail : nakano@apm.seikei.ac.jp // http://surf.ap.seikei.ac.jp/~nakano/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id CAA14276 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 02:48:28 +1000 Received: (qmail 11143 invoked by uid 38); 12 Sep 1999 16:48:14 -0000 Resent-Date: 12 Sep 1999 16:48:14 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 11:34:01 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: ldp-private list Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/398 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Hello All! I have posted comments to the ldp-private list pertaining to updated docs. I have no idea how many folks are subscribed to the list, but if you are not then you will *not* see this information, which some of you may find unimportant (is that a new word?). Anyhow, it's in regards to the information that I post on my machine (http://wallybox.cei.net/~tjbynum/LDP/current-updates.html I have provided the information necessary to access this file in the past. If you don't remember what it is, then contact me personally and I'll give you the info. As always.....comments welcome! It's still not pretty/flashy, etc., but serves it purpose well....at least for no. I also have many comments regarding some of the discussions as of late, mainly in regards to QC. I will post them this evening, as personal emails that I've made lately not warranted comments yet. Times wasting and I've been accused of being a stalling point in the past, and this is one thing that I'm trying to rectify. Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/HOWTO tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id IAA16008 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 08:36:38 +1000 Received: (qmail 12017 invoked by uid 38); 12 Sep 1999 22:34:01 -0000 Resent-Date: 12 Sep 1999 22:34:01 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: poet@linuxports.com Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:41:11 -0700 (PDT) From: "Mr. Poet" X-Sender: jd@crazypenguins.commandprompt.com To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: If you are interested Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/402 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org I have updated the seach engine. If you search for things like ip-chains it actually comes up now ;) Poet LinuxPorts - http://www.linuxports.com LDP - http://www.linuxdoc.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id KAA16710 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:44:30 +1000 Received: (qmail 8245 invoked by uid 38); 13 Sep 1999 00:34:45 -0000 Resent-Date: 13 Sep 1999 00:34:45 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: psj@mustec.eu.org Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:27:39 +0100 (GMT) From: P Jenner To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: If you are interested In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/407 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Appears there are a number of options for search engines. I would strongly ask that the LDP goes with an Open Source (or Free Software) solution however and ht://Dig is available via GNU so it fits the bill. Paul ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul S Jenner GNU/Linux Advocate E-mail: psj@mustec.eu.org WWW: http://www.mustec.eu.org/~psj/ UNSOLICITED COMMERCIAL E-MAIL IS NOT WELCOME AT THIS ADDRESS ----------------------------------------------------------------------- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id LAA16800 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:02:56 +1000 Received: (qmail 2160 invoked by uid 38); 13 Sep 1999 01:02:45 -0000 Resent-Date: 13 Sep 1999 01:02:45 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:48:38 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: If you are interested In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/409 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org On Mon, 13 Sep 1999, P Jenner wrote: > > Appears there are a number of options for search engines. I would > strongly ask that the LDP goes with an Open Source (or Free Software) > solution however and ht://Dig is available via GNU so it fits the bill. I use ht://Dig and have been happy with the results. Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/HOWTO tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:39 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id OAA17764 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:35:15 +1000 Received: (qmail 27838 invoked by uid 38); 13 Sep 1999 04:35:04 -0000 Resent-Date: 13 Sep 1999 04:35:04 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 23:21:09 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Translations (to English?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <6dJsCC.A.syG.37H33@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/414 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Hi, Quick question. I can't recall any right now, but know in the past I would have very much liked it if I could have read other documents (FAQs/HOWTOs, etc.) had they been in English. Has anyone ever thought of the translation of other languages to English? I have no idea how many of the stuff that would fall under the LDP are out there with no English translations, but I'd be willing to bet that there are more than a handful. Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/HOWTO tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id OAA17796 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:40:36 +1000 Received: (qmail 31357 invoked by uid 38); 13 Sep 1999 04:40:30 -0000 Resent-Date: 13 Sep 1999 04:40:30 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: howto@wallybox.cei.net Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 23:26:37 -0500 (CDT) From: "HOWTO \(from metalab\)" To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: translation into german (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/415 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 11:51:10 +0200 From: Harm Georg Conrad To: linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu Subject: translation into german Hi, I'm interested in translating a HOWTO into the German language. Harm-Georg HarmGeorgConrad@t-online.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id PAA18041 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:33:03 +1000 Received: (qmail 19147 invoked by uid 38); 13 Sep 1999 05:32:42 -0000 Resent-Date: 13 Sep 1999 05:32:42 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 00:18:45 -0500 From: Tim Message-Id: <199909130518.AAA10324@wallybox.cei.net> To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Document Updates Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/417 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org New Updates Posted to http://wallybox.cei.net/~tjbynum/LDP/HOWTO/current-updates.html Mon Sep 13 00:18:44 CDT 1999 This message has been 'automagically' posted. Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/HOWTO tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id WAA19973 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 22:27:06 +1000 Received: (qmail 15149 invoked by uid 38); 13 Sep 1999 12:25:51 -0000 Resent-Date: 13 Sep 1999 12:25:51 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: nakano@surf.ap.seikei.ac.jp Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 21:25:43 +0900 Message-Id: <199909131225.VAA19682@surf.ap.seikei.ac.jp> From: NAKANO Takeo To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: translation issue for web site In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 12 Sep 1999 18:28:41 +0100 (GMT)". Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Mailer: mnews [version 1.21PL4] 1998-06/01(Mon) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/420 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org In article psj@mustec.eu.org writes: > > Instead, we can use mirror.XX.linuxdoc.org > > Confusing for most folks who like to prepend web resources with > www. and ftp resources with ftp. It is a bad idea to move away from > accepted practice - it is accepted practice for a reason. OK, I withdraw the previous proposal mirror.XX.linuxdoc.org. > > Another (and maybe more important) point: I don't think all the local > > ldp projects afford to mirror, or even if they do, there must be some > > cases that they already have mirror sites in their country maintained > > by another group (See http://www.linuxdoc.org/mirrors.html. The latter > > is the case for us in Japan). > > This is not really the issue we are debating (although it is > related). We are currently looking at a mirroring scheme - not a way for > local translators to be accessed. It will mostly be the case that a local > translation site is not the official mirror as you have pointed out above. > The better scheme which we debate is that official mirrors are > www.XX.linuxdoc.org and translators need not maintain any independent web > site put post translations to www.linuxdoc.org/YY/ for mirroring around > the world. Agree. # But I'm still confusing, which to be www.XX.linuxdoc.org, # XX local contents or www.linuxdoc.org... The latter may be # preferable, if contents negotiation works? The following is FYI. Various linux projects in japan share www.linux.or.jp as http;//www.linux.or.jp/(PROJNAME)/, using apache virtual hosting: ServerAdmin webmaster@linux.or.jp ServerName www.linux.or.jp DocumentRoot /home/www/root Alias /jrpm/ /home/www/jrpm/ Alias /jrpm /home/www/jrpm/ Alias /lus/ /home/www/lus/ Alias /lus /home/www/lus/ Alias /lbi/ /home/www/lbi/ Alias /lbi /home/www/lbi/ Alias /rc5/ /home/www/rc5/ Alias /rc5 /home/www/rc5/ Alias /JF/ /home/www/JF/ Alias /JF /home/www/JF/ Alias /JM/ /home/www/JM/ Alias /JM /home/www/JM/ Contents of each directory (/home/www/...) are provided for mirrors with independent rsync modules, so that admin of each site can select which to mirror. If LDP would use this scheme, admins of local ldp site could select which to mirror, even nothing but push all YY's to his domestic (or any) mirror server. Cheers, -- // NAKANO, Takeo // Appl. Phys., Engr. SEIKEI Univ. // E-mail : nakano@apm.seikei.ac.jp // http://surf.ap.seikei.ac.jp/~nakano/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id WAA20019 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 22:34:51 +1000 Received: (qmail 19130 invoked by uid 38); 13 Sep 1999 12:33:38 -0000 Resent-Date: 13 Sep 1999 12:33:38 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: guylhem@terram.oeil.qc.ca Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:51:40 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Translations (to English?) Message-ID: <19990913135140.C867@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="/e2eDi0V/xtL+Mc8"; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: ; from Tim on Sun, Sep 12, 1999 at 11:21:09PM -0500 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/421 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org --/e2eDi0V/xtL+Mc8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Sep 12, 1999 at 11:21:09PM -0500, Tim wrote: > I can't recall any right now, but know in the past I would have very much > liked it if I could have read other documents (FAQs/HOWTOs, etc.) had they > been in English. Interesting idea, I think each local LDP has at least 1 unique HOWTO (for ex., french LDP has a MODEM-HOWTO since 96, it is better than LDP MODEM-HOWTO which was written very recently) > Has anyone ever thought of the translation of other languages to English? We should ask this to local LDP leader, subscribed to this ml. 1. Do you have a HOWTO worth translating to english (which lacks to the LDP or is better than the english version) 2. Could your local LDP do this ? --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Save East Timor: http://altern.org/spoirier/timor.html http://www.pst-timor= .org --/e2eDi0V/xtL+Mc8 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN9zlTN+QeWug/qfFAQGopAQAkCPdI3DVM99grMsLaIY/dvz5M9/xewFg AfVclTeSVx2rsDn0Aa3tDKoItwONoJrGL71LRv8E89ElIO6CPgoNKl1afDnRQ3W0 z3FJoFAaq/bOrQPp7kIhucPRbM/tH67O7eAyocHXuEmJbwoWffWxvfG9slO7dSor npkesRMG1ig= =oBiG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --/e2eDi0V/xtL+Mc8-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id XAA20315 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 23:37:54 +1000 Received: (qmail 10655 invoked by uid 38); 13 Sep 1999 13:32:56 -0000 Resent-Date: 13 Sep 1999 13:32:56 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: morton@nortelnetworks.com Sender: "Andrew Morton" Message-ID: <37DCFDBC.61099E3@asiapacificm01.nt.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:35:56 +0000 From: "Andrew Morton" Organization: Nortel Networks (via modem) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.9-27mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org" , ravn@dit.ou.dk Subject: No "bugs" link on linuxdoc.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/422 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Hi, all. I suggest that the linuxdoc homepage should tell users what the "generic algorithm" is for providing feedback to the maintainers. Case in point: I just noticed that http://linuxdoc.org/HOWTO/mini/Colour-ls-3.html is full of things like % ls ‐‐color So I ask myself "hmm, how do I report this?". I go to the homepage and it doesn't tell me. I've copied Thorbjorn on this email, but I note that he last touched the doc two years ago, so he may not be the current maintainer... Cheers, Andrew. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id AAA20505 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:19:13 +1000 Received: (qmail 6945 invoked by uid 38); 13 Sep 1999 14:04:17 -0000 Resent-Date: 13 Sep 1999 14:04:17 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: psj@mustec.eu.org Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:58:01 +0100 (GMT) From: P Jenner To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Translations (to English?) In-Reply-To: <19990913135140.C867@victis.oeil.qc.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <9oIcj.A.AsB.gRQ33@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/424 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org On Mon, 13 Sep 1999, Guylhem Aznar wrote: > On Sun, Sep 12, 1999 at 11:21:09PM -0500, Tim wrote: > > I can't recall any right now, but know in the past I would have very much > > liked it if I could have read other documents (FAQs/HOWTOs, etc.) had they > > been in English. > Interesting idea, I think each local LDP has at least 1 unique HOWTO > (for ex., french LDP has a MODEM-HOWTO since 96, it is better than > LDP MODEM-HOWTO which was written very recently) Should the translation effort not already be directed toward having all LDP docs in all languages? If not this should be a goal in my view. Transparent language use of the LDP is a must for a global information source and no particular language (eg US English) should be placed above another except for contingent reasons. This also ties in with the notion we were discussing of separating LDP docs on web sites in language specific root directories (eg /fr/). It should be noted that en is a language which should be treated the same as any other and my feeling is that HOWTOs in US English should reside on LDP web sites under the /en/ root directory. A good use of such language independence in a web site is the Linux Mandrake distribution site (http://www.linux-mandrake.com/) which is worth a look. Comments? Paul ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul S Jenner GNU/Linux Advocate E-mail: psj@mustec.eu.org WWW: http://www.mustec.eu.org/~psj/ UNSOLICITED COMMERCIAL E-MAIL IS NOT WELCOME AT THIS ADDRESS ----------------------------------------------------------------------- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id AAA20594 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:37:32 +1000 Received: (qmail 21397 invoked by uid 38); 13 Sep 1999 14:18:11 -0000 Resent-Date: 13 Sep 1999 14:18:11 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:04:25 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim To: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: No "bugs" link on linuxdoc.org In-Reply-To: <37DCFDBC.61099E3@asiapacificm01.nt.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/426 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > I've copied Thorbjorn on this email, but I note that he last touched the > doc two years ago, so he may not be the current maintainer... He no longer maintains the document as is noted at: http://wallybox.cei.net/~tjbynum/LDP/current-updates.html Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/HOWTO tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id AAA20640 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:46:38 +1000 Received: (qmail 1561 invoked by uid 38); 13 Sep 1999 14:27:28 -0000 Resent-Date: 13 Sep 1999 14:27:28 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:13:45 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Translations (to English?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/427 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > Should the translation effort not already be directed toward > having all LDP docs in all languages? If not this should be a goal in my > view. Transparent language use of the LDP is a must for a global > information source and no particular language (eg US English) should be > placed above another except for contingent reasons. I couldn't agree more, but I don't recall ever seeing this issue brought up. Only translations *from* English. Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/HOWTO tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id BAA20764 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 01:14:46 +1000 Received: (qmail 28990 invoked by uid 38); 13 Sep 1999 15:08:04 -0000 Resent-Date: 13 Sep 1999 15:08:04 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: psj@mustec.eu.org Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:01:46 +0100 (GMT) From: P Jenner To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Translations (to English?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/428 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org As translation is becoming a large issue here is it worth reviewing the translation structure of the lDP in the same way as the QC structure. The creating of a translation mailing-list and the appointment of an LDP translation co-ordinator seems like a good addition to the core team. Comments? Paul ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul S Jenner GNU/Linux Advocate E-mail: psj@mustec.eu.org WWW: http://www.mustec.eu.org/~psj/ UNSOLICITED COMMERCIAL E-MAIL IS NOT WELCOME AT THIS ADDRESS ----------------------------------------------------------------------- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id BAA20781 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 01:17:18 +1000 Received: (qmail 671 invoked by uid 38); 13 Sep 1999 15:10:57 -0000 Resent-Date: 13 Sep 1999 15:10:56 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: psj@mustec.eu.org Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:04:37 +0100 (GMT) From: P Jenner To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: LDP bug-tracker Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <6oi2DB.A.yJ._PR33@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/429 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org It seems a sensible addition for the LDP to have a bug-tracker in the same way as any other major Open Source project. Is anyone willing to arrange such a thing? It can quite easily be set up in such a way as it runs itself and I am sure someone would host it even if linuxdoc could not. Paul ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul S Jenner GNU/Linux Advocate E-mail: psj@mustec.eu.org WWW: http://www.mustec.eu.org/~psj/ UNSOLICITED COMMERCIAL E-MAIL IS NOT WELCOME AT THIS ADDRESS ----------------------------------------------------------------------- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id DAA21460 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 03:49:16 +1000 Received: (qmail 30168 invoked by uid 38); 13 Sep 1999 17:42:31 -0000 Resent-Date: 13 Sep 1999 17:42:31 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:28:46 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim To: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: Kernel Hackers Guide In-Reply-To: <9909131248.ZM19831@hoop.timonium.sgi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/431 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Greg, > > http://www.linuxdoc.org/LDP/khg/HyperNews/get/khg.html > Thanks for your efforts! Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/HOWTO tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id FAA28755 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 05:17:09 +1000 Received: (qmail 28084 invoked by uid 38); 14 Sep 1999 19:08:17 -0000 Resent-Date: 14 Sep 1999 19:08:17 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: vern@zebra.alphacdc.com Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:07:17 -0600 Message-Id: <199909141907.NVH04373@zebra.alphacdc.com> From: Vern Hoxie To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: SGML help needed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/440 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org I'm trying to format my new version of Serial-Programmind-HOWTO and can't seem to generate conventional formats. For instance: 1. int cfsetispeed( struct termios *termios_p, speed_t speed ); should be in bold indented with '*termios_p' and 'speed' in bold itlalics. 2. int cfsetispeed( struct termios doesn't allow the italics nor does . These should be indented and on separate consecutive lines. and put a blank line between them and add bullets or numerals. 3. struct termios my_termios; struct termios new_termios; tcgetattr( fd, &my_termios ); my_termios.c_flag &= <&tilde>CBAUD; my_termios.c_flag |= B19200; tcsetattr( fd, TCSANOW, &my_termios ); tcgetattr( fd, &new_termios ); if ( memcmp( my_termios, new_termios, sizeof( my_termios )) != 0 ) { [ do some error handling ] } should be in typewriter font with indentation and without the dumb lines of hyphens generated by . The enviornment doesn't allow typewriter font. 4. I would like to make a three column table with headers in bold or italics and not gratuitous blank lines as are generated by 'itemize'. command optional_action Meaning TCSETSW TCSADRAIN Change after all output has drained. TCSETSF TCSAFLUSH Change after all output has drained then discard any input characters not read. For some reason, the TCSETSW and TCSETSF get through okay but the headers, 'command' etc, get moved to the left margin. 5. I get an error message: :154: warning: can't find font `C' The only line which contains a solo 'C' is: "It was once stated that the popularity of UNIX and C was that they" Now, how do I avoid the error message? Does it cause any adverse side effects? 6. The sgml2txt compiler complains that it can't find 'hyphen.en'. Where can I get this dats base and where does 'sgml' expect to find it? vern -- Vernon C. Hoxie vern@zebra.alphacdc.com 3975 W. 29th Ave. uucp: 303-455-2670 Denver, Colo., 80212 voice: 303-477-1780 If you ain't makin' waves, you ain't kickin' hard enough! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id LAA30537 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:13:18 +1000 Received: (qmail 29401 invoked by uid 38); 15 Sep 1999 01:13:03 -0000 Resent-Date: 15 Sep 1999 01:13:03 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: vern@zebra.alphacdc.com Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:12:11 -0600 Message-Id: <199909150112.TVH04800@zebra.alphacdc.com> From: Vern Hoxie To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: SGML help needed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/442 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org On Tue, 14 Sep 1999, Hugo van der Kooij wrote: > On Tue, 14 Sep 1999, Vern Hoxie wrote: > >> I'm trying to format my new version of Serial-Programmind-HOWTO and >> can't seem to generate conventional formats. > > .... > >> 6. >> The sgml2txt compiler complains that it can't find 'hyphen.en'. Where >> can I get this dats base and where does 'sgml' expect to find it? > > So you want things that were handled in Doc Book SGML but never even > properly touched in linuxdoc SGML. But yet you use linuxdoc SGML for now. > > I suggest you turn to the SGMLtools mailinglist fro SGML > assistance. But I don't think you can get anywhere close to what you > want with linuxdoc SGML (as used by sgml-tools v1.0.x) and you would > need DocBook SGML (as used by SGMLtools v2.0.x) to get it done. Very good! Now where do I subscribe to the SGMLtools mailinglist and where do I get "SGMLtools v2.0.x"? vern -- Vernon C. Hoxie vern@zebra.alphacdc.com 3975 W. 29th Ave. uucp: 303-455-2670 Denver, Colo., 80212 voice: 303-477-1780 If you ain't makin' waves, you ain't kickin' hard enough! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id EAA02639 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 04:31:41 +1000 Received: (qmail 5290 invoked by uid 38); 15 Sep 1999 18:24:40 -0000 Resent-Date: 15 Sep 1999 18:24:40 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: guylhem@victis.oeil.qc.ca Message-Id: From: guylhem@terram.oeil.qc.ca To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 20:24:11 +0200 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Subject: Unidentified subject! X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/445 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org >From guylhem Wed Sep 15 20:20:37 1999 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] ident=guylhem) by victis.oeil.qc.ca with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #3) id 11RJfX-0000T6-00 for guylhem@localhost; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 20:20:35 +0200 Delivered-To: online.fr-guylhem@free.fr Received: from pop.free.fr by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.0.0) for guylhem@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 15 Sep 1999 20:20:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: (qmail 25669 invoked from network); 15 Sep 1999 18:18:34 -0000 Received: from terram.oeil.qc.ca (205.236.183.26) by mrelay3.free.fr with SMTP; 15 Sep 1999 18:18:34 -0000 Received: from tscnet.com (ksford@ppp-tnt-56.tscnet.net [207.227.238.56]) by terram.oeil.qc.ca (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA07101 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 14:23:13 -0400 Received: (from ksford@localhost) by tscnet.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA02069; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:17:10 -0700 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: <199909151817.LAA02069@tscnet.com> From: "Kevin S. Ford" To: Guylhem Aznar Subject: Important Article For Linux Development/Documentation Leaders Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.100) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Resent-From: guylhem@victis.oeil.qc.ca Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 20:24:11 +0200 Resent-To: LDP discuss Hello Guylhem- I ran across an interesting and important article recently and thought I'd make sure that someone in the linux community was aware of it. I am a very satisfied and happy linux user and have been for more than 4 years. I'm also a submarine officer in the US Navy, and have been for more than 10 years. This gives me a very good perspective on the US Government's "plan" (if one could call it that), on information systems, and in short, it is dismally poor quality. Our networks break very frequently, (because they use anything from Novell networks to Windows NT networks and of course, for other reasons, too). Not to mention the fact that we truly are becoming dependent solely upon Microsoft products. I've worked at probably 10 different DOD organizations in the 10 years I've been a naval officer, and every single one of them has always been using Microsoft products. This is bad for all the reasons that the article mentions. I've been trying to encourage various organizations in DOD to switch over to something much more reliable for a long time, and it looks like (from this article) somebody is starting to come around. Just thought you might be interested and know best who to pass this article on to. _________________________________________________________________________ Plan ahead. Promote swift colonization of the solar system... *First* _______________________ ____________Kevin S Ford__________ _____________ksford@nps.navy.mil________ ********************************************************************* Top Officials Seek Alternatives to Microsoft By Stephen Trimble FEDERAL TIMES STAFF WRITER Concerned about security and an excessive reliance on Microsoft software, senior administration officials plan to diversify the types of operating systems software purchased by the government. The National Security Council soon will create a new office to assess the ways federal agencies could make greater use of open-source, or nonproprietary, software that is freely available to anyone and has codes that are not secret. "One of the areas we are very interested in looking at is open-source code," a senior White House official told Federal Times. The effort ultimately could affect the types of software the government purchases for network servers and desktop applications. The government will buy $2 billion worth of software in 2000, according to Federal Sources Inc., of Fairfax, Va., a market research company. The initial purpose of the new software assessment office will be to identify agencies and programs that will be candidates for trials of open source software, said the White House official, who asked not to be identified. The General Services Administration and the National Institute of Standards and Technology also are involved in creating the office. Its location still is to be decided. The new office will assess the costs and benefits of using open-source software to operate many government computers. Also to be determined are the cost and technical obstacles to communication between systems using open-source and the proprietary software now in use. The White House official declined to say how extensive is the administration's plan to diversify its reliance on operating systems software. A chief reason for the effort, according to advocates, is to address concerns that Microsoft operating systems are vulnerable to malicious computer viruses and hacker attacks. This is partly because the Microsoft software is proprietary and security vulnerabilities are more difficult to find and correct, said Przemek Klosowski, a NIST physicist and leader of the Washington, D.C., Linux User's Group. "Government should be vendor-neutral, and the government should not formulate IT requirements that say only a single vendor is applicable," Klosowski said. Klosowski said Linux is used on a limited basis for computer research applications at Energy Department laboratories, NASA, NIST and the Defense Department. "I don't know of any large government Linux contracts," he added. Another purpose of adopting different types of software is to diversify the government's inventory of operating systems, so not all are vulnerable to the same viruses and attacks, the White House official said. Linux, an open-source operating system similar in functionality to Microsoft Windows, is being given serious consideration as an alternative for government computer users, the official said. Access to the Linux source code "gives us some confidence," the White House official said, adding that it simplifies patching security breeches and correcting routine errors. Created by a Finnish graduate student named Linus Torvalls in 1991, Linux's open code is relentlessly scrutinized and tested by tens of thousands of systems analysts worldwide, who constantly recommend improvements, Klosowski said. As a result, Linux boasts a robust code that rarely malfunctions and is extremely difficult for hackers to crack, Klosowski said. Microsoft, on the other hand, keeps its code secret and makes upgrades to its products on a yearly basis, he said. Microsoft software products have been the target of numerous computer viruses. One of the best known was the Melissa virus that struck thousands of government and nongovernment computers in March by exploiting vulnerabilities in Microsoft Word 97 and Microsoft Word 2000. In June, another virus called ExploreZip targeted vulnerabilities in Microsoft Windows 95, Windows 98 and Windows NT. Microsoft officials argue their software products meet federal security standards. Microsoft's main server software, Microsoft Windows NT 3.5, for instance, is certified under the federal security standard known as Federal Information Processing Standard 140-1, said Quazi Zaman, advanced technology manager for Microsoft Federal Systems of Washington, D.C. The newest version of Microsoft's server operating system, called Microsoft Windows NT 4.0, is undergoing certification and is expected to be certified "in the next three months," Zaman said. Zaman added that Microsoft has been considering making some of its software products open source for two years. "Open source is a very innovative way to develop software," Zaman said. "The issue is how much of our own code we should put out in the open source environment." Zaman added that Microsoft likely would be willing to provide the National Security Council with its code for security inspections if it is for national security purposes. So far, he said, the NSC has not asked for access to any of Microsoft's software code. Zaman argued that government agencies are not excessively reliant on Microsoft products, adding that other software suppliers, namely, database software suppliers, have larger shares of the federal software market. The project to increase the government's use of open-source operating systems likely will present formidable challenges. The government already relies extensively on Microsoft products for desktop and, increasingly, server applications. Thus, there are sure to be communications problems between systems that use different software, said John Gilligan, the Energy Department's chief information officer. The concept also appears to run counter to the government's 3-year-old effort to concentrate on buying commercial, easy-to-use software, said Payton Smith of Federal Sources Inc. Regardless of security concerns, Smith added, a multitude of software systems within an agency often can lead to interoperability problems. "The more variations you have in the software, the more problems and the more costs you're going to have," Smith said. The White House official acknowledged that concerns over costs and interoperability issues must be settled for the project to succeed. "That's exactly the issues we're looking at," the official said. "Both costs and interoperability are critical issues." Subscription Services | Staff | Write Us | Bulletin Board Army Times Publishing | Space News Online | Defense News Online | Military City Online Copyright -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id EAA02731 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 04:51:55 +1000 Received: (qmail 10912 invoked by uid 38); 15 Sep 1999 18:51:04 -0000 Resent-Date: 15 Sep 1999 18:51:03 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: pjones@metalab.unc.edu X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: pjones owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 14:50:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul Jones X-Sender: pjones@titan.oit.unc.edu To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Microsoft gathering information on the place of Linux in education Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/446 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org on a similar but slightly opposite tact from Guylhem. Microsoft asks *me* to do their market research for them; Lead me not into temptation. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:49:19 -0700 From: Jeff Anderson To: "'pjones@metalab.unc.edu'" Subject: Microsoft gathering information on the place of Linux in educatio n We are gathering information on the use of Linux in education. I would appreciate the opportunity to talk with you about the following questions. Total number of desktops: Number Linux desktops: Total number of servers: Numbr of Linux servers: Current messaging product: Current file/print product: Current web server product: Who supports Linux machines: What Linux applications have been deployed or do you plan to deploy? What are the primary reasons for using Linux? Reliability Cost Runs on low-end hardware TCO Performance Open Source Other Comments: What are Linux's comparative strengths and weaknesses compared to Microsoft NT? What versions of Linux are being used? Who is bringing Linux into the organization? What do you see Linux replacing? What are the Linux TCO factors? Jeff Anderson Education Account Development Specialist Southeast Region: GA, NC, SC E-Mail jeffan@microsoft.com Phone 800/426-9400 x11649 Fax 425/936-7329 <> begin 600 Jeff Anderson.vcf M0D5'24XZ5D-!4D0-"E9%4E-)3TXZ,BXQ#0I..D%N9&5R; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 05:22:50 +1000 Received: (qmail 24344 invoked by uid 38); 15 Sep 1999 19:22:39 -0000 Resent-Date: 15 Sep 1999 19:22:39 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: pjones@metalab.unc.edu X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: pjones owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:22:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul Jones X-Sender: pjones@titan.oit.unc.edu To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org cc: Don Sizemore Subject: list archives Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/447 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Donald's had the archiver running on the lists for a little while now and it looks very good. Not all lists have messages, but ldp-discuss does so that you may now read it in a couple of ways and even refer back to older messages. check it out and see if you are happy. we can pass the links on to Mr. Poet and Ferg soon after. http://linuxdoc.org/archives/ldp-announce/maillist.html http://linuxdoc.org/archives/ldp-discuss/maillist.html http://linuxdoc.org/archives/ldp-docbook/maillist.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id FAA02883 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 05:24:42 +1000 Received: (qmail 26404 invoked by uid 38); 15 Sep 1999 19:24:35 -0000 Resent-Date: 15 Sep 1999 19:24:35 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: pjones@metalab.unc.edu X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: pjones owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:24:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul Jones X-Sender: pjones@titan.oit.unc.edu To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: hurricane Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/448 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org I expect that all will go well. we have 24 hour standby folks and power and cooling backups in place. still we are facing a very very big storm due here tonight. there may be some loss of access if the wrong wires break for the wrong people. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id OAA05361 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:09:22 +1000 Received: (qmail 9803 invoked by uid 38); 16 Sep 1999 04:08:13 -0000 Resent-Date: 16 Sep 1999 04:08:13 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: poet@linuxports.com Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 21:15:55 -0700 (PDT) From: "Mr. Poet" X-Sender: jd@crazypenguins.commandprompt.com To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: LDP Logo Prizes Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/451 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Hello, It is confirmed. I have arranged for the winner of the LDP logo contest to receive a 17" ViewSonic Monitor and a 32meg Nvidia Riva TNT card to push it with. Poet LinuxPorts - http://www.linuxports.com LDP - http://www.linuxdoc.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id SAA06577 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:07:32 +1000 Received: (qmail 8094 invoked by uid 38); 16 Sep 1999 08:07:23 -0000 Resent-Date: 16 Sep 1999 08:07:23 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: guylhem@victis.oeil.qc.ca Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 10:06:46 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: LDP discuss Subject: Are we good enough ? Message-ID: <19990916100646.B10996@victis.oeil.qc.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=pvezYHf7grwyp3Bc; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <_EGs3B.A.J-B.7UK43@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/455 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org --pvezYHf7grwyp3Bc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, We (the "core" team) get very few feedback from authors. Could ppl please tell us if our work for the LDP is good enough ? If it is not, what should we improve ? Feel free to reply either on the list or by private mail to each of us. --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Save East Timor: http://altern.org/spoirier/timor.html http://www.pst-timor= .org --pvezYHf7grwyp3Bc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN+ClFt+QeWug/qfFAQGx+gQApUnUjN3uZfr9/dwIg6hH6qv8O5AV7cdE 3xdNx6590fIrDkGNj46oDTVfR1wB9s5uAVg6DN3vfgM5Hp9FBFmM9yc9PTPpQHMR APISyAyM7V8W3FllXxGtC5nJkK1T/Tmv7W673UM6rOUQ9S/UGSEU/6bop4Ab64Nj 0H/kpAhDbtM= =TWnE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --pvezYHf7grwyp3Bc-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id UAA07259 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 20:29:13 +1000 Received: (qmail 3845 invoked by uid 38); 16 Sep 1999 10:26:18 -0000 Resent-Date: 16 Sep 1999 10:26:18 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: richard@linsup.com Reply-To: From: "Richard Ames" To: "LDP discuss" Subject: RE: Are we good enough ? Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 20:26:07 +1000 Message-ID: <001601bf002d$e35092a0$0200a8c0@perch> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <19990916100646.B10996@victis.oeil.qc.ca> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <950nnB.A.s7.KXM43@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/456 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > -----Original Message----- > From: Guylhem Aznar [mailto:guylhem@oeil.qc.ca] > Sent: Thursday, 16 September 1999 6:07 > To: LDP discuss > Subject: Are we good enough ? > > > Hi, > > We (the "core" team) get very few feedback from authors. > > Could ppl please tell us if our work for the LDP is good enough ? > If it is not, what should we improve ? LDP contributors, I am not an author but would like to applaud the work that is being done for the Linux community by the LDP people. I like reading about the new web setup and the prospect of updated documents... Is the list readership large? Is it growing? Possibly a link to the list on the LDP 'homepage' would draw some people in to the discussion.... Thanks for all your efforts, Richard. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id CAA08952 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 02:40:14 +1000 Received: (qmail 15371 invoked by uid 38); 16 Sep 1999 16:33:25 -0000 Resent-Date: 16 Sep 1999 16:33:24 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: olea@tsai.es Message-ID: <37E11810.33499697@tsai.es> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:17:20 +0200 From: Ismael Olea X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [es] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: es-ES,es,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: LDP bug-tracker References: <37DE20A1.A71DCD78@tsai.es> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Infomail-Id: 937498781.448E010A811066.58781 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/458 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by albert.animats.net id CAA08952 Ismael Olea escribió: Did anybody visit the Insflug URL? :-/ They have built a bug tracker for howtos... > P Jenner escribió: > > > > It seems a sensible addition for the LDP to have a bug-tracker in > > the same way as any other major Open Source project. Is anyone willing to > > arrange such a thing? It can quite easily be set up in such a way as it > > runs itself and I am sure someone would host it even if linuxdoc could > > not. > > The Howto-es (Insflug)( project has developed one of this: > http://www.insflug.org/comos/comos.php3 > > (Cómo is the Spanish convention name for howto). > > -- > > Ismael Olea > TSAI, Área Sistemas, Unix tlf. 91-7548748 > > olea@tsai.es olea@iname.com > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org -- Ismael Olea TSAI, Área Sistemas, Unix tlf. 91-7548748 olea@tsai.es olea@iname.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id HAA10413 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 07:41:35 +1000 Received: (qmail 20524 invoked by uid 38); 16 Sep 1999 21:41:24 -0000 Resent-Date: 16 Sep 1999 21:41:24 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: markk@cgipc.com Message-ID: <37E161F1.9CC59D14@cgipc.com> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:32:33 -0400 From: Mark Komarinski X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: linuxdoc.org: copyright and Manifesto References: <19990916172117.B6135@albert.animats.net> <9909161707.ZM25566@hoop.timonium.sgi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/461 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Should authors who wish to use this copyright just reference the URL, or should they include it as part of the document? -Mark Greg Ferguson wrote: > > Based on some of Terry's observations, I have updated the > copyright document. I have removed the "Publishing LDP > Manuals" area from it, and instead link to the area found > within the Manifesto. There are also a couple of other > links to the Manifesto that are specifically called out. > > The copyright is found at - http://www.linuxdoc.org/copyright.html > and the Manifesto (also modified slightly) can be seen at - > http://www.linuxdoc.org/LDP-Manifesto.html > > Terry (or anyone else that may have comments on these documents), > if this doesn't capture what you're looking for, please email me. > > Ferg > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id RAA13210 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 17:36:28 +1000 Received: (qmail 29094 invoked by uid 38); 17 Sep 1999 07:36:18 -0000 Resent-Date: 17 Sep 1999 07:36:17 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: bf347@lafn.org Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 00:36:03 -0700 Message-Id: <199909170736.AA18938@lafn.org> From: bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer) To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: LDP bug-tracker Cc: Reply-To: bf347@lafn.org Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/469 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Why do we need a bug-tracker? It's nice to do this for software but for documents I'm not so sure. For software, a bug keeps some people (or everyone) from using it. For docs this is seldom the case. For typos and bad grammar one may usually figure out what was meant. If there's an error, someone can post the correct info on a newsgroup. Thus there may be a group of people who want to check a bug-tracking system to see if a program is fixed so they can use it. What people will be doing the same for documents? A bug tracking system generally requires that the author post a message stating the "bug" was fixed. This may be a lot of unnecessary bother, especially if all that was fixed was a typo or two. I think that the best system is for the author (or maintainer) to have a "mailto" url link at the start of the howto. Then anyone who finds an error or has suggestions just clicks on it (if they are using a HTML browser) to contact the author. With a bug-tracking system, this one-on-one interchange would not be private anymore. For software bugs it's often desirable to have a number of people listening in since they may be able to figure out the cause of the bug (or report other symptoms) and help fix it. This is seldom the case with docs. I think that since some documentation may be urgently needed, it's best to release it early before checking it over much. If defects in documents are to be publicized, people might be less inclined to write howtos (and also less inclined to release it when they should). Someone that wanted to critize an author could gather a lot of ammunition if a bug tracking system existed. What may be needed is someone that a reader can contact if he get's no response from the author/maintainer within a resonable amount of time. Thus I don't think we should be looking into any bug-tracking system. There are much more important things to do. David Lawyer -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id BAA15268 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 01:03:01 +1000 Received: (qmail 2084 invoked by uid 38); 17 Sep 1999 15:02:21 -0000 Resent-Date: 17 Sep 1999 15:02:21 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: ajpalace@fc.up.pt X-Authentication-Warning: prometeu.fc.up.pt: ajpalace owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:58:09 +0100 (WET) From: Alfredo Palace Carvalho To: LDP discuss Subject: Re: Are we good enough ? In-Reply-To: <19990916100646.B10996@victis.oeil.qc.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/472 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by albert.animats.net id BAA15268 hi, although i usually am more of a read-only participant of mailing lists, i now and then decide to give my modest contribution. here are some scattered suggestions/comments about the ldp. in the ldp web pages i saw some dates in the fully-numeric format MM/DD/YY. because in different places in the world different date styles are used (the US uses MM/DD/YY, while europe uses DD/MM/YY, or even YY/MM/DD sometimes) i think it is desirable to use the unambigous textual format "17 Sep 1999" not only in the web pages, but especially in the docs. i don't know if this is a big issue (i haven't looked at it very thoroughly and don't know how frequently NN/NN/NN dates are seen in the docs) but still, i thought i should call your attention to the problem -- that is, if it exists :-). these matters with the dates can sometimes cause some confusion. in the recent comments and discussions about the domains www.XX.linuxdoc.org/YY for local ldp mirrors, as i understand it, the XX refers to the geographical location of the mirror while the YY refers to a particular language of the ldp docs. i don't know if YY implies that a two letter code will describe the given language. i want to call your attention for the fact that some languages have geographical variants (for example, portuguese has several variants like the european and the brazilian variants) and are better referenced by the also often used four letter code (in the previous example, pt_BR for the portuguese brazilian variant, and pt_PT for the portuguese european variant). finally, some questions about the ldp license, which is being discussed these past couple of days. i don't find it very clear on the point where it refers to the translations of the ldp docs (or manuals, as they are called on the license). it says that permission from the authors is required for distribution of translations of the manuals, although such permission is not required for the distribution of the originals. does the availability of the translated docs on the web require such permission (i mean, is web-publishing considered as distribution)? what about the translation itself? is it necessary for someone that decides to translate a ldp doc, to ask for permission to the author before beginning with the translation? why this difference between the freedom of distribution of translations in comparison to the distribuiton of the original texts? sorry for the length of the message. regards, alfredo Alfredo Palace Carvalho at work: at LDP-pt: POLI - Projecto Português de Documentação do Linux http://www.poli.org/ Don't let East Timor die http://www.labrego.net/timor/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 07:58:21 +1000 (EST) From: terry@albert Subject: Re: LDP bug-tracker To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII >> What may be needed is someone that a reader can contact if he get's no >> response from the author/maintainer within a resonable amount of time. >> Thus I don't think we should be looking into any bug-tracking system. >> There are much more important things to do. I think the real value of a bug tracking system such as that that the Debian project uses is that reported bugs are visible to all. It sometimes takes an author a period of time to release a new version of a document, or ammend a section. The bug tracking system would help reduce the number of repeated bug reports that authors of popular documents sometimes receive. Additionally, it can help fill the gap for others who have found the problem if the "fix" is included in the bug report, others can make use of that before it makes it into the actual document itself. These advantages are not available in any scheme that doesn't make reported bugs/suggestions etc visible publicly. regards Terry -- terry@albert.animats.net, terry@linux.org.au From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id OAA19317 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 14:46:16 +1000 Received: (qmail 14141 invoked by uid 38); 18 Sep 1999 04:45:27 -0000 Resent-Date: 18 Sep 1999 04:45:27 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: yan@mail.storm.ca Message-Id: <199909180445.AAA15809@mail.storm.ca> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Yves Bellefeuille" To: LDP discuss Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 00:43:41 -0400 Subject: Re: Are we good enough ? Reply-to: yan@storm.ca CC: Guylhem Aznar , Konrad Hinsen Priority: normal In-reply-to: <19990916100646.B10996@victis.oeil.qc.ca> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/473 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Guylhem Aznar wrote: > We (the "core" team) get very few feedback from authors. > > Could ppl please tell us if our work for the LDP is good enough ? > If it is not, what should we improve ? Frankly, I'm getting really annoyed that I've tried to update my Mini How-To without success for over three months. I realize we're all volunteers, but I think that keeping the information up to date is much more important to the users (and the authors) than making the LDP Web pages look nice or organizing logo contests. Please update my Mini How-To, and all the other How-Tos, and only then start thinking about the new-and-improved LDP organization, quality control, fancy Web pages, and so on. -- Yves Bellefeuille , Ottawa, Canada Francais / English / Esperanto Maintainer, Esperanto FAQ: http://www.esperanto.net/veb/faq.html PGP key at the servers and at http://www.storm.ca/~yan/pgp.asc -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id WAA21324 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 22:01:13 +1000 Received: (qmail 20020 invoked by uid 38); 18 Sep 1999 12:01:03 -0000 Resent-Date: 18 Sep 1999 12:01:03 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 06:49:44 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: linuxdoc.org: copyright and Manifesto In-Reply-To: <19990916172117.B6135@albert.animats.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/474 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > Just because someone takes over maintainership of a document I've worked on > is no reason for my name to be removed from the copyright. That would breach > the GPL where it specifically states that all copyright notices are to > be retained. There is no doubt....this would definately be a breach of the GPL. New Maintainers should at no point ever remove the original author. The only way I could ever see this happening is if the doc in question was ever given an overhaul or completely re-written. I'm still not sure it warrant removal of the original author, but I suppose if they had the consent of the the author in question, then this would be legit. Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/HOWTO tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id WAA21390 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 22:15:46 +1000 Received: (qmail 24757 invoked by uid 38); 18 Sep 1999 12:15:39 -0000 Resent-Date: 18 Sep 1999 12:15:39 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 07:04:25 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: LDP bug-tracker In-Reply-To: <199909170736.AA18938@lafn.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/475 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > What may be needed is someone that a reader can contact if he get's no > response from the author/maintainer within a resonable amount of time. > Thus I don't think we should be looking into any bug-tracking system. > There are much more important things to do. I had made the suggestion that we have an email address (or list) available for reporting bugs, but it didn't fly over very well. I believe one of the comments was that it should be handled directly, meaning on the author should be contacted. But you bring up the point that I was trying to make......if that author(s) does not respond, or better yet, the corrections are not made, then nothing is accomplished and the time wasted is by that of the reader trying to contact the author which is what we're all looking for.....feedback. Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/HOWTO tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id XAA21602 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 23:02:23 +1000 Received: (qmail 10804 invoked by uid 38); 18 Sep 1999 13:01:15 -0000 Resent-Date: 18 Sep 1999 13:01:15 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: dan@telent.net Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 12:52:17 +0100 From: Daniel Barlow To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Are we good enough ? Message-ID: <19990919125217.A3658@loaclhost.telent.net> References: <199909180445.AAA15809@mail.storm.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: ; from Tim on Sat, Sep 18, 1999 at 07:18:06AM -0500 Resent-Message-ID: <1wvpnB.A.ToC.a0443@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/477 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org On Sat, Sep 18, 1999 at 07:18:06AM -0500, Tim wrote: > The update was sent to me in text format, and not of the required format > which is either sgml (preferred) or html. Eh? This is a Mini-HOWTO - I thought they were allowed to be in plain text? -dan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id XAA21672 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 23:18:13 +1000 Received: (qmail 21182 invoked by uid 38); 18 Sep 1999 13:18:04 -0000 Resent-Date: 18 Sep 1999 13:18:04 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 08:06:42 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Are we good enough ? In-Reply-To: <19990919125217.A3658@loaclhost.telent.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/478 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org On Sun, 19 Sep 1999, Daniel Barlow wrote: > On Sat, Sep 18, 1999 at 07:18:06AM -0500, Tim wrote: > > The update was sent to me in text format, and not of the required format > > which is either sgml (preferred) or html. > > Eh? This is a Mini-HOWTO - I thought they were allowed to be in plain > text? They have not been allowed in Text format for at least 2 years. The Linux HOWTO Index: Writing and Submitting a HOWTO http://metalab.unc.edu/mdw/HOWTO/HOWTO-INDEX-4.html I point anyone and everyone interested in writing a doc to this URL. Then I then ask them to contact me after reading this, and if they are *still* interested, then we'll just continue from there. Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/HOWTO tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id XAA21696 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 23:21:47 +1000 Received: (qmail 22214 invoked by uid 38); 18 Sep 1999 13:21:41 -0000 Resent-Date: 18 Sep 1999 13:21:41 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 08:10:27 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Are we good enough ? In-Reply-To: <19990919125217.A3658@loaclhost.telent.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/479 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > > The update was sent to me in text format, and not of the required format > > which is either sgml (preferred) or html. > > Eh? This is a Mini-HOWTO - I thought they were allowed to be in plain > text? Again....the document in question is the "Hard Disk Upgrade Mini HOWTO", which in its previous submission was in HTML format as is seen at: http://linuxdoc.org/HOWTO/mini/Hard-Disk-Upgrade.html Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/HOWTO tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id XAA21768 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 23:34:55 +1000 Received: (qmail 25178 invoked by uid 38); 18 Sep 1999 13:34:47 -0000 Resent-Date: 18 Sep 1999 13:34:47 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: howto@wallybox.cei.net Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 08:23:33 -0500 (CDT) From: "HOWTO \(from metalab\)" To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: caldera OpenLinux2.3 installation howto (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/481 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Hello, Robert Easter sent me this information and thought perhaps someone could use it in an existing HOWTO. If you would like to use it, please contact him at the email address above. Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:26:56 -0400 From: Robert Easter To: "'linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu'" Subject: caldera OpenLinux2.3 installation howto I just installed OpenLinux 2.3 and had a hard time figuring out how to do it. I hope maybe I can share how I did it with you and you might know of a FAQ/HOWTO that could include the info: OpenLinux-ISO9660-cdrom-Image-Install-HOWTO ?? This describes how to install Caldera OpenLinux using the following: Downloaded from a Caldera OpenLinux 2.3 mirror... * INSTALL and MODULES boot floppies images. * The ISO9660 full install CDROM image file (big download, about 650MB). Additionally: * You must use a boot/root/rescue Linux floppy boot disk to boot up the system and partition the hdd into 3 partitions: Linux, Linux Swap, and an extra 700MB Win95 FAT32 partition to hold the ISO9660 CDROM image. The debian or slackware boot/root floppies work well to provide cfdisk, dd, mount and other needed utils. It is not necessary to burn a cdrom from the iso-image if you can create a disk partition to hold it. These floppies can be made with the RAWRITE.EXE program from MSDOS. 1. Boot system on BOOT/ROOT/RESCUE disk. Make the partitions: cfdisk /dev/hdb Note: /dev/hdb1 Linux /dev/hdb2 Swap /dev/hdb3 Win95 FAT32 (for cdrom image, 700MB) mke2fs /dev/hdb1 mkswap /dev/hdb2 2. Load cdrom image on /dev/hdb3: mkdir /hda1 mount /dev/hda1 /hda1 dd if=/hda1/ of=/dev/hdb3 3. Check to see that you can mount the cdrom image: mkdir /hdb3 mount /dev/hdb3 /hdb3 cd /hdb3 ls -l Note: You should see the contents of the cdrom image now. 4. Use rawrite.exe from MSDOS or dd, like above, to make the Caldera OpenLinux INSTALL and MODULES disks from the floppy boot images. 5. Boot up on the INSTALL floppy: Insert the MODULES floppy when it waits for it. Allow the boot checkpoints routine to continue until it says it can't install on your system or try to break out from it with CTRL-C or CTRL-ALT-F1. Type option "sh" to get a shell or otherwise, get to the shell. 6. Mount the cdrom image partition: mount /dev/hdb3 /mnt/install 7. Now re-run the installation routine: cd / ./linuxrc Note: This restarts the graphical installation routine and it will go through the boot checks again. This time is should see the hard disk location that was mounted and process to install. THATS IT. The rest is easy. You may have to manually choose and configure your network card once the system is up. If you have a SB audio ISA, you might need to reserve its IRQ in you system BIOS so it doesn't get used by the USB driver. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id AAA21943 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 00:14:49 +1000 Received: (qmail 10185 invoked by uid 38); 18 Sep 1999 14:14:41 -0000 Resent-Date: 18 Sep 1999 14:14:40 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: dan@telent.net Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 14:47:30 +0100 From: Daniel Barlow To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Are we good enough ? Message-ID: <19990919144730.B3658@loaclhost.telent.net> References: <19990919125217.A3658@loaclhost.telent.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: ; from Tim on Sat, Sep 18, 1999 at 08:06:42AM -0500 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/482 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org On Sat, Sep 18, 1999 at 08:06:42AM -0500, Tim wrote: > > Eh? This is a Mini-HOWTO - I thought they were allowed to be in plain > > text? > They have not been allowed in Text format for at least 2 years. Oops. I must have missed the announcement when that change was made. Sorry. -dan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id BAA22235 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 01:17:49 +1000 Received: (qmail 8069 invoked by uid 38); 18 Sep 1999 15:17:34 -0000 Resent-Date: 18 Sep 1999 15:17:34 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 10:06:21 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: LDP bug-tracker In-Reply-To: <199909181454.HAA06528@crazypenguins.commandprompt.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/486 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > The problem with NOT contacting the author directly is that changing the > document without the authors permission is often copyright infringement. > Although most documents allow modification it is not modification of the > existing document. This means that we would end up with the MODEM- > HOWTO and the MODEM-HOWTO.Bugfix1999. > > This would be a nightmare. One of the point we (at least myself) was that if they get no response from the author(s) in question and errors continue, where are they to turn? I was *never* looking for readers to completely bypass the author or maintainer of a document, and don't believe that I ever stated this. Having folks openly and/or behind the scenes go and edit documents and submit them again with .Bugfix1999 was never something I considered. I was merely speaking of an alternative channel. Perhaps a post ldp-discuss would be sufficient if direct contact to the author fails. It seems there is no problem blasting me when someone feels that I've neglected them. ;) But if no one knows this, it will never happen. On a more serious note, the issue I still question is what is supposed to happen if docs continue to go un-corrected? Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/HOWTO tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id BAA22339 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 01:40:11 +1000 Received: (qmail 19745 invoked by uid 38); 18 Sep 1999 15:39:43 -0000 Resent-Date: 18 Sep 1999 15:39:43 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: rubini@morgana.systemy.it Message-ID: <19990918174029.27358@morgana.systemy.it> Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 17:40:29 +0200 From: Alessandro Rubini To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Licensing issues Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/487 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Poet: > The problem with NOT contacting the author directly is that changing the > document without the authors permission is often copyright infringement. That's one reason why we need that all LDP documents are absolutely free. The documents must allow modifications (with the usual disclaimers of non-endorsing etc, and maybe with an exception about non-techinal parts, but this is controversial, as already noted on this list -- or was it the older one?). > Although most documents allow modification it is not modification of the > existing document. Sorry, I don't understand. What would you modify if not the document? > This means that we would end up with the MODEM- HOWTO and the > MODEM-HOWTO.Bugfix1999. If the author restricts the use of the document name (like the Apache group, who don't allow derived programs to be calles "Apache" to protect their brand), you'll simple end up changing the name of the document. Protecting the name, however, is not good policy when the owner is a single author (instead of an organized group like Apache), as the person in charge is ephemaral, can loose interests or can simply disappear. Binding the title to a person leads to problems, like people looking for a new document with the old name and complaining that there are no updated documents. Poet, again: > Personally I still think it is stupid that we allow LICENSING of > documentation. What do you propose as an alternative? > The GPL is not a documentation license. People have stated that it > will work for documentation, this may be true but it is still a > little backwards.. When documentation is created in electronic form and is subject to constant modification and updating like technical documentation, there is little difference, in my opinion, from a program. And stressing on source code (like the GPL does) is not insane. If I, as a teacher, extract parts of the NET-HOWTO to print for my students (removing editing and adding parts as the target is different from the howto`s), my students should also get source code (the sgpm), to be able to reprint and reuse in a different way if that's their need. And I, as an author, want to block "proprietarization" of my free documents and derived ones. The GPL is a viable mean, although not the perfect license for this task. While talking about licensing, I'll comment on Gary's message. Gary: > I had an email from Alessandro this morning. His understanding is that > a document published under the OPL (esp OPL with the option to reserve > book printing rights) prevents a document from being included in the > LDP. Is this true? I would like that to be true. While reserving exclusive rights to derive a book is a sensible requirement (because of economic issue we all are aware of) I think it is bad in the long run. First of all, it raises the issue of derived documents. Are derived docuemnts allowed? If not, then the license is Bad (tm). If yes, can I print a modified document? How much modified? Another big issue is that publishers may stop printing a book; if they have the exclusive right to print, then the book is lost (like most good books that have ever been produced). For example, let's imaging old Bill buys McGraw-Hill and Prentice-Hall. Will they still print all their good books about Unix? (I heard rumors about such a buy out, but I haven't be able to confirm it). A free book must be freely reprinted. It's like the software issue: we don't want to reinvent or rewrite everything, we want to be able to build on the existent. So I think the "not printable as a book" is a trap for authors that think to work on free documentation. That said, I think it is acceptable to restrict printing for a limited period of time. If a publisher denies printing for 2 or 3 years I think it is an acceptable trade off, blocking competitors of the publisher without depriving the community from reusing the material when economic forces have faded away. Gary: > While I can agree with people like Richard Stallman that the very best > work can only come out of GPL-style restrictions, it is also true that > some wonderful software is less restrictive. For example, the BSD > licences and other have no restrictions against arbitrary restrictions This is a different issue. You deny reprints of the original work; BSD gives no restrictions on the original but allows adding restrictions. While I prefer the "restrictive" GPL for my software, BSD is fine with me. If you make your KHG free and allow derived documents to be restricted, it's ok for me. The LDP distributes the free document and you print your extended-enhanced-whatever version as proprietary. Authors that work on the free version are not deprived of their work while authors that work on the publisher's version know that it is not a free document. No traps for anyone. Sorry for the excessive lenght... /alessandro -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id CAA22551 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 02:27:41 +1000 Received: (qmail 6212 invoked by uid 38); 18 Sep 1999 16:27:26 -0000 Resent-Date: 18 Sep 1999 16:27:25 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 11:15:49 -0500 From: Tim Message-Id: <199909181615.LAA17799@wallybox.cei.net> To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Document Updates Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/489 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org New Updates Posted to http://wallybox.cei.net/~tjbynum/LDP/HOWTO/current-updates.html Sat Sep 18 11:15:44 CDT 1999 This message has been 'automagically' posted. Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/HOWTO tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id FAA23282 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 05:06:49 +1000 Received: (qmail 23241 invoked by uid 38); 18 Sep 1999 19:01:24 -0000 Resent-Date: 18 Sep 1999 19:01:24 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: liw@cupido.cs.hut.fi From: Lars Wirzenius MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Subject: But where do we stand on OPL? In-Reply-To: Mail-Copies-To: never X-No-Archive: yes Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 19:02:32 GMT Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-md5"; boundary="127.0.0.1.1000.28111.937681358.256.28621"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Sender: Lars Wirzenius Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/490 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org This is a MIME message. --127.0.0.1.1000.28111.937681358.256.28621 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gary Lawrence Murphy : > I had an email from Alessandro this morning. His understanding is that > a document published under the OPL (esp OPL with the option to reserve > book printing rights) prevents a document from being included in the > LDP. Is this true? What is the stance of the LDP on the open publishing > licence? Yet another licensing debate... If it can't be distributed freely, on whatever medium, it doesn't belong in the LDP. That is not negotiable. -- = Stupid little mailer under construction, sorry for any problems. --127.0.0.1.1000.28111.937681358.256.28621 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: GnuPG v0.9.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iQCVAwUAN+PhzoQRll5MupLRAQH5oAQA070BvHDJbiW2/ZusmwZYOCykZ7WUzhjs 7BkrKqoTphYlnRZiutBKL2YnO1OMdSIRDqCH5fD5IYb4yMLK7Uju4jBtUye1aTR/ oDKTTkiaXcUiYNhpvdWkLJZixfn2Kk5STNE5yf2gmHIOIJUdB9UpCsSof4VlQ2JU TihnBDSCX8Y= =YlFa -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --127.0.0.1.1000.28111.937681358.256.28621-- This was a MIME message. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 07:12:41 +1000 (EST) From: terry@albert Subject: Re: [off topic] Re: Licensing issues To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII On 19 Sep, Gary Lawrence Murphy wrote: > > I humbly offer that the notion of "anyone may modify" is ever so > slightly misunderstood. If a doc is OPL, a teacher can modify it, > edit it, annotate it, and distribute it freely with very little fear > of reprisal, but they cannot slap a cover on it and ship it to Barnes > and Noble under their brand name. Let's be honest: The same is true > of all 'official' Linux distributions. Of course they can. What you suggest is true for Linux distributions isn't true. The RedHat distribution has been picked up, tinkered with slightly, restamped with another another name and sold off. The GPL specifically allows that. Further, there is no such thing as an "official" linux distribution in anybody's mind other than the organisation producing them. "Official" SuSE is only "official" as far as SuSE is concerned, not the wider Linux community for example. > You or I cannot make a contribution to Linux. It is closed. Shut > tight. We are banned from making contributions. We can modify our > local copy, but only Linus and the inner circle can actually change > the official kernel --- all we mere mortals can do is recommend We are free at any time to go and produce a divergent kernel release if we wish. The reason this hasn't happened in any tanglible form has nothing to do with inability, there just hasn't been a big enough justification for anyone to do it yet. > This is why we have the issue of contacting the original doc > maintainer. We have the issue of contacting the original doc maintainer because of copyright, not because of licensing. > It is also true that we can create a derived Linux, which is what > RedHat and others do when they apply their own patches and ship under > their own brand name, but we cannot change any of those other derived > Linux proucts, we can only derive our own. Further, OpenLinux, RH, > Turbo and the others are all derived works, but they are often not > compatible with tux.org Linux; not even the mainstream distros can > modify official linux. Now you have me confused. What is 'official linux' in your mind? I think you're confused. > The publishers want elements of this: They want to ensure any changes > to their 'official' edition are submitted to them as patches and > recommendations, and my plan for their process is to also let them > commission 'official' incremental revisions. Hmm... I think in that case the publishers want to be commissioning their own documents then. I can understand a publishing company wanting to protect the value it adds to a document: indexing, editing, high quality illustration, typesetting, binding etc. but I don't see how it wins anything by wanting control of the document content. > I want to see never-ending books, where the next shipment to Barnes > and Noble contains all the latest patches. The book never goes out of > print; readers always get the very latest edition. I am, of course, > talking about a complete rewrite of the publishing business model but > it would not be my first tilt at a windmill ;) but you also want to see Barnes and Noble being the only people with that up to date version of the book, right? > this is how RedHat and Caldera carve their niche --- we are a long, > long way from publishers seeing their world this way. Heh, most of the publishing world is, some publishers have the jump on the rest :) > Keep in mind that I can create an LSL-like RedHat distro, but if I > were to copy the package, CD cover and printed materials wrapping Red > Hat 6.0 and put it on the shelf of a local bookstore, I expect I would > hear from Bob Young's lawyers. Of course, that is because the wrapping, the name, and the documentation supplied are not covered by free licenses. You could though, take the CDROM, put it in your own wrapping, write your own documentation and perfectly legitimately put in a bookshelf. Which is what LSL, and others, do. > For the near term, though, and I am open to any alternative plans, the > only path I see to that world is to let publishers 'adopt' specific > documents, and the only consession we need grant them is ownership of > the commercial imprints --- a rule which is actually only included to > protect each publisher from their own collegues. I can't see that working for at least a couple of reasons. Firstly, I can't speak for all of the authors, but I think I'd refuse to enter into any exclusivity with publication of any document I had any authorship for. I'd rather the LDP carried on the way it is, after all, people don't have too much trouble finding LDP material in printed form if they really want it, until the publisher work out a business model that suits. I don't believe the LDP stands to gain much by having commercial publishers come in at the expense of abandoning one of the most important underlying tenets of the LDP, freedom of the works. Secondly, you then need to invent a means of dealing with territorial squabbles. If I, or the LDP, is to be earning any money from the published works then I'll have them printed by the most successful publisher please. regards Terry -- terry@albert.animats.net, terry@linux.org.au From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id IAA04050 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 08:37:24 +1000 Received: (qmail 5213 invoked by uid 38); 18 Sep 1999 22:36:09 -0000 Resent-Date: 18 Sep 1999 22:36:09 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: richard@linsup.com Reply-To: From: "Richard Ames" To: Subject: Author tenure (was RE: LDP bug-tracker) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 08:35:56 +1000 Message-ID: <000f01bf0226$2c01ee00$0200a8c0@perch> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/492 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > -----Original Message----- > From: Tim [mailto:tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net] > Sent: Sunday, 19 September 1999 1:06 > To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org > Subject: Re: LDP bug-tracker > > On a more serious note, the issue I still question is what is supposed to > happen if docs continue to go un-corrected? > > Best Regards, > Tim The HOWTO goes into the unmaintained slot when an author/maintainer is unresponsive, dies, resigns, etc.. The HOWTO coordinator looks for a new author/maintainer.... The original author gets credit (through their listing as the original author(s)). The current author field is blank. Those complaining about the content or the fact there is no 'current author' / maintainer get offered the job :-). Volunteers get sent to consider the unmaintained list. HOWTOs on the unmaintained list get discarded when they become irrelevant. Richard. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id CAA08859 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 02:43:00 +1000 Received: (qmail 21161 invoked by uid 38); 19 Sep 1999 16:42:53 -0000 Resent-Date: 19 Sep 1999 16:42:52 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: garym@maya.dyndns.org Sender: garym@mail.wccweb.com To: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: But where do we stand on OPL? References: From: Gary Lawrence Murphy Date: 19 Sep 1999 12:42:27 -0400 Message-ID: Reply-To: Gary Lawrence Murphy Organization: TeleDynamics --- the Art of Being There X-Url: http://www.teledyn.com/ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/500 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org >>>>> "L" == Lars Wirzenius writes: L> Gary Lawrence Murphy : >> What is the stance of the LDP on the open publishing licence? L> Yet another licensing debate... L> If it can't be distributed freely, on whatever medium, it L> doesn't belong in the LDP. That is not negotiable. Last year, all of the publishers would have said OPL was absurd and was not negotiable, and Tim's editorial on ora.com he is quite firm in his view of the business model for free docs being pure madness. It's unfortunate that they are willing to go half way, while we are not willing to accomodate them, but it is not the end of the world. It's not unprecidented. The FSF has the same rule on all software and docs, and it does quite well without restricted contributions. Since this appears to be a sensitive issue, I won't trouble you about it. I am a little confused, though. On this one point of distribution, LDP has a GPL-like policy, but in a previous email Poet states p> You CAN restrict people. You just can't CHARGE people. and in another, Guylhem writes g> We asked RMS to write a DGPL, it will be ready in a near g> future. g> I think we should prefer it to any other license. g> However, each author would be free to choose *any* other license, g> we could just recommand DGPL. (emphasis is mine) Both these statements imply allowing arbitrary restrictions on authorship, ownership, editorial changes or whatever, and both are consistent with an OPL-B licence; both also allow licences which _are_ in violation of a GPL-like policy and would likely be nixed by RMS. I don't mean to be a pest, I just want to understand the LDP policy so I don't get caught making promises I can't keep. Where _do_ we draw the line? -- Gary Lawrence Murphy TeleDynamics Communications Inc Business Telecom Services : Internet Consulting : http://www.teledyn.com Linux Writers Workshop Archive: http://www.egroups.com/group/linux-hack/ "You don't play what you know; you play what you hear." -- (Miles Davis) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0013 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id EAA09224 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 04:01:51 +1000 Received: (qmail 19784 invoked by uid 38); 19 Sep 1999 17:57:55 -0000 Resent-Date: 19 Sep 1999 17:57:55 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: pjones@metalab.unc.edu X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: pjones owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:57:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul Jones X-Sender: pjones@titan.oit.unc.edu To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Brazil wants docs Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/505 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=99/09/19/0717204 a rousing /. discussion for your appreciation, amusement, and participation ========================================================================== Paul Jones "We must protect our precious bodily fluids!" General Jack D Ripper http://MetaLab.unc.edu/pjones/ at the Site Formerly Known As SunSITE.unc.edu pjones@MetaLab.unc.edu voice: (919) 962-7600 fax: (919) 962-8071 =========================================================================== -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id FAA09605 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 05:19:18 +1000 Received: (qmail 26926 invoked by uid 38); 19 Sep 1999 19:19:11 -0000 Resent-Date: 19 Sep 1999 19:19:11 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 14:08:31 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim To: LDP discuss Subject: Re: Are we good enough ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <8ZXgQ.A.dkG.vcT53@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/508 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Hello, > > > I sent the upgrade in both text and HTML format. I'm sending it again -- > > > for the fourth time. > > Again....I only received the doc in text format. This was *me* repeating myself in regards to the original post. Yves and I have since worked things out and the document was processed at: Processed: Sun Sep 19 07:20:02 CDT 1999 Best Regards, Tim Bynum -- Linux HOWTO coordinator http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/HOWTO tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id FAA09621 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 05:21:03 +1000 Received: (qmail 27211 invoked by uid 38); 19 Sep 1999 19:20:55 -0000 Resent-Date: 19 Sep 1999 19:20:55 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 14:10:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim To: LDP discuss Subject: Re: Are we good enough ? In-Reply-To: <19990919205405.A1209@victis.oeil.qc.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/509 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > I remember that story ; I asked you to post the sgml source to > ldp-discuss. > > I'm subscribed to the list but I never see any message from you. > > > Correct, I never received your message. Still, I wrote to you at least > > three times about this; did all three replies get lost? > > I think because I didn't see any of these replies. The issue is closed.......moving on. :) Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/HOWTO tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:01:17 +1000 (EST) From: terry@albert Subject: Re: [off topic] Re: Licensing issues To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII On 20 Sep, Gary Lawrence Murphy wrote: > With wider community considers the tux.org as an official distro, and > you and I cannot take that, change it, and redistribute it as tux.org > Linux. We can, of course, the licence allows it, but it would be > foolish to do so. Not so foolish, and I'll go so far as to predict that it will occur in a significant way within the next twelve months or so. Anybody can influence the official kernel development direction by becoming part of the "inner circle" .. if you or I don't have the skill/ideas to be there then it is probably good that we aren't. None of this is a rights issue though. > Right now, the LDP is the raw material from which all the publishers > are excavating ore, refining and coallating it, indexing and organizing > it, and then selling it solely for the benefit of the authors and the > publisher --- the information they list is not their invention, and > although the authors are doing considerable work to sift the broken and > outdated from the gems, I would be a lot happier if the end result was > folded back to improve the LDP in some way; right now, and I include all > of the publishers, we're being stripmined and outstripped. At least one publisher is doing precisely what you'd hope, filtering their stuff back into the OpenSource work and has been since day one. I will personally oppose any attempt to have LDP works published under any sort of exclusive contract. I'd sooner see the LDP materials un-published in paper form (which won't happen, there will be people that will publish them) than have the LDP compromise on the issue of freedom. Stallman didn't get the GNU project kicking along by being compromising on licensing freedom. Terry -- terry@albert.animats.net, terry@linux.org.au From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:08:26 +1000 (EST) From: terry@albert Subject: Re: Licensing issues To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org In-Reply-To: <199909201538.LAA01550@chef.meridian.redhat.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII On 20 Sep, Donnie Barnes wrote: > Folks, look. This has been beaten to death here and on many other > mailing lists. Documentation is not software. Sure, in some cases it > is *like* software when folks are collaborating to work on it. Most > of the time that is *not* the case, however. Where it is the case, > folks can certainly license their docs so that they are modifiable if > they wish. .. and no concensus was reached then, at least not on the ldp-l list. Collaboration is completely irrelevant to the definition. > I don't care to go into the debate on why we need to avoid this *again*. > Suffice it to say that documentation IS NOT software. Leave people the > ability to choose and let the LDP have the most useful documentation it > can reasonably have. Unmodifiable documents are uneditable/untransformable/untypesettable documents. Documents must be modifiable if they are to published in any form other than that which the author produces. Terry -- terry@albert.animats.net, terry@linux.org.au From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id BAA15254 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 01:18:58 +1000 Received: (qmail 7982 invoked by uid 38); 20 Sep 1999 15:18:28 -0000 Resent-Date: 20 Sep 1999 15:18:28 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:08:04 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim To: LDP discuss Subject: Re: Hard Disk Upgrade Mini How-To In-Reply-To: <199909200549.BAA25868@mail.storm.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/513 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > Unfortunately, it seems that the text version that was posted is not > the version I sent, but rather that the HTML version was converted back > to text. This is what I asked not be done, and what Tim said would > never be done. I don't know why it happened; perhaps it was done > automatically. > > I'm once again sending the text version, in a separate message. Can this > version be posted? Thanks. I do not need another copy of what you have sent. What I needed was you to be more specific as to what it was that you were asking in regards the the text version. Now I know what you were saying, but before it was unclear. All html docs are converted back to txt via a Makefile that produces all output. Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/HOWTO tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id HAA17195 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:38:54 +1000 Received: (qmail 11507 invoked by uid 38); 20 Sep 1999 21:38:38 -0000 Resent-Date: 20 Sep 1999 21:38:38 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: webmaster@aeiwi.com Sender: khs@imf.au.dk Message-ID: <37E6A952.79BE60AE@aeiwi.com> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:38:26 +0200 From: Knud Haugaard =?iso-2022-jp?B?U/hyZW5zZW4=?= Organization: AL&L Technology X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; HP-UX B.10.20 9000/730) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Future goals for LDP, my wish list. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/520 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org I will try to keep this shot an precise. I think that LDP would benefit from a open directory like structure. With editors joining and starting a document.(easy joining) The document should be base on a templet (easy start) depending on what the document is for: tutorial, reference, etc. (maybe XML) All the editing of a document should be possible online. (easy editing) (No need for software downloads, If you got a browser) The reader should be able to attach comments on the document, slashdot style.(easy feedback) All documents should contain meta data, for easy generations of indexes. All documents should have proper chosen meta tag keywords for keywords filtering (EX: http://www.aeiwi.com) All documents be under one license so it can be distributed an used as a whole. The web site might be created with apache + postgresql + php. -- Aeiwi is a search tool with a unique interface. Which let users add more search terms, until they have a small number of results. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id PAA19374 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:29:25 +1000 Received: (qmail 19697 invoked by uid 38); 21 Sep 1999 05:28:57 -0000 Resent-Date: 21 Sep 1999 05:28:56 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: martin.sejkora@creditanstalt.co.at Message-Id: <199909210522.HAA21608@lergontr.server.lan.at> From: SEJKORA Martin To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Licensing issues Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:28:11 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/525 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org To enter something new to this discussion: Why can't we use the Open-Content-License (http://www.opencontent.org/opl.shtml)?? It seems to the right thing. bye Martin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id TAA20554 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 19:53:09 +1000 Received: (qmail 23760 invoked by uid 38); 21 Sep 1999 09:51:51 -0000 Resent-Date: 21 Sep 1999 09:51:51 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: guylhem@victis.oeil.qc.ca Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:28:22 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: LDP discuss Subject: Corel Debian Message-ID: <19990921112822.A956@victis.oeil.qc.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=mP3DRpeJDSE+ciuQ; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/527 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org --mP3DRpeJDSE+ciuQ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I replyied to Corel's call for beta testers, to get a preview CD for the LDP. I think we could write an HOWTO about this distribution. If someone is interested, please tell me. --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Save East Timor: http://altern.org/spoirier/timor.html http://www.pst-timor= .org --mP3DRpeJDSE+ciuQ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN+dPtt+QeWug/qfFAQHJyQP/eKmdC1xI3Ue53jG6OB4wIWNZX6X44lg4 f7661HkIbhIG9CobMTVNo6IFbMMK1UOhB9u/XD+CiCupnDci7tkehgadHOZEXNyo nRV1Zt+h89jlIfiw5j7MjNtZcQxTxdsQDiAp2uLPoNOsLeGDuLfeOiXvYfvAQE6/ foeJDsxe8Yw= =o/Q8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --mP3DRpeJDSE+ciuQ-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id HAA23861 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 07:52:52 +1000 Received: (qmail 4844 invoked by uid 38); 21 Sep 1999 21:41:44 -0000 Resent-Date: 21 Sep 1999 21:41:44 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: andrea@linux.it Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 01:19:08 +0200 From: Andrea Fanfani To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Corel Debian Message-ID: <19990922011907.C288@akela> References: <19990921112822.A956@victis.oeil.qc.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Y7xTucakfITjPcLV" User-Agent: Mutt/1.0pre2i In-Reply-To: <19990921112822.A956@victis.oeil.qc.ca> Resent-Message-ID: <2Dx1EB.A.iLB.Yu_53@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/530 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org --Y7xTucakfITjPcLV Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Sep 21, 1999 at 11:28:22AM +0200, Guylhem Aznar wrote: > Hi, >=20 > I replyied to Corel's call for beta testers, to get a preview CD for the > LDP. >=20 > I think we could write an HOWTO about this distribution. >=20 > If someone is interested, please tell me. >=20 Hi, please consider the announce of problems with GPL and corel distribution on slashdot.org Regards Andrea --=20 Andrea Fanfani andrea@debian.org andrea@linux.it --Y7xTucakfITjPcLV Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE36BJrLGCPReZDN/MRAbCdAJ9np58hanw5dgF32KAEgpt5mskIpwCfbZyf XF8Plnj5ODal4CFefxEJ0tE= =h/op -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Y7xTucakfITjPcLV-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id HAA23884 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 07:56:58 +1000 Received: (qmail 19243 invoked by uid 38); 21 Sep 1999 21:56:51 -0000 Resent-Date: 21 Sep 1999 21:56:50 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: meldroc@frii.com From: "Douglas C. Holland" Reply-To: meldroc@frii.com Organization: FRII To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Linux Font Deuglification Mini-HOWTO Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:52:38 -0600 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <99092115564900.03050@meldroc> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/531 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org I've made a little mini HOWTO, called the XFree86 Font Deuglification HOWTO, after I got fed up with squinting and retching at tiny and ugly fonts on my X display. It's at http://www.frii.com/~meldroc/Font-Deuglification.html Let me know what you think. -- Doug Holland 1010D Remington St. Ft. Collins, CO 80524 970-224-2962 home voice Web: http://www.frii.com/~meldroc/ Email: meldroc@frii.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id PAA26023 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:34:32 +1000 Received: (qmail 5643 invoked by uid 38); 22 Sep 1999 05:34:20 -0000 Resent-Date: 22 Sep 1999 05:34:20 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: poet@linuxports.com Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:43:06 -0700 (PDT) From: "Mr. Poet" X-Sender: jd@crazypenguins.commandprompt.com To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: linuxdoc.dtd Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/536 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org LinuxPorts - http://www.linuxports.com LDP - http://www.linuxdoc.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id RAA00687 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:20:36 +1000 Received: (qmail 25974 invoked by uid 38); 23 Sep 1999 07:20:28 -0000 Resent-Date: 23 Sep 1999 07:20:28 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: robin@debreuil.com Message-ID: <002401bf051f$84e79dc0$0101a8c0@fox> From: "Robin Debreuil" To: References: <199909202101.HAA16947@albert.animats.net> <19990921102713.C17878@albert.animats.net> <19990922085238.B24076@albert.animats.net> <19990922172230.A26291@albert.animats.net> Subject: LDP Logo questions Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 02:25:44 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <6pd0yB.A.pVG.7Sd63@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/542 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Hey everyone, I've been trying a few logos for the LDP and would like to know if you have any opinions about the following: 1) Should "THE" be included in the official name of the LDP? 2) If the logo were to include a character, should the character be reading or writing? (or something else?) If you are interested in having a look I'd love your opinion. http://www.debreuil.com/linux/ and a bunch of discards at: http://www.debreuil.com/linux/ldp_logos.html Negative opinions are more useful than positive! If you would like more info about the contest you can find it at http://www.linuxdoc.org/logocon.html as I'm sure you all know... Thanks, Robin Debreuil -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id PAA06780 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 15:13:39 +1000 Received: (qmail 26006 invoked by uid 38); 24 Sep 1999 05:13:28 -0000 Resent-Date: 24 Sep 1999 05:13:28 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: bf347@lafn.org Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 22:13:12 -0700 Message-Id: <199909240513.AA26265@lafn.org> From: bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer) To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: RE: LDP bug-tracker Reply-To: bf347@lafn.org Resent-Message-ID: <77MLsD.A.NWG.4hw63@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/545 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org M> From: garym@canada.com (Gary Lawrence Murphy) M> Subject: Re: LDP bug-tracker M> To: bf347@lafn.org M> Cc: ldp-discuss@linuxdoc.org M> Reply-To: garym@canada.com (Gary Lawrence Murphy) "D" == David Lawyer wrote: "M" == Gary Lawrence Murphy responded: D> Why do we need a bug-tracker? It's nice to do this for D> software but for documents I'm not so sure. For software, a D> bug keeps some people (or everyone) from using it. For docs D> this is seldom the case. M> With far too many LDP docs, this is exactly the case: Many docs M> describe the system as it was in 1998 and with 2.2, there have been M> many fundamental changes. Although the out-of-date document may be of little use to someone that is using the latest version, one can often find the needed info elsewhere on the web, etc. A bug in the docs can be worked around easier than a bug in the software (which may make using the program infeasible). M> I'm not thinking of the bug-tracking as M> a means to announce fixes as much as a means for visitors to the M> LDP to report an error and propose a fix, then have that info relayed M> to the author. Also, a bug tracker could be used to tell the LDP M> admin people that a fix has been sent and alert them to post it. A reported "bug" with a doc should normally go thru the maintainer/author who may determine that it really isn't a "bug" after all. People who use howtos may not bother to look at the postings re howto bugs. It would be best to append this to the howto, or better, to fix the howto and that's best done by the maintainer. An important bug should result in an update to the howto the next day. This will be more feasible with automated submission. D> ... This may be a lot of unnecessary bother, especially if all D> that was fixed was a typo M> For this case, we need an automated publishing system, perhaps based M> on XML, where small changes to the master archive (CVS?) are simply M> checked in and exported by a periodic cron job. It's simpler for those who don't know anything about CVS to just email in a revised version (which can be automatically uploaded). D> ... I think that the best system is for the author (or D> maintainer) to have a "mailto" url link at the start of the D> howto. M> In my search for authors (I have 40 new books in need of contributors) M> my first line of research is to approach LDP authors because I'd like M> to see them get a bit of pocket money for doing what I already know M> they enjoy. The trouble is, with many HowTos the address is no longer M> valid. Why would an automated bug-tracking system be significantly better in getting a response from the author or maintainer? If the tracking system is able to find the current email of the author, why couldn't the same means of finding the correct email be used to put this updated email address into the doc? D> ... For software bugs it's often desirable D> to have a number of people listening in since they may be able D> to figure out the cause of the bug (or report other symptoms) D> and help fix it. This is seldom the case with docs. M> I disagree. Docs which may be true for RedHat may not be valid for M> LinuxPPC or even for RH Alpha. It's not really a bug if a doc doesn't cover how to do it for PPC or Alpha. Many docs only cover how to do it for PC's. People reporting a problem in a doc usually have a fix for it. What we need is many more howto authors. D> if defects in documents are to be publicized, people might be less D> inclined to write howtos (and also less inclined to release it D> when they should). Someone that wanted to criticize an author D> could gather a lot of ammunition if a bug tracking system D> existed. M> Why would anyone want to maliciously attack the author of a free M> document? It's going too far to call "criticize" a malicious attack. But critical comments which reflect aversely on people happen all the time, including in this newsgroup. Some are justified, others are just teasing, and others are ... Ad hominem attacks are very frequent, just look at politicians. It happened frequently to me when I tried to reform a mismanaged organization. David Lawyer -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id PAA06892 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 15:38:29 +1000 Received: (qmail 18731 invoked by uid 38); 24 Sep 1999 05:37:28 -0000 Resent-Date: 24 Sep 1999 05:37:27 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: rubini@morgana.systemy.it Message-ID: <19990924073657.40888@morgana.systemy.it> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 07:36:57 +0200 From: Alessandro Rubini To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: [off topic] Re: Licensing issues Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/546 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Gary: >> It's the "2B or not 2B" :) meaning of course, paragraph 2b of the >> GPL (1991) Terry: > I'll concede that point. It does talk about cost in dollar sense. Ok, so > you can't take a GPL'd document modify it and sell the document. Sure? When I translated the GPL to Italian, that was the most difficult point. I've been over it for a long time (but didn't ask rms, I didn't dare disturb him). My interpretation is that the *license* must have no cost. But you still can sell the book (or software). GPL: last lines of paragraph 1 till 2B: > You may charge a fee for the physical act of transferring a copy, and > you may at your option offer warranty protection in exchange for a fee. > > 2. You may modify your copy or copies of the Program or any portion > of it, thus forming a work based on the Program, and copy and > distribute such modifications or work under the terms of Section 1 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > above, provided that you also meet all of these conditions: > > a) [... irrelevant here ...] > > b) You must cause any work that you distribute or publish, that in > whole or in part contains or is derived from the Program or any > part thereof, to be licensed as a whole at no charge to all third > parties under the terms of this License. So you can charge for the copy, but the work is licensed to all third parties at no charge (i.e., you are not allowed to charge third parties for the license -- even if you charge your direct recipient). ------------------------- Terry: > In any case, I feel like a lone voice in this discussion. I completely agree with you on this issues. I'm just busy and not so good at expressing my points. So at least we are two. BTW: the next edition of "Linux Device Drivers" will be freely redistributable. We are working on the license terms and I'm pretty happy of the current proposal (however, I fear I'm not allowed to give details, to avoid building specific expectations that may fail or not apply to the final license). /alessandro -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id EAA10391 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 04:51:10 +1000 Received: (qmail 12325 invoked by uid 38); 24 Sep 1999 18:50:54 -0000 Resent-Date: 24 Sep 1999 18:50:54 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: bf347@lafn.org Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:50:40 -0700 Message-Id: <199909241850.AA11557@lafn.org> From: bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer) To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: [off topic] Re: Licensing issues Reply-To: bf347@lafn.org Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/548 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org It's been proposed that a book publisher would pay an author for a doc provided that: 1. No one but the publisher may print copies and make money selling them 2. Online (or CD) copies would be still be freely redistributable and modifiable. This is giving the publisher monopoly rights to publish it. With no competition in printed form, the publisher may engage in monopoly pricing resulting in higher prices to the consumer. This benefits the publisher but hurts the consumer. Making the docs equally free for all publishers to print will keep prices down by competition. This is what we should do (I agree with Terry on this). Another (and possibly better) way of keeping consumer prices low would be government regulation which may work best under government ownership (socialism). For example, prices of books in the former USSR were extremely low. (I should know about it as I read Russian and have many Russian books in my bookcase.) It was by no means a perfect system and publishers cut corners by using cheap paper and sometimes didn't adequately edit the content. Would price controls work without government regulation? Would the publisher agree to price the work so that they make no profit and pay no royalties to the authors? I don't think LDP is well enough organized to efficiently administer price controls even if the publishers agreed to submit to them. Now there is the problem of monetary incentives for authors and again I propose that we ask governments and foundations for money. This is better than getting money from publishers and would keep docs fully free. Governments could also publish the docs but would not have exclusive rights to print it. I would like to hear ideas as to how such money would be distributed to authors. I think that it should consist of awards for good docs after they are written (or modified). The award would depend on both the quality and importance of the doc. Who will judge them? Having a blue-ribbon panel might be too costly if the panel is paid. Readers can judge provided they are savvy. For example, a naive reader may read a clearly written doc and rate it as excellent, not realizing that it has a lot of errors and omissions. Another problem arises when one selects a savvy reader to evaluate a doc and the reader knows the author. "Knows" may mean either "likes" of "dislikes" and this will introduce bias in the evaluation. If A has been unjustly flamed by B, A is apt to be biased in evaluating B's work. Note that the importance of a doc doesn't always depend on the number of people who use it. If the doc covers the use of an important development tool that few people use, it may be very valuable if a large number of people use the results of what that tool created. For example, a program (and docs) for machine translation of languages might only be used by a few people, but the resulting translations might be used by very large numbers of people. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id EAA10421 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 04:57:15 +1000 Received: (qmail 14962 invoked by uid 38); 24 Sep 1999 18:54:22 -0000 Resent-Date: 24 Sep 1999 18:54:22 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: bf347@lafn.org Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:54:08 -0700 Message-Id: <199909241854.AA12166@lafn.org> From: bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer) To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: [off topic] Re: Licensing issues (continued) Reply-To: bf347@lafn.org Resent-Message-ID: <3lKiRB.A.cpD.dj863@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/549 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org I would like to propose a "Free Documentation Definition" (FDD). After it's adopted by us, new docs for LDP would need to conform to it. Also, if the government were to give awards for good docs they would need to have licenses that conform to FDD. The definition should be such that all FDD documents are inter-operable in the sense that you may extract parts from FDD docs and put them into other FDD docs. Note that a present, I don't think any existing licenses conform to what I think the FDD should be. But DGPL might if it's revised. Here's what I think a Free Document is: 1. Anyone who has a copy may freely copy it (in any medium) and give away (or sell) the copies. 2. The entire document source must be freely available in a format which can be readily processed with free software. 3. Ultimately, anyone may extract parts of it (possibly modify such parts) and put them into another (or a new) FDD doc. 4. There may be some rules regarding modification to prevent unnecessary forks in the document. You may be only allowed to modify a doc if there are good reasons for doing so such as: a. The maintainer has refused to incorporate your suggestions. b. The maintainer can't be located or is non-responsive. c. You've modified the software to which the document pertains and modifications are needed immediately to explain the modified software. 5. A FDD license could only have a certain allowed set of restrictions in it (some have been mentioned above). Other restrictions/provisions (such as a termination clause) would not be allowed. Thus the FDD would list things the the license must allow (e.g. free copying). It would list optional restrictions/permissions. Any other provisions (restricitons/permissions) could not be in the license. The word "restriction" can have double meaning since what is restrictive to the distributor may be less restrictive to the consumer and conversely. For example, public domain doc does not restrict the modification of it nor the copyrighting of such a modification. But it's restrictive on public access to the copyrighted modified doc since the public may not be able to freely get the modified doc due copyright law. Note that the above outline is *not* a draft of a proposed Free Documentation Definition. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id AAA16472 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 00:48:44 +1000 Received: (qmail 30627 invoked by uid 38); 25 Sep 1999 14:48:21 -0000 Resent-Date: 25 Sep 1999 14:48:21 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: poet@linuxports.com Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 07:57:40 -0700 (PDT) From: "Mr. Poet" X-Sender: jd@crazypenguins.commandprompt.com To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-ID: Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/551 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org I think the below says it all :) LinuxPorts - http://www.linuxports.com LDP - http://www.linuxdoc.org ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 09:33:35 -0400 From: Joe Vandervest To: poet@linuxports.com Subject: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site Joshua: You have done a wonderful job with the rehash of the site. More of a modernization. The HOWTO changes at the very top have been very helpful. The LDP Team is providing such an excellent service to the community! Thanks to the LDP and other efforts, Linux is finally getting the attention it deserves. Though I'm just a "consumer" in the process - my hats off to you! joe vandervest -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id DAA17092 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 03:07:40 +1000 Received: (qmail 21085 invoked by uid 38); 25 Sep 1999 17:07:31 -0000 Resent-Date: 25 Sep 1999 17:07:31 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: vuksan@cs.unm.edu Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 11:07:25 -0600 (MDT) From: Vladimir Vuksan cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <2A_wbB.A.HJF.SFQ73@murphy> To: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/552 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org On Sat, 25 Sep 1999, Mr. Poet wrote: > I think the below says it all :) > > You have done a wonderful job with the rehash of the site. More of a > modernization. > > The HOWTO changes at the very top have been very helpful. > > The LDP Team is providing such an excellent service to the community! > > Thanks to the LDP and other efforts, Linux is finally getting the attention > it deserves. > > Though I'm just a "consumer" in the process - my hats off to you! I am glad end users are happy with the new site however I as an HOWTO author am not happy with LDP. I have submitted some changes to my HOWTO and was promised they would be uploaded on Wednesday. Well, they are not. Maybe in about two months (the average time it takes from my experience) they might. Would you call the a smashing success ? Vladimir -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id EAA17413 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 04:11:38 +1000 Received: (qmail 18532 invoked by uid 38); 25 Sep 1999 18:11:28 -0000 Resent-Date: 25 Sep 1999 18:11:28 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: rfenwick@plymouth.ac.uk From: "Rob Fenwick" Organization: University of Plymouth To: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org, Vladimir Vuksan Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 19:09:55 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd) Reply-to: robf@asduk.com CC: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Priority: normal References: In-reply-to: Message-Id: Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/553 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > I am glad end users are happy with the new site however I as an HOWTO > author am not happy with LDP. I have submitted some changes to my HOWTO > and was promised they would be uploaded on Wednesday. Well, they are not. > Maybe in about two months (the average time it takes from my experience) > they might. Would you call the a smashing success ? I'd say that's unrepresentative of the norm - let's not forget the major hassles they've had at LDP recently :) Rob Fenwick ------------------ Online Editor, Linux Answers Magazine http://www.futurenet.co.uk -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id EAA17534 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 04:39:03 +1000 Received: (qmail 3004 invoked by uid 38); 25 Sep 1999 18:38:55 -0000 Resent-Date: 25 Sep 1999 18:38:55 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: vuksan@cs.unm.edu Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 12:38:50 -0600 (MDT) From: Vladimir Vuksan cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: To: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/554 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org On Sat, 25 Sep 1999, Rob Fenwick wrote: > > I am glad end users are happy with the new site however I as an HOWTO > > author am not happy with LDP. I have submitted some changes to my HOWTO > > and was promised they would be uploaded on Wednesday. Well, they are not. > > Maybe in about two months (the average time it takes from my experience) > > they might. Would you call the a smashing success ? > > I'd say that's unrepresentative of the norm - let's not forget the > major hassles they've had at LDP recently :) I am not sure what hassles you are referring to but my personal hassle (and I know of at least dozen other people) has been going on for past few months. It is also not something LDP leaders have been unaware of. There has been quite a bit of discussion about it on linux-doc, techwriters and also offers from individuals and organizations to help out. For instance metalab has offered CVS repository for LDP authors so that documents can be updated more quickly and efficiently. I am told that they received no response to their offer. It seems to me that LDP leadership is doing their own thing and not really paying any attention to the authors. Vladimir -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id EAA17578 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 04:47:50 +1000 Received: (qmail 5950 invoked by uid 38); 25 Sep 1999 18:47:42 -0000 Resent-Date: 25 Sep 1999 18:47:42 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: rfenwick@plymouth.ac.uk From: "Rob Fenwick" Organization: University of Plymouth To: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org, Vladimir Vuksan Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 19:45:59 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd) Reply-to: robf@asduk.com CC: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Priority: normal References: In-reply-to: Message-Id: Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/555 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > It seems to me that LDP > leadership is doing their own thing and not really paying any attention to > the authors. I'm not a HOWTO author myself, so I doubt I can comment too exclusively. However, I think you're being a little unfair, seeing that there's been some changes at LDP leadership, and perhaps people are finding their feet? :) #Always look on the bright side of life.... Rob Fenwick ------------------ Online Editor, Linux Answers Magazine http://www.futurenet.co.uk -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id FAA17763 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 05:28:25 +1000 Received: (qmail 4375 invoked by uid 38); 25 Sep 1999 19:28:17 -0000 Resent-Date: 25 Sep 1999 19:28:17 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: vuksan@cs.unm.edu Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 13:28:09 -0600 (MDT) From: Vladimir Vuksan To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/556 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org On Sat, 25 Sep 1999, Rob Fenwick wrote: > > It seems to me that LDP > > leadership is doing their own thing and not really paying any attention to > > the authors. > > I'm not a HOWTO author myself, so I doubt I can comment too > exclusively. > > However, I think you're being a little unfair, seeing that there's > been some changes at LDP leadership, and perhaps people are finding > their feet? :) > > #Always look on the bright side of life.... I do usually look on the bright side but after you spend a lot of our updating, editing your documentations and after never receiving any response from the LDP maintainers and after waiting two months to have a HOWTO commited and had promises broken I think I have to right to be critical. Maybe they have had trouble adjusting to their new roles after the changes but they should have said something. They could have e-mailed a nice letter to all the authors saying what the situation was, what they are doing about it and what is the time frame for it. I would have been happy really happy since I would know what is going on and would have been kept "in the loop". So my question to you is, if you had to put up with that kind of stuff in a normal (paid) job would you put up with it ? I wouldn't. Writing documentation is not easy and I certainly could find better uses for my time if I will be treated like dirt. Vladimir -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id FAA17816 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 05:38:17 +1000 Received: (qmail 8677 invoked by uid 38); 25 Sep 1999 19:38:07 -0000 Resent-Date: 25 Sep 1999 19:38:07 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: rfenwick@plymouth.ac.uk From: "Rob Fenwick" Organization: University of Plymouth To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org, Vladimir Vuksan Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 20:36:16 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd) Reply-to: robf@asduk.com Priority: normal References: In-reply-to: Message-Id: Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/558 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > So my question to you is, if you had to put > up with that kind of stuff in a normal (paid) job would you put up with it > ? I wouldn't. Unfortunately, as an online ed blokey, and general I.T. journo, I do, regularly. Obviously the site redesign is their priority at the moment, but I absolutely understand what you're saying, and I don't think an e-mail to the HOWTO authors would go amiss. > Writing documentation is not easy and I certainly could find better uses > for my time if I will be treated like dirt. But just think of the prestige ;) Rob Fenwick ------------------ Online Editor, Linux Answers Magazine http://www.futurenet.co.uk -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id GAA18490 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 06:45:03 +1000 Received: (qmail 21875 invoked by uid 38); 25 Sep 1999 20:44:55 -0000 Resent-Date: 25 Sep 1999 20:44:55 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: vern@zebra.alphacdc.com Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 14:44:08 -0600 Message-Id: <199909252044.OVH30542@zebra.alphacdc.com> From: Vern Hoxie To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Help compiling SGML Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/559 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org I recently downloded "sgmltools-2.0.2" and I have several fatal errors while trying to build it. First, there references to several "*.sty" files which are not in the "web2c-7.2" distribution of TeX. Should these be changed to something which is in the current TeX distribution? Where can I get the files which are referenced? Second, there is was fatal error in "SgmlParser.cxx" in "cvs/jade/lib". I sent copies of the error messages to Cees A. de Groot a week ago and have yet to hear from him. Does anyone have any suggestions/fixes? I would like to format and submit my revised version of the Serial-Programming-HOWTO. vern -- Vernon C. Hoxie vern@zebra.alphacdc.com 3975 W. 29th Ave. uucp: 303-455-2670 Denver, Colo., 80212 voice: 303-477-1780 There is nothing so dangerous for manipulators as people who think for themselves. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id KAA31532 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 10:30:19 +1000 Received: (qmail 10860 invoked by uid 38); 26 Sep 1999 00:30:12 -0000 Resent-Date: 26 Sep 1999 00:30:12 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: andres@ctv.es Old-X-Envelope-To: Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 02:31:36 +0200 From: Andres Seco Hernandez To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Current working on diald howto Message-ID: <19990926023136.B2864@virgo> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=+pHx0qQiF2pBVqBT; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i X-DSS/DH-KeyID: 0x3A48C934 X-PGP-DH/DSS: X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux 2.1 (slink) 2.0.36 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/562 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org --+pHx0qQiF2pBVqBT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all. I would like to write a diald howto to expand the diald mini howto that Harish Pillay wrote in 1996, colaborating with her to update it. I have been searching in the ldp and over the internet about current working updating that mini howto, to avoid lose my job, but i haven't found anything. If you are working in the diald howto, please, tell me, and i could help you with some of my suggestions. If nobody is working on it, i want to tell you that in some weeks i will give you the new updated diald howto. Bye. --=20 --------------------------------------------------------------- Andres Seco Hernandez - AndresSH@ctv.es http://www.ctv.es/USERS/andressh --------------------------------------------------------------- Microsoft Certified Product Specialist MCP ID 445900 Debian GNU Linux 2.1 (slink) - Linux Registered User no. 113867 --------------------------------------------------------------- 09/27 The first passenger was hauled in a locomotive in England, 1825 --+pHx0qQiF2pBVqBT Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use MessageID: XfsdMgMJelcUnzC+iLORqZfw+rHQ0vdU iQA/AwUBN+1pZ+2svgs6SMk0EQLuLgCeLG+G6ZTwCcrM/nFSbZ2nq3Xd9eMAoKhC 8pSD/O2KOnMl/MWWsQWU9rKe =7daN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --+pHx0qQiF2pBVqBT-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id NAA32393 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 13:17:24 +1000 Received: (qmail 8523 invoked by uid 38); 26 Sep 1999 03:17:16 -0000 Resent-Date: 26 Sep 1999 03:17:16 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: vern@zebra.alphacdc.com Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 21:16:28 -0600 Message-Id: <199909260316.VVH30951@zebra.alphacdc.com> From: Vern Hoxie To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Help compiling SGML Cc: Hugo.van.der.Kooij@caiw.nl Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/564 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org On Sun, 26 Sep 1999, Hugo van der Kooij wrote: > On Sat, 25 Sep 1999, Vern Hoxie wrote: > >> I recently downloded "sgmltools-2.0.2" and I have several fatal >> errors while trying to build it. > > .... > >> I sent copies of the error messages to Cees A. de Groot a week ago and >> have yet to hear from him. Does anyone have any suggestions/fixes? > > Subscribe to the sgmltools mailinglist. Fine! Now Where?? When?? How?? verm -- Vernon C. Hoxie vern@zebra.alphacdc.com 3975 W. 29th Ave. uucp: 303-455-2670 Denver, Colo., 80212 voice: 303-477-1780 There is nothing so dangerous for manipulators as people who think for themselves. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id OAA00312 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 14:31:30 +1000 Received: (qmail 31268 invoked by uid 38); 26 Sep 1999 04:31:22 -0000 Resent-Date: 26 Sep 1999 04:31:22 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: bf347@lafn.org Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 21:31:07 -0700 Message-Id: <199909260431.AA29895@lafn.org> From: bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer) To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site Reply-To: bf347@lafn.org Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/565 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org In my case, the new site is unusable. My browser will not go there since the IP number is shared for more than one domain. There is no easy way for me to fix this other than buying a new computer and getting a different method of internet access. My lynx browser (not really mine since it resides at a BBS that will not update it) is an old version. I can, however, get to a mirror site. But the lynx browser only shows a few lines from the first screenful. Formerly it showed many lines and 10 times as much info. I suppose that's because you put some graphics on it. So for me the site is worse than previously. I never commented on this previously since in a way it's my fault for having old hardware (I use dumb terminals that requires the use of lynx). But being the author of Text-Terminal-HOWTO I consider it my duty to keep using terminals --besides my hard drive makes so much noise it makes my ears ring and I've located my terminals far away from it. David Lawyer -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id PAA00648 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 15:38:34 +1000 Received: (qmail 23620 invoked by uid 38); 26 Sep 1999 05:38:25 -0000 Resent-Date: 26 Sep 1999 05:38:25 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: apharris@burrito.onshore.com Sender: apharris@burrito.onshore.com To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Debian Doc Project and LDP -- hail and well-met From: Adam Di Carlo Date: 26 Sep 1999 01:38:49 -0400 Message-ID: Lines: 43 User-Agent: Gnus/5.070096 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.96) Emacs/20.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/567 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Hey, you guys may be interested to know that I've stepped up as the new leader of the Debian Documentation Project, or DDP. URL is currently http://www.debian.org/~elphick/ddp/ but that will probably be integrated into www.debian.org/devel/ddp or some such in a month or so. Anyhow, I'd just like to open this channel of communication between the LDP and the DDP. I know we have different goals and some different problems and even different tools, but our ultimate goal is the same: Better documentation for Free Software Users! (Linux or otherwise) I know there has been some issues and misunderstandings in the past. I'd like to put forth my opinions a bit here, in itemized form: - the DDP should not overlap the LDP in any way; any efforts for general Linux documentation or free software documentation should go as far upstream as possible, that is, and not excluded to, sending patches to LDP maintainers and upstream software maintainers. This outlook is nothing less than what is required by the Debian Social Contract. - I personally feel that more efforts should be made to bring translators into the mainstream. CVS access, and the proper use of SGML (separating language-independant from language-dependant material) can help this effort a lot. - [purely opinion here, no official status to this] I feel that LDP HOWTOs should be distribution-neutral insofar as possible. Most issues experienced by users are the same no matter the distribution. "Installation HOWTOs", I feel, should be maintained in general by the distributions rather than the LDP. General issues (i.e., Hardware HOWTO, Ethernet HOWTO) should be handled by the LDP. I try to read this list and keep up, but always feel free to CC if you feel the message is of interested to Debian developers. -- .....Adam Di Carlo....adam@onShore.com..... -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id PAA00665 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 15:40:33 +1000 Received: (qmail 23892 invoked by uid 38); 26 Sep 1999 05:40:26 -0000 Resent-Date: 26 Sep 1999 05:40:26 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: apharris@burrito.onshore.com Sender: apharris@burrito.onshore.com To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: updating web pages from CVS documentation areas -- ideas? From: Adam Di Carlo Date: 26 Sep 1999 01:40:38 -0400 Message-ID: Lines: 15 User-Agent: Gnus/5.070096 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.96) Emacs/20.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <-alfFD.A.G1F.KHb73@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/568 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org BTW, one issue I am considering now is that, given that the DDP has a CVS area for documentation, how to automatically update web materials from CVS such that released versions of documentation propogate to a web page, and that working commits do not. The only way I can think of doing this is by using branches, or by using a special tag. Both are not very satisfatory since (a) they require a lot of discipline from documenters, and (b) I don't know of tools offhand to automate this. How are you guys in the LDP going to handle this? -- .....Adam Di Carlo....adam@onShore.com..... -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id PAA00743 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 15:50:52 +1000 Received: (qmail 27149 invoked by uid 38); 26 Sep 1999 05:49:33 -0000 Resent-Date: 26 Sep 1999 05:49:33 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: vern@zebra.alphacdc.com Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 23:48:40 -0600 Message-Id: <199909260548.XVH31153@zebra.alphacdc.com> From: Vern Hoxie To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: General Positive Feedback Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/571 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org On Sat, 25 Sep 1999, David Lawyer wrote: > In my case, the new site is unusable. My browser will not go there > since the IP number is shared for more than one domain. There is no > easy way for me to fix this other than buying a new computer and > getting a different method of internet access. My lynx browser (not > really mine since it resides at a BBS that will not update it) is an > old version. > More ... My own imoression was that it was very well put together. However, I ran into some problems when I tried to downlod "sgmltools". Netscape provides only a dozen or so characters for a file name. Consequently I couldn't read the entire names. What I got were four file names of "sgmltools....". If you could make links with the version and type in the first spaces it might help. This might require a notation in the greeting message. Also, if a "ftp://ftp.linuxdoc.org" could be opened, we could get the full filename using the standard ftp program. Thanks you for all your efforts. vern -- Vernon C. Hoxie vern@zebra.alphacdc.com 3975 W. 29th Ave. uucp: 303-455-2670 Denver, Colo., 80212 voice: 303-477-1780 There is nothing so dangerous for manipulators as people who think for themselves. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id PAA00760 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 15:53:36 +1000 Received: (qmail 31563 invoked by uid 38); 26 Sep 1999 05:53:29 -0000 Resent-Date: 26 Sep 1999 05:53:29 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: apharris@burrito.onshore.com Sender: apharris@burrito.onshore.com To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Debian Doc Project and LDP -- hail and well-met References: From: Adam Di Carlo Date: 26 Sep 1999 01:54:06 -0400 In-Reply-To: Adam Di Carlo's message of "26 Sep 1999 01:38:49 -0400" Message-ID: Lines: 33 User-Agent: Gnus/5.070096 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.96) Emacs/20.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <8U_vWB.A.9sH.ZTb73@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/572 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Let me clarify two little items which I noticed on re-reading. Really sorry for the spam. Adam Di Carlo writes: > - the DDP should not overlap the LDP in any way; any efforts for > general Linux documentation or free software documentation should > go as far upstream as possible, that is, and not excluded to, > sending patches to LDP maintainers and upstream software > maintainers. This outlook is nothing less than what is required > by the Debian Social Contract. I meant to say, "any Debian-initiated efforts" need to go the LDP and/or upstream. > - [purely opinion here, no official status to this] I feel that LDP > HOWTOs should be distribution-neutral insofar as possible. Most > issues experienced by users are the same no matter the > distribution. "Installation HOWTOs", I feel, should be maintained > in general by the distributions rather than the LDP. General > issues (i.e., Hardware HOWTO, Ethernet HOWTO) should be handled by > the LDP. This is a bit idealistic. I know that there are distribution-dependant elements to HOWTOs, and I do think that it's not inappropriate to include these. Hopefully, such distribution-dependant bits will be clearly marked as such and a balance maintained between the different major distributions (whatever those are). -- .....Adam Di Carlo....adam@onShore.com..... -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id RAA01235 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 17:10:05 +1000 Received: (qmail 26078 invoked by uid 38); 26 Sep 1999 07:09:56 -0000 Resent-Date: 26 Sep 1999 07:09:56 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: vern@zebra.alphacdc.com Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 00:27:42 -0600 Message-Id: <199909260627.AVH31356@zebra.alphacdc.com> From: Vern Hoxie To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Help compiling SGML Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/573 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org On 26 Sep 1999, Adam Di Carlo wrote: > Vern Hoxie writes: > >>> Subscribe to the sgmltools mailinglist. >> >> Fine! >> >> Now Where?? When?? How?? > > See http://www.sgmltools.org/feedback.html Why is necessary to be so cryptic? It took me three days to subscribe to this list, ldp-discuss, because no one bothered to mention that the special incantation needed. Instead of sending subscription requests to "ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org", they had to be sent to "ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org". For what it's worth, everyone doesn't have full time connections to the WWW. vern -- Vernon C. Hoxie vern@zebra.alphacdc.com 3975 W. 29th Ave. uucp: 303-455-2670 Denver, Colo., 80212 voice: 303-477-1780 There is nothing so dangerous for manipulators as people who think for themselves. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id MAA06922 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:42:04 +1000 Received: (qmail 17143 invoked by uid 38); 27 Sep 1999 02:41:57 -0000 Resent-Date: 27 Sep 1999 02:41:57 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: terry@albert.animats.net Message-ID: <19990927124144.A6870@albert.animats.net> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:41:44 +1000 From: Terry Dawson To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Comments on web site. References: <19990927094647.A5846@albert.animats.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Mr. Poet on Sun, Sep 26, 1999 at 06:22:55PM -0700 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/595 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org On Sun, Sep 26, 1999 at 06:22:55PM -0700, Mr. Poet wrote: > Uhmmm.... the link is 1 click... outside of putting the actual howt-howto > on the main page I can not make it any shorter than that. > > Try clicking on: Contribute/Submit on the front page on the left hand > side... The HOWTO is one click, but the actual relevant detail is not. One click gets me to the index of the HOWTO. It's then not entirely obvious from the index where the actual information I want is, but I'll guess at "distibuting your documentation" .. and then tucked away is the single paragraph of information I wanted in the first place .. regards Terry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id UAA09141 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 20:26:39 +1000 Received: (qmail 10446 invoked by uid 38); 27 Sep 1999 08:12:29 -0000 Resent-Date: 27 Sep 1999 08:12:28 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: richard@linsup.com Reply-To: From: "Richard Ames" To: Cc: "Mr. Poet" Subject: LDP web site, etc. Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 18:11:30 +1000 Message-ID: <000e01bf08bf$e7c84220$0200a8c0@perch> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/602 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org I'd like to thank those who are working to reinvigorate the LDP.... Web site: It needs to be more compact. I agree the core team should be mentioned, but possibly the names are one click away. The Samba pages are a good example http://www.samba.org/ The innovation today with the bar down the left is good but also needs to be more concise... I understand the banner ad is supplying the prize for the new Logo, but hope we don't need ads long term... Thanks, Richard. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:32:13 +1000 (EST) From: terry@albert Subject: Re: QC volunteers? (Was: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd)) To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org In-Reply-To: <19990927115120.B1132@victis.oeil.qc.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII > It has been posted by Alessandro Rubini some weeks ago, clearly > explaining the goals and the functions of the members. > (BTW, could it be added to our site ?) I remember it vaguely, it was more your question that I think needs addressing. Terry -- terry@albert.animats.net, terry@linux.org.au From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:55:38 +1000 (EST) From: terry@albert Subject: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd) To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org In-Reply-To: <199909281424.KAA01396@chef.meridian.redhat.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII On 28 Sep, Donnie Barnes wrote: > Pardon me, but you seem to have the word "manifesto" confused with > "license". AFAIK there is *no* LDP "license", and it is my goal to > keep it that way. Well, there certainly can be a suggested one, but > I don't want any required one. > > Again, that's fine with me. The "manifesto" includes guidelines for > minimum acceptability. There are already plenty of licenses out there Donnie, That may have been the intent, but take a careful read of what is actually presented as the Manifesto at the moment and I think you'll see that that isn't what it actually says. I recall Michael "K" (what the heck does that stand for anyway? :) Johnson posting a revised Manifesto some time ago, but I don't recall it looking specifically like what is currently called that. regards Terry -- terry@albert.animats.net, terry@linux.org.au From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:00:33 +1000 (EST) From: terry@albert Subject: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd) To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org In-Reply-To: <990928153858.ZM6631@aphrodite.csed.ida.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII On 28 Sep, David Wheeler wrote: > In practice, the various documents include their own (different) licenses, > but the top-level web pages make it appear that something else is going on. Precisely what I've been trying to point out. There is a whole layer of stuff that has been added over what I remember the original Manifesto looking like and saying that almost completely alters the intent and practise of the LDP. As Joshua himself points out, the website is the most visible aspect of the LDP and what it is saying at the moment I think is completely unrepresentative of what the bulk of LDP authors want and believe. regards Terry -- terry@albert.animats.net, terry@linux.org.au From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:16:54 +1000 (EST) From: terry@albert Subject: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd) To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org In-Reply-To: <19990928112603.C1019@victis.oeil.qc.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII On 28 Sep, Guylhem Aznar wrote: > This would be really counterproductive and "non free", while a short term > exclusivity could make it better for anyone. This is similar to the new MySQL licensing model which I've already publicly stated I'm not opposed to. But, I think there is a world of difference between me thinking the MySQL guys are good guys for finding what I consider to be a pretty good compromise between existing commercial software marketing and serving the free software community, and an organisation like the LDP. The LDP is not a commercial organisation and I don't believe it should compromise its integrity for limited benefit. Let the documents join the LDP *after* the publishing company/whoever has made them free. That I'd be overjoyed with. Have the LDP accept them before then on the basis that one day they will be free? I think that's a sellout of principle. >> This is a little silly to state. Firstly, it's already covered by the >> notion of a free document. Secondly it's only allowable if the license for >> the document in question allows it (kinda the same point from another angle) > > But it is not clear enough. You're suggesting that the existing individual licenses don't state their terms clearly enough? you propose to fix that, not by ammending them, but by adding another organisationally imposed, inconsistent, layer of licensing terms? > Please submit your ideas to David Lawyer who is working on the > manifesto. Great, David is someone who I have some confidence in from a licensing perspective. >> Is there any good reason why we can't use the OpenSource Definition? > > Documentation is not software. Oh please. "In your opinion". Terry -- terry@albert.animats.net, terry@linux.org.au From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:19:30 +1000 (EST) From: terry@albert Subject: Re: QC volunteers? (Was: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd)) To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org In-Reply-To: <19990928111258.A1019@victis.oeil.qc.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII On 28 Sep, Guylhem Aznar wrote: >> If you were to add such a clause then you would immediately invalidate >> large portions of your existing document base from being included in the >> LDP. > > It will only make possible updates to any unmaintained documents. Any unmaintained documents *that already have licenses that will allow you to do this*. Which is next to none. Get ready to rewrite most of the LDP documentation. You cannot impose additional license restrictions on a document unless its' license allows you to. Terry -- terry@albert.animats.net, terry@linux.org.au From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id WAA09817 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:47:31 +1000 Received: (qmail 27562 invoked by uid 38); 27 Sep 1999 12:46:19 -0000 Resent-Date: 27 Sep 1999 12:46:19 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: rubini@morgana.systemy.it Message-ID: <19990927144541.00621@morgana.systemy.it> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:45:41 +0200 From: Alessandro Rubini To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Banner Ads? Banner Ads? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/603 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > What is with the banner ad on the front page of the LDP Home page? It looks like it's what we offered in exchange of the contest prize. > *Please*, don't sell the LDP out. I agree. While I agree we must offer sth for the prize we get, the current setup is definitely bad -- a monitor deserves much less, and in any case we should never offer such a front position to any sponsor. /alessandro -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id BAA10696 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 01:59:09 +1000 Received: (qmail 15220 invoked by uid 38); 27 Sep 1999 15:59:00 -0000 Resent-Date: 27 Sep 1999 15:59:00 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: vio@ving.org From: To: Date: må, 27 sep 1999 14:17:30 Message-Id: <706.198882.391389@server02> Subject: Suomalainen E-postirekisteri Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/607 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Tietokeskuksestamme voit nyt ostaa E-postiluettelon, joka sisältää 50.000 sekä ksityishenkilöiden että yritysten osoitetta Suomessa. Osoiteitta voit vapaasti käyttää mainostaessasi tuotteitasi tai palveluitasi. Lähetä E-posti ja anna tuleville asiakkaillesi tietoa kotisivustasi ja toiminnastasi. E-postista on tullut menestyksellisin, halvin ja voimaperäisin markkinointitapa. Halutessasi tilata luettelon katso Internetistä: http://home.swipnet.se/tolea/finn -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id IAA12724 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 08:43:24 +1000 Received: (qmail 14512 invoked by uid 38); 27 Sep 1999 22:43:17 -0000 Resent-Date: 27 Sep 1999 22:43:17 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: vuksan@cs.unm.edu Sender: vuksan@cs.unm.edu Message-ID: <37EFF2FF.73ABB135@cs.unm.edu> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:43:11 -0600 From: Vladimir Vuksan X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.10 i686) X-Accept-Language: hr, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Reasons for wanting to remove my documents Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/623 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Since Guylhem posted my request to remove my documents on ldp-discuss and got few e-mails asking me why I have decided to do it I have decided to mail this to the whole list. I maintain two mini-HOWTOs, Cable Modem mini-HOWTO and DHCP mini-HOWTO. One of the main reasons for writing and updating these documents that after getting a cable modem connection two years ago I spent countless hours to get it running since the documentation available was non-existant or insufficient. As a way of contributing to Linux and saving some people time and nerves I decided to write those two documents. They were consequently included as part of LDP. Initially everything worked well, I would submit my document and it would appear on the LDP web site within a week. Few months ago I started noticing that my updates either wouldn't make it to the LDP or would be posted with an extremely long delay. One of the updates during the summer took about two months. On numerous occasions I sent e-mail to the Tim (the howto maintainer) asking him what was the status of the update or whether there were any problems with the document. I never received a single response. Most of my documentation changes fairly often, especially Cable Modem mini-HOWTO so having updates every two months is simply not acceptable. For instance on one occasion I had a typo in a command which a number of readers pointed out (e.g. /etc/dhcp.leases instead of /etc/dhcpd.leases) which I fixed but took two months to actually make it to LDP (are we Microsoft or what). I took the issue to the linux-doc mailing list and discovered that there were a lot of people having the very same problem, unresponsivness of the LDP team. This has made me really bitter. Few weeks ago I read Matt Welsh's post on Slashdot and LinuxToday and thought things have changed and that finally things were going for the better. Unfortunately I was wrong. Things still get posted with a 2 week delay and two of my updates disappeared. I have also learned that metalab has offered to host a CVS server for LDP and had the server set up but LDP leadership declined the offer, why I have no idea but that doesn't bring me much comfort. Also I learned that Open Source Writers Group (http://www.thepuffingroup.com/oswg/) is planning on setting up a site for open source documentation and so far they seem to be much more responsive so I'll wait and give them a try. So in short I have decided that my sanity has precedence over LDP :-). Actually as I am writing this I feel way better. Vladimir -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id XAA16916 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 23:52:51 +1000 Received: (qmail 4925 invoked by uid 38); 28 Sep 1999 13:52:40 -0000 Resent-Date: 28 Sep 1999 13:52:40 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: vuksan@cs.unm.edu Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 07:52:33 -0600 (MDT) From: Vladimir Vuksan cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Reasons for wanting to remove my documents In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: To: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/633 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org On Tue, 28 Sep 1999, Morten Kjeldgaard wrote: > I think you should give the new LDP team a chance to get organized, and > see how things are going before you go to such drastic steps as pulling > your document out of the LDP. By doing so, you are really only hurting the > Linux community. Please don't! > > > delay and two of my updates disappeared. I have also learned that > > metalab has offered to host a CVS server for LDP and had the server set > > up but LDP leadership declined the offer, why I have no idea but that > > If this is correct, that is certainly a _very_ poor decision that needs to > be reconsidered. Using CVS, authors could save time answering emails from > people, and spend it fixing bugs and updating the documentation. Unfortunately the impression I got was that the new LDP has a gotten the focus of LDP completely wrong. Instead of focusing on the documentation aspect of the project by providing the best documentation possible e.g. making the life of the authors easier LDP chooses to concentrate on completely superficial things such as the graphic layout of the web site. The CVS we are told will be up in about three weeks while an existing CVS site (metalab) is turned down. So I feel there is a pattern already showing and based on my previous experience I feel that there is a high probability history will repeat itself. I am not planning on abandoning my documents, they simply will not be available through LDP. I think there are couple of promising new projects that seem to be more in tune with their authors. Vladimir -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id FAA18499 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 05:39:41 +1000 Received: (qmail 20966 invoked by uid 38); 28 Sep 1999 19:39:32 -0000 Resent-Date: 28 Sep 1999 19:39:32 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: wheeler@ida.org From: "David Wheeler" Message-Id: <990928153858.ZM6631@aphrodite.csed.ida.org> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 15:38:58 -0400 In-Reply-To: Donnie Barnes "Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd)" (Sep 28, 10:24am) References: <199909281424.KAA01396@chef.meridian.redhat.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (5.0.0 30July97) To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/639 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Donnie Barnes wrote: >Pardon me, but you seem to have the word "manifesto" confused with "license". Perhaps; I think the problem is that the web page is confusing. I'm quoting "http://www.linuxdoc.org/copyright.html". The first thing it says is "Please read the license carefully--", and it says that it is the "Linux Documentation Project Copying License". It sure LOOKS like a license. >AFAIK there is *no* LDP "license", and it is my goal to >keep it that way. Well, there certainly can be a suggested one, but >I don't want any required one. Okay. Actually, we agree on that. In practice, the various documents include their own (different) licenses, but the top-level web pages make it appear that something else is going on. That top-level web page should state that "all LDP documents are released under the terms of their own license". >Whoa! Watch your quoting, pal. I didn't write any of the above Mea culpa! I'm sorry, I didn't mean to misrepresent what you said. My apologies; no offense intended. -- --- David A. Wheeler wheeler@ida.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id HAA19128 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 07:25:57 +1000 Received: (qmail 28143 invoked by uid 38); 28 Sep 1999 21:25:30 -0000 Resent-Date: 28 Sep 1999 21:25:30 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: mmoellering@mail.recor.com Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990928162453.0092da50@mail.recor.com> X-Sender: mmoellering@mail.recor.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 16:24:53 -0500 To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org, ldp-announce@lists.linuxdoc.org, ldp-docbook@lists.linuxdoc.org From: Mike Moellering Subject: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/640 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org subscribe -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id HAA19127 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 07:25:56 +1000 Received: (qmail 28153 invoked by uid 38); 28 Sep 1999 21:25:30 -0000 Resent-Date: 28 Sep 1999 21:25:30 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: mmoellering@mail.recor.com Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990928162453.0092da50@mail.recor.com> X-Sender: mmoellering@mail.recor.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 16:24:53 -0500 To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org, ldp-announce@lists.linuxdoc.org, ldp-docbook@lists.linuxdoc.org From: Mike Moellering Subject: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-announce@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5 X-Loop: ldp-announce@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-announce-request@lists.debian.org subscribe -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-announce-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 17:18:56 +1000 (EST) From: terry@albert Subject: Re: Final Farewell?? To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII On 28 Sep, Mr. Poet wrote: > Imagine that, a member on this list finally speaking his mind to > the truth. That sort of arrogance doesn't further public opinion of you. Just who on this list do you think isn't speaking their mind truthfully? I will say, it was nice to see you actually come out from behind the facade you normally present and post with your real name in another message. Terry -- terry@albert.animats.net, terry@linux.org.au From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id OAA21439 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:35:55 +1000 Received: (qmail 10328 invoked by uid 38); 29 Sep 1999 04:35:14 -0000 Resent-Date: 29 Sep 1999 04:35:13 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: vuksan@cs.unm.edu Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 22:35:05 -0600 (MDT) From: Vladimir Vuksan cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: QC volunteers? (Was: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd)) In-Reply-To: <199909290030.AA27049@lafn.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: To: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/652 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org On Tue, 28 Sep 1999, David Lawyer wrote: > We don't have to remove them unless we want to. This is because the > license permits free distribution and it can't be revoked except by legal > means such as a court order or by a termination clause in the license. > (There's no termination clause in these, I've checked). The license is a > contract which in this case is between the author and the LDP (or between > the author and Tim Bynum if you want to argue that the LDP is not a legal > entity). Now anyone who has a copy may make copies and give them away. > That's what we're (or Tim) is doing by putting it at Metalab. The reason why I have requested removal of the documents is that among other things the documents are outdated and I hate having outdated documents laying around. If that is not an option than at least I would request that you remove my e-mail address from the document since I don't want to get any more e-mails about issues I have already addressed which I get these days courteousy of LDP. I have submitted two updates to the Cable Modem mini-HOWTO (last version on LDP site is date June 22nd) and I have neither the patience or the time to play the blame game with Tim or Guylhem about where the documents are and when they will finally institute a decent update system. > However, the author is not required to maintain it (unless he agreed to > do so in the license which he didn't). Can someone else maintain it? > They could if the license said anyone could modify it. The license in > these docs is exactly the same license that Tim Bynum uses for his > HOWTO-INDEX (which he wrote). The paragraph on "derivative works" says > that derivative works must use the same license (Tim called it a > "copyright notice"). This seems to imply that permission to make derived > works has been granted even though it doesn't state this explicitly. > > The author can always modify his own work and put it under another license. > Anyway, I plead with Vladimir Vuksan to reconsider. I've suffered > delays in the past up to 2 months but recently my stuff got to Metalab in > only a few days. I am really sceptical. I don't want to be left to Tim's mercy anymore. I want to be able to update my own documents, if that is not possible sorry I am out of here and no middle of October is not a good answer since I can set up a CVS server and all the necessary LDP scripts in about a day. LDP leadership obviously has other priorities. Vladimir -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id OAA21484 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:44:43 +1000 Received: (qmail 12866 invoked by uid 38); 29 Sep 1999 04:44:35 -0000 Resent-Date: 29 Sep 1999 04:44:35 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 23:38:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Final Farewell?? In-Reply-To: <199909290124.VAA02922@chef.meridian.redhat.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/653 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Hello to all, Let me just preface this by saying that these are my views and comments and mine alone, not those of the LDP. I'm not asking for pity, nor a shoulder to cry on. I've sat back and watched once again as my name and the job I do get dragged through the mud. This time I can't and will not sit back and watch this happen *again* and turn my back. As for the complaints and removing of documents , all I can say is this, I'm sorry for the problems that occured and I'm sorry that he felt that he needed to be 1) rude and 2) disrespectful not only to me, but all others subscribed to the list. This is my personal opinion and not necessarily those of others, so don't go blaming the LDP for the comments that I am making. These are *not* the views of the LDP, these are my own personal views and comments. Please don't confuse the two. Many times I have asked how I was doing, I've asked for suggestions and assistance. Rarely if ever do I receive a comment one, but let one person have a complaint (in a very imperfect world I might add) and the walls just come crumbling down. Like it or not, the LDP has progressed and I have assisted in this process. No one has once asked how the processing of HOWTOs actually works or even cared enough to do so. Some discussions did take place, and I did try to explain, but I honestly don't think anyone was listening (I feel this a lot). I've asked for feedback from authors/maintainers and even made suggestions that they get more involved. This was over a year ago (probably close to 2) and no one had time or no one cared to respond at any length. I asked if the authors/maintainers would like to assist in approving documents submittals and I got 0% response.....that's right nothing. I've created pages for updates and for current projects to allow others to know what's going on and to hopefully get them involved. Did this accomplish anything? Honestly I don't know b/c no one has ever bothered to comment on them. It seems that the ldp-discuss list (and others) has become nothing short of a means of pulic humiliation and I'm not just talking about myself. This is *not* what the list is for. Public bickering back and forth has no place on this list. Sure, it may help you to get your point across, but if that's all you want, then surely you could find a better means. I've even publicly made available my pager via a paging server. Do you think I did this for kicks? It was done to give anyone who wanted *direct* access to me for whatever reason they had that ability. I'm not asking anyone to use it, but I did state that it was there to be used if you needed it. I understand that a lot of time is spent by authors/maintainers updating docs. But do you think the rest of us have no other life outside the LDP? We all (I assume) are responsible adults and I find it a crying shame that more of us don't act like it when presented with a public forum. It's not my nature to be a downer or have a negative attitude and I feel that I've held my head high for good reason in regards to being the HOWTO Coordinator. I'm not perfect, nor is the job I do, but I do take pride in it and that should account for something. ??? As for the missed/lost docs that have recently been brought to ldp-discuss, again I have apologized...publicly. There have been many new additions and many updates to the HOWTOs (I use this generally I include mini-HOWTOs and FAQs) and to accuse me of deliberately ignoring someone or deliberately setting their update aside or basically just having better things to do with my time is unacceptable, untrue and a complete disrespect to me and what I do. In the past (whether there were complaints or not) I asked if others were happy with what I was doing. I've even asked if anyone would like me to step down and look for someone else to take my place as the HOWTO Cooridnator. It was rather quiet, but the comments that were made appreciated what I was doing and asked that I hang in there. Where are those folks now when push comes to shove?!? When you believe in something strong enough you'll do what you can to survive and keep it going. This is how I felt (feel more often than not) about the HOWTO Coordinator position and the LDP. I must say this.....the way the move (if that's what you want to call it) from Metalab (formerly Sunsite) was handled was inexcusable. This I'm afraid *is* a direct reflection on the LDP. I do not blame Guylhem for how things were handled nor should anyone else. People did nothing but complain about the way things were going and Guylhem asked for feedback and as with me got little response and the majority of the responses were not solutions but rather threads that turned into many lines of nothingness, meaning that nothing was ever being resolved so he took matters into his own hands. Was this not the reason that he was *voted* into position? It's his job to deal with the flack and I think he's done so. People may not have agreed with it, but there was action and in the long run that's what we asked for. As for the Copyright/Licensing debate that's been going on (for how long now?) I'm afraid it has gotten old and extremely tired. I think it's great that we come up with something that we can *all* live with, but the area seems to have been completely blurred between Copyright and Licensing. And to think that we can at this time mandate something of this sort is beyond me. The LDP is *not* in the position to mandate a matter like this, at least not right now. My personal opinion is that an unofficial "offical" manifesto should be written up and put out for public display and scrutiny, and let's move on. What is in place now is sufficient and has been for all these years with minor tweaking along the way. I've always told authors to use what's in place if *they* are comfortable with it....not me. If they choose to tweak it to *their* liking then that is *their* perrogative. Please for the sake of the LDP let this matter be put aside. Perhaps someone outside the LDP would be more suitable for this task? As for the CVS matter, I will say this. *I* (and don't believe that anyone else did) did not turn down Metalab there offer of CVS? As a matter of fact, the one person (me) responsible for getting the updates to Metalab has not even discussed the matter of CVS with anyone at Metalab. Another mis-communication, I would say, but it's problems like these that we're trying to improve on. Yes, I have been working on a CVS solution, does that mean that I would not choose to use Metalab if their services were offered, not only no, but heck no. I would gladly accept! I am working on the finer details of the CVS and how things will be handled. Everyone assumes that all these processes are magically implemented, ok maybe that's not assumed, but it's definately the impression left by many comments. To just throw all the doucment source out there and made available via CVS won't solve anything if measures are not put into place to protect the docs and their processing/updating? If it's only a CVS that's needed/wanted then sure, gimme an hour or two. This is not our goal! Long term solutions is the bottom-line. I have been preparing a revised QC manifesto that will be published by the end of the week. I hope this will solve and/or answer many questions. My main objective here is to give all authors/maintainers a means of tracking progress. This along with the quality of work *will* be our main objectives. And some sort of bug tracking will also be implemented. I have talked to Guylhem (not at length) about making my final comments to ldp-discuss on all the uproar the past few days, so here I am. Unfortunately he misunderstood and thought I was wanting to step down. This was not my intent, but the thought has consumed me over the past 24+ hours and perhaps his misunderstanding is something I should actually consider at this point. If the LDP is suffering because of me then the matter should be addressed and handled appropriately (respectively goes w/out saying). I will entertain the idea of stepping down if it is in fact in the best interest of the LDP. Linux has given me far too much to let my pride get in the way of progress. As for disgruntled authors removing their documents from the LDP, just doesn't sit well with me. Sure, if that's what they want....then let them move on. I honestly can't believe this is the route they would choose to take, but if it is......well perhaps they should. I do know this, if every disgruntled Linux coder had the same views, we would *not* be having this dicussion b/c there would be no Linux. To up and go taking your docs with you is just plain childish. That is *not* directed at Vladimir, but more to any author who feels this way. If I have personal comments for any author, I'll do the repectful thing and personally make them.....not publicly. Perhaps this is my undoing, but I honestly felt that something had to be said. I have too much respect for everyone involved to just let it pass and allow the discomfort that is present now to continue. I owe it to you as well as myself to rectify any and all problems/complaints that are directly related to me. Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/HOWTO tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id QAA22029 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:34:19 +1000 Received: (qmail 6765 invoked by uid 38); 29 Sep 1999 06:34:12 -0000 Resent-Date: 29 Sep 1999 06:34:12 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: poet@linuxports.com Message-ID: <37F1AF47.3AEEB57E@linuxports.com> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 23:18:47 -0700 From: Joshua Drake {aka Poet} Organization: LinuxPorts and the LDP X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Enough is Enough Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/657 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Hello, We understand that everyone is frustrated with the LDP. We understand that people are unhappy with the way things are going. This is why all but one of the maintainers of the LDP are new. Now... that said, lets not continue this, let us start on a productive route of recovery for the LDP. CVS is in the works... Due soon, not soon enough? Too bad, Tim and I have spoke at length about what he is doing with this and in the end you will be very pleased at the capabilities this will offer you. FTP has been approved... If you want a FTP username and password email me (Subject: LDP Passwd) and I will get you set up with in 48 hours. This will work very simply. If you FTP it up, it will be checked for SGML errors, if it is clean, it forwards to ldp-submit for processing. Project Status Page: End of the Week Authors Page: Mid October Links Page Arrangement: Mid October Links Page Auto Add: Mid October Yahoo Style Links page: Beg November Web Based Document Submittal: Beg November New Author FAQ: Not Yet Approved New Manifesto: Not a Clue New "Sample" Copyright / License: Write your own QC: Looking for date on this one Overall Consensus: Never going to happen I also have complete access to the Howto processing machine and will be assisting Tim in getting things rolling out the door more often. I am not going to commit to time frames until I speak further with Tim, but I believe that we will work on a by weekly schedule. Every other Saturday or Sunday the documents will be processed. We may even pull off weekly, where I do it one week he does it the next. Now you want to flame about this email fine, flame me and me alone. Don't take it to the list. You want to offer legitimate feedback, negative or positive, be my guest. In fact please do, I have stated this before, I believe that feedback when constructive is great. Poet/Joshua -- LinuxPorts - http://www.linuxports.com LDP - http://www.linuxdoc.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id SAA22724 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 18:36:25 +1000 Received: (qmail 24711 invoked by uid 38); 29 Sep 1999 08:36:03 -0000 Resent-Date: 29 Sep 1999 08:36:03 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: mok@imsb.au.dk Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:34:14 +0200 (CEST) From: Morten Kjeldgaard To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: CVS@metalab: (was Reasons for wanting to remove my documents) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/660 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org On Tue, 28 Sep 1999, Paul Jones wrote: > Since I'm not up to speed on the QC portion of the LDP planning, I can't > really say whether it's better to use CVS on our site or on another one. >From the authors' point of view, it doesn't matter where the site is, just as long as the document gets QC'ed and made available from the LDP automatically and on a daily basis. /Morten --- Morten Kjeldgaard | Phone : +45 89 42 50 26 Institute of Molecular and Structural Biology | Fax : +45 86 12 31 78 Aarhus University | Home : +45 86 18 81 80 Gustav Wieds Vej 10 C, DK-8000 Aarhus C, Denmark | icq : 27224900 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 22:46:08 +1000 (EST) From: terry@albert Subject: Re: Final Farewell?? To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org In-Reply-To: <37F1FDDA.11FE06F7@wilnetonline.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII On 29 Sep, Ramana Tadepalli wrote: > I am however sure about the fact that this is not the > place for legal matters. > I quote Tim " Public bickering back and forth has > no place on this list ", and yes he is absolutely right about that statement. This list is about discussions relating to the LDP. Those discussions can not be confined to technical ones because most LDP issues are not technical(computing) ones. If those discussions can not take place here where can they take place? In closed discussion where the ideas and views are invisible? We're invited to contribute feedback, and then accused of bickering when it's offered. It seems to me that if nobody speaks up, the parts of the LDP that I value most highly are at risk of being eroded away and lost as collatoral damage. For me that will mean the LDP loses the only aspects of it that interest me. I doubt I'm alone in that. Terry -- terry@albert.animats.net, terry@linux.org.au From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id WAA23705 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 22:00:31 +1000 Received: (qmail 14338 invoked by uid 38); 29 Sep 1999 12:00:10 -0000 Resent-Date: 29 Sep 1999 12:00:10 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: tssarma@wilnetonline.net Message-ID: <37F1FDDA.11FE06F7@wilnetonline.net> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 17:24:03 +0530 From: Ramana Tadepalli Reply-To: tssarma@wilnetonline.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org, tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net, poet@linuxports.com Subject: Re: Final Farewell?? References: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------A7682A179F66E8A6811E5CB4" Resent-Message-ID: <0jr35B.A.dfD.I9f83@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/661 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org --------------A7682A179F66E8A6811E5CB4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit well folks I am a new recipient of this list. I am into it for purely technical know-how. Terry says " Just who on this list do you think isn't speaking their mind truthfully? " Well let me speak my mind. I don't know much about the discussion that is in progress regarding the various legalities of the docs. I am however sure about the fact that this is not the place for legal matters. I quote Tim " Public bickering back and forth has no place on this list ", and yes he is absolutely right about that statement. Please let us get back to productive (about computers) work on this list. ramana PS : I am sure all you folks got Tim's mail . I am keeping the Re: subject line for reference. --------------A7682A179F66E8A6811E5CB4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit well folks I am a new recipient of this list. I am into it for purely technical know-how.
Terry<terry@albert.animats.net> says " Just who
on this list do you think isn't speaking their mind truthfully? "
Well let me speak my mind.
I don't know much about the discussion that is in progress regarding the various legalities of the docs. I am however sure about the fact that this is not the place for legal matters.
I quote Tim " Public bickering back and forth has
no place on this list ", and yes he is absolutely right about that statement.

Please let us get back to productive (about computers) work on this list.

ramana

PS : I am sure all you folks got Tim's mail .
I am keeping the Re: subject line for reference.
  --------------A7682A179F66E8A6811E5CB4-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id WAA23993 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 22:53:12 +1000 Received: (qmail 9367 invoked by uid 38); 29 Sep 1999 12:52:47 -0000 Resent-Date: 29 Sep 1999 12:52:47 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: rfenwick@plymouth.ac.uk From: "Rob Fenwick" Organization: University of Plymouth To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:50:19 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Final Farewell?? Reply-to: robf@asduk.com Priority: normal In-reply-to: <199909291246.WAA23942@albert.animats.net> References: <37F1FDDA.11FE06F7@wilnetonline.net> Message-Id: Resent-Message-ID: <8G5BAD.A.FSC.aug83@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/663 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > We're invited to contribute feedback, and then accused of bickering when > it's offered. At the end of the day, it's the core team that run the LDP - not the users. I find quite often that when I "Invite Feedback" to something, people instantly take that as a sign that they're in control, and what they suggest MUST be implemented, NOW! My suggestion regarding this whole business is just to wait a few weeks to see how the technical developments, and the new core team settle in. Rob Fenwick ------------------ Online Editor, Linux Answers Magazine http://www.futurenet.co.uk -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id WAA24004 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 22:54:34 +1000 Received: (qmail 10764 invoked by uid 38); 29 Sep 1999 12:53:54 -0000 Resent-Date: 29 Sep 1999 12:53:54 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: JKoch@mcp.com X-Internal-ID: 37EF9523000220B9 Message-ID: <5753A9B81DE9D211AAC6006008176ED9711823@CARMMS102> From: JKoch@mcp.com To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: RE: QC volunteers? (Was: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revisi on of site (fwd)) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 07:53:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/664 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > -----Original Message----- > From: bf347@lafn.org [mailto:bf347@lafn.org] > Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 1999 7:31 PM > To: guylhem@oeil.qc.ca > Subject: Re: QC volunteers? (Was: Re: General Positive Feedback re: > revision of site (fwd)) > > > > > We don't have to remove them unless we want to. This is because the > license permits free distribution and it can't be revoked > except by legal > means such as a court order or by a termination clause in the > license. > (There's no termination clause in these, I've checked). The > license is a > contract which in this case is between the author and the LDP > (or between > the author and Tim Bynum if you want to argue that the LDP is > not a legal > entity). Now anyone who has a copy may make copies and give > them away. > That's what we're (or Tim) is doing by putting it at Metalab. > > However, the author is not required to maintain it (unless he > agreed to > do so in the license which he didn't). Can someone else > maintain it? > They could if the license said anyone could modify it. The > license in > these docs is exactly the same license that Tim Bynum uses for his > HOWTO-INDEX (which he wrote). The paragraph on "derivative > works" says > that derivative works must use the same license (Tim called it a > "copyright notice"). This seems to imply that permission to > make derived > works has been granted even though it doesn't state this explicitly. >From the LDP Manifesto page: "Any translation or derived work must be approved by the author in writing before distribution." In this case, distribution could mean electronic distribution - which means the LDP wouldn't have the right to post a derived work without the author's permission. Of course, since the LDP doesn't have a consistent license, there's no telling which pieces of the LDP could, or couldn't, be updated - unless you want to examine each piece separately. Some of the more vocal people on this list have the position that a consistent license would make it more difficult to work with the LDP. The fact this topic of conversation is even brought up makes me think differently. After all, if the overall goal of the LDP is to provide high-quality, free information, then the ability to update and maintain content easily, and without fear of legal action, is of utmost importance. The LDP needs to put rules in place to ensure this happens. If authors don't want to play by whatever rules the LDP comes up with, then they should post their material elsewhere. Jeff Koch -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id AAA24424 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 00:24:39 +1000 Received: (qmail 15417 invoked by uid 38); 29 Sep 1999 14:24:30 -0000 Resent-Date: 29 Sep 1999 14:24:30 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: yan@mail.storm.ca Message-Id: <199909291424.KAA13592@mail.storm.ca> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Yves Bellefeuille" To: LDP discuss Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:23:20 -0400 Subject: Re: Final Farewell?? Reply-to: yan@storm.ca Priority: normal References: <199909290124.VAA02922@chef.meridian.redhat.com> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <8s1H1B.A.uwD.eEi83@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/666 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Tim wrote: > I have talked to Guylhem (not at length) about making my final > comments to ldp-discuss on all the uproar the past few days, so here I > am. Unfortunately he misunderstood and thought I was wanting to step > down. This was not my intent, but the thought has consumed me over > the past 24+ hours and perhaps his misunderstanding is something I > should actually consider at this point. There's no doubt that the How-Tos haven't been maintained in an acceptable manner during the last several months. Perhaps the problem is now solved; I'm not sure yet. I acknowledge that we're all volunteers. I think that a delay of several days in posting How-Tos is quite acceptable; even a week or two can be acceptable. If the delays remain longer than that, then I think it would be appropriate to find a new How-To coordinator. -- Yves Bellefeuille , Ottawa, Canada Francais / English / Esperanto Maintainer, Esperanto FAQ: http://www.esperanto.net/veb/faq.html PGP key at the servers and at http://www.storm.ca/~yan/pgp.asc -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id AAA24448 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 00:29:15 +1000 Received: (qmail 19556 invoked by uid 38); 29 Sep 1999 14:29:08 -0000 Resent-Date: 29 Sep 1999 14:29:08 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: pjones@metalab.unc.edu X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: pjones owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:29:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul Jones X-Sender: pjones@titan.oit.unc.edu To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Matt Welsh on NPR (yesterday, but you can hear him via Real) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <-74NsB.A.bxE.0Ii83@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/667 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Note that www.linuxdoc.org has a link on the show site! http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=99/09/29/0816201 for the /. notice http://www.wamu.org/pihi.html for the Public Interest show links with RealAudio link for Tuesday September 28 for Matt Welsh, author of "Running Linux" and Alan McConnell, mathematician, scientist, statistician, and computer consultant ========================================================================== Paul Jones "We must protect our precious bodily fluids!" General Jack D Ripper http://MetaLab.unc.edu/pjones/ at the Site Formerly Known As SunSITE.unc.edu pjones@MetaLab.unc.edu voice: (919) 962-7600 fax: (919) 962-8071 =========================================================================== --- You are currently subscribed to sungroup as: [pjones@metalab.unc.edu] To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-sungroup-137Q@franklin.oit.unc.edu -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:40 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0013 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id BAA24614 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 01:06:47 +1000 Received: (qmail 13329 invoked by uid 38); 29 Sep 1999 15:03:39 -0000 Resent-Date: 29 Sep 1999 15:03:39 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:52:25 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim To: LDP discuss Subject: Re: Final Farewell?? In-Reply-To: <199909291424.KAA13592@mail.storm.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/668 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Hello, > There's no doubt that the How-Tos haven't been maintained in an > acceptable manner during the last several months. Perhaps the problem is > now solved; I'm not sure yet. I would disagree. *I* would say that the past couple of months have seen more than a minor improvement in the updating of docs. There have probably been more (meaning rapid) updates and new Documents in the past couple of months than there have been in quite some time. With the excption of this past weekend (due to network problems) and the lack of an update on Sunday it's been very close to at least an upload every Wednesday and Sunday. > I acknowledge that we're all volunteers. I think that a delay of > several days in posting How-Tos is quite acceptable; even a week or two > can be acceptable. If the delays remain longer than that, then I think > it would be appropriate to find a new How-To coordinator. And the last comment is what I've asked for....honesty. Even I would agree that 2 weeks is pressing the envelope. Updates twice a week is what my goal is and has been. Joshua has been given access to my box and we've worked it out so that if need be he *could* process docs in the event of my absence. This was done quite some time ago. As for the pervious post regarding where bickering should or should not take place...well *I* still feel this is *not* the forum for it. I don't like to be on other lists when I see this sort of behavior take place and generally remove myself from the list. I've not asked anyone to mute their comments nor will I. There is a time and place for everything, but it's all in how you handle it, no? There is a distinction between warranted complaints, contructive criticism and endless bickering and bantering. This was my only point. Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/HOWTO tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id CAA24924 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 02:11:05 +1000 Received: (qmail 4344 invoked by uid 38); 29 Sep 1999 16:10:13 -0000 Resent-Date: 29 Sep 1999 16:10:12 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: kclark@cmpu.net From: Kendall Clark MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14322.14791.515332.343446@cmpu.net> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:09:43 -0500 (CDT) To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Final Farewell?? In-Reply-To: References: <37F1FDDA.11FE06F7@wilnetonline.net> X-Mailer: VM 6.72 under 21.0 "20 minutes to Nikko" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: kclark@ntlug.org Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/671 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org >>>>> "Rob" == Rob Fenwick writes: >> We're invited to contribute feedback, and then accused of >> bickering when it's offered. Rob> At the end of the day, it's the core team that run the LDP - Rob> not the users. Rob> I find quite often that when I "Invite Feedback" to Rob> something, people instantly take that as a sign that they're Rob> in control, and what they suggest MUST be implemented, NOW! Ok, fine. But in the LDP we have at least 3 groups: users, core team, and the authors/content providers. Do authors not have any say in what policies and procedures the "core team" implements? Let's not turn this into a stereotypical cathedral, please. Best, Kendall Clark -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id CAA25083 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 02:45:27 +1000 Received: (qmail 4228 invoked by uid 38); 29 Sep 1999 16:45:20 -0000 Resent-Date: 29 Sep 1999 16:45:20 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: rfenwick@plymouth.ac.uk From: "Rob Fenwick" Organization: University of Plymouth To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org, kclark@ntlug.org Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 17:43:01 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Final Farewell?? Reply-to: robf@asduk.com Priority: normal In-reply-to: <14322.14791.515332.343446@cmpu.net> References: Message-Id: Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/672 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > Do authors not have any say in what > policies and procedures the "core team" implements? Personally, and this is just my own opinion, I would say absolutely not. Give the authors an LDP alias & a shell account as their 'reward', and then run the LDP without 800 people trying to tell you what to do would be my advice to the core team. Have the occasional referendum on big stuff, but otherwise, lead it from the top, not the users. Rob Fenwick ------------------ Online Editor, Linux Answers Magazine http://www.futurenet.co.uk -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id DAA25360 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 03:43:40 +1000 Received: (qmail 24254 invoked by uid 38); 29 Sep 1999 17:43:32 -0000 Resent-Date: 29 Sep 1999 17:43:32 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: Hugo.van.der.Kooij@caiw.nl From: Hugo.van.der.Kooij@caiw.nl Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:43:09 +0200 (CEST) X-Sender: hvdkooij@bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Final Farewell?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-URL: http://www.caiw.nl/~hvdkooij/ X-Loop: Hugo.van.der.Kooij@caiw.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <5jBMaC.A.16F.E_k83@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/676 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org On Wed, 29 Sep 1999, Rob Fenwick wrote: > > It is but denying authors the right to have their say in how this project > > is operated would be not a wise thing. > > Why? > > I contribute to the charity 'World Aid', but I don't expect to have a > say in how they run their organisation. Why should the contributors > to LDP? :o) Don't start to compare things that are irrelevant here. Without authors there is no LDP. So ignoring them is the fastest way to have all people withdrawing their content. While I know it is impossible to ask anyone's opinion on each subject. But ignoring the authors in major issue's as licensing and document handling procedures is unacceptable. If the core team thinks they can do without the authors there I suggest they write all the documents as well. Hugo. -- Hugo van der Kooij; Oranje Nassaustraat 16; 3155 VJ Maasland hvdkooij@caiw.nl http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~hvdkooij/ -------------------------------------------------------------- Use of any of my email addresses for unsollicited (commercial) email is a clear intrusion of my privacy and illegal! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id EAA25537 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 04:19:09 +1000 Received: (qmail 13333 invoked by uid 38); 29 Sep 1999 18:18:59 -0000 Resent-Date: 29 Sep 1999 18:18:59 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: Hugo.van.der.Kooij@caiw.nl From: Hugo.van.der.Kooij@caiw.nl Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 20:18:43 +0200 (CEST) X-Sender: hvdkooij@bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Final Farewell?? In-Reply-To: <37F25470.735EB241@cgipc.com> Message-ID: X-URL: http://www.caiw.nl/~hvdkooij/ X-Loop: Hugo.van.der.Kooij@caiw.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/678 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org On Wed, 29 Sep 1999, Mark Komarinski wrote: > Hugo.van.der.Kooij@caiw.nl wrote: > > > > > Figure out the licensing, figure out the distribution methods, figure out > > > if you want to use LinuxDoc or DocBook, get it documented (see my HOWTO HOWTO) > > > and then tell everyone else what the decisions are. If someone doesn't agree > > > with it, then it's their fault for not volunteering for the core team. > > > > Any idea how someone would get into the 'core team'? A lot of things are > > not as simple as you present them here. > > I don't know. How do you get to be on the Linux core team? Or Apache? > Or XFree86? It's the same idea, really. > > > > Just let us write documentation. That *is* what we're here for, right? > > > > It is but denying authors the right to have their say in how this project > > is operated would be not a wise thing. > > As I said, it's their own fault for not helping. I don't write documents > for the LDP to make money or get my name in lights. I do it to present > information easily to someone else. If you want to make money, > go write for a magazine or write a book (yes, I do both). It's not `their fault`. What good is a `core team` if it is just as big as the number of authors + anyone else who thinks they have to have their say? > > And to be honest. Getting in touch with someone (like Tim) over documents > > has been a real pain and I eventually gave up on trying to startup a > > document. For now I'll just keep to Dutch documents as there is enough > > work to do for Dutch authors. > > That's why some automated system has to be set up instead of everyone > squabbling about how person X doesn't respond to their e-mail. Some things still need to be dealt with by email as things are not clear on a number of subjects. For example - What's up with docbook SGML? (I for one don't write linuxdoc SGML at all anymore.) - How to handle with a howto that is not updated since spring 1997? (Can someone take over as their is no way of getting in contact with the original author anymore?) Getting no answers for months as would-be author is counter-productive. I think some QC is in order here. I for one gave up before I got started on an English documents of some praktical issue's regarding firewalls. (A number of issue's is missing in the IPCHAINS HOWTO. I do think they are beyond the scope of that HOWTO so I don't blame the author for not covering them.) Hugo. -- Hugo van der Kooij; Oranje Nassaustraat 16; 3155 VJ Maasland hvdkooij@caiw.nl http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~hvdkooij/ -------------------------------------------------------------- Use of any of my email addresses for unsollicited (commercial) email is a clear intrusion of my privacy and illegal! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id GAA26167 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 06:27:45 +1000 Received: (qmail 24765 invoked by uid 38); 29 Sep 1999 20:27:21 -0000 Resent-Date: 29 Sep 1999 20:27:21 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: rfenwick@plymouth.ac.uk From: "Rob Fenwick" Organization: University of Plymouth To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org, Hugo.van.der.Kooij@caiw.nl Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:25:26 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Final Farewell?? Reply-to: robf@asduk.com Priority: normal References: In-reply-to: Message-Id: Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/679 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > Don't start to compare things that are irrelevant here. Oooooh! Well slap my thigh, and call me Sandra. Rob Fenwick ------------------ Online Editor, Linux Answers Magazine http://www.futurenet.co.uk -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0003 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id HAA26713 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 07:48:00 +1000 Received: (qmail 16733 invoked by uid 38); 29 Sep 1999 21:46:31 -0000 Resent-Date: 29 Sep 1999 21:46:31 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: jim@jimpick.com Sender: jim@pepper.jimpick.com To: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Cc: Greg Ferguson Subject: @linuxdoc.org email addresses X-Url: http://www.jimpick.com/ From: Jim Pick Date: 29 Sep 1999 14:46:22 -0700 Message-ID: <87670tpf0x.fsf@pepper.jimpick.com> Lines: 136 User-Agent: Gnus/5.070095 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.95) XEmacs/20.4 (Emerald) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/682 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Hi, I currently have the MX record for linuxdoc.org pointing at my server (because I didn't know where else to point it). But I haven't configured my server to accept email for linuxdoc.org (yet). Anyways, I'm seeing a fair number of emails being directed towards addresses in the @linuxdoc.org mail domain. I could easily set up mail aliases for those (for example, webmaster@linuxdoc.org could go to Greg). And there are quite a few subscription requests where people typed @linuxdoc.org - not @lists.linuxdoc.org. I guess those should probably be bounced. I'll include a list of emails currently stuck in the queue on my server at the end of this post. I'd be willing to handle email aliases for the linuxdoc.org domain. Or - maybe somebody else with a mail server would like to handle them instead? (less work for me) Perhaps we could even hand out aliases or accounts to authors? Of course, there would need to be some policy for doing so. Cheers, - Jim 35d 732 11JlYc-0003EI-00 *** frozen *** ldp-discuss@linuxdoc.org 34d 875 11JyOv-0005fZ-00 *** frozen *** ldp-discuss@linuxdoc.org 27d 1.0K 11Mo1x-0002lP-00 *** frozen *** webmaster@linuxdoc.org 17d 629 11Q8zU-00068Z-00 *** frozen *** ldp-discuss@linuxdoc.org 17d 838 11QHgk-0006H3-00 *** frozen *** ldp-discuss-request@linuxdoc.org 17d 858 11QIkb-00079v-00 *** frozen *** ldp-discuss-request@linuxdoc.org 17d 672 11QNqI-0003V0-00 *** frozen *** ldp-discuss-request@linuxdoc.org 17d 729 11QQI2-0005VU-00 *** frozen *** ldp-discuss-request@linuxdoc.org 16d 1.5K 11Qb3X-00004t-00 *** frozen *** ldp-discuss-request@linuxdoc.org 16d 696 11QeYB-0003Tr-00 *** frozen *** ldp-discuss-request@linuxdoc.org 16d 814 11QgE2-0004y5-00 *** frozen *** ldp-discuss-request@linuxdoc.org 16d 680 11Qhq9-00070m-00 *** frozen *** ldp-discuss-request@linuxdoc.org 15d 657 11Qw6f-0002VS-00 *** frozen *** ldp-discuss-request@linuxdoc.org 15d 855 11Qw7D-0002Vg-00 *** frozen *** ldp-discuss-request@linuxdoc.org 15d 721 11R3sw-0000mu-00 *** frozen *** ldp-discuss-request@linuxdoc.org 15d 1.5K 11R7ED-0003OC-00 *** frozen *** ldp-discuss-request@linuxdoc.org 15d 705 11R8RL-00048K-00 *** frozen *** ldp-discuss-request@linuxdoc.org 14d 947 11RM2G-0007HN-00 *** frozen *** lp-discuss-request@linuxdoc.org 13d 2.2K 11RdSb-0004Vj-00 *** frozen *** gferg@linuxdoc.org 13d 1000 11RjRM-0005FI-00 *** frozen *** ldp-discuss-request@linuxdoc.org 12d 9.6K 11S7ml-0002g4-00 *** frozen *** ldp-discuss-request@linuxdoc.org 12d 806 11SClX-0006dn-00 *** frozen *** ldp-discuss-request@linuxdoc.org 11d 3.2K 11SKmt-0003I5-00 *** frozen *** ldp-discuss@linuxdoc.org 11d 746 11SKtE-0003NK-00 *** frozen *** ldp-discuss-request@linuxdoc.org 10d 1.2K 11Sz6i-0007be-00 <4tajlm@ipoline.com> *** frozen *** ldp-discuss-request@linuxdoc.org 9d 1.6K 11T0qF-00008z-00 *** frozen *** ldp-discuss-request@linuxdoc.org 8d 677 11TPiZ-0001E0-00 *** frozen *** ldp-discuss-request@linuxdoc.org 8d 946 11TWih-0004YN-00 *** frozen *** ldp-discuss-request@linuxdoc.org 6d 912 11U6NE-0004Dg-00 *** frozen *** request@linuxdoc.org 5d 1.7K 11UZ71-0001Nj-00 *** frozen *** lpd-discuss@linuxdoc.org 5d 2.7K 11UjhE-0005aZ-00 *** frozen *** ldp-discuss-request@linuxdoc.org 3d 1.5K 11VEJB-00039h-00 *** frozen *** ldp-discuss-request@linuxdoc.org 54h 1.1K 11VdAn-0000ZG-00 *** frozen *** ldp-discuss-request@linuxdoc.org 34h 1.7K 11Vv8A-0001H7-00 *** frozen *** webmaster@linuxdoc.org 77m 530K 11WQAp-0001Jg-00 *** frozen *** ldp-discuss-request@linuxdoc.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0003 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id PAA29063 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 15:44:18 +1000 Received: (qmail 2955 invoked by uid 38); 30 Sep 1999 05:44:07 -0000 Resent-Date: 30 Sep 1999 05:44:07 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: poet@linuxports.com Message-ID: <37F2F4FD.DEC01D08@linuxports.com> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 22:28:29 -0700 From: Joshua Drake {aka Poet} Organization: LinuxPorts and the LDP X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Web Page Updates Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/684 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Sponsors page up - Metalab listed first XML/CSS removed --- 3.x browsers and KDE complained (not the org, just the software) Auto Add Link added -- to help keep us current on links. Received Confirmation that Greg is working on links page layout. Received Confirmation that CVS is still moving smoothly and that it will be up soon. Poet/Joshua Drake -- LinuxPorts - http://www.linuxports.com LDP - http://www.linuxdoc.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id RAA29676 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 17:58:51 +1000 Received: (qmail 17819 invoked by uid 38); 30 Sep 1999 07:57:41 -0000 Resent-Date: 30 Sep 1999 07:57:41 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: bf347@lafn.org Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 00:57:23 -0700 Message-Id: <199909300757.AA16545@lafn.org> From: bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer) To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: LDP License missing Cc: gregh@cc.gatech.edu Reply-To: bf347@lafn.org Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/686 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org There are about 17 HOWTOs that use the LDP License. They do not include it in their HOWTOs but incorporate it by reference: http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/COPYRIGHT.html In some cases people have used "sunsite" for "metalab" and also used "LDP-COPYRIGHT" for "COPYRIGHT. Now the LDP License is not at these urls. It has been removed and another license substituted for it which is named "LINUX DOCUMENTATION PROJECT COPYING LICENSE". I have a copy of the LDP Licesse and it is much different than the "... copying license". All the references in the HOWTOs state "LDP license" and not "copying license". Thus a major mistake has been made and the correct license needs to be restored to the urls which are referenced by these HOWTOs. David Lawyer PS: The LDP license should perhaps also be at the url .../LICENSE.html since this is stated in the latest version (2.0) which apparently no one used as no HOWTOs reference this URL. I only have a copy of version 2.0 but I think that an earlier version is the one that should be restored. Greg Hankins should have a copy of the version that mentioned .../COPYRIGHT.html. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id VAA30953 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:47:03 +1000 Received: (qmail 10320 invoked by uid 38); 30 Sep 1999 11:46:53 -0000 Resent-Date: 30 Sep 1999 11:46:52 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: guylhem@terram.oeil.qc.ca Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:15:59 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd) Message-ID: <19990929111559.A1000@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: <19990928112603.C1019@victis.oeil.qc.ca> <199909290116.LAA20394@albert.animats.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=dDRMvlgZJXvWKvBx; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <199909290116.LAA20394@albert.animats.net>; from terry@albert.animats.net on Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 11:16:54AM +1000 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/691 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org --dDRMvlgZJXvWKvBx Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 11:16:54AM +1000, terry@albert.animats.net wrote: > Have the LDP accept them before then on the basis that one day they > will be free? I think that's a sellout of principle. If we're given a clear date, it could be interesting. > You're suggesting that the existing individual licenses don't state > their terms clearly enough? you propose to fix that, not by ammending > them, but by adding another organisationally imposed, inconsistent, > layer of licensing terms? Maybe you'd prever this to be in the manifesto? > > Documentation is not software. >=20 > Oh please. "In your opinion". "IMHO". --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project: http://www.linuxdoc.org PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem ; Email: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca To submit new HOWTOs to the LDP, mail ldp-submit@lists.linuxdoc.org --dDRMvlgZJXvWKvBx Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN/HYzt+QeWug/qfFAQH6oAP+PMEc5obJb4AJvyJyqvrYYhbzIbljYkGu KuST0oTizCWSWLnbsqsKHDyrj607He7OhIFqlKVGB5+pwcx/9HABNl/wqhqjYTFb rHMvuE9YA5g/VQfRpALOSpzo07EClVPjJYMr840lRhvxjLMlkeZX0TqXEY8DmuYS od/2K3FuISU= =Kq41 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --dDRMvlgZJXvWKvBx-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0013 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id EAA04344 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 04:37:54 +1000 Received: (qmail 2679 invoked by uid 38); 26 Sep 1999 18:36:20 -0000 Resent-Date: 26 Sep 1999 18:36:20 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: guylhem@terram.oeil.qc.ca Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 18:29:50 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: Adam Di Carlo Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Debian Doc Project and LDP -- hail and well-met Message-ID: <19990926182950.E1752@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="osDK9TLjxFScVI/L"; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: ; from Adam Di Carlo on Sun, Sep 26, 1999 at 01:38:49AM -0400 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/579 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Content-Length: 0 Lines: 53 --osDK9TLjxFScVI/L Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Congratulations! On Sun, Sep 26, 1999 at 01:38:49AM -0400, Adam Di Carlo wrote: > - the DDP should not overlap the LDP in any way; any efforts for > general Linux documentation or free software documentation should > go as far upstream as possible, that is, and not excluded to, > sending patches to LDP maintainers and upstream software > maintainers. This outlook is nothing less than what is required > by the Debian Social Contract. If you have more authors, maybe they'd like to maintain some HOWTOs ? > - I personally feel that more efforts should be made to bring > translators into the mainstream. CVS access, and the proper use We are providing links to local LDPs. > of SGML (separating language-independant from language-dependant > material) can help this effort a lot. The SGMLtools we use are unmaintained :-( --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Save East Timor: http://altern.org/spoirier/timor.html http://www.pst-timor= .org --osDK9TLjxFScVI/L Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN+5J/t+QeWug/qfFAQHN3gQAoPj6lnA+ctoJ4ERkrv72f1WRXYzovLKO KXIwka5mdGGIzdxhk+mgtPVn8f7YQeIDK8pqxiUpItnzFA5u/lMaYv3Nfh10MJ+I Yo2yDev3fTHcsjCdoNxpa0vd2t6bXgsSY+CpJaE4Tup3UVC5GOOX+XTxnh0KT7r2 ifs6yPrhD/U= =Vh/n -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --osDK9TLjxFScVI/L-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id EAA04411 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 04:48:57 +1000 Received: (qmail 10608 invoked by uid 38); 26 Sep 1999 18:48:50 -0000 Resent-Date: 26 Sep 1999 18:48:50 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: cpolish@ns.net Message-ID: <37EE6A4D.DD5CE389@ns.net> Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 11:47:41 -0700 From: C Polisher X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adam Di Carlo CC: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Treatment (Was Re: Debian Doc Project and LDP) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <_VkNJC.A.nlC.Rqm73@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/581 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Content-Length: 0 Lines: 63 Adam, You've done a nice job with the metadata docs! Here's a piece that might fit somewhere. When informational items are classified by _treatment_, searchers can quickly locate desired information. Treatment would be an element explaining the type of coverage that the material provides, picked from a list. Such as: Manpage, Howto, Guide, Newsgroup, RFC, FAQ, Tip, Intro, Survey, Package, RPM, Periodical, Thesis, Catalog, Mailinglist, Book, Techreport, Algorithm, Article, Tutorial, Patent, Videotape, Handbook, Glossary, Event... This is especially helpful when there's a great deal of information to sort through. Example: Jenny User searches for info on TCP/IP. The LDP search yields 210 hits. Treatment could narrow down the field of info: If they want to know what the initials stand for, there's the [Glossary] treatment. Example: Jargon File, http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/TCPIP.html. If they want to solve a congestion issue with TCP/IP, then a [Package] treatment might be helpful. E.g., "A TCP Vegas Implementation for Linux" http://www.cs.washington.edu/homes/cardwell/linux-vegas/ They might be having a technical problem and want to discuss it with others. Possibly a [Newsgroup] treatment is what they're looking for, such as: news:comp.protocols.tcp-ip or news:comp.os.linux.networking An [FAQ] treatment might be the best information source: http://www.itprc.com/tcpipfaq/default.htm Thesis work posted to the WWW or available on FTP is sometimes useful; perhaps Ansari's [Thesis] on Adapting TCP/IP to ATM, http://hegel.ittc.ukans.edu/projects/tcpip_atm/thesis.ps The Networking overview [Howto] might contain everything they need to know: http://www.linuxdoc.org/HOWTO/Networking-Overview-HOWTO.html and so on ... The "core" information of the LDP (or the DDP) could be surveyed and classified for "treatment" without expending too much effort. For instance, the HOWTO's might all be processed (tagged?) from a script. Incorporating (classifying, indexing) material outside the scope of the LDP is a _big_ undertaking. ;^) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id FAA04584 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 05:23:58 +1000 Received: (qmail 1699 invoked by uid 38); 26 Sep 1999 19:22:39 -0000 Resent-Date: 26 Sep 1999 19:22:39 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: guylhem@terram.oeil.qc.ca Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 18:30:50 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: Adam Di Carlo Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: updating web pages from CVS documentation areas -- ideas? Message-ID: <19990926183050.F1752@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=X3gaHHMYHkYqP6yf; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: ; from Adam Di Carlo on Sun, Sep 26, 1999 at 01:40:38AM -0400 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/582 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Content-Length: 0 Lines: 39 --X3gaHHMYHkYqP6yf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Sep 26, 1999 at 01:40:38AM -0400, Adam Di Carlo wrote: > How are you guys in the LDP going to handle this? I'll be working on that. I think CVS or FTP submission should result in a message sent to ldp-submit where human rereaders can check and process the HOWTO. --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Save East Timor: http://altern.org/spoirier/timor.html http://www.pst-timor= .org --X3gaHHMYHkYqP6yf Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN+5KOd+QeWug/qfFAQGblgP/SGAbbYgpdWHwKD+Q/AyNUTBhv6md4cjj xgi3J09mGubicMcN5WR9GF91AUdJCX2mqqPSA789rfbf2XfW7EyXC+pEpjzu5KTV 4Dc8sJuAp6UwZ5lKeH2inbN0oyTSOzWE8HCRwCnoe8APUaUk4LqeJbTizuFOwJtz A40gyTk+J0Q= =+qgP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --X3gaHHMYHkYqP6yf-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id GAA04835 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 06:19:18 +1000 Received: (qmail 4299 invoked by uid 38); 26 Sep 1999 20:18:23 -0000 Resent-Date: 26 Sep 1999 20:18:23 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: cpolish@ns.net Message-ID: <37EE7F4A.894CC343@ns.net> Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 13:17:14 -0700 From: C Polisher X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adam Di Carlo CC: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Treatment (Was Re: Debian Doc Project and LDP) References: <37EE6A4D.DD5CE389@ns.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/585 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Content-Length: 0 Lines: 20 Adam Di Carlo wrote: > C Polisher writes: > > When informational items are classified by > > _treatment_, searchers can quickly locate > > desired information. Treatment would be an > > element explaining the type of coverage > > that the material provides, picked from a > > list. > Very interesting idea. I wonder how it would fit in with the DC > entity set. It looks like the Dublin Core "resource type", but seems they focus on the format, vs. the level-of-detail, scope-of-coverage approach that I'm suggesting. I don't see a conflict, though. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id GAA25587 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 06:10:44 +1000 Received: (qmail 21320 invoked by uid 38); 3 Sep 1999 20:10:38 -0000 Resent-Date: 3 Sep 1999 20:10:38 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: guylhem@terram.oeil.qc.ca Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 16:24:33 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: Daniel Barlow Cc: Marco Budde , ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: LDP Proposal by Deb Message-ID: <19990903162433.B889@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: <199908282016.AA17908@lafn.org> <37CC0D33.3E682077@tu-harburg.de> <87671to42o.fsf@tninkpad.telent.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=IiVenqGWf+H9Y6IX; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <87671to42o.fsf@tninkpad.telent.net>; from Daniel Barlow on Thu, Sep 02, 1999 at 02:06:39PM +0100 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/314 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org --IiVenqGWf+H9Y6IX Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Sep 02, 1999 at 02:06:39PM +0100, Daniel Barlow wrote: > (If there were CVS, the author would commit his changes then the > editor "cvs update", make changes, and commit the edited version back. > A standard CVS tag - RELEASE, say - could be used to let the > submission engine know which version is considered "publish-ready") First it will have to pass through QC and Tim who will only accept "publish ready" HOWTOs. However, before any relecture, submitted HOWTO will be available on a beta section, for people who need fresh documents. > I agree with Marco here. i don't see that the Linux kernel is notably > worse because Alan Cox receives money from Red Hat. I also agree, but I don't think editors are especially interested : last year, some french publisher offered me the EXTRAORDINARY AMOUNT of approx. $100 for spending 2 full weeks in a new version of the French HOWTO. I could therefore buy my own work when it was published :-) There's no difference between this and working for free : money is not the motivation, you write HOWTOs because you're interested in sharing your knowledge with other people. Licensing is the critical part. --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Anywhere/Partout: guylhem-pager \@/ oeil.qc.ca --IiVenqGWf+H9Y6IX Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN8/aId+QeWug/qfFAQEOLgQAlukMfBxLYD61H2dWhZ//s45Fq5QjLOUK C3pB/vQOL3uN06x9dzS8EoigGUCD3olXkU6VJBV/0Qm/dzYhdW8jOOYBLh6BQGaB JMhXdV8ATqgvu/1Mobdj4W56vkMmM6kJH/6c+3qqh75mgJ37id4AQAvjO8Visizt hhJDYdOccdE= =ax+w -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --IiVenqGWf+H9Y6IX-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id BAA01907 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 01:40:10 +1000 Received: (qmail 2466 invoked by uid 38); 15 Sep 1999 15:39:54 -0000 Resent-Date: 15 Sep 1999 15:39:54 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: garym@maya.dyndns.org Sender: garym@mail.wccweb.com To: Hugo.van.der.Kooij@caiw.nl Cc: Vern Hoxie , ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: SGML help needed References: From: Gary Lawrence Murphy Date: 15 Sep 1999 11:38:46 -0400 Message-ID: Reply-To: Gary Lawrence Murphy Organization: TeleDynamics --- the Art of Being There X-Url: http://www.teledyn.com/ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/444 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org I spent most of this morning with a customer, a local senior who is grappling with sorting out why Netscape calls "email" "messenger" and wondering why search engines have so many buttons (I sent her to Google) ... >>>>> "H" == Hugo van der Kooij writes: H> You should check out the SGMLtools H> homepage. http://www.sgmltools.org/ H> All answers are there. I told her I may have a quarter century of experience, but I am in the very same boat ;) ... the answers may be there, but you can't say they are obvious. The obtuseness of the documents I've found so far is refreshing (and humbling) --- Zen says something about "seeing the world with new eyes" and this is exactly the state of my bewilderment 8) For example, I eventually figured out how to run PSGML-mode and translated my book outline to verifiable DocBook, but then stumbled trying to create HTML --- the docs say to use a Jade command that doesn't work, and the sgmltools site hides the db2html command script (with no mention of its command parameters). Anyway, I eventually (3am) figured out that "db2html -d mystyle.dsl book.sgml" would create some HTML pages, and cloned the cygnus-both style so I could change the background colour, but the pages are still dead ugly, especially the title page. I've started down the long winding path to learn how to customize the Walsh stylesheets, but what I really want to know is how to accomplish specific layout effects, for example, to format and tags into table columns and rows so I can place the authors beside a graphic image (somewhat like an Amazon or FatBrain page), or how to add headers and footers, or how to wrap the output inside a page layout where I can put a menu down the left, or ... (see http://nwalsh.com/docbook/dsssl/doc/custom.html for info on customizing stylesheets) What I also need is a place to ask dumb questions about DocBook usage and conventions, for example, how to place the author's email and webpage in a (I put them under

but with horrible results). I know DocBook can do all this stuff because in sifting through the online docs, I see some beautiful examples of output --- it's too bad more sites don't place the SGML source to their title page online as an example ;) Looking back, though, I see I have graduated from basic content to basic layout. The dynamic demos in mozilla, however, still seem lightyears away. -- Gary Lawrence Murphy TeleDynamics Communications Inc Business Telecom Services : Internet Consulting : http://www.teledyn.com Linux Writers Workshop Archive: http://www.egroups.com/group/linux-hack/ "You don't play what you know; you play what you hear." -- (Miles Davis) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id EAA25461 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 04:03:32 +1000 Received: (qmail 3110 invoked by uid 38); 29 Sep 1999 18:03:17 -0000 Resent-Date: 29 Sep 1999 18:03:17 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: markk@cgipc.com Sender: markk@mail.cgipc.com Message-ID: <37F25470.735EB241@cgipc.com> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:03:28 -0400 From: Mark Komarinski X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.5-15 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hugo.van.der.Kooij@caiw.nl CC: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Final Farewell?? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/677 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Hugo.van.der.Kooij@caiw.nl wrote: > > > Figure out the licensing, figure out the distribution methods, figure out > > if you want to use LinuxDoc or DocBook, get it documented (see my HOWTO HOWTO) > > and then tell everyone else what the decisions are. If someone doesn't agree > > with it, then it's their fault for not volunteering for the core team. > > Any idea how someone would get into the 'core team'? A lot of things are > not as simple as you present them here. I don't know. How do you get to be on the Linux core team? Or Apache? Or XFree86? It's the same idea, really. > > Just let us write documentation. That *is* what we're here for, right? > > It is but denying authors the right to have their say in how this project > is operated would be not a wise thing. As I said, it's their own fault for not helping. I don't write documents for the LDP to make money or get my name in lights. I do it to present information easily to someone else. If you want to make money, go write for a magazine or write a book (yes, I do both). > And to be honest. Getting in touch with someone (like Tim) over documents > has been a real pain and I eventually gave up on trying to startup a > document. For now I'll just keep to Dutch documents as there is enough > work to do for Dutch authors. That's why some automated system has to be set up instead of everyone squabbling about how person X doesn't respond to their e-mail. -Mark -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Carlo Gavazzi IPC | Mark F. Komarinski, RHCE - Compat. Engineer| 176 Second Ave | markk@cgipc.com - www.cgipc.com | Waltham, MA 02451 USA | Ph: 781-290-4800 x138 Fx: 781-290-4810 | -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id CAA13068 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 02:09:34 +1000 Received: (qmail 29377 invoked by uid 38); 29 Aug 1999 16:09:22 -0000 Resent-Date: 29 Aug 1999 16:09:22 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: deb@thepuffingroup.com Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 11:03:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Deb Richardson X-Sender: deb@erebus To: Mark Komarinski cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: HOWTO HOWTO (was: Re: LDP Proposal by Deb) In-Reply-To: <37CA9D34.7FE627E9@cgipc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"fb0Br.A.rKH.wsVy3"@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/274 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org On Mon, 30 Aug 1999, Mark Komarinski wrote: > I did some pretty major updates on friday of my HOWTO HOWTO. The FreeBSD Documentation Project has a "Documentation Project Primer" that contains an introduction to DocBook that you might find useful: http://www.freebsd.org/tutorials/docproj-primer/ You might want to contact Nik Clayton (nik@freebsd.org) about it. - deb -- == Open Source Writers Group (OSWG) == http://www.thepuffingroup.com/oswg == deb@thepuffingroup.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id GAA25628 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 06:19:11 +1000 Received: (qmail 26476 invoked by uid 38); 3 Sep 1999 20:16:31 -0000 Resent-Date: 3 Sep 1999 20:16:30 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: olea@hispalinux.es Sender: olea@maria.ctv.es Message-ID: <37CE58C7.F7D4FD5C@hispalinux.es> Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 13:00:23 +0200 From: Ismael Olea Organization: Hispalinux X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [es] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.5-15smp i686) X-Accept-Language: es-ES, es, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Komarinski CC: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Bitkeeper References: <000101bef5b0$00c65640$0200a8c0@perch> <37CFCE00.222A961D@cgipc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <1_ZGW.A.YdG.eyC03@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/315 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Mark Komarinski escribió: > > We're not writing a kernel here. This sounds like it's a bit more > high-powered than we want. How many LDP documents have multuple authors? The translation of any guide needs the help of almost 10 or 15 colaborators. > CVS is in most distros and is fairly easily documented. I'd say stick with > that for now. Did you visit the bitkeeper site? ;-) It looks really really cool. But it isn't free. How about PRCS? It's free and more powerful than CVS? -- A.Ismael Olea González olea@iname.com 2:345/108.9@fidonet.org El mundo debe empezar a tener miedo a un planeta DEF -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id IAA10526 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:07:03 +1000 Received: (qmail 12532 invoked by uid 38); 16 Sep 1999 22:06:56 -0000 Resent-Date: 16 Sep 1999 22:06:56 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: gferg@hoop.timonium.sgi.com From: "Greg Ferguson" Message-Id: <9909161813.ZM25636@hoop.timonium.sgi.com> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:13:33 -0400 In-Reply-To: Mark Komarinski "Re: linuxdoc.org: copyright and Manifesto" (Sep 16, 5:32pm) References: <19990916172117.B6135@albert.animats.net> <9909161707.ZM25566@hoop.timonium.sgi.com> <37E161F1.9CC59D14@cgipc.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: Mark Komarinski , ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: linuxdoc.org: copyright and Manifesto Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/462 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org On Sep 16, 5:32pm, Mark Komarinski wrote: > Subject: Re: linuxdoc.org: copyright and Manifesto > Should authors who wish to use this copyright just reference the > URL, or should they include it as part of the document? Mark - A sample for authors is provided (which mimics what copyright.html shows) at http://www.linuxdoc.org/LDP-Manifesto.html#sampcr Ferg -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id LAA11435 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:07:34 +1000 Received: (qmail 17139 invoked by uid 38); 17 Sep 1999 01:07:05 -0000 Resent-Date: 17 Sep 1999 01:07:05 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: poet@linuxports.com Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:10:32 -0700 (PDT) From: "Mr. Poet" X-Sender: jd@crazypenguins.commandprompt.com To: Mark Komarinski cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org, ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org, recipient list not shown: ; Subject: Re: linuxdoc.org: copyright and Manifesto In-Reply-To: <37E161F1.9CC59D14@cgipc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/464 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org I would suggest including the entire document as this copyright may change from time to time and you may or may not agree with certain changes. Poet LinuxPorts - http://www.linuxports.com LDP - http://www.linuxdoc.org On Thu, 16 Sep 1999, Mark Komarinski wrote: > Should authors who wish to use this copyright just reference the > URL, or should they include it as part of the document? > > -Mark > > Greg Ferguson wrote: > > > > Based on some of Terry's observations, I have updated the > > copyright document. I have removed the "Publishing LDP > > Manuals" area from it, and instead link to the area found > > within the Manifesto. There are also a couple of other > > links to the Manifesto that are specifically called out. > > > > The copyright is found at - http://www.linuxdoc.org/copyright.html > > and the Manifesto (also modified slightly) can be seen at - > > http://www.linuxdoc.org/LDP-Manifesto.html > > > > Terry (or anyone else that may have comments on these documents), > > if this doesn't capture what you're looking for, please email me. > > > > Ferg > > > > -- > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id DAA25205 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 03:11:31 +1000 Received: (qmail 28859 invoked by uid 38); 29 Sep 1999 17:10:30 -0000 Resent-Date: 29 Sep 1999 17:10:30 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: Hugo.van.der.Kooij@caiw.nl From: Hugo.van.der.Kooij@caiw.nl Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:10:02 +0200 (CEST) X-Sender: hvdkooij@bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org To: Mark Komarinski cc: robf@asduk.com, ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Final Farewell?? In-Reply-To: <37F2456B.91D56D0A@cgipc.com> Message-ID: X-URL: http://www.caiw.nl/~hvdkooij/ X-Loop: Hugo.van.der.Kooij@caiw.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/674 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org On Wed, 29 Sep 1999, Mark Komarinski wrote: > Rob Fenwick wrote: > > > > > Do authors not have any say in what > > > policies and procedures the "core team" implements? > > > > Personally, and this is just my own opinion, I would say absolutely > > not. > > > > Give the authors an LDP alias & a shell account as their 'reward', > > and then run the LDP without 800 people trying to tell you what to do > > would be my advice to the core team. > > > > Have the occasional referendum on big stuff, but otherwise, lead it > > from the top, not the users. > > I have to agree with this, and is something I proposed 6-9 months ago. I happen to disagree to some extend at least (if not in whole ;-). > Figure out the licensing, figure out the distribution methods, figure out > if you want to use LinuxDoc or DocBook, get it documented (see my HOWTO HOWTO) > and then tell everyone else what the decisions are. If someone doesn't agree > with it, then it's their fault for not volunteering for the core team. Any idea how someone would get into the 'core team'? A lot of things are not as simple as you present them here. > Just let us write documentation. That *is* what we're here for, right? It is but denying authors the right to have their say in how this project is operated would be not a wise thing. And to be honest. Getting in touch with someone (like Tim) over documents has been a real pain and I eventually gave up on trying to startup a document. For now I'll just keep to Dutch documents as there is enough work to do for Dutch authors. Hugo. -- Hugo van der Kooij; Oranje Nassaustraat 16; 3155 VJ Maasland hvdkooij@caiw.nl http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~hvdkooij/ -------------------------------------------------------------- Use of any of my email addresses for unsollicited (commercial) email is a clear intrusion of my privacy and illegal! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id DAA25271 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 03:24:12 +1000 Received: (qmail 28495 invoked by uid 38); 29 Sep 1999 17:24:03 -0000 Resent-Date: 29 Sep 1999 17:24:03 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: rfenwick@plymouth.ac.uk From: "Rob Fenwick" Organization: University of Plymouth To: Mark Komarinski , Hugo.van.der.Kooij@caiw.nl Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 18:14:57 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Final Farewell?? Reply-to: robf@asduk.com CC: robf@asduk.com, ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Priority: normal References: <37F2456B.91D56D0A@cgipc.com> In-reply-to: Message-Id: Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/675 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > It is but denying authors the right to have their say in how this project > is operated would be not a wise thing. Why? I contribute to the charity 'World Aid', but I don't expect to have a say in how they run their organisation. Why should the contributors to LDP? :o) Rob Fenwick ------------------ Online Editor, Linux Answers Magazine http://www.futurenet.co.uk -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id QAA12804 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:04:46 +1000 Received: (qmail 27672 invoked by uid 38); 17 Sep 1999 06:04:36 -0000 Resent-Date: 17 Sep 1999 06:04:36 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: bf347@lafn.org Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:04:20 -0700 Message-Id: <199909170604.AA09311@lafn.org> From: bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer) To: guylhemlistes@free.fr Subject: Re: Translations (to English?) Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Reply-To: bf347@lafn.org Resent-Message-ID: <4jr8BC.A.PwG.0nd43@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/467 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Guylhem wrote" >Interesting idea, I think each local LDP has at least 1 unique HOWTO >(for ex., french LDP has a MODEM-HOWTO since 96, it is better than >LDP MODEM-HOWTO which was written very recently) As the author of Modem-HOWTO, I've been aware of (and have a copy of) the French howto. While it may be better written (I can't read it) it is obsolete since it doesn't cover the current issues of Winmodems, Plug-and-Play, and PCI. It also is broader than my howto and covers all types of modems, but we have mini-howtos on DSL and Cable modems in English. Someone did start to translate and/or merge the howtos but it never worked out (I was too busy to learn French, etc.) Thus I would assign a low priority to translating it to English or even working on merging it. While it's not a good example to use for documents that need translating to English today, I'll agree that it should have been translated 3 years ago. David Lawyer -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id XAA10425 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 23:31:32 +1000 Received: (qmail 7794 invoked by uid 38); 1 Sep 1999 13:31:10 -0000 Resent-Date: 1 Sep 1999 13:31:09 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: pjones@metalab.unc.edu X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: pjones owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:21:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul Jones X-Sender: pjones@titan.oit.unc.edu To: Deb Richardson cc: Richard Ames , Matt Welsh , Greg Ferguson , Tim Bynum , ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: RE: mailing list archives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/298 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org let me clarify a bit about our part here at MetaLab (aka sunsite). 1) we are now virtual hosting www.linuxdoc.org with the cooperation of jim pick, guylhem, greg ferg and matt. all the links on the pages that are relative will read www.linuxdoc.org/blah/blah when appropriate. this is done. 2) ids for maintainers - matt (mdw), greg ferg (gregf) and tim bynum (tjbynum) all have ids on metalab with access to the LDP. we have offered the same to guylhem and to whoeverelse he specifies. greg freg and matt are already maintaining the pages and tim in on the how-tos. 3) mailing list archives - i have offered to do that and will try to get those going today if possible. 4) CVS - i have not done anything on this. when i proposed doing so, i was unaware of guylhem's plans. what he proposes in cooperation with VA would do a fine job of managing the submissions. if he (and you) would like CVS on MetaLab, we can put it up. 5) metadata - we are interested in creating metadata that would allow searching and finding and retrieval of linux documentation both on the LDP site and mentioned there in the form of links. this would allow searching for say an e-mail how-to in Italian for Debian produced in the past year if done right. the idea would be to provide a template for the authors but also to do a bit of catching up with what is already there. http://metalab.unc.edu/linsearch/ will show you what can be done based on the LSMs and software archives. This could easily include metadata pointing to the OSWG materials too. On Wed, 1 Sep 1999, Deb Richardson wrote: > > And it would be good to know where the LDP is headed. These lists are very > > quite for such an important topic. > > Matt Welsh posted a note on the LDP website on Saturday. Since then, as > far as I know, there has been little activity or discussion regarding the > direction of the LDP. For those of you who haven't seen it, Matt's note > is here: > > http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/changes.html > > I believe that someone is working on setting up proper virtual hosting for > the linuxdoc.org domain. Paul, as you know, has already offered to set up > mailing list archives. I believe that there is also some activity > regarding getting a CVS of some sort set up on MetaLab, but I'm not sure > what the current status of that is. A new HOWTO HOWTO is also in the > process of being written, and I believe that was mentioned here. > > I've been discussing some stuff with Nik over at the FreeBSD Documentation > Project regarding the creation of non-project-specific documentation that > may be hosted at the OSWG (ie: a Style Guide; guides to vi, emacs, > majordomo, etc.). This isn't directly related to the LDP, except for the > fact that the LDP would also be able to benefit from these docs (when they > exist). > > There has also be a fair bit of discussion regarding the LDP on the OSWG > mailing list. If you would like to read that discussion, you can find the > list archives here: > > http://linuxchix.devin.com/techwriters/ > > - deb > > > -- > > == Open Source Writers Group (OSWG) > == http://www.thepuffingroup.com/oswg > == deb@thepuffingroup.com > > > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org > > ========================================================================== Paul Jones "We must protect our precious bodily fluids!" General Jack D Ripper http://MetaLab.unc.edu/pjones/ at the Site Formerly Known As SunSITE.unc.edu pjones@MetaLab.unc.edu voice: (919) 962-7600 fax: (919) 962-8071 =========================================================================== -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0013 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id WAA13114 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 22:44:57 +1000 Received: (qmail 15458 invoked by uid 38); 12 Sep 1999 12:44:11 -0000 Resent-Date: 12 Sep 1999 12:44:11 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: guylhem@terram.oeil.qc.ca Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:01:39 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: Deb Richardson Cc: "Mr. Poet" , ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Logo Contest Message-ID: <19990911130139.B760@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: <37D965BC.1CC1F547@thepuffingroup.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="dTy3Mrz/UPE2dbVg"; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <37D965BC.1CC1F547@thepuffingroup.com>; from Deb Richardson on Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 04:10:36PM -0400 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/395 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org --dTy3Mrz/UPE2dbVg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 04:10:36PM -0400, Deb Richardson wrote: > > How do people feel about holding a logo contest for the LDP logo? I agree. > It worked for the Open Source Writers Group :) You'll probably be able > to get sponsors for the contest as well. We ended up with a prize pack I think we should now hold a logo contest ; we had already talked about this in the past, but now we have a new site, a new team... It will also help with marketting the LDP. --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Anywhere/Partout: guylhem-pager \@/ oeil.qc.ca --dTy3Mrz/UPE2dbVg Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN9o2k9+QeWug/qfFAQHDWQQAij4XlioMGw6otRqRjVL82xNYgUaIhSjC 9Rb3oIS5AusTcu7ayKxkDoY8l4vh++xroj7/EfhL3jo+vBIusdm0O2bXThgwyQyi DnkOIdzK8qLsJCyfvMR/uaCO8uB5oFId/kIMbLkacQe4Xt4SGDzWQReVkcTnaRhN zorkGD/gVWY= =O6BA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --dTy3Mrz/UPE2dbVg-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id GAA29061 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 06:11:12 +1000 Received: (qmail 26058 invoked by uid 38); 14 Sep 1999 20:09:50 -0000 Resent-Date: 14 Sep 1999 20:09:50 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: Hugo.van.der.Kooij@caiw.nl From: Hugo.van.der.Kooij@caiw.nl Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:09:29 +0200 (CEST) X-Sender: hvdkooij@bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org To: Vern Hoxie cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: SGML help needed In-Reply-To: <199909141907.NVH04373@zebra.alphacdc.com> Message-ID: X-URL: http://www.caiw.nl/~hvdkooij/ X-Loop: Hugo.van.der.Kooij@caiw.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <2dPuqD.A.0WG.Nuq33@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/441 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org On Tue, 14 Sep 1999, Vern Hoxie wrote: > I'm trying to format my new version of Serial-Programmind-HOWTO and > can't seem to generate conventional formats. .... > 6. > The sgml2txt compiler complains that it can't find 'hyphen.en'. Where > can I get this dats base and where does 'sgml' expect to find it? So you want things that were handled in Doc Book SGML but never even properly touched in linuxdoc SGML. But yet you use linuxdoc SGML for now. I suggest you turn to the SGMLtools mailinglist fro SGML assistance. But I don't think you can get anywhere close to what you want with linuxdoc SGML (as used by sgml-tools v1.0.x) and you would need DocBook SGML (as used by SGMLtools v2.0.x) to get it done. (I'm not nescessarily right but I wouldn't even know where to start with linuxdoc restrictions now I am so used to DocBook SGML. And I don't want to return to it anymore as well no I've seen the light ;-) Hugo. -- Hugo van der Kooij; Oranje Nassaustraat 16; 3155 VJ Maasland hvdkooij@caiw.nl http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~hvdkooij/ -------------------------------------------------------------- Use of any of my email addresses for unsollicited (commercial) email is a clear intrusion of my privacy and illegal! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id PAA31579 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:12:44 +1000 Received: (qmail 31759 invoked by uid 38); 15 Sep 1999 05:11:42 -0000 Resent-Date: 15 Sep 1999 05:11:42 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: Hugo.van.der.Kooij@caiw.nl From: Hugo.van.der.Kooij@caiw.nl Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 07:11:28 +0200 (CEST) X-Sender: hvdkooij@bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org To: Vern Hoxie cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: SGML help needed In-Reply-To: <199909150112.TVH04800@zebra.alphacdc.com> Message-ID: X-URL: http://www.caiw.nl/~hvdkooij/ X-Loop: Hugo.van.der.Kooij@caiw.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/443 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org On Tue, 14 Sep 1999, Vern Hoxie wrote: > On Tue, 14 Sep 1999, Hugo van der Kooij wrote: > > > On Tue, 14 Sep 1999, Vern Hoxie wrote: > > > >> I'm trying to format my new version of Serial-Programmind-HOWTO and > >> can't seem to generate conventional formats. > > > > .... > > > >> 6. > >> The sgml2txt compiler complains that it can't find 'hyphen.en'. Where > >> can I get this dats base and where does 'sgml' expect to find it? > > > > So you want things that were handled in Doc Book SGML but never even > > properly touched in linuxdoc SGML. But yet you use linuxdoc SGML for now. > > > > I suggest you turn to the SGMLtools mailinglist fro SGML > > assistance. But I don't think you can get anywhere close to what you > > want with linuxdoc SGML (as used by sgml-tools v1.0.x) and you would > > need DocBook SGML (as used by SGMLtools v2.0.x) to get it done. > > Very good! Now where do I subscribe to the SGMLtools mailinglist and > where do I get "SGMLtools v2.0.x"? You should check out the SGMLtools homepage. http://www.sgmltools.org/ All answers are there. Hugo. -- Hugo van der Kooij; Oranje Nassaustraat 16; 3155 VJ Maasland hvdkooij@caiw.nl http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~hvdkooij/ -------------------------------------------------------------- Use of any of my email addresses for unsollicited (commercial) email is a clear intrusion of my privacy and illegal! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id IAA31110 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 08:57:19 +1000 Received: (qmail 9732 invoked by uid 38); 25 Sep 1999 22:57:11 -0000 Resent-Date: 25 Sep 1999 22:57:11 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: poet@linuxports.com Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 16:06:32 -0700 (PDT) From: "Mr. Poet" X-Sender: jd@crazypenguins.commandprompt.com To: Vern Hoxie cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org, ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org, recipient list not shown: ; Subject: Re: Help compiling SGML In-Reply-To: <199909252044.OVH30542@zebra.alphacdc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/561 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Hello, This is an issue we are goint to come up against pretty heavily. SGML tools is no longer maintained and the website is not updated. For example the email list address has changed but still reflects the old address. Until somebody steps up and offers to lead that project it is going to stagnate. Poet LinuxPorts - http://www.linuxports.com LDP - http://www.linuxdoc.org On Sat, 25 Sep 1999, Vern Hoxie wrote: > I recently downloded "sgmltools-2.0.2" and I have several fatal > errors while trying to build it. > > First, there references to several "*.sty" files which are not in the > "web2c-7.2" distribution of TeX. Should these be changed to something > which is in the current TeX distribution? Where can I get the files > which are referenced? > > Second, there is was fatal error in "SgmlParser.cxx" in > "cvs/jade/lib". > > I sent copies of the error messages to Cees A. de Groot a week ago and > have yet to hear from him. Does anyone have any suggestions/fixes? > > I would like to format and submit my revised version of the > Serial-Programming-HOWTO. > > vern > > -- > Vernon C. Hoxie vern@zebra.alphacdc.com > 3975 W. 29th Ave. uucp: 303-455-2670 > Denver, Colo., 80212 voice: 303-477-1780 > There is nothing so dangerous for manipulators > as people who think for themselves. > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id MAA32085 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 12:13:03 +1000 Received: (qmail 5302 invoked by uid 38); 26 Sep 1999 02:12:04 -0000 Resent-Date: 26 Sep 1999 02:12:04 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: Hugo.van.der.Kooij@caiw.nl From: Hugo.van.der.Kooij@caiw.nl Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 04:11:35 +0200 (CEST) X-Sender: hvdkooij@bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org To: Vern Hoxie cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Help compiling SGML In-Reply-To: <199909252044.OVH30542@zebra.alphacdc.com> Message-ID: X-URL: http://www.caiw.nl/~hvdkooij/ X-Loop: Hugo.van.der.Kooij@caiw.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/563 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org On Sat, 25 Sep 1999, Vern Hoxie wrote: > I recently downloded "sgmltools-2.0.2" and I have several fatal > errors while trying to build it. .... > I sent copies of the error messages to Cees A. de Groot a week ago and > have yet to hear from him. Does anyone have any suggestions/fixes? Subscribe to the sgmltools mailinglist. Hugo. -- Hugo van der Kooij; Oranje Nassaustraat 16; 3155 VJ Maasland hvdkooij@caiw.nl http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~hvdkooij/ -------------------------------------------------------------- Use of any of my email addresses for unsollicited (commercial) email is a clear intrusion of my privacy and illegal! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id PAA00678 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 15:42:16 +1000 Received: (qmail 24093 invoked by uid 38); 26 Sep 1999 05:42:09 -0000 Resent-Date: 26 Sep 1999 05:42:09 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: apharris@burrito.onshore.com Sender: apharris@burrito.onshore.com To: Vern Hoxie Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Help compiling SGML References: <199909260316.VVH30951@zebra.alphacdc.com> From: Adam Di Carlo Date: 26 Sep 1999 01:42:42 -0400 In-Reply-To: Vern Hoxie's message of "Sat, 25 Sep 1999 21:16:28 -0600" Message-ID: Lines: 12 User-Agent: Gnus/5.070096 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.96) Emacs/20.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <8kuUu.A.U4F.xIb73@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/569 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Vern Hoxie writes: > > Subscribe to the sgmltools mailinglist. > > Fine! > > Now Where?? When?? How?? See http://www.sgmltools.org/feedback.html -- .....Adam Di Carlo....adam@onShore.com..... -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id RAA01331 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 17:31:21 +1000 Received: (qmail 30635 invoked by uid 38); 26 Sep 1999 07:31:13 -0000 Resent-Date: 26 Sep 1999 07:31:13 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: poet@linuxports.com Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 00:40:36 -0700 (PDT) From: "Mr. Poet" X-Sender: jd@crazypenguins.commandprompt.com To: Vern Hoxie cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org, ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org, recipient list not shown: ; Subject: Re: Help compiling SGML In-Reply-To: <199909260627.AVH31356@zebra.alphacdc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <2RUrxC.A.eeH.Bvc73@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/574 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Vern, It is ALL over the linuxdoc website on how to subscribe to this list. LinuxPorts - http://www.linuxports.com LDP - http://www.linuxdoc.org On Sun, 26 Sep 1999, Vern Hoxie wrote: > On 26 Sep 1999, Adam Di Carlo wrote: > > > Vern Hoxie writes: > > > >>> Subscribe to the sgmltools mailinglist. > >> > >> Fine! > >> > >> Now Where?? When?? How?? > > > > See http://www.sgmltools.org/feedback.html > > Why is necessary to be so cryptic? > > It took me three days to subscribe to this list, ldp-discuss, because > no one bothered to mention that the special incantation needed. > Instead of sending subscription requests to > "ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org", they had to be sent to > "ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org". > > For what it's worth, everyone doesn't have full time connections to > the WWW. > > vern > > -- > Vernon C. Hoxie vern@zebra.alphacdc.com > 3975 W. 29th Ave. uucp: 303-455-2670 > Denver, Colo., 80212 voice: 303-477-1780 > There is nothing so dangerous for manipulators > as people who think for themselves. > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id LAA06604 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:37:02 +1000 Received: (qmail 18582 invoked by uid 38); 27 Sep 1999 01:36:55 -0000 Resent-Date: 27 Sep 1999 01:36:55 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: poet@linuxports.com Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 18:46:18 -0700 (PDT) From: "Mr. Poet" X-Sender: jd@crazypenguins.commandprompt.com To: Kendall Clark cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org, ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org, recipient list not shown: ; Subject: Re: Comments on web site. In-Reply-To: <14318.50402.886843.340817@cmpu.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <-Im3FB.A.KiE.2os73@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/593 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Hello, Before we make assumptions that we have no idea about, let me state that a request has been put to several people for a written history about the LDP. We have yet to receive the document. We are also in the process of creating a sponsors document and an Auhtors section to give credit where credit is due in regards to hosting, programming and all of that kind of stuff. In regards to the Core Team statement, although there are a few out there that could truly care less about who the "team" is. I can honestly say that since we have placed the members in a very visible place people have been actually been becoming positive about the project. I have been contacted on numerous occasions about "Gee, it is nice to see who I can yell at now". It has also served a great deal in helping people direct their email to the correct places instead of just one person getting all of it. So next time, try asking question as to why or what instead of crawling on a soap box. We are working extrememly hard to turn the LDP into a much better situation than it has been in recent months, be patient we are trying to rebuild a lot of this from scratch. Poet LinuxPorts - http://www.linuxports.com LDP - http://www.linuxdoc.org On Sun, 26 Sep 1999, Kendall Clark wrote: > >>>>> "Terry" == Terry Dawson writes: > > Terry> Most people are going to be more interested in the > Terry> documentation than the core team .. I suggest reordering > Terry> the sidebar descending as: > > I couldn't agree more; this is astoundingly obnoxious as it currently > is; I can't recall any free software project with a more > self-promotive "core team" section. Not only is it just overly > self-promotive of the "core team" (which has, after all, only been in > place for a few months), but it also doesn't say *anything* about who > started the project, it's history, those who went before, etc. > > This is very much not in the spirit of the free software community, > and I'd certainly like to see it changed. > > The overall impression is very misleading; it is, undoubtedly, the > vast array of authors who together make the LDP an invaluable > resource; you "core team" guys need to dial down the egos. > > Best, > > Kendall Clark > User Group HOWTO > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id MAA07006 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:51:26 +1000 Received: (qmail 22343 invoked by uid 38); 27 Sep 1999 02:51:11 -0000 Resent-Date: 27 Sep 1999 02:51:11 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: poet@linuxports.com Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 20:00:39 -0700 (PDT) From: "Mr. Poet" X-Sender: jd@crazypenguins.commandprompt.com To: Kendall Clark cc: "Mr. Poet" , ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org, ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: Comments on web site. In-Reply-To: <14318.54418.470835.157879@cmpu.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/596 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Hello, Yes, we solicited comments and we have received far more positive than negative. It is not the negative that my email was about it was the approach that was taken. The actual point of this email is this. You are invited to give feedback. We welcome it, in fact I expect it, but put your money where your mouth is. If you don't like something give me not only the reasons why but what you would do to change it. What you would like to see and what "If" you were webmaster you would do. Stuff like this is useful, we like useful positive or not. The alternate is compost. Poet LinuxPorts - http://www.linuxports.com LDP - http://www.linuxdoc.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id XAA17016 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 23:16:39 +1000 Received: (qmail 2461 invoked by uid 38); 2 Sep 1999 13:16:12 -0000 Resent-Date: 2 Sep 1999 13:16:12 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: dan@telent.net To: Marco Budde Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: LDP Proposal by Deb References: <199908282016.AA17908@lafn.org> <37CC0D33.3E682077@tu-harburg.de> From: Daniel Barlow Date: 02 Sep 1999 14:06:39 +0100 In-Reply-To: Marco Budde's message of "Tue, 31 Aug 1999 17:13:23 +0000" Message-ID: <87671to42o.fsf@tninkpad.telent.net> Lines: 40 User-Agent: Gnus/5.070095 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.95) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: Daniel Barlow Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/304 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org [Cc list trimmed ] Marco Budde writes: > Do you really think it´s a good idea to publish HOWTO > automatically? One major problem of the LDP is the quality > of the HOWTOs. The LDP needs editors which are responsible > for the quality of the HOWTOs. For publishing new versions of existing HOWTOs, given the current people availability, then yes, I do. For publishing new HOWTOs then there ought still to be manual intervention, I agree. If people are going to volunteer as editors (please do!) then the author can send the editor his document and the editor can send it onto the automatic submission process. (If there were CVS, the author would commit his changes then the editor "cvs update", make changes, and commit the edited version back. A standard CVS tag - RELEASE, say - could be used to let the submission engine know which version is considered "publish-ready") Until editors happen, though, I don't see any point in holding up the submission process because there's a gap where they should be. > > Accepting money from any commercial organization that publishes our > > documents is OK if it's given to authors after their existing work is > > published. However, bear in mind that it is more beneficial to the > > public if we are not paid since then the public gets our work at lower > > This is not right. The book company could pay the author to > improve his HOWTO or to write a new one. When the author gets > money for his work, he can spend more time on the HOWTO. So > the public will get better HOWTOs, too. I agree with Marco here. i don't see that the Linux kernel is notably worse because Alan Cox receives money from Red Hat. -dan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id DAA11656 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 03:58:26 +1000 Received: (qmail 8884 invoked by uid 38); 1 Sep 1999 17:58:12 -0000 Resent-Date: 1 Sep 1999 17:58:12 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: pjones@metalab.unc.edu X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: pjones owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 13:38:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul Jones X-Sender: pjones@titan.oit.unc.edu To: Ismael Olea cc: Daniel Barlow , Jane Greenberg , Efron Miles , mdw@metalab.unc.edu, ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org, linux-central , Ismael Olea Subject: Re: LDP and Metadata In-Reply-To: <37CD6358.84310980@tsai.es> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/300 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by albert.animats.net id DAA11656 yes yes yes! we are right on the same track. i was only pointing LDP folks toward an already established and working archive of Linux resources, but I agree what we do *should* be Dublin Core. Jane will be giving a talk at the DC meeting upcoming (in case anyone will be there, look her up) on how LSMs fit in. I agree completely that XML is also part of the solution and fits exactly with what we want to do. should we start another list for implementers of metadata or do the rest of you want to hear all of this? BTW Jane, Miles and I are part of the School of Information and Library Science here at University of North Carolina so we have some special reasons to be interested and to work on this. On Wed, 1 Sep 1999, Ismael Olea wrote: > > > Paul Jones escribió: > > > interestingly enough as we were installing and testing linsearch and going > > back thru the LSM history (Lars managed the LSMs at one time), jane > > greenberg--who specializes in metadata development, miles efron--who > > implemented linsearch, and i were discussing how to propose a metadata > > discussion for the LDP authors. if you like we could whip up a simple > > proposed template based on the LSM for your discussion. > > Hi! > > From some weeks I'm studing some technics of bibliographic management > for the LDP-es. I'm looking for time to develop some specs and a > prototype but until today it isn't possible. > > Almost I've got some ideas very clear. I see the need of metadata for > correct and optimun doc management. It's yet another step for the LDP to > create an metadata enviroment for publishing docs and recovering > information. > > But I think that the way it's not LSM. I don't had time to study it but > I suspect that the RDF + DC are the key technologies. > > RDF is a 3W Consortium standard for schema development on XML. > DC is the Dublin Core Metadata, a RFC schema developed for documents on > the net. > > For who didn't know about these issues, DC is a Schema for docs as LSM > is a Schema for software files. > > The 3W Consortium suggest to use RDF+DC. It's mean that each doc must > have an RDF-DC description. Each description is an XML document. > > I think the advantage of using these technologies are clear: all are > strong standards well developed and published by very well > organizations. > > With metadata descriptions expressed in RDF-DC is relative simple to > feed an automated database for automatic publishing and consulting > (information retrieval/searching and file downloads). I've got some > ideas for an aplication like this. If you know, ESR and others are > working in a tool called Trove for managing files in Metalab (and other > repositories). I think Trove specs has got some very good ideas but it > fails refusing xml. I've got some very clever ideas too (IMHO O:-) for > distributing load and replicanting info. > > I think the xml approach is ideal. The resulting tool will be a general > appliance tool, very flexible, very powerful and useful for hundreds of > projects on the net. Indeed, the perfect tool for LDP. > > I wish to offer a prototipe but today only can offer some ideas drafted > in a doc (in Spanish). If someone is interested I could try to translate > into English. > > PD: one of the advantages of the xml approach is that is possible to > develop an RDF schema based on LSM. It's mean that the same architecture > could instance a soft repository based on LSM :-) > PPD: Sorry this terrible English O:-/ > -- > > Ismael Olea > TSAI, Área Sistemas, Unix tlf. 91-7548748 > > olea@tsai.es olea@iname.com > ========================================================================== Paul Jones "We must protect our precious bodily fluids!" General Jack D Ripper http://MetaLab.unc.edu/pjones/ at the Site Formerly Known As SunSITE.unc.edu pjones@MetaLab.unc.edu voice: (919) 962-7600 fax: (919) 962-8071 =========================================================================== -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id GAA03420 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 06:51:06 +1000 Received: (qmail 27452 invoked by uid 38); 15 Sep 1999 20:50:02 -0000 Resent-Date: 15 Sep 1999 20:50:02 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: garym@maya.dyndns.org Sender: garym@mail.wccweb.com To: Ismael Olea Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: LDP bug-tracker References: <37DE20E9.3E616EF6@tsai.es> From: Gary Lawrence Murphy Date: 15 Sep 1999 16:49:36 -0400 Message-ID: Reply-To: Gary Lawrence Murphy Organization: TeleDynamics --- the Art of Being There X-Url: http://www.teledyn.com/ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/449 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org >>>>> "I" == Ismael Olea writes: I> Gary Lawrence Murphy escribió: >> I'm interested in any others if there are open source problem >> trackers, and especially any based on Postgres (bugzilla is >> tied to the non-OS MySQL) I> There is a GPL version of MySQL. Not according to the MySQL website --- only old and obsolete versions are under GPL >From http://www.tcx.se/Manual_chapter/manual_Licensing_and_Support.html 3.2.1 Possible future copyright changes We may choose to distribute older versions of MySQL with the GPL in the future. However, these versions will be identified as GNU MySQL. Also, all copyright notices in the relevant files will be changed to the GPL. As it stands right now, only MySQL_GPL 3.20.32a is available, which means it is up to the community to reverse engineer all the bug fixes employed since then, and tcx is not going to provide any tech support; their resources are going only into their commercial release --- at least Netscape is employing full-time resources to manage and develop Mozilla. Although it technically is GPL, this is not what I would call GPL --- someday, if the community takes 3.20.32a, figures out how to fix it and works it into something superior to or at least comparable to the mainstream release, but for right now, they are basically giving us their garbage so they won't be responsible to provide support for code to their paying customers. If you ask me, the whole deal smells kind of funny. -- Gary Lawrence Murphy TeleDynamics Communications Inc Business Telecom Services : Internet Consulting : http://www.teledyn.com Linux Writers Workshop Archive: http://www.egroups.com/group/linux-hack/ "You don't play what you know; you play what you hear." -- (Miles Davis) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id MAA11795 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:18:40 +1000 Received: (qmail 1477 invoked by uid 38); 17 Sep 1999 02:18:33 -0000 Resent-Date: 17 Sep 1999 02:18:33 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: garym@maya.dyndns.org Sender: garym@mail.wccweb.com To: Ismael Olea Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: LDP bug-tracker References: <37DE20A1.A71DCD78@tsai.es> <37E11810.33499697@tsai.es> From: Gary Lawrence Murphy Date: 16 Sep 1999 22:18:13 -0400 Message-ID: Reply-To: Gary Lawrence Murphy Organization: TeleDynamics --- the Art of Being There X-Url: http://www.teledyn.com/ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/465 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org >>>>> "I" == Ismael Olea writes: I> Ismael Olea escribió: I> Did anybody visit the Insflug URL? I visited the site, but could not find the source code to their tracker. Babelfish could not translate the site for me because of their use of CSS files. The demonstration of it looks nice, but I couldn't understand enough to know if it would be useful. -- Gary Lawrence Murphy TeleDynamics Communications Inc Business Telecom Services : Internet Consulting : http://www.teledyn.com Linux Writers Workshop Archive: http://www.egroups.com/group/linux-hack/ "You don't play what you know; you play what you hear." -- (Miles Davis) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id IAA15152 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 08:59:10 +1000 Received: (qmail 31964 invoked by uid 38); 29 Aug 1999 22:56:13 -0000 Resent-Date: 29 Aug 1999 22:56:12 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: pjones@metalab.unc.edu X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: pjones owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 18:53:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul Jones X-Sender: pjones@titan.oit.unc.edu To: P Jenner cc: mdw@metalab.unc.edu, ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org, Bert Dempsey , ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org, recipient list not shown: ; Subject: Re: LDP web site - suggestions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Mj09HB.A.7yH.Lqby3"@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/284 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org i agree on the www.xxx.linuxdoc.org for the mirrors. it's worked well, when the mirrors are kept up to date, for kernel.org. internet 2's distributed storage initiative is working on a smarter version that let you do one dns call, then a modified dns server (sonar-dns) looks at the internet weather (traffic, server load, etc) and sends you to the best site (where best is the most likely to be fastest for you). they also have a modified rsync that helps out mirroring in a smarter way http://www.internet2.edu/dsi/ for details. whilst this is not an immediate solution, i think it's worth keeping an eye on--plus bert is my collegue and is interested in using desirable datagroups like LDP and the MetaLab Linux Archives as test cases. i also want to write a little about using metadata, but will save that for another message. ========================================================================== Paul Jones "We must protect our precious bodily fluids!" General Jack D Ripper http://MetaLab.unc.edu/pjones/ at the Site Formerly Known As SunSITE.unc.edu pjones@MetaLab.unc.edu voice: (919) 962-7600 fax: (919) 962-8071 =========================================================================== -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id JAA15292 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:24:47 +1000 Received: (qmail 28872 invoked by uid 38); 29 Aug 1999 23:24:35 -0000 Resent-Date: 29 Aug 1999 23:24:35 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: dan@telent.net To: P Jenner Cc: mdw@metalab.unc.edu, ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: LDP web site - suggestions References: From: Daniel Barlow Date: 30 Aug 1999 00:19:08 +0100 In-Reply-To: P Jenner's message of "Sun, 29 Aug 1999 23:41:50 +0100 (GMT)" Message-ID: <87iu5ygopf.fsf@tninkpad.telent.net> Lines: 22 User-Agent: Gnus/5.070095 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.95) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: Daniel Barlow Resent-Message-ID: <"YgYLVD.A.fCH.yEcy3"@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/288 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org P Jenner writes: > On the LDP website you ask for suggestions - I have two relatively > simple ones: Here's another (largely frivolous, but still) "When people show up to program, offering to write software, and I find out they can write documentation, I beg them to write documentation instead. Because good documentation is essential and for a free system we need free documentation." -- Richard Stallman Best check with him first that it's OK to use his words (Richard, are you on this list?) but I think it's the kind of positive quote that would help displace the perception that documentation is the "second best" thing that's only for people who can't program (It's taken from an interview with LinuxWorld, available at http://www.linuxworld.com/linuxworldtoday/lwt-indepth7.html) -dan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id NAA16382 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 13:21:32 +1000 Received: (qmail 27156 invoked by uid 38); 30 Aug 1999 03:21:25 -0000 Resent-Date: 30 Aug 1999 03:21:25 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: mdw@bhikku.CS.Berkeley.EDU Message-Id: <199908300324.UAA16512@bhikku.CS.Berkeley.EDU> To: P Jenner cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org From: Matt Welsh Reply-To: Matt Welsh Subject: Re: LDP web site - suggestions In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 29 Aug 1999 23:41:50 BST." Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 20:24:25 -0700 Sender: mdw@cs.berkeley.edu Resent-Message-ID: <"51ry2B.A.LoG.1ify3"@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/289 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Paul, I think both of those things are in the works. I'll be sure to add them to the list of things to do! mdw -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id UAA12817 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:56:52 +1000 Received: (qmail 1303 invoked by uid 38); 9 Sep 1999 10:56:45 -0000 Resent-Date: 9 Sep 1999 10:56:45 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: guylhem@terram.oeil.qc.ca Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 22:49:53 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: P Jenner Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Should we split mini HOWTOs? Message-ID: <19990908224953.A729@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: <19990903215234.A523@victis.oeil.qc.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="5mCyUwZo2JvN/JJP"; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: ; from P Jenner on Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 03:48:33PM +0100 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/350 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org --5mCyUwZo2JvN/JJP Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 03:48:33PM +0100, P Jenner wrote: > > Some weeks ago, we had long discussions about mini HOWTOs, we came to > > the conclusion they should be considered as plain HOWTOs. >=20 > I agree. The distinction is pretty weak when it comes to finding > information as an LDP user. It only really seems to serve to confuse in > my experience. Here's a list of mini HOWTOs I think we should move to "plain HOWTO" status, since they adress general topics. 3-Button-Mouse.sgml Advocacy.sgml Battery-Powered.sgml BogoMips.sgml Clock.sgml IO-Port-Programming.sgml Token-Ring.sgml Utra-DMA.sgml VPN.sgml Vesafb.sgml Quota.sgml RCS.sgml I'd like to suggest some merges : [ADSL-and-CABLE HOWTO] - ADSL.sgml - Cable-Modem.sgml - DHCP.sgml [add to Sound HOWTO] - Alsa-sound.sgml [add to WWW HOWTO] - Apache+SSL+PHP+fp.sgml - Public-Web-Browser.sgml [add IPCHAINS HOWTO to Firewall HOWTO and call it "Firewall and Bridge HOWTO] - Bridge+Firewall.sgml - Bridge.sgml - Firewall-Piercing.sgml - IP-Masquerade.sgml - IP-Subnetworking.sgml - Term-Firewall.sgml [add to Bash-Prompt-HOWTO.sgml and call it "Shell HOWTO"] - Path.sgml - Colour-ls.sgml - Visual-Bell.sgml [Diskless HOWTO] - Diskless.sgml - Loopback-Root-FS.sgml - NFS-Root.sgml - Netrom-Node.sgml [Undeletion and Backup HOWTO] - Ext2fs-Undeletion.sgml - ADSM-Backup.sgml - Backup-With-MSDOS.sgml [Multiple OS HOWTO] - Large-Disk.sgml - Multiboot-with-LILO.sgml - LILO.sgml - Partition.sgml - Linux+DOS+Win95+OS2.sgml - Linux+FreeBSD.sgml - Linux+NT-Loader.sgml - Loadlin+Win95.sgml - Remote-Boot.sgml [RAID HOWTO] - Software-RAID.sgml - DPT-Hardware-RAID.sgml [Updating and Upgrading HOWTO] - Update.sgml - Upgrade.sgml [Office HOWTO] - WordPerfect.sgml - StarOffice.sgml [add to X HOWTO] - X-Big-Cursor.sgml - XFree86-XInside.sgml - LBX.sgml - NCD-X-Terminal.sgml - Remote-X-Apps.sgml [ZIP HOWTO] - Install-From-ZIP.sgml - ZIP-Drive.sgml - ZIP-Install.sgml Of course, this is just a suggestion and the list is far from complete. I'm opened to any commments. > > These "Step By Step Guides" could be submitted like standard HOWTOs, > > they would just go in a different directory, and be carefully indexed to > > ease searching in a "knowledge base" >=20 > Also a good idea in the eyes of someone who has used such > resources. A "knowledge base" as opposed to a hierarchy of documents is a > more felxible and usable approach. Merging many current mini HOWTOs to some HOWTOs would make both "knowledge base" and "howto hierarchy" approch possible. > Again I agree. Vendor dependence should definitely be avoided but > if people are having problems setting up sendmail under RH6 and someone > has written a useful and open explanation, why should users of the LDP be > denied it? As you say, an open licence also allows easy modification for > other vendors anyway. I've read other messages where I got a bad feedback for "Step by Step guides" therefore I suggest we stick to "Mini HOWTOs" name. However, we should accept any kind of document which could be handy for a specific need (like RH6 and sendmail example) as long as it is DGPL'ed. --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Anywhere/Partout: guylhem-pager \@/ oeil.qc.ca --5mCyUwZo2JvN/JJP Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN9bL8d+QeWug/qfFAQFQ3wP+PDHkHGm/6uzE5lawUW97GfcIp1pJU7HR /GXU+SVI6HlmmKHw84X6mXMrNTkhWvB7qp/ZUQVqq2nwO51/VDmIe6zUxYXTEZqS b8BBkVcYNt92mXPieuMyTCx+Sxq25yBFyaYxa8cvEbVF1O4/5iYD7ZVpEmP94lQF u/cN0lzoIqo= =cTiK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --5mCyUwZo2JvN/JJP-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id FAA21673 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 05:06:32 +1000 Received: (qmail 10824 invoked by uid 38); 10 Sep 1999 19:00:42 -0000 Resent-Date: 10 Sep 1999 19:00:42 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: gferg@hoop.timonium.sgi.com From: "Greg Ferguson" Message-Id: <9909101507.ZM14657@hoop.timonium.sgi.com> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:07:09 -0400 In-Reply-To: P Jenner "New web site" (Sep 10, 7:27pm) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: P Jenner , poet@linuxports.com, ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: New web site Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/370 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org On Sep 10, 7:27pm, P Jenner wrote: > Subject: New web site > > 4) A how to get involved or current LDP projects page would be > good to entice in volunteers. Yes, we are thinking of creating an involvement/authoring area. > 5) The search is broken. Put in "3Dfx" and it does not even return > the 3Dfx HOWTO :-( Currently only the top-level pages (docs/index/intro/mirrors/devel) are indexed and searchable. This needs to be expanded. > 6) Sections for the LDP translations would be nice too. Something > like "http://www.linuxdoc.org/es/" for spanish etc. Again, this item is on the list. All good suggestions. Ferg -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id GAA22280 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 06:41:38 +1000 Received: (qmail 13804 invoked by uid 38); 10 Sep 1999 20:41:31 -0000 Resent-Date: 10 Sep 1999 20:41:31 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: Hugo.van.der.Kooij@caiw.nl Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:39:42 +0200 (CEST) From: Hugo van der Kooij X-Sender: hvdkooij@bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org To: P Jenner cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: translation issue for web site In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-URL: http://www.caiw.nl/~hvdkooij/ X-Loop: Hugo.van.der.Kooij@caiw.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/376 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, P Jenner wrote: > http://www.XX.linuxdoc.org/YY/ > > should be a mirror of translation YY in all countries XX. Seems the best possible setup to me. Wether or not a particular language is at all opportune at a given mirror site can then be decided by the site maintainer based on actual hits. However in such a case the webmaster should redirect to the proper place. This would mean that sites having say 10 hits per month on a certain language that takes up multi megabytes of files would not have to carry along a lot of slack. The use of proper redirection should be mandatory in case a certain language is not mirrored. For example: Let us assume we have a Dutch site www.nl.linux.org. And assume there is an active Russian group writing and translating lot's of documents. There will propably be very little people wanting to read Russian documents in the Netherlands. So the webmaster decides to redirect hits to http://www.nl.linux.org/ru/ to http://www.ru.linux.org/ru/ This would free the site from keeping up with the Russian group that is actively writing documents and the site would not have to spend precious bandwith on keeping up with documents that are not used for months on that particular server. This would also save precious diskspace. Regards, Hugo. -- Hugo van der Kooij; Oranje Nassaustraat 16; 3155 VJ Maasland hvdkooij@caiw.nl http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~hvdkooij/ -------------------------------------------------------------- Use of any of my email addresses for unsollicited (commercial) email is a clear intrusion of my privacy and illegal! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id GAA22327 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 06:51:30 +1000 Received: (qmail 25719 invoked by uid 38); 10 Sep 1999 20:51:20 -0000 Resent-Date: 10 Sep 1999 20:51:19 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: rubini@morgana.systemy.it Message-ID: <19990910224953.23376@morgana.systemy.it> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:49:53 +0200 From: Alessandro Rubini To: psj@mustec.eu.org Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: QC draft & community involvement Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/377 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Hello Paul. > [good points deleted for shortness] Ok, I'm happy we are on the same track. No, in my opinion QC should definitely not slow development or cut the community out. As I foresee it, QC's work would mainly consist in approving documents. The real value is in the guarantee that at least one knowlegeable person looked over the document (in addition to the author). It is possible that the rules as proposed are too strict, or they just may *look* too strict (which would be bad as well, because our readership judges the LDP based on our manifestos). > I hope these comments are positive and I hope you don't mind but I > CC'd ldp-discuss with this one as I believe [...] Sure. This discussion must go public. /alessandro -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id EAA28237 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 04:44:07 +1000 Received: (qmail 28639 invoked by uid 38); 11 Sep 1999 18:43:59 -0000 Resent-Date: 11 Sep 1999 18:43:59 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: pjones@metalab.unc.edu X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: pjones owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 14:43:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul Jones X-Sender: pjones@titan.oit.unc.edu To: P Jenner cc: Efron Miles , Jane Greenberg , ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: translation issue for web site In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/389 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org as we've been talking about metadata for documents referenced in the LDP, we too have come across the language issue. the problem in this discussion is that several countries have several languages. whilst one might expect say english at www.uk, you might also expect to find documents in welsh there too. the ids are one way to show a local site with, perhaps, special needs of people in that location, and, again perhaps, better connectivity (more reliable and faster) access for folks close by. but frankly as Paul (the other Paul) has begun to show, this plan is flawed all the way round (but better than nothing at all). still better to have something like mirrorwatch to show you which sites are virtually close to solve the connectivity question, say, or to have document-related metadata to tell you if a document is in a specific language and, via another tag, whether the document has localized information. so that you could find a french language document dealing with north african issues perhaps on a not very busy but only a few hops away canadian mirror. ========================================================================== Paul Jones "We must protect our precious bodily fluids!" General Jack D Ripper http://MetaLab.unc.edu/pjones/ at the Site Formerly Known As SunSITE.unc.edu pjones@MetaLab.unc.edu voice: (919) 962-7600 fax: (919) 962-8071 =========================================================================== -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id UAA12565 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:48:23 +1000 Received: (qmail 6332 invoked by uid 38); 12 Sep 1999 10:48:16 -0000 Resent-Date: 12 Sep 1999 10:48:16 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: dan@telent.net To: P Jenner Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: translation issue for web site References: From: Daniel Barlow Date: 12 Sep 1999 11:39:53 +0100 In-Reply-To: P Jenner's message of "Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:01:43 +0100 (GMT)" Message-ID: <871zc49zwm.fsf@tninkpad.telent.net> Lines: 21 User-Agent: Gnus/5.070095 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.95) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: Daniel Barlow Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/393 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org P Jenner writes: > My argument is that all translations should also be mirrored in > each country so that non-native speakers or others who for some reason use > the mirror should have full access. My suggestion was that: > > http://www.XX.linuxdoc.org/YY/ > > should be a mirror of translation YY in all countries XX. > > Comments? Comment: you need to consider character encodings as well.. I'd like to refer you to the FreeBSD DOcumentation Project, which recently re-organised its archives (at considerable pain) to cope with multiple languages, countries and encodings. Nik Clayton wrote a very helpful post describing it all, which you can find at http://linuxchix.devin.com/techwriters/1999-Jul_Aug/0265.html It'd be silly not to learn from their experience. -dan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id KAA16698 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:43:07 +1000 Received: (qmail 5966 invoked by uid 38); 13 Sep 1999 00:33:17 -0000 Resent-Date: 13 Sep 1999 00:33:17 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: garym@maya.dyndns.org Sender: garym@mail.wccweb.com To: P Jenner Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: If you are interested References: From: Gary Lawrence Murphy Date: 12 Sep 1999 20:30:30 -0400 Message-ID: Reply-To: Gary Lawrence Murphy Organization: TeleDynamics --- the Art of Being There X-Url: http://www.teledyn.com/ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/406 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org >>>>> "P" == P Jenner writes: P> On 12 Sep 1999, Gary Lawrence Murphy wrote: >> Ok, it was a general search, but does it really make sense to >> to international searching without asking? P> Maybe but many users will be using different languages - to P> default to US English is probably a bad thing. I would also P> think that most users could ignore translations they do not P> require. It's up to you of course, but I think it is far less likely that most users will speak all European languages. It makes most sense to ask for the language(s) of preference up front rather than to litter their search with papers the reader cannot read (unless we licence a babelfish from AltaVista) Based on pure numbers in Internet traffic, having a select box that defaults to english (with the option to choose another) is not a bad idea, and if you can deduce the most likely language from the REMOTE_HOST (trim the end of their host name for the 2-letter country code), then by all means have the select box set the first-search language to something other than English, but why should we assume the average Taiwanese Linux user either knows Italian or doens't mind wading through three pages of irrelevant Italian before finding what they seek? Lumping languages together is like a bad thesaurus: "Solo" is not the only case of a technically rare term which is a common word in another language. If the documents where somehow semantically linked, say by having all non-language technical terms in keyword tags, it would be a different story. Anyway, it's just my opinion ;) The only real way to tell is to try it out on the public and see what they do with it. -- Gary Lawrence Murphy TeleDynamics Communications Inc Business Telecom Services : Internet Consulting : http://www.teledyn.com Linux Writers Workshop Archive: http://www.egroups.com/group/linux-hack/ "You don't play what you know; you play what you hear." -- (Miles Davis) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id MAA17102 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:06:04 +1000 Received: (qmail 31032 invoked by uid 38); 13 Sep 1999 02:05:56 -0000 Resent-Date: 13 Sep 1999 02:05:56 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: garym@maya.dyndns.org Sender: garym@mail.wccweb.com To: P Jenner Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: If you are interested References: From: Gary Lawrence Murphy Date: 12 Sep 1999 22:05:42 -0400 Message-ID: Reply-To: Gary Lawrence Murphy Organization: TeleDynamics --- the Art of Being There X-Url: http://www.teledyn.com/ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/411 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org >>>>> "P" == P Jenner writes: P> Is Excite Free Software? Excite is free for non-commercial use, but it is not 'libre' software. The same is true for the very excellent Thunderstone Webinator. Of the GPL/BSD search engines, I haven't found a really heavy duty one, but asearch and Perlfect show some promise --- to be fair, there are many and my work has only required either outfitting our little intranet or search tools for very large, national ISPs and websites -- Gary Lawrence Murphy TeleDynamics Communications Inc Business Telecom Services : Internet Consulting : http://www.teledyn.com Linux Writers Workshop Archive: http://www.egroups.com/group/linux-hack/ "You don't play what you know; you play what you hear." -- (Miles Davis) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id MAA17120 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:08:44 +1000 Received: (qmail 466 invoked by uid 38); 13 Sep 1999 02:08:36 -0000 Resent-Date: 13 Sep 1999 02:08:36 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: garym@maya.dyndns.org Sender: garym@mail.wccweb.com To: P Jenner Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: linuxdoc search & languages References: From: Gary Lawrence Murphy Date: 12 Sep 1999 22:08:21 -0400 Message-ID: Reply-To: Gary Lawrence Murphy Organization: TeleDynamics --- the Art of Being There X-Url: http://www.teledyn.com/ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/412 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org >>>>> "P" == P Jenner writes: P> True enough. I thought you were to recommend an English only P> search but this is a good idea. It could do with an "all P> languages box" as well though as doc may exsit for something P> within one translation and not another. This is the reason for the depth-first search: If I search in French for some technical term which never occurs in the French pages, the search index can be set with a language order that is unique for each language (French speakers may understand enough Italian to make it their second choice, but Taiwanese speakers are very likely to want English as their second choice) The Thunderstone Webinator is very good at this (www.thunderstone.com) and is free for non-commercial uses (I think). It can also be maintained via a web interface. -- Gary Lawrence Murphy TeleDynamics Communications Inc Business Telecom Services : Internet Consulting : http://www.teledyn.com Linux Writers Workshop Archive: http://www.egroups.com/group/linux-hack/ "You don't play what you know; you play what you hear." -- (Miles Davis) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id GAA22174 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 06:22:22 +1000 Received: (qmail 24485 invoked by uid 38); 13 Sep 1999 20:16:10 -0000 Resent-Date: 13 Sep 1999 20:16:10 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: poet@linuxports.com Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:18:33 -0700 (PDT) From: "Mr. Poet" X-Sender: jd@crazypenguins.commandprompt.com To: P Jenner cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org, ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org, recipient list not shown: ; Subject: Re: LDP bug-tracker In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/433 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org This is something that Greg an I will take care of. LinuxPorts - http://www.linuxports.com LDP - http://www.linuxdoc.org On Mon, 13 Sep 1999, P Jenner wrote: > > It seems a sensible addition for the LDP to have a bug-tracker in > the same way as any other major Open Source project. Is anyone willing to > arrange such a thing? It can quite easily be set up in such a way as it > runs itself and I am sure someone would host it even if linuxdoc could > not. > > Paul > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Paul S Jenner > GNU/Linux Advocate > > E-mail: psj@mustec.eu.org > WWW: http://www.mustec.eu.org/~psj/ > > UNSOLICITED COMMERCIAL E-MAIL IS NOT WELCOME AT THIS ADDRESS > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id OAA24609 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:45:41 +1000 Received: (qmail 20983 invoked by uid 38); 14 Sep 1999 04:45:31 -0000 Resent-Date: 14 Sep 1999 04:45:31 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: garym@maya.dyndns.org Sender: garym@mail.wccweb.com To: P Jenner Cc: Paul Jones , "Mr. Poet" , ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: If you are interested References: From: Gary Lawrence Murphy Date: 14 Sep 1999 00:44:27 -0400 Message-ID: Reply-To: Gary Lawrence Murphy Organization: TeleDynamics --- the Art of Being There X-Url: http://www.teledyn.com/ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/434 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org >>>>> "P" == P Jenner writes: P> On 12 Sep 1999, Gary Lawrence Murphy wrote: >> ... My personal view is the observation that where open >> source scratches an itch, it will be superior software, but >> that it doesn't follow that any open source program is better >> for a purpose than commercial software. P> Again I believe that the LDP has a duty to use only Free P> Software. If it does not then it loses something of its P> standing as a champion of that cause. This does make some political sense, but can also create extra work for a volunteer org. I recommend we do a very careful evaluation of any new products to ensure our solution is just as effective as any non-free solution. My main business is in introducing and interpreting open source systems for commercial clients, and I am quite convinced the enormous growth over 1999 is not from people like us who are forgiving of awkward interfaces and missing pieces, or those who know or care what a regexp is. The new Linux users are Windows NT refugees, and while they are not enthusiastic about their old platform, they are enthusiastic about its peer support sites such as the Microsoft Knowledge Base. I liken the current state of Linux to the discovery of the New World. >From 1610 to even 1850, a pioneer did not expect any support. Everything they used was build by their own hands or those of close friends. I put Linus and Alan Cox and other core people in this camp. Next came the ranchers from 1850 to 1930. These were people drawn by the stories of the pioneers and who, while they could fix their own well pumps, cabins and fences, they travelled in carts on roads and depended on the trade routes, tools, and natural resources discovered and developed by the pioneers. They are still very resourceful and accustomed to extra work just to enjoy their freedom, but they were not as willing to risk everything as were the pioneers; I expect everyone here is in that camp. Finally, in came the covered wagons ;) They want flush toilets, stable electricity, pony express postal service, telegraph service, hot water for baths, tailored clothes, education, imported beer :) ... this is who is coming in to Linux now, and (thanks to book writers such as myself) they are all being told the LDP is the number one resource. As the "front door" of Linux, we need to demonstrate that our O/S is ready for serious consideration in enterprise computing. IMHO, the LDP has the most critical, most difficult, most expensive, and the scariest job of all the orgs in Y2K ;) Say ... isn't google open source? -- Gary Lawrence Murphy TeleDynamics Communications Inc Business Telecom Services : Internet Consulting : http://www.teledyn.com Linux Writers Workshop Archive: http://www.egroups.com/group/linux-hack/ "You don't play what you know; you play what you hear." -- (Miles Davis) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". 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Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id UAA26236 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:14:10 +1000 Received: (qmail 14568 invoked by uid 38); 14 Sep 1999 10:13:54 -0000 Resent-Date: 14 Sep 1999 10:13:53 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: olea@tsai.es Message-ID: <37DE20A1.A71DCD78@tsai.es> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:17:05 +0200 From: Ismael Olea X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [es] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: es-ES,es,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: P Jenner , ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org CC: Francisco Jose Montilla Subject: Re: LDP bug-tracker References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Infomail-Id: 937303871.6D61010A81106E.43871 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/437 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by albert.animats.net id UAA26236 P Jenner escribió: > > It seems a sensible addition for the LDP to have a bug-tracker in > the same way as any other major Open Source project. Is anyone willing to > arrange such a thing? It can quite easily be set up in such a way as it > runs itself and I am sure someone would host it even if linuxdoc could > not. The Howto-es (Insflug)( project has developed one of this: http://www.insflug.org/comos/comos.php3 (Cómo is the Spanish convention name for howto). -- Ismael Olea TSAI, Área Sistemas, Unix tlf. 91-7548748 olea@tsai.es olea@iname.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id OAA24659 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:53:48 +1000 Received: (qmail 25532 invoked by uid 38); 14 Sep 1999 04:53:41 -0000 Resent-Date: 14 Sep 1999 04:53:41 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: garym@maya.dyndns.org Sender: garym@mail.wccweb.com To: "Greg Ferguson" Cc: Tim , ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org, poet@linuxports.com Subject: Re: Kernel Hackers Guide References: <9909131248.ZM19831@hoop.timonium.sgi.com> From: Gary Lawrence Murphy Date: 14 Sep 1999 00:53:19 -0400 Message-ID: Reply-To: Gary Lawrence Murphy Organization: TeleDynamics --- the Art of Being There X-Url: http://www.teledyn.com/ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <5O7sMB.A.zOG.VTd33@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/436 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Any authors who want to get paid to revise or rewrite parts of this should let me know asap. -- Gary Lawrence Murphy TeleDynamics Communications Inc Business Telecom Services : Internet Consulting : http://www.teledyn.com Linux Writers Workshop Archive: http://www.egroups.com/group/linux-hack/ "You don't play what you know; you play what you hear." -- (Miles Davis) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id BAA08727 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 01:49:01 +1000 Received: (qmail 30915 invoked by uid 38); 16 Sep 1999 15:37:17 -0000 Resent-Date: 16 Sep 1999 15:37:16 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: poet@linuxports.com Message-Id: <199909161536.IAA27483@crazypenguins.commandprompt.com> From: "{poet}" Organization: CommandPrompt Software To: gferg@linuxdoc.org Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 08:22:49 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: (Fwd) Re: linuxdoc.org: copyright and Manifesto Reply-to: poet@linuxports.com CC: LDP discuss Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/457 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org I have forwarded this to greg to update. ------- Forwarded message follows ------- Date forwarded: 16 Sep 1999 08:04:25 -0000 Date sent: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 10:03:28 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: Terry Dawson Copies to: LDP discuss Subject: Re: linuxdoc.org: copyright and Manifesto Forwarded by: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org On Thu, Sep 16, 1999 at 05:21:17PM +1000, Terry Dawson wrote: (...) > I believe the intent of the clause in question is embodied by the second > half where it states that the "Linux Documentation Project" should not be > listed as a copyright holder. Interesting comments. We will fix that ASAP. -- Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Save East Timor: http://altern.org/spoirier/timor.html http://www.pst-timor.org ------- End of forwarded message ------- LinuxPorts - http://www.linuxports.com LDP - http://www.linuxdoc.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id MAA11849 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:29:36 +1000 Received: (qmail 8250 invoked by uid 38); 17 Sep 1999 02:29:29 -0000 Resent-Date: 17 Sep 1999 02:29:29 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: garym@maya.dyndns.org Sender: garym@mail.wccweb.com To: "Greg Ferguson" Cc: Mark Komarinski , ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: linuxdoc.org: copyright and Manifesto References: <19990916172117.B6135@albert.animats.net> <9909161707.ZM25566@hoop.timonium.sgi.com> <37E161F1.9CC59D14@cgipc.com> <9909161813.ZM25636@hoop.timonium.sgi.com> From: Gary Lawrence Murphy Date: 16 Sep 1999 22:29:16 -0400 Message-ID: Reply-To: Gary Lawrence Murphy Organization: TeleDynamics --- the Art of Being There X-Url: http://www.teledyn.com/ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/466 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org On Sep 16, 5:32pm, Mark Komarinski wrote: >> Subject: Re: linuxdoc.org: copyright and Manifesto Should >> authors who wish to use this copyright just reference the URL, >> or should they include it as part of the document? Is the LDP a body of work, or a library? It seems to me a valid purpose of the LDP would be to give guidance to authors to retain consistent style among documents of certain types (howtos, manuals, whitepapers, minis &c) although, as we get things properly indexed and cataloged, those types should vanish with time and all docs would just melt into some giant thing called the LDP. To do something like this and also be comprehensive, we'd need to accomodate any licence any author may wish to apply. That leads to having tiers of licences to distinguish those docs which are public domain (anyone can change anything including authorship) from those where some or even all rights are reserved. For example, the OPL (opencontent.org) allows for documents to prohibit print editions, but be freely distributed electronically; NewRiders, SAMS and ORA books under this licence could be taken apart and distributed as individual papers in an "electronic annex" to the LDP, and could be included by CD-harvesters like LSL and CheapBytes, whereas the core LDP texts could also be printed and bound by low budget publishers. Where does the OPL fit into the LDP agenda? As a side note, international copyright laws from the mid-80's state that copyrights are *assumed* to be strict unless otherwise stated, ie, unless you explicitely give away rights, all rights are reserved on all material; the main purpose behind the GPL and the OPLs are to be selective in the rights they give away. -- Gary Lawrence Murphy TeleDynamics Communications Inc Business Telecom Services : Internet Consulting : http://www.teledyn.com Linux Writers Workshop Archive: http://www.egroups.com/group/linux-hack/ "You don't play what you know; you play what you hear." -- (Miles Davis) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:51:13 +1000 (EST) From: terry@albert Subject: Re: LDP mirror rsync details. To: gferg@hoop.timonium.sgi.com In-Reply-To: <9909281032.ZM14964@hoop.timonium.sgi.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII On 28 Sep, Greg Ferguson wrote: > on some of the nuances of the LDP...I wasn't given a whole lot of > supporting details. > > Anyway, let me check with a couple people and get back to you ASAP. Ok, no problems. I'm surprised to hear you believe that rsync is something that was inherited. I was certainly under the impression it was a new feature, otherwise I'd have been doing it already. Perhaps it was introduced without much fanfare and I missed it. regards Terry -- terry@albert.animats.net, terry@linux.org.au From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:52:13 +1000 (EST) From: terry@albert Subject: Re: LDP mirror rsync details. To: gferg@hoop.timonium.sgi.com In-Reply-To: <9909281045.ZM15008@hoop.timonium.sgi.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII On 28 Sep, Greg Ferguson wrote: > Terry - > > Below is the relevant information for using rsync. If you have > any questions, let me know. great! thanks. regards Terry -- terry@albert.animats.net, terry@linux.org.au From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id HAA12258 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 07:04:29 +1000 Received: (qmail 1294 invoked by uid 38); 27 Sep 1999 21:01:27 -0000 Resent-Date: 27 Sep 1999 21:01:27 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: guylhem@terram.oeil.qc.ca Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:12:48 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: Greg Ferguson Cc: bf347@lafn.org, poet@linuxports.com, ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: Comments on web site. Message-ID: <19990927221248.B3781@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: <199909270628.AA03063@lafn.org> <9909270933.ZM13057@hoop.timonium.sgi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=4SFOXa2GPu3tIq4H; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <9909270933.ZM13057@hoop.timonium.sgi.com>; from Greg Ferguson on Mon, Sep 27, 1999 at 09:33:50AM -0400 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/621 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org --4SFOXa2GPu3tIq4H Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Sep 27, 1999 at 09:33:50AM -0400, Greg Ferguson wrote: > Agreed. We need to fix this. Info about the core team needs to be > shoved to the bottom. Agreed. Having email address available is important but it will be just as available as it is now if it is moved to the bottom. We could put some "LDP news" instead ? --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Save East Timor: http://altern.org/spoirier/timor.html http://www.pst-timor= .org --4SFOXa2GPu3tIq4H Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN+/Pv9+QeWug/qfFAQFudwP/cJ2ODncO3x2q4pJxEUZ9E7UemK2GqIQm AFkl9tHHr6589nmY4BffhoC3UMOrrNQNi/a+aDh9qYOKN1T08pU+RwUS58XJzesT zKF/WtJmWkjQAF85ZEpVE3fvDa7W8RsDTUONNKGJtt8cCQnNVrvUdIwDFsQETlNU eeCJXPUPWig= =j6J0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --4SFOXa2GPu3tIq4H-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 09:56:06 +1000 (EST) From: terry@albert Subject: subscribe terry@albert.animats.net To: ldp-private-request@lists.linuxdoc.org, ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org, ldp-announce@lists.linuxdoc.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII subscribe terry@albert.animats.net From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 10:05:03 +1000 (EST) From: terry@albert Subject: CONFIRM s082719030811000 To: ldp-private-request@lists.debian.org In-Reply-To: <19990828000308.11038.qmail@murphy.debian.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII -- terry@albert.animats.net, terry@linux.org.au From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 10:04:24 +1000 (EST) From: terry@albert Subject: CONFIRM s082719030510919 To: ldp-announce-request@lists.debian.org In-Reply-To: <19990828000306.10961.qmail@murphy.debian.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII -- terry@albert.animats.net, terry@linux.org.au From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 10:04:43 +1000 (EST) From: terry@albert Subject: CONFIRM s082719030710966 To: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org In-Reply-To: <19990828000308.11014.qmail@murphy.debian.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII -- terry@albert.animats.net, terry@linux.org.au From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 10:18:22 +1000 (EST) From: terry@albert Subject: Re: ldp-l needs to die To: pjones@metalab.unc.edu In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII On 27 Aug, Paul Jones wrote: > i agree. it's so simple to move a subscriber list; why isn't that done? Beats me. Tim is the list administrator. We agreed he would do it. This whole arrangement sounds really hap-hazard to me. regards Terry -- terry@albert.animats.net, terry@linux.org.au From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id JAA15206 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:07:15 +1000 Received: (qmail 11641 invoked by uid 38); 29 Aug 1999 23:07:07 -0000 Resent-Date: 29 Aug 1999 23:07:07 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: psj@mustec.eu.org Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 00:04:24 +0100 (GMT) From: P Jenner To: Paul Jones cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: LDP web site - suggestions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"dT10JD.A.k1C.b0by3"@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/286 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org On Sun, 29 Aug 1999, Paul Jones wrote: > i agree on the www.xxx.linuxdoc.org for the mirrors. it's worked well, > when the mirrors are kept up to date In the LDP mirrors section it appears that most countries have at least one available site which mirrors daily. That is impressive by any standards. Paul ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul S Jenner GNU/Linux Advocate E-mail: psj@mustec.eu.org WWW: http://www.mustec.eu.org/~psj/ UNSOLICITED COMMERCIAL E-MAIL IS NOT WELCOME AT THIS ADDRESS ----------------------------------------------------------------------- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id OAA07842 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:29:14 +1000 Received: (qmail 4980 invoked by uid 38); 1 Sep 1999 03:48:37 -0000 Resent-Date: 1 Sep 1999 03:48:37 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: dan@telent.net To: Paul Jones Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: mailing list archives References: From: Daniel Barlow Date: 01 Sep 1999 01:42:16 +0100 In-Reply-To: Paul Jones's message of "Tue, 31 Aug 1999 18:22:13 -0400 (EDT)" Message-ID: <87671vo42f.fsf@tninkpad.telent.net> Lines: 9 User-Agent: Gnus/5.070095 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.95) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: Daniel Barlow Resent-Message-ID: <0oQSFB.A.SNB.UIKz3@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/295 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Paul Jones writes: > i don't want to open a can of worms or a pandora's box, but wouldn't it be > a good idea to archive the three public ldp lists (discuss, docbook, and > announce) in a www accessible form? we could do that easily here using > monarc or any other opensource list archivers. You could? Yes please -dan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id IAA13200 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 08:57:29 +1000 Received: (qmail 4674 invoked by uid 38); 1 Sep 1999 22:57:15 -0000 Resent-Date: 1 Sep 1999 22:57:15 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: olea@hispalinux.es Sender: olea@mercurio.ran.es Message-ID: <37CBD268.1352579A@hispalinux.es> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:02:32 +0200 From: Ismael Olea Organization: Hispalinux X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [es] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.5-15smp i686) X-Accept-Language: es-ES, es, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Jones CC: Ismael Olea , Daniel Barlow , Jane Greenberg , Efron Miles , mdw@metalab.unc.edu, ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org, linux-central Subject: Re: LDP and Metadata References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/302 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Paul Jones escribió: > should we start another list for implementers of metadata or do the rest > of you want to hear all of this? These themes maybe noise for some people, I supose. We can talk about it on another list. If necessary I can open a LDP-R&D email list. > BTW Jane, Miles and I are part of the School of Information and Library > Science here at University of North Carolina so we have some special > reasons to be interested and to work on this. Me too: all of us need it :-D -- A.Ismael Olea González olea@iname.com 2:345/108.9@fidonet.org El mundo debe empezar a tener miedo a un planeta DEF -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id NAA21054 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 13:20:20 +1000 Received: (qmail 11879 invoked by uid 38); 3 Sep 1999 03:18:30 -0000 Resent-Date: 3 Sep 1999 03:18:29 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: mdw@bhikku.CS.Berkeley.EDU Message-Id: <199909030317.UAA25210@bhikku.CS.Berkeley.EDU> To: Paul Jones cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org, Jonathan Magid , Don Sizemore From: Matt Welsh Reply-To: Matt Welsh Subject: Re: LDP-MetaLab status In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 02 Sep 1999 21:32:47 EDT." Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 20:17:14 -0700 Sender: mdw@cs.berkeley.edu Resent-Message-ID: <-sWSnC.A.E5C.E4zz3@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/307 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Paul, All of this sounds fantastic. Note that I have no intention of doing anything to the Metalab pages unless absolutely necessary -- it looks like all of you have it covered! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id GAA25574 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 06:10:18 +1000 Received: (qmail 20955 invoked by uid 38); 3 Sep 1999 20:10:11 -0000 Resent-Date: 3 Sep 1999 20:10:11 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: guylhem@terram.oeil.qc.ca Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 16:07:48 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: Paul Jones Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org, Jonathan Magid , Don Sizemore Subject: Re: LDP-MetaLab status Message-ID: <19990903160748.A889@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=zhXaljGHf11kAtnf; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: ; from Paul Jones on Thu, Sep 02, 1999 at 09:32:47PM -0400 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/312 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org --zhXaljGHf11kAtnf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Sep 02, 1999 at 09:32:47PM -0400, Paul Jones wrote: > jonathan also installed CVS. we have no experience with CVS but we're > willing to learn. this is contingent on your and guylhem's decissions that > it would be useful to have CVS services on metalab. as i understand the > plan in place, there would be a sort of backoffice/QC/submissions host Not exactly, QC staff will be subscribed to ldp-submit. > created by VA. this is all fine and our having CVS up is not meant to Nothing is done so far, they are waiting for our decisions. I was wondering : is there still a strong demand for CVS? > preempt that effort. it's there if and when you wish to use it (with a > little tolerance for our learning curve) After some discussions by June, we agreed that email was our lowest common determinator. Therefore it should be kept as the basis for submitting new documents. The new submission system based on ldp-submit@lists.linuxdoc.org should accept any kind of entry as long as it can result in email. For exemple, the CVS or the FTP host system should send new versions of the documents to ldp-submit with cron or any other solution : FTP -> new or updated sgml -> cron -> mail to ldp-submit We could also add some kind of database with standard tags to keep a track of the submissions (maintainer, last date) thus removing more manual operations. FTP -> new or updated sgml -> cron -> mail to ldp-submit : -> database -> update linuxdoc.org "beta" section -> QC relecture -> Tim approval? -> move to linuxdoc main section -> announce document to ldp-announce for local LDP translaters -> announce document to freshmeat/slashdot Any feedback is appreciated, I think we can still improve this. --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Anywhere/Partout: guylhem-pager \@/ oeil.qc.ca --zhXaljGHf11kAtnf Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN8/WNN+QeWug/qfFAQGa6gP+L+N1LnGg+/mVoe/+y+9Cy8B9pA6LDJRE R9tmcmHsynZ2X3XWH7B4fJEt9QG/YOjSzRe6ifpWBG8fcz9F0j2bj78TYz6fVH75 MYGhRhzz3mYz4zyWIOU3z+G4i1eV2WFRaHYT0m3buPata3qL+TiIiW1NNBnPZ25h NIiGSSoOV14= =SXyZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --zhXaljGHf11kAtnf-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id MAA17161 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:17:31 +1000 Received: (qmail 6463 invoked by uid 38); 13 Sep 1999 02:17:24 -0000 Resent-Date: 13 Sep 1999 02:17:24 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: garym@maya.dyndns.org Sender: garym@mail.wccweb.com To: Paul Jones Cc: "Mr. Poet" , ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: If you are interested References: From: Gary Lawrence Murphy Date: 12 Sep 1999 22:15:46 -0400 Message-ID: Reply-To: Gary Lawrence Murphy Organization: TeleDynamics --- the Art of Being There X-Url: http://www.teledyn.com/ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/413 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org >>>>> "P" == Paul Jones writes: P> but problem: not openSource This may be a more difficult issue for the LDP than for other sites. My personal view is the observation that where open source scratches an itch, it will be superior software, but that it doesn't follow that any open source program is better for a purpose than commercial software. Maybe because I deal with commercial and non-profit clients who simply want the job done, but my opinion is the open/close source issue is totally irrevelant. It is a happy co-incidence (not really) that in most situations, open source is the better choice, but it is not a guarantee of success. If Infoseek is available, we should use it. Excite is fine (clunky to configure and gives many false positives) but there is not enough difference between any of these search engines that we should burden your filesystem with multiple indexes ;) Is it possible for us to get the docs for configuring the Infoseek indexer? Ideally, we would want one index for each language choice, where the search is 1 - go down the entire tree for this language 2 - then go down the entire tree for the next nearest language 3 - the next language and so on ... doing a depth first index such that common pages are found in the selected language first, but rare pages in exotic languages are still located no matter where we start. Of course, if there is a more elegant solution to that situation, I am all in favour of it ;) -- Gary Lawrence Murphy TeleDynamics Communications Inc Business Telecom Services : Internet Consulting : http://www.teledyn.com Linux Writers Workshop Archive: http://www.egroups.com/group/linux-hack/ "You don't play what you know; you play what you hear." -- (Miles Davis) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id PAA00718 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 15:46:20 +1000 Received: (qmail 24594 invoked by uid 38); 26 Sep 1999 05:46:13 -0000 Resent-Date: 26 Sep 1999 05:46:13 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: apharris@burrito.onshore.com Sender: apharris@burrito.onshore.com To: Paul Jones Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: metadata (was Re: Future goals for LDP, my wish list.) References: From: Adam Di Carlo Date: 26 Sep 1999 01:46:51 -0400 In-Reply-To: Paul Jones's message of "Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:13:00 -0400 (EDT)" Message-ID: Lines: 25 User-Agent: Gnus/5.070096 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.96) Emacs/20.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/570 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Paul Jones writes: > this could be the begining of an (XML perhaps) metadata object that > would describe the document and its status etc. believe it or not, > we're working on that very thing to present to you this week (the > hurricane slowed us a bit). we in this case is folks from UNC plus > Kendall and Ismael This is interesting. In Debian we need documentation metadata also for the purposes of providing a directory, on every users' box, of available documentation. Add it to a subject catalog and you have the makings of a very nice system. Right now we have the docreg format in doc-base, but it's pretty weak. I've been looking at using Dublin Core, either detached in a separate file, or embedded (in SGML or even HTML using META tags). Please show us your working materials if possible! Maybe we could get together on this... An early draft of my spec is at http://www.debian.org/~aph/debian-metadata.html/ -- .....Adam Di Carlo....adam@onShore.com..... -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 07:19:53 +1000 (EST) From: terry@albert Subject: Re: LDP and Metadata (also MetaLab) To: yan@storm.ca In-Reply-To: <199908310359.XAA20181@mail.storm.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII On 30 Aug, Yves Bellefeuille wrote: >> I killed ldp-l (which you probably know, bounce) after posting a >> message to it explaining how to subscribe to ldp-discuss et.al. > > I've tried several times to subscribe to ldp-discuss, but apparently > still haven't gotten it right. Can you help me? Thanks. Sure, the example I posted in the message would have worked: To: ldp-discuss-request@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: subscribe youremail@wherever.you.are Body: anything at all. regards Terry -- terry@albert.animats.net, terry@linux.org.au From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id WAA21455 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 22:29:31 +1000 Received: (qmail 31358 invoked by uid 38); 18 Sep 1999 12:29:24 -0000 Resent-Date: 18 Sep 1999 12:29:24 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 07:18:06 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim To: Yves Bellefeuille cc: LDP discuss Subject: Re: Are we good enough ? In-Reply-To: <199909180445.AAA15809@mail.storm.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/476 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Yves, > Frankly, I'm getting really annoyed that I've tried to update my Mini > How-To without success for over three months. This is rather a harsh tone, but I'm sure it's not your intent. The doc in question (Hard Disk Upgrade Mini How-To) is still sitting on my machine, and has not been updated. For this I apologize, but it was not intentional. The update was sent to me in text format, and not of the required format which is either sgml (preferred) or html. I sent an email stating this, but perhaps you never received it? > I realize we're all volunteers, but I think that keeping the > information up to date is much more important to the users (and the > authors) than making the LDP Web pages look nice or organizing logo > contests. I think we'd all agree with this point. > Please update my Mini How-To, and all the other How-Tos, and only then > start thinking about the new-and-improved LDP organization, quality > control, fancy Web pages, and so on. As soon as I get the sgml source or html version of the mini-HOWTO I'll gladly process it and get it uploaded. Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/HOWTO tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id WAA07693 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 22:18:37 +1000 Received: (qmail 11610 invoked by uid 38); 19 Sep 1999 12:18:12 -0000 Resent-Date: 19 Sep 1999 12:18:12 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 07:07:03 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim To: Yves Bellefeuille cc: LDP discuss Subject: Re: Are we good enough ? In-Reply-To: <199909190342.XAA14152@mail.storm.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/497 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > I sent the upgrade in both text and HTML format. I'm sending it again -- > for the fourth time. Again....I only received the doc in text format. I've apologized for any delays.....that's all I can do. Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/HOWTO tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id FAA09535 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 05:05:28 +1000 Received: (qmail 16281 invoked by uid 38); 19 Sep 1999 19:04:27 -0000 Resent-Date: 19 Sep 1999 19:04:27 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: guylhem@victis.oeil.qc.ca Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 20:54:05 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: Yves Bellefeuille Cc: Tim , LDP discuss Subject: Re: Are we good enough ? Message-ID: <19990919205405.A1209@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: <199909180445.AAA15809@mail.storm.ca> <199909190342.XAA14152@mail.storm.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="ikeVEW9yuYc//A+q"; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <199909190342.XAA14152@mail.storm.ca>; from Yves Bellefeuille on Sat, Sep 18, 1999 at 11:40:19PM -0400 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/507 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org --ikeVEW9yuYc//A+q Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Sep 18, 1999 at 11:40:19PM -0400, Yves Bellefeuille wrote: > It's the tone of someone who wrote to Tim, Greg and Guylhem and tried to= =20 > update his Mini How-To without success at least three times. I remember that story ; I asked you to post the sgml source to ldp-discuss. I'm subscribed to the list but I never see any message from you. > Correct, I never received your message. Still, I wrote to you at least=20 > three times about this; did all three replies get lost? I think because I didn't see any of these replies. --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Save East Timor: http://altern.org/spoirier/timor.html http://www.pst-timor= .org --ikeVEW9yuYc//A+q Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN+UxTd+QeWug/qfFAQF2ngP/WBe6vOhVhuvjAHMkGi4d5mQd35ahbZmW 5nfR+hAGtuSCA/SQE7We4PzTBg8YOjaXaWDTsNLq80Pd9Rv1LY6anxD57ypWBhjp 3N0plg4wbnOB7wac76yyosVFus4rt96kErPx01dKa2S8vaPYG+ok10ysyCa+QOzk lBtskfcaP0Y= =YLRZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ikeVEW9yuYc//A+q-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id MAA16241 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 12:51:37 +1000 Received: (qmail 20235 invoked by uid 38); 30 Aug 1999 02:47:42 -0000 Resent-Date: 30 Aug 1999 02:47:42 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 21:29:05 -0500 From: Tim Message-Id: <199908300229.VAA15853@wallybox.cei.net> To: ldp-announce@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Resent-Message-ID: <"hTnp_B.A.G7E.LDfy3"@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-announce@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1 X-Loop: ldp-announce@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-announce-request@lists.debian.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-announce-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id CAA22583 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 02:33:53 +1000 Received: (qmail 16835 invoked by uid 38); 18 Sep 1999 16:33:43 -0000 Resent-Date: 18 Sep 1999 16:33:43 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 11:22:15 -0500 From: Tim Message-Id: <199909181622.LAA17971@wallybox.cei.net> To: ldp-announce@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Document Updates Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-announce@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3 X-Loop: ldp-announce@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-announce-request@lists.debian.org New Updates Posted to http://wallybox.cei.net/~tjbynum/LDP/HOWTO/current-updates.html Sat Sep 18 11:20:03 CDT 1999 This message has been 'automagically' posted. Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/HOWTO tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-announce-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id NAA16414 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 13:27:47 +1000 Received: (qmail 481 invoked by uid 38); 30 Aug 1999 03:27:36 -0000 Resent-Date: 30 Aug 1999 03:27:36 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 22:09:08 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim To: ldp-private@lists.debian.org Subject: favor? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"7BRBOC.A.AH.nofy3"@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-private@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2 X-Loop: ldp-private@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-private-request@lists.debian.org Hello All, Could someone "tarball" the email that's been circulating off the ldp-* lists on lists.debian.org and send them my way if you've got the time. I'd appreciate it...... Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-private-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id XAA13289 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 23:24:50 +1000 Received: (qmail 32449 invoked by uid 38); 12 Sep 1999 13:24:47 -0000 Resent-Date: 12 Sep 1999 13:24:47 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 08:10:34 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim To: ldp-private@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Updates In-Reply-To: <19990911130139.B760@victis.oeil.qc.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-private@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3 X-Loop: ldp-private@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-private-request@lists.debian.org Hello, As usual, updated doc information can be seen at: http://wallybox.cei.net/~tjbynum/LDP/current-updates.html user: howto password:pass These docs are pending upload this evening (12 Septmeber 1999). Comments as always are welcome! Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/HOWTO tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-private-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id EAA14608 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 04:00:49 +1000 Received: (qmail 3259 invoked by uid 38); 12 Sep 1999 18:00:46 -0000 Resent-Date: 12 Sep 1999 18:00:46 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: poet@linuxports.com Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 11:07:56 -0700 (PDT) From: "Mr. Poet" X-Sender: jd@crazypenguins.commandprompt.com To: ldp-private@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Repost Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-private@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4 X-Loop: ldp-private@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-private-request@lists.debian.org Tim could you repost your ideas and such. I just subscribed to the list. Development in Real Time LinuxPorts - http://www.linuxports.com LDP - http://www.linuxdoc.org Consultants - VAR - Commercial - Networking - WWW/Intranet -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-private-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id IAA12885 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 08:51:13 +1000 Received: (qmail 12622 invoked by uid 38); 4 Sep 1999 22:49:25 -0000 Resent-Date: 4 Sep 1999 22:49:24 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: guylhem@victis.oeil.qc.ca Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 00:48:40 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: joseph@cheek.com, ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Should we split mini HOWTOs? Message-ID: <19990905004840.G976@victis.oeil.qc.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Bg2esWel0ueIH/G/"; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/331 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org --Bg2esWel0ueIH/G/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 02:00:59PM -0700, Joseph Cheek wrote: > this is an idea that i have already started with "kb articles" at the > linux knowledge base kbarticles site > http://linuxkb.cheek.com/kbarticles/. i only have a few, but i > already have people lined up and committed to writing more. Interesting experience. > i am willing to share what i have with the community [either > cobranding my web site or making the db available to others], in > return for the same sharing with me. These articles should be released under DGPL, then you could add a pointer to your site in a "non technical section". --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Anywhere/Partout: guylhem-pager \@/ oeil.qc.ca --Bg2esWel0ueIH/G/ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN9GhyN+QeWug/qfFAQGIdAP/W/4qJEsFKa40gX4DRsLuP8PLzsEBKHYT L0mpSkPQovFTxbEZFYMLfnYV8vrJD9KhMFD/I47Zk9j0AaP/HM2U04COoudDdHfN t8NnQxyna+dARiNMnhTrhForS+FVtN0H/qlNGdCOhu70OK5ODvELtO1/VtaHlpw+ fE4XDHRpW2c= =1LfE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Bg2esWel0ueIH/G/-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id GAA20256 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 06:35:23 +1000 Received: (qmail 10681 invoked by uid 38); 5 Sep 1999 20:35:16 -0000 Resent-Date: 5 Sep 1999 20:35:16 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: jim@jimpick.com Sender: jim@pepper.jimpick.com To: cognition@bigfoot.com Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: kinda off topic References: X-Url: http://www.jimpick.com/ From: Jim Pick Date: 05 Sep 1999 09:31:51 -0700 In-Reply-To: cogNiTioN's message of "Sat, 4 Sep 1999 09:51:47 +0000 (GMT)" Message-ID: <87hfl9tj48.fsf@pepper.jimpick.com> Lines: 19 User-Agent: Gnus/5.070095 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.95) XEmacs/20.4 (Emerald) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/342 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org cogNiTioN writes: > This is the format I use for most the lists I'm on, and I find it > agreable. But I'm a newbie, so and other ways to do it would also be > appreciated. You could also sort on the X-Loop: or X-Mailing-List: headers. > BTW: is there a difference between the ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org and > the ldp-discuss@lists.debain.org? Debian is hosting the lists, so it's both addresses go to the same place. The canonical name is lists.linuxdoc.org though. I wouldn't get into the habit of using the Debian address (someday, the lists might be hosted elsewhere). Cheers, - Jim -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id BAA22113 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 01:47:28 +1000 Received: (qmail 32187 invoked by uid 38); 21 Sep 1999 15:46:05 -0000 Resent-Date: 21 Sep 1999 15:46:05 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: jim@jimpick.com Sender: jim@pepper.jimpick.com To: cognition@bigfoot.com Cc: Guylhem Aznar , ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Updating Internic info for linuxdoc.org References: X-Url: http://www.jimpick.com/ From: Jim Pick Date: 21 Sep 1999 08:45:02 -0700 In-Reply-To: cogNiTioN's message of "Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:12:30 +0000 (GMT)" Message-ID: <87zoyg46bl.fsf@pepper.jimpick.com> Lines: 34 User-Agent: Gnus/5.070095 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.95) XEmacs/20.4 (Emerald) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/529 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org cogNiTioN writes: > On 20 Sep 1999, Jim Pick wrote: > > > > > Authorization > > 0a. (N)ew (M)odify (D)elete.........: M Name Registration > > 0b. Auth Scheme.....................: MAIL-FROM > > Can I suggest that MAIL-FROM authentication is NOT used. I had (and still > havn't got 'round to changing) MAIL-FROM on my domain, except the emil > address I gave was my redirectional address, and thus doesn't allow me to > send mail from it. This was a problem 'til I hacker around with sendmail > and pine and got my box to think it was bigfoot.com, and now NSI accepts > my emails. It would probably not be too impossible for someone else to > forge the mail headers in this way and take over the domain. Good idea. I've got PGP/GPG keys already, so I might as well use 'em. I'll try updating my contact record. I should change the address anyways, now that I've moved to Vancouver. > BTW: I'm assuming that whoever is incharge of the domains has seen the > security bulletins about the NSI freemail accounts? > Details on my web page: http://www.cognite.net/security/ > > Just thought I'd mention it. Yeah. I saw that on Slashdot. NSI is one of my least favourite companies. :-) Cheers, - Jim -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id LAA23612 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 11:34:22 +1000 Received: (qmail 32454 invoked by uid 38); 11 Sep 1999 01:34:14 -0000 Resent-Date: 11 Sep 1999 01:34:14 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: guylhem@terram.oeil.qc.ca Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 03:33:04 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: NAKANO Takeo Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: translation issue for web site Message-ID: <19990911033304.B27944@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: <199909102008.FAA07241@surf.ap.seikei.ac.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=jRHKVT23PllUwdXP; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <199909102008.FAA07241@surf.ap.seikei.ac.jp>; from NAKANO Takeo on Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 05:08:50AM +0900 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/379 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org --jRHKVT23PllUwdXP Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 05:08:50AM +0900, NAKANO Takeo wrote: > I'm sorry if I've been misunderstanding, but > www.XX.linuxdoc.org are not the "mirror sites" of > www.linuxdoc.org, but the aliases for currently > existing pages of local documentation projects? That's right. We're discussing the possibility of adding a mirror to each local LDP site. --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Anywhere/Partout: guylhem-pager \@/ oeil.qc.ca --jRHKVT23PllUwdXP Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN9mxUN+QeWug/qfFAQFvAAP9Grru8rBO8hmjvjSzC+pahugqnivrMPi/ mCtPPoQlA3r9qaNykP5dGWqilyFeTyfYb8EG98Fe7O+UCaGVROtstmSpQLEEZmOP IJHs/lpo/MlwWRFVSLfxUGi5uWV5Hd5f/OoeOs09SKKeEEMRIlF9QCyePmRAs5GI wHChcmarrJc= =b87K -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --jRHKVT23PllUwdXP-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id UAA26126 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:59:56 +1000 Received: (qmail 17278 invoked by uid 38); 11 Sep 1999 10:59:46 -0000 Resent-Date: 11 Sep 1999 10:59:46 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: Hugo.van.der.Kooij@caiw.nl Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 12:59:25 +0200 (CEST) From: Hugo van der Kooij X-Sender: hvdkooij@bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org To: NAKANO Takeo cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: translation issue for web site In-Reply-To: <199909110930.SAA09298@surf.ap.seikei.ac.jp> Message-ID: X-URL: http://www.caiw.nl/~hvdkooij/ X-Loop: Hugo.van.der.Kooij@caiw.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/387 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org On Sat, 11 Sep 1999, NAKANO Takeo wrote: > In article > Hugo.van.der.Kooij@caiw.nl writes: > > > However in such a case the webmaster should redirect to the proper place. > > > > This would mean that sites having say 10 hits per month on a certain > > language that takes up multi megabytes of files would not have to carry > > along a lot of slack. > > Agree. FYI, current ja site has about 50 Mbytes. Assuming the > other local ldps also have comparable bytes, it's not good in > C/P mirroring them all over the world. We already have > compressed translations in every FTP mirrors. It should be > enough for most people, if he/she has WWW access to original > sites with FTP access to the nearest mirror. > > > The use of proper redirection should be mandatory in case a certain > > language is not mirrored. > [snip] > > So the webmaster decides to redirect hits to http://www.nl.linux.org/ru/ > > to http://www.ru.linux.org/ru/ > > If we don't mirror but redirect, it's not so valuable to > prepare http://www.nl.linuxdoc.org/ja/ as URI, because > http://www.ja.linuxdoc.org is much more easy to remember :-) > Rather, we should concentrate on preparing good link pages > in each local ldps? The proposal with http://www.XX.linuxdoc.org/YY/ will allow a very flexible setup where each site can decide to add or remove certain languages from the site based on demand. This way http://www.linuxdoc.org/index.html can point to /nl/index.html for the Dutch stuff. And any site mirroring from www.linuxdoc.org will have the same local reference. Making mirroring quite easy. I guess Belgium and South Africa are the two most likely site to mirror it. And the other way around it's likely that we may add Germand and French to the Dutch server. But it could very well be that there is demand for the Turkish pages as well. Hugo. -- Hugo van der Kooij; Oranje Nassaustraat 16; 3155 VJ Maasland hvdkooij@caiw.nl http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~hvdkooij/ -------------------------------------------------------------- Use of any of my email addresses for unsollicited (commercial) email is a clear intrusion of my privacy and illegal! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id WAA13106 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 22:44:34 +1000 Received: (qmail 15451 invoked by uid 38); 12 Sep 1999 12:44:11 -0000 Resent-Date: 12 Sep 1999 12:44:11 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: guylhem@terram.oeil.qc.ca Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 12:58:11 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: NAKANO Takeo Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: translation issue for web site Message-ID: <19990911125811.A760@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: <19990911033304.B27944@victis.oeil.qc.ca> <199909110930.SAA09298@surf.ap.seikei.ac.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=IS0zKkzwUGydFO0o; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <199909110930.SAA09298@surf.ap.seikei.ac.jp>; from NAKANO Takeo on Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 06:30:25PM +0900 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <_y0VI.A.7wD.ZA623@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/394 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org --IS0zKkzwUGydFO0o Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 06:30:25PM +0900, NAKANO Takeo wrote: > OK, so you mean for example, let www.ja.linuxdoc.org/us/ > point the original LDP site, right? :-)=20 I don't think we *need* this, but I'm open to any discussion. This option is by far better than hosting a whole copy of each local LDP anywhere. It should be done only where it is possible and with the languages some local LDP needs. Maybe it could be indicated with little flags on the first page ? For ex., if www.ja.linuxdoc.org mirrors us, id and es pages, you would add three little flags on the first page, and a 'others' one which would open a list of local LDPs > Rather, we should concentrate on preparing good link pages > in each local ldps? I will post a list of the local LDPs soon (people are still responding to the original message) --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Anywhere/Partout: guylhem-pager \@/ oeil.qc.ca --IS0zKkzwUGydFO0o Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN9o1w9+QeWug/qfFAQGKbgP8CvVVwSPCZeJYB7yoMeZN0aZklHdMPHoH aA6dk3LZ1Lx138FP1PvydYgxHHKuPfjb+rFJ/D5fURPOkm0Smmk/GUqhmkoKggs3 eKg3gO1BupBd2riYVxZ5wrKrGsHgjHEkl1JpReIqV6Z3/JCoFfPH5vn2U5nepJvu p1qZkucCaU0= =EiGN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --IS0zKkzwUGydFO0o-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:41 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id DAA14478 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 03:35:01 +1000 Received: (qmail 17641 invoked by uid 38); 12 Sep 1999 17:34:54 -0000 Resent-Date: 12 Sep 1999 17:34:54 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: psj@mustec.eu.org Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 18:28:41 +0100 (GMT) From: P Jenner To: NAKANO Takeo cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: translation issue for web site In-Reply-To: <199909121641.BAA13844@surf.ap.seikei.ac.jp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <78tjEB.A.gTE.-Q-23@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/399 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org On Mon, 13 Sep 1999, NAKANO Takeo wrote: > How about separating the mirroring function from www.XX.linuxdoc.org? Because that is the established way of mirroring which works very well with other projects (eg. linux kernel (ftp.XX.kernel.org) and Debian (www.XX.debian.org)). > Instead, we can use mirror.XX.linuxdoc.org Confusing for most folks who like to prepend web resources with www. and ftp resources with ftp. It is a bad idea to move away from accepted practice - it is accepted practice for a reason. > Using this rule, we can use XX as location info (e.g. country > code such as "us" or "jp") and YY as language info ("en" or "ja"), > and user easily can determine where they should go. To re-iterate, this is exactly what is proposed with www.XX.linuxdoc.org/YY/ > Another (and maybe more important) point: I don't think all the local > ldp projects afford to mirror, or even if they do, there must be some > cases that they already have mirror sites in their country maintained > by another group (See http://www.linuxdoc.org/mirrors.html. The latter > is the case for us in Japan). This is not really the issue we are debating (although it is related). We are currently looking at a mirroring scheme - not a way for local translators to be accessed. It will mostly be the case that a local translation site is not the official mirror as you have pointed out above. The better scheme which we debate is that official mirrors are www.XX.linuxdoc.org and translators need not maintain any independent web site put post translations to www.linuxdoc.org/YY/ for mirroring around the world. Paul ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul S Jenner GNU/Linux Advocate E-mail: psj@mustec.eu.org WWW: http://www.mustec.eu.org/~psj/ UNSOLICITED COMMERCIAL E-MAIL IS NOT WELCOME AT THIS ADDRESS ----------------------------------------------------------------------- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id EAA14713 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 04:24:21 +1000 Received: (qmail 9245 invoked by uid 38); 12 Sep 1999 18:24:13 -0000 Resent-Date: 12 Sep 1999 18:24:13 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: guylhem@victis.oeil.qc.ca Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:11:09 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: Jeffrey Greer Cc: LDP discuss Subject: Re: what is wrong with LDP Message-ID: <19990912151109.I1112@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: <37DB26F5.88D75610@showmethenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=TKDEsImF70pdVIl+; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <37DB26F5.88D75610@showmethenet.com>; from Jeffrey Greer on Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 11:07:17PM -0500 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/400 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org --TKDEsImF70pdVIl+ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 11:07:17PM -0500, Jeffrey Greer wrote: > I entered this into LDP's search "hardware compatibility" and nothing > relevent came up. Either LDP's search engine is a joke or there > really isn't a hardware compatibility list in LDP. Either case is > pretty sad. Linux developers need to work on documentation. There > should be a single list for pc hardware compatibility The search engine is under work. Only the 1st and 2nd level pages have been indexed. The HOWTOs will be indexed soon. --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Anywhere/Partout: guylhem-pager \@/ oeil.qc.ca --TKDEsImF70pdVIl+ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN9umbd+QeWug/qfFAQGK6gP/fInpB6/pqbZx5oIYSlF05FxcpSNViR1v k/k37gMQOJz5jppQE2cWuuWw5QeWg3tKBGleW1vxTa2jtEjmdRqs7m5JT2ntVXMT FGhVXXpU31cB5Nsdjr3uc8JrZDIXU2oKuWES3tbVAO2OExB0bCkSPYUV82ZSdFeT 9fj/o5s0FCs= =PGKl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --TKDEsImF70pdVIl+-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id KAA16561 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:17:06 +1000 Received: (qmail 16787 invoked by uid 38); 13 Sep 1999 00:15:42 -0000 Resent-Date: 13 Sep 1999 00:15:42 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: psj@mustec.eu.org Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:09:30 +0100 (GMT) From: P Jenner To: Gary Lawrence Murphy cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: If you are interested In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/404 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org On 12 Sep 1999, Gary Lawrence Murphy wrote: > Ok, it was a general search, but does it really make sense to to > international searching without asking? Maybe but many users will be using different languages - to default to US English is probably a bad thing. I would also think that most users could ignore translations they do not require. > As much as I dislike Excite, one feature it has which I much prefer to > rows of penguins is the "more like this" search. Is Excite Free Software? Paul ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul S Jenner GNU/Linux Advocate E-mail: psj@mustec.eu.org WWW: http://www.mustec.eu.org/~psj/ UNSOLICITED COMMERCIAL E-MAIL IS NOT WELCOME AT THIS ADDRESS ----------------------------------------------------------------------- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id KAA16720 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:45:40 +1000 Received: (qmail 13258 invoked by uid 38); 13 Sep 1999 00:38:18 -0000 Resent-Date: 13 Sep 1999 00:38:17 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: psj@mustec.eu.org Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:31:16 +0100 (GMT) From: P Jenner To: Gary Lawrence Murphy cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: linuxdoc search & languages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <0q9-vC.A.eOD.4dE33@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/408 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org On 12 Sep 1999, Gary Lawrence Murphy wrote: > Based on pure numbers in Internet traffic, having a select box that > defaults to english (with the option to choose another) is not a bad > idea. True enough. I thought you were to recommend an English only search but this is a good idea. It could do with an "all languages box" as well though as doc may exsit for something within one translation and not another. > Anyway, it's just my opinion ;) The only real way to tell is to try it > out on the public and see what they do with it. I for one agree and further both you and I are that public so lets keep the comments coming :-) Paul ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul S Jenner GNU/Linux Advocate E-mail: psj@mustec.eu.org WWW: http://www.mustec.eu.org/~psj/ UNSOLICITED COMMERCIAL E-MAIL IS NOT WELCOME AT THIS ADDRESS ----------------------------------------------------------------------- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id AAA20469 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:11:59 +1000 Received: (qmail 1021 invoked by uid 38); 13 Sep 1999 13:58:17 -0000 Resent-Date: 13 Sep 1999 13:58:17 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: psj@mustec.eu.org Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:51:32 +0100 (GMT) From: P Jenner To: Gary Lawrence Murphy cc: Paul Jones , "Mr. Poet" , ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: If you are interested In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/423 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org On 12 Sep 1999, Gary Lawrence Murphy wrote: > This may be a more difficult issue for the LDP than for other sites. > My personal view is the observation that where open source scratches > an itch, it will be superior software, but that it doesn't follow that > any open source program is better for a purpose than commercial software. Again I believe that the LDP has a duty to use only Free Software. If it does not then it loses something of its standing as a champion of that cause. Paul ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul S Jenner GNU/Linux Advocate E-mail: psj@mustec.eu.org WWW: http://www.mustec.eu.org/~psj/ UNSOLICITED COMMERCIAL E-MAIL IS NOT WELCOME AT THIS ADDRESS ----------------------------------------------------------------------- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id UAA26247 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:15:37 +1000 Received: (qmail 15274 invoked by uid 38); 14 Sep 1999 10:14:23 -0000 Resent-Date: 14 Sep 1999 10:14:23 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: olea@tsai.es Message-ID: <37DE20E9.3E616EF6@tsai.es> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:18:17 +0200 From: Ismael Olea X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [es] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: es-ES,es,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gary Lawrence Murphy CC: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: LDP bug-tracker References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Infomail-Id: 937303940.700D010A81106E.43940 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/438 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by albert.animats.net id UAA26247 Gary Lawrence Murphy escribió: > I'm interested in any others if there are open source problem trackers, > and especially any based on Postgres (bugzilla is tied to the non-OS > MySQL) There is a GPL version of MySQL. -- Ismael Olea TSAI, Área Sistemas, Unix tlf. 91-7548748 olea@tsai.es olea@iname.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id UAA26351 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:38:39 +1000 Received: (qmail 21904 invoked by uid 38); 14 Sep 1999 10:19:21 -0000 Resent-Date: 14 Sep 1999 10:19:21 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: olea@tsai.es Message-ID: <37DE21ED.60AF8E8D@tsai.es> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:22:37 +0200 From: Ismael Olea X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [es] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: es-ES,es,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gary Lawrence Murphy CC: P Jenner , ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: linuxdoc search & languages References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Infomail-Id: 937304200.02D7010A81106E.44200 Resent-Message-ID: <33RCMD.A.7VF.oEi33@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/439 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by albert.animats.net id UAA26351 Gary Lawrence Murphy escribió: If you want text searching I think that each LDP-* must setup it's own searcher. It's more easy to create and develop. > The Thunderstone Webinator is very good at this (www.thunderstone.com) > and is free for non-commercial uses (I think). It can also be maintained > via a web interface. Isearch has a BSD like license. -- Ismael Olea TSAI, Área Sistemas, Unix tlf. 91-7548748 olea@tsai.es olea@iname.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199] (may be forged)) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id MAA04962 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:42:05 +1000 Received: (qmail 21147 invoked by uid 38); 16 Sep 1999 02:38:31 -0000 Resent-Date: 16 Sep 1999 02:38:31 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: poet@linuxports.com Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 19:45:55 -0700 (PDT) From: "Mr. Poet" X-Sender: jd@crazypenguins.commandprompt.com To: Gary Lawrence Murphy cc: Ismael Olea , ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org, ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org, recipient list not shown: ; Subject: Re: LDP bug-tracker In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/450 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org We could use Postgres LinuxPorts - http://www.linuxports.com LDP - http://www.linuxdoc.org On 15 Sep 1999, Gary Lawrence Murphy wrote: > >>>>> "I" == Ismael Olea writes: > > I> Gary Lawrence Murphy escribió: > > >> I'm interested in any others if there are open source problem > >> trackers, and especially any based on Postgres (bugzilla is > >> tied to the non-OS MySQL) > > I> There is a GPL version of MySQL. > > Not according to the MySQL website --- only old and obsolete versions > are under GPL > > >From http://www.tcx.se/Manual_chapter/manual_Licensing_and_Support.html > > 3.2.1 Possible future copyright changes > > We may choose to distribute older versions of MySQL with the GPL in > the future. However, these versions will be identified as GNU > MySQL. Also, all copyright notices in the relevant files will be > changed to the GPL. > > As it stands right now, only MySQL_GPL 3.20.32a is available, which > means it is up to the community to reverse engineer all the bug fixes > employed since then, and tcx is not going to provide any tech support; > their resources are going only into their commercial release --- at > least Netscape is employing full-time resources to manage and develop > Mozilla. > > Although it technically is GPL, this is not what I would call GPL --- > someday, if the community takes 3.20.32a, figures out how to fix it > and works it into something superior to or at least comparable to the > mainstream release, but for right now, they are basically giving us > their garbage so they won't be responsible to provide support for code > to their paying customers. If you ask me, the whole deal smells kind > of funny. > > -- > Gary Lawrence Murphy TeleDynamics Communications Inc > Business Telecom Services : Internet Consulting : http://www.teledyn.com > Linux Writers Workshop Archive: http://www.egroups.com/group/linux-hack/ > "You don't play what you know; you play what you hear." -- (Miles Davis) > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id XAA14869 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 23:35:43 +1000 Received: (qmail 20222 invoked by uid 38); 17 Sep 1999 13:35:06 -0000 Resent-Date: 17 Sep 1999 13:35:05 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: olea@tsai.es Message-ID: <37E23A8E.A9A97601@tsai.es> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:56:46 +0200 From: Ismael Olea X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [es] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: es-ES,es,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gary Lawrence Murphy CC: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org, Francisco Jose Montilla Subject: Re: LDP bug-tracker References: <37DE20A1.A71DCD78@tsai.es> <37E11810.33499697@tsai.es> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Infomail-Id: 937572651.2D82010A81106E.12651 Resent-Message-ID: <6qbUEC.A.u7E.JOk43@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/471 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by albert.animats.net id XAA14869 Gary Lawrence Murphy escribió: > I> Did anybody visit the Insflug URL? > > I visited the site, but could not find the source code to their > tracker. Babelfish could not translate the site for me because > of their use of CSS files. > > The demonstration of it looks nice, but I couldn't understand > enough to know if it would be useful. Ok. I wrote to the administer (Francisco) introducing you. I hope he could helps you. -- Ismael Olea TSAI, Área Sistemas, Unix tlf. 91-7548748 olea@tsai.es olea@iname.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id AAA22119 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 00:51:42 +1000 Received: (qmail 29514 invoked by uid 38); 18 Sep 1999 14:51:35 -0000 Resent-Date: 18 Sep 1999 14:51:35 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: poet@linuxports.com Message-Id: <199909181458.HAA06554@crazypenguins.commandprompt.com> From: "{poet}" Organization: CommandPrompt Software To: Gary Lawrence Murphy Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 07:43:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: But where do we stand on OPL? Reply-to: poet@linuxports.com CC: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/485 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Hello, You CAN restrict people. You just can't CHARGE people. Personally I like the OPL. Poet Date forwarded: 18 Sep 1999 13:33:09 -0000 To: "Mr. Poet" Copies to: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Subject: But where do we stand on OPL? From: Gary Lawrence Murphy Date sent: 18 Sep 1999 09:32:14 -0400 Send reply to: Gary Lawrence Murphy Organization: TeleDynamics --- the Art of Being There Forwarded by: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org > > I had an email from Alessandro this morning. His understanding is that > a document published under the OPL (esp OPL with the option to reserve > book printing rights) prevents a document from being included in the > LDP. Is this true? What is the stance of the LDP on the open publishing > licence? > > While I can agree with people like Richard Stallman that the very best > work can only come out of GPL-style restrictions, it is also true that > some wonderful software is less restrictive. For example, the BSD > licences and other have no restrictions against arbitrary restrictions > in the licence, and even the Linux kernel allows for (but does not > distribute) non-GPL modules. > > If we take a 100%-free stance as dogma, we miss an opportunity to have > the LDP include professionally edited and corporately sponsored > documents; allowing for some "mostly free" content might require the > multi-tier classification I wrote about before, but provides a means > for the LDP to leverage rather than compete with publishers like ORA, > IDG and MCP (who, on the other hand, freely leverage the LDP to pad > thier books) > > -- > Gary Lawrence Murphy TeleDynamics Communications Inc > Business Telecom Services : Internet Consulting : http://www.teledyn.com > Linux Writers Workshop Archive: http://www.egroups.com/group/linux-hack/ > "You don't play what you know; you play what you hear." -- (Miles Davis) > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org LinuxPorts - http://www.linuxports.com LDP - http://www.linuxdoc.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id DAA09198 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 03:57:45 +1000 Received: (qmail 11309 invoked by uid 38); 19 Sep 1999 17:52:28 -0000 Resent-Date: 19 Sep 1999 17:52:28 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: poet@linuxports.com Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 10:59:47 -0700 (PDT) From: "Mr. Poet" X-Sender: jd@crazypenguins.commandprompt.com To: Gary Lawrence Murphy cc: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org, recipient list not shown: ; Subject: Re: But where do we stand on OPL? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/504 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org >From the Document Conventions: LDP documents must be freely redistributable without fees paid to the authors. It is not required that the text be modifiable, but it is encouraged. You can come up with your own license terms that satisfy this constraint, or you can use a previously prepared license. The LDP provides a boilerplate license that you can use, some people like to use the GPL, and others write their own. The copyright for each manual should be in the name(s) of the contributing author(s) for the project. ``The Linux Documentation Project'' isn't a formal entity and shouldn't be used to copyright the docs. LinuxPorts - http://www.linuxports.com LDP - http://www.linuxdoc.org On 19 Sep 1999, Gary Lawrence Murphy wrote: > >>>>> "L" == Lars Wirzenius writes: > > L> Gary Lawrence Murphy : > >> What is the stance of the LDP on the open publishing licence? > > L> Yet another licensing debate... > L> If it can't be distributed freely, on whatever medium, it > L> doesn't belong in the LDP. That is not negotiable. > > Last year, all of the publishers would have said OPL was absurd and > was not negotiable, and Tim's editorial on ora.com he is quite firm in > his view of the business model for free docs being pure madness. It's > unfortunate that they are willing to go half way, while we are not > willing to accomodate them, but it is not the end of the world. > > It's not unprecidented. The FSF has the same rule on all software and > docs, and it does quite well without restricted contributions. Since > this appears to be a sensitive issue, I won't trouble you about it. > > I am a little confused, though. > > On this one point of distribution, LDP has a GPL-like policy, but in a > previous email Poet states > > p> You CAN restrict people. You just can't CHARGE people. > > and in another, Guylhem writes > > g> We asked RMS to write a DGPL, it will be ready in a near > g> future. > > g> I think we should prefer it to any other license. > > g> However, each author would be free to choose *any* other license, > g> we could just recommand DGPL. > > (emphasis is mine) > > Both these statements imply allowing arbitrary restrictions on > authorship, ownership, editorial changes or whatever, and both are > consistent with an OPL-B licence; both also allow licences which > _are_ in violation of a GPL-like policy and would likely be nixed by > RMS. I don't mean to be a pest, I just want to understand the LDP > policy so I don't get caught making promises I can't keep. Where _do_ > we draw the line? > > -- > Gary Lawrence Murphy TeleDynamics Communications Inc > Business Telecom Services : Internet Consulting : http://www.teledyn.com > Linux Writers Workshop Archive: http://www.egroups.com/group/linux-hack/ > "You don't play what you know; you play what you hear." -- (Miles Davis) > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from cs.ida.org (cs.ida.org [129.246.101.11]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id IAA04751 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 08:25:42 +1000 Received: from fricka.csed.ida.org (fricka.csed.ida.org [129.246.80.120]) by cs.ida.org (Pro-8.9.3/Pro-8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA06522; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:23:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aphrodite.csed.ida.org by fricka.csed.ida.org (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id SAA06402; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:23:22 -0400 Received: (from wheeler@localhost) by aphrodite.csed.ida.org (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) id SAA26437; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:23:20 -0400 (EDT) From: wheeler@ida.org (David Wheeler) Message-Id: <990923182319.ZM26435@aphrodite.csed.ida.org> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:23:19 -0400 In-Reply-To: Gary Lawrence Murphy "Re: [off topic] Re: Licensing issues" (Sep 22, 1:51am) References: <199909202101.HAA16947@albert.animats.net> <19990921102713.C17878@albert.animats.net> <19990922085238.B24076@albert.animats.net> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (5.0.0 30July97) To: Gary Lawrence Murphy , Terry Dawson , ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: [off topic] Re: Licensing issues MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii First, a few quick comments. I _do_ believe that the LDP license issue _has_ to be fixed. Some of the documents have pseudo-licenses that make it impossible to keep them up-to-date. Currently, if an author disappears for some doc, then the doc CANNOT be maintained legally by anyone else. That's got to be fixed for the LDP to be viable long-term. On Sep 22, 1:51am, Gary Lawrence Murphy wrote: > Subject: Re: [off topic] Re: Licensing issues >>>>>>>> "T" == Terry Dawson writes: >>>If software is derived from GPL software, that software must be GPL >>>and while it can be more free, it cannot be less free. I'm not a lawyer. I don't even play one on TV. Nevertheless, while you can certainly find murky areas of law, in general copyright issues are MUCH CLEARER for documents than they are for software. After all, copyright was specifically written with documents in mind, and software was hacked into the copyright laws much later. For the United States, copyright law is governed by title 17 of the U.S. code. See http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/index.html. You can also find some info at ttp://lcweb.loc.gov/copyright. Most other countries' laws are similar. Take a peek at them; they're not that hard to read & may help any discussion. >>>If, on the other hand, research for a book is based on LDP documents >>>and makes copious quotes, correcting commentary and grammar, and then >>>making logical references to it to support a new point not found in >>>the original (ie function call equivalents, corrected functional >>>definitions, and new higher-level functions), then, by the GPL, >>>can you sell that book? See the copyright law entries under "Fair Use" (section 107). It would depend on what you did. If you're just quoting a document while making some other point, then you can do whatever you like with the result. If you just quote the entire book and claim it's a different work, forget it. >>>If a study course (an application) is based on a document, and the >>>professor likewise corrects and extends the material, can you charge a fee >>>for that course under the GPL? The GPL permits reasonable copying fees, as long as you make the electronic version available. If by "study course" you mean a typical university class, then naturally you can charge for the course. Universities generally charge separately for the books & the class. You can charge for the privilege of attending the lecture, interacting with the class, receiving credit, etc. No one would confuse the class with the book. >>>If Eric Raymond speaks to a room full of engineers using modified >>>ideas of the GPL licenced documents, can he charge for the appearance? Of course. A copyright only protects a particular expression of an idea. You can't copyright the idea itself. And you can charge whatever you want, and you can say what you like (free speech). >>>Can he charge for a book containing his talk? Yes, if the form of expression is significantly different. >>>The whole notion of >>>"derived/extended" and mere use (ie LGPL) in natural language is very, >>>very murky. Particular cases may be murky, but the body of law and court cases involved here are fairly extensive. >>>What if someone were to take an LDP document and transform it into a >>>politically slanted work in conflict with the aims of the LDP, say, >>>for example, to change it to highlight the shortcomings of some core >>>Linux system such as KPPP? It could become a Microsoft sales tool. >>>Because software has no 'implied' meanings or grades of truth, such a >>>derived work could be attributed to the LDP under the GPL. The copyright law forbids people to write something and claim that someone else said it. See US Code, Title 17, section 106A. -- --- David A. Wheeler wheeler@ida.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id IAA04760 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 08:26:31 +1000 Received: (qmail 29035 invoked by uid 38); 23 Sep 1999 22:26:22 -0000 Resent-Date: 23 Sep 1999 22:26:22 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: wheeler@ida.org From: wheeler@ida.org (David Wheeler) Message-Id: <990923182319.ZM26435@aphrodite.csed.ida.org> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:23:19 -0400 In-Reply-To: Gary Lawrence Murphy "Re: [off topic] Re: Licensing issues" (Sep 22, 1:51am) References: <199909202101.HAA16947@albert.animats.net> <19990921102713.C17878@albert.animats.net> <19990922085238.B24076@albert.animats.net> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (5.0.0 30July97) To: Gary Lawrence Murphy , Terry Dawson , ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: [off topic] Re: Licensing issues MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/543 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org First, a few quick comments. I _do_ believe that the LDP license issue _has_ to be fixed. Some of the documents have pseudo-licenses that make it impossible to keep them up-to-date. Currently, if an author disappears for some doc, then the doc CANNOT be maintained legally by anyone else. That's got to be fixed for the LDP to be viable long-term. On Sep 22, 1:51am, Gary Lawrence Murphy wrote: > Subject: Re: [off topic] Re: Licensing issues >>>>>>>> "T" == Terry Dawson writes: >>>If software is derived from GPL software, that software must be GPL >>>and while it can be more free, it cannot be less free. I'm not a lawyer. I don't even play one on TV. Nevertheless, while you can certainly find murky areas of law, in general copyright issues are MUCH CLEARER for documents than they are for software. After all, copyright was specifically written with documents in mind, and software was hacked into the copyright laws much later. For the United States, copyright law is governed by title 17 of the U.S. code. See http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/index.html. You can also find some info at ttp://lcweb.loc.gov/copyright. Most other countries' laws are similar. Take a peek at them; they're not that hard to read & may help any discussion. >>>If, on the other hand, research for a book is based on LDP documents >>>and makes copious quotes, correcting commentary and grammar, and then >>>making logical references to it to support a new point not found in >>>the original (ie function call equivalents, corrected functional >>>definitions, and new higher-level functions), then, by the GPL, >>>can you sell that book? See the copyright law entries under "Fair Use" (section 107). It would depend on what you did. If you're just quoting a document while making some other point, then you can do whatever you like with the result. If you just quote the entire book and claim it's a different work, forget it. >>>If a study course (an application) is based on a document, and the >>>professor likewise corrects and extends the material, can you charge a fee >>>for that course under the GPL? The GPL permits reasonable copying fees, as long as you make the electronic version available. If by "study course" you mean a typical university class, then naturally you can charge for the course. Universities generally charge separately for the books & the class. You can charge for the privilege of attending the lecture, interacting with the class, receiving credit, etc. No one would confuse the class with the book. >>>If Eric Raymond speaks to a room full of engineers using modified >>>ideas of the GPL licenced documents, can he charge for the appearance? Of course. A copyright only protects a particular expression of an idea. You can't copyright the idea itself. And you can charge whatever you want, and you can say what you like (free speech). >>>Can he charge for a book containing his talk? Yes, if the form of expression is significantly different. >>>The whole notion of >>>"derived/extended" and mere use (ie LGPL) in natural language is very, >>>very murky. Particular cases may be murky, but the body of law and court cases involved here are fairly extensive. >>>What if someone were to take an LDP document and transform it into a >>>politically slanted work in conflict with the aims of the LDP, say, >>>for example, to change it to highlight the shortcomings of some core >>>Linux system such as KPPP? It could become a Microsoft sales tool. >>>Because software has no 'implied' meanings or grades of truth, such a >>>derived work could be attributed to the LDP under the GPL. The copyright law forbids people to write something and claim that someone else said it. See US Code, Title 17, section 106A. -- --- David A. Wheeler wheeler@ida.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id PAA06945 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 15:49:22 +1000 Received: (qmail 27966 invoked by uid 38); 24 Sep 1999 05:49:14 -0000 Resent-Date: 24 Sep 1999 05:49:14 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: bf347@lafn.org Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 22:45:27 -0700 Message-Id: <199909240545.AA00819@lafn.org> From: bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer) To: garym@canada.com Subject: Scope of LDP Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Reply-To: bf347@lafn.org Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/547 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org >I do. I just spent 4 hours trying to find the answer to a simple >question. I want to do what any small office does and integrate my >dialup, fax and voicemail. So what modem, produced since 1995, will >work with mgetty+fax+voice? The docs tell me to buy a ZyXEL modem >that has been out of production for years and now sells on eBay for >$10, and they leave off on USR modems at the 28.8k's (long snip) >-- >Gary Lawrence Murphy TeleDynamics Communications Inc What doc is this? The HOWTOs only mention that a control program exists for ZyXEL but don't suggest that you use it. I think you are refering to the mgetty documentation that comes with the mgetty program. It needs revision. Is LDP responsible for the documentation of the thousands of different programs used with Linux? Perhaps we are (or should be). To do this we will need a team of hundreds of people to track this. We could establish guidelines for the UI of "help" in interactive programs, integrate the manuals with the info system, etc. For cases where a program is being maintained, but the documentation isn't, we would need to find someone who can assist the author in maintaining both the code and the docs, since it's better to have someone familiar with the code write the docs. I've included statements regarding such a broader scope in an unfinished draft of a proposed revision to the LDP Mainifesto. David Lawyer -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id OAA17829 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:47:31 +1000 Received: (qmail 362 invoked by uid 38); 13 Sep 1999 04:47:24 -0000 Resent-Date: 13 Sep 1999 04:47:24 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: howto@wallybox.cei.net Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 23:33:27 -0500 (CDT) From: "HOWTO \(from metalab\)" To: diggorym@worldnet.att.net cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Volunteering In-Reply-To: <37D72093.A190D384@worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/416 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Matt, > Hello--I would like to volunteer. My background is not in coding but in > protein chemistry; perhaps I could do some technical writing of one sort > or another? Or less glamorous tasks--no problem. My ultimate goal would > be to assist the transfer of old computers with the Linux operating > system on them to developing, poor nations at little or no cost. > Perhaps I could--if there is interest--begin to set up portions of the > project; I am sure others are way ahead of me, actually. Could I be put > in touch with any people involved in such an effort? I have injured my > back and receive a small income, so temporarily I would be grateful to > contribute in any way possible for free. We are currently in the midst of some re-structuring and putting together a QC (Quality Control) Team. Perhaps you would find this of interest. There is an email list that has been created and I would suggest that you join it. * Want to help out? Subscribe to ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org. All you have to do is send an email to ldp-discuss-request@linuxdoc.org with the word Subscribe in the body of the message. I will cc the list, but please subscribe if you are interested. Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id AAA20577 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:34:50 +1000 Received: (qmail 15281 invoked by uid 38); 13 Sep 1999 14:12:38 -0000 Resent-Date: 13 Sep 1999 14:12:38 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: ravn@mip.sdu.dk Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:12:18 +0200 From: Thorbjoern Ravn Andersen To: Andrew Morton Cc: "ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org" Subject: Re: No "bugs" link on linuxdoc.org In-Reply-To: <37DCFDBC.61099E3@asiapacificm01.nt.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/425 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by albert.animats.net id AAA20577 On Mon, 13 Sep 1999, Andrew Morton wrote: > Case in point: I just noticed that > http://linuxdoc.org/HOWTO/mini/Colour-ls-3.html is full of things like > > % ls ‐‐color > > So I ask myself "hmm, how do I report this?". I go to the homepage and > it doesn't tell me. > > > > I've copied Thorbjorn on this email, but I note that he last touched the > doc two years ago, so he may not be the current maintainer... I have recently released the mini-howto in the unmaintained area. The problem is with the conversion utilities, since I believe I have written the original document correctly. Does this mean that the linuxdoc specification will be corrected? -- Thorbjørn Ravn Andersen "...plus...Tubular Bells!" http://unixsnedkeren.dk/ravn -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id EAA21573 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 04:07:44 +1000 Received: (qmail 18397 invoked by uid 38); 13 Sep 1999 18:07:38 -0000 Resent-Date: 13 Sep 1999 18:07:38 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: psj@mustec.eu.org Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 19:01:09 +0100 (GMT) From: P Jenner To: howto@metalab.unc.edu cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Problems with submission procedure Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/432 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org I have been conversing with the maintainer of the ALSA mini-HOWTO about updating the LDP version to the current version. His reply was: > I sent a notice to the HOWTO-maintainer, but to no avail it seems. > (Note: I do not have "ldp access" or something, just send my HOWTO to > the maintainer once in a while). I think this kind of response from an official maintainer indicates that a better submission approach needs to be arranged and publicised. Especially as the maintainer talks about not having "ldp access" which all who submit to the LDP should have. Is this something which we can address with the new look LDP? Comments? Paul ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul S Jenner GNU/Linux Advocate E-mail: psj@mustec.eu.org WWW: http://www.mustec.eu.org/~psj/ UNSOLICITED COMMERCIAL E-MAIL IS NOT WELCOME AT THIS ADDRESS ----------------------------------------------------------------------- V. -- Valentijn Sessink - valentyn&dds.nl or stopspam1@valentijn.nl.eu.org - (CET daytime) Email (o.; g.mv.) glasachtige, ondoorzichtige of transparante massa, in een dunne laag aangebracht ter bedekking of versiering (brandverf) van metalen, glazen en stenen voorwerpen en keramiek. (Van Dale, 12e uitgave, 1992) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id XAA07908 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 23:07:34 +1000 Received: (qmail 29464 invoked by uid 38); 19 Sep 1999 13:07:25 -0000 Resent-Date: 19 Sep 1999 13:07:25 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: rubini@morgana.systemy.it Message-ID: <19990919150623.10334@morgana.systemy.it> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 15:06:23 +0200 From: Alessandro Rubini To: ajpalace@fc.up.pt Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: translations (was: Re: Are we good enough ?) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1 Resent-Message-ID: <2acCKB.A.LMH.MAO53@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/498 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Hello. Alfredo notes: > it says that permission from the authors is required for > distribution of translations of the manuals, although such > permission is not required for the distribution of the > originals. [...] why this difference between the freedom of > distribution of translations in comparison to the distribuiton of > the original texts? Usually, licenses that allow creating derived documents usually allow translations as well. Licences that don't allow derived documents don't allow translations. The point is that a translation is not the original document.For example, the FSF only allows verbatim copies of the articles on their web site, while translations must be approved (not by RMS, usually, but by trusted people who know the target language). "Open Sources" has been published in Italy, but the original translation of RMS' article was so badly written and so full of misinterpretation and plain conceptual errors that we had to rewrite it from scratch. Publishing such crap would damage the free software movement rather than help it. Well, I'm curious to read the rest of the translated book :) /alessandro -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id CAA08795 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 02:29:29 +1000 Received: (qmail 1674 invoked by uid 38); 19 Sep 1999 16:28:46 -0000 Resent-Date: 19 Sep 1999 16:28:45 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: howto@wallybox.cei.net Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 11:17:24 -0500 (CDT) From: "HOWTO \(from metalab\)" To: Marcus Maul cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: DNS-HOWTO translatet into german? In-Reply-To: <000f01bf02b4$f0252c00$0308e289@workgroup> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/499 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Marcus, > I've heard that there maybe one person who translate the DNS-HOWTO > into german. But Nicolai Langfeld didn't know if this is really so. No one has contacted me personally, but perhaps they've contacted someone else. I will send a copy of this to the ldp-discuss mailing list. > > If no one translate this good howto into german, I'll try. > It would take a few month because of the point that I have not very > much spear time. > > Please let me know if there is one while it is not good when two men > do the same work. > > Marcus Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id IAA17354 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:13:17 +1000 Received: (qmail 4294 invoked by uid 38); 20 Sep 1999 22:13:06 -0000 Resent-Date: 20 Sep 1999 22:13:06 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: pjones@metalab.unc.edu X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: pjones owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:13:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul Jones X-Sender: pjones@titan.oit.unc.edu To: Knud Haugaard =?iso-2022-jp?B?U/hyZW5zZW4=?= cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Future goals for LDP, my wish list. In-Reply-To: <37E6A952.79BE60AE@aeiwi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Resent-Message-ID: <1gD99C.A.yCB.xFr53@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/521 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by albert.animats.net id IAA17354 On Mon, 20 Sep 1999, Knud Haugaard [iso-2022-jp] Sørensen wrote: > I think that LDP would benefit from a open directory like structure. > > With editors joining and starting a document.(easy joining) > > The document should be base on a templet (easy start) > depending on what the document is for: tutorial, reference, etc. > (maybe XML) this could be the begining of an (XML perhaps) metadata object that would describe the document and its status etc. believe it or not, we're working on that very thing to present to you this week (the hurricane slowed us a bit). we in this case is folks from UNC plus Kendall and Ismael > > > All the editing of a document should be possible online. > (easy editing) > (No need for software downloads, If you got a browser) > > The reader should be able to attach comments > on the document, slashdot style.(easy feedback) i agree with this in particular. tom boutell's openFAQ incorporates this concept somewhat, but so do most on-line publications. does require moderation tho. > > All documents should contain meta data, > for easy generations of indexes. this was our idea, but we extended it a bit so that the metadata object could represent a document not even on the site or say not even in text (say a video or audio object) > All documents should have proper chosen meta tag > keywords for keywords filtering (EX: http://www.aeiwi.com) agree > > All documents be under one license > so it can be distributed an used as a whole. i won't touch this one ;-> our metadata allows for license choice so that you could distribute say all GLPed docs and no others > The web site might be created > with apache + postgresql + php. got it already. except i think we're using mySQL but we can easily add postgres > -- > Aeiwi is a search tool with a unique interface. > Which let users add more search terms, > until they have a small number of results. > > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org > > ========================================================================== Paul Jones "We must protect our precious bodily fluids!" General Jack D Ripper http://MetaLab.unc.edu/pjones/ at the Site Formerly Known As SunSITE.unc.edu pjones@MetaLab.unc.edu voice: (919) 962-7600 fax: (919) 962-8071 =========================================================================== -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id IAA24130 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 08:44:09 +1000 Received: (qmail 10504 invoked by uid 38); 21 Sep 1999 22:37:13 -0000 Resent-Date: 21 Sep 1999 22:37:13 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: guylhem@terram.oeil.qc.ca Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 00:36:29 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: Andrea Fanfani Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Corel Debian Message-ID: <19990922003629.A1215@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: <19990921112822.A956@victis.oeil.qc.ca> <19990922011907.C288@akela> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=GvXjxJ+pjyke8COw; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <19990922011907.C288@akela>; from Andrea Fanfani on Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 01:19:08AM +0200 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/532 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org --GvXjxJ+pjyke8COw Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 01:19:08AM +0200, Andrea Fanfani wrote: > Hi, please consider the announce of problems with GPL and corel > distribution on slashdot.org That's why I asked it for the LDP, not for a single person. --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Save East Timor: http://altern.org/spoirier/timor.html http://www.pst-timor= .org --GvXjxJ+pjyke8COw Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN+gIbd+QeWug/qfFAQFLqgP/SaMi9NCgEHxaSNkccCU6WF1DI866/5JP cxi/vHeH6Jvl/+YU4WJZ6RtPyVW1HbuhwtSOHCuFQfFH/S55l+7VvnZ2xm7ARUvc f7f8gFRS9hAvqX6K5LW4PKyXOmr8zYEM8Fr6vrabD+zLe6iW5yguDWcIKnAcHVCd Dq+qe5DRCVY= =bQ5b -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --GvXjxJ+pjyke8COw-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id KAA24778 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:59:48 +1000 Received: (qmail 29810 invoked by uid 38); 22 Sep 1999 00:59:29 -0000 Resent-Date: 22 Sep 1999 00:59:29 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: poet@linuxports.com Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 18:07:57 -0700 (PDT) From: "Mr. Poet" X-Sender: jd@crazypenguins.commandprompt.com To: Andrea Fanfani cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org, ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org, recipient list not shown: ; Subject: Re: Corel Debian In-Reply-To: <19990922011907.C288@akela> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/535 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Hello, This is irrelavant for the question that was asked. Our job is to document Linux, not battle legal trifles over licensing issues. Poet LinuxPorts - http://www.linuxports.com LDP - http://www.linuxdoc.org On Wed, 22 Sep 1999, Andrea Fanfani wrote: > On Tue, Sep 21, 1999 at 11:28:22AM +0200, Guylhem Aznar wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I replyied to Corel's call for beta testers, to get a preview CD for the > > LDP. > > > > I think we could write an HOWTO about this distribution. > > > > If someone is interested, please tell me. > > > > Hi, please consider the announce of problems with GPL and corel > distribution on slashdot.org > > Regards > Andrea > -- > Andrea Fanfani > andrea@debian.org > andrea@linux.it > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from hub.org (hub.org [216.126.84.1]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA16926 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 02:33:02 +1000 Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA40817; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 12:29:04 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from owner-techwriters@linuxchix.org) Received: by hub.org (bulk_mailer v1.5); Sat, 25 Sep 1999 12:28:30 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA40750 for techwriters-outgoing; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 12:27:36 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from owner-techwriters@linuxchix.org) Received: (from cyrus@localhost) by hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA40713 for techwriters@hub.org; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 12:26:36 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from cyrus) Received: from snet.wit.ie (btyers@snet.wit.ie [193.1.184.177]) by hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA40695 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 12:26:18 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from btyers@snet.wit.ie) Received: from localhost (btyers@localhost) by snet.wit.ie (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA11021 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 17:26:26 +0100 Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 17:26:26 +0100 (IST) From: Bernard Tyers To: techwriters@linuxchix.org Subject: Re: [oswg] about open source docs In-Reply-To: <37EB8762.FEA08DE3@thepuffingroup.com> Message-ID: Geek-Drink: Jolt Geek-News: Slashdot MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-techwriters@linuxchix.org Reply-To: techwriters@linuxchix.org On Fri, 24 Sep 1999, Deb Richardson wrote: > I've been noticing recently that while there are hundreds (if not > thousands) of people working constantly to improve and extend > open-source code, the same is not happening with open-source > documentation. > > I was wondering if anyone here had an insight as to why this is the > case. I'm beginning to suspect that documentation simply does not lend > itself well to collaborative effort. no deb, i wouldn't agree..i have written small docs with people majorily by e-mail..if people want to do it, they will. it's just a case of getting interested enough. Perhaps writing documentation is > difficult enough (and often thankless enough) that few are really > interested in spending their spare time working on it. i would agree with that. the majority of people i know, want at least a mention of their name. it may be a boasti thing, but its human thought. you want to be thanked and "praised" for what you do. and if people don't see their names "in big lights". > What do you think? What are the issues here? There's certainly more > than enough work to be done on free open-source docs. well, not knowing the ins and outs, but after i take it that there is a big discussion on the ldp list about reformatting/ etc docs. may not be a valid point tho'. > I'm looking for insight on this to see if there's anything the OSWG can > do to help change/fix the situation so more people are more able/willing > to work on free open-source docs. Is it just a matter of not knowing > where to start? Is it a more fundamental issue involving tools and/or > procedures? Is it simply a matter of documentation being difficult and > time-consuming? yes, i would agree that doc'ing is time-consuming. and as i said , if people don['t get some praise, they feel that all their hours have gone to waste.. maybe its just my idea. but anyway.. thanks. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- rgrds, ...bernard.. Bernard Tyers. B.Tech.Elec. Mail: btyers@snet.wit.ie, Web: snet.wit.ie/bbt "A mouse is just an elephant built by the Japanese." From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from hub.org (hub.org [216.126.84.1]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA17401 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 04:10:14 +1000 Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA46192; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 14:05:07 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from owner-techwriters@linuxchix.org) Received: by hub.org (bulk_mailer v1.5); Sat, 25 Sep 1999 14:04:32 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA46134 for techwriters-outgoing; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 14:03:37 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from owner-techwriters@linuxchix.org) Received: (from cyrus@localhost) by hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA46083 for techwriters@hub.org; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 14:02:37 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from cyrus) Received: from mlx1.unm.edu (mlx1.unm.edu [129.24.8.181]) by hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA46054 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 14:02:14 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from vuksan@cs.unm.edu) Received: (qmail 27499 invoked from network); 25 Sep 1999 18:02:12 -0000 Received: from earth.cs.unm.edu (HELO karlovac.veus.hr) (198.83.89.14) by mlx1.unm.edu with SMTP; 25 Sep 1999 18:02:11 -0000 Received: from localhost (vuksan@localhost) by karlovac.veus.hr (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA00768 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 12:02:09 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: karlovac.veus.hr: vuksan owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 12:02:06 -0700 (MST) From: Vladimir Vuksan X-Sender: vuksan@karlovac.veus.hr To: techwriters@linuxchix.org Subject: Re: [oswg] project suggestions Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-techwriters@linuxchix.org Reply-To: techwriters@linuxchix.org On Sat, 25 Sep 1999, Deb Richardson wrote: >systems can be mostly automated, and there are similar systems in place >elsewhere. The CVS stuff and the sgml2html --> website shouldn't be >difficult to set up. This is the most trivial part of the project but I would argue a critical one. Without a proper infrastructure our work cannot be published and doesnt' have much value :-(. > One thing that was mentioned was the "make people feel that the project > is BIG and IMPORTANT". I understand the need for this, but how can this > be accomplished? Or is this something that just a naturally emerging > property of a successful project? I think this comes with a successful project. I have gotten hundreds of messages from people either contributing to my HOWTOs or sending me corrections. That makes me feel BIG and IMPORTANT :-) since I know those documents actually helped someone. This also ties in with the infrastructure since I want to have my documentation up to date and correct (call it a matter of pride). If as in case of LDP I am not able to update my own documents my motivation goes down the tubes :-(. Vladimir From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from hub.org (hub.org [216.126.84.1]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA17614 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 04:54:57 +1000 Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA47549; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 14:51:15 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from owner-techwriters@linuxchix.org) Received: by hub.org (bulk_mailer v1.5); Sat, 25 Sep 1999 14:50:37 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA47480 for techwriters-outgoing; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 14:49:42 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from owner-techwriters@linuxchix.org) Received: (from cyrus@localhost) by hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA47459 for techwriters@hub.org; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 14:48:45 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from cyrus) Received: from vodka.linuxkb.org (foobar@vodka.linuxkb.org [205.231.210.90]) by hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA47454 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 14:48:33 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from aturner@vodka.linuxkb.org) Received: (qmail 20966 invoked by uid 10024); 25 Sep 1999 17:48:33 -0000 Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 10:48:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Aaron Turner To: techwriters@linuxchix.org cc: Linux Knowledge Base Discuss Subject: Re: [oswg] project suggestions In-Reply-To: <37ED058E.F46D03CE@thepuffingroup.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-techwriters@linuxchix.org Reply-To: techwriters@linuxchix.org [Please be sure to hit reply to all. Thanks] On Sat, 25 Sep 1999, Deb Richardson wrote: > There has been some fantastic feedback re: "the dream OS documentation > project". Rest assured, I'm taking copious notes, and I will do > everything I can to create an effective and efficient infrastructure for > doc projects at the OSWG. > > If anyone out there has other ideas or suggestions, please let me know > or post to the list. No idea is too wild at this point...this is just a > brainstorm session. What ideas can actually be implemented is something > we'll worry about later. Ok, wild and crazy idea: Help me and my group with the Linux KB. We already have months of work put into the project and are currently ramping up for the finaly development phase prior to going live. We're going to open up all our code/back end under the GPL so anyone can take it for any other OSS doc project. The main strength of the project is it's ability to sort, organize, and search large amounts of content which is stored in a MySQL db. 99% of the time, the biggest problem of the end user is *finding the doc*. Most end-users don't care if it's in HTML, plain text, XML, or whatever. They just want an answer they can acutally find in a reasonable amount of time. Shameless plug: We're looking for dedicated PHP and C++ coders right now. If you're interested, go to http://www.linuxkb.org/ and fill out the form. > Right now the major issues seem to revolve around speed and efficiency: > make it as easy as possible for people to submit docs, and get those > docs up and available as quickly as possible. Theoretically, these > systems can be mostly automated, and there are similar systems in place > elsewhere. The CVS stuff and the sgml2html --> website shouldn't be > difficult to set up. Personally, I believe that until you have an email gateway, you havn't simplified it down enough to really get large amounts of entries. (Just think if people on mailing lists cc answers your site, and you had a group of people who spent an hour a week reformating answers.) But, this really boils down to how you want to position your site. Do you want a smaller number of long documents that deal with grand problems (ala LDP) or do you want a larger number of smaller documents that deal with the day-to-day issues? If the first, then a CVS system is probably fine, but it will likely spell death to the second goal because it's too compilcated/time consuming for someone to use/setup for a answer that only requires a couple of paragraphs. > One thing that was mentioned was the "make people feel that the project > is BIG and IMPORTANT". I understand the need for this, but how can this > be accomplished? Or is this something that just a naturally emerging > property of a successful project? It's definately a chicken-egg thing. One way the LinuxKB worked to get past that issue is with corporate sponsorships. Get someone well respected like VA to support your site and all of a sudden you have a heads up on everyone else. Definately advertise or make press releases. Companies like VA can be an excellent partner if you can convince them what you are doing matters. And if you can't convince them, then you need to ask yourself if you're doing the right thing. (VA could be wrong of course!) Name recognition is important. You also have to woo users/authors with your site's technology. Do what you do better than most. Be end-user centric. Determine what the readers need and make sure you address those first. As I said above, make it *EASY* and *QUICK* for people to find what they are looking for. If they haven't found it in the first two minutes, most will probably give up and look someplace else. Be able to scale your search/indexing system to 1000's or even 100's of thousands of articles. Make it very easy for users to provide feedback to the author (ie, web based form). Provide a stats page. "Joe Writer has written 10 documents (listed below). These documents have an average rating of 8.5 and have helped 139 people." This way you're giving back to the author (they can put this on their resume for example). It also provides them MUCH needed feedback and a pat on the back. To summarize: - Know your audience, and be audience centric - Remember to position your site to do something well which your audience needs - Give your authors feedback from the audience - Give back to your authors - Get sponsored - Make your site a household name - KISS always KISS - Content is more important than the markup language -- Aaron Turner, Core Developer http://vodka.linuxkb.org/~aturner/ Linux Knowledge Base Organization http://linuxkb.org/ Because world domination requires quality open documentation. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from hub.org (hub.org [216.126.84.1]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA05748 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:04:33 +1000 Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA60505; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 19:02:10 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from owner-techwriters@linuxchix.org) Received: by hub.org (bulk_mailer v1.5); Sun, 26 Sep 1999 19:00:51 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA60399 for techwriters-outgoing; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 19:00:03 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from owner-techwriters@linuxchix.org) Received: (from cyrus@localhost) by hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA60365 for techwriters@hub.org; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 18:58:57 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from cyrus) Received: from spork.cs.unm.edu (root@mail.cs.unm.edu [198.59.151.21]) by hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA60353 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 18:58:17 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from vuksan@cs.unm.edu) Received: from eretz.cs.unm.edu ([198.83.89.15] helo=cs.unm.edu ident=vuksan) by spork.cs.unm.edu with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #3) id 11VNFJ-00018V-00 for techwriters@linuxchix.org; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 16:58:17 -0600 Message-ID: <37EEA504.359CB83C@cs.unm.edu> Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 16:58:12 -0600 From: Vladimir Vuksan X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.10 i686) X-Accept-Language: hr, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: techwriters@linuxchix.org Subject: Re: [oswg] about open source docs References: <37EBA78E.24DDAAE9@stormix.com> <37EBAA97.247CC986@linuxmall.com> <37EBB886.748E1DD6@cs.unm.edu> <19990924193458.A7879@loaclhost.telent.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-techwriters@linuxchix.org Reply-To: techwriters@linuxchix.org Content-Length: 0 Lines: 22 Daniel Barlow wrote: > > On Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 11:44:38AM -0600, Vladimir Vuksan wrote: > > My question is, if you worked for a company that paid you good bucks and > > you had to put up with stuff like this would you quit ? I think I would > > be looking for another job. > > Personally, I've had it with the LDP. Anything else I write (quick plug: > cmucl-on-linux not-an-official-howto at http://ww.telent.net/lisp.howto.html) > I will stick on my own site and let the search engines find. I don't > see that the services the LDP provides really amount to much more than > that. > > I've had _so_ much more free time since I unsubscribed from ldp-discuss. For the purpose of my mental health I am planning of doing the same. Now if I can only remove my submissions from LDP I will be done :-). Deb, I am volunteering as a beta tester for the new OSWG documentation project :-). Vladimir From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from hub.org (hub.org [216.126.84.1]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id QAA07871 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:00:19 +1000 Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA16021; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 01:57:30 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from owner-techwriters@linuxchix.org) Received: by hub.org (bulk_mailer v1.5); Mon, 27 Sep 1999 01:56:56 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA15972 for techwriters-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 01:56:02 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from owner-techwriters@linuxchix.org) Received: (from cyrus@localhost) by hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA15933 for techwriters@hub.org; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 01:55:02 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from cyrus) Received: from smtp11.bellglobal.com (smtp11.bellglobal.com [204.101.251.53]) by hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA15925 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 01:54:08 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from deb@thepuffingroup.com) Received: from thepuffingroup.com (cpu1674.adsl.bellglobal.com [206.47.27.155]) by smtp11.bellglobal.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA02342 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 01:57:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37EF06EB.BD4066D7@thepuffingroup.com> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 01:55:55 -0400 From: Deb Richardson Organization: The Puffin Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.5-15 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: techwriters@linuxchix.org Subject: [oswg] licenses Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-techwriters@linuxchix.org Reply-To: techwriters@linuxchix.org I really hate to bring it up, but we're going to have to discuss it eventually: licenses. When Matt Welsh wrote his "memo" regarding the LDP a while back, he discussed the possibility of defining a class of license that would stand as a measure against which various licenses could be held to see whether or not they were appropriate for use by the LDP. I'm a fan of this idea, because that allows for a certain level of flexibility -- authors won't be forced to accept or reject a single license, but they will be able to select from a variety of licenses that have all been shown to meet the basic licensing requirements of the project (in this case, the OSWG). I would like the OSWG to do this sort of thing -- come up with a basic set of licensing guidelines (that which defines the baseline for acceptable licenses), and, if there's time, to identify a number of licenses that meet those guidelines. One thing that I think is ABSOLUTELY VITAL (emphasis very much intended), is that the license guidelines ensure that any documentation released within the scope of the OSWG is free and open-source, belongs to the community, and is ensured to remain that way. Naturally, when I say "free" I mean it in both senses of the word -- free beer, free speech. The OSWG is a fledgling project, to be sure, but when I started this I did it in an attempt to give back to the community that has given me so much. This project is of the community, by the community, and for the community, and I FULLY intend that it shall remain so. Perhaps some will deem me overly idealistic in this stance, but so be it. Some things are too important. All that in mind (I'll get off my mini-soapbox now), I would like to discuss possible license guidelines and licenses that are likely to meet those guidelines. As authors (or potential authors) of free and open-source documentation, what do -you- think is important in a license? What licenses have you/would you release docs under? Why? Etc. - deb -- deb@thepuffingroup.com deb@linuxchix.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from hub.org (hub.org [216.126.84.1]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id VAA16207 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 21:13:45 +1000 Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA84884; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 07:08:30 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from owner-techwriters@linuxchix.org) Received: by hub.org (bulk_mailer v1.5); Tue, 28 Sep 1999 07:08:24 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA84771 for techwriters-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 07:07:28 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from owner-techwriters@linuxchix.org) Received: (from cyrus@localhost) by hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA84678 for techwriters@hub.org; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 07:06:34 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from cyrus) Received: from loaclhost.telent.net (mail@[212.113.30.134]) by hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA84589 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 07:05:55 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from dan@telent.net) Received: from dan by loaclhost.telent.net with local (Exim 2.05 #1 (Debian)) id 11Vv4q-0001l4-00; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:05:44 +0100 Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:05:43 +0100 From: Daniel Barlow To: techwriters@linuxchix.org Subject: Re: [oswg] docbook/sgmltools troubles :( Message-ID: <19990928120543.C4015@loaclhost.telent.net> References: <19990927225933.B20067@netizen.com.au> <19990927211630.A4436@loaclhost.telent.net> <19990928204353.A27030@netizen.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <19990928204353.A27030@netizen.com.au>; from skud@netizen.com.au on Tue, Sep 28, 1999 at 08:43:53PM +1000 Sender: owner-techwriters@linuxchix.org Reply-To: techwriters@linuxchix.org On Tue, Sep 28, 1999 at 08:43:53PM +1000, skud@netizen.com.au wrote: > Now for my next trick -- what's the magic invocation to convert to > postscript, or any intermediate thing that will convert to postscript? > (eg LaTeX, dvi, etc) The jade docs don't seem to tell me the things I > need to know. Now *there's* something someone ought to document :-/ Try a jade invocation much like the one you already have, but this time use /usr/lib/dsssl/stylesheets/docbook/print/docbook.dsl as the dsl file. That comes out as something along the TeX output chain - haven't checked what. For big docs apparently it also overflows the TeX memory pool. Lars Wirzenius (the ultimate source of all this information) says: ----- I needed to do the following to my Debian setup to get things to format with DocBook and jadetex: - Append the following lines to /etc/texmf/texmf.cnf: % for jadetex main_memory.jadetex = 1100000 hash_extra.jadetex = 15000 pool_size.jadetex = 500000 string_vacancies.jadetex = 45000 max_strings.jadetex = 55000 pool_free.jadetex = 47500 nest_size.jadetex = 500 param_size.jadetex = 1500 save_size.jadetex = 5000 stack_size.jadetex = 1500 ----- OK, it's not fair that I should keep all this information to myself and only let it out in dribs and drabs. So I've uploaded the gzipped tarball of Lars' proposed LDP CVS tree (dates from sometime early this year when CVS was first going to happen) to http://ww.telent.net/ldp-cvs-draft1.tar.gz and anyone who wants to can poke around it for answers in the same way as I do. -dan From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from hub.org (hub.org [216.126.84.1]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA17286 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 01:09:56 +1000 Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA31041; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:01:55 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from owner-techwriters@linuxchix.org) Received: by hub.org (bulk_mailer v1.5); Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:01:43 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA30896 for techwriters-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:00:43 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from owner-techwriters@linuxchix.org) Received: (from cyrus@localhost) by hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA30466 for techwriters@hub.org; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 10:59:43 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from cyrus) Received: from Tux.LinuxMall.com (Tux.LinuxMall.com [209.38.172.13]) by hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA30433 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 10:59:29 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from zonker@linuxmall.com) Received: (qmail 377 invoked from network); 28 Sep 1999 14:59:17 -0000 Received: from net18-cust107.den.wantweb.net (HELO linuxmall.com) (@24.236.18.107) by linuxmall.com with SMTP; 28 Sep 1999 14:59:17 -0000 Message-ID: <37F0D804.5448C8C3@linuxmall.com> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 09:00:20 -0600 From: "Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier" Organization: LinuxMall.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.6 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: techwriters@linuxchix.org Subject: Re: [oswg] licenses References: <37EF06EB.BD4066D7@thepuffingroup.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-techwriters@linuxchix.org Reply-To: techwriters@linuxchix.org Deb Richardson wrote: > > I really hate to bring it up, but we're going to have to discuss it > eventually: licenses. > > I would like the OSWG to do this sort of thing -- come up with a basic > set of licensing guidelines (that which defines the baseline for > acceptable licenses), and, if there's time, to identify a number of > licenses that meet those guidelines. To me the things that are important are that the license is "viral" - nothing that I write can be integrated into something else that is less free than I intend it to be - the license should require that a document that contains my work must state what work is mine, partially because I at least want my work to be acknowledged and partly because I want it made clear what work is NOT mine. I've skimmed the draft of the license that Richard Stallman is working on, I don't care for the idea that you would have to put the license statement on the cover (that's how I understand the language in the document) - if my work were to end up in something like one of the printed LDP books, I would much rather it have the license on the inside and a neat cover on the outside. I also like the idea of an "Invariant" section - with one exception - when a work is submitted to the LDP, if an author has incorporated into their work a political diatribe or opinion about something, then ceases to maintain the documentation, a person maintaining the work should not have to continue to maintain a document that they disagree with. However, as long as the license permits "derivative works" a new maintainer should be able to start a new document based on the old, rather than updating the previous document. My ideal license would also require that any derivative works should properly credit my documents. I guess that boils down to these points: 1. The work should always be free as in "freedom." 2. The license should be viral. 3. Must give proper credit to the author(s). 4. Provisions for "inviolable" or "invariant" sections. 5. Collections must contain the license prominently inside, but not necessarily on the cover. Perhaps we should pass the license that Stallman has written and mark it up a bit amongst ourselves and return it to him with revisions? Zonker -- "Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible" Frank Zappa Joe "Zonker" Brockmeier zonker@LinuxMall.com Marketing and Vendor Relations LinuxMall.com --> is The Linux Superstore Phone: 303-693-3321 Fax: 303-699-2793 From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from hub.org (hub.org [216.126.84.1]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id HAA19211 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 07:39:00 +1000 Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA05826; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:32:03 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from owner-techwriters@linuxchix.org) Received: by hub.org (bulk_mailer v1.5); Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:31:52 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA05598 for techwriters-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:30:53 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from owner-techwriters@linuxchix.org) Received: (from cyrus@localhost) by hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA05099 for techwriters@hub.org; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:29:53 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from cyrus) Received: from usrlms006.prenhall.com (usrlms006.prenhall.com [198.4.159.40]) by hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05050 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:29:32 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from JKoch@mcp.com) From: JKoch@mcp.com Received: from usrlms004.prenhall.com (168.146.69.20) by usrlms006.prenhall.com (NPlex 2.0.119) for techwriters@linuxchix.org; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:29:31 -0400 X-Internal-ID: 37EF95230001C080 Received: from carmms101.mcp.com (168.146.148.11) by usrlms004.prenhall.com (NPlex 2.0.119) for techwriters@linuxchix.org; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:29:33 -0400 Received: by CARMMS101 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 16:29:30 -0500 Message-ID: <5753A9B81DE9D211AAC6006008176ED971181F@CARMMS102> To: techwriters@linuxchix.org Subject: RE: [oswg] licenses Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 16:29:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-techwriters@linuxchix.org Reply-To: techwriters@linuxchix.org > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier [mailto:zonker@linuxmall.com] > Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 1999 10:00 AM > To: techwriters@linuxchix.org > Subject: Re: [oswg] licenses > > I've skimmed the draft of the license that Richard Stallman > is working on, > I don't care for the idea that you would have to put the > license statement > on the cover (that's how I understand the language in the > document) - if > my work were to end up in something like one of the printed > LDP books, I > would much rather it have the license on the inside and a > neat cover on > the outside. The version of the license I have does specify Front Cover and Back Cover texts, but those texts are not related to the license - section 9 indicates the license should go on the title page. > > I also like the idea of an "Invariant" section - with one > exception - when > a work is submitted to the LDP, if an author has incorporated > into their > work a political diatribe or opinion about something, then > ceases to maintain > the documentation, a person maintaining the work should not > have to continue > to maintain a document that they disagree with. However, as > long as the > license permits "derivative works" a new maintainer should be > able to start > a new document based on the old, rather than updating the > previous document. The DGPL does allow for Modified works. There probably needs to be some further clarification as to what Invariant means. Some people may construe it to mean "Must be included" in addition to "Cannot change". In addition to what you have below, my "ideal" license is also a consistant one - free and open - which is why I'm excited about the DGPL. Other current "open" licenses don't seem to provide the same consistant message. Jeff -- Jeff Koch Executive Editor, Macmillan USA 201 W. 103rd Street, Indianapolis IN 46290 email: jkoch@mcp.com > > My ideal license would also require that any derivative works > should properly > credit my documents. > > I guess that boils down to these points: > 1. The work should always be free as in "freedom." > 2. The license should be viral. > 3. Must give proper credit to the author(s). > 4. Provisions for "inviolable" or "invariant" sections. > 5. Collections must contain the license prominently inside, > but not necessarily on the cover. > > Perhaps we should pass the license that Stallman has written > and mark it up > a bit amongst ourselves and return it to him with revisions? > > Zonker > > > -- > "Without deviation from the norm, progress is not > possible" Frank Zappa > Joe "Zonker" Brockmeier zonker@LinuxMall.com > Marketing and Vendor Relations > LinuxMall.com --> is The Linux Superstore > Phone: 303-693-3321 Fax: 303-699-2793 > From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from hub.org (hub.org [216.126.84.1]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id DAA25246 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 03:20:00 +1000 Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA11145; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:08:44 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from owner-techwriters@linuxchix.org) Received: by hub.org (bulk_mailer v1.5); Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:07:05 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA10659 for techwriters-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:06:12 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from owner-techwriters@linuxchix.org) Received: (from cyrus@localhost) by hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA10619 for techwriters@hub.org; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:06:02 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from cyrus) Received: from gate.dkl.com (gate.dkl.com [209.151.12.1]) by hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10597 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:05:51 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from sharris@dkl.com) Received: from dkl.com (sandy.dkl.com [209.151.12.68]) by gate.dkl.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id NAA31031 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:05:43 -0400 Message-ID: <37F246FB.3CD29513@dkl.com> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:06:03 -0400 From: Sandy Harris Organization: Data Kinetics Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en,fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: techwriters@linuxchix.org Subject: Re: [oswg] LDP - formats supported References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-techwriters@linuxchix.org Reply-To: techwriters@linuxchix.org P Jenner wrote: > > On Sun, 29 Aug 1999, {poet} wrote: > > Personally The formats I think we should support are: > > SGML (Docbook) > > X/HTML (XHTML/HTML4) > > Text > > PDF > > Sounds sensible to provide all three on the web - SGML for changes > and downloads, HTML for on-line viewing and ASCII text and PDF for > printing. Has anyone got a tool that will convert existing HTML stuff to SGML (docbook) format? At first glance, it looks like a fairly simple sedscript could do ~90% of this, but "the devil is in the details" and I suspect getting it right might be fairly difficult. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from hub.org (hub.org [216.126.84.1]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA25715 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 04:59:23 +1000 Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA26082; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:22:27 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from owner-techwriters@linuxchix.org) Received: by hub.org (bulk_mailer v1.5); Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:22:14 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA25897 for techwriters-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:21:12 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from owner-techwriters@linuxchix.org) Received: (from cyrus@localhost) by hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA25868 for techwriters@hub.org; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:21:04 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from cyrus) Received: from loaclhost.telent.net (mail@[212.113.30.134]) by hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25776 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:20:24 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from dan@telent.net) Received: from dan by loaclhost.telent.net with local (Exim 2.05 #1 (Debian)) id 11WOKb-0002u1-00; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:19:57 +0100 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:19:57 +0100 From: Daniel Barlow To: techwriters@linuxchix.org Subject: Re: [oswg] LDP - formats supported Message-ID: <19990929191957.A10855@loaclhost.telent.net> References: <37F246FB.3CD29513@dkl.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <37F246FB.3CD29513@dkl.com>; from Sandy Harris on Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 01:06:03PM -0400 Sender: owner-techwriters@linuxchix.org Reply-To: techwriters@linuxchix.org On Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 01:06:03PM -0400, Sandy Harris wrote: > Has anyone got a tool that will convert existing HTML stuff to SGML > (docbook) format? To do it usefully will, I suspect, be Not That Simple. Reason being that DocBook markup is structural (this is a command, that is a variable, the other is program output) whereas HTML tends more often to be presentational (this is in typewriter font, that is in italics) Going from structure to presentation is easy enough, but the reverse is rather trickier. > At first glance, it looks like a fairly simple sedscript could do ~90% > of this, but "the devil is in the details" and I suspect getting it > right might be fairly difficult. Now at this point I should have remembered that profound Unix truism: ``Some people, when confronted with a Unix problem, think `I know, I'll use sed.' Now they have two problems'' -- Jamie Zawinski -dan From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from hub.org (hub.org [216.126.84.1]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id FAA25729 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 05:00:51 +1000 Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA16652; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:38:25 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from owner-techwriters@linuxchix.org) Received: by hub.org (bulk_mailer v1.5); Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:38:14 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA16539 for techwriters-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:37:11 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from owner-techwriters@linuxchix.org) Received: (from cyrus@localhost) by hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA16519 for techwriters@hub.org; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:37:03 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from cyrus) Received: from hrdcgate.nhq.hrdc-drhc.gc.ca (hrdcgate.nhq.hrdc-drhc.gc.ca [198.103.152.3]) by hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA16452 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:36:17 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from charles.macdonald@hrdc-drhc.gc.ca) From: charles.macdonald@hrdc-drhc.gc.ca Received: from [10.54.254.12] by hrdcgate.nhq.hrdc-drhc.gc.ca via smtpd (for hub.org [216.126.84.1]) with SMTP; 29 Sep 1999 17:36:17 UT X-Internal-ID: 37F0C7EB00004CFF Received: from gwsmtpim3.hq-ac.prv (10.54.254.18) by svmailsw2.hq-ac.prv (NPlex 2.0.119) for techwriters@linuxchix.org; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:36:43 -0400 Received: by gwsmtpim3.hq-ac.prv with VINES-ISMTP; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:35:57 -0400 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:27:41 -0400 Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) To: Subject: Re: [oswg] LDP - formats supported X-Incognito-SN: 12869 X-Incognito-Version: 4.25.361 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-techwriters@linuxchix.org Reply-To: techwriters@linuxchix.org Looks like the problem would actually _be_ the details .. The SGML format uses symbolic codes while HTML uses what I would call Physical codes. Thus in HTML you may have a "heading 3" which is bigger than a "heading 4" while the SGML would have a "chapter" A subhead, or whatever.. (I am still not sure what the deatils are at this point) The problem is that one or more of the SGML heads convert into the same HTML head. Perhaps someone could dream-up a tool that would display the HTML text, and give you a bunch of buttons with all the SGML codes, and let you just click on a spot and select the formatting to apply to that spot/line/selection. With a prompt for each of the HTML tags asking what SGML classification each one should be replaced with. (for all I know, that is what one of the tools that I have not downloaded yet does.) Charles MacDonald - Labour Information Management < My own Opinion unless Otherwise Credited > ---------- Original Text ---------- From: "Sandy Harris" , on 1999/09/29 13:12: To: INET[] P Jenner wrote: > > On Sun, 29 Aug 1999, {poet} wrote: > > Personally The formats I think we should support are: > > SGML (Docbook) > > X/HTML (XHTML/HTML4) > > Text > > PDF > > Sounds sensible to provide all three on the web - SGML for changes > and downloads, HTML for on-line viewing and ASCII text and PDF for > printing. Has anyone got a tool that will convert existing HTML stuff to SGML (docbook) format? At first glance, it looks like a fairly simple sedscript could do ~90% of this, but "the devil is in the details" and I suspect getting it right might be fairly difficult. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from hub.org (hub.org [216.126.84.1]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id GAA26043 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 06:11:16 +1000 Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA43124; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 15:39:01 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from owner-techwriters@linuxchix.org) Received: by hub.org (bulk_mailer v1.5); Wed, 29 Sep 1999 15:38:45 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA42918 for techwriters-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 15:37:51 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from owner-techwriters@linuxchix.org) Received: (from cyrus@localhost) by hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA42893 for techwriters@hub.org; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 15:37:46 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from cyrus) Received: from munin.obbit.se (root@munin.obbit.se [194.165.245.6]) by hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA42834 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 15:37:21 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from roger@obbit.se) Received: from hugin.obbit.se (roger@hugin.obbit.se [194.165.245.5]) by munin.obbit.se (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id VAA03131 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:37:15 +0200 Received: from localhost (roger@localhost) by hugin.obbit.se (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id VAA04177 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:37:15 +0200 X-Authentication-Warning: hugin.obbit.se: roger owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:37:14 +0200 (CEST) From: Roger Abrahamsson To: techwriters@linuxchix.org Subject: Re: [oswg] LDP - formats supported In-Reply-To: <37F246FB.3CD29513@dkl.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-techwriters@linuxchix.org Reply-To: techwriters@linuxchix.org On Wed, 29 Sep 1999, Sandy Harris wrote: > P Jenner wrote: > > > > On Sun, 29 Aug 1999, {poet} wrote: > > > Personally The formats I think we should support are: > > > SGML (Docbook) > > > X/HTML (XHTML/HTML4) > > > Text > > > PDF > > > > Sounds sensible to provide all three on the web - SGML for changes > > and downloads, HTML for on-line viewing and ASCII text and PDF for > > printing. > There is one other format I think should be supported for printing, and that is postscript, as it is fast and easy to use from a command line interface. /Roger Abrahamsson From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id FAA17792 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 05:34:09 +1000 Received: (qmail 8024 invoked by uid 38); 25 Sep 1999 19:34:01 -0000 Resent-Date: 25 Sep 1999 19:34:01 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: gferg@hoop.timonium.sgi.com From: "Greg Ferguson" Message-Id: <9909251540.ZM10761@hoop.timonium.sgi.com> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 15:40:08 -0400 In-Reply-To: "Rob Fenwick" "Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd)" (Sep 25, 7:45pm) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: robf@asduk.com, ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org, Vladimir Vuksan Subject: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd) Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/557 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org On Sep 25, 7:45pm, Rob Fenwick wrote: > Subject: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd) > > It seems to me that LDP > > leadership is doing their own thing and not really paying any attention to > > the authors. > > I'm not a HOWTO author myself, so I doubt I can comment too > exclusively. > > However, I think you're being a little unfair, seeing that there's > been some changes at LDP leadership, and perhaps people are finding > their feet? :) Thanks Rob. I think that pretty much sums up the situation. We know there are still outstanding issues, and we intend to address them as quickly as possible. At least for Poet, myself and probably Tim as well, the last couple weeks have been "catch-up and quickly fix". Email was sent out to this effect (about the impending changes in the site, and the new team, etc).. We're getting there folks, bear with us, and thanks for being patient. Ferg -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id BAA24732 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 01:33:10 +1000 Received: (qmail 15544 invoked by uid 38); 29 Sep 1999 15:33:02 -0000 Resent-Date: 29 Sep 1999 15:33:02 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: tssarma@wilnetonline.net Message-ID: <37F222FB.A2B1F9B7@wilnetonline.net> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 20:02:27 +0530 From: Ramana Tadepalli Reply-To: tssarma@wilnetonline.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: robf@asduk.com, terry@albert.animats.net, ldp-discuss Subject: Farewell? Yes Final? Not sure - Ramana Tadepalli References: <37F1FDDA.11FE06F7@wilnetonline.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/669 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Mr. Fenwick, I am taking your advice. Unsubscription is in order as far as I am concerned. I shall only wait for replies to me mail to die out. > My suggestion regarding this whole business is just to wait a few > weeks to see how the technical developments, and the new core team > settle in. As to Mr. Terry I am only suggesting. I also mentioned that I am a new learner to LDP. Well if you think this is the right place pray continue........ Ramana -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from billahd.wilnetonline.net (mailserver.wilnetonline.net [202.164.96.2]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA24741 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 01:33:59 +1000 Received: from wilnetonline.net ([202.164.97.118]) by billahd.wilnetonline.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA4171; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:02:27 -0500 Message-ID: <37F222FB.A2B1F9B7@wilnetonline.net> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 20:02:27 +0530 From: Ramana Tadepalli Reply-To: tssarma@wilnetonline.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: robf@asduk.com, terry@albert.animats.net, ldp-discuss Subject: Farewell? Yes Final? Not sure - Ramana Tadepalli References: <37F1FDDA.11FE06F7@wilnetonline.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mr. Fenwick, I am taking your advice. Unsubscription is in order as far as I am concerned. I shall only wait for replies to me mail to die out. > My suggestion regarding this whole business is just to wait a few > weeks to see how the technical developments, and the new core team > settle in. As to Mr. Terry I am only suggesting. I also mentioned that I am a new learner to LDP. Well if you think this is the right place pray continue........ Ramana From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id DAA25153 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 03:00:21 +1000 Received: (qmail 15224 invoked by uid 38); 29 Sep 1999 16:59:14 -0000 Resent-Date: 29 Sep 1999 16:59:14 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: markk@cgipc.com Sender: markk@mail.cgipc.com Message-ID: <37F2456B.91D56D0A@cgipc.com> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:59:23 -0400 From: Mark Komarinski X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.5-15 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: robf@asduk.com CC: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Final Farewell?? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/673 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Rob Fenwick wrote: > > > Do authors not have any say in what > > policies and procedures the "core team" implements? > > Personally, and this is just my own opinion, I would say absolutely > not. > > Give the authors an LDP alias & a shell account as their 'reward', > and then run the LDP without 800 people trying to tell you what to do > would be my advice to the core team. > > Have the occasional referendum on big stuff, but otherwise, lead it > from the top, not the users. I have to agree with this, and is something I proposed 6-9 months ago. Figure out the licensing, figure out the distribution methods, figure out if you want to use LinuxDoc or DocBook, get it documented (see my HOWTO HOWTO) and then tell everyone else what the decisions are. If someone doesn't agree with it, then it's their fault for not volunteering for the core team. Just let us write documentation. That *is* what we're here for, right? -Mark -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Carlo Gavazzi IPC | Mark F. Komarinski, RHCE - Compat. Engineer| 176 Second Ave | markk@cgipc.com - www.cgipc.com | Waltham, MA 02451 USA | Ph: 781-290-4800 x138 Fx: 781-290-4810 | -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id GAA26361 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 06:47:53 +1000 Received: (qmail 4072 invoked by uid 38); 29 Sep 1999 20:46:41 -0000 Resent-Date: 29 Sep 1999 20:46:41 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: Hugo.van.der.Kooij@caiw.nl From: Hugo.van.der.Kooij@caiw.nl Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 22:46:24 +0200 (CEST) X-Sender: hvdkooij@bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org To: robf@asduk.com cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Final Farewell?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-URL: http://www.caiw.nl/~hvdkooij/ X-Loop: Hugo.van.der.Kooij@caiw.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/680 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org On Wed, 29 Sep 1999, Rob Fenwick wrote: > > Don't start to compare things that are irrelevant here. > > Oooooh! Well slap my thigh, and call me Sandra. Sandra, There is too much distance to slap anything. Hugo. -- Hugo van der Kooij; Oranje Nassaustraat 16; 3155 VJ Maasland hvdkooij@caiw.nl http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~hvdkooij/ -------------------------------------------------------------- Use of any of my email addresses for unsollicited (commercial) email is a clear intrusion of my privacy and illegal! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id IAA31082 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 08:51:53 +1000 Received: (qmail 7873 invoked by uid 38); 25 Sep 1999 22:51:42 -0000 Resent-Date: 25 Sep 1999 22:51:42 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: poet@linuxports.com Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 16:01:02 -0700 (PDT) From: "Mr. Poet" X-Sender: jd@crazypenguins.commandprompt.com To: Vladimir Vuksan cc: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org, ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org, recipient list not shown: ; Subject: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <72jpOD.A.56B.-HV73@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/560 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Hello, O.k. I am going to try and stop this right now. First CVS is under development and expected to working by mid-october. Second we are also working on a FTP infrastructure, which in fact already exists but does not have much bandwidth. We are also working on producing an online disccusion area plus licensing issues. We must remember that the core team is trying to fix the mega problems that existed from the past plus fix all the others that have arisen since then. It is not an issue of ignoring the authors, it is an issue of being patient. The core team has only really been in place for less than 30 days. Poet LinuxPorts - http://www.linuxports.com LDP - http://www.linuxdoc.org On Sat, 25 Sep 1999, Vladimir Vuksan wrote: > On Sat, 25 Sep 1999, Rob Fenwick wrote: > > > > I am glad end users are happy with the new site however I as an HOWTO > > > author am not happy with LDP. I have submitted some changes to my HOWTO > > > and was promised they would be uploaded on Wednesday. Well, they are not. > > > Maybe in about two months (the average time it takes from my experience) > > > they might. Would you call the a smashing success ? > > > > I'd say that's unrepresentative of the norm - let's not forget the > > major hassles they've had at LDP recently :) > > I am not sure what hassles you are referring to but my personal > hassle (and I know of at least dozen other people) has been going on for > past few months. It is also not something LDP leaders have been unaware > of. There has been quite a bit of discussion about it on linux-doc, > techwriters and also offers from individuals and organizations to help > out. For instance metalab has offered CVS repository for LDP authors so > that documents can be updated more quickly and efficiently. I am told that > they received no response to their offer. It seems to me that LDP > leadership is doing their own thing and not really paying any attention to > the authors. > > Vladimir > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id EAA04325 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 04:36:27 +1000 Received: (qmail 2423 invoked by uid 38); 26 Sep 1999 18:36:10 -0000 Resent-Date: 26 Sep 1999 18:36:10 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: guylhem@terram.oeil.qc.ca Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 18:21:06 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: Vladimir Vuksan Cc: Tim Bynum , "Mr. Poet" , ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: QC volunteers? (Was: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd)) Message-ID: <19990926182106.B1752@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=7JfCtLOvnd9MIVvH; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: ; from Vladimir Vuksan on Sat, Sep 25, 1999 at 01:28:09PM -0600 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/578 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Content-Length: 0 Lines: 60 --7JfCtLOvnd9MIVvH Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Sep 25, 1999 at 01:28:09PM -0600, Vladimir Vuksan wrote: > I do usually look on the bright side but after you spend a lot of our > updating, editing your documentations and after never receiving any > response from the LDP maintainers and after waiting two months to have a > HOWTO commited and had promises broken I think I have to right to > be critical. You have ; I'll try to explain how HOWTOs should be submitted now :=20 any new HOWTO or updated HOWTO *must* be sent to ldp-submit ml. On this list, many ppl receive them, therefore delivery problems are avoided. If Tim receive no negative feedback by QC, he can include them ; if they aren't processed say 1 week later, our webmasters will add a copy to the 'incoming' section of linuxdoc.org (Joshua, could you add a link on the main page ?) > Writing documentation is not easy and I certainly could find better uses > for my time if I will be treated like dirt. We are trying to treat authors the best we can, however the QC is starting slowly : there's only 1 member in the QC team !!!! People who would like to be part of the QC team should subscribe to ldp-submit@lists.linuxdoc.org (mail ldp-submit-request). Submitted documents should be reread to look for mistakes, typos... --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Save East Timor: http://altern.org/spoirier/timor.html http://www.pst-timor= .org --7JfCtLOvnd9MIVvH Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN+5H8t+QeWug/qfFAQG8egP/WRnv7XuOSGS5yfspvzmYiYfFhLW7DG9n p/OPU9LRSTxLPnq7sxejN1CB6yPuhVfAIbG0lRnCvRtBGGXh2YWZq6o/zcpuhpaC YokinrfmsaB+0EcY8w+FO8myFqQ9E7yJog67FzdyJthQq/02ktrrUX29zKx2dTdh D6mmOIANcFI= =L9it -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --7JfCtLOvnd9MIVvH-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id HAA12232 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 07:03:49 +1000 Received: (qmail 32431 invoked by uid 38); 27 Sep 1999 21:00:34 -0000 Resent-Date: 27 Sep 1999 21:00:34 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: guylhem@terram.oeil.qc.ca Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 21:34:32 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: Vladimir Vuksan Cc: LDP discuss Subject: Re: QC volunteers? (Was: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd)) Message-ID: <19990927213432.A3665@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: <19990927010258.A4503@victis.oeil.qc.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=SLDf9lqlvOQaIe6s; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: ; from Vladimir Vuksan on Mon, Sep 27, 1999 at 08:17:23AM -0600 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/617 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org --SLDf9lqlvOQaIe6s Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Sep 27, 1999 at 08:17:23AM -0600, Vladimir Vuksan wrote: > > > That sounds great but how do I pull my documents off LDP ?=20 > >=20 > > Do you want to remove your documents from the LDP ? >=20 > Yes I would like to remove my documents from LDP. Then please give us a list, we'll remove them and : - try to find other volunteers to rewrite these documents from scratch if you are the original author - update from previous version if you are a maintainer With this example, I think we really need a special clause to the manifesto to leave some rights to the LDP if an author want to take his document off :-( --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Save East Timor: http://altern.org/spoirier/timor.html http://www.pst-timor= .org --SLDf9lqlvOQaIe6s Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN+/GyN+QeWug/qfFAQEtcQQAj9i32Fr/TjQp1OYP2SyT3enhD3Qml2PY shY6dkbFeH2f/DFFnlb/YQV8ugv/BoHqGWh3Rq4FAsrLrev3ySrwj277J8ruT7GU XVj8XZTgYixqtrZW+ALyyG0b39cf3//4sBFWUNvv1QYbHJm1blqYafsdKPkLk1oZ 7HbL5oYl/ac= =Oq3T -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --SLDf9lqlvOQaIe6s-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id TAA15866 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 19:58:32 +1000 Received: (qmail 761 invoked by uid 38); 28 Sep 1999 09:58:20 -0000 Resent-Date: 28 Sep 1999 09:58:20 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: mok@imsb.au.dk Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:55:48 +0200 (CEST) From: Morten Kjeldgaard To: Vladimir Vuksan cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Reasons for wanting to remove my documents In-Reply-To: <37EFF2FF.73ABB135@cs.unm.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/632 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org On Mon, 27 Sep 1999, Vladimir Vuksan wrote: > with an extremely long delay. One of the updates during the summer took > about two months. On numerous occasions I sent e-mail to the Tim (the > howto maintainer) asking him what was the status of the update or > whether there were any problems with the document. I never received a > single response. Most of my documentation changes fairly often, > especially Cable Modem mini-HOWTO so having updates every two months is > simply not acceptable. I've had pretty much the same expericence with our mini-HOWTO (RedHat-CD). The first version of the HOWTO was submitted 980926. On 981025, I submitted it again, since nothing had happened. I don't remember when it appeared at the LDP, but by then I had figured out that updates were very s l o w, so I put a URL in the HOWTO so people could fetch the latest version of the document. Perhaps you could do the same. I've tried to update the LDP version of the document many times, but the version still reads Dec. 27. 1998. I sent letters to Tim on 981227, 990111, 990426: no replies. I wrote to the former LDP leader Gregh Hanskins on 990126 and 990512, and got friendly and quick response, but he was apparently unable to do anything. I was very pleased to see the reorganization of the LDP (the website looks great), and it now seems that things are moving in the right direction. However, I was surprised to see that Tim Bynum is still responsible for the HOWTOs... It's fair enough to be busy, but then a person should step back. The authors of HOWTOs are _also_ busy, and getting updates in quickly saves everybody time. I have recently sent the newest version (1.29) again to the ldp-submit list. I am really looking forward to see what will happen now. > discovered that there were a lot of people having the very same problem, > unresponsivness of the LDP team. This has made me really bitter. I think you should give the new LDP team a chance to get organized, and see how things are going before you go to such drastic steps as pulling your document out of the LDP. By doing so, you are really only hurting the Linux community. Please don't! > delay and two of my updates disappeared. I have also learned that > metalab has offered to host a CVS server for LDP and had the server set > up but LDP leadership declined the offer, why I have no idea but that If this is correct, that is certainly a _very_ poor decision that needs to be reconsidered. Using CVS, authors could save time answering emails from people, and spend it fixing bugs and updating the documentation. /Morten --- Morten Kjeldgaard | Phone : +45 89 42 50 26 Institute of Molecular and Structural Biology | Fax : +45 86 12 31 78 Aarhus University | Home : +45 86 18 81 80 Gustav Wieds Vej 10 C, DK-8000 Aarhus C, Denmark | icq : 27224900 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id AAA17021 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 00:14:51 +1000 Received: (qmail 28630 invoked by uid 38); 28 Sep 1999 14:12:43 -0000 Resent-Date: 28 Sep 1999 14:12:43 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: pjones@metalab.unc.edu X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: pjones owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 10:12:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul Jones X-Sender: pjones@titan.oit.unc.edu To: Vladimir Vuksan cc: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org, ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: CVS@metalab: (was Reasons for wanting to remove my documents) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/634 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org We (actually Jonathan Magid) put up CVS on Metalab a few weeks back based on Mr. Poet's posting on the OSWG and on discussion on the LDP lists. I think I announced that to the list at the time. It's there if you need or want to use it on MetaLab. Since I'm not up to speed on the QC portion of the LDP planning, I can't really say whether it's better to use CVS on our site or on another one. We're glad to install and support whatever software will make the work of LDP authors easier. Just let us know. ========================================================================== Paul Jones "We must protect our precious bodily fluids!" General Jack D Ripper http://MetaLab.unc.edu/pjones/ at the Site Formerly Known As SunSITE.unc.edu pjones@MetaLab.unc.edu voice: (919) 962-7600 fax: (919) 962-8071 =========================================================================== -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id EAA18047 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 04:01:05 +1000 Received: (qmail 22125 invoked by uid 38); 28 Sep 1999 17:53:55 -0000 Resent-Date: 28 Sep 1999 17:53:55 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: poet@linuxports.com Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:03:39 -0700 (PDT) From: "Mr. Poet" X-Sender: jd@crazypenguins.commandprompt.com To: Vladimir Vuksan cc: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org, ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org, recipient list not shown: ; Subject: Re: Reasons for wanting to remove my documents In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/637 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > > Unfortunately the impression I got was that the new LDP has a gotten the > focus of LDP completely wrong. Instead of focusing on the documentation > aspect of the project by providing the best documentation possible e.g. > making the life of the authors easier LDP chooses to concentrate on > completely superficial things such as the graphic layout of the web site. I am afraid that this is entirely not true, please remember that just because "I" say something, this does not reflect the entire team. It only reflects what I am responsible for. I am responible for the Website, and the website currently is the most visible part of the LDP. Therefore I can see why that would be the impression. However I assure you that we are in constant cotact about the other issues that have been raised about the LDP. I don't know if this will help but these are the things that I am currently working on. In Progess: Private Discussion: Area for authors only (online web based) This will include an area for suggestions/comments so that they archived and implemented if required. Links page: Changing the Links page so that it it separate pages instead of 1 big page. Online Submit: The ability to automatically submit your SGML document write into the LDP archives for publishing. This is not a live submit, but it is better than it was. Pending: FTP Access: I have offered FTP access to every author, but I am awaiting approval for this. GUY: I know he is working on CVS as is TIM GREG: Is working on helping with some of the website issues Anyway I hope this helps a little bit. Poet > The CVS we are told will be up in about three weeks while an existing CVS > site (metalab) is turned down. So I feel there is a pattern already > showing and based on my previous experience I feel that there is a high > probability history will repeat itself. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id PAA21661 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 15:21:02 +1000 Received: (qmail 13049 invoked by uid 38); 29 Sep 1999 05:20:44 -0000 Resent-Date: 29 Sep 1999 05:20:44 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: poet@linuxports.com Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 22:30:37 -0700 (PDT) From: "Mr. Poet" X-Sender: jd@crazypenguins.commandprompt.com To: Vladimir Vuksan cc: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org, ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org, recipient list not shown: ; Subject: Re: QC volunteers? (Was: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/654 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org If you can set up a CVS server and all the scripts in a day then why haven't you? I have a box with a 512k dedicated that you can have access to right now... Just tell me what you need to get CVS up and running. Poet LinuxPorts - http://www.linuxports.com LDP - http://www.linuxdoc.org On Tue, 28 Sep 1999, Vladimir Vuksan wrote: > On Tue, 28 Sep 1999, David Lawyer wrote: > > > We don't have to remove them unless we want to. This is because the > > license permits free distribution and it can't be revoked except by legal > > means such as a court order or by a termination clause in the license. > > (There's no termination clause in these, I've checked). The license is a > > contract which in this case is between the author and the LDP (or between > > the author and Tim Bynum if you want to argue that the LDP is not a legal > > entity). Now anyone who has a copy may make copies and give them away. > > That's what we're (or Tim) is doing by putting it at Metalab. > > The reason why I have requested removal of the documents is that among > other things the documents are outdated and I hate having outdated > documents laying around. If that is not an option than at least I would > request that you remove my e-mail address from the document since I don't > want to get any more e-mails about issues I have already addressed which I > get these days courteousy of LDP. I have submitted two updates > to the Cable Modem mini-HOWTO (last version on LDP site is date June 22nd) > and I have neither the patience or the time to play the blame game with > Tim or Guylhem about where the documents are and when they will finally > institute a decent update system. > > > However, the author is not required to maintain it (unless he agreed to > > do so in the license which he didn't). Can someone else maintain it? > > They could if the license said anyone could modify it. The license in > > these docs is exactly the same license that Tim Bynum uses for his > > HOWTO-INDEX (which he wrote). The paragraph on "derivative works" says > > that derivative works must use the same license (Tim called it a > > "copyright notice"). This seems to imply that permission to make derived > > works has been granted even though it doesn't state this explicitly. > > > > The author can always modify his own work and put it under another license. > > Anyway, I plead with Vladimir Vuksan to reconsider. I've suffered > > delays in the past up to 2 months but recently my stuff got to Metalab in > > only a few days. > > I am really sceptical. I don't want to be left to Tim's mercy anymore. I > want to be able to update my own documents, if that is not possible sorry > I am out of here and no middle of October is not a good answer since I can > set up a CVS server and all the necessary LDP scripts in about a day. LDP > leadership obviously has other priorities. > > Vladimir > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id EAA04350 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 04:38:04 +1000 Received: (qmail 3273 invoked by uid 38); 26 Sep 1999 18:36:44 -0000 Resent-Date: 26 Sep 1999 18:36:44 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: guylhem@terram.oeil.qc.ca Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 18:26:22 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: Andres Seco Hernandez Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Current working on diald howto Message-ID: <19990926182622.D1752@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: <19990926023136.B2864@virgo> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="IpbVkmxF4tDyP/Kb"; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <19990926023136.B2864@virgo>; from Andres Seco Hernandez on Sun, Sep 26, 1999 at 02:31:36AM +0200 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/580 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Content-Length: 0 Lines: 46 --IpbVkmxF4tDyP/Kb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Sep 26, 1999 at 02:31:36AM +0200, Andres Seco Hernandez wrote: > Hi all. Hi, > If you are working in the diald howto, please, tell me, and i could > help you with some of my suggestions. I think nobody is working on it. > If nobody is working on it, i want to tell you that in some weeks i will > give you the new updated diald howto. When it will be ready, please send it to ldp-submit ml. --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Save East Timor: http://altern.org/spoirier/timor.html http://www.pst-timor= .org --IpbVkmxF4tDyP/Kb Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN+5JLt+QeWug/qfFAQHBaQP9G8/waVDjIm+JqU+X9f1wwmEJBZyx1WvK 1t+9oI/SYlGgeamroRwEOZfPKUaZY+1sF+UxWj7tjFNBFhAS0KAjafYWkQCKoWTu tkOOoZ13adWvJX8hLyI9ippkGe0vnps+x0mjYbu5YxJqjf5F/WpbY0KYMdaVRsYm ViumqDIA1lo= =+WtF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --IpbVkmxF4tDyP/Kb-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id FAA04721 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 05:53:42 +1000 Received: (qmail 22700 invoked by uid 38); 26 Sep 1999 19:53:35 -0000 Resent-Date: 26 Sep 1999 19:53:35 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: apharris@burrito.onshore.com Sender: apharris@burrito.onshore.com To: C Polisher Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Treatment (Was Re: Debian Doc Project and LDP) References: <37EE6A4D.DD5CE389@ns.net> From: Adam Di Carlo Date: 26 Sep 1999 15:53:45 -0400 In-Reply-To: C Polisher's message of "Sun, 26 Sep 1999 11:47:41 -0700" Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.070096 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.96) Emacs/20.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/584 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Content-Length: 0 Lines: 16 C Polisher writes: > When informational items are classified by > _treatment_, searchers can quickly locate > desired information. Treatment would be an > element explaining the type of coverage > that the material provides, picked from a > list. Very interesting idea. I wonder how it would fit in with the DC entity set. BTW, anyone know some good RDF and DC mail lists to subscribe to? -- .....Adam Di Carlo....adam@onShore.com..... -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id AAA17171 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 00:44:09 +1000 Received: (qmail 16561 invoked by uid 38); 28 Sep 1999 14:24:50 -0000 Resent-Date: 28 Sep 1999 14:24:50 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: djb@redhat.com Message-Id: <199909281424.KAA01396@chef.meridian.redhat.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 To: "David Wheeler" cc: guylhem@oeil.qc.ca, ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd) In-reply-to: <990927161614.ZM16521@aphrodite.csed.ida.org> from "David Wheeler" on Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:16:14 EDT. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 10:24:26 -0400 From: Donnie Barnes Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/635 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > Donnie Barnes wrote: > >I suppose we should identify problems with the current manifesto before > >re-writing it. Some here have problems with it, others (like myself) > >like the current one. David Wheeler wrote: > The current "license" is total garbage. As Linux becomes more widely > used, you'd better figure out how to make an accurate license, set of > licenses, or criteria for a license. Otherwise people will line up > to sue or misuse you. How is it garbage? Let me count the ways: Pardon me, but you seem to have the word "manifesto" confused with "license". AFAIK there is *no* LDP "license", and it is my goal to keep it that way. Well, there certainly can be a suggested one, but I don't want any required one. David Wheeler wrote: > 1. Most seriously, the current license does NOT permit others to > distribute unchanged documents, even though that seems to be > the point of the project. That's stupid, and needs fixing. > Think that's just a minor legal nit and wouldn't be exploited? You're naive. > The U.S. in particular is lawsuit-happy. Are you talking to me? Because if you are, you're basing your end of the conversation on all kinds of assumptions that appear to be wrong. I'll just delete the rest of your "points" and you can argue them with someone else. The don't appear valid to argue with anyone since there is no standard LDP license covering all works. I license my documents, you license yours. If you have a problem with a license on a document of *mine*, then we'll talk. But nothing you quoted came off a document of mine. David Wheeler wrote: > Most people don't want to write licenses, and they're hard to get right. > At least provide a default" license & guidelines for minimum acceptability. > I'd rather write code & docs, not licenses. Again, that's fine with me. The "manifesto" includes guidelines for minimum acceptability. There are already plenty of licenses out there that meet those for you to choose from. You can write your own if you want. This is exactly the situation I *like*. If the LDP wants to have a suggested license (or a set of them), that's fine to. What I don't want is the LDP to REQUIRE A PARTICULAR license. > Mr. Poet wrote: > >Personally I don't care what license you use, I just think that if you > >drop maintainership of a document that we (THE LDP) have the > >right to change the license. The copyright info stays, but the license > >itself can change. David Wheeler wrote: > If _that's_ what you want, then you must say so in a license. > Otherwise, the author has the right to never update a document again. > Which indeed is what's happening. Whoa! Watch your quoting, pal. I didn't write any of the above, but your quoting implies that I did. (I inserted the "...wrote:" stuff to clear that up.) --Donnie -- Donnie Barnes http://www.donniebarnes.com djb@donniebarnes.com "Bah." Challenge Diversity. Ignore People. Live Life. Use Linux. 879. V. Bats, when dipped in batter and deep fried, still taste pretty bad. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id CAA24900 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 02:06:48 +1000 Received: (qmail 2453 invoked by uid 38); 29 Sep 1999 16:06:33 -0000 Resent-Date: 29 Sep 1999 16:06:33 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: vern@zebra.alphacdc.com Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:03:01 -0600 Message-Id: <199909291603.KVH05412@zebra.alphacdc.com> From: Vern Hoxie To: ldp-submit@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Submissions and comments Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/670 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org On Tue, 28 Sep 1999, Alessandro Rubini wrote: > BTW: how many people are reading LDP documents posted to ldp-submit? I would if I knew what format they are in. They come to me on my plain text display as gobally-gook. What tar ball do I need to decipher them? Please don't reference an "*.rpm"! Shouldn't the discussions be on ldp-discuss instead of ldp-submit? vern -- Vernon C. Hoxie vern@zebra.alphacdc.com 3975 W. 29th Ave. uucp: 303-455-2670 Denver, Colo., 80212 voice: 303-477-1780 What wise men do in the beginning, fools do in the end. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id RAA29442 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 17:10:56 +1000 Received: (qmail 23238 invoked by uid 38); 30 Sep 1999 07:10:49 -0000 Resent-Date: 30 Sep 1999 07:10:49 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: bf347@lafn.org Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 00:10:32 -0700 Message-Id: <199909300710.AA11830@lafn.org> From: bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer) To: JKoch@mcp.com Subject: RE: QC volunteers? (Was: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revisi Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Reply-To: bf347@lafn.org Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/685 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Jeff Koch wrote: >From the LDP Manifesto page: >"Any translation or derived work must be approved by the author in writing >before distribution." > This has been taken out of context. The previous paragraph states: "Here is a ``boilerplate license'' you *may* apply to your work." Thus it only applies to authors who have copied it into their work. Using grep, I can't find a single HOWTO that has used it (as of a few months ago). Thus it is not LDP policy nor does it apply to any HOWTOs that I have on my PC and your comments below are based on a false premise. >In this case, distribution could mean electronic distribution - which means >the LDP wouldn't have the right to post a derived work without the author's >permission. Of course, since the LDP doesn't have a consistent license, >there's no telling which pieces of the LDP could, or couldn't, be updated - >unless you want to examine each piece separately. Some of the more vocal >people on this list have the position that a consistent license would make >it more difficult to work with the LDP. > >The fact this topic of conversation is even brought up makes me think >differently. After all, if the overall goal of the LDP is to provide >high-quality, free information, then the ability to update and maintain >content easily, and without fear of legal action, is of utmost importance. >The LDP needs to put rules in place to ensure this happens. If authors don't >want to play by whatever rules the LDP comes up with, then they should post >their material elsewhere. > >Jeff Koch > > >-- >To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org >with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org > > > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id VAA30960 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:47:09 +1000 Received: (qmail 10348 invoked by uid 38); 30 Sep 1999 11:46:53 -0000 Resent-Date: 30 Sep 1999 11:46:53 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: guylhem@terram.oeil.qc.ca Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 01:12:43 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: Morten Kjeldgaard Cc: Vladimir Vuksan , ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Reasons for wanting to remove my documents Message-ID: <19990929011243.D1113@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: <37EFF2FF.73ABB135@cs.unm.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=XvKFcGCOAo53UbWW; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: ; from Morten Kjeldgaard on Tue, Sep 28, 1999 at 11:55:48AM +0200 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/692 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org --XvKFcGCOAo53UbWW Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Sep 28, 1999 at 11:55:48AM +0200, Morten Kjeldgaard wrote: > I have recently sent the newest version (1.29) again to the ldp-submit > list. I am really looking forward to see what will happen now. If any problem happen, we'll still have the document : we are at least 4 subscribers. So any mail sent to this list will never be lost, I personally archive them on my machine, and I think other subscribers do the same. If in 2 weeks nothing happened, mail me, I'll find back the HOWTO and ask a "quick integration" :-) --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Save East Timor: http://altern.org/spoirier/timor.html http://www.pst-timor= .org --XvKFcGCOAo53UbWW Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN/FLa9+QeWug/qfFAQG2WgP+OwuobrBoNHOI+xWjPu4yiCbBI6oz81zr kmmjroe1w7mR9nEOp8fQ1AVds+wZIMPHrmqHkGDm4775FcNwiQIq+fS/uQY89naS xzJEN+FSptaoHkVM4mjdZbH2K0eDMa8KOxDKQ6mz1/uLo8e97aG4ZoibqMH5GoSu pDOGDpGz8JQ= =WZXC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --XvKFcGCOAo53UbWW-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id MAA17964 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:45:07 +1100 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id MAA16363 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:45:03 +1100 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) id JAA22366 for ldp-l-list; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:36:38 +0800 (WST) X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from lacrosse.redhat.com (IDENT:ed@lacrosse.redhat.com [207.175.42.154]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA22358; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:36:22 +0800 (WST) Received: (from ed@localhost) by lacrosse.redhat.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA10583; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 20:36:17 -0500 To: Terry Dawson Cc: Lars Wirzenius , ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: LDP leadership References: <19990210071330.B19944@linux.org.au> Reply-To: "Edward C. Bailey" From: "Edward C. Bailey" Date: 09 Feb 1999 20:36:17 -0500 In-Reply-To: Terry Dawson's message of "Wed, 10 Feb 1999 07:13:30 +0800" Message-ID: Lines: 42 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Terry" == Terry Dawson writes: Terry> On Tue, Feb 09, 1999 at 11:11:40PM +0200, Lars Wirzenius wrote: >> * Concentrate on the LDP *process*: recruiting authors; formatting >> manuscripts into all the various formats we wish to support; publishing >> them; inviting and processing feedback; co-ordinating translations, >> hardcopy publishing, and publicity. Terry> Making these processes transparent to prospective recruits will be Terry> critically important to address the perception issue. I've spent Terry> some considerable personal effort over the past year or so trying to Terry> recruit LDP authors with little success. The perceptions I'm finding Terry> of the LDP are that we expect a very high standard of knowledge and Terry> most people don't feel they qualify, and that we're disorganised and Terry> it is difficult to work out what actually needs documenting. I hope y'all won't mind me speaking as an interested outsider. It seems to me that some sort of "mentoring" program might help get prospective authors over the hump by giving them some editorial/administrative/emotional support while they bring a new HOWTO to life: o Editorial support -- Helping the prospective author figure out what to document, suggesting different approaches, and providing some gentle feedback before the HOWTO first sees the light of day. o Administrative support -- Assisting the prospective author through the steps required to get their HOWTO "out there". (This aspect of the mentoring process will probably be easier, given Lars' thoughts on streamlining the process.) o Emotional support -- Working with the prospective author to make sure they don't get overwhelmed by the process of documenting complex technical concepts. If this kind of support became available, I think it might make the idea of becoming an LDP author a little less scary to a great many people... -- Ed Bailey Red Hat Software, Inc. http://www.redhat.com/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id MAA17917 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:36:37 +1100 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id MAA16343 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:36:29 +1100 Received: from lacrosse.redhat.com (IDENT:ed@lacrosse.redhat.com [207.175.42.154]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA22358; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:36:22 +0800 (WST) Received: (from ed@localhost) by lacrosse.redhat.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA10583; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 20:36:17 -0500 To: Terry Dawson Cc: Lars Wirzenius , ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: LDP leadership References: <19990210071330.B19944@linux.org.au> Reply-To: "Edward C. Bailey" From: "Edward C. Bailey" Date: 09 Feb 1999 20:36:17 -0500 In-Reply-To: Terry Dawson's message of "Wed, 10 Feb 1999 07:13:30 +0800" Message-ID: Lines: 42 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.3 >>>>> "Terry" == Terry Dawson writes: Terry> On Tue, Feb 09, 1999 at 11:11:40PM +0200, Lars Wirzenius wrote: >> * Concentrate on the LDP *process*: recruiting authors; formatting >> manuscripts into all the various formats we wish to support; publishing >> them; inviting and processing feedback; co-ordinating translations, >> hardcopy publishing, and publicity. Terry> Making these processes transparent to prospective recruits will be Terry> critically important to address the perception issue. I've spent Terry> some considerable personal effort over the past year or so trying to Terry> recruit LDP authors with little success. The perceptions I'm finding Terry> of the LDP are that we expect a very high standard of knowledge and Terry> most people don't feel they qualify, and that we're disorganised and Terry> it is difficult to work out what actually needs documenting. I hope y'all won't mind me speaking as an interested outsider. It seems to me that some sort of "mentoring" program might help get prospective authors over the hump by giving them some editorial/administrative/emotional support while they bring a new HOWTO to life: o Editorial support -- Helping the prospective author figure out what to document, suggesting different approaches, and providing some gentle feedback before the HOWTO first sees the light of day. o Administrative support -- Assisting the prospective author through the steps required to get their HOWTO "out there". (This aspect of the mentoring process will probably be easier, given Lars' thoughts on streamlining the process.) o Emotional support -- Working with the prospective author to make sure they don't get overwhelmed by the process of documenting complex technical concepts. If this kind of support became available, I think it might make the idea of becoming an LDP author a little less scary to a great many people... -- Ed Bailey Red Hat Software, Inc. http://www.redhat.com/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA04682 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 01:10:09 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA31410 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 01:10:05 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id WAA19690 for ldp-l-list; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 22:36:44 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from raje.ks-t.no (raje.ks-t.no [193.71.171.194]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id WAA19686 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 22:36:39 +0800 Received: from stanga.ks-t.no (unverified) by raje.ks-t.no (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id for ; on, 02 jun 1999 16:22:10 +0200 Received: from online.no (pc130.ks-t.no [193.71.169.130]) by stanga.ks-t.no with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id KW4GV0JN; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 16:25:18 +0200 Message-Id: <37554011.C1B0DF24@online.no> Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 16:30:41 +0200 From: Stein Gjoen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: public humiliation References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Tim - HOWTO Coordinator wrote: > > David, > > Your HOWTOs got lost in the shuffle between metalab and me. This has been my experience too, for 15 montyhs; which is the reason I am joining in here. > If you have a problem with me, I'd appreciate you not whaling on me on the > list. Sure, I can take the verbal abuse, but it doesn't help matters Well, here we are at the core of the matter: getting response. I and others have CC-ed to this list to make sure there is a record of the fact we have tried to contact you as responses have in the past been sorely missing. Much seems to have gone missing. > much. We're trying to work together to correct problems, not stir up > issues of a personal nature which I feel for one is unfair and secondly > uncalled for. Generally the tone leads to hostility which some folks feel Although I believe I have restrained myself it has been hugely frustrating in the past, getting multiple corrections for way out of date HOWTOs. Getting no replies to mail and hardly no signs of life has made annoyed at times. ESR claims egoboosts from seeing ones name on the net is a driving force. Personally I feel that is overstated but I can see the problem of being blamed for not updating ones work can cause irritation and negative feelings. My HOWTO has not earned my much directly but indirectly it was part of why I got my current job, something I am not alone about in the open world. Lack of updates reflect negatively and can cost credibility. > is necessary to jump on the band wagon. When I say unfair I'm not just > speaking of myself, I would think the same if someone else were in my > shoes. For me to turn to the list everytime someone sent me sgml source > that wouldn't compile cleanly and begin ranting about it as a show of > public humiliation just wouldn't work and would turn folks away. Instead > I choose to either correct the problems myself (or at least do what I can) > or send back suggestions/comments on what needs to be done. Even if it's > just changing the format of , or the like. Many fall into > this category, not excluding you. Something very simple, but certainly > not worth me getting upset about and then turning it to the list. All it takes is a sign of life, just a oneliner saying you have received it is all it takes as far as I am concerned. It is when I do not see any activity from you, neither on the net, nor in mail nor in this mailinglist I get unsure if I got through. > I've offered other alternatives in getting things to me to expedite > things, but they generally fall on deaf ears. It seems that the fact that > things were not going good for a while is all that matters and unless > someone else takes over it's just not good enough or will not get better > and this just simply isn't the case. > > I'm doing a lot (a lot more than folks know or seem to care about), but > this just comes with the territory and that's fine. If it flames and > reprimands (sp?) that I deserve then keep them coming, but keep them off > the list, it's just not the place. I *can* read folks. ;) Should they > continue on then I suppose I will just continue on as I have and will let > them fall by the way side and I will continue to try to make things > better, but I won't get into a grand discussion on the list. Why not take the same approach as Alan Cox and keep a web diary? That way everyone can see progress takes place. Add in the TODOs and we feel reassured you are on the ball. > I accept the fact that they were late, but it's not as though you were > singled out or that nothing had been updated, plenty of other HOWTOs have > been re-distributed to the outside world. I am nearly exuberant that my Multi Disk HOWTO now has been updated, just in time for the new Debian release to be compiled up. Regards, Stein Gjoen From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from doughnut.remcomp.fr (alpha-dummy.remcomp.fr [194.51.30.245]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id EAA16619 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 04:26:06 +1000 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by lmm.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with UUCP id TAA18459; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 19:40:54 +0200 Received: by barberouge via sendmail with stdio id for sgjoen@mail.nyx.net; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 13:55:23 -0100 (GMT+1) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #1 built 1999-Jan-23) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 13:55:23 -0100 From: Guylhem Aznar To: Terry Dawson Cc: Stein Gjoen , LDP Subject: Re: Software-RAID-HOWTO Message-ID: <19990407135523.B1306@barberouge.linux.lmm.com> References: <3709DDA5.BA5A1003@mail.nyx.net> <19990407004240.A3078@barberouge.linux.lmm.com> <19990407135427.A12460@albert.aapra.org.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990407135427.A12460@albert.aapra.org.au>; from Terry Dawson on Wed, Apr 07, 1999 at 01:54:27PM +1000 On Wed, Apr 07, 1999 at 01:54:27PM +1000, Terry Dawson wrote: > Will you be reading/processing the linux-howto inbox too? I'm sorry I don't think I can access it. I have just created linux-howto@barberouge.linux.lmm.com on my home machine. Please tell any new version/new howto should be sent to this adress, in SGML format, bzip2'ed (I'm working on a script to check&upload the howtos so the adress may change soon). But where should I put the howtos on the primary site ? (login + passwd welcome :-) -- ____/| "Letting people bear arms is letting them kill our children" \ o.O| Enlever rrremovethis / Remove rrremovethis =(_)= Salut / Best regards \u/ Guylhem AZNAR From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA16735 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 04:48:04 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA20694 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 04:48:00 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id CAA01152 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 02:28:14 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from doughnut.remcomp.fr (alpha-dummy.remcomp.fr [194.51.30.245]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id CAA01147 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 02:27:49 +0800 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by lmm.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with UUCP id TAA18459; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 19:40:54 +0200 Received: by barberouge via sendmail with stdio id for sgjoen@mail.nyx.net; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 13:55:23 -0100 (GMT+1) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #1 built 1999-Jan-23) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 13:55:23 -0100 From: Guylhem Aznar To: Terry Dawson Cc: Stein Gjoen , LDP Subject: Re: Software-RAID-HOWTO Message-ID: <19990407135523.B1306@barberouge.linux.lmm.com> References: <3709DDA5.BA5A1003@mail.nyx.net> <19990407004240.A3078@barberouge.linux.lmm.com> <19990407135427.A12460@albert.aapra.org.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990407135427.A12460@albert.aapra.org.au>; from Terry Dawson on Wed, Apr 07, 1999 at 01:54:27PM +1000 Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On Wed, Apr 07, 1999 at 01:54:27PM +1000, Terry Dawson wrote: > Will you be reading/processing the linux-howto inbox too? I'm sorry I don't think I can access it. I have just created linux-howto@barberouge.linux.lmm.com on my home machine. Please tell any new version/new howto should be sent to this adress, in SGML format, bzip2'ed (I'm working on a script to check&upload the howtos so the adress may change soon). But where should I put the howtos on the primary site ? (login + passwd welcome :-) -- ____/| "Letting people bear arms is letting them kill our children" \ o.O| Enlever rrremovethis / Remove rrremovethis =(_)= Salut / Best regards \u/ Guylhem AZNAR From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from smtp1.free.fr (root@smtp1.free.fr [212.27.32.5]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA29165 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 02:20:59 +1000 Received: from victis.oeil.qc.ca (toulouse-59-175.dial.proxad.net [212.27.59.175]) by smtp1.free.fr (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id SAA18966; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 18:20:51 +0200 Received: from guylhem by victis.oeil.qc.ca with local (Exim 3.02 #3) id 11GJsK-0000D4-00; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 12:20:20 +0200 Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 12:20:20 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: Terry Dawson Cc: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: LDP - New Direction Message-ID: <19990816122020.B790@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: <19990816110652.A24693@albert.animats.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <19990816110652.A24693@albert.animats.net>; from Terry Dawson on Mon, Aug 16, 1999 at 11:06:52AM +1000 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by albert.animats.net id CAA29165 On Mon, Aug 16, 1999 at 11:06:52AM +1000, Terry Dawson wrote: > The LDP license issue has been thrashed to death on numerous occasions. Maybe the DGPL will fix many problems? > own reasons and are completely within their right to do so. You impose > a standard LDP license at the risk of losing the right to include a > number of existing documents and of excluding others. I will not impose any license, just recommand the new "common" license for new documents. > I don't for a minute believe we should relax our documentation standards. > I believe that standardised document structure is critical to the LDP > in terms of its value to the community. I do think that we should be careful > not to impose even more restrictive criterion if we want to encourage authors > to participate voluntarily. Neither do I, we should just keep a standard and change it (to docbook in the future) when we'll have scripts to move documents from one standard to the other without any human interaction. > What we need are people with solutions to problems, not people to tell > us how we should go about looking for solutions. I try my best to solve current problems. I will not be immediate, but I hope authors feel the situation is improving. -- Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Anywhere/Partout: guylhem-pager \@/ oeil.qc.ca From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA29237 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 02:34:09 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA12689 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 02:34:05 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id AAA24866 for ldp-l-list; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 00:21:09 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from smtp1.free.fr (root@smtp1.free.fr [212.27.32.5]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA24862 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 00:21:04 +0800 Received: from victis.oeil.qc.ca (toulouse-59-175.dial.proxad.net [212.27.59.175]) by smtp1.free.fr (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id SAA18966; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 18:20:51 +0200 Received: from guylhem by victis.oeil.qc.ca with local (Exim 3.02 #3) id 11GJsK-0000D4-00; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 12:20:20 +0200 Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 12:20:20 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: Terry Dawson Cc: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: LDP - New Direction Message-ID: <19990816122020.B790@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: <19990816110652.A24693@albert.animats.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <19990816110652.A24693@albert.animats.net>; from Terry Dawson on Mon, Aug 16, 1999 at 11:06:52AM +1000 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by digital.linux.org.au id AAA24863 Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au X-Loop: ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On Mon, Aug 16, 1999 at 11:06:52AM +1000, Terry Dawson wrote: > The LDP license issue has been thrashed to death on numerous occasions. Maybe the DGPL will fix many problems? > own reasons and are completely within their right to do so. You impose > a standard LDP license at the risk of losing the right to include a > number of existing documents and of excluding others. I will not impose any license, just recommand the new "common" license for new documents. > I don't for a minute believe we should relax our documentation standards. > I believe that standardised document structure is critical to the LDP > in terms of its value to the community. I do think that we should be careful > not to impose even more restrictive criterion if we want to encourage authors > to participate voluntarily. Neither do I, we should just keep a standard and change it (to docbook in the future) when we'll have scripts to move documents from one standard to the other without any human interaction. > What we need are people with solutions to problems, not people to tell > us how we should go about looking for solutions. I try my best to solve current problems. I will not be immediate, but I hope authors feel the situation is improving. -- Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Anywhere/Partout: guylhem-pager \@/ oeil.qc.ca From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from smtp1.free.fr (root@smtp1.free.fr [212.27.32.5]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id TAA22792 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 19:41:10 +1000 Received: from victis.oeil.qc.ca (toulouse-59-234.dial.proxad.net [212.27.59.234]) by smtp1.free.fr (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id LAA08704; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 11:40:38 +0200 Received: from guylhem by victis.oeil.qc.ca with local (Exim 3.02 #3) id 11Ifyx-0000CW-00; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 00:20:55 +0200 Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 00:20:55 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: terry@albert.animats.net Cc: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: Message-ID: <19990823002055.C741@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: <19990822120434.A914@victis.oeil.qc.ca> <199908222159.HAA19590@albert.animats.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=5QAgd0e35j3NYeGe; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <199908222159.HAA19590@albert.animats.net>; from terry@albert.animats.net on Mon, Aug 23, 1999 at 07:59:37AM +1000 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 --5QAgd0e35j3NYeGe Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Aug 23, 1999 at 07:59:37AM +1000, terry@albert.animats.net wrote: > At risk of instantianting "LDP License Debate 1999", I do not believe > you will find any concensus on that matter. Let's wait for the next version of DGPL before debating. --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Anywhere/Partout: guylhem-pager \@/ oeil.qc.ca --5QAgd0e35j3NYeGe Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN8B3x9+QeWug/qfFAQHPFAP/e0hetR8x97gwQK3USnrDpiVnxJUKSTaF VmHsz03TKM+zBEYUBtuTuvhr8iukTiPzI5ax5Z01EbX724kREJZb/gDLgTMFYCQc hEM2xCvXvvyNYCtkIX8JoQSoJURYoho4GkJMvysAk2WiIb2aTpvph0p6fzEq0r4h b6+WZLKpJt4= =VTD/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --5QAgd0e35j3NYeGe-- From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0003 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA26846 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 09:50:36 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA15416 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 09:50:32 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id RAA08887 for ldp-l-list; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 17:41:28 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from smtp1.free.fr (root@smtp1.free.fr [212.27.32.5]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id RAA08883 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 17:41:23 +0800 Received: from victis.oeil.qc.ca (toulouse-59-234.dial.proxad.net [212.27.59.234]) by smtp1.free.fr (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id LAA08704; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 11:40:38 +0200 Received: from guylhem by victis.oeil.qc.ca with local (Exim 3.02 #3) id 11Ifyx-0000CW-00; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 00:20:55 +0200 Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 00:20:55 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: terry@albert.animats.net Cc: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: Message-ID: <19990823002055.C741@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: <19990822120434.A914@victis.oeil.qc.ca> <199908222159.HAA19590@albert.animats.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=5QAgd0e35j3NYeGe; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <199908222159.HAA19590@albert.animats.net>; from terry@albert.animats.net on Mon, Aug 23, 1999 at 07:59:37AM +1000 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au X-Loop: ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk --5QAgd0e35j3NYeGe Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Aug 23, 1999 at 07:59:37AM +1000, terry@albert.animats.net wrote: > At risk of instantianting "LDP License Debate 1999", I do not believe > you will find any concensus on that matter. Let's wait for the next version of DGPL before debating. --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Anywhere/Partout: guylhem-pager \@/ oeil.qc.ca --5QAgd0e35j3NYeGe Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN8B3x9+QeWug/qfFAQHPFAP/e0hetR8x97gwQK3USnrDpiVnxJUKSTaF VmHsz03TKM+zBEYUBtuTuvhr8iukTiPzI5ax5Z01EbX724kREJZb/gDLgTMFYCQc hEM2xCvXvvyNYCtkIX8JoQSoJURYoho4GkJMvysAk2WiIb2aTpvph0p6fzEq0r4h b6+WZLKpJt4= =VTD/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --5QAgd0e35j3NYeGe-- From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id KAA22120 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 10:09:10 +1000 From: ldp-announce-request@lists.debian.org Received: (qmail 20141 invoked by uid 38); 28 Aug 1999 00:09:06 -0000 Date: 28 Aug 1999 00:09:06 -0000 Message-ID: <19990828000906.20138.qmail@murphy.debian.org> To: terry@albert.animats.net Subject: Re: subscribe terry@albert.animats.net References: <199908280004.KAA22058@albert.animats.net> In-Reply-To: <199908280004.KAA22058@albert.animats.net> X-Loop: ldp-announce@lists.debian.org You have added to the subscriber list of: ldp-announce@lists.debian.org the following mail address: terry@albert.animats.net By default, copies of your own submissions will be returned. This is an automated subscription mechanism. For your verification, a transcript of the original subscription request is included below. To unsubscribe from this list, send "unsubscribe" in the message body (the subject should be blank) to: -REQUEST@lists.debian.org and you will be removed. If the wrong address has been subscribed and you seem to be unable to fix it yourself, reply to this message now (quoting it entirely (for diagnostic purposes), and of course adding any comments you see fit). -- >From terry@albert.animats.net Fri Aug 27 19:09:04 1999 >X-Envelope-Sender: terry@albert.animats.net >Received: (qmail 13573 invoked from network); 28 Aug 1999 00:04:36 -0000 >Received: from albert.animats.net (root@203.41.101.122) > by murphy.debian.org with SMTP; 28 Aug 1999 00:04:35 -0000 >Received: from albert.animats.net (terry@localhost [127.0.0.1]) > by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id KAA22058 > for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 10:04:27 +1000 >Message-Id: <199908280004.KAA22058@albert.animats.net> >Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 10:04:24 +1000 (EST) >From: terry@albert.animats.net >To: ldp-announce-request@lists.debian.org >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII >X-Diagnostic: Tried to confirm subscription >Subject: subscribe terry@albert.animats.net > > >-- >terry@albert.animats.net, terry@linux.org.au > > From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id KAA22121 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 10:09:12 +1000 From: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Received: (qmail 20183 invoked by uid 38); 28 Aug 1999 00:09:07 -0000 Date: 28 Aug 1999 00:09:07 -0000 Message-ID: <19990828000907.20177.qmail@murphy.debian.org> To: terry@albert.animats.net Subject: Re: subscribe terry@albert.animats.net References: <199908280004.KAA22075@albert.animats.net> In-Reply-To: <199908280004.KAA22075@albert.animats.net> X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org You have added to the subscriber list of: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org the following mail address: terry@albert.animats.net By default, copies of your own submissions will be returned. This is an automated subscription mechanism. For your verification, a transcript of the original subscription request is included below. To unsubscribe from this list, send "unsubscribe" in the message body (the subject should be blank) to: -REQUEST@lists.debian.org and you will be removed. If the wrong address has been subscribed and you seem to be unable to fix it yourself, reply to this message now (quoting it entirely (for diagnostic purposes), and of course adding any comments you see fit). -- >From terry@albert.animats.net Fri Aug 27 19:09:04 1999 >X-Envelope-Sender: terry@albert.animats.net >Received: (qmail 13933 invoked from network); 28 Aug 1999 00:04:57 -0000 >Received: from albert.animats.net (root@203.41.101.122) > by murphy.debian.org with SMTP; 28 Aug 1999 00:04:57 -0000 >Received: from albert.animats.net (terry@localhost [127.0.0.1]) > by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id KAA22075 > for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 10:04:46 +1000 >Message-Id: <199908280004.KAA22075@albert.animats.net> >Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 10:04:43 +1000 (EST) >From: terry@albert.animats.net >To: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII >X-Diagnostic: Tried to confirm subscription >Subject: subscribe terry@albert.animats.net > > > >-- >terry@albert.animats.net, terry@linux.org.au > > From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id KAA22130 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 10:09:18 +1000 From: ldp-private-request@lists.debian.org Received: (qmail 20374 invoked by uid 38); 28 Aug 1999 00:09:15 -0000 Date: 28 Aug 1999 00:09:14 -0000 Message-ID: <19990828000914.20365.qmail@murphy.debian.org> To: terry@albert.animats.net Subject: Re: subscribe terry@albert.animats.net References: <199908280005.KAA22092@albert.animats.net> In-Reply-To: <199908280005.KAA22092@albert.animats.net> X-Loop: ldp-private@lists.debian.org You have added to the subscriber list of: ldp-private@lists.debian.org the following mail address: terry@albert.animats.net By default, copies of your own submissions will be returned. This is an automated subscription mechanism. For your verification, a transcript of the original subscription request is included below. To unsubscribe from this list, send "unsubscribe" in the message body (the subject should be blank) to: -REQUEST@lists.debian.org and you will be removed. If the wrong address has been subscribed and you seem to be unable to fix it yourself, reply to this message now (quoting it entirely (for diagnostic purposes), and of course adding any comments you see fit). -- >From terry@albert.animats.net Fri Aug 27 19:09:11 1999 >X-Envelope-Sender: terry@albert.animats.net >Received: (qmail 14303 invoked from network); 28 Aug 1999 00:05:14 -0000 >Received: from albert.animats.net (root@203.41.101.122) > by murphy.debian.org with SMTP; 28 Aug 1999 00:05:14 -0000 >Received: from albert.animats.net (terry@localhost [127.0.0.1]) > by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id KAA22092 > for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 10:05:06 +1000 >Message-Id: <199908280005.KAA22092@albert.animats.net> >Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 10:05:03 +1000 (EST) >From: terry@albert.animats.net >To: ldp-private-request@lists.debian.org >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII >X-Diagnostic: Tried to confirm subscription >Subject: subscribe terry@albert.animats.net > > >-- >terry@albert.animats.net, terry@linux.org.au > > From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id XAA22441 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 23:55:37 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id XAA19868 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 23:55:31 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id VAA08480 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 21:29:21 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from raje.ks-t.no (raje.ks-t.no [193.71.171.194]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id VAA08475 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 21:29:16 +0800 Received: from stanga.ks-t.no (unverified) by raje.ks-t.no (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id for ; to, 29 apr 1999 15:20:24 +0200 Received: from online.no (pc130.ks-t.no [193.71.169.130]) by stanga.ks-t.no with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id 2YV093CQ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 15:23:40 +0200 Message-Id: <37285E7E.D57F0A66@online.no> Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 15:28:30 +0200 From: Stein Gjoen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: LDP leadership; now what? References: <36ED233E.6513DFA5@mail.nyx.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Some time ago ( 15 March to be precise) I mailed to the list, suggesting the Debian doc coordinator be added to the list. I am in regular contact with him and he is interested in joining. There were no objections...and nothing happened. So how about it, why not join him on the list? He is Marco Budde Regards, Stein Gjoen From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA04682 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 01:10:09 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA31410 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 01:10:05 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id WAA19690 for ldp-l-list; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 22:36:44 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from raje.ks-t.no (raje.ks-t.no [193.71.171.194]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id WAA19686 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 22:36:39 +0800 Received: from stanga.ks-t.no (unverified) by raje.ks-t.no (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id for ; on, 02 jun 1999 16:22:10 +0200 Received: from online.no (pc130.ks-t.no [193.71.169.130]) by stanga.ks-t.no with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id KW4GV0JN; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 16:25:18 +0200 Message-Id: <37554011.C1B0DF24@online.no> Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 16:30:41 +0200 From: Stein Gjoen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: public humiliation References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Tim - HOWTO Coordinator wrote: > > David, > > Your HOWTOs got lost in the shuffle between metalab and me. This has been my experience too, for 15 montyhs; which is the reason I am joining in here. > If you have a problem with me, I'd appreciate you not whaling on me on the > list. Sure, I can take the verbal abuse, but it doesn't help matters Well, here we are at the core of the matter: getting response. I and others have CC-ed to this list to make sure there is a record of the fact we have tried to contact you as responses have in the past been sorely missing. Much seems to have gone missing. > much. We're trying to work together to correct problems, not stir up > issues of a personal nature which I feel for one is unfair and secondly > uncalled for. Generally the tone leads to hostility which some folks feel Although I believe I have restrained myself it has been hugely frustrating in the past, getting multiple corrections for way out of date HOWTOs. Getting no replies to mail and hardly no signs of life has made annoyed at times. ESR claims egoboosts from seeing ones name on the net is a driving force. Personally I feel that is overstated but I can see the problem of being blamed for not updating ones work can cause irritation and negative feelings. My HOWTO has not earned my much directly but indirectly it was part of why I got my current job, something I am not alone about in the open world. Lack of updates reflect negatively and can cost credibility. > is necessary to jump on the band wagon. When I say unfair I'm not just > speaking of myself, I would think the same if someone else were in my > shoes. For me to turn to the list everytime someone sent me sgml source > that wouldn't compile cleanly and begin ranting about it as a show of > public humiliation just wouldn't work and would turn folks away. Instead > I choose to either correct the problems myself (or at least do what I can) > or send back suggestions/comments on what needs to be done. Even if it's > just changing the format of , or the like. Many fall into > this category, not excluding you. Something very simple, but certainly > not worth me getting upset about and then turning it to the list. All it takes is a sign of life, just a oneliner saying you have received it is all it takes as far as I am concerned. It is when I do not see any activity from you, neither on the net, nor in mail nor in this mailinglist I get unsure if I got through. > I've offered other alternatives in getting things to me to expedite > things, but they generally fall on deaf ears. It seems that the fact that > things were not going good for a while is all that matters and unless > someone else takes over it's just not good enough or will not get better > and this just simply isn't the case. > > I'm doing a lot (a lot more than folks know or seem to care about), but > this just comes with the territory and that's fine. If it flames and > reprimands (sp?) that I deserve then keep them coming, but keep them off > the list, it's just not the place. I *can* read folks. ;) Should they > continue on then I suppose I will just continue on as I have and will let > them fall by the way side and I will continue to try to make things > better, but I won't get into a grand discussion on the list. Why not take the same approach as Alan Cox and keep a web diary? That way everyone can see progress takes place. Add in the TODOs and we feel reassured you are on the ball. > I accept the fact that they were late, but it's not as though you were > singled out or that nothing had been updated, plenty of other HOWTOs have > been re-distributed to the outside world. I am nearly exuberant that my Multi Disk HOWTO now has been updated, just in time for the new Debian release to be compiled up. Regards, Stein Gjoen From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id HAA13585 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 07:27:15 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id HAA25902 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 07:26:55 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id FAA31215 for ldp-l-list; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 05:18:53 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from lafn.org (lafn.ORG [206.117.18.1]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id FAA31211 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 05:18:49 +0800 Received: by lafn.org id AA00638 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ldp-l@linux.org.au); Thu, 10 Jun 1999 14:18:37 -0700 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 14:18:37 -0700 Message-Id: <199906102118.AA00638@lafn.org> From: bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer) Qto: adam@yggdrasil.com Subject: Re: License Cc: ldp-l@linux.org.au Reply-To: bf347@lafn.org Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk > >David Lawyer writes: >>Another problem is that [the GNU General Public License] doesn't allow any >>leeway for the author to change the license when a new version comes out. Adam J. Richter wrote: > If you own the entire copyright interest, you can release your >new version under whatever new copying conditions you want, including >conditions more restrictive than the GPL. Yes and no. I should have said "authors other than the original one". The GPL License requires that modified works (such as new versions) be also released under GPL. Thus anyone bound by the GPL license must use the same license. Now the original author can claim that he never agreed to the GPL that he selected to issue his work under. Thus he's not bound by it and can come out with a new version under whatever license he wants to. But if you are not the original author, then you agree to the license when you accept a copy of the work. Thus you are bound by it. You could even become the sole copyright owner if the original author agrees. It seems that there is a loophole here since the original author could give his copyright to someone else and tell that person that they are not bound by the license. If you become the sole owner of a copyright but are bound by a license, then in a sense you don't fully own the copyright. Copyright law was not written with GPL-type licenses in mind and IMO needs to be revised. > Of course, making a new release does not take back the permissions >that you had already granted by making your previous releases available, >but there is nothing special about the GPL in that regard. > -- Dave Lawyer From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id TAA09987 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 19:09:27 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id TAA08951 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 19:09:23 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id QAA04897 for ldp-l-list; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 16:50:35 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from raje.ks-t.no (raje.ks-t.no [193.71.171.194]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id QAA04893 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 16:50:28 +0800 Received: from stanga.ks-t.no (unverified) by raje.ks-t.no (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id for ; ma, 14 jun 1999 10:41:22 +0200 Received: from online.no (pc130.ks-t.no [193.71.169.130]) by stanga.ks-t.no with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id M422NV2Z; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 10:44:08 +0200 Message-Id: <3764C225.A6F73812@online.no> Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 10:49:41 +0200 From: Stein Gjoen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: Required Reading References: <199906140357.UAA10260@ezwebhost.com> <14180.33807.621347.554309@ppp01-131.algx.iadfw.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Kendall Clark wrote: > > >>>>> "Poet" == Poet writes: > > Poet> Very interesting for those of you who have not. It regards > Poet> Docbook ,DSSL, XML and the LDP > > Poet> http://www.ntlug.org/~kclark/roadmap/ > > I'm glad you find it interesting. When I posted it here last year it > was largely ignored, and I've never been very sure why that happened. Possibly because your mail system ate the replies? I mailed you back but never got a reply so I wrote off your project. > A friend of mine recently suggested that I revisit that essay to take > account of what's happened in the various communities it tries to tie > together: LDP, XML/SGML, DocBook, SGMLTools, etc. Lack of BASIC information is a problem. Straightaway people get faced with an alphabet soup of abbreviations without any definitions. Sometimes it is ambiguous, such as SGML: some say that is what we mark up the documents with, others say that is what is used to define the language we use to do the markup with. Pesonally I drop all interest until people can decide what they mean. Also the uselessness of the documentation for these systems is rather worrysome. I tried to read about it but found my time was better Spent keeping my part of the HOWTOs up to date rather than trying to read up on packages which do not even seem capable of producing plain ascii outputs, see for instance http://www.ntlug.org/~kclark/roadmap/stepone.html . Equally puzzling is the utter lack of clear explanations WHY we should switch to DocBook or whatever it is called or whatever they propose. Seemingly the benefits must be so minor they are not able to explain it to people who try to write the HOWTOs. I have made a few suggestions to useful features to the existing systems but never got anywhere either. Removing existing, long standing bugs would alos have been nice. Regards, Stein Gjoen From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0013 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id LAA06468 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:11:51 +1000 Received: (qmail 12165 invoked by uid 38); 27 Sep 1999 01:11:40 -0000 Resent-Date: 27 Sep 1999 01:11:40 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: poet@linuxports.com Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 18:20:55 -0700 (PDT) From: "Mr. Poet" X-Sender: jd@crazypenguins.commandprompt.com To: Terry Dawson cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org, ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org, recipient list not shown: ; Subject: Re: Banner Ads? Banner Ads? In-Reply-To: <19990927090111.B5658@albert.animats.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/590 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Hello, There is no revenue stream. It was in exchange for the prizes for the logo contest. Poet LinuxPorts - http://www.linuxports.com LDP - http://www.linuxdoc.org On Mon, 27 Sep 1999, Terry Dawson wrote: > > What is with the banner ad on the front page of the LDP Home page? > > *Please*, don't sell the LDP out. > > If the LDP home page *must* have banner ads, at least lets restrict them > to open source projects and not commercial entities. > > Where is the revenue stream from this commercial advertising going pray tell? > > regards > Terry > > -- > terry@albert.animats.net, terry@linux.org.au > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id LAA06487 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:13:38 +1000 Received: (qmail 12836 invoked by uid 38); 27 Sep 1999 01:13:28 -0000 Resent-Date: 27 Sep 1999 01:13:28 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: poet@linuxports.com Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 18:22:55 -0700 (PDT) From: "Mr. Poet" X-Sender: jd@crazypenguins.commandprompt.com To: Terry Dawson cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org, ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org, recipient list not shown: ; Subject: Re: Comments on web site. In-Reply-To: <19990927094647.A5846@albert.animats.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/591 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Hello, Uhmmm.... the link is 1 click... outside of putting the actual howt-howto on the main page I can not make it any shorter than that. Try clicking on: Contribute/Submit on the front page on the left hand side... Poet LinuxPorts - http://www.linuxports.com LDP - http://www.linuxdoc.org On Mon, 27 Sep 1999, Terry Dawson wrote: > > > The information on how to submit a new or updated document is way way too > many clicks away. I had to go looking to find it. I suggest you put something > on the front page that provides a direct link to a simple page that explains > the process and provides the email address. Having a link from that page > to the HOWTO-HOWTO would be appropriate. > > --- > I've now realised that the banner ad is in fact for the sponsor of the > logo contest .. that isn't at all clear. At the very least the title > of the front page, you know that bit that says > "The Linux Documentation Project" should be at the top of the page, not beneath > the banner ad. > > Most people are going to be more interested in the documentation than the > core team .. I suggest reordering the sidebar descending as: > > Documentation, Information Links, LDP Info, The Core Team, Important > > "Important" could probably be retitled "Mirrors" since that's all it discusses > anyway. > > ---- > I'd like the see the titles of the Guides in > http://www.linuxdoc.org/docs.html > > made a bit more obvious, they get lost in garble. These are significant works > and should be featured. I find the section quite difficult to read. I find the > HOWTO section below much easier to read, but I think I'd again make the HOWTO > class names a bit more obvious .. it's very easy to see the lists of versions > of each class, but the title of class is lost and undifferentiated from the > surrounding irrelevance. > > ---- > The LDP Manifesto has lost an important word from very first sentence of its > Overview. What happened to "free" ? The goal of the LDP has always been to > produce good free documentation. The "reliable" is gratuitous surely? It'd > be naiive to believe we were working on producing unreliable documentation. > "The Linux Documentation Project produces free, high quality documentation > for the Linux operating system". We ought to consider GNU/Linux there, or > drop the "operating system". > > ---- > http://www.linuxdoc.org/copyright.html is still incorrect, misleading and > inconsistent. There is no single license that applies to all LDP documents. > What you have listed there still refers to Matt's "Installation and Getting > Started" obviously from where it was taken. It talks about the GPL being > reproduced below and it isn't, it's just referred to. > > The "Publishing LDP Manuals" section of the new Manifesto is equally > misleading because it too implies there is some blanket license that > covers all LDP works. > > ---- > I don't like the text in the sidebar being wedged hard against the cell > borders in the sidebar, it makes it difficult to read. > > regards > Terry > > > -- > terry@albert.animats.net, terry@linux.org.au > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from crazypenguins.commandprompt.com (commandprompt.com [209.102.107.108]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id KAA13343 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 10:43:35 +1000 Received: from beta.linuxports.com (beta.linuxports.com [209.102.107.110]) by crazypenguins.commandprompt.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA13897; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 17:53:22 -0700 Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 17:53:22 -0700 (PDT) From: "Mr. Poet" X-Sender: jd@crazypenguins.commandprompt.com To: Terry Dawson cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org, ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org, recipient list not shown: ; Subject: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd) In-Reply-To: <19990928102154.C13122@albert.animats.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello, "IF" this were implemented, I don't believe that it would be arbitrary at all. It would be something like if: The document has not been updated in 6 months, the author would be contacted. The author would then have 30 days to respond to the email and state their intentions/plans/status of the document. If the author did not reply in 30 days, the document would then go into purgatory for a period of time, say 60 days. At the time of purgatory the document would be publicized in multiple places that it at a certain date it would be considered unmaintained. After that date the document would then be free to be taken over by another author, who could change the license but not the copyright information. Understand that this is not something that has been implemented, and may not be the best solution, but a solution must be found. This is also just my take on it, I don't know that this is the best one, but I haven't seen any others yet except for, just leave it alone which is compost... Poet LinuxPorts - http://www.linuxports.com LDP - http://www.linuxdoc.org On Tue, 28 Sep 1999, Terry Dawson wrote: > On Mon, Sep 27, 1999 at 11:08:02AM -0700, Mr. Poet wrote: > > > Personally I don't care what license you use, I just think that if you > > drop maintainership of a document that we (THE LDP) have the > > right to change the license. The copyright info stays, but the license > > itself can change. > > Look, if I use a license that says you can't change the license then you > can't change the license. Full stop. The LDP can exlude the document if it > so chooses, but you can not do anything that the license does not allow you > to do. That is the whole point of licenses. > > If the license can be arbitrarily changed (don't tell me it isn't an arbitrary > decision as to when a document is no long being actively maintained) then > there is absolutely no point having a license at all. > > The LDP can change the license on any document it (as a legal entity) holds > copyright for. > > Terry > > -- > terry@albert.animats.net, terry@linux.org.au > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org > From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id KAA13350 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 10:43:58 +1000 Received: (qmail 14173 invoked by uid 38); 28 Sep 1999 00:43:47 -0000 Resent-Date: 28 Sep 1999 00:43:47 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: poet@linuxports.com Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 17:53:22 -0700 (PDT) From: "Mr. Poet" X-Sender: jd@crazypenguins.commandprompt.com To: Terry Dawson cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org, ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org, recipient list not shown: ; Subject: Re: General Positive Feedback re: revision of site (fwd) In-Reply-To: <19990928102154.C13122@albert.animats.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <8ZLAXC.A.LdD.C9A83@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/627 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org Hello, "IF" this were implemented, I don't believe that it would be arbitrary at all. It would be something like if: The document has not been updated in 6 months, the author would be contacted. The author would then have 30 days to respond to the email and state their intentions/plans/status of the document. If the author did not reply in 30 days, the document would then go into purgatory for a period of time, say 60 days. At the time of purgatory the document would be publicized in multiple places that it at a certain date it would be considered unmaintained. After that date the document would then be free to be taken over by another author, who could change the license but not the copyright information. Understand that this is not something that has been implemented, and may not be the best solution, but a solution must be found. This is also just my take on it, I don't know that this is the best one, but I haven't seen any others yet except for, just leave it alone which is compost... Poet LinuxPorts - http://www.linuxports.com LDP - http://www.linuxdoc.org On Tue, 28 Sep 1999, Terry Dawson wrote: > On Mon, Sep 27, 1999 at 11:08:02AM -0700, Mr. Poet wrote: > > > Personally I don't care what license you use, I just think that if you > > drop maintainership of a document that we (THE LDP) have the > > right to change the license. The copyright info stays, but the license > > itself can change. > > Look, if I use a license that says you can't change the license then you > can't change the license. Full stop. The LDP can exlude the document if it > so chooses, but you can not do anything that the license does not allow you > to do. That is the whole point of licenses. > > If the license can be arbitrarily changed (don't tell me it isn't an arbitrary > decision as to when a document is no long being actively maintained) then > there is absolutely no point having a license at all. > > The LDP can change the license on any document it (as a legal entity) holds > copyright for. > > Terry > > -- > terry@albert.animats.net, terry@linux.org.au > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from crazypenguins.commandprompt.com (commandprompt.com [209.102.107.108]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA24315 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 00:02:44 +1000 Received: from linuxports.com (emperor.linuxports.com [216.228.73.37]) by crazypenguins.commandprompt.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA27700; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 07:12:42 -0700 Message-ID: <37F21865.A98292F1@linuxports.com> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 06:47:17 -0700 From: Joshua Drake {aka Poet} Organization: LinuxPorts and the LDP X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: terry@albert.animats.net CC: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Final Farewell?? References: <199909290718.RAA22300@albert.animats.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What I meant by this is a alot of people including myself will pad or soften what they are saying. I did not mean that people were lying. Simply that people a lot of time will change their words to reflect a softer tone. terry@albert.animats.net wrote: > > On 28 Sep, Mr. Poet wrote: > > > Imagine that, a member on this list finally speaking his mind to > > the truth. > > That sort of arrogance doesn't further public opinion of you. Just who > on this list do you think isn't speaking their mind truthfully? > > I will say, it was nice to see you actually come out from behind the > facade you normally present and post with your real name in another > message. > > Terry > > -- > terry@albert.animats.net, terry@linux.org.au > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org -- LinuxPorts - http://www.linuxports.com LDP - http://www.linuxdoc.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [209.41.108.199]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id AAA24322 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 00:02:58 +1000 Received: (qmail 3512 invoked by uid 38); 29 Sep 1999 14:02:51 -0000 Resent-Date: 29 Sep 1999 14:02:51 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; X-Envelope-Sender: poet@linuxports.com Message-ID: <37F21865.A98292F1@linuxports.com> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 06:47:17 -0700 From: Joshua Drake {aka Poet} Organization: LinuxPorts and the LDP X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: terry@albert.animats.net CC: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Final Farewell?? References: <199909290718.RAA22300@albert.animats.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <4wl6_C.A.v2.Lwh83@murphy> Resent-From: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/665 X-Loop: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org What I meant by this is a alot of people including myself will pad or soften what they are saying. I did not mean that people were lying. Simply that people a lot of time will change their words to reflect a softer tone. terry@albert.animats.net wrote: > > On 28 Sep, Mr. Poet wrote: > > > Imagine that, a member on this list finally speaking his mind to > > the truth. > > That sort of arrogance doesn't further public opinion of you. Just who > on this list do you think isn't speaking their mind truthfully? > > I will say, it was nice to see you actually come out from behind the > facade you normally present and post with your real name in another > message. > > Terry > > -- > terry@albert.animats.net, terry@linux.org.au > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org -- LinuxPorts - http://www.linuxports.com LDP - http://www.linuxdoc.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id MAA17829 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:16:53 +1100 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id MAA16328 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:16:50 +1100 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) id JAA21722 for ldp-l-list; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:06:14 +0800 (WST) X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from snark.thyrsus.com (esr@[192.190.237.102]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA21717 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:06:09 +0800 (WST) Received: (from esr@localhost) by snark.thyrsus.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA13124; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 20:13:04 -0500 Message-ID: <19990209201304.H12211@thyrsus.com> Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 20:13:04 -0500 From: "Eric S. Raymond" To: Lars Wirzenius , ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: LDP leadership References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Lars Wirzenius on Tue, Feb 09, 1999 at 11:11:40PM +0200 Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Lars Wirzenius : > I am not willing to do all the work myself, lazy bastard as I am. Thus, > before I commit myself: is the majority of the LDP authors willing to > go this path? I want explicit answers, and will interpret silence as > negative. Reply in public or in private, according to taste. You have my support. -- Eric S. Raymond From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id NAA18261 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:36:56 +1100 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id NAA16453 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:36:53 +1100 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) id KAA23374 for ldp-l-list; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 10:26:39 +0800 (WST) X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from nigel.redhat.com (IDENT:root@adsl-77-240-200.rdu.bellsouth.net [216.77.240.200]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id KAA23370 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 10:26:32 +0800 (WST) Received: from nigel.redhat.com (johnsonm@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nigel.redhat.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA00772; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 21:26:11 -0500 Message-Id: <199902100226.VAA00772@nigel.redhat.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 To: Lars Wirzenius , ldp-l@linux.org.au From: "Michael K. Johnson" Subject: Re: LDP leadership In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 09 Feb 1999 20:13:04 EST." <19990209201304.H12211@thyrsus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 21:26:11 -0500 Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk "Eric S. Raymond" writes: >Lars Wirzenius : >> I am not willing to do all the work myself, lazy bastard as I am. Thus, >> before I commit myself: is the majority of the LDP authors willing to >> go this path? I want explicit answers, and will interpret silence as >> negative. Reply in public or in private, according to taste. > >You have my support. me too! michaelkjohnson "Ever wonder why the SAME PEOPLE make up ALL the conspiracy theories?" From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA32141 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:14:34 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA32473 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:14:31 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id HAA28103 for ldp-l-list; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 07:04:12 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from albert.aapra.org.au (terry@albert.aapra.org.au [203.41.101.122]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id HAA28099 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 07:04:08 +0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id XAA32056; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 23:02:38 GMT Message-ID: <19990422230237.D31959@albert.aapra.org.au> Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 23:02:37 +0000 From: Terry Dawson To: Lars Wirzenius , ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: Submitting HOWTOs References: <199904131433.AA05093@lafn.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Lars Wirzenius on Sat, May 22, 1999 at 03:46:41PM +0000 Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On Sat, May 22, 1999 at 03:46:41PM +0000, Lars Wirzenius wrote: > We may want to create an ldp-announce -list later, or possibly an > ldp-author-announce as well. ldp-l-announce already exists and has done for some time. Not all HOWTO authors are on ldp-l. Terry -- terry@albert.aapra.org.au, terry@linux.org.au From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA32153 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:16:13 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA32485 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:16:09 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id HAA28109 for ldp-l-list; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 07:05:26 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from albert.aapra.org.au (terry@albert.aapra.org.au [203.41.101.122]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id HAA28105 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 07:05:22 +0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id XAA32075; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 23:04:14 GMT Message-ID: <19990422230414.E31959@albert.aapra.org.au> Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 23:04:14 +0000 From: Terry Dawson To: Lars Wirzenius , ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: Submitting HOWTOs References: <199904132052.QAA04837@chef.redhat.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Lars Wirzenius on Sat, May 22, 1999 at 03:59:54PM +0000 Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On Sat, May 22, 1999 at 03:59:54PM +0000, Lars Wirzenius wrote: > Could Red Hat host master.linuxdoc.org for running an upload automation > thingy and master website (from which metalab would mirror) and provide > accounts for several LDP people interested in maintaining these things? Linux Australia certainly could. Terry -- terry@albert.aapra.org.au, terry@linux.org.au From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id VAA03333 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 21:26:44 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id VAA00628 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 21:26:41 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id TAA02615 for ldp-l-list; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 19:12:39 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from doughnut.remcomp.fr (alpha-dummy.remcomp.fr [194.51.30.245]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id TAA02610 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 19:12:33 +0800 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by lmm.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with UUCP id LAA31434; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 11:03:27 +0200 Received: by barberouge via sendmail with stdio id for ldp-l@linux.org.au; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 02:09:57 +0200 (CEST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #1 built 1999-Jan-23) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 02:09:57 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: Lars Wirzenius Cc: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: your mail Message-ID: <19990423020957.A2692@barberouge.linux.lmm.com> References: <19990421205631.A8956@barberouge.linux.lmm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Lars Wirzenius on Sat, May 22, 1999 at 03:54:15PM +0000 Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On Sat, May 22, 1999 at 03:54:15PM +0000, Lars Wirzenius wrote: > I'd wait on any public announcements until we have an upload system > that is fast. This means that any human intervention and manual labour on Seems fair. > Tim's side is out of the question. (It's OK to require a little bit > more work from the authors, such as checking date formats Will we take ISO or usual format ? A simple solution would be using ISO date in the sgml source, for your script, and then using sgmltools or a little sed script to rewrite the date. > goal, I think it should take less than 24 hours for an upload to be > made available on www.linuxdoc.org. This would be fantastic, but which identification system should we use ? What about a simple login+passwd ? I think each author could ftp its own HOWTO, then a cron would search ~/ for .sgml files, convert them, put them on line and on the main site. -- ____/| "Letting people bear arms is letting them kill our children" \ o.O| Enlever rrremovethis / Remove rrremovethis =(_)= Salut / Best regards \u/ Guylhem AZNAR From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id IAA06538 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 08:43:02 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id IAA02578 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 08:42:58 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id GAA12374 for ldp-l-list; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 06:18:49 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from doughnut.remcomp.fr (alpha-dummy.remcomp.fr [194.51.30.245]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id GAA12353 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 06:18:43 +0800 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by lmm.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with UUCP id XAA15941; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 23:13:11 +0200 Received: by barberouge via sendmail with stdio id for ldp-l@linux.org.au; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 20:04:18 +0200 (CEST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #1 built 1999-Jan-23) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 20:04:18 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: Lars Wirzenius Cc: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: HOWTO latency Message-ID: <19990423200418.A1109@barberouge.linux.lmm.com> References: <199904221935.AA21344@lafn.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Lars Wirzenius on Sun, May 23, 1999 at 10:04:51AM +0000 Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On Sun, May 23, 1999 at 10:04:51AM +0000, Lars Wirzenius wrote: > Well, given that I haven't had much opportunity to do anything about > it for some weeks, I can't say there's been much coordination. Not that > Tim has been unresponsive. Someone suggested we could be more than one for a single task. What about a "tag team" ? :-) > will need some manual attention for the first upload). We've been discussing There's always an human needed somewhere, nothing can become 100% automatic. -- ____/| "Letting people bear arms is letting them kill our children" \ o.O| Enlever rrremovethis / Remove rrremovethis =(_)= Salut / Best regards \u/ Guylhem AZNAR From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id IAA22630 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 08:38:33 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id IAA08408 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 08:38:27 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id GAA27422 for ldp-l-list; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 06:23:01 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from doughnut.remcomp.fr (alpha-dummy.remcomp.fr [194.51.30.245]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id GAA27418 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 06:22:46 +0800 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by lmm.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with UUCP id XAA17611; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 23:44:44 +0200 Received: by barberouge via sendmail with stdio id for ldp-l@linux.org.au; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 22:51:14 +0200 (CEST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #1 built 1999-Jan-23) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 22:51:14 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: Lars Wirzenius Cc: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: your mail Message-ID: <19990424225114.A1748@barberouge.linux.lmm.com> References: <19990423020957.A2692@barberouge.linux.lmm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Lars Wirzenius on Mon, May 24, 1999 at 02:16:39PM +0000 Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On Mon, May 24, 1999 at 02:16:39PM +0000, Lars Wirzenius wrote: > (As long as the format is unambiguous and can be parsed automatically, > it doesn't matter much.) This is why I think ISO is more adapted. > It also depends on how the people who donate upload queue hosting > for us want to do this. If it's possible, I'd prefer a CVS or a FTP. -- ____/| "Letting people bear arms is letting them kill our children" \ o.O| Enlever rrremovethis / Remove rrremovethis =(_)= Salut / Best regards \u/ Guylhem AZNAR From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA04217 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 09:49:22 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA13184 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 09:49:18 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id HAA31984 for ldp-l-list; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 07:33:50 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from mail.redhat.com (mail.redhat.com [199.183.24.239]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id HAA31980 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 07:33:45 +0800 From: hartr@redhat.com Received: from bree.cali.redhat.com (root@fosters.redhat.com [199.183.24.77]) by mail.redhat.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA11722; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 19:33:41 -0400 Received: from redhat.com (IDENT:hartr@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bree.cali.redhat.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03106; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:37:13 -0700 Message-Id: <199904270537.WAA03106@bree.cali.redhat.com> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:37:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Mangled dates in mails! To: liw@iki.fi cc: ldp-l@linux.org.au In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Lars Please could you correct the date on your system...most of us are about a month behind you and sorting my mailbox becomes problematic as a result...tks... On 24 May, Lars Wirzenius wrote: -- Robert Hart hartr@redhat.com Red Hat Software Inc (California Office) Phone: +1 650 967 0888 Fax: +1 650 965 7307 From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id OAA09093 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 14:14:08 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA01795 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 00:14:04 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id VAA19529 for ldp-l-list; Wed, 19 May 1999 21:35:52 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from ezwebhost.com (root@www10.ezwebhost.com [207.149.40.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id VAA19519 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 21:35:35 +0800 Received: from blacky (5135-239.021.popsite.net [207.138.230.239]) by ezwebhost.com (8.9.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA00404; Wed, 19 May 1999 06:37:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905191337.GAA00404@ezwebhost.com> From: "Mr. Poet" Organization: LinuxPorts Software To: Lars Wirzenius Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 06:34:11 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: New leader, please Reply-to: poet@linuxports.com CC: ldp-l@linux.org.au, ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.02b14) Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Hello, I will gladly take over the Leadership of the LDP. I am currently the maintainer of the Commercial, VAR and Consultants HOWTO and I have the resources to handle the project. Poet A.K.A. Joshua Drake Date forwarded: 19 May 1999 10:50:41 -0000 Date sent: Wed, 19 May 1999 10:47:50 GMT From: Lars Wirzenius To: ldp-l@linux.org.au, ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Copies to: Subject: New leader, please Forwarded by: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org > I'm sorry, I don't want to be the LDP leader anymore. Please find > someone else. I can't deal with any extra stress right now, and the > LDP is generating unexpectedly much and of the wrong kind. > > At the moment, I won't even have time to work on the upload thingy. > Someone else please take it over: > > http://www.iki.fi/liw/ldp/ldp-cvs-draft1.tar.gz. > > (I'll answer questions. That's as far as I got to writing things down.) > > I have no news of a CVS server. --poet@linuxports.com-- ICQ: 33017215 http://www.linuxports.com --Power to the Penguin-- From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id NAA15729 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 13:57:03 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id XAA04300 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 23:56:59 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id VAA04232 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 20 May 1999 21:29:35 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from doughnut.remcomp.fr (alpha-dummy.remcomp.fr [194.51.30.245]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id VAA04226 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 21:29:25 +0800 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by lmm.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with UUCP id NAA27857 for ldp-l@linux.org.au; Thu, 20 May 1999 13:15:07 +0200 Received: from guylhem by barberouge.linux.lmm.com with local (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10kB6j-0001EV-00; Wed, 19 May 1999 20:30:21 +0200 Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 20:30:21 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: Lars Wirzenius Cc: ldp-l@linux.org.au, ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: New leader, please Message-ID: <19990519203021.C4298@barberouge.linux.lmm.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Lars Wirzenius on Wed, May 19, 1999 at 10:47:50AM +0000 Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On Wed, May 19, 1999 at 10:47:50AM +0000, Lars Wirzenius wrote: > I'm sorry, I don't want to be the LDP leader anymore. Please find > someone else. I can't deal with any extra stress right now, and the > LDP is generating unexpectedly much and of the wrong kind. I can if you want (I just did a two weeks interim while you were unavailable which was nothing but starting some discussions to get feedback) : from next week to october 100% of my time will be free :-( > At the moment, I won't even have time to work on the upload thingy. > Someone else please take it over: > > http://www.iki.fi/liw/ldp/ldp-cvs-draft1.tar.gz. I'm going to download it. > (I'll answer questions. That's as far as I got to writing things down.) Thanks > I have no news of a CVS server. I can set up one on oeil.qc.ca if no one else can, but the bandwith is very limited. -- Q: What's the difference between a dead dog in the road and a dead lawyer in the road? A: There are skid marks in front of the dog. Q: What do you have when you have a lawyer buried up to his neck in sand? A: Not enough sand. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 09:46:13 +1000 (EST) From: terry@albert Subject: Re: ldp-l needs to die To: liw@iki.fi cc: ldp-l@linux.org.au, ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII On 26 Aug, Lars Wirzenius wrote: > There's been enough time for everyone on ldp-l to subscribe to > ldp-discuss. Let's just kill ldp-l now. As it happens I'm not subscribed to ldp-discuss, I doubt many are. I've been waiting for some confirmation from Tim that he has moved the ldp-l subscription list across to the new list before killing/redirecting it. I'm ready to go just as soon as I'm sure I can remove the list safely. regards Terry -- terry@albert.animats.net, terry@linux.org.au From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.animats.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA19186 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 00:37:49 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA19524 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 00:37:45 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id WAA31600 for ldp-l-list; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 22:26:44 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from smtp2.free.fr (root@smtp2.free.fr [212.27.32.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id WAA31594 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 22:26:40 +0800 Received: from victis.oeil.qc.ca (toulouse-63-98.dial.proxad.net [212.27.63.98]) by smtp2.free.fr (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id QAA23652; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 16:24:54 +0200 Received: from guylhem by victis.oeil.qc.ca with local (Exim 3.02 #3) id 11KMCs-0000JH-00; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 15:38:14 +0200 Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 15:38:14 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: Lars Wirzenius Cc: ldp-l@linux.org.au, ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org, Matt Welsh , Deb Richardson , Paul Jones , Jim Pick , Greg Ferguson Subject: Re: ldp-l needs to die Message-ID: <19990827153814.F1085@victis.oeil.qc.ca> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=AkbCVLjbJ9qUtAXD; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: ; from Lars Wirzenius on Thu, Aug 26, 1999 at 10:57:51PM +0000 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au X-Loop: ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk --AkbCVLjbJ9qUtAXD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Aug 26, 1999 at 10:57:51PM +0000, Lars Wirzenius wrote: > There's been a nice little fiasco about the linuxdoc.org site. It would > seem that moving it to point at SGI wasn't very well planned, and anyway > not discussed. I can live with the LDP leader making such decisions > (nothing much is going to happen for the LDP if everything has to be > discussed to death before anything happens), but the big problem is that We *had* to update the site, former site has Greg email, 2 year old documents... Greg site seems good enough to replace current site. > We've been talking for months about killing ldp-l and moving to the public > list, ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org (which anyone can subscribe to). Yet > we still use ldp-l much more than ldp-discuss. This is very, very bad. > There's been enough time for everyone on ldp-l to subscribe to > ldp-discuss. Let's just kill ldp-l now. Terry, could you please kill this list ? If you can move any subscriber to ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org, this is a plus, but even if you can't, just delete it. We'll just have to manually subscribe to new list. > I'd like to thank linux.org.au for running the ldp-l list for so many > years. It has been a truly valuable service to the LDP. Right, thanks a lot to linux.org.au. --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://www.linuxdoc.org Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Anywhere/Partout: guylhem-pager \@/ oeil.qc.ca --AkbCVLjbJ9qUtAXD Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQCVAgUBN8aUxt+QeWug/qfFAQHIqQQAllNa2cfRx1ZEC2J1YCZjOQlDB/Hq34/2 oyHjohK0IEN0Fo3SQC9Whr/FJNFzTdLO+1oerAAwexaTEHWHWPji664m62x1Dsju 7kt2sHXtCmCG/q4LxfRlQ/x2QANnFAz2u1SIczqurE40Nt36Nad4am3zE6/qUp8m dv2k1Kx4m+o= =7kYx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --AkbCVLjbJ9qUtAXD-- From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA23825 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 04:27:22 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA22856 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 04:27:19 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id CAA10136 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 02:18:26 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from smtp2.proxad.net (root@smtp2.proxad.net [212.27.32.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA10132 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 02:18:22 +0800 Received: from barberouge.linux.lmm.com (IDENT:mail@toulouse-59-124.dial.proxad.net [212.27.59.124]) by smtp2.proxad.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id UAA10713; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 20:18:11 +0200 Received: from guylhem by barberouge.linux.lmm.com with local (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10ri6T-0000DD-00; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 15:09:13 +0200 Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 15:09:13 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: Jim Pick Cc: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: Local LDPs Message-ID: <19990609150913.B803@barberouge.linux.lmm.com> References: <19990608121248.A559@barberouge.linux.lmm.com> <87u2sibjoh.fsf@pepper.jimpick.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=K8nIJk4ghYZn606h; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <87u2sibjoh.fsf@pepper.jimpick.com>; from Jim Pick on Tue, Jun 08, 1999 at 12:01:50PM -0700 Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk --K8nIJk4ghYZn606h Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Jun 08, 1999 at 12:01:50PM -0700, Jim Pick wrote: > We could do that. We'd still need to do the mirroring of course, > unless I misunderstand. > Again, we have the problem that most mirrors currently aren't > configured to serve up the LDP pages from the top level - so all these Do you really think we should mirror the sites ? What about www.de.linuxdoc.org opening a page of information (german and english), then a flag to go to www.somewhere.de/not-the-top-level/LDP =20 > Alternatively, we could put in some sort of redirection service. We That's what I was thinking about. I'm going to work on this today, hopefully I will have a draft on my homepage soon. --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://metalab.unc.edu/L= DP/ Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Partout/Everywhere: guylhem-pager \@/ oeil.qc.ca --K8nIJk4ghYZn606h Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia iQCVAgUBN15ned+QeWug/qfFAQGmtgP9Eq3sMl2iIA87dKmoy1p4z+O3pD3eCmlL ieeXq1uLtGOjh/hbAIjeyAy0P/+uVpN+jpA/VehLvVcilHFfy/YO46dH28lrgJiX dseaU1lgH4F/p91V/Uw0gzyv8/WCc8lqetCYLJcTI/X8LOEKkGmWd/cZ/oKTrldb p9pGaVsWk8k= =NmnI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --K8nIJk4ghYZn606h-- From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id RAA19392 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 17:22:20 +1100 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id RAA16678 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 17:22:15 +1100 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) id OAA00260 for ldp-l-list; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:10:49 +0800 (WST) X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from nfs.aceonline.com.au (root@nfs.aceonline.com.au [203.62.135.41]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id OAA00233 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:10:43 +0800 (WST) Received: from burdell.cc.gatech.edu (root@burdell.cc.gatech.edu [130.207.3.207]) by nfs.aceonline.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8.DIE.SPAMMER.DIE) with ESMTP id MAA08413 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:45:20 +0800 Received: from forge.cc.gatech.edu (gregh@forge.cc.gatech.edu [130.207.9.19]) by burdell.cc.gatech.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA11434 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:43:55 -0500 (EST) Received: (from gregh@localhost) by forge.cc.gatech.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA19343 for ldp-l@linux.org.au; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:43:55 -0500 (EST) From: gregh@cc.gatech.edu (Greg Hankins) Message-Id: <199902100443.XAA19343@forge.cc.gatech.edu> Subject: Re: LDP leadership To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:43:54 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <199902092218.RAA04941@pace.picante.com> from "Grant Taylor" at Feb 9, 99 05:18:39 pm X-PGP-fingerprint: 41 33 31 72 76 3F 42 DA AF E6 04 6D 36 79 6F EA X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Grant Taylor writes: >>>>>> Lars Wirzenius writes: >> * Trim down the LDP home page so that it concentrates on the LDP. >> At the moment, LDP stuff almost gets buried. We do not need to >> maintain a Linux link list or event calendar, I think. > >This is a good idea. It's always been a bit silly that you have to go >through various links on sunsite to find the howtos. And I've never >entirely liked the extra levels added by the HOWTO-Index being itself >a HOWTO: the HOWTO-Index TOC ends up being just an intermediate >nusiance. The HOWTO INDEX page is generated automagically from scripts, the LDP pages are generated through vi by me :-). Plus, good web design and from what I can remember from my HCI class (well, I seem to have slept through some of it) says not to stick everything on one page, but to break things down into sub-categories on different pages. This makes it easier to navigate and to maintain. The HOWTO INDEX was on the main LDP page for a long time, and it was a pain to maintain. There are workarounds to the technical aspect, but it still makes it too long. >Who, exactly, does what now? Tim is coordinator. Do we have a >separate leader? Is it Greg? Tim has complete control over the HOWTOs. I am not the leader by any means, right now noone really is. Regards, Greg -- Greg Hankins | Linux Documentation Project MS CS - Georgia Tech, College of Computing | Homepage and Linux Information http://www.cc.gatech.edu/staff/h/Greg.Hankins/ | http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:42 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id RAA19386 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 17:22:11 +1100 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id RAA16667 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 17:22:07 +1100 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) id OAA00258 for ldp-l-list; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:10:49 +0800 (WST) X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from nfs.aceonline.com.au (root@nfs.aceonline.com.au [203.62.135.41]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id OAA00231 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:10:43 +0800 (WST) Received: from burdell.cc.gatech.edu (root@burdell.cc.gatech.edu [130.207.3.207]) by nfs.aceonline.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8.DIE.SPAMMER.DIE) with ESMTP id MAA08616 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:57:04 +0800 Received: from forge.cc.gatech.edu (gregh@forge.cc.gatech.edu [130.207.9.19]) by burdell.cc.gatech.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA12355 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:55:46 -0500 (EST) Received: (from gregh@localhost) by forge.cc.gatech.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA19392 for ldp-l@linux.org.au; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:55:45 -0500 (EST) From: gregh@cc.gatech.edu (Greg Hankins) Message-Id: <199902100455.XAA19392@forge.cc.gatech.edu> Subject: Re: LDP leadership To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:55:45 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: from "Lars Wirzenius" at Feb 9, 99 11:11:40 pm X-PGP-fingerprint: 41 33 31 72 76 3F 42 DA AF E6 04 6D 36 79 6F EA X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Lars Wirzenius writes: >In this process, I've been talking to a few people outside the LDP and >have come to the conclusion that we are considered a closed, stagnating >group unwilling to co-operate with anyone. This is not true, but that's >the image people are seeing. I would have to agree. It is not true though but that isn't the issue, it is what people perceive to be true that needs addressing. I think Lars has many good ideas, and is thinking about issues that need attention. My only comments are below. > * Make a new, public, archived mailing list, ldp-discuss@whatever. There is already linux-doc@vger.rutgers.edu -- noone uses it however. Would this do? There are quite a few people on the list. If we started to use it, I think the response would be very positive. > * Trim down the LDP home page so that it concentrates on the LDP. > At the moment, LDP stuff almost gets buried. We do not need to > maintain a Linux link list or event calendar, I think. I disagree with this. The LDP web pages are part of the LDP, as well as an index to the LDP. They were some of the first Linux pages on the Net, and have a wealth of links and information. There are few web pages like the LDP page, that have such a large and diverse collection of links. Many people use the LDP page as a starting place, and not just for documentation. My goal is to keep the initial page small, so it will load quickly. Thus, I have most things linked from the main page. I could pull the LDP page back into the main page, but that would make it almost too large I think. If people think this should be done, then please let me know and I'll work on it ASAP. If you have any other suggestions, please send them my way... I will to continue as the LDP webmaster in the future. ObDisclaimer: I am not a gifted web page designer or artist. I have very little talent, but I think that keeps the pages simple and functional without a lot of fluff. Regards, Greg -- Greg Hankins | Linux Documentation Project MS CS - Georgia Tech, College of Computing | Homepage and Linux Information http://www.cc.gatech.edu/staff/h/Greg.Hankins/ | http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id RAA19378 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 17:21:40 +1100 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id RAA16656 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 17:21:35 +1100 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) id OAA00219 for ldp-l-list; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:10:13 +0800 (WST) X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from nfs.aceonline.com.au (root@nfs.aceonline.com.au [203.62.135.41]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id OAA00209 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:10:10 +0800 (WST) Received: from wallybox.cei.net (tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net [204.180.109.6]) by nfs.aceonline.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8.DIE.SPAMMER.DIE) with ESMTP id NAA09282 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:28:30 +0800 Received: from localhost (tjbynum@localhost) by wallybox.cei.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id XAA13440 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:34:39 -0600 Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:34:39 -0600 (CST) From: Tim To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: LDP leadership In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Hi, > * Concentrate on the LDP *process*: recruiting authors; formatting > manuscripts into all the various formats we wish to support; > publishing them; inviting and processing feedback; co-ordinating > translations, hardcopy publishing, and publicity. I personally tend to think that as a group we have quite a bit of power, and believe that *positive* publicity is what's in order. > The only change I suggest is to make it mandatory that LDP > documents can be modified by others -- the author may still > require that the name of the modified document be changed. This is a double-edged sword. I get these kind of requests often and try my best to stay out of it, but always ask those who wish to see changes contact the author first and come up with a solution *together* and perhaps then be included as one of the maintainers of the document. > * Open up LDP to the public: one of the big lessons of Linux is > that people will be enthusiastic about helping with things, > even if they aren't willing to become developers or authors > themselves. They're more than happy to send small fixes, or > make suggestions for improvements, if they feel someone will > listen to them. The LDP list is for authors only, and thus we > miss what the enthusiastic crowds can give us. This had been addressed before, in a sense anyhow regarding the mini authors not being involved. I must admit I didn't follow through on my original goal, but got very little feedback from the list. I would still like to see both groups on the same list....... > Concrete things: > > * Make a new, public, archived mailing list, ldp-discuss@whatever. I would be happy to host such a list, or possibly it could be maintained with the current ldp-l. > * Automate document submission, checking, formatting, and > publishing as much as possible. In the works and anyone who *really* wants to get involved then speak up (either on the list or to me personally) and perhaps this can take place sooner than later...... > * Allow several people to maintain the automation, so that > everything does not fall over when one person is ill. I don't disagree......trust me, I'm sure I'm not at the top of anyone's list right now, but a great deal of thought needs to be taken here. > * Convert all guides and howtos into DocBook. This includes > using a tool for the howtos (I think the tool exists already), > and finding or writing a short tutorial on DocBook that is > good enough to get our authors started. Agreed..... A tutorial is long overdue and I'd be happy to assist in this process. > * Start keeping track of documents and their maintainers: each > document should have a maintainer, and if the document doesn't > seem to be maintained, this should be noticed. This is currently being done. I will post a message to the list by the end of the week requesting updated information. If you have a specific idea in mind as to what to do with this list then just let me know. > I am not willing to do all the work myself, lazy bastard as I am. Thus, > before I commit myself: is the majority of the LDP authors willing to > go this path? I want explicit answers, and will interpret silence as > negative. Reply in public or in private, according to taste. We've all got a lazy streak, but I'll do what I can to assist in any way. As stated before, I'm in the process of a career change which will allow me quite a bit more spare time. This is *not* a wish but a reality that will take place in the next few weeks. Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@sunsite.unc.edu, linux-howto@sunsite.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tjbynum@scmc.com (Work) http://www.scmc.com:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id RAA19398 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 17:22:22 +1100 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id RAA16682 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 17:22:19 +1100 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) id OAA00221 for ldp-l-list; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:10:22 +0800 (WST) X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from nfs.aceonline.com.au (root@nfs.aceonline.com.au [203.62.135.41]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id OAA00207 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:10:10 +0800 (WST) Received: from wallybox.cei.net (tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net [204.180.109.6]) by nfs.aceonline.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8.DIE.SPAMMER.DIE) with ESMTP id NAA09386 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:34:16 +0800 Received: from localhost (tjbynum@localhost) by wallybox.cei.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id XAA13463 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:40:36 -0600 Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:40:36 -0600 (CST) From: Tim To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: LDP leadership In-Reply-To: <19990210071330.B19944@linux.org.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Hello, > Absolutely. Despite Greg's assertions to the contrary, I firmly believe > the document submission process can be automated in such a way that the > onus of corrections is placed back on the author and that the authors > refine their understanding of the DTD being used along the way. Trust me....it's a time consuming task. Regardless of the automation I believe that actually sticking your nose in there at times is worth the effort. Greg speaks from what he's observed, and I have done the same. This is *not* to say that there aren't better ways and some of the authors that have been around the longest or submit the most still goof, and no I'm not gonna point fingers. ;) Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@sunsite.unc.edu, linux-howto@sunsite.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tjbynum@scmc.com (Work) http://www.scmc.com:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id TAA19927 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 19:11:07 +1100 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id TAA16822 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 19:11:03 +1100 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) id PAA03204 for ldp-l-list; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 15:36:49 +0800 (WST) X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from mail.image.dk (mail010.image.dk [194.234.58.154]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id PAA03200 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 15:36:42 +0800 (WST) Received: (qmail 31839 invoked from network); 10 Feb 1999 07:36:40 -0000 Received: from pm23-11.image.dk (HELO hafnium.nkbj.dk) (194.234.169.139) by mail000.image.dk with SMTP; 10 Feb 1999 07:36:40 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hafnium.nkbj.dk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA15955 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:36:06 +0100 Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:36:06 +0100 (CET) From: Niels Kristian Bech Jensen X-Sender: nkbj@hafnium.nkbj.dk To: Linux Documentation Project authors list Subject: Re: LDP leadership In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On Tue, 9 Feb 1999, Lars Wirzenius wrote: [...] > I am willing to lead if people are willing to follow. I have a vision > of improving the LDP on the following lines: > You've got my vote. [...] > * Make a new, public, archived mailing list, ldp-discuss@whatever. > A newsgroup would be better IMHO. [...] > * Convert all guides and howtos into DocBook. This includes > using a tool for the howtos (I think the tool exists already), > and finding or writing a short tutorial on DocBook that is > good enough to get our authors started. > Let's get the tutorial first, then we can start thinking about the conversion. -- Niels Kristian Bech Jensen -- nkbj@image.dk -- http://www.image.dk/~nkbj/ ----------->> Stop software piracy --- use free software! <<----------- From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA21529 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 01:11:48 +1100 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA16910 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 01:11:44 +1100 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) id VAA01984 for ldp-l-list; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 21:56:49 +0800 (WST) X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from auratek.auroratech.com (auratek.auroratech.com [199.105.157.129]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id VAA01980 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 21:56:44 +0800 (WST) Received: from auratek.com (IDENT:markk@wayga [199.105.157.164]) by auratek.auroratech.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA28079 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:56:25 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36C19079.9228DDE@auratek.com> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:58:17 -0500 From: Mark Komarinski X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.34 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: LDP leadership References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Lars Wirzenius wrote: > I am not willing to do all the work myself, lazy bastard as I am. Thus, > before I commit myself: is the majority of the LDP authors willing to > go this path? I want explicit answers, and will interpret silence as > negative. Reply in public or in private, according to taste. You da man. Let's do it. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Carlo Gavazzi IPC | Mark F. Komarinski - Compatability Engineer| 176 Second Ave | mfk@auroratech.com - www.auroratech.com | Waltham, MA 02451 USA | Ph: 781-290-4800 x138 Fx: 781-290-5358 | From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id IAA23633 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:36:35 +1100 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id IAA17465 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:36:31 +1100 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) id FAA10991 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 05:11:11 +0800 (WST) X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from doughnut.remcomp.fr (alpha-dummy.remcomp.fr [194.51.30.245]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id FAA10987 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 05:11:05 +0800 (WST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by lmm.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with UUCP id VAA24820 for ldp-l@linux.org.au; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 21:11:41 +0100 Received: by barberouge via sendmail with stdio id for ldp-l@linux.org.au; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:41:41 +0100 (CET) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #1 built 1999-Jan-23) Message-ID: <19990210184141.B1590@barberouge.linux.lmm.com> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:41:41 +0100 From: Guylhem Aznar To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: LDP leadership References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2 In-Reply-To: ; from Lars Wirzenius on Tue, Feb 09, 1999 at 11:11:40PM +0200 X-Brain: Is anybody here ? X-Stupid-idea: No, I think there's only me ! Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On Tue, Feb 09, 1999 at 11:11:40PM +0200, Lars Wirzenius wrote: > * Convert all guides and howtos into DocBook. This includes > using a tool for the howtos (I think the tool exists already), > and finding or writing a short tutorial on DocBook that is > good enough to get our authors started. > > * Talk to the Linux distributions and find out if we can make > things easier for them. For example, could we provide LDP > stuff as .rpm and .deb packages? Some weeks ago I bought an IBM notebook with windows installed. There was an interesting app I think we should try to imitate : the root window contained an html page with links to the documentation on the hard disk and to web sites. What about an app which would be installed by default and let users browse through the whole documentation in the root window ? BTW, it didn't break background pixmap :) -- ____/| "Letting people bear arms is letting them kill our children" \ o.O| Enlever rrremovethis / Remove rrremovethis =(_)= Salut / Best regards \u/ Guylhem AZNAR From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id RAA19370 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 17:21:16 +1100 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id RAA16645 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 17:21:12 +1100 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) id OAA00220 for ldp-l-list; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:10:14 +0800 (WST) X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from nfs.aceonline.com.au (root@nfs.aceonline.com.au [203.62.135.41]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id OAA00211 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:10:10 +0800 (WST) Received: from wallybox.cei.net (tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net [204.180.109.6]) by nfs.aceonline.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8.DIE.SPAMMER.DIE) with ESMTP id NAA08989 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:14:09 +0800 Received: from localhost (tjbynum@localhost) by wallybox.cei.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id XAA13402 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:20:06 -0600 Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:20:03 -0600 (CST) From: Tim To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: HOWTO uploads In-Reply-To: <199902092218.RAA04941@pace.picante.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Hello, The first batch of updates is in the process of uploading now. I've come across quite a few errors in submissions and will be contacting the authors (which haven't already been notified.) I also think that it's high-time that folks start following the guidelines for HOWTOs (meaning formatting). I'm not whining, but if you knew how much it takes to scan/correct and/or notify the author you'd see my point. Perhaps not updating HOWTOs that don't pass a few simple checks should be returned? I know this sounds petty, but I get the impression (and I completely concur) that the process needs to be streamlined. Anyhow, I submit a listing of all the HOWTOs (yes FAQs and minis as well) to Linux Today. I plan to continue this process and will also open myself up to sending to whomever else would like it. I'll do what I can to contact other sites, but if anyone disagrees with this, sees it as a waste of time, or would like to contact other sites about it, then let's hear about it. For now the information is kept on my box at the following address: lynx http://wallybox.cei.net/~tjbynum/HOWTO/projects/updates.txt The user/pass is howto/pass Any and all feedback (good, bad or indifferent) is always appreciated. Docs that don't show will be hit with the second upload. I watch this process to make sure everything gets where it should be and it takes quite some time, so splitting it up a little makes things a little easier on me. But feel free to contact me if you think you've been left out in the cold. Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@sunsite.unc.edu, linux-howto@sunsite.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tjbynum@scmc.com (Work) http://www.scmc.com:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id RAA26288 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 17:59:01 +1100 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id RAA17762 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 17:58:58 +1100 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) id OAA16187 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:46:17 +0800 (WST) X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from burdell.cc.gatech.edu (root@burdell.cc.gatech.edu [130.207.3.207]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id OAA16183 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:46:12 +0800 (WST) Received: from forge.cc.gatech.edu (gregh@forge.cc.gatech.edu [130.207.9.19]) by burdell.cc.gatech.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA02249 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 01:46:06 -0500 (EST) Received: (from gregh@localhost) by forge.cc.gatech.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA29313 for ldp-l@linux.org.au; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 01:46:05 -0500 (EST) From: gregh@cc.gatech.edu (Greg Hankins) Message-Id: <199902110646.BAA29313@forge.cc.gatech.edu> Subject: Can someone make a PDF? To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 01:46:04 -0500 (EST) X-PGP-fingerprint: 41 33 31 72 76 3F 42 DA AF E6 04 6D 36 79 6F EA X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Can any of you make PDF files? The Users' Guide needs a new PDF made... the old one is hosed and it is especially important for us to make this one available in something a Windows user can get. ftp://metalab.unc.edu/pub/Linux/docs/linux-doc-project/users-guide/ has various sources. Thanks, Greg -- Greg Hankins | Linux Documentation Project MS CS - Georgia Tech, College of Computing | Homepage and Linux Information http://www.cc.gatech.edu/staff/h/Greg.Hankins/ | http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id UAA27010 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 20:47:09 +1100 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id UAA17842 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 20:47:05 +1100 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) id RAA17363 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 17:30:12 +0800 (WST) X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from mail.powertech.no (login1.powertech.no [195.159.0.151]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id RAA17359 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 17:30:06 +0800 (WST) Received: from draugen.kvaleberg.no (root@s01i21-0045.no.powertech.net [195.159.4.109]) by mail.powertech.no (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA12015 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:30:01 +0100 Received: (from egil@localhost) by draugen.kvaleberg.no (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA08432; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:29:43 +0100 Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:29:43 +0100 (MET) From: Egil Kvaleberg To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: Can someone make a PDF? In-Reply-To: <199902110646.BAA29313@forge.cc.gatech.edu> Message-ID: <%nJqw2w0Gt@draugen.kvaleberg.no> X-User-Agent: Mana 4.0beta (Linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On Thu, 11 Feb 1999, you wrote: > Can any of you make PDF files? Free software comes to your aid. I've made one using the ps2pdf utility available in recent Ghostscript versions, and sent to you by seperate mail. Egil PS: Hopefully, your mailbox isn't already filled to the brim with PDF-files. -- Email: egil@kvaleberg.no Voice: +47 22523641, 92022780 Fax: +47 22525899 Mail: Egil Kvaleberg, Husebybakken 14A, 0379 Oslo, Norway Home: http://www.kvaleberg.no/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA28305 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 01:49:00 +1100 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA18704 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 01:48:57 +1100 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) id WAA19420 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 22:27:26 +0800 (WST) X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from wallybox.cei.net (tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net [204.180.109.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id WAA19416 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 22:27:21 +0800 (WST) Received: from localhost (tjbynum@localhost) by wallybox.cei.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id IAA18763 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:34:11 -0600 Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:34:10 -0600 (CST) From: Tim To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: Can someone make a PDF? In-Reply-To: <%nJqw2w0Gt@draugen.kvaleberg.no> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk > > Can any of you make PDF files? Is this something we should consider adding for other documents as well?? Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@sunsite.unc.edu, linux-howto@sunsite.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tjbynum@scmc.com (Work) http://www.scmc.com:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA28612 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 02:58:01 +1100 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA19004 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 02:57:58 +1100 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) id XAA19982 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 23:30:41 +0800 (WST) X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from eros.cs.hut.fi (eros.cs.hut.fi [130.233.193.40]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id XAA19978 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 23:30:36 +0800 (WST) Received: from eros.cs.hut.fi (really [127.0.0.1]) by eros.cs.hut.fi via in.smtpd with esmtp id (Debian Smail3.2.0.102) for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 17:30:33 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 (debian) From: Lars Wirzenius X-No-Archive: yes To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: Can someone make a PDF? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:34:10 CST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="==_Exmh_-1233558172P"; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 17:30:27 +0200 Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk --==_Exmh_-1233558172P Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii [ Please don't Cc: public replies to me. ] Tim: > > > Can any of you make PDF files? > Is this something we should consider adding for other documents as well?? I think it would be great to provide as many formats as possible, as automatically as possible. Once we have everything converted to DocBook, it should be trivial (well, should be possible even with the Linuxdoc DTD). --==_Exmh_-1233558172P Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.6.3ia iQCVAwUBNsL3kYQRll5MupLRAQFH4gP/asoOuOa6C5elg3yPlvbyhZ0RC4T+4grK KW9EXXU/wF9otB1Sfn+J0Esxpnmhjo6CIE/wm9UxEGs6LVcSCfOoFTloJosh9e0s 814bPlMOfHMiL69cqbqvhkmL0GxWdUTWdDkIcq3IDWJ/3Cj202ZReuetmoMZjf4j uLQ12GGmNyo= =gp9I -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --==_Exmh_-1233558172P-- From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id DAA28641 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 03:03:28 +1100 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id DAA19015 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 03:03:25 +1100 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) id XAA20139 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 23:46:27 +0800 (WST) X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from eros.cs.hut.fi (eros.cs.hut.fi [130.233.193.40]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id XAA20135 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 23:46:22 +0800 (WST) Received: from eros.cs.hut.fi (really [127.0.0.1]) by eros.cs.hut.fi via in.smtpd with esmtp id (Debian Smail3.2.0.102) for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 17:46:21 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 (debian) From: Lars Wirzenius X-No-Archive: yes To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Usurping power on Monday Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="==_Exmh_-1233121690P"; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 17:46:20 +0200 Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk --==_Exmh_-1233121690P Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii [ Please don't Cc: public replies to me. ] I don't seem to be getting negative responses, but it's only been a couple of days. Unless anyone objects by Monday, I will begin as LDP Leader then and will start doing things. (I'm have some deadlines this week and will be partying all weekend, thus not before Monday.) --==_Exmh_-1233121690P Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.6.3ia iQCVAwUBNsL7SoQRll5MupLRAQFyfQP9ENVtde0ccLRBdtx9x36XvcIO72HEmv3m ogtzuUnKNneOBMnxskOrH/uAdTRhwGoB+Gyvern1Q6yLdzqheG+X7K73QYkrDBHt E/eqhwOUhfSoYkmhcI4ObNQq8Es9n+k1Sdb+eC/SkDdA623BLtFQtMA7iH2N9ZgL OiIB3xeERRk= =GE3t -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --==_Exmh_-1233121690P-- From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id DAA01049 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 03:51:32 +1100 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id DAA30201 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 03:51:27 +1100 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) id AAA28238 for ldp-l-list; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 00:30:11 +0800 (WST) X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from eros.cs.hut.fi (eros.cs.hut.fi [130.233.193.40]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA28234 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 00:29:58 +0800 (WST) Received: from eros.cs.hut.fi (really [127.0.0.1]) by eros.cs.hut.fi via in.smtpd with esmtp id (Debian Smail3.2.0.102) for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:29:50 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 (debian) From: Lars Wirzenius X-No-Archive: yes To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: LDP leadership; now what? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="==_Exmh_-347402116P"; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:29:44 +0200 Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk --==_Exmh_-347402116P Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii [ Please don't Cc: public replies to me. ] OK, since I don't see anyone objecting, I declare myself leader of the LDP. I don't imagine to have any real power, except that which comes from persuasion and doing as I preach. Thus, even though I am going to make decisions (sometimes without discussing issues at length on the list), they will have effect only if people accept them. I would like to get the following things done asap: - Create a public mailing list, and move discussion there. I'm not sure it's a good idea to hijack the linux-doc@vger list, a new list would probably be better. I'm open to suggestions, of course. Would a lpd-discuss@linux.org.au be possible? Or I could ask, say, the Debian people to host the new list. - Find or write a tutorial on DocBook. I could write a brief one, but I'm not really adept at DocBook or SGML, and I have the impression there are people already on this list who are. Volunteers? - Automate the process of handling howtos: checking that they are at least syntactically valid, formatting them automatically into all the different formats, and publishing the results on a web page. When the results have been checked manually by the author, they can be moved into the main howto storage on metalab.unc.edu. Thus, all the work to make the howto source code be syntactically correct and checking the results is done by the authors, not the person managing the howto collection; this is as it should be. Whether this is done via a CVS server or a mail bot is an open question. We could have both. I'm fairly confident I can get Debian to host a CVS server for us, at least if we don't give anonymous access to it. (We could replace that with automatic daily snapshots.) I'd like to work on this. --==_Exmh_-347402116P Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.6.3ia iQCVAwUBNshLdoQRll5MupLRAQHTcwP/UQljDzKm4Qb4ga6D//qHxsdAIpMuTCfN o40JGS/ZcRm7vzjh/SQKFouu/uYsQQlExfpdR+9upFNfFQFe9OebXhHn/bbadSKX E4/dXERyQqw7I7IjM3gj7KrKfMWTDh4QCyGHkQu5KhDyaqFGoDruGhawtP+CBqcj qzy6bCUEgxE= =UmtG -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --==_Exmh_-347402116P-- From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA01141 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 04:12:28 +1100 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA30214 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 04:12:22 +1100 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) id BAA28379 for ldp-l-list; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 01:02:42 +0800 (WST) X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from cmpu.net (IDENT:kclark@dal-as1-1210.cmpu.net [204.181.109.211]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA28374 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 01:02:36 +0800 (WST) Received: (from kclark@localhost) by cmpu.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA19969; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:01:29 -0600 From: Kendall Clark MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:01:28 -0600 (CST) To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: LDP leadership; now what? In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <14024.20750.218379.261879@cmpu.net> Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Lars, et. al., How about an 'executive ruling' about whether and whence the migration to DocBook from LinuxDoc? I.e., can I submit new versions of my HOWTO in DocBook? Is the HOWTO maintainer ready to handle that yet? Is the 'automated' system you are going to work on targetted at DocBook at LinuxDoc? On a related note, I'm volunteering to work on a CSS stylesheet for DocBook-derived HOWTOs. I've been doing that pretty consistently for the past year or so, and I've got several good base CSS stylesheets to start from. I for one would like to see the LDP HOWTOs leave behind the 'old gray look' and become a bit more modern looking. For an example of what DocBook + CSS HTML pages can look like, see: http://ntlug.org/casbah/capi/ http://ntlug.org/~kclark/roadmap/ CSS degrades very nicely, if done right, on Lynx and older browsers (except for tables, which Lynx still doesn't get right very often, it seems). Best, Kendall Clark Lars Wirzenius writes: > [ Please don't Cc: public replies to me. ] > > OK, since I don't see anyone objecting, I declare myself leader of the > LDP. I don't imagine to have any real power, except that which comes from > persuasion and doing as I preach. Thus, even though I am going to make > decisions (sometimes without discussing issues at length on the list), > they will have effect only if people accept them. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA01212 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 04:28:22 +1100 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA30228 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 04:28:16 +1100 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) id BAA28457 for ldp-l-list; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 01:17:29 +0800 (WST) X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from eros.cs.hut.fi (eros.cs.hut.fi [130.233.193.40]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA28453 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 01:17:24 +0800 (WST) Received: from eros.cs.hut.fi (really [127.0.0.1]) by eros.cs.hut.fi via in.smtpd with esmtp id (Debian Smail3.2.0.102) for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:17:22 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 (debian) From: Lars Wirzenius X-No-Archive: yes To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: LDP leadership; now what? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:01:28 CST." <14024.20750.218379.261879@cmpu.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="==_Exmh_-579965880P"; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:17:21 +0200 Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk --==_Exmh_-579965880P Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii [ Please don't Cc: public replies to me. ] Kendall Clark: > How about an 'executive ruling' about whether and whence the migration > to DocBook from LinuxDoc? Howtos should be in the current Linuxdoc format until we have the new upload procedure working and a DocBook tutorial is available. Then only DocBook sources will be accepted. There is a conversion tool for converting Linuxdoc to DocBook, so I think we can make the switch quickly once the time is right. > On a related note, I'm volunteering to work on a CSS stylesheet for Great! (Now, if only Netscape would support CSS without Javascript. :) --==_Exmh_-579965880P Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.6.3ia iQCVAwUBNshWn4QRll5MupLRAQHxSgQAwGNBIJa+OaEz7/B/S+vAVMS/NDdwPPQX Zj3yFaAY5+EyO5cssM12/XGhw2rbi3LDqMWm8FLQpgMQzxORUlmfi+z1GpoF+1Md wsSgB/2TRqIzcsEAuIiKBnRM9SSax1FHT81kZ9Gx0DVXPFALE7fzL8BCvJFKod+m t4EnqXQfjYU= =XdJF -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --==_Exmh_-579965880P-- From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id FAA01391 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 05:05:51 +1100 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id FAA30277 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 05:05:45 +1100 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) id BAA28578 for ldp-l-list; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 01:45:56 +0800 (WST) X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from zen.ics.uwe.ac.uk (IDENT:barlow@zen.btc.uwe.ac.uk [164.11.100.4]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA28570 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 01:45:36 +0800 (WST) Received: (from barlow@localhost) by zen.ics.uwe.ac.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA27969; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:45:14 GMT Message-ID: <19990215174513.64959@zen.ics.uwe.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:45:13 +0000 From: Daniel Barlow To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: LDP leadership; now what? References: <14024.20750.218379.261879@cmpu.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e In-Reply-To: ; from Lars Wirzenius on Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 07:17:21PM +0200 X-Url: http://www.telent.net X-Parrot: You stunned him! Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 07:17:21PM +0200, Lars Wirzenius wrote: > > How about an 'executive ruling' about whether and whence the migration > > to DocBook from LinuxDoc? > > Howtos should be in the current Linuxdoc format until we have the new > upload procedure working and a DocBook tutorial is available. Then > only DocBook sources will be accepted. There is a conversion tool for That sounds uncomfortably like a flag day. To accommodate people who think they can write docbook without the aid of a tutorial, how about replacing that "should" with "can"? (Side benefit; it gives you material to test your automated scripts with ;-) -dan From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id IAA02402 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 08:25:40 +1100 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id IAA30494 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 08:25:36 +1100 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) id FAA04776 for ldp-l-list; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 05:13:49 +0800 (WST) X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from lafn.org (lafn.ORG [206.117.18.1]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id FAA04771 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 05:13:42 +0800 (WST) Received: by lafn.org id AA03778 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ldp-l@linux.org.au); Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:13:35 -0800 Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:13:35 -0800 Message-Id: <199902152113.AA03778@lafn.org> From: bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer) To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: LDP leadership; now what? Reply-To: bf347@lafn.org Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Lars Wirzenius wrote: > - Automate the process of handling howtos: checking that they > are at least syntactically valid, formatting them automatically > into all the different formats, and publishing the results > on a web page. When the results have been checked manually by > the author, they can be moved into the main howto storage on > metalab.unc.edu. Thus, all the work to make the howto source > code be syntactically correct and checking the results is done > by the authors, not the person managing the howto collection; > this is as it should be. > I think that most of the work of checking over a HOWTO should be done by the authors but checking again by someone else may reveal mistakes the author overlooked. Magazine and book publishers do have editors for this. I'm not proposing the coordinator should do this but it would be nice to have proofreaders. In some cases the need for documentation is so urgent that it's best to post the document without proofreading and then proofread it for the next version of it. I can't see much difference between the author checking manually on a website and cheking manually on his PC. What if the author says that his stuff on the Website is OK without adequately looking at it? If the new version is only a minor correction, there shouldn't be any need to check over the whole document again or to put it at a website for this. Thus I think that the existing system with the automation currently being implemented should be OK. We need to have a policy that the coordinator does not normally correct typos, and submissions with typos should be "returned" to the author. Some form letters might be useful. What's needed is a reminder to authors that they should carefully check their documents before submitting. This should be sent out periodically to all authors and also to authors who submit defective documents. The reminder should change a little each time to reflect the current situation. However, in some cases the sgml software creates bad documents even if the author has formatted them correctly. I found that using braces {} in headings fouled up conversion to latex. Finding this "error" was not easy. Text howto's still have blank "pages" inserted by a bug in SGML. I fix them by using "cat -s" on the file. This needs to be done before putting them on the websites for distribution. It should be part of the automation package. I hope all this automation is well documented so that others can readily understand how to use it. David Lawyer From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA01324 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 04:53:53 +1100 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA30243 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 04:53:49 +1100 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) id BAA28545 for ldp-l-list; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 01:40:50 +0800 (WST) X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from lafn.org (lafn.ORG [206.117.18.1]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id BAA28541 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 01:40:46 +0800 (WST) Received: by lafn.org id AA25670 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ldp-l@linux.org.au); Mon, 15 Feb 1999 09:40:36 -0800 Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 09:40:36 -0800 Message-Id: <199902151740.AA25670@lafn.org> From: bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer) To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: HOWTOs at LDP hard to find Reply-To: bf347@lafn.org Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id FAA01425 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 05:11:23 +1100 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id FAA30300 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 05:11:16 +1100 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) id BAA28636 for ldp-l-list; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 01:56:16 +0800 (WST) X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from zen.ics.uwe.ac.uk (IDENT:barlow@zen.btc.uwe.ac.uk [164.11.100.4]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA28632 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 01:55:54 +0800 (WST) Received: (from barlow@localhost) by zen.ics.uwe.ac.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA28044; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:55:35 GMT Message-ID: <19990215175535.42160@zen.ics.uwe.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:55:35 +0000 From: Daniel Barlow To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: HOWTOs at LDP hard to find References: <199902151740.AA25670@lafn.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e In-Reply-To: <199902151740.AA25670@lafn.org>; from David Lawyer on Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 09:40:36AM -0800 X-Url: http://www.telent.net X-Parrot: You stunned him! Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 09:40:36AM -0800, David Lawyer wrote: > Quite. -dan From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id TAA05389 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:30:44 +1100 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id TAA31223 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:30:27 +1100 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) id QAA10277 for ldp-l-list; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:07:26 +0800 (WST) X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from blinky.bfr.co.il (hjstein@morannon.bfr.co.il [192.116.142.129]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id QAA10273 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:07:16 +0800 (WST) Received: (from hjstein@localhost) by blinky.bfr.co.il (8.8.5/8.6.9) id KAA09766; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:06:53 +0200 To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: LDP leadership; now what? References: CC: hjstein@bfr.co.il From: hjstein@bfr.co.il (Harvey J. Stein) Date: 16 Feb 1999 10:06:53 +0200 In-Reply-To: Lars Wirzenius's message of "Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:17:21 +0200" Message-ID: Lines: 21 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.4/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Lars Wirzenius writes: > Kendall Clark: > > How about an 'executive ruling' about whether and whence the migration > > to DocBook from LinuxDoc? > > Howtos should be in the current Linuxdoc format until we have the > new upload procedure working and a DocBook tutorial is > available. Then only DocBook sources will be accepted. There is a > conversion tool for converting Linuxdoc to DocBook, so I think we > can make the switch quickly once the time is right. Can I add the condition on switching that there also are docbook tools commonly available which can produce plain text, postscript, html & info output? -- Harvey J. Stein BFM Financial Research hjstein@bfr.co.il From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id DAA14435 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 03:04:11 +1100 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id DAA02259 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 03:04:04 +1100 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) id XAA30624 for ldp-l-list; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 23:49:50 +0800 (WST) X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from eros.cs.hut.fi (eros.cs.hut.fi [130.233.193.40]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id XAA30620 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 23:49:42 +0800 (WST) Received: from eros.cs.hut.fi (really [127.0.0.1]) by eros.cs.hut.fi via in.smtpd with esmtp id (Debian Smail3.2.0.102) for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:49:41 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 (debian) From: Lars Wirzenius X-No-Archive: yes To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: LDP leadership; now what? In-Reply-To: Your message of "16 Feb 1999 10:06:53 +0200." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="==_Exmh_656267404P"; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:49:41 +0200 Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk --==_Exmh_656267404P Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii [ Please don't Cc: public replies to me. ] Harvey J. Stein: > Can I add the condition on switching that there also are docbook tools > commonly available which can produce plain text, postscript, html & > info output? Postscript and HTML work already, and I assume plain text should be simple. I don't know whether Info works, nor whether there are plans for it, but since we don't provide it now, it shouldn't be a problem when switching. (I'm all for providing every possible output format.) --==_Exmh_656267404P Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.6.3ia iQCVAwUBNsrlE4QRll5MupLRAQHp2AQAgBc42QcH9Z4q6uIkmBehePTxanXhUfWk vz3OGqOBm+ystbozmzFyuHA89u15fZ08JYbWtCMjs6gBnJt74gByy9qibHZtzip+ 2Zx2NyQ+VbczBFvelrorfXOKVOqYr0/ehFbHaWzA0r5SJPq9Jk6r9E76BV5S4Ken G/528bjjuHY= =VOMo -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --==_Exmh_656267404P-- From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id DAA14481 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 03:14:02 +1100 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id DAA02271 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 03:13:54 +1100 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) id XAA30685 for ldp-l-list; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 23:59:12 +0800 (WST) X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from eros.cs.hut.fi (eros.cs.hut.fi [130.233.193.40]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id XAA30681 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 23:59:07 +0800 (WST) Received: from eros.cs.hut.fi (really [127.0.0.1]) by eros.cs.hut.fi via in.smtpd with esmtp id (Debian Smail3.2.0.102) for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:59:06 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 (debian) From: Lars Wirzenius X-No-Archive: yes To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: LDP leadership; now what? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:13:35 PST." <199902152113.AA03778@lafn.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="==_Exmh_658961578P"; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:59:06 +0200 Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk --==_Exmh_658961578P Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii [ Please don't Cc: public replies to me. ] David Lawyer: > I think that most of the work of checking over a HOWTO should be done by > the authors but checking again by someone else may reveal mistakes the > author overlooked. Magazine and book publishers do have editors for this. > I'm not proposing the coordinator should do this but it would be nice to > have proofreaders. Proofreaders are certainly nice! However, I find that publishing a document and using readers as proofreaders works fairly well. If we combine this with a "publish early, publish often" strategy, it should be possible to get lots of errors removed quickly. For authors that want it, we can have a separate page that lists "beta test versions" of documents. > I can't see much difference between the author checking manually on a > website and cheking manually on his PC. The author might not have all the formatting software, or might have a different version. Thus, it's necessary that the author check the actual version that is going to be published. > What if the author says that his stuff on the Website is OK without > adequately looking at it? If he fails to find problems, his readers will and then he'll get lots of mails telling him about them. I see no problem with this. :) > If the new version is only a minor correction, there shouldn't be any need > to check over the whole document again or to put it at a website for this. We could make the checking be optional, or otherwise streamline the process. It must be easy and quick. > I hope all this automation is well documented so that > others can readily understand how to use it. Well, I certainly hope that the LDP is able to document its own stuff. :) --==_Exmh_658961578P Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.6.3ia iQCVAwUBNsrnSIQRll5MupLRAQElYwQAmNgGot/oW9u6oJSZE6sdShU7IgG0vsDV 1X75nfE5zC7F3hnpddb9uzsmEL3+Lf6j+kmT6yr/Gd+g7pTvvI40qFAYRwWwCO5e TX1ZsXcd/FrdZI/0B/mczI7frTwZGoBFOOIm12vqTKkw+d3eexr/vT65+zIWUdwC p8QdJMlN3J4= =KyL6 -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --==_Exmh_658961578P-- From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA07180 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 02:00:38 +1100 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA32327 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 02:00:23 +1100 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) id WAA12378 for ldp-l-list; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:19:31 +0800 (WST) X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from raje.ks-t.no (raje.ks-t.no [193.71.171.194]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id WAA12374 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:19:24 +0800 (WST) Received: from stanga.ks-t.no (unverified) by raje.ks-t.no (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id for ; ti, 16 feb 1999 15:11:20 +0100 Received: from mail.nyx.net (pc130.ks-t.no [193.71.169.130]) by stanga.ks-t.no with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id 18YS67KW; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:15:02 +0100 Message-Id: <36C97E3E.17C2DA14@mail.nyx.net> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:18:38 +0100 From: Stein Gjoen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: LDP Subject: Another HOWTO, by GG! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Well, I guess a few of you have seen it but for those who haven't: Gartner Group has made a "How To" for introducing into the corporative world: "How and When to Adopt Linux in MSEs " http://advisor.gartner.com/n_inbox/hotcontent/hc_2121999_1.html Who would have thought it? More seriously speaking, is there a need for a "linux Introduction HOWTO" that is more hands-on? Regards, Stein Gjoen From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id GAA08308 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 06:24:46 +1100 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id GAA32649 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 06:24:31 +1100 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) id DAA20348 for ldp-l-list; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 03:11:03 +0800 (WST) X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from pace.picante.com (IDENT:root@pace.picante.com [199.103.241.49]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id DAA20344 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 03:10:54 +0800 (WST) Received: from pace.picante.com (gtaylor@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pace.picante.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA09201 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:10:31 -0500 Message-Id: <199902161910.OAA09201@pace.picante.com> To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: testers wanted for new printing howto companion website Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:10:30 -0500 From: Grant Taylor Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk This message is perhaps a bit off-topic for this list, but it is somewhat howto related, so here goes... I've setup a database-driven printer compatibility listing which will become both a companion to and part of the Printing HOWTO - I'll extract just the names and list them briefly inside the HOWTO, and also refer people to the web page for all the details. (If the Hardware-HOWTO person wants to inherit a printer section from this, I'm all for that, too). The listing is interactive; anyone can add to or edit things (so long as they volunteer a working email address). I wrote the scripts last night in a frenzy of Perl, and now I need to get the bugs out. Hopefully a few of you who have 5 minutes to spare can play with it - just look at the listing, add a printer, edit a printer, etc. Then send me bug reports, suggestions, impressions, whatever you like... URL: http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/pht/printer_list.cgi -- Grant Taylor - gtaylor@picante.com - http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/ Cellphone information: http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/cell/ Libretto information: http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/portable/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA14348 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 02:47:45 +1100 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA02225 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 02:47:37 +1100 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) id XAA30488 for ldp-l-list; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 23:27:20 +0800 (WST) X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from eros.cs.hut.fi (eros.cs.hut.fi [130.233.193.40]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id XAA30484 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 23:27:14 +0800 (WST) Received: from eros.cs.hut.fi (really [127.0.0.1]) by eros.cs.hut.fi via in.smtpd with esmtp id (Debian Smail3.2.0.102) for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:27:08 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 (debian) From: Lars Wirzenius X-No-Archive: yes To: LDP Subject: Re: Now! (Was: LDP and accessibility) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:17:29 +0100." <36A83419.FBF6F6F5@mail.nyx.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="==_Exmh_650036778P"; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:27:06 +0200 Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk --==_Exmh_650036778P Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii [ Please don't Cc: public replies to me. ] Stein Gjoen: > Wether we choose (7) or even (ldp) I feel we should move on, fast, The section should probably be 7ldp. I see no reason not to do this, but I don't have the time myself. Also, I find the dwww program in Debian to be a preferable solution: it gives access to all on-line documentation via one interface (a web browser). Of course, I'm biased since I wrote dwww originally (it's now Jim Pick's toy). For a demonstration, look at . For making access to LDP stuff as easy as possible on any given distribution, we're going to have to work with the developers of that distribution. For example, Debian has a scheme for registering documents centrally, which we should use. Red Hat might have something similar. --==_Exmh_650036778P Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.6.3ia iQCVAwUBNsrfyYQRll5MupLRAQFRewQAyM61fi/XeSJcGHIVM/Fqag/n+cz7tQWC EReXQHoCsvbM4cH6sWmeQU6M8JclPZ9/tKSB5igf42MnKeZkd9qpdxpAMbhd9Rnd cyNi5RLUDQNLsBb0nt/s5zlJyjTVbbEThIVcdACGj5HTUhK+LCSrTb68pT/hSV4v SZrVk26EISk= =vdO6 -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --==_Exmh_650036778P-- From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id DAA14525 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 03:23:29 +1100 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id DAA02285 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 03:23:23 +1100 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) id AAA30741 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 00:03:50 +0800 (WST) X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from eros.cs.hut.fi (eros.cs.hut.fi [130.233.193.40]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA30737 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 00:03:42 +0800 (WST) Received: from eros.cs.hut.fi (really [127.0.0.1]) by eros.cs.hut.fi via in.smtpd with esmtp id (Debian Smail3.2.0.102) for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:03:41 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 (debian) From: Lars Wirzenius X-No-Archive: yes To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: DocBook working group Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="==_Exmh_671328004P"; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:03:40 +0200 Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk --==_Exmh_671328004P Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii [ Please don't Cc: public replies to me. ] I've asked Kendall Clark to head a DocBook working working for writing a "Using DocBook for LDP Content" guide. This would include or refer to a DocBook tutorial, contain a style guide (which tags to use for what purpose), and include a sample document for people wanting to learn DocBook. Anyone wanting to help with this should talk to Kendall directly. --==_Exmh_671328004P Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.6.3ia iQCVAwUBNsroW4QRll5MupLRAQECDAQAjgNLehyJAqYE+mgJOFZoFGejHZPfklfF 9znb7ekDQRuES/bt5Uu1+S/FxG28antUgy5othSQjp3wo0hTCavKIp8b8JJnKrND plTkB/F1vfEuijOKSDZJXN0ZKMhoLns1LWvPwY2tDvmmZP2gLwg7+hozCamsVq0n Gx312dFaF48= =Fm7u -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --==_Exmh_671328004P-- From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA14869 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 04:43:57 +1100 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA02306 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 04:43:49 +1100 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) id BAA30986 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 01:25:26 +0800 (WST) X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from cmpu.net (IDENT:kclark@dal-as1-1210.cmpu.net [204.181.109.211]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA30982 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 01:25:17 +0800 (WST) Received: (from kclark@localhost) by cmpu.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA26456; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:23:39 -0600 From: Kendall Clark MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:23:38 -0600 (CST) To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: DocBook working group In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <14026.64109.626223.704253@cmpu.net> Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Lars Wirzenius writes: > [ Please don't Cc: public replies to me. ] > > I've asked Kendall Clark to head a DocBook working working for writing a > "Using DocBook for LDP Content" guide. This would include or refer to > a DocBook tutorial, contain a style guide (which tags to use for what > purpose), and include a sample document for people wanting to learn > DocBook. > > Anyone wanting to help with this should talk to Kendall directly. [I've got to stop replying to Lars, instead of the list! :> ] You can contact me at kclark@ntlug.org about this, especially if you have DocBook or SGML experience. I think we might want to start a temporary mailing list for these discussions, and I can do that at ntlug.org. If there isn't a lot of DocBook experience among the members of this list, I'm going to ask a few of you who are *interested* in DocBook to participate in this working group, and I'll recruit some non-LDP authors to join us and help out with the ``heavy lifting''. Best, Kendall Clark From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA16296 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:23:43 +1100 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA02739 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:23:38 +1100 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) id GAA06632 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 06:05:38 +0800 (WST) X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from pace.picante.com (IDENT:root@pace.picante.com [199.103.241.49]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.2/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id GAA06627 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 06:05:29 +0800 (WST) Received: from pace.picante.com (gtaylor@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pace.picante.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA11628 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:05:13 -0500 Message-Id: <199902172205.RAA11628@pace.picante.com> To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: includes in sgml-tools-1? Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:05:11 -0500 From: Grant Taylor Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk How do you specify an include file (something like TeX's \input) with the linuxdoc stuff? I swear there has to be a way, but I couldn't stumble on it, even after reading about sgmls's -i flag and a description in the man page. I suppose the problem is moot now, since I rolled my own, but I'm still curious to know for next time. Here's a question: does the "real" include mechanism work with the quasi-automated current and fully automated future howto submission process? I think it ought to, even though that will probably mean managing multi-file howto sources. For the interested, the first edition of the Printing HOWTO with an embedded summary of the online printer database went out the door minutes ago (mind you, it's a bit sparse; the idea is to get people to add stuff). If anyone who wants to include a supported printers list in a document (Hardware HOWTO?), the included sgml bit exists as http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/pht/current/printers.sgml; that copy will always match the one in the latest HOWTO. -- Grant Taylor - gtaylor@picante.com - http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/ Cellphone information: http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/cell/ Libretto information: http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/portable/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id HAA12897 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 07:04:35 +1100 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id HAA12486 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 07:04:31 +1100 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id DAA06807 for ldp-l-list; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 03:47:09 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from lafn.org (lafn.ORG [206.117.18.1]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id DAA06791 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 03:46:50 +0800 Received: by lafn.org id AA01077 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ldp-l@linux.org.au); Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:46:42 -0800 Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:46:42 -0800 Message-Id: <199902201946.AA01077@lafn.org> From: bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer) To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: HOWTOs hard to find at LDP sites Reply-To: bf347@lafn.org Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk I wrote a few paragraphs on this topic but it apparently went out as a null message (with no message body). Here's another try at it. The LDP sites (and mirrors) don't make it easy for one to find the HOWTOs. Here's the way I would change this. On the homepage (near the start of it) have a link named "HOWTOs". Clicking on this link takes one to a page with more links to the various formats available, both for howtos and mini-howtos. This is still the same number of links to follow to get to a howto, but at least it would be obvious how to find the howtos starting from the first screen of the LDP homepage. With the current layout of the LDP sites, I state in my HOWTOs: When you get to a a nearby mirror site, click on "Linux Documentation Project" (LDP) and then search for the 2nd occurrence of "HOWTO". Various formats are available. This is overly complicated. The changes I suggest are not the only way to make it simple, but they can be easily implemented by mostly just "cut-and-paste" editing. Something like this could be done for the "Guides". What a howto is (and what a guide is) could be explained by a sentence or two on the main pages (if there's room). David Lawyer From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id IAA13228 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 08:21:29 +1100 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id IAA12520 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 08:21:25 +1100 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id FAA07179 for ldp-l-list; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 05:13:50 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from zen.stanford.edu (zen.Stanford.EDU [171.65.16.116]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id FAA07175 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 05:13:46 +0800 Received: (from dhinds@localhost) by zen.stanford.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/8.6.6) id NAA12249; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:13:42 -0800 Message-ID: <19990220131342.45315@zen.stanford.edu> Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:13:42 -0800 From: David Hinds To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: HOWTOs hard to find at LDP sites References: <199902201946.AA01077@lafn.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.76e In-Reply-To: <199902201946.AA01077@lafn.org>; from David Lawyer on Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 11:46:42AM -0800 Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 11:46:42AM -0800, David Lawyer wrote: > > I wrote a few paragraphs on this topic but it apparently went out as a > null message (with no message body). Here's another try at it. > > The LDP sites (and mirrors) don't make it easy for one to find the HOWTOs. > Here's the way I would change this. On the homepage (near the start of > it) have a link named "HOWTOs". Clicking on this link takes one to a page > with more links to the various formats available, both for howtos and > mini-howtos. This is still the same number of links to follow to get to a > howto, but at least it would be obvious how to find the howtos starting > from the first screen of the LDP homepage. I'd suggest that the the "Linux Documentation Project Page" is closer to what the "Linux Documentation Project Homepage" should be. I think it is good design to minimize the number of links to follow for common tasks. If we think the Guides and HOWTO's are central to what the LDP is, they should be right there on the homepage. The list of upcoming events, and the "new links", are not central to LDP's mission and really don't belong on the project's homepage. -- Dave Hinds From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id IAA13281 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 08:32:44 +1100 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id IAA12532 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 08:32:40 +1100 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id FAA07323 for ldp-l-list; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 05:25:56 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from burdell.cc.gatech.edu (root@burdell.cc.gatech.edu [130.207.3.207]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id FAA07319 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 05:25:52 +0800 Received: from forge.cc.gatech.edu (gregh@forge.cc.gatech.edu [130.207.9.19]) by burdell.cc.gatech.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA14080 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 16:25:44 -0500 (EST) Received: (from gregh@localhost) by forge.cc.gatech.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA04966 for ldp-l@linux.org.au; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 16:25:44 -0500 (EST) From: gregh@cc.gatech.edu (Greg Hankins) Message-Id: <199902202125.QAA04966@forge.cc.gatech.edu> Subject: Re: HOWTOs hard to find at LDP sites To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 16:25:43 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <19990220131342.45315@zen.stanford.edu> from "David Hinds" at Feb 20, 99 01:13:42 pm X-PGP-fingerprint: 41 33 31 72 76 3F 42 DA AF E6 04 6D 36 79 6F EA X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk David Hinds writes: >I'd suggest that the the "Linux Documentation Project Page" is closer >to what the "Linux Documentation Project Homepage" should be. I think >it is good design to minimize the number of links to follow for common >tasks. If we think the Guides and HOWTO's are central to what the LDP >is, they should be right there on the homepage. I'll make some changes to the main page to address these problems. >The list of upcoming events, and the "new links", are not central to >LDP's mission and really don't belong on the project's homepage. I disagree. These are important parts of the LDP web pages, which are part of the LDP. Make some suggestions about where these should go if you think they should move. Greg -- Greg Hankins | Linux Documentation Project MS CS - Georgia Tech, College of Computing | Homepage and Linux Information http://www.cc.gatech.edu/staff/h/Greg.Hankins/ | http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA27891 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 04:52:49 +1100 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA07161 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 04:52:46 +1100 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id BAA07761 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 01:42:32 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from mailsvr.basit.com (mailsvr.basit.com [128.209.2.13]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA07757 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 01:42:25 +0800 Received: from lethe.nynexst.com (lethe [128.209.35.21]) by mailsvr.basit.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA17300; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 12:41:43 -0500 (EST) Received: by lethe.nynexst.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA14725; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 12:40:38 -0500 To: LDP Subject: Utility for checking URLs in HOWTOs From: Tom Fawcett Date: 24 Feb 1999 12:40:36 -0500 Message-ID: <8jogmjitt7.fsf@basit.com> Lines: 8 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.45/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk My HOWTO has lots of URLs which occasionally die. Is there a utility for going through a HOWTO (or any SGML document) and checking the URLs to make sure they still exist? I could write a perl script but I'd rather not duplicate effort if someone's already written such a utility. Thanks, -Tom From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id FAA27975 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 05:08:36 +1100 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id FAA07196 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 05:08:32 +1100 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id BAA07858 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 01:56:20 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from wallybox.cei.net (tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net [204.180.109.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA07851 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 01:56:12 +0800 Received: from localhost (tjbynum@localhost) by wallybox.cei.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id LAA01912 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:55:29 -0600 Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:55:28 -0600 (CST) From: Tim To: LDP Subject: Re: Utility for checking URLs in HOWTOs In-Reply-To: <8jogmjitt7.fsf@basit.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Tom, You can check out the following: http://starship.skyport.net/crew/marduk/linbot/ I've used it in the past....... Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@sunsite.unc.edu, linux-howto@sunsite.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA04141 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 00:42:56 +1100 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA08870 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 00:42:53 +1100 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id VAA30171 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:02:04 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from eros.cs.hut.fi (eros.cs.hut.fi [130.233.193.40]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id VAA30167 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:01:58 +0800 Received: from eros.cs.hut.fi (really [127.0.0.1]) by eros.cs.hut.fi via in.smtpd with esmtp id (Debian Smail3.2.0.102) for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 15:01:55 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 (debian) From: Lars Wirzenius X-No-Archive: yes To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Submission bot prototype; linuxdoc.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="==_Exmh_1958028453P"; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 15:01:51 +0200 Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk --==_Exmh_1958028453P Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii [ Please don't Cc: public replies to me. ] Despite my silence, things have been happening. I have finished the first proof-of-concept prototype of an automatic howto submission handling system. In short: * Howto author sends e-mail to liw-ldp-submit@hibase.cs.hut.fi. * Mail must be PGP/MIME signed with a key in the keyring (currently only my key), to avoid forgeries and abuse. The contents of the mail must be the Linux-doc SGML source. * Mailbot runs every 30 minutes and processes mails that have been received so far. * Mailbot extracts SGML source from mail, and runs it through formatters to produce html, info, txt, latex, dvi, and ps. These are put onto the web. * Mailbot sends mail to author (address extracted from e-mail just processed) with information about success or failure for each format and any error messages. * If there were any problems, the author is supposed to fix them (assuming they are fixable in the SGML source), and mail again. * If this were a real system, Tim or someone would move things manually from the "uploads" directory to the real LDP site. (Or it could be automated so that the author can do it.) The results are visible at . If you want to test this, please send me your PGP key (RSA keys only for now, I need to find out if newer key formats require changes to how PGP/MIME is handled). The Python program that implements this is also at the URL above. This is proof-of-concept, to show everyone what I mean when I claim that things can (mostly) be automated. I may have misconceptions about how things work now, or how they should work. Feedback welcome. Also, because it is proof-of-concept, it is necessarily too simple for real use. For example, not everyone will be able to use PGP, I think, and they need to be supported. And there will be documents that consist of several files, and that needs to be supported as well. There needs to be more logging, and so on. But take a look at it anyway. I haven't decided yet whether CVS or an e-mail bot would be better. Opinions welcome. - - - - We have a domain! Jim Pick arranged the LDP to have its own domain, linuxdoc.org. We have discussed it some time ago, and ldp.org would have been nice, but it's better to have something even if it isn't the perfect choice. I originally asked Jim if he wanted to give us ldp.linuxhq.com, since I didn't want to go through the trouble and cost for a toplevel domain, but Jim wanted to do things this way, and offered to pay for it as well. I have also asked Debian or the Software for Public Interest organization behind Debian to host list.linuxdoc.org, and they are positive, but still discussing things. www.linuxdoc.org currently redirects to metalab; I think this is good enough for now. We may want to arrange for a fancier mirror system later, so that www.linuxdoc.org would pick a random mirror by DNS magic, and www.fi.linuxdoc.org would pick a random Finnish mirror, and so on. That's not necessary, however; the current system works fine, and we need to work on other things first. I've been told some of the sites listed on the LDP mirror page do not respond. Is someone actively checking them, say weekly? I'm sure this could be automated, if it isn't already. --==_Exmh_1958028453P Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.6.3ia iQCVAwUBNtVJvIQRll5MupLRAQH4LAQAjC4C0/JFLcQpFgW0O7lK+Vc4G0/Xaw8j IsgSkur9lu5pRvyLUL0LMTTPxsun5SJupn4xhEq+sqeykwIBX7FPXoTboZ/OKopB nyZ5w/l121+m0OcDoYRSCuXzM2dYF63tpd9S3fpHrnJ/+Z2JXje1HEP1rgzcH2c4 mPxqX1ZsVTU= =ukCx -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --==_Exmh_1958028453P-- From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id PAA08162 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:23:45 +1100 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id PAA09877 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:23:41 +1100 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id MAA11334 for ldp-l-list; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 12:06:29 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from mta2.iol.it (mta.iol.it [195.210.91.150]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id MAA11330 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 12:06:24 +0800 Received: from etta ([195.210.74.161]) by mta2.iol.it (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA2409 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 05:06:11 +0100 Received: by etta id m10GEXF-00014BC (Debian Smail-3.2.0.92 1997-Feb-9 #2); Fri, 26 Feb 1999 05:05:57 +0100 (CET) From: Marco Gaiarin Subject: Re: Submission bot prototype; linuxdoc.org Date: 25 Feb 1999 17:23:34 GMT Organization: Il gaio usa sempre TIN per le liste, fallo anche tu!!! Message-ID: <7b40um$9jr$2@etta.f1016.n333.z2.fidonet.org> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: tin/pre-1.4-980618 (UNIX) (Linux/2.0.36 (i486)) To: ldp-l@linux.org.au X-Gateway-System: SmartGate 0.8 Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Mandi! Lars Wirzenius In chel di' si favelave... LW> Feedback welcome. ``compile options'' are passed how?! I've to compile my howto (Italian-HOWTO) with ``-l it -c latin -p a4'' at least.. -- L'Italia ripudia la guerra come mezzo di risoluzione delle controversie internazionali. (art. 11 Costituzione) From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id QAA08399 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 16:16:45 +1100 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id QAA09906 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 16:16:41 +1100 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id NAA12112 for ldp-l-list; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 13:06:29 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from burdell.cc.gatech.edu (root@burdell.cc.gatech.edu [130.207.3.207]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id NAA12108 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 13:06:25 +0800 Received: from forge.cc.gatech.edu (gregh@forge.cc.gatech.edu [130.207.9.19]) by burdell.cc.gatech.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA07877 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 00:06:20 -0500 (EST) Received: (from gregh@localhost) by forge.cc.gatech.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA04112 for ldp-l@linux.org.au; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 00:06:19 -0500 (EST) From: gregh@cc.gatech.edu (Greg Hankins) Message-Id: <199902260506.AAA04112@forge.cc.gatech.edu> Subject: Re: Submission bot prototype; linuxdoc.org To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 00:06:19 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: from "Lars Wirzenius" at Feb 25, 99 03:01:51 pm X-PGP-fingerprint: 41 33 31 72 76 3F 42 DA AF E6 04 6D 36 79 6F EA X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Lars Wirzenius writes: >I've been told some of the sites listed on the LDP mirror page do not >respond. Is someone actively checking them, say weekly? I'm sure this >could be automated, if it isn't already. Yep, I have a script and have been working away on these periodically. Greg -- Greg Hankins | Linux Documentation Project MS CS - Georgia Tech, College of Computing | Homepage and Linux Information http://www.cc.gatech.edu/staff/h/Greg.Hankins/ | http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id GAA16156 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 06:10:48 +1100 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id GAA20335 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 06:10:44 +1100 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id CAA21614 for ldp-l-list; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 02:57:13 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from pace.picante.com (IDENT:root@pace.picante.com [199.103.241.49]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA21212 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 02:57:02 +0800 Received: from pace.picante.com (gtaylor@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pace.picante.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA21073 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 13:56:55 -0500 Message-Id: <199903011856.NAA21073@pace.picante.com> To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: sgmltools-2 Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 13:56:53 -0500 From: Grant Taylor Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 5013 Lines: 104 [ Strictly speaking, this message also belongs on other lists, but the most important sgmltools-related people seem to be here, too. ] OK, as part of another project I've been playing with sgmltools 2, and I thought I'd share an observation or two. Summary: sgmltools 2 is rapidly approaching a usable state; we can convert anytime we feel like it, and we should consider revamping the howto-howto to suggest it for new works. The same is probably true for Guides. - It produces better HTML output. This is good; pictures work (see Gnome dox for example). I think tables actually worked in linuxdoc, but they're better now (except in ascii). You cannot easily control the "split" level, though. - It produces worse (or merely different?) ascii output. It's a simplfied html backed that then pipes into lynx -dump. I think it's servicable, though. However, there is no TOC, and I assume tables don't work. - DocBook is much more expressive than linuxdoc; clearly a docbook based system is the way to go. - DocBook is barely documented. Jade, nsgmls, and the other tools that we're really running have man page sort of documentation buried in the sgmlstools source tree. There is a good online reference roughly analagous to good javadoc plus examples at www.ora.com somewhere. And there is an impending ORA book by Norman Walsh, DocBook guru. - The Bocbook DTD's stricter markup style and structure makes for rather more tags than before. A lot more, I'd say; frankly it's a PITA for thos of us used to LaTeX or Linuxdoc. I have yet to try the psgml mode for Emacs, which allegedly cuts down on the tagginess of the thing. - The HTML and I think ascii backends do not produce indexes. I don't know if the dvi backend produces indexes; I can't for the life of me get TeX to go past 1700 pages before running out of one memory type or another (yes, I know, I'm fiddling with sizes in texmf.cnf). OTOH we have a total of about two HOWTOs with index tags. - The "less-used" document flavours (book, report, !article) appear to work better than in linuxdoc, where they were there but mostly unsused and/or buggy. - We can express the LDP guides in DocBook as well as or better than in LaTeX. I did a poor html->linuxdoc->docbook conversion on one chapter; a latex->docbook converter is probably a better way to get there. (Parenthetical note; neither latex2html 0.95p1 nor 0.98p1 can convert the current I&GS sources for some reason. This had better be only me.) - The sgmltools converter is broken in 2.0.2, but there was a patch on the mailing list that should make it go (although I implemented my own workaround by running jade directly with the ld2db.dsl file and a funny catalog). - The converter gets you 95% there. One of the two URL link flavours translates into a link around "&65532;", which is bogus. Internal cross-references appear to mostly work, although there are sometimes end-tags for tags when there shouldn't be. - lists get a little screwy, with extra or mismatched tags in the translation. Parse errors aside, they appear to format properly in the usual backeds. - The environment translates to , which is good. Some combinations of that and or result in incorrect screen/programlisting/quote blocks. Alternatively, some HOWTOs may be using the tscreen environment wrong now. Either way it requires fiddling. - The m/n?[ci]dx/ index tags are left unchanged; they need to be translated into expressions. The DocBook indexing is more powerful than the (LaTeX based?) hack in linuxdoc. I have Perl to fix these. - Something funny may be happening with , although this may be an artifact of my project, which involves "demoting" various HOWTOs (ie, sect1->sect2, etc) and embedding them into another sgml file. - The ~ character becomes &732; - does it need to? - The < character disappears sometimes. But not others. - When run from sgmltools, jade refuses to continue after 200 errors. Since most of these are in fact warnings, this is annoying on a large project. The sgmltools front end needs an option to add -E to jade runs; I just hard coded it in SGMLTools.pm myself. - The backend/styleshet system is a mystery to me. The HTML results are good, but what if I wanted to produce a book in a different style? With Latex, you mangled an existing .sty. With linuxdoc, there was a .sty and companion parser->latex substitution mapfile. With docbook/dsssl/jadetex? The whole point of the dsssl seems to be to allow this, but how? (Pointers to TFM would be fine here). -- Grant Taylor - gtaylor@picante.com - http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/ Cellphone information: http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/cell/ Libretto information: http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/portable/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id GAA16472 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 06:45:51 +1100 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id GAA20512 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 06:45:48 +1100 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id DAA17657 for ldp-l-list; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 03:35:22 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from pace.picante.com (IDENT:root@pace.picante.com [199.103.241.49]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id DAA17506 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 03:35:13 +0800 Received: from pace.picante.com (gtaylor@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pace.picante.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA22452 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 14:35:06 -0500 Message-Id: <199903011935.OAA22452@pace.picante.com> To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: LDP book; date and money heads up Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 14:35:04 -0500 From: Grant Taylor Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1628 Lines: 30 I will be assembling an LDP book for Sybex (a somewhat clueless publisher from a technical standpoint; they've never done SGML and usually get Word source!). They have, however, been more or less cooperative liscense/copyright-wise, as well they should be. Anyway, they'll be paying everyone $10 per page of whatever LDP-ware I put in the thing. It's only a 1000 page book, so many HOWTOs will be left out, but for those that aren't, the venerable nuisance of getting money to loads of people strikes again. The $10 deal also includes new material; aside from the book's intro and transitions, any new HOWTOs that I or anyone else feels like writing will be paid for and become GPL'ed LDP works. I insisted upon this primarily because I was not aware of any Gnome documentation and thought I might be forced to write some; were that to have happened it would have been a great pity for my work to be entombed on dead trees. While there are Gnome dox now, there are certainly other holes to be filled. So if you're going to produce a new HOWTO in the next month or so, let me know that I might be able to put it in this book and get you a little money for your trouble... In another week or so I will post here a list of the HOWTOs, minis, and Guides that will probably be in the book along with a last-minute date for updates to be included for press time. I'm thinking late March, or mid-April for docbook files. -- Grant Taylor - gtaylor@picante.com - http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/ Cellphone information: http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/cell/ Libretto information: http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/portable/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id OAA18862 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 14:51:38 +1100 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id OAA20685 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 14:51:34 +1100 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id LAA20999 for ldp-l-list; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 11:42:36 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from burdell.cc.gatech.edu (root@burdell.cc.gatech.edu [130.207.3.207]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id LAA20995 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 11:42:31 +0800 Received: from forge.cc.gatech.edu (gregh@forge.cc.gatech.edu [130.207.9.19]) by burdell.cc.gatech.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA27908 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 22:42:25 -0500 (EST) Received: (from gregh@localhost) by forge.cc.gatech.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA29259 for ldp-l@linux.org.au; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 22:42:25 -0500 (EST) From: gregh@cc.gatech.edu (Greg Hankins) Message-Id: <199903020342.WAA29259@forge.cc.gatech.edu> Subject: Re: HOWTOs hard to find at LDP sites To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 22:42:24 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <19990220135112.55361@zen.stanford.edu> from "David Hinds" at Feb 20, 99 01:51:12 pm X-PGP-fingerprint: 41 33 31 72 76 3F 42 DA AF E6 04 6D 36 79 6F EA X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1288 Lines: 28 David Hinds writes: >Ok... this is partly a misunderstanding on my part. I've always >considered the LDP to be the Guides, HOWTO's, etc, period. And I've >never even looked at other parts of the LDP pages, because I would not >have thought of going to the LDP pages to look for more general Linux >info: I go to the LDP pages for documents, period. Aha, but the LDP pages are much more than just an index to the LDP. Many people come to the LDP pages for documentation, but also because the LDP pages contain a lot of useful links (Terry, this should answer you question too). Thus, I consider the LDP web pages to be part of the LDP, they don't document a particular aspect about Linux, but they serve Linux information seekers in many ways. >I think it would be bad for the Homepage to become overly long and >detailed: it would get overwhelming. I still think it would be good >for core LDP documents to have a prominent place. I moved things around. The LDP works are now back on the front page. Comments are appreciated. Regards, Greg -- Greg Hankins | Linux Documentation Project MS CS - Georgia Tech, College of Computing | Homepage and Linux Information http://www.cc.gatech.edu/staff/h/Greg.Hankins/ | http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA22807 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 04:45:16 +1100 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA22131 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 04:45:12 +1100 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id BAA29772 for ldp-l-list; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 01:29:41 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from wallybox.cei.net (tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net [204.180.109.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA29768 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 01:29:36 +0800 Received: from localhost (tjbynum@localhost) by wallybox.cei.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id LAA26992 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 11:31:54 -0600 Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 11:31:54 -0600 (CST) From: Tim To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: DocBook working group Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 684 Lines: 23 Hello, Kendall Clark had sent an email to the list regarding the DocBook working group, but it bounced due to the instructions on how to _subscribe_. My apologies, but you'll find the instructions on how to _subscribe_ at the following address: http://wallybox.cei.net/~tjbynum/ldp-l/ Please let me know if you encounter any problems....... Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@sunsite.unc.edu, linux-howto@sunsite.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA29645 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 04:52:50 +1100 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA24365 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 04:52:46 +1100 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id BAA16837 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 01:28:41 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from eros.cs.hut.fi (eros.cs.hut.fi [130.233.193.40]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA16833 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 01:28:32 +0800 Received: from eros.cs.hut.fi (really [127.0.0.1]) by eros.cs.hut.fi via in.smtpd with esmtp id (Debian Smail3.2.0.102) for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 19:28:26 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 (debian) From: Lars Wirzenius X-No-Archive: yes To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Automatic submission handling prototype - non-PGP use Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="==_Exmh_929109165P"; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 19:28:15 +0200 Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk --==_Exmh_929109165P Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii [ Please don't Cc: public replies to me. ] I added a quick hack to the automatic submission handling prototype to support non-PGP passwords. This is not as safe, but safe enough for the prototype. It works like this: you mail me the password you want to use, I add it to the password file, and then you can try the system out by sending the SGML source to a HOWTO to liw-ldp-submit@hibase.cs.hut.fi, and putting the password in the subject. The passwords are matched against the address in the From header. The results will be reported by e-mail and shown on http://hibase.cs.hut.fi/~liw/ldp/uploads. I'd like several people to test this, especially Tim and Greg, who have experience with upload handling as it is done now. Eventually, I think a CVS based system would be better, with an e-mail front-end (automatic or manual) for those who can't or don't want to use CVS. However, we need to find someone to host the CVS server first. --==_Exmh_929109165P Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.6.3ia iQCVAwUBNt1xLYQRll5MupLRAQFFhgQAyJyMIM+RnwvUw/5kX1f267yKIQ86fwa+ hScpyttCM+FVNMJYH8Nzv5Qwc0ATou+wRANInWgccqrVa33hje75wOaqRQ457y9q SitrTMG9JIqbD58cVtorentx6byF09pZQTwkyMc9NAfH4Hlo5KktxRwgACjTPTgQ YTKnuGVhmEI= =VDho -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --==_Exmh_929109165P-- From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id KAA29891 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:21:26 +1100 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id KAA16100 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:21:21 +1100 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id GAA11431 for ldp-l-list; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 06:35:24 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from pace.picante.com (IDENT:root@pace.picante.com [199.103.241.49]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id GAA11427 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 06:35:08 +0800 Received: from pace.picante.com (gtaylor@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pace.picante.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA14079 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 17:34:53 -0500 Message-Id: <199903112234.RAA14079@pace.picante.com> To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: timeframe for that ldp book I mentioned... Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 17:34:51 -0500 From: Grant Taylor Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk OK, I've got more information about the Sybex LDP book I mentioned before. It will be called "Linux Complete", and go for $19.95; it is 1000 pages of big print and will therefore have less content than other pile-o-LDP books. But they are giving us $10 a page, and I'm making a point to put in plenty of meta-documentation, so I don't think anyone will be greatly disserved by it. If you care to update your document in time for this book (please don't do so because of this book, but if you've got changes queued up and need an excuse, this is as good a one as any), please send me a copy of your sgml file; the LDP homepage has had a bit of latency recently... If you know for certain that you will not be updating your document before a the deadline, that information would also be useful. Since I'm delivering the book in parts, there are different deadlines for different documents. I will include the most recent version I can obtain as of the dates listed below, be that from the LDP page, a "homepage" of your own listed in available versions of the HOWTO, or what you send me. Catastrophically incorrect or outdated HOWTOs can be corrected after the deadlines, but it'll be a pain. I can provide a hand-massaged DocBook conversion for anyone interested. My hand-massaging involves converting from "article" to "chapter", though, so it's not clear how useful this is in practice. It's probably good for something, but not until the LDP switches... I have not finished checking the copyrights yet - as I do each chapter I verify the right to reprint. If your document appears below and includes a restrictive copyright, you can tell me or I will notice when I get there. The following LDP docs will (probably) be in the book: Document Deadline LIGS Intro Chapter past Unix and Internet Fundamentals HOWTO past Installation HOWTO past XFree86 HOWTO March 12 Sound HOWTO March 12 Printing HOWTO March 12 Plug-and-Play HOWTO March 12 Networking Overview HOWTO March 19 NET-3 HOWTO March 19 PPP HOWTO March 19 Cable Modem mini March 19 IP Masquerade mini March 19 DHCP mini March 19 DNS HOWTO March 19 Security HOWTO April 2 Firewalling/Proxy Server HOWTO April 2 Ipchains HOWTO April 2 Gnome User Guide April 2 KDE User Guide April 2 Meta-FAQ April 10 Reading List HOWTO April 10 HOWTO Index April 10 -- Grant Taylor - gtaylor@picante.com - http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/ Linux Printing HOWTO: http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/pht/ Cellphone information: http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/cell/ Libretto information: http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/portable/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id LAA09802 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:12:38 +1100 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id LAA01688 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:12:34 +1100 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id HAA17868 for ldp-l-list; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 07:53:18 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from lafn.org (lafn.ORG [206.117.18.1]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id HAA17830 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 07:53:00 +0800 Received: by lafn.org id AA21636 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ldp-l@linux.org.au); Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:52:46 -0800 Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:52:46 -0800 Message-Id: <199903142352.AA21636@lafn.org> From: bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer) To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: sgml linuxdoc problems Reply-To: bf347@lafn.org Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk BUGS in sgml for linuxdoc: At the test site for submitting HOWTOs it uses sgml2info to convert HOWTOs to info format. I've had a number of problems with this and some of the fixes are shown below along with some of the other bugs in sgml using linuxdoc. THE BLANK LINE PROBLEM: Using sgml2txt results in a table of contents with many leading blank lines. Also, the resulting document has 2 blank lines (instead of one) above each section and subsection heading. One may fix this by running cat -s on the file (but this should be done before distributing it from the LDP sites) . cat -s deletes excessive blank lines (two or more next to each other). SECTION HEADING PROBLEMS: There are a number of things that you can't put in section headers: 1. ... or Introduction. sgml2info objects to this. CODE and VERB ENVIRONMENT PROBLEMS: Within or environments sgml2info objects to the use of { or }. If you use &lcub (for { ) it's just like the case of &colon in 3. above. A [lcub ] winds up in your .info file and appears on the display when you run info. Ditto for the use of &rcub. Dave Lawyer From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id NAA16274 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 13:37:58 +1100 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id NAA12180 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 13:37:54 +1100 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id XAA24380 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 23:54:10 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from raje.ks-t.no (raje.ks-t.no [193.71.171.194]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id XAA24376 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 23:54:00 +0800 Received: from stanga.ks-t.no (unverified) by raje.ks-t.no (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id for ; to, 18 mar 1999 16:45:47 +0100 Received: from mail.nyx.net (pc130.ks-t.no [193.71.169.130]) by stanga.ks-t.no with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id GZZTL3WA; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 16:49:07 +0100 Message-Id: <36F12168.EE4B0B58@mail.nyx.net> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 16:53:12 +0100 From: Stein Gjoen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: LDP Subject: LDP awareness suggestions Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Not much seem to be happening about the LDP and the promotioning of it. A previous mailer suggested putting something like an LDP button on the desktop which I feel is a good idea. I'd like to first find out just how many just know what the LDP and the HOWTOs are about, using the polling feature on Slashdot. http://slashdot.org/ For this I propose the following poll text and choices: Slashdot Poll Do you know about the LDP and the HOWTOs? o Yes to both o Yes to both, and I have also read most HOWTOs o I know about LDP buuthave not read any HOWTOs o I read HOWTOs but what is LDP? o No to both o I don't care For some reason it is a tradition to leave a weird last option in the list of polling options... Polls regularly get over 10000 votes so it should be possible to get some idea of LDP presence in the Linux community as well as tons of feedback, usually several hundreds. Any comments to this? Then I went to Redhat and checked out what they had. Front page http://www.redhat.com/ had nothing about LDP or HOWTOs. Knowledgebase http://www.redhat.com/knowledgebase/ (huge) had no mentions of LDP but a number of HOWTOs are mentioned in relevant sections. Searching the site http://www2.portal.redhat.com/cgi-bin/knowledge_base?cmd=searchForm&file=1 for "documentation project" resulted in the string "No items matched all of these words: documentation, project. " Using the front page search engine (Powered by Google ) http://redhat.google.com/redhat?q=LDP&search=redhat resulted in hits on a number of machines in the internal Redhat network, most of which were mirror related. Next: Slackware http://www.slackware.com/ Neither the "FAQ" nor the "Other Sites" links pointed to anything related to LDP or the HOWTOs and I found no means of searching either. SuSE has a link to documentation on the front page, pointing to their LDP mirror. I haven't checked the other commercial vendors. Wouldn't it be an idea to approach these and get some LDP related links put in? Update: Headlines like "Red Hat Releases Starbuck" are popping up everywhere, seems we once again were too late to get the latest HOWTO updates in the latest distributions. Regards, Stein Gjoen From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id NAA16109 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 13:14:50 +1100 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id NAA12108 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 13:14:46 +1100 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id JAA31035 for ldp-l-list; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 09:58:04 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from nfs.aceonline.com.au (root@nfs.aceonline.com.au [203.62.135.41]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA31031 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 09:58:01 +0800 Received: from lafn.org ([206.117.18.1]) by nfs.aceonline.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8.DIE.SPAMMER.DIE) with SMTP id JAA22415 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 09:57:50 +0800 Received: by lafn.org id AA17003 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ldp-l@linux.org.au); Thu, 18 Mar 1999 14:06:57 -0800 Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 14:06:57 -0800 Message-Id: <199903182206.AA17003@lafn.org> From: bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer) To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: sgml2info "errors", etc. Reply-To: bf347@lafn.org Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk BUGS?? in sgml for linuxdoc; by David Lawyer, Mar. 18, 1999 At the test site for submitting HOWTOs (liw-ldp-submit@hibase.cs.hut.fi) sgml2info is used to convert HOWTOs to info format. I've had a number of problems with this and some of the fixes are shown below along with some of the other "bugs" in sgml using linuxdoc. Also, a long url will result in a warning message: "Can't break line". I hope that a HOWTO that does this is still acceptable. THE BLANK LINE PROBLEM: Using sgml2txt results in a table of contents with many leading blank lines. Also the resulting document has 2 blank lines (instead of one) above each section and subsection heading. One may fix this by running cat -s on the file (but this should be done before putting it at the LDP sites) . cat -s deletes excessive blank lines (two or more next to each other). SECTION HEADING PROBLEMS: There are a number of things that you can't put in section headers: 1. ... or Introduction. sgml2info objects to this. 6. ... (a string of dots). smgl2info objects. But OK using my Debian sgml-tools 1.09-1. CODE and VERB ENVIRONMENT PROBLEMS: Within or environments, sgml2info objects to the use of { or }. If you use &lcub (for { ) it's just like the case of &colon in 3. above. A [lcub ] winds up in your .info file and appears on the display when you run info. TITLE TAG: The title tag end must exist. But it's not required using my Debian sgml-tools 1.09-1. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id KAA10754 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 10:40:18 +1100 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id KAA28302 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 10:40:14 +1100 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id HAA22080 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 07:21:14 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from eros.cs.hut.fi (eros.cs.hut.fi [130.233.193.40]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id HAA22071 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 07:21:03 +0800 Received: by eros.cs.hut.fi via sendmail from stdin id (Debian Smail3.2.0.102) for ldp-l@linux.org.au; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 01:21:01 +0200 (EET) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1999 23:21:01 GMT Message-ID: From: Lars Wirzenius To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Cc: Subject: IDG books wishes to publish LDP MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-md5"; boundary="130.233.193.40.9849.11469.922317660.340.16872"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk This is a MIME message. --130.233.193.40.9849.11469.922317660.340.16872 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Laura Lewin of IDG Books mailed me and told me she is trying to get her employer to publish LDP books (probably starting with mine). If any other LDP guide authors want to be published as well, they should mail her. She wants to have/keep an open content or open source license, so this would not require one to sell one's soul. --130.233.193.40.9849.11469.922317660.340.16872 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.6.3ia iQCVAwUBNvlzW4QRll5MupLRAQGkYAP/fbcv3jeoJ7SYq8snxRSN7J01By6hTlHT sPm8sMEfUDayQPNvu2HbmDkaKu7r9U5lemEYSTBf86veJRBaCe+9WMy6GRvOg0b5 o46O0RuhjikQ/TAhEgAcqrBtvLHfo6v3lyfBgW917yBy3BqhijVR2TtMM54CmCk4 nFIc6FA7igc= =l1iQ -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --130.233.193.40.9849.11469.922317660.340.16872-- This was a MIME message. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id OAA29671 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 14:38:47 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id OAA12007 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 14:38:41 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id MAA18229 for ldp-l-list; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 12:11:26 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from burdell.cc.gatech.edu (root@burdell.cc.gatech.edu [130.207.3.207]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id MAA18218 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 12:11:03 +0800 Received: from forge.cc.gatech.edu (gregh@forge.cc.gatech.edu [130.207.9.19]) by burdell.cc.gatech.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA00852 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 23:10:38 -0500 (EST) Received: (from gregh@localhost) by forge.cc.gatech.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA08039 for ldp-l@linux.org.au; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 23:10:32 -0500 (EST) From: gregh@cc.gatech.edu (Greg Hankins) Message-Id: <199903310410.XAA08039@forge.cc.gatech.edu> Subject: Re: LDP leadership; now what? To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 23:10:31 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <36ED233E.6513DFA5@mail.nyx.net> from "Stein Gjoen" at Mar 15, 99 04:11:58 pm X-PGP-fingerprint: 41 33 31 72 76 3F 42 DA AF E6 04 6D 36 79 6F EA X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Stein Gjoen writes: >Finally he noted that the LDP mirrors were out of sync with >Metalab, seems the mirroring process is not quite working. That is impossible. As of tonight, the stats were as follows: LDP mirror status [as of 1999.3.30. 22:30; canonical LDP dated 1999.3.30.] -- 213 alive, 16 w/problems, 5 lagging > 7 days. I just removed and notified a bunch of the broken ones. The LDP mirrors are probably the best they've ever been now since the mirror page was started. Greg -- Greg Hankins | Linux Documentation Project MS CS - Georgia Tech, College of Computing | Homepage and Linux Information http://www.cc.gatech.edu/staff/h/Greg.Hankins/ | http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id TAA04012 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 19:16:34 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id TAA12229 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 19:16:29 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id RAA26437 for ldp-l-list; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 17:00:22 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from eros.cs.hut.fi (eros.cs.hut.fi [130.233.193.40]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id RAA26433 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 17:00:16 +0800 Received: by eros.cs.hut.fi via sendmail from stdin id (Debian Smail3.2.0.102) for ldp-l@linux.org.au; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 12:00:01 +0300 (EEST) Date: Wed, 31 Apr 1999 09:00:00 GMT Message-ID: From: Lars Wirzenius To: ldp-l@linux.org.au, ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Cc: Subject: Leader, um, yes, er, um, right, er... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-md5"; boundary="130.233.193.40.9849.17404.922870800.265.13688"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk This is a MIME message. --130.233.193.40.9849.17404.922870800.265.13688 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Those of you eagerly awaiting your leader to actually do something will be disappointed to hear that I've just been forbidden by my = doctor to sit in front of the computer for the next 10 days (and maybe more). I'm having problems with my back, but nothing really bad, just annoyingly hindering me from doing anything useful. However, in the mean time, I hope that others can help with finding docbook docs/tutorials, at least, and do other things I should probably have done already, like discussing automation of howto submissions, or starting the conversion of guides to docbook, or going through the licenses of various LDP docs to see if they conform to the Open Source Definition. --130.233.193.40.9849.17404.922870800.265.13688 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.6.3ia iQCVAwUBNwHkD4QRll5MupLRAQGnuAP+JBLL6k5bXmqy9j9ayTbfkk66GmWy2WK3 ENs8nUwSce+exbNHvFkrgW+Ku5ZXU+eVnAu6S2CP0CUw5PRG6Mrl2gvkBI6A6tHP 2soO/JNFBNst/J5fQP0GAUwb5Nkzmxa7mxURS5tCQHDpV3afXzizTtRYHvnjZ/XG M6PBmz/ivhc= =+wbG -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --130.233.193.40.9849.17404.922870800.265.13688-- This was a MIME message. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id HAA07744 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 07:59:33 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id HAA13930 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 07:59:30 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id FAA07667 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 05:46:51 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from lafn.org (lafn.ORG [206.117.18.1]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id FAA07663 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 05:46:48 +0800 Received: by lafn.org id AA11682 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ldp-l@linux.org.au); Wed, 31 Mar 1999 13:46:31 -0800 Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 13:46:31 -0800 Message-Id: <199903312146.AA11682@lafn.org> From: bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer) To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: Open Source Reply-To: bf347@lafn.org Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Lars Wirzenius wrote: > >However, in the mean time, I hope that others can help with ...... It's meantime (one word) >or going through the >licenses of various LDP docs to see if they conform to the Open Source >Definition. Many of you probably saw my criticism some months ago of the "Open Source Definition". First, this definition is for "software". Nowhere in it is "document" mentioned. Thus unless we change "software" and "program" to "document", etc, it doesn't even apply to us. Secondly, all LDP works mush be freely redistributable. That means that anyone can make copies and give them away. This right doesn't seem to be included in the "Open Source Definition". The paragraph "Free Redistribution" is only for the case of where a bunch of components are going into an aggregate which will contain programs from several different sources. This is not the case at an LDP site where one can just get a copy of a single HOWTO. Thus if we are to use Open Source (which I'm opposed to anyway) we will have to add the provision that the License must allow anyone to give away the documentation. I think that instead of attempting to fix the Open Soruce Definition (which also has other shortcomings and ambiguities) we just need to come up with our own criteria by modifying the existing statement of what kind of license we will accept. Dave Lawyer From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id IAA07756 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 08:00:20 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id IAA13944 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 08:00:16 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id FAA07679 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 05:49:31 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from mail.kalsoft.com ([204.247.210.130]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id FAA07675 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 05:49:26 +0800 Received: by mail.kalsoft.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5) id <01BE7B7E.261B9470@mail.kalsoft.com>; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 13:55:34 -0800 Message-ID: From: Marilyn Altman To: "'ldp-l@linux.org.au'" Subject: Publishing a collection of HOWTOs Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 13:55:33 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Dear Sir/Madam: toExcel (www.toExcel.com), a leader in on-demand publishing, is creating two new book series, the Open Documents Library and Open Source Library. The first books in the Open Source Library are several collections of LDP HOWTOs and mini-HOWTOs compiled from the Web by computer author, Gordon McComb. We are taking the exact text of each individual author as it is found on your site and designing it as an attractive 7.5" x 9.25" trim book that will be available for sale on our site, at other online booksellers and through traditional booksellers. You note on your site that copyright for each document is retained by the author. Since each book we publish will actually have several authors and copyright holders (being composed of several titles), should we print each author name and title on the copyright page of the book or is inclusion of the complete text satisfactory? Thanks for your help! M Marilyn Altman Director of Operations Kaleidoscope Software Ph: 408-260-3063 Fx: 408-260-3067 maltman@kalsoft.com www.toExcel.com From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id IAA07805 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 08:10:55 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id IAA13962 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 08:10:51 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id FAA07819 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 05:58:44 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from devserv.devel.redhat.com (IDENT:root@devserv.devel.redhat.com [207.175.42.156]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id FAA07814 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 05:58:39 +0800 Received: from tristan.devel.redhat.com (root@tristan.devel.redhat.com [207.175.42.7]) by devserv.devel.redhat.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA11950 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 16:58:33 -0500 Received: from tristan.devel.redhat.com (IDENT:johnsonm@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tristan.devel.redhat.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA05062 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 16:58:32 -0500 Message-Id: <199903312158.QAA05062@tristan.devel.redhat.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 To: ldp-l@linux.org.au From: "Michael K. Johnson" Subject: Re: Open Source In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 31 Mar 1999 13:46:31 PST." <199903312146.AA11682@lafn.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 16:58:32 -0500 Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk David Lawyer writes: >the documentation. I think that instead of attempting to fix the Open >Soruce Definition (which also has other shortcomings and ambiguities) we >just need to come up with our own criteria by modifying the existing >statement of what kind of license we will accept. I think that we've already done that. The current manifesto is clear on the point -- at least I think so. If there's something incomprehensible in the current manifesto's explanation of what is required, please bring it up here. michaelkjohnson "Magazines all too frequently lead to books and should be regarded by the prudent as the heavy petting of literature." -- Fran Lebowitz Linux Application Development http://www.redhat.com/~johnsonm/lad/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0013 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id UAA07242 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 20:33:06 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id UAA16447 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 20:33:01 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id SAA11332 for ldp-l-list; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 18:11:50 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from raje.ks-t.no (raje.ks-t.no [193.71.171.194]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id SAA11327 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 18:11:25 +0800 Received: from stanga.ks-t.no (unverified) by raje.ks-t.no (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id for ; ti, 06 apr 1999 12:02:56 +0200 Received: from mail.nyx.net (pc130.ks-t.no [193.71.169.130]) by stanga.ks-t.no with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id GZZTLQ84; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 12:06:19 +0200 Message-Id: <3709DDA5.BA5A1003@mail.nyx.net> Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 12:10:45 +0200 From: Stein Gjoen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: LDP Subject: Software-RAID-HOWTO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Seems it is hard to get hold of anyone in the LDP ledership these days, is tere anyone who can help this guy? See message appended below. It was posted to the RAID list. Regards, Stein Gjoen === begin === Subject: RAID Docs. Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 16:52:02 +0200 From: jakob@ostenfeld.dk To: Linux RAID mailing list Hi all ! A little update on things: *) We now have a Spanish translation of the HOWTO !! Points go to Prof. Juan Piernas Cánovas, who did this fine job. Thanks ! The URL is : http://ditec.um.es/~piernas/manpages-es/otros/otros.html *) My dead disk hasn't returned yet, and the HOWTO update is on hold until that happens (which will hopefully be soon) *) I am unable to reach anyone at the Linux Documentation Project. I tried Greg Hankins who is listed as the maintainer, but who no longer is. And I tried the alias , also with no results. If any of you out there has good contact with anyone at the LDP, could you please connect me to those people somehow, please. We need to get the new Software-RAID.HOWTO into the LDP, to stop this confusion going on about new vs. old software RAID. Thanks, ................................................................ : jakob@ostenfeld.dtu.dk : And I see the elder races, : :.........................: putrid forms of man : : Jakob Østergaard : See him rise and claim the earth, : : OZ9ABN : his downfall is at hand. : :.........................:............{Konkhra}...............: === end === From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id GAA17439 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 06:43:34 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id GAA20947 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 06:43:31 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id EAA07770 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 04:19:28 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from lafn.org (lafn.ORG [206.117.18.1]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id EAA07766 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 04:19:23 +0800 Received: by lafn.org id AA25711 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ldp-l@linux.org.au); Wed, 7 Apr 1999 13:19:08 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 13:19:08 -0700 Message-Id: <199904072019.AA25711@lafn.org> From: bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer) To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: Software-RAID-HOWTO Cc: Reply-To: bf347@lafn.org Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Guylhem Aznar wrote: > >Please tell any new version/new howto should be sent to this adress, in >SGML format, bzip2'ed (I'm working on a script to check&upload the >howtos so the adress may change soon). > My mail service doesn't send binary files which I assume bzip2 produces. I can only send plain text. Compared to the resources required to mirror and download howtos, the extra bandwidth required due to not compressing the master copy is insignificant. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id HAA17748 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 07:49:26 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id HAA20990 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 07:49:22 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id FAA07941 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 05:30:03 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from lafn.org (lafn.ORG [206.117.18.1]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id FAA07937 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 05:29:58 +0800 Received: by lafn.org id AA08986 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ldp-l@linux.org.au); Wed, 7 Apr 1999 14:29:50 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 14:29:50 -0700 Message-Id: <199904072129.AA08986@lafn.org> From: bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer) To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Submitting HOWTOs Reply-To: bf347@lafn.org Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Guylhem Anzar wrote: >Please tell any new version/new howto should be sent to this adress, in >SGML format, bzip2'ed (I'm working on a script to check&upload the >howtos so the adress may change soon). I thought that Tim Bynum was still processing HOWTOs. I submitted one a few weeks ago to metalab (formerly sunsite) that Tim B sent to the mirrors but one I submitted a week or so ago hasn't yet been put at the LDP sites. IMO Tim Bynum should not be bypassed without his OK. He once said he had just about finished the automation of the uploading of HOWTO's to Metalab. There's no point in duplicating effort and it's important that more than one person be familiar with the scripts, etc. used for HOWTO submission. Perhaps Guylhem could get copies of these scripts (from both Tim and Lars), go over them, write a short overview of them, and even invite the rest of us to look at them (after deleting any passwords, etc. that might be hardcoded in the scripts). Dave Lawyer From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id HAA17755 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 07:49:48 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id HAA21001 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 07:49:44 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id FAA07995 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 05:36:58 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from wallybox.cei.net (tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net [204.180.109.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id FAA07991 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 05:36:53 +0800 Received: from localhost (tjbynum@localhost) by wallybox.cei.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id QAA26822 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 16:40:27 -0500 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 16:40:26 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim - HOWTO Coordinator To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: Software-RAID-HOWTO In-Reply-To: <199904072019.AA25711@lafn.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Got done with another batch of updates and will u/l them tonight. As for the HAM-HOWTO, I only received one of them with the subject that began with RESEND. Will have it uploaded/updated this evening with the rest. Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id NAA19515 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 13:30:44 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id NAA21317 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 13:30:39 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id LAA10825 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:20:36 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from wallybox.cei.net (tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net [204.180.109.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id LAA10816 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:20:30 +0800 Received: from localhost (tjbynum@localhost) by wallybox.cei.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id WAA00273 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 22:15:30 -0500 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 22:15:30 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim - HOWTO Coordinator To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: sunsite -> metalab In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Hello All, Please modify all docs and change references/links from sunsite to metalab. Should you have a HOWTO/mini that hasn't been updated in quite some time, go ahead and at least make these modifications. If you can't find the time, then send me an OK and I'll take care of it on my side. Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id NAA19522 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 13:30:51 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id NAA21328 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 13:30:47 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id LAA10699 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:14:34 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from wallybox.cei.net (tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net [204.180.109.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id LAA10694 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:14:27 +0800 Received: from localhost (tjbynum@localhost) by wallybox.cei.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id WAA00186 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 22:09:12 -0500 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 22:09:11 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim - HOWTO Coordinator To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: Software-RAID-HOWTO In-Reply-To: <19990408083149.A17960@albert.aapra.org.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Terry, > Thanks Tim, > Is there any chance linux-howto is throwing away mail without you knowing? Let's just say that I don't like using the word *never*. ;) I do have it set up to "forward" a copy of everything to me. Especially if the word HOWTO shows up anywhere in the subject. Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id DAA23429 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 03:38:33 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id DAA22892 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 03:38:30 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id BAA19897 for ldp-l-list; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 01:22:37 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from lafn.org (lafn.ORG [206.117.18.1]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id BAA19893 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 01:22:33 +0800 Received: by lafn.org id AA07889 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ldp-l@linux.org.au); Thu, 8 Apr 1999 10:22:19 -0700 Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 10:22:19 -0700 Message-Id: <199904081722.AA07889@lafn.org> From: bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer) To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: LDP awareness suggestions Reply-To: bf347@lafn.org Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Stein Gjoen wrote: > >Earlier I wrote: >[snip] >> I'd like to first find out just how many just know what the LDP and >> the HOWTOs are about, using the polling feature on Slashdot. >> http://slashdot.org/ >> For this I propose the following poll text and choices: >> >> Slashdot Poll >> Do you know about the LDP and the HOWTOs? >> o Yes to both >> o Yes to both, and I have also read most HOWTOs >> o I know about LDP buuthave not read any HOWTOs >> o I read HOWTOs but what is LDP? >> o No to both >> o I don't care I don't like the proposed question above and think it can be improved on. The "I don't care" response is out of place since anyone bothering to take a survey must "care" at least a little about the situation. There are so many HOWTOs that few people have read most HOWTOs so that question doesn't belong there. Asking for a numeric answer provides a lot more info. Why not ask something like: Considering that there are over 100 HOWTOs totaling thousands of pages, about what percent of the total pages do you think you've read? For me I've written about 4% of the pages and read only about 1% of the rest. Thus I would answer 5%. I think the typical answer (ignoring 0%) will be say 2%. The important thing is that people know about the HOWTOs so they can use them. What LDP is doesn't matter that much. So for HOWTOs you could ask: Before you started this survey, what did you know about the Linux HOWTOs? 1. Never heard of them. 2. I've heard the name but didn't really understand what it meant. 3. I knew they were documentation for Linux but never read any part of them. 4. I read at least part of a Linux HOWTO. Only people who answer yes to 4 need continue with the survey. You might ask how they compare in quality to other documentation, etc? David Lawyer From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id LAA25806 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:32:11 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id LAA23322 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:32:07 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id JAA28549 for ldp-l-list; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:22:10 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from wallybox.cei.net (tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net [204.180.109.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA28544 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:22:04 +0800 Received: from localhost (tjbynum@localhost) by wallybox.cei.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id UAA04159 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 20:17:26 -0500 Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 20:17:25 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim - HOWTO Coordinator To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: Submitting HOWTOs In-Reply-To: <19990408004846.B24273@barberouge.linux.lmm.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On Thu, 8 Apr 1999, Guylhem Aznar wrote: > On Wed, Apr 07, 1999 at 02:29:50PM -0700, David Lawyer wrote: > > sites. IMO Tim Bynum should not be bypassed without his OK. He once > > Right, I was forgetting you Tim, sorry. > > But are we 3 coordinators or 0 coordinators ? > > I suggest Lars keep the work. Ok....for the record, as much as they are (or at least that we wish they would be) one entity, the LDP and the HOWTO coordinator are *not* the same. I am not the LDP coordinator, and have never been. Greg has been handling this and continues to do so. From what I know and have discussed, Greg is plenty busy with the Web pages (please offer suggestions if you have them). I am trying to work with whomever and with as many of those interested in automating a great deal of the HOWTO submissions. It *will* still require human intervention at times (please, let's not discuss whether or not it will or will not at this time). We've never gotten any further than the initial wishes/wants/dreams that Lars has proposed regarding the LDP coordinator position. There still is *no* mailing list for the mini authors, and I asked opinions on this many months ago. To refresh, can we all cope with one list for all authors??? Anyhow, this is my take on the current situation. Most of the problems occur if and when I get ill or busy with work, and I sincerely want to help to alleviate this problem. I would imagine that we can continue to work on solutions while Lars is away, but let's do this as a *team* to insure that it will work and be successful. Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id LAA25823 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:34:52 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id LAA23333 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:34:48 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id JAA28570 for ldp-l-list; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:25:50 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from wallybox.cei.net (tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net [204.180.109.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA28565 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:25:45 +0800 Received: from localhost (tjbynum@localhost) by wallybox.cei.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id UAA04177 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 20:21:09 -0500 Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 20:21:09 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim - HOWTO Coordinator To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: Software-RAID-HOWTO In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk > began with RESEND. Will have it uploaded/updated this evening with the > rest. Had problems connecting to metalab last night (seems to be a lot of times these days) so I was unable to do the update. I don't like to leave this unattended for great periods of time, so will try again this evening in a couple of hours. Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id MAA25957 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 12:02:53 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id MAA23367 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 12:02:47 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id JAA28959 for ldp-l-list; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:53:09 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from pace.picante.com (IDENT:root@pace.picante.com [199.103.241.49]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA28953 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:53:03 +0800 Received: from pace.picante.com (gtaylor@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pace.picante.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA03989 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 21:52:55 -0400 Message-Id: <199904090152.VAA03989@pace.picante.com> To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: Submitting HOWTOs In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 08 Apr 1999 20:17:25 CDT." Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 21:52:54 -0300 From: Grant Taylor Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk >>>>> Tim - HOWTO Coordinator writes: > We've never gotten any further than the initial wishes/wants/dreams that > Lars has proposed regarding the LDP coordinator position. Lars did produce a beta implementation of a fully automated HOWTO-submit-o-matic system. > There still is *no* mailing list for the mini authors, and I asked > opinions on this many months ago. To refresh, can we all cope with one > list for all authors??? This list is very low traffic. I say add them. A good number of minis could stand for a promotion to full-fledged howto status, anyway. -- Grant Taylor - gtaylor@picante.com - http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/ Cellphone information: http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/cell/ Libretto information: http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/portable/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id HAA15796 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 07:18:37 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id HAA31080 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 07:18:28 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id FAA24506 for ldp-l-list; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 05:08:20 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from buster.bfr.co.il (root@morannon.bfr.co.il [192.116.142.129]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id FAA24502 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 05:08:10 +0800 Received: from vermis.bfr.co.il (vermis.bfr.co.il [128.253.154.43]) by buster.bfr.co.il (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA04528 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 00:07:58 +0300 Received: (from abel@localhost) by vermis.bfr.co.il (8.9.3/8.8.5) id AAA32617; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 00:07:58 +0300 To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: Submitting HOWTOs References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: abel@bfr.co.il (Alexander L. Belikoff) Date: 11 Apr 1999 00:07:57 +0300 In-Reply-To: Andries.Brouwer@cwi.nl's message of "Sat, 10 Apr 1999 22:48:03 +0200 (MET DST)" Message-ID: Lines: 15 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.45/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Andries.Brouwer@cwi.nl writes: > I consider data reduction a primary goal now. > Not five texts on every topic but a single one, reliable and up-to-date. I concur. OTOH, speaking of "advertizing", maybe we should talk to some big Linux guys, like RedHat or VA Research to convince them to register and to host ldp.org. This would create an ultimate linux documentation site... -- Alexander L. Belikoff Bloomberg L.P. / BFM Financial Research Ltd. abel@vallinor4.com, abel@bfr.co.il From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id IAA16060 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 08:18:23 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id IAA31133 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 08:18:16 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id GAA24636 for ldp-l-list; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 06:09:07 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from lafn.org (lafn.ORG [206.117.18.1]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id GAA24632 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 06:09:03 +0800 Received: by lafn.org id AA01385 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ldp-l@linux.org.au); Sat, 10 Apr 1999 15:08:54 -0700 Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 15:08:54 -0700 Message-Id: <199904102208.AA01385@lafn.org> From: bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer) To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: Submitting HOWTOs Reply-To: bf347@lafn.org Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk > >> * To improve LDP awareness, we could : > Andries wrote: >I do not consider it very interesting to promote LDP awareness. >LDP = Linux Documentation Project. >The job is to produce high quality documentation, not to advertize. I agree that improving the quality is of primary importance, but advertising is also desirable. There is a lot of valuable info in the HOWTOs. Quality is a relative thing. The quality of my Text-Terminal-HOWTO is perhaps below average on an absolute scale, but since there is nothing else available to compete with it, it's IMHO the best there is on the topic (including print media). >Long ago, when there was no documentation at all, every scrap of text >was welcome. These days we have many megabytes of documentation - >far too much, and partly written by people who didnt understand the >details but report on how they made something work. There are also some areas that don't seem to be covered very well (if at all) such as the USB (Universal Serial Bus) and Terminal Servers. I mention these topics (but don't go into them) in my HOWTOs. > >I consider data reduction a primary goal now. >Not five texts on every topic but a single one, reliable and up-to-date. > >Automated submission of HOWTOs is the least important of our problems. It's important to be able to rapidly correct errors or provide new important info in HOWTOs. One may get feedback about a week or so after the HOWTO is released and then it should be possible to send in a revised HOWTO on almost the same day. Such a revised HOWTO should not have to then wait weeks to get to metalab. With automated submission it may get there within a day. If we had experts writing the documentation, this might not be as important. But even experts make mistakes and sometimes don't explain things clearly to the novice. So fast revison capability is still needed. For novices writing documentation, it's even more important. David Lawyer From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id VAA13065 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 21:35:48 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id VAA04389 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 21:35:42 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id TAA25218 for ldp-l-list; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 19:12:29 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from eros.cs.hut.fi (eros.cs.hut.fi [130.233.193.40]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id TAA25212 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 19:12:25 +0800 Received: by eros.cs.hut.fi via sendmail from stdin id (Debian Smail3.2.0.102) for ldp-l@linux.org.au; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:12:20 +0300 (EEST) Date: Tue, 13 May 1999 11:12:19 GMT Message-ID: From: Lars Wirzenius To: Subject: Re: Submitting HOWTOs In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-md5"; boundary="130.233.193.40.9849.8723.924001939.619.5898"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk This is a MIME message. --130.233.193.40.9849.8723.924001939.619.5898 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable abel@bfr.co.il (Alexander L. Belikoff): > I concur. OTOH, speaking of "advertizing", maybe we should talk to > some big Linux guys, like RedHat or VA Research to convince them to > register and to host ldp.org. This would create an ultimate linux > documentation site... ldp.org is already taken. We already have linuxdoc.org, courtesy of Jim Pic= k. We also have lists.linuxdoc.org and ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org, courtes= y of Debian. (I'm still on sick leave, and am unable to process mail very often. This is= the first time in two weeks I'm at work, where I can process mail, and I probab= ly won't be able to come back again for a while. I can walk again, but not very well= --130.233.193.40.9849.8723.924001939.619.5898-- From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA13896 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 00:31:26 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA05403 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 00:31:20 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id WAA27214 for ldp-l-list; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 22:09:15 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from eros.cs.hut.fi (eros.cs.hut.fi [130.233.193.40]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id WAA27209 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 22:09:10 +0800 Received: by eros.cs.hut.fi via sendmail from stdin id (Debian Smail3.2.0.102) for ldp-l@linux.org.au; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:09:09 +0300 (EEST) Date: Tue, 13 May 1999 14:09:08 GMT Message-ID: From: Lars Wirzenius To: Subject: Re: Submitting HOWTOs In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-md5"; boundary="130.233.193.40.9849.9566.924012548.488.32614"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk This is a MIME message. --130.233.193.40.9849.9566.924012548.488.32614 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Andries.Brouwer@cwi.nl: > My point is that we do not want to have any HOWTOs at all. > From that point of view the speed of updating them becomes irrelevant. However we decide to structure our documents (and I agree that having a large number of howtos is probably not a good idea, and it would be a better idea to fold them into the guides), it is necessary that updates c= an be published as quickly and painlessly as possible. -- Stupid little mailer under construction, apologies for any inconvenience. --130.233.193.40.9849.9566.924012548.488.32614 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.6.3ia iQCVAwUBNxNQA4QRll5MupLRAQHi7gP/TRX3M344ZbkKwMOTJWg2SnmRhUPD5fUI KWzqbRcPyi+6skrCPdQh0/mgbiBhnigeJh3H9PvizfKElrps5mwE95Th88e97YtN es9cy+/D3EMt2967ZS2QzzBZ++2saDCqUDmLjuXPCxBWN/1mmiTEynRI3SkWGkZ3 Ujc//m2hA80= =67on -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --130.233.193.40.9849.9566.924012548.488.32614-- This was a MIME message. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA13922 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 00:36:31 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA05414 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 00:36:26 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id WAA27318 for ldp-l-list; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 22:17:42 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from buster.bfr.co.il (root@morannon.bfr.co.il [192.116.142.129]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id WAA27312 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 22:17:34 +0800 Received: from vermis.bfr.co.il (vermis.bfr.co.il [128.253.154.43]) by buster.bfr.co.il (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA16947 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:16:58 +0300 Received: (from abel@localhost) by vermis.bfr.co.il (8.9.3/8.8.5) id RAA26974; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:16:57 +0300 To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: Submitting HOWTOs Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Multipart_Tue_Apr_13_17:16:52_1999-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: abel@bfr.co.il (Alexander L. Belikoff) Date: 13 Apr 1999 17:16:52 +0300 Message-ID: Lines: 27 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.45/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk --Multipart_Tue_Apr_13_17:16:52_1999-1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII --Multipart_Tue_Apr_13_17:16:52_1999-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Message-Id: <199904131412.KAA04047@dhcpd17.redhat.com> To: abel@bfr.co.il (Alexander L. Belikoff) Subject: Re: [abel@bfr.co.il (Alexander L. Belikoff)] Re: Submitting HOWTOs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:12:35 -0400 From: Marc Ewing > I concur. OTOH, speaking of "advertizing", maybe we should talk to > some big Linux guys, like RedHat or VA Research to convince them to > register and to host ldp.org. This would create an ultimate linux > documentation site... We'd be happy to do this. -Marc --Multipart_Tue_Apr_13_17:16:52_1999-1-- From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA14091 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 01:09:01 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA05445 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 01:08:57 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id WAA27493 for ldp-l-list; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 22:33:30 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from lafn.org (lafn.ORG [206.117.18.1]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id WAA27489 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 22:33:26 +0800 Received: by lafn.org id AA05093 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ldp-l@linux.org.au); Tue, 13 Apr 1999 07:33:12 -0700 Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 07:33:12 -0700 Message-Id: <199904131433.AA05093@lafn.org> From: bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer) To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: Submitting HOWTOs Reply-To: bf347@lafn.org Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk > >Tim - HOWTO Coordinator : >> There still is *no* mailing list for the mini authors, and I asked >> opinions on this many months ago. To refresh, can we all cope with one >> list for all authors??? > >I see no reason at all why they can't be added to ldp-l, and of course ever= >yone I think we should not do this. Instead, broadcast a message to them and ask if they would like to be on the ldp-l list. Since many of the mini's are short, the authors don't have as much of a stake in LDP as most regular HOWTO authors do. They may not want to be on the list. Then every few months or so there should be a newsletter re what's happening sent out to everyone (including all mini authors). From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id UAA19882 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 20:30:40 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id UAA06986 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 20:30:34 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id SAA13743 for ldp-l-list; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 18:17:50 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from doughnut.remcomp.fr (alpha-dummy.remcomp.fr [194.51.30.245]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id SAA13738 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 18:17:29 +0800 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by lmm.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with UUCP id KAA17554 for ldp-l@linux.org.au; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:51:21 +0200 Received: by barberouge via sendmail with stdio id for ldp-l@linux.org.au; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 18:42:45 -0100 (GMT+1) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #1 built 1999-Jan-23) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 18:42:45 -0100 From: Guylhem Aznar To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: Submitting HOWTOs Message-ID: <19990413184245.A1516@barberouge.linux.lmm.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Lars Wirzenius on Thu, May 13, 1999 at 11:12:19AM +0000 Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On Thu, May 13, 1999 at 11:12:19AM +0000, Lars Wirzenius wrote: > ldp.org is already taken. We already have linuxdoc.org, courtesy of Jim Pick. > We also have lists.linuxdoc.org and ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org, courtesy > of Debian. So what about using www.linuxdoc.org ? This site could be linked by distributions instead of giving old HOWTOs on their own sites. > (I'm still on sick leave, and am unable to process mail very often. > This is the first time in two weeks I'm at work, where I can process > mail, and I probably won't be able to come back again for a while. I > can walk again, but not very well Nice to see you again. -- ____/| "Letting people bear arms is letting them kill our children" \ o.O| Enlever rrremovethis / Remove rrremovethis =(_)= Salut / Best regards \u/ Guylhem AZNAR From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id XAA09320 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 23:36:49 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id XAA16639 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 23:36:42 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id VAA03098 for ldp-l-list; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 21:01:49 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from sigtrap.guug.de (truemper@sigtrap.GUUG.DE [134.95.80.189]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id VAA03093 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 21:01:38 +0800 Received: (from truemper@localhost) by sigtrap.guug.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA03436; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 15:01:28 +0200 Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 15:00:42 +0200 (CEST) From: Winfried Truemper X-Sender: winni@localhost To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: HOWTO uploads In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk People are complaining why I do not submit new versions to metalab. That costs me time for a polite answer, that the LDP is working on the problem of delayed uploads. However, since I'm telling that for over a year now and the CD-Writing HOWTO on metalab still dates from December 16th, 1997, my statements are no longer credible. The current version dates of April 11th, 1999 and large parts have been rewritten in the meantime to reflect newest developments. I even spent a whole day on booting my machine with various kernels immediatly after 2.2.1 came out. Today I got a question where to submit the SGML-source for an IDE-CD-writer mini HOWTO. Somebody thought it would be time to add the information to the LDP pool, which is covered by the current CD-Writing HOWTO. I submitted the HOWTO many times to the official addresses over the last 18 months. I'm clueless what I do wrong. So I think it is really time to send an kill -14 to this list. Please somebody with access to metalab do me a favour and upload my HOWTO. I remember times when we discussed to punish publishers, who distribute old versions of HOWTOs. Thus Eric is the right person to upload my HOWTO, he is aware of all the disadvantages. *g* If it is not possible to upload my HOWTO immediatly, then please change the link in the survey to point to my site: ftp://ftp.guug.de/pub/members/truemper/cdr/ Please Cc to me, because I'm probably not yet approved to this list again. -Winfried From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA05291 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 04:04:15 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA22300 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 04:04:08 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id BAA23670 for ldp-l-list; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 01:51:16 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from sigtrap.guug.de (truemper@sigtrap.GUUG.DE [134.95.80.189]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA23666 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 01:51:08 +0800 Received: (from truemper@localhost) by sigtrap.guug.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA16090; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 19:50:42 +0200 Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 19:49:53 +0200 (CEST) From: Winfried Truemper X-Sender: winni@localhost To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: HOWTO uploads In-Reply-To: <19990418004238.A1031@barberouge.linux.lmm.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On Sun, 18 Apr 1999, Guylhem Aznar wrote: > I do not share your opinion, [..] Kill -14 means SIGALRM (send an alarm to a process). It's standarized by POSIX and not my opinion. If a HOWTO does not get updated for 16 months, that is IMHO worth an alarm for the whole process-group (read: the mailinglist). Just in case the joke was too geekish to understand without explanation. > We should improve the system instead of blaming it. Come on, what did I say about the "system" as a whole? I did only tell the list what goes wrong with my my my my my my HOWTO. I'm an utterly egoist. And continuing to be that, the current problem is to update the CD-Writing HOWTO. Now. P-L-E-A-S-E. How else should people learn about burning their illegally downloaded MP3-collection on CD-Rs most efficiently, he? Long-term improvements[1] can developed once we have identified the problem and I did not preclude that the problem is sitting in front of my screen. However, individual SIGUSR-signals did fail, so I try another handler. -Winfried [1]: To the process of uploading the CD-Writing HOWTO, not the case of downloading MP3-filez, brother.[2][3] [2]: Just in case there is room for a misunderstanding. [3]: Perhaps we should adapt warez[4]-rules: One can download 10k worth of HOWTOs, if he/she uploads 1k of new text. That could result into the following scenario: info: error: you did not yet upload your 1k of free software today. Press u to write and upload or e to exit (u/e): [4]: Something windoze-weenies need to run the software they could never afford legally. [5]: BTW, please don't forget to \textblink{upload} the newest CD-Writing-HOWTO to metalab. Here is the URL for my site: ftp://ftp.guug.de/pub/members/truemper/cdr/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA22270 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 00:26:58 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA28325 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 00:26:54 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id WAA02263 for ldp-l-list; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:08:01 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from pace.picante.com (IDENT:root@pace.picante.com [199.103.241.49]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id WAA02254 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:07:46 +0800 Received: from pace.picante.com (gtaylor@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pace.picante.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA00769 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:07:34 -0400 Message-Id: <199904211407.KAA00769@pace.picante.com> To: Linux Documentation Project Subject: Re: HOWTO uploads In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 21 Apr 1999 15:37:53 +0200." Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:07:33 -0300 From: Grant Taylor Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk >>>>> Primoz Peterlin writes: > For instance, I have learned that I am not allowed to write dates > like "4. marec", but instead I should write "4 March", otherwise > Greg and later Tim had to manually assemble the HOWTO INDEX. It would be ideal if we could standardize on a date format easily implementable by RCS. I've been sending out normal RCS dates and version numbers, and Tim appears to do a manual reformat of the version and data. Date formats are small potatoes, though. Our posting pipeline is clogged on one end. Whatever happened to Lars' first crack at an automated system? Can anyone get control of it to tinker in his absence? Alternatively, since the existing process is not keeping up, we could make minor revisions to it in the interests of scalability. Perhaps we could change "Tim the One" into "Tims the Many" and assign two or three people to do the HOWTO posting. They could alternate weekly, or each own a subset of howtos, or something like that. With any luck at all, at least one or two will manage to avoid the coordinator's curse ;) -- Grant Taylor - gtaylor@picante.com - http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/ Cellphone information: http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/cell/ Libretto information: http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/portable/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id GAA24171 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 06:50:02 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id GAA29970 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 06:49:56 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id EAA10466 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 04:21:27 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from doughnut.remcomp.fr (alpha-dummy.remcomp.fr [194.51.30.245]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id EAA10462 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 04:21:19 +0800 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by lmm.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with UUCP id UAA08894 for ldp-l@linux.org.au; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 20:43:54 +0200 Received: by barberouge via sendmail with stdio id for ldp-l@linux.org.au; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 20:56:31 +0200 (CEST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #1 built 1999-Jan-23) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 20:56:31 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subjetct: oops Message-ID: <19990421205631.A8956@barberouge.linux.lmm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Sorry for the delay, my server was down. On Mon, Apr 19, 1999 at 10:23:58AM +1000, David Wood wrote: > However, we all need to understand that this is a volunteer effort. > The LDP coords are as busy as we are and can't always cater to our > needs immediately. HOWTOs should be sent to Tim ; he uploads them ASAP. Since very few people know about LDP organization, what about announcing to LWN a short sum up, something like : * Our primary domain * How the LDP is working * List of the latest HOWTOs+mini * List of other LDP documents * Submitting new documents (HOWTOs,mini,LDP) If no one wants to write that, I can submit here a preversion. -- ____/| "Letting people bear arms is letting them kill our children" \ o.O| Enlever rrremovethis / Remove rrremovethis =(_)= Salut / Best regards \u/ Guylhem AZNAR From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id KAA25176 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:20:50 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id KAA30131 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:20:45 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id IAA11815 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 08:10:09 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from pace.picante.com (IDENT:root@pace.picante.com [199.103.241.49]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id IAA11811 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 08:10:01 +0800 Received: from pace.picante.com (gtaylor@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pace.picante.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA24650 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 20:09:55 -0400 Message-Id: <199904220009.UAA24650@pace.picante.com> To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: HOWTO uploads In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:50:13 +0200." Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 20:09:54 -0300 From: Grant Taylor Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk > Interestingly, I do not see Greg and Tim participate in this discussion. This is part of the curse ;( > [...] > We'll have to move to DocBook. This means that part 1 will become > much less trivial. Since not many people will have much experience > with DocBook it will be important that the maintainer knows about > this stuff, can help authors and solve minor problems. A growing number of people do have DocBook knowledge: it's being used for the Gnome documentation, for example. Debian is also using sgml with a non-linuxdoc DTD, but I think it's just a variation on linuxdoc. Debian does include a proper docbook toolkit; Red Hat hasn't bothered afaik. > It looks a bit as if Tim is doing a lousy job. My main complaint > would not be that it took a month and a lot of email prodding for my > last HOWTO to get to metalab, but more that Tim has a low visibility > here, does not react to questions, etc. Having sent him half a dozen > letters without getting replies, I think that he is not the > appropriate person to guide a conversion to DocBook. Blunt and, alas, true. We seem to have come to this conclusion two or three times, at which point Tim pops up and processes a bit of the backlog. > So the question arises: are there people here that do know DocBook? I have been converting many HOWTOs into DocBook and forming a book out of them; I posted a summary of my initial experiences with db and the sgmltools-2 package some time ago. The summary is: db is a) cleaner and b) more of a pain On point A, Docbook is a much better DTD than linuxdoc. There is good documenation available, and it is exceedingly well designed. On point B, the free tools (sgmltools-2 especially) are not terribly polished: they're slow, buggy, somewhat inflexible, etc. Also, the design of docbook results in lots more tags than there were before, although this is mitigated somewhat by decent emacs sgml modes. If you look at docbook documents, you'll notice a number of immediately useful features we've not had in linuxdoc: - Proper indexing. The index tags available in linuxdoc are, at best, a hack. They're much better in docbook, although I'm not sure if our software makes use of them. - Tips, Warnings, Notes, etc. There are tags for tips, warnings, etc, which get rendered as a stand-offish paragraph with an icon tro draw attention to it. - Pictures. - Distinct markup for screen images ("you will see this when you run fdisk") versus program listings ("here is a script that does foo") versus stuff for a user to type at a prompt, etc. - Tables. I think tables exist in modern linuxdoc flavors, but I never even tried, and no one else seems to have done, either. Missing: - Decent ASCII output. The current sgmltools-2 mechanism is to run the html output through lynx, which turns out poorly in many cases. I don't recall a TOC appearing, either. We might, in theory, decide that ascii is no great loss; Eric did so for the Jargon file, for example. I, for one, would prefer to have ascii if at all possible; it's just the thing for when I want to include part of my HOWTO in mail or Usenet messages. -- Grant Taylor - gtaylor@picante.com - http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/ Cellphone information: http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/cell/ Libretto information: http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/portable/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA30062 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 02:30:23 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA31984 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 02:30:19 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id AAA20442 for ldp-l-list; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 00:10:34 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from cupido.cs.hut.fi (mail@kantele.in.helsinki.fi [128.214.182.90]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA20438 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 00:10:07 +0800 Received: from liw by cupido.cs.hut.fi with local (Exim 2.11 #1 (Debian)) for ldp-l@linux.org.au id 10aLtK-0000Xe-00; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 18:59:54 +0300 Date: thu, 22 may 1999 15:59:54 GMT Message-ID: From: Lars Wirzenius To: Subject: Re: Submitting HOWTOs In-Reply-To: <199904132052.QAA04837@chef.redhat.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-md5"; boundary="130.233.193.44.9849.2009.924796794.521.8108"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk This is a MIME message. --130.233.193.44.9849.2009.924796794.521.8108 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable djb@redhat.com: > This offer is still open. We'd be willing to host a domain and = > provide web and FTP space for the LDP. = The DNS for linuxdoc.org is hosted by Jim Pick, lists.linuxdoc.org is hosted by Debian. There's also been discussion about a CVS server, and it might be nice to switch the master LDP website (to be called master.linuxdoc.org, or something) from metalab.unc.edu to somewhere where several LDP people can have accounts, so that if there are problems they can be solved by any of several people, to lessen the impact of the LDP curse. (Of course, this might result in all LDP authors getting hospitalized.) Could Red Hat host master.linuxdoc.org for running an upload automation thingy and master website (from which metalab would mirror) and provide accounts for several LDP people interested in maintaining these things? -- Stupid little mailer under construction, sorry for any problems. --130.233.193.44.9849.2009.924796794.521.8108 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.6.3ia iQCVAwUBNx9HeYQRll5MupLRAQHIBAP7BCjRSRZEpFW84Bu2/A3GVNEMudXBg1Fv 5iGrS7+f3r9glnlCwJR4iHeEU0kvM4wRNpmVlziK1hylxbuG1AxX4jlPRN8hXgav hpR/h0z5jFF+zJp6tjjLge8WYv95D1RNRGQU6gwqCFTW9TCe4RxFIvj7zkI6cUER dcJ2jcdMmso= =iIUk -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --130.233.193.44.9849.2009.924796794.521.8108-- This was a MIME message. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA30087 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 02:34:48 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA31995 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 02:34:44 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id AAA20489 for ldp-l-list; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 00:22:55 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from cupido.cs.hut.fi (mail@kantele.in.helsinki.fi [128.214.182.90]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA20485 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 00:22:49 +0800 Received: from liw by cupido.cs.hut.fi with local (Exim 2.11 #1 (Debian)) for ldp-l@linux.org.au id 10aLgX-0000XH-00; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 18:46:41 +0300 Date: thu, 22 may 1999 15:46:41 GMT Message-ID: From: Lars Wirzenius To: Subject: Re: Submitting HOWTOs In-Reply-To: <199904131433.AA05093@lafn.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-md5"; boundary="130.233.193.44.9849.2009.924796001.055.5663"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk This is a MIME message. --130.233.193.44.9849.2009.924796001.055.5663 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable (My back problems continue, and I can't sit in front of computer for long = periods of time, but I can now at least process mail from home.) bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer): > I think we should not do this. Instead, broadcast a message to them and = > ask if they would like to be on the ldp-l list. Since many of the mini's= = > are short, the authors don't have as much of a stake in LDP as most = > regular HOWTO authors do. They may not want to be on the list. That's what I meant, but failed to express. One must always ask before adding people to a list - failure to do so is gross misbehaviour. > Then every few months or so there should be a newsletter re what's = > happening sent out to everyone (including all mini authors). We may want to create an ldp-announce -list later, or possibly an ldp-author-announce as well. -- Stupid little mailer under construction, sorry for any problems. --130.233.193.44.9849.2009.924796001.055.5663 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.6.3ia iQCVAwUBNx9EYIQRll5MupLRAQHd2wP/VLWNRFYjviaeOAl5ESavzPdkPYKo0x/W ZCuKElN3Nl+GfM11F26rcCI2mkxYWPs/7naUHtG5syWSJeFzMtWjUbJlTnYbR+yd MdKghkVOsLJkYM2zgvFvkFlD6RMcPGFBPm37+5IqIulr9Rd4ANHzeCH8j6ZkvXvL USbiPMqvSoE= =B8qI -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --130.233.193.44.9849.2009.924796001.055.5663-- This was a MIME message. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA30117 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 02:39:08 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA32007 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 02:39:04 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id AAA20483 for ldp-l-list; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 00:22:46 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from cupido.cs.hut.fi (mail@kantele.in.helsinki.fi [128.214.182.90]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA20479 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 00:22:41 +0800 Received: from liw by cupido.cs.hut.fi with local (Exim 2.11 #1 (Debian)) for ldp-l@linux.org.au id 10aLnr-0000XZ-00; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 18:54:15 +0300 Date: thu, 22 may 1999 15:54:15 GMT Message-ID: From: Lars Wirzenius To: Subject: In-Reply-To: <19990421205631.A8956@barberouge.linux.lmm.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-md5"; boundary="130.233.193.44.9849.2009.924796455.461.28732"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk This is a MIME message. --130.233.193.44.9849.2009.924796455.461.28732 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Guylhem Aznar : > Since very few people know about LDP organization, what about announcing > to LWN a short sum up, something like : I'd wait on any public announcements until we have an upload system that is fast. This means that any human intervention and manual labour on Tim's side is out of the question. (It's OK to require a little bit more wo= rk from the authors, such as checking date formats automatically not refusing uploa= ds that have such problems.) As a goal, I think it should take less than 24 ho= urs for an upload to be made available on www.linuxdoc.org. This should be doable. The prototype code I wrote does much of the work, I think, but I'd like to hear from TIm and Greg about what it needs to do more. My code needs to be reviewed and hacked on some more, but that's a small matter of programming. I'll try to remember to put it on the web when I go on-line again. -- = Stupid little mailer under construction, sorry for any problems. --130.233.193.44.9849.2009.924796455.461.28732 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.6.3ia iQCVAwUBNx9GJoQRll5MupLRAQHILwP8C1b998bUTKJXKAKwsR9XkTin8hk594nI cjKueBCr5/ch/n5NdfedOfhjQuKr0UqvhIPXNnT3FWWB85CcZqz2K2SPlSv6uY4J kMLs9+/tAfw/YLaycKHYBgmyRdl9deOFYU4cnVZGs74sv9YbrosjweKkU/8GagNl Tm3BR1dvQOI= =glTY -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --130.233.193.44.9849.2009.924796455.461.28732-- This was a MIME message. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id FAA30963 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 05:47:39 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id FAA32111 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 05:47:36 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id DAA27333 for ldp-l-list; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 03:35:17 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from lafn.org (lafn.ORG [206.117.18.1]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id DAA27329 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 03:35:10 +0800 Received: by lafn.org id AA21344 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ldp-l@linux.org.au); Thu, 22 Apr 1999 12:35:00 -0700 Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 12:35:00 -0700 Message-Id: <199904221935.AA21344@lafn.org> From: bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer) To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: HOWTO latency Reply-To: bf347@lafn.org Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk It was March 21, 1999 when the last HOWTOs were uploaded to metalab. It's now April 21 (a one month delay). I found a serious error in one of my HOWTOs but a corrected version has been waiting almost a month in Tim Bynum's mail box. He likely has a good excuse. Sometimes I make some changes to a HOWTO say a week or so after I send it in. Then I send it in again since I note that it hasn't been uploaded to metalab yet. I've started to note this in the subject header by adding a + to the version number. Then if I send in an update again before the + version has made it to metatlab a ++ is appears after the version number, etc. Since Tim Bynum said that he was also working on automating the uploading HOWTOs I would like to be assured that Lars Wirzenius and he are coordinating their efforts so as to minimize any duplication of effort. Dave Lawyer From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id KAA32386 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 10:01:40 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id KAA32543 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 10:01:34 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id HAA28551 for ldp-l-list; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 07:50:33 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from buster.bfr.co.il (root@morannon.bfr.co.il [192.116.142.129]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id HAA28547 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 07:50:27 +0800 Received: from vermis.bfr.co.il (vermis.bfr.co.il [128.253.154.43]) by buster.bfr.co.il (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA12687 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 02:50:15 +0300 Received: (from abel@localhost) by vermis.bfr.co.il (8.9.3/8.8.5) id CAA09193; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 02:50:15 +0300 To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: HOWTO uploads References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: abel@bfr.co.il (Alexander L. Belikoff) Date: 23 Apr 1999 02:50:14 +0300 In-Reply-To: Andries.Brouwer@cwi.nl's message of "Fri, 23 Apr 1999 00:22:49 +0200 (MET DST)" Message-ID: Lines: 11 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.45/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Andries.Brouwer@cwi.nl writes: > Concerning the move to DocBook, we need Anyone considered (gasp) XML? Seems to be pretty good at indexing stuff... -- Alexander L. Belikoff Bloomberg L.P. / BFM Financial Research Ltd. abel@vallinor4.com, abel@bfr.co.il From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id KAA32659 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 10:50:27 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id KAA32568 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 10:50:22 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id IAA28967 for ldp-l-list; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 08:41:10 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from pace.picante.com (IDENT:root@pace.picante.com [199.103.241.49]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id IAA28963 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 08:40:40 +0800 Received: from pace.picante.com (gtaylor@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pace.picante.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA01286 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 20:40:18 -0400 Message-Id: <199904230040.UAA01286@pace.picante.com> To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: HOWTO uploads In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 23 Apr 1999 00:22:49 +0200." Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 20:40:16 -0300 From: Grant Taylor Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk >>>>> Andries.Brouwer@cwi.nl writes: > Concerning the move to DocBook, we need > (i) a stable set of tools > (ii) examples of some HOWTOs with DocBook markup. > (iii) a conversion script that will handle 98% of the conversion > Linuxdoc -> DocBook automatically, and a README discussing what > handwork if any will remain to be done. > (iv) a site that collects the DocBook-sgml sources of all HOWTOs. > (v) someone with experience, able to help. > You just volunteered for job (v). Doh! > It will be very easy to settle (iv) - I am willing to do this myself > (say, on ftp.win.tue.nl, or on ftp.kernel.org, in the doc directory). Quite. > I suppose (iii) exists already? Yes, iii exists already. It does a fair to poor job, depending on the howto. By this I mean that it produces db sgml that works with jade, but it is in some cases not correct, and in most cases not ideal - there's lots of places where we just used the "next-best" tag to mark something up when there is an appropriate tag in db. Some people form lists of things out of mid-level headings, for example, or do tables in verbatim blocks. Index tags just don't convert. The various flavors of hyperlink in linuxdoc are not differentiated. Many greater-than and less-than signs disappear. The sgmltools (or is it jade?) don't support references to anchors; you have to refer to a labeled section heading. The sgmltools don't seem to build indexes at all (once you put in the db index tags). Various types of quotes and blockquotes get all mucked up. It does mostly work; I would guess that it takes between 1 and 5 hours to manually spruce up a HOWTO to use the expanded tag set of db. > You have (ii) available? Sort of. I've been converting automagically with the sgmltools script, then postprocessing with a perl nasty that also demotes all the heading levels by one, adds a prefix to all labels, and so on. I have only massaged things to compile without errors; I have not added in all the extra tags that should be there, since they mostly get lost again upon conversion to RTF (don't ask). The sgmltools project has a whole set of howtos they ran through the converter as proof-of-concept. > So far I had heard mixed news about the stability of sgmltools-2, > but I see that FreeBSD converted to DocBook, and at first sight very > successfully, so probably things work sufficiently well these days. There is a trick to this: FreeBSD does not use sgmltools. Sgmltools is a Perl and Python wrapper script around jade, jadetex, and the dsssl stuff; FreeBSD simply uses those tools directly with functionally equivalent scripts like "db2html" and "db2ps" (which come with jade and friends, I think). It is by no means a given that you must use sgmltools-2 or even jade. You could do all your work in Adept*Publisher on NT, and it wouldn't matter to the project. The complete set of free sgml processing tools is functional but not pretty. Particularly weak is the dsssl stuff; while it's powerful as implemented, it's rather difficult to use if you want to do more than tweak the few things the dsssl stylesheet author had the foresight to arrange a simple variable for. Also amusing is that you need a *really* big TeX to run jadetex. It took me a lot of mucking around to find that what I needed was a TeX that had fully runtime-configurable pool sizes. Even with that, it may be impossible for jadetex to generate a document longer than two or three thousand pages. HOWTO-sized documents will be fine, though. > So where is (i)? > I tried http://www.sgmltools.org/ and got sgmltools-2.0.2. > It didnt compile on my first attempt (on a RedHat 5.2 machine) > - will investigate a bit more. Hmm. It worked fine for me, but then I've got a bastardized rh 5.0 box (which I really need to get around to replacing with Debian). The sgmltools mailing list archives are reasonable; they helped me out with a few glitches. > As a final remark: you mention that there is no good ASCII output, > but the docs seem to imply that sgmltools -b txt should work. > Doesn't it? Yes, it works, but it is simply the html output run through lynx. All the limitations of lynx apply: no tables, no index, no toc. It's also "narrower" than it used to be. -- Grant Taylor - gtaylor@picante.com - http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/ Cellphone information: http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/cell/ Libretto information: http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/portable/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id UAA02983 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 20:23:24 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id UAA00534 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 20:23:18 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id SAA01981 for ldp-l-list; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 18:07:03 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from cupido.cs.hut.fi (mail@jouhikko.in.helsinki.fi [128.214.182.100]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id SAA01977 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 18:06:54 +0800 Received: from liw by cupido.cs.hut.fi with local (Exim 2.11 #1 (Debian)) for ldp-l@linux.org.au id 10aciO-0000u4-00; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 12:57:44 +0300 Date: fri, 23 may 1999 09:57:44 GMT Message-ID: From: Lars Wirzenius To: Subject: Re: Submitting HOWTOs In-Reply-To: <19990422230237.D31959@albert.aapra.org.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-md5"; boundary="130.233.193.44.9849.3346.924861464.115.31120"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk This is a MIME message. --130.233.193.44.9849.3346.924861464.115.31120 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Terry Dawson : > On Sat, May 22, 1999 at 03:46:41PM +0000, Lars Wirzenius wrote: > > We may want to create an ldp-announce -list later, or possibly an > > ldp-author-announce as well. > = > ldp-l-announce already exists and has done for some time. Not all HOWTO > authors are on ldp-l. True, and I'd forgotten about that. I'd like to move all lists to under lists.linuxdoc.org, however; let's use that domain now that we have it. Terry, could you work with listmaster@debian.org to move the list? -- Stupid little mailer under construction, sorry for any problems. --130.233.193.44.9849.3346.924861464.115.31120 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.6.3ia iQCVAwUBNyBEF4QRll5MupLRAQFJIgP9HZIKZu+BIPCSMfBcVR5D0L+nstORyDxh jY2/JNlKhrSLhJEDpdQ05KojewPnKucm6qb8iM18U2fOYhsskL+Kk3rO1K8+80qt cls7Cz02ftU5XkL3a+uqHMluVf1c09pkTjEKsk15EqDHehzOm+O9PI4dyHCsx0bR VVA534lSw2s= =/Adh -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --130.233.193.44.9849.3346.924861464.115.31120-- This was a MIME message. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id UAA03033 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 20:31:09 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id UAA00557 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 20:31:05 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id SAA01961 for ldp-l-list; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 18:06:32 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from cupido.cs.hut.fi (mail@jouhikko.in.helsinki.fi [128.214.182.100]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id SAA01954 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 18:06:25 +0800 Received: from liw by cupido.cs.hut.fi with local (Exim 2.11 #1 (Debian)) for ldp-l@linux.org.au id 10acpH-0000uB-00; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 13:04:51 +0300 Date: fri, 23 may 1999 10:04:51 GMT Message-ID: From: Lars Wirzenius To: Subject: HOWTO latency In-Reply-To: <199904221935.AA21344@lafn.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-md5"; boundary="130.233.193.44.9849.3346.924861891.475.23171"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk This is a MIME message. --130.233.193.44.9849.3346.924861891.475.23171 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer): > Since Tim Bynum said that he was also working on automating the uploa= ding = > HOWTOs I would like to be assured that Lars Wirzenius and he are = > coordinating their efforts so as to minimize any duplication of effor= t. Well, given that I haven't had much opportunity to do anything about it for some weeks, I can't say there's been much coordination. Not that Tim has been unresponsive. I agree that uploads should be handled quickly, preferably completely automatically (as long as they're updates to existing howtos; new ones will need some manual attention for the first upload). We've been discussin= g the automation for months and years now, it's time to get it working. I'll = dig out what I've written, polish it as much as my back allows, and make it available to anyone who wants to hack on it. Someone should also take a look at the Debian documentation project's stuff, and how they use SGML and CVS to coordinate things. This might be usable for us as is, in fact. They even handle translations well, I'm told. -- Stupid little mailer under construction, sorry for any problems. --130.233.193.44.9849.3346.924861891.475.23171 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.6.3ia iQCVAwUBNyBFwoQRll5MupLRAQE07AQArIeDRKmbDujAONU82nepg0B2i84ssmeh vMngYYL/qSFmUunoebwjt2xlEdlQajI3YHiIj1AhZXAkTKunuZS2Yxlf7nXY6SGB wmQQoujm76Jnyz1D5LlsDzJTnfrviwr6kBmqWerR1HESzYfn+nIOw/L436OCXUzE YfQu/yZbhyk= =UdTp -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --130.233.193.44.9849.3346.924861891.475.23171-- This was a MIME message. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id UAA03039 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 20:31:13 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id UAA00568 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 20:31:10 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id SAA01972 for ldp-l-list; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 18:06:41 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from cupido.cs.hut.fi (mail@jouhikko.in.helsinki.fi [128.214.182.100]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id SAA01964 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 18:06:35 +0800 Received: from liw by cupido.cs.hut.fi with local (Exim 2.11 #1 (Debian)) for ldp-l@linux.org.au id 10acgQ-0000u0-00; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 12:55:42 +0300 Date: fri, 23 may 1999 09:55:42 GMT Message-ID: From: Lars Wirzenius To: Subject: Re: Submitting HOWTOs In-Reply-To: <19990422230414.E31959@albert.aapra.org.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-md5"; boundary="130.233.193.44.9849.3346.924861342.126.21427"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk This is a MIME message. --130.233.193.44.9849.3346.924861342.126.21427 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Terry Dawson : > > Could Red Hat host master.linuxdoc.org for running an upload automation > > thingy and master website (from which metalab would mirror) and provide > > accounts for several LDP people interested in maintaining these things? > = > Linux Australia certainly could. Well, I don't really care who does it, as long as it gets done. The first one to do it gets my vote. -- Stupid little mailer under construction, sorry for any problems. --130.233.193.44.9849.3346.924861342.126.21427 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.6.3ia iQCVAwUBNyBDnYQRll5MupLRAQHa5AP+Pv/VDgeR7H/bO8sZeYii0I9Ol5DxBxeK 28T6rxKhUNUvR+lV2/3kvUtHFevBhPKWhw6yV6iHA2JWg9jBXb/Uyt/QsanZoscq lte4kdtvsWdJc1DLtU+jgp/NHd1e3+8qh/Wnf/Pvwcl6qoxdXWwESjMLGzcoAwlA jwalOCrIWek= =+LrH -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --130.233.193.44.9849.3346.924861342.126.21427-- This was a MIME message. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA04441 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 01:24:03 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA01747 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 01:23:59 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id XAA04933 for ldp-l-list; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 23:08:28 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from pace.picante.com (IDENT:root@pace.picante.com [199.103.241.49]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id XAA04926 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 23:08:17 +0800 Received: from pace.picante.com (gtaylor@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pace.picante.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA20188 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 11:08:10 -0400 Message-Id: <199904231508.LAA20188@pace.picante.com> To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: your mail In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 23 Apr 1999 02:09:57 +0200." <19990423020957.A2692@barberouge.linux.lmm.com> Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 11:08:09 -0300 From: Grant Taylor Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk >>>>> Guylhem Aznar writes: > A simple solution would be using ISO date in the sgml source, for > your script, and then using sgmltools or a little sed script to > rewrite the date. Ah, this brings up a fine point: the sensible thing, if (as I would like to see) we use CVS would be to have people put RCS $Date$ and $Revision$ strings in so that they are always right. The trick is, to process those well, you need to checkout a special $Tag:-less copy with co -kv foo.sgml (I think this is also where we'd specify the date format). All that is probably straightforward, since it's needed for every document. What will we do for documents with a mutant build process? My howto, for example, contains a section automagically generated from a database at build time. If we have an automated system, I'd prefer a periodic build that bumps the minor revision number and updates that section. Can we specify, at least, a minimum set of build software callable from a user-provided makefile? I think I can do it with just lynx plus the usual unix textutils and sgmltools. Proposal: How about cvs tree with a directory per howto, each with a Makefile based off a standard one where the installed copies depend on the source files, so that make install only does anything if there's something new. Then a two-line script can just run make install in every document directory each night. Make install failures can get mailed to the coordinator and the author of record. Advantages of this scheme: - Easy implementation: establish a cvs dir, a web page or two, a simple build script, and a sample Makefile. No cgi scripts or new stuff, just the straightforward use of existing software. - Flexibility: it handles the 90% case as well as my pathalogical case and ought to handle other pathalogical cases. - Stability: only the coordinators really need logins on the server box; this will eliminate breakage from random authors mucking things up. (Arguably file permissions would do the same, but...) - Version control: we could theoretically build all howtos as of a specified date, if that were useful. We can also preserve all the version history in existing rcs howtos. Now then. There must be flaws in this proposal. Please point them out! > This would be fantastic, but which identification system should we use ? > What about a simple login+passwd ? That's what CVS uses, although you can run it over ssh, which provides a layer of decent authentication. > I think each author could ftp its own HOWTO, then a cron would search ~/ > for .sgml files, convert them, put them on line and on the main site. I'd like the process to be either a "make install" or "cvs commit" for the author. Right now my cvs commit goes off and does a make install, which includes mailing it to Tim and my translators. Can an ftp *upload* be scripted? -- Grant Taylor - gtaylor@picante.com - http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/ Cellphone information: http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/cell/ Libretto information: http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/portable/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id NAA07704 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 13:03:17 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id NAA02729 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 13:03:07 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id KAA13750 for ldp-l-list; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 10:45:11 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from cupido.cs.hut.fi (mail@lusikka.in.helsinki.fi [128.214.182.91]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id KAA13746 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 10:45:04 +0800 Received: from liw by cupido.cs.hut.fi with local (Exim 2.11 #1 (Debian)) for ldp-l@linux.org.au id 10asRN-000184-00; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 05:45:13 +0300 Date: sat, 24 may 1999 02:45:13 GMT Message-ID: From: Lars Wirzenius To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Cc: Subject: My submission stuff MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-md5"; boundary="130.233.193.44.9849.3346.924921913.342.10073"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk This is a MIME message. --130.233.193.44.9849.3346.924921913.342.10073 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My submission handling script is at = =09http://www.iki.fi/liw/ldp/ You need Python 1.5.1 and my slimelib Python package from =09http://www.iki.fi/liw/Slime/ I didn't have time to test this. I'll be communicating with Tim on this ove= r the weekend, we'll have something to report on Monday. However, anyone interested in hacking on this should feel free to get started at once. Note, however, that I haven't decided whether CVS would be better = than this. It probably would be. --130.233.193.44.9849.3346.924921913.342.10073 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.6.3ia iQCVAwUBNyEwOIQRll5MupLRAQF9fAQAquhDibiUd6lHh+i9nTu1jTalt7n7sMc4 lWzYkV81R3bRqqYwCfvBE386EIJKR7DrgMTrPE2b0lGaJGfSgum1nU5eo0pCthoD EBZ0g1aA+EWU7QfHNKQRY/l+6G3SGe11RAssWANhMtOqnBprMC0M8GHmBsCDZl+K Q/qHo+vGaYE= =yWdW -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --130.233.193.44.9849.3346.924921913.342.10073-- This was a MIME message. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA10853 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 00:34:28 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA04020 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 00:34:26 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id WAA19360 for ldp-l-list; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 22:24:46 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from cupido.cs.hut.fi (mail@tuuba.in.helsinki.fi [128.214.182.77]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id WAA19355 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 22:24:39 +0800 Received: from liw by cupido.cs.hut.fi with local (Exim 2.11 #1 (Debian)) for ldp-l@linux.org.au id 10b3Je-0001LE-00; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 17:21:58 +0300 Date: sat, 24 may 1999 14:21:58 GMT Message-ID: From: Lars Wirzenius To: Subject: Re: HOWTO latency In-Reply-To: <19990423200418.A1109@barberouge.linux.lmm.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-md5"; boundary="130.233.193.44.9849.5109.924963718.103.5040"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk This is a MIME message. --130.233.193.44.9849.5109.924963718.103.5040 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Guylhem Aznar : > There's always an human needed somewhere, nothing can become 100% automat= ic. The only human who needs to routinely be involved with handling an upload of an update to an exiting howto is the author. There does need to be people whose task is to make sure the upload automation works and fix any problems, and to handle new documents, but they do not need to even notice individual updates. -- Stupid little mailer under construction, sorry for any problems. --130.233.193.44.9849.5109.924963718.103.5040 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.6.3ia iQCVAwUBNyHThYQRll5MupLRAQFPFAQAowAkVf7dLR4Itt9uVb5X8bwVSJNpD32O QPVd/Od+HewnQ60HYrocDyhCBb41C1STDzB7RIh4RIJjj/x98vryMYr9lo0e1kOk AXEARSRVR1nWB35Kfi0fvYrS1kRr8cIVy3JZj9Z5d+HgGL2Qi6UkJni8f8pQytBK 3EcrhuGUh/o= =zYZu -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --130.233.193.44.9849.5109.924963718.103.5040-- This was a MIME message. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA10861 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 00:35:06 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA04031 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 00:35:03 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id WAA19365 for ldp-l-list; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 22:24:54 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from cupido.cs.hut.fi (mail@tuuba.in.helsinki.fi [128.214.182.77]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id WAA19361 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 22:24:49 +0800 Received: from liw by cupido.cs.hut.fi with local (Exim 2.11 #1 (Debian)) for ldp-l@linux.org.au id 10b3EV-0001L6-00; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 17:16:39 +0300 Date: sat, 24 may 1999 14:16:39 GMT Message-ID: From: Lars Wirzenius To: Subject: Re: your mail In-Reply-To: <19990423020957.A2692@barberouge.linux.lmm.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-md5"; boundary="130.233.193.44.9849.5109.924963399.739.28609"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk This is a MIME message. --130.233.193.44.9849.5109.924963399.739.28609 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Guylhem Aznar : > Will we take ISO or usual format ? I think we can leave that to whoever implements the upload mechanism. "He who does, decides" as we say in the free software community. :) (As long as the format is unambiguous and can be parsed automatically, it doesn't matter much.) > This would be fantastic, but which identification system should we use ? > What about a simple login+passwd ? If we use CVS, then CVS will use login usernames and passwords (or it might be possible to have separate CVS-only accounts, I don't know). If we use a mail front-end, then PGP signatures or something similar. It also depends on how the people who donate upload queue hosting for us want to do this. > I think each author could ftp its own HOWTO, then a cron would search ~/ > for .sgml files, convert them, put them on line and on the main site. Tha could also be a possibility. -- Stupid little mailer under construction, sorry for any problems. --130.233.193.44.9849.5109.924963399.739.28609 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.6.3ia iQCVAwUBNyHSR4QRll5MupLRAQHpeQP/cNjQMVpiE4f3+2izOEEmL59zH0ZGWZ8p nxXHV3I20G26VWqEppyUUhiikewl8z4Ls+0L1wndSf8fWXv7BFRpHdg2Ld3oEeqY UQtn/Gv8jklIvZavDz9inNt4wnwVfXkSFrzBKWk33/0Ot40v0sBDJjWL5NkQi+qv NYGc1RG/6a8= =rpSx -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --130.233.193.44.9849.5109.924963399.739.28609-- This was a MIME message. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id NAA24064 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 13:37:42 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id NAA08561 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 13:37:34 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id LAA00881 for ldp-l-list; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 11:29:35 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from pace.picante.com (IDENT:root@pace.picante.com [199.103.241.49]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id LAA00877 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 11:29:26 +0800 Received: from pace.picante.com (gtaylor@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pace.picante.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA23994 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 23:29:15 -0400 Message-Id: <199904250329.XAA23994@pace.picante.com> To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: your mail In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 24 Apr 1999 18:58:03 PDT." <199904250158.AA17209@lafn.org> Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 23:29:13 -0300 From: Grant Taylor Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk > I don't have FTP so I would need to use email to submit HOWTOs. A CVS checkin-o-matic mailbot would be easy enough to implement; Lars' work could be turned into one fairly simply, I expect. > Also, to encourage people to write and submit HOWTOs the author's > task needs to be kept as simple as possible. That's why I have > qualms about going to doc-book. The advantage of a Makefile system is that the rules can differ for different documents: we could have some linuxdoc documents, some docbook documents, some debiandoc documents (the Debian documentation project has it's own DTD), or even stuff like LaTeX or roff. A pure automailer would need different code for each type of document, which would need coordinator cooperation for any minor change in an author's build process... OTOH, there's some downside to using too large a variety of formats; it'd be hard to set up a consistent LDP style if we had to implement it as DSSSL, in linuxdoc/sgmltools-1, as a LaTeX style, etc. My opinion is that this is a low priority issue; our gobs of documentation vary far more in quality than in appearance, and the information quality matters far more. > Also, it was suggested that authors supply makefiles, but some may > not know how to create such a file. Thus I think we should stay > with the present linuxdoc sgml and not use makefiles (unless it's > only an option). In the case of a plain linuxdoc HOWTO, like 98% of them are, a standard Makefile can be used. Below is the one I use now, minus the mutant embedded database bits; anyone could set up a mail-only person's makefile from this very easily. > Also the limitations of converting docbook to plain text need to be > fixed before seriously considering going to docbook. Quite. Docbook makes better paper or html output, but there's a lot to be said for ascii, and we really need that. # Generic makefile for use with linuxdoc-sgml # The basename of your sgml file NAME=pht INSTALLDIR=/home/gtaylor/public_html/pht/current LDP=linux-howto@sunsite.unc.edu # default target for `make', a combination of ps, html, txt, or dvi # all: ps html txt dvi everything: co ps dvi html txt ################################################## # # Targets: # # ps, txt, html, dvi, and ascii all do what they ought # bugs runs format into /dev/null to show errors in your sgml # clean removes all output of above, including log files. # ################################################## # # You shouldn't need to change anything below here # ################################################## # # shortcut targets # # note $-stripping rcs checkout option; this is not a working file! # cd line is picante.com-specific... co: (cd .. ; cvs co -kv pht/pht.sgml) html: $(NAME).html ps: $(NAME).ps dvi: $(NAME).dvi txt: $(NAME).txt ascii: $(NAME).txt clean: rm -f $(NAME).ps *.html $(NAME).txt *~ *.log *.dvi \ $(NAME).aux $(NAME).tex $(NAME).toc $(NAME).ps: $(NAME).sgml sgml2latex -o ps $(NAME) $(NAME).dvi: $(NAME).sgml sgml2latex -o dvi $(NAME) $(NAME).txt: $(NAME).sgml sgml2txt -f $(NAME) $(NAME).html: $(NAME).sgml sgml2html $(NAME) install: everything rm -f $(INSTALLDIR)/$(NAME).sgml cp $(NAME).sgml *.html $(NAME).dvi $(NAME).ps *.txt printers.sgml\ $(INSTALLDIR) /bin/mail -s "New version of the Printing-HOWTO" $(LDP) < \ $(INSTALLDIR)/$(NAME).sgml -- Grant Taylor - gtaylor@picante.com - http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/ Cellphone information: http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/cell/ Libretto information: http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/portable/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA28200 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 04:49:41 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA10211 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 04:49:38 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id CAA14259 for ldp-l-list; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 02:36:23 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from cupido.cs.hut.fi (mail@kumistin.in.helsinki.fi [128.214.182.101]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA14255 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 02:35:16 +0800 Received: from liw by cupido.cs.hut.fi with local (Exim 2.11 #1 (Debian)) for ldp-l@linux.org.au id 10bTja-0006Hz-00; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 21:34:30 +0300 Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 18:34:29 GMT Message-ID: From: Lars Wirzenius To: Subject: Re: your mail In-Reply-To: <199904231508.LAA20188@pace.picante.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-md5"; boundary="130.233.193.44.9849.22259.925065269.401.24984"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk This is a MIME message. --130.233.193.44.9849.22259.925065269.401.24984 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Grant Taylor : > How about cvs tree with a directory per howto, each with a Makefile > based off a standard one where the installed copies depend on the > source files, so that make install only does anything if there's > something new. Then a two-line script can just run make install in > every document directory each night. Make install failures can get > mailed to the coordinator and the author of record. This can be simplified: Most howtos are and will continue to be a single SGML file that is processed with exactly the same commands and options as all other such simple ones. Thus, collect them into a single directory, and only require complicated ones to be in their own directories with their own makefiles. This took me about ten minutes to implement. :-) (I haven't been able to talk to Tim, because I've been mostly unable to sit in front of the computer. :-( ) -- Stupid little mailer under construction, sorry for any problems. --130.233.193.44.9849.22259.925065269.401.24984 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.6.3ia iQCVAwUBNyNgNIQRll5MupLRAQHGvwP7BNx3YywL08YoY3q5RNqk4ZKAeDVdKCtD K0+6El/9M9Larw7N5Z3ncUKst5eaeUdN1ZhTTwVzRIGtmvFyXENkSIBxTVYjP5/L CkbYkcDDmYM9bqm2n99v+hoUhWys1ysZX8DHkEK41OC+p7r36QQUf1Rx84QR0qnl sZSL5qFdiqw= =yqh6 -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --130.233.193.44.9849.22259.925065269.401.24984-- This was a MIME message. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA28212 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 04:51:07 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA10228 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 04:51:03 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id CAA14280 for ldp-l-list; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 02:40:40 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from cupido.cs.hut.fi (mail@kumistin.in.helsinki.fi [128.214.182.101]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA14274 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 02:40:02 +0800 Received: from liw by cupido.cs.hut.fi with local (Exim 2.11 #1 (Debian)) for ldp-l@linux.org.au id 10bToA-0006IE-00; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 21:39:14 +0300 Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 18:39:13 GMT Message-ID: From: Lars Wirzenius To: Subject: Re: your mail In-Reply-To: <199904250158.AA17209@lafn.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-md5"; boundary="130.233.193.44.9849.22259.925065553.759.19115"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk This is a MIME message. --130.233.193.44.9849.22259.925065553.759.19115 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer): > I don't have FTP so I would need to use email to submit HOWTOs. = Do you have TCP/IP connectivity for ssh? This would be needed for CVS use. If not, we'll implement an e-mail gateway one way or another. Small matter of programming. > Also, to > encourage people to write and submit HOWTOs the author's task needs to be > kept as simple as possible. That's why I have qualms about going to > doc-book. Tough. To work with the LDP, they have to learn at least one markup language and docbook is the only viable longterm solution. -- Stupid little mailer under construction, sorry for any problems. --130.233.193.44.9849.22259.925065553.759.19115 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.6.3ia iQCVAwUBNyNhUYQRll5MupLRAQHNuAP/e9qHYi4q6S3gTAJzhy3J1ivtp1BBOveo CLeqO0+RjzeMpH/kgs0/yvgieQfKKJExBVah9BGrDwr4Vnt0FUlhgrjSc/+Q2SSv 6wQWpwdohYEjYrJQHn0yWXqIUbuPWtao2RmG1xmj91DjLlhKLTJ4W89vuTJ46PEW FDmexqEoHAk= =nejs -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --130.233.193.44.9849.22259.925065553.759.19115-- This was a MIME message. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 06:46:53 +0000 (/etc/localtime) From: terry@albert Subject: Re: your mail To: ldp-l@linux.org.au In-Reply-To: <199904250158.AA17209@lafn.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII On 24 Apr, David Lawyer wrote: > Also, to > encourage people to write and submit HOWTOs the author's task needs to be > kept as simple as possible. That's why I have qualms about going to > doc-book. Also, it was suggested that authors supply makefiles, but some > may not know how to create such a file. Thus I think we should stay with > the present linuxdoc sgml and not use makefiles (unless it's only an > option). Also the limitations of converting docbook to plain text need to > be fixed before seriously considering going to docbook. I've got to agree with Lars on this point David. DocBook is a technical publishing industry standard, it is a sensible and logical choice for us as it makes our manuscripts attractive to publishers and there is a growing volume of tool support for it. These surely are important things to us. >From the authors perspective, I think you'll find it no more difficult to use than LinuxDoc, so long as we have some sensible templates and example from which new authors can model their own. Taken in another direction, DocBook is less frustrating than LinuxDoc because it actually has support for the features you're looking for. Who reads plain-text any more? HTML, dvi, postscript, pdf and possibly rtf. Who out there would seriously use plaintext in preference to any of those ? Terry -- terry@albert.aapra.org.au, terry@linux.org.au From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 06:49:12 +0000 (/etc/localtime) From: terry@albert Subject: Re: Submitting HOWTOs To: ldp-l@linux.org.au In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII On 23 May, Lars Wirzenius wrote: > Well, I don't really care who does it, as long as it gets done. The first > one to do it gets my vote. Do we know what needs to done? I'm seeing talk of CVS. If someone can tell me what the requirements are I'll make them happen. Terry -- terry@albert.aapra.org.au, terry@linux.org.au From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:43 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id QAA31660 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 16:28:20 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id QAA11233 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 16:28:15 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id OAA18187 for ldp-l-list; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:09:41 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from burdell.cc.gatech.edu (root@burdell.cc.gatech.edu [130.207.3.207]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id OAA18183 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:09:36 +0800 Received: from forge.cc.gatech.edu (gregh@forge.cc.gatech.edu [130.207.9.19]) by burdell.cc.gatech.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA06891 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 02:09:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from gregh@localhost) by forge.cc.gatech.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id CAA00528 for ldp-l@linux.org.au; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 02:09:25 -0400 (EDT) From: gregh@cc.gatech.edu (Greg Hankins) Message-Id: <199904260609.CAA00528@forge.cc.gatech.edu> Subject: Re: HOWTO uploads To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 02:09:25 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: from "Andries.Brouwer@cwi.nl" at Apr 21, 99 10:50:13 pm X-PGP-fingerprint: 41 33 31 72 76 3F 42 DA AF E6 04 6D 36 79 6F EA X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Andries.Brouwer@cwi.nl writes: >Interestingly, I do not see Greg and Tim participate in this discussion. I just maintain the web pages, and I drop in LDP Guide updates (which happens about 2 times a year). Whenever we have the web space at www.linuxdoc.org setup, I'll be glad to move the pages over and work on making that the primary site. Regards, Greg -- Greg Hankins | Linux Documentation Project MS CS - Georgia Tech, College of Computing | Homepage and Linux Information http://www.cc.gatech.edu/staff/h/Greg.Hankins/ | http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id QAA31836 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 16:54:51 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id QAA11254 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 16:54:47 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id OAA18469 for ldp-l-list; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:47:10 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from albert.aapra.org.au (root@albert.aapra.org.au [203.41.101.122]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id OAA18465 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:47:05 +0800 From: terry@albert.aapra.org.au Received: from albert.aapra.org.au (terry@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id QAA31767 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 16:46:57 +1000 Message-Id: <199904260646.QAA31767@albert.aapra.org.au> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 06:46:53 +0000 (/etc/localtime) Subject: Re: your mail To: ldp-l@linux.org.au In-Reply-To: <199904250158.AA17209@lafn.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On 24 Apr, David Lawyer wrote: > Also, to > encourage people to write and submit HOWTOs the author's task needs to be > kept as simple as possible. That's why I have qualms about going to > doc-book. Also, it was suggested that authors supply makefiles, but some > may not know how to create such a file. Thus I think we should stay with > the present linuxdoc sgml and not use makefiles (unless it's only an > option). Also the limitations of converting docbook to plain text need to > be fixed before seriously considering going to docbook. I've got to agree with Lars on this point David. DocBook is a technical publishing industry standard, it is a sensible and logical choice for us as it makes our manuscripts attractive to publishers and there is a growing volume of tool support for it. These surely are important things to us. >From the authors perspective, I think you'll find it no more difficult to use than LinuxDoc, so long as we have some sensible templates and example from which new authors can model their own. Taken in another direction, DocBook is less frustrating than LinuxDoc because it actually has support for the features you're looking for. Who reads plain-text any more? HTML, dvi, postscript, pdf and possibly rtf. Who out there would seriously use plaintext in preference to any of those ? Terry -- terry@albert.aapra.org.au, terry@linux.org.au From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id QAA31862 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 16:59:16 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id QAA11266 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 16:59:12 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id OAA18523 for ldp-l-list; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:49:24 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from albert.aapra.org.au (root@albert.aapra.org.au [203.41.101.122]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id OAA18518 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:49:20 +0800 From: terry@albert.aapra.org.au Received: from albert.aapra.org.au (terry@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id QAA31797 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 16:49:15 +1000 Message-Id: <199904260649.QAA31797@albert.aapra.org.au> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 06:49:12 +0000 (/etc/localtime) Subject: Re: Submitting HOWTOs To: ldp-l@linux.org.au In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On 23 May, Lars Wirzenius wrote: > Well, I don't really care who does it, as long as it gets done. The first > one to do it gets my vote. Do we know what needs to done? I'm seeing talk of CVS. If someone can tell me what the requirements are I'll make them happen. Terry -- terry@albert.aapra.org.au, terry@linux.org.au From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id XAA01153 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 23:20:45 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id XAA12293 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 23:20:42 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id VAA22377 for ldp-l-list; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 21:02:57 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from nigel.redhat.com (IDENT:root@adsl-77-240-160.rdu.bellsouth.net [216.77.240.160]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id VAA22372 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 21:02:51 +0800 Received: from nigel.redhat.com (johnsonm@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nigel.redhat.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA03525 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 09:02:41 -0400 Message-Id: <199904261302.JAA03525@nigel.redhat.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 To: ldp-l@linux.org.au From: "Michael K. Johnson" Subject: Re: your mail In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 26 Apr 1999 06:46:53 -0000." <199904260646.QAA31767@albert.aapra.org.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 09:02:41 -0400 Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk terry@albert.aapra.org.au writes: >Who reads plain-text any more? > >HTML, dvi, postscript, pdf and possibly rtf. Who out there >would seriously use plaintext in preference to any of those ? Plain text is easy to read from the console, and is trivial to search through. HTML isn't trivial to search through because documents generally extend over several pages, though it is at least readable with lynx. That said, I agree with the move to docbook. I'm sure that it's as possible to create good-enough text output with docbook as it was with linuxdoc. michaelkjohnson "Ever wonder why the SAME PEOPLE make up ALL the conspiracy theories?" From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA01597 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 00:58:53 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA12341 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 00:58:48 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id WAA23418 for ldp-l-list; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:45:31 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from pace.picante.com (IDENT:root@pace.picante.com [199.103.241.49]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id WAA23414 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:45:25 +0800 Received: from pace.picante.com (gtaylor@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pace.picante.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA13839 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 10:45:09 -0400 Message-Id: <199904261445.KAA13839@pace.picante.com> To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: the cvs setup Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 10:45:08 -0300 From: Grant Taylor Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk [ Oops, I sent this at Lars instead of the list. Doh! ] >>>>> Lars Wirzenius writes: > This can be simplified: Most howtos are and will continue to be a > single SGML file that is processed with exactly the same commands > and options as all other such simple ones. Thus, collect them into a > single directory, and only require complicated ones to be in their > own directories with their own makefiles. > This took me about ten minutes to implement. :-) Excellent! We'll need to be careful to point out to people how to checkout specific files one at a time; the usual cvs checkout of a project would snarf the whole set of howtos in this case. What's the plan for the howto-index and various web pages? I think it would be nice to have them produced automagically as part of the build process. Aside from the version/date and title, which can be extracted from rcs and the filename, respectively, the index needs to know author name and address for each document. The two simplest things I can think of would be either: - Magical tags in the document (structured comments, say). - A little metafile for each document. Something trivial, like: Author: Grant Taylor Addr: gtaylor+pht@picante.com I'd go with structured comments but for the fact that there there will be multiple document languages. Conversely, I'd vote against keeping this extra info in, say, a web-based database; everything should be in one place. Given a little metafile in cvs, we authors could even put postal/telco contact info in there for coordinator use. Can you write a up a quick summary of there wheres and hows of your protoype? What software is on the protoype machine? I think my build process will want perl and lynx plus the usual tools. -- Grant Taylor - gtaylor@picante.com - http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/ Cellphone information: http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/cell/ Libretto information: http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/portable/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA01748 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 01:29:39 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA12362 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 01:29:36 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id XAA23587 for ldp-l-list; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 23:16:44 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from sizif.mf.uni-lj.si (sizif.mf.uni-lj.si [193.2.69.15]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id XAA23583 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 23:16:39 +0800 Received: from localhost (peterlin@localhost) by sizif.mf.uni-lj.si with ESMTP (8.7.6/8.7.3) id RAA08087 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 17:16:34 +0200 (METDST) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 17:16:34 +0200 (METDST) From: Primoz Peterlin X-Sender: peterlin@sizif.mf.uni-lj.si To: Linux Documentation Project Subject: A Quick DocBook Example? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On Fri, 23 Apr 1999 Andries.Brouwer@cwi.nl wrote: > Concerning the move to DocBook, we need > (i) a stable set of tools > (ii) examples of some HOWTOs with DocBook markup. Over five years ago, Matt Welsh put together a ``Quick SGML Example''. Which didn't even cover all the features Linuxdoc DTD posessed, few as they were, but which IMHO provided a not too frightening introduction to people who were completely new to SGML. Could we have something similar for DocBook DTD? I am well aware if the Mark Galassi's introductory paper and the DocBook Reference Documentation , but I believe there is a need for something *simpler*. > (iii) a conversion script that will handle 98% of the conversion > Linuxdoc -> DocBook automatically, and a README discussing what > handwork if any will remain to be done. To date, I have not been able to get the darn thing working for me. Best regards, Primoz -- Primo¾ Peterlin email: primoz.peterlin@biofiz.mf.uni-lj.si In¹titut za biofiziko MF, Lipièeva 2, SI-1000 Ljubljana, Slovenija Fax: +386-61-1315127 WWW: http://sizif.mf.uni-lj.si/~peterlin/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA02068 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 02:34:55 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA12681 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 02:34:53 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id AAA24028 for ldp-l-list; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 00:23:26 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from pace.picante.com (IDENT:root@pace.picante.com [199.103.241.49]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA24024 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 00:23:20 +0800 Received: from pace.picante.com (gtaylor@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pace.picante.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA17853 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:23:14 -0400 Message-Id: <199904261623.MAA17853@pace.picante.com> To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: A Quick DocBook Example? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 26 Apr 1999 17:16:34 +0200." Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:23:13 -0300 From: Grant Taylor Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk >>>>> Primoz Peterlin writes: > Over five years ago, Matt Welsh put together a ``Quick SGML Example''. Is there not one in sgmltools somewhere? One good thing to look at would be the Gnome userguide; it's in DocBook. There's a tarball at the gnome website. > To date, I have not been able to get the darn thing working for me. In sgmltools-2? The problem may be what I had: some sort of conflict between the "modern" docbook library files and the ld2db and linuxdoc library files. Modifying the sgml library search path in the /etc/sgml/catalog just for the conversion is what I do: From: -- AUTOMATICALLY GENERATED, DO NOT EDIT -- CATALOG "/loc/publish/sgmltools-2/share/sgml/entities/iso-entities-8879.1986/iso-entities.cat" CATALOG "/loc/publish/sgmltools-2/share/sgml/dtd/sgmltools/catalog" CATALOG "/loc/publish/sgmltools-2/share/sgml/dtd/docbook/docbook.cat" CATALOG "/loc/publish/sgmltools-2/share/sgml/stylesheets/docbook/catalog" CATALOG "/loc/publish/sgmltools-2/share/sgml/dtd/jade/dsssl.cat" CATALOG "/loc/publish/sgmltools-2/share/sgml/dtd/sgmltools/catalog" CATALOG "/loc/publish/sgmltools-2/share/sgml/stylesheets/sgmltools/sgmltools.cat" To: -- AUTOMATICALLY GENERATED, DO NOT EDIT -- CATALOG "/loc/publish/sgmltools-2/share/sgml/entities/iso-entities-8879.1986/iso-entities.cat" CATALOG "/loc/publish/sgmltools-2/share/sgml/stylesheets/sgmltools/sgmltools.cat" CATALOG "/loc/publish/sgmltools-2/share/sgml/dtd/sgmltools/catalog" CATALOG "/loc/publish/sgmltools-2/share/sgml/dtd/jade/dsssl.cat" I also run jade directly with the conversion style, instead of using the sgmltools convert command: jade -d ld2db.dsl -t sgml input.sgml |sgmlnorm -d -E 9999999 > output.sgml You can find the ld2db.dsl file buried in the sgmltools-2 tree somewhere. -- Grant Taylor - gtaylor@picante.com - http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/ Cellphone information: http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/cell/ Libretto information: http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/portable/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id VAA14045 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 21:27:39 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id VAA16442 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 21:27:35 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id TAA22607 for ldp-l-list; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 19:00:40 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from cupido.cs.hut.fi (mail@haitari.in.helsinki.fi [128.214.182.89]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id TAA22603 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 19:00:34 +0800 Received: from liw by cupido.cs.hut.fi with local (Exim 2.11 #1 (Debian)) for ldp-l@linux.org.au id 10cS4b-00018Q-00; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 14:00:13 +0300 Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 11:00:13 GMT Message-ID: From: Lars Wirzenius To: Subject: Re: Submitting HOWTOs In-Reply-To: <199904260649.QAA31797@albert.aapra.org.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-md5"; boundary="130.233.193.44.9849.331.925297213.742.27825"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk This is a MIME message. --130.233.193.44.9849.331.925297213.742.27825 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable terry@albert.aapra.org.au: > Do we know what needs to done? > I'm seeing talk of CVS. > = > If someone can tell me what the requirements are I'll > make them happen. At the moment I think the following are needed: =09- CVS server, where lots of people (potentially all LDP authors) can =09commit changes, and which preferably allows anonymous use as well =09(i.e., read-only access) =09- at least a few login accounts, for people who will write and maintain =09mail-to-cvs gateways, and an automation that will copy our works from =09CVS to a web accessible location (i.e., the new upload system) =09- WWW and FTP space, so that released versions of our works can =09be distributed. This would be the new master LDP site, from which other =09sites would mirror (at least metalab; others could continue to mirror fr= om =09there). Possibly other things. I'm having some trouble concentrating, someone pleas= e fill in if I forgot something. BTW, I assume it would make sense to keep the LDP homepages under CVS as well. Comments? (From Greg, especially.) -- Stupid little mailer under construction, sorry for any problems. --130.233.193.44.9849.331.925297213.742.27825 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.6.3ia iQCVAwUBNybqPYQRll5MupLRAQGToQQA1STmWngIARKPalXY5BSq76VGVWEKcM4w e5TdZ1aXm67SY5WnRpoQ/zfJ4EN8gMt5gWkUCyzhPAx7nPMfDpKFsIJke+Mzl411 lyOE3mmTt7a6eBkBvQgY886gyHbBOY0JF1eZoTJBkIljpc2hqkYN306uP3dQtzkA l44SJUMImOs= =Y0xi -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --130.233.193.44.9849.331.925297213.742.27825-- This was a MIME message. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id VAA14111 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 21:39:08 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id VAA16454 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 21:39:04 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id TAA22732 for ldp-l-list; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 19:20:17 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from cupido.cs.hut.fi (mail@haitari.in.helsinki.fi [128.214.182.89]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id TAA22712 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 19:20:11 +0800 Received: from liw by cupido.cs.hut.fi with local (Exim 2.11 #1 (Debian)) for ldp-l@linux.org.au id 10cSNi-0001AB-00; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 14:19:58 +0300 Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 11:19:58 GMT Message-ID: From: Lars Wirzenius To: Subject: the cvs setup In-Reply-To: <199904261445.KAA13839@pace.picante.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-md5"; boundary="130.233.193.44.9849.331.925298398.137.21057"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk This is a MIME message. --130.233.193.44.9849.331.925298398.137.21057 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Grant Taylor : > We'll need to be careful to point out to people how to checkout > specific files one at a time; the usual cvs checkout of a project > would snarf the whole set of howtos in this case. True, but doable. > What's the plan for the howto-index and various web pages? I think it > would be nice to have them produced automagically as part of the build > process. Exactly. As automatic as possible. > Aside from the version/date and title, which can be extracted from rcs > and the filename, respectively, the index needs to know author name > and address for each document. When we go to DocBook, these should come from the document (not the filename!). DocBook has tags for this; from the beginning of the sysadmin guide: $Date: 1999/03/24 22:24:59 $ The Linux System Administrators' Guide Version 0.6.1 =09Lars =09Wirzenius =09 =09=09
=09=09liw@iki.fi =09=09
=09
I only give my e-mail address, but DocBook does provide for a much more detailed specification. It's a small amount of programming to extract the information, but it's doable. It's better to keep the information inside the document, since then It's more likely to be kept up to date. > I'd go with structured comments but for the fact that there there will > be multiple document languages. Each translation will add the names of the translators (and they will be responsible for keeping track of the original author infirmation if and when it changes in the original document -- just as for all other changes in the original document). > Can you write a up a quick summary of there wheres and hows of your > protoype? Will do asap, but it might take a couple of days, depending on my back. > What software is on the protoype machine? I think my build process > will want perl and lynx plus the usual tools. I run Debian, with Debian's packaging of docbook and jade and associated tools. We'll have to support other systems as well, of course; more minor amounts of programming. -- Stupid little mailer under construction, sorry for any problems. --130.233.193.44.9849.331.925298398.137.21057 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.6.3ia iQCVAwUBNybu3YQRll5MupLRAQFnmAP+OKGEYUcfd//cY+q3BSGoD22wrCSw31md RrzL3ziGBXMHM/vVXw4rMZPiPD/PvhrTnaWhtBjFQ7Z8WElYwWktt4km3pqwlL2S ggOvbTEqIwRRRQ0QRxQz+biePaj1CqCtRjYojUwxhUTlDWsFJaaf+E+xKdKKj7p/ xRnLHMbU4FA= =iCbF -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --130.233.193.44.9849.331.925298398.137.21057-- This was a MIME message. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id XAA14828 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 23:18:12 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id XAA17373 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 23:18:09 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id UAA23922 for ldp-l-list; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 20:58:54 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from cupido.cs.hut.fi (mail@xylofoni.in.helsinki.fi [128.214.182.104]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id UAA23918 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 20:58:48 +0800 Received: from liw by cupido.cs.hut.fi with local (Exim 2.11 #1 (Debian)) for ldp-l@linux.org.au id 10cTv7-0001El-00; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 15:58:33 +0300 Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 12:58:33 GMT Message-ID: From: Lars Wirzenius To: Linux Documentation Project Subject: A Quick DocBook Example? In-Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-md5"; boundary="130.233.193.44.9849.331.925304313.322.14327"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk This is a MIME message. --130.233.193.44.9849.331.925304313.322.14327 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Primoz Peterlin : > Over five years ago, Matt Welsh put together a ``Quick SGML Example''. = > Which didn't even cover all the features Linuxdoc DTD posessed, few as > they were, but which IMHO provided a not too frightening introduction to > people who were completely new to SGML. Could we have something similar > for DocBook DTD? A quick attempt: http://www.iki.fi/liw/ldp/sample/ (Warning: it is not good enough to be an example of good style. The resident DocBook experts should feel free to improve it.) -- Stupid little mailer under construction, sorry for any problems. --130.233.193.44.9849.331.925304313.322.14327 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.6.3ia iQCVAwUBNycF+IQRll5MupLRAQGEZQP/eHU8vL6K0NLrguNKXyokim7xoAoZyJ64 wpBG1MWSICi87cbt5ZBg66oxyKQJRJgUf9zSxYPNQJBmeyMmKyWP7rmde0K7v4+F sfxF27RP3FPTJZYQgR9TRYuDmiM0KeJOXq1FUh4ePBPdZn7FwW7fUKxaR0afkXMB aP381bglM3s= =AtQz -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --130.233.193.44.9849.331.925304313.322.14327-- This was a MIME message. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA15333 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 00:54:37 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA17449 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 00:54:33 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id WAA24818 for ldp-l-list; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 22:36:27 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from pace.picante.com (IDENT:root@pace.picante.com [199.103.241.49]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id WAA24814 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 22:36:21 +0800 Received: from pace.picante.com (gtaylor@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pace.picante.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA31254 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:36:13 -0400 Message-Id: <199904281436.KAA31254@pace.picante.com> To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: the cvs setup In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 28 Apr 1999 11:19:58 GMT." Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:36:12 -0300 From: Grant Taylor Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk >>>>> Lars Wirzenius writes: >> Can you write a up a quick summary of there wheres and hows of your >> protoype? > Will do asap, but it might take a couple of days, depending on my back. Just don't kill yourself doing this; we've muddled along for years without automation, and we'll last a few more days... I'll be in Finland in May; remind me to buy you a beer or something ;) -- Grant Taylor - gtaylor@picante.com - http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/ Cellphone information: http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/cell/ Libretto information: http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/portable/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA22835 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 01:20:40 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA19972 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 01:20:36 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id XAA09423 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 23:06:03 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from mta4.iol.it (mta4.iol.it [195.210.91.154]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id XAA09419 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 23:05:59 +0800 Received: from etta.lilliput.linux.it ([195.210.74.157]) by mta4.iol.it (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA3BFA for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 17:05:49 +0200 Received: by etta.lilliput.linux.it id m10csNt-000159C (Debian Smail-3.2.0.101 1997-Dec-17 #2); Thu, 29 Apr 1999 17:05:53 +0200 (CEST) From: Marco Gaiarin Subject: Some questions... Date: 29 Apr 1999 11:32:40 GMT Organization: Il gaio usa sempre TIN per le liste, fallo anche tu!!! Message-ID: <7g9g0o$75p$10@etta.f1016.n333.z2.fidonet.org> X-Mailer: tin/pre-1.4-980618 (UNIX) (Linux/2.0.36 (i486)) To: ldp-l@linux.org.au X-Gateway-System: SmartGate 0.8 Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Here in Italy we are start working on a ``HOWTO book'' in Italian, like RH one but with translated HOWTOs (founded in http://www.pluto.linux.it/ildp). We are looking for scripts, stiles and other tools (and tips! ;) to quickly make a book from a set of SGML file. There's something like that out there?! Someone can aid we in learning this process?! Contact Giovanni Bortolozzo (borto@dei.unipd.it), the Italian LDP HOWTO coordinator, please. Now some other questions, because... i'm get lost! ;) 1) where are the ``official'' http and ftp LDP repository?! 2) to whom new or updated HOWTOs have to be sended?! :-) -- *STOP* ai bombardamenti NATO! *STOP* the bomb now! http://www.peacelink.it From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id WAA16301 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 22:18:03 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id WAA04622 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 22:17:43 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id TAA11589 for ldp-l-list; Tue, 4 May 1999 19:34:44 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from cupido.cs.hut.fi (mail@saha.in.helsinki.fi [128.214.182.67]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id TAA11585 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 19:34:39 +0800 Received: from liw by cupido.cs.hut.fi with local (Exim 2.11 #1 (Debian)) for ldp-l@linux.org.au id 10edJy-0005bH-00; Tue, 4 May 1999 14:25:06 +0300 Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 11:25:06 GMT Message-ID: From: Lars Wirzenius To: Subject: Re: LDP leadership; now what? In-Reply-To: <37285E7E.D57F0A66@online.no> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-md5"; boundary="130.233.193.44.9849.5396.925817105.924.14787"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk This is a MIME message. --130.233.193.44.9849.5396.925817105.924.14787 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Stein Gjoen : > Some time ago (=0915 March to be precise) I mailed to the list, > suggesting the Debian doc coordinator be added to the list. I > am in regular contact with him and he is interested in joining. > = > There were no objections...and nothing happened. So how about > it, why not join him on the list? He is > =09Marco Budde To subscribe to ldp-l, as far as I can remember, you need to send mail to majordomo@linux.org.au with the following line in the body: =09subscribe ldp-l Then the person who administers the list will add him to the list. (Is that Terry?) It would probably be a good idea for him to subscribe to the public LDP discussion list as well. It=A8's on the Debian mailing list subscriptio= n page; I'm sure he can find it. :) ("subscribe" in subject to ldp-discuss-request@lists.linuxdoc.org, if I recall correctly.) -- Stupid little mailer under construction, sorry for any problems. --130.233.193.44.9849.5396.925817105.924.14787 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.6.3ia iQCVAwUBNy7ZEYQRll5MupLRAQEDEwQAopzntYlaEB/dVBU8PScvGqhuQ3tIj8OP 58xLtb+/T9IFryoltExOreNw9eUDCExxQahJt/+ki5pLTNkzmD2JJtsjM4JmH7gC KY16Z/v5CqFc/Zl9Ctogzqy/hnLKYaoyCUGK0AGPtaNbwNQlKkVT8ZmC23pWuxfy Zr52sATQtHg= =Co3O -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --130.233.193.44.9849.5396.925817105.924.14787-- This was a MIME message. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA18113 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 04:40:32 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA05241 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 04:40:07 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id CAA15038 for ldp-l-list; Wed, 5 May 1999 02:26:43 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from sigtrap.guug.de (truemper@sigtrap.GUUG.DE [134.95.80.189]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA15033 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 02:26:30 +0800 Received: (from truemper@localhost) by sigtrap.guug.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA14216; Tue, 4 May 1999 20:26:06 +0200 Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 20:26:02 +0200 (CEST) From: Winfried Truemper X-Sender: winni@localhost To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: HOWTO uploads In-Reply-To: <372ECFE2.539886FC@online.no> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On Tue, 4 May 1999, Stein Gjoen wrote: > The uploading situation is now so silly it isn't even amusing. My HOWTO > is over a year old and I too get mail about the old, outdated version. As the human resources for the uploading process are currently very limited, my suggestion is to give a priority to each update. Negative LRU (last recently updated), which means that all recently updated HOWTOs can wait until the update of the "older" ones is done. And still my opinion is, that we should automate the update-process as far as possible. Instead of submitting the SGML-source via e-mail, we could take the reverse direction for those authors, who provide the SGML-source for downloading. In other words: (1a) We would have a list of HOWTOs and their "original sites" (the site where the author provides them for download). (1b) Those authors, who do not have an own homepage to provide the SGML-source for download can still submit it via email. (2) Once a week (or so) a script would go through the list and compare the local (metalab) timestamps with the timestamps on the original site. (3) Those files, which are newer than the local (metalab) copy are automatically fetched and converted. (4) The conversion process takes place in a chroot()ed environment ("sandbox"), so it's relatively safe to run it unattended. The advantage of downloading the files from the original sites is the ease of use. There is no need for an authentication scheme (password or such). On the other hand, the method is only as safe as the DNS... The chroot()ed environment is constructed as follows: (A) The necassary applications for the conversion process are determined. This can be done by asking "strace" for every conversion tool: strace -f -e execve,fork sgml2html... (B) The necassary data files for the conversion process are determined. Same as above, but with open,stat as system-calls. (C) A script is written to build a copy of the existing system, but only with the relevant files (as determined above). For example, all the files could be copied to /home/ldp and for the conversion process, a chroot("/home/ldp") would be made. It is required to have a script automated this task, because some day we must upgrade the system and the environment. (D) The same script would fix the permissions of the files to be read-only in the later environment. (E) The enviroment communicates with the rest of the system via two named pipes. The first pipe is to trigger the conversion process and the second pipe is to inform the outside world about the sucess. Example: wget CD-Writing.sgml echo "CD-Writing.sgml" > /home/ldp/trigger read HOWTO < /trigger cd /tmp; mkdir "$HOWTO"; cd "$HOWTO" sgml2html "$HOWTO" echo "$?" > /status read STATUS < /home/ldp/status I can offer assistance in setting up such a thing, but I surely can't maintain another software project (free or not...). Regards -Winfried (still not approved on this list; please Cc to me) From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id FAA18245 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 05:07:13 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id FAA05273 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 05:06:48 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id CAA21818 for ldp-l-list; Wed, 5 May 1999 02:52:55 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from pace.picante.com (IDENT:root@pace.picante.com [199.103.241.49]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA20861 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 02:52:42 +0800 Received: from pace.picante.com (gtaylor@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pace.picante.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA12074; Tue, 4 May 1999 14:52:32 -0400 Message-Id: <199905041852.OAA12074@pace.picante.com> To: ldp-l@linux.org.au cc: Winfried Truemper Subject: Re: HOWTO uploads In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 04 May 1999 20:26:02 +0200." Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 14:52:30 -0300 From: Grant Taylor Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk >>>>> Winfried Truemper writes: > And still my opinion is, that we should automate the update-process > as far as possible. Lars has apparently setup a CVS-based automated environment; it's about half done, and he's not yet documented or populated it. But I'm putting my money on it; Lars has produced the most actual automation progress of anyone to date, with 1.5 prototypes to his credit. Let's establish an outer bound: if nothing is running by mid June, I'll set something up, even if I have to buy a machine to put it on. -- Grant Taylor - gtaylor@picante.com - http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/ Cellphone information: http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/cell/ Libretto information: http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/portable/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id IAA19442 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 08:25:32 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id IAA05658 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 08:25:06 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id GAA22646 for ldp-l-list; Wed, 5 May 1999 06:14:54 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from cupido.cs.hut.fi (mail@ud.in.helsinki.fi [128.214.182.65]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id GAA22641 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 06:14:46 +0800 Received: from liw by cupido.cs.hut.fi with local (Exim 2.11 #1 (Debian)) for ldp-l@linux.org.au id 10enRl-0005qp-00; Wed, 5 May 1999 01:13:49 +0300 Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 22:13:49 GMT Message-ID: From: Lars Wirzenius To: Subject: CVS server, please In-Reply-To: <199905041852.OAA12074@pace.picante.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-md5"; boundary="130.233.193.44.9849.22406.925856028.813.1963"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk This is a MIME message. --130.233.193.44.9849.22406.925856028.813.1963 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Grant Taylor : > Lars has apparently setup a CVS-based automated environment; it's > about half done, and he's not yet documented or populated it. Er, I have a makefile and related things to build a howto tree, but no CVS server or anything yet. Give me cvs.debian.org and a working back, and I'll give you a working system in a week. :) (I'll be gone tomorrow to work on the working back, and have asked for Terry to provide the CVS server. If anyone else can arrange it faster, or has experience with running one already, then go ahead and do it.) -- Stupid little mailer under construction, sorry for any problems. --130.233.193.44.9849.22406.925856028.813.1963 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.6.3ia iQCVAwUBNy9xHIQRll5MupLRAQF6nQQA1dseJ9iughmasp6U5vD82tbZrJIbxZDd 4nt0fRpdkywJZClQn3hjxE7zXT3vkUi7J8YdbsfxBOYVlfQ365JvxSg6RzA+D6uJ zMUQk30ZVJkeKzHa7jSo8DWzh1+1cxivS8aXfSuAofsAbh3LIKYiB69mQExaLH9E JJRg6oAvyeM= =jzmj -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --130.233.193.44.9849.22406.925856028.813.1963-- This was a MIME message. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id OAA21219 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 14:16:06 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id OAA06142 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 14:15:58 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id MAA26970 for ldp-l-list; Wed, 5 May 1999 12:05:15 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from burdell.cc.gatech.edu (root@burdell.cc.gatech.edu [130.207.3.207]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id MAA26966 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 12:05:11 +0800 Received: from forge.cc.gatech.edu (gregh@forge.cc.gatech.edu [130.207.9.19]) by burdell.cc.gatech.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA22765 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 00:05:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from gregh@localhost) by forge.cc.gatech.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA01216 for ldp-l@linux.org.au; Wed, 5 May 1999 00:05:06 -0400 (EDT) From: gregh@cc.gatech.edu (Greg Hankins) Message-Id: <199905050405.AAA01216@forge.cc.gatech.edu> Subject: Re: Submitting HOWTOs To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 00:05:05 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: from "Lars Wirzenius" at Apr 28, 99 11:00:13 am X-PGP-fingerprint: 41 33 31 72 76 3F 42 DA AF E6 04 6D 36 79 6F EA X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Lars Wirzenius writes: >- WWW and FTP space, so that released versions of our works can >distributed. This would be the new master LDP site, from which other >would mirror (at least metalab; others could continue to mirror fr= >om >=09there). I can setup the mirror on metalab. >BTW, I assume it would make sense to keep the LDP homepages under >CVS as well. Comments? (From Greg, especially.) I guess we could. But I'd have to insist on being the only person to update them (the LDP web pages that is -- not the HTML version of LDP works). Greg -- Greg Hankins | Linux Documentation Project MS CS - Georgia Tech, College of Computing | Homepage and Linux Information http://www.cc.gatech.edu/staff/h/Greg.Hankins/ | http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id HAA00553 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 07:16:25 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id HAA02816 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 07:16:19 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id CAA28072 for ldp-l-list; Fri, 7 May 1999 02:38:26 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from unknown ([208.152.243.19]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id CAA28068 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 02:38:18 +0800 From: IPI@mail.unilat.com To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: FREE LEATHERMAN SUPER TOOL **-(A.D.V)-** Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 14:38:26 Message-Id: <512.457293.418450@unknown> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk FREE LEATHERMAN SUPER TOOL

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From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA12159 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 04:33:48 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (majordom@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA05152 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 04:33:40 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id CAA07080 for ldp-l-list; Sat, 8 May 1999 02:11:12 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from hera.cwi.nl (hera.cwi.nl [192.16.191.1]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA07076 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 02:10:54 +0800 Received: from eland.cwi.nl (eland.cwi.nl [192.16.191.73]) by hera.cwi.nl with ESMTP id UAA02395 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 20:10:36 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by eland.cwi.nl id UAA02925; Fri, 7 May 1999 20:10:35 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 20:10:35 +0200 (MET DST) From: Andries.Brouwer@cwi.nl Message-Id: To: ldp-l@linux.org.au, srgjoen@online.no, winni@xpilot.org Subject: Re: HOWTO uploads Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk > The uploading situation is now so silly it isn't even amusing. As mentioned, I have machines with good connectivity. Whenever people send me their HOWTO, it will be made available within hours, assuming that I am not abroad. Andries - aeb@cwi.nl From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA24317 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 00:25:15 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id KAA27617 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 10:25:11 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id HAA14092 for ldp-l-list; Mon, 17 May 1999 07:33:54 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from cupido.cs.hut.fi (helistin.in.helsinki.fi [128.214.182.99]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id HAA14087 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 07:33:38 +0800 Received: from liw by cupido.cs.hut.fi with local (Exim 2.11 #1 (Debian)) for ldp-l@linux.org.au id 10jANX-0008B7-00; Mon, 17 May 1999 02:31:31 +0300 Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 23:31:30 GMT Message-ID: From: Lars Wirzenius To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Cc: Subject: I hate my inbox, or: the LDP leader is the target Mail-Copies-To: never X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-md5"; boundary="130.233.193.44.9849.31318.926897490.517.32658"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk This is a MIME message. --130.233.193.44.9849.31318.926897490.517.32658 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I mentioned on linux-doc@vger.rutgers.edu that I am the new LDP leader. I've been getting much too much personal feedback since then, some of it nice and some of it not. I feel like I should do some PR. I hate PR. I didn't really figure this would happen when I decided to take on the task. I really, really dislike it. While it can be nice to hear that a major US publisher would like to contribute to the LDP (I directed them to the ldp-discuss list), I aggressively detest having to deal with every = opinionated, non-contributing fool with an urge to tell me what I should be doing with my free time. I want to do things, not talk about them. While some discussion is obviously necessary, it doesn't help me at all to get things done to be flooded (well, OK, there were only about a dozen unpleasant ones this week) with irrelevant e-mail that I still have to read and process in some good-for-the-LDP way. Now I just finally deleted the unpleasant stuff and responded (although not always too politely) to the rest. If this isn't just a temporary (and short-lived) phenomenon, I'm going to have to reconsider my commitment to being the LDP leader. (I should have known this beforehand, I know. I had similar experiences when I was much more visible in the Linux community. Being well-known is not something I wish to be.) On a lighter note, I managed to hack on the build process today. (My back is also a bit better.) I still need to generate the list of guides and howtos automatically, and do the actual copying-to-a-public-place in a good way, but otherwise things are not too bad. = Now, if we only had a CVS server... (I've asked the openprojects.net people as well.) --130.233.193.44.9849.31318.926897490.517.32658 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.6.3ia iQCVAwUBNz9VUIQRll5MupLRAQH9rgQAg5jgTt3rSJ0eTI9u6RFz42NC2W3GOczT UJ4P0+r+3M9bGpvbEZxF9QaEhhi2U48//TxNno9UOcnKsTfeC+9t71e9ip9Wix1X F1+wm6uJfgGqkp/cLB7ZKPhMD9HA90yrFqmcH60q+txUJ3MYlknvFKfQE7DXRkF3 Q/ZRppVYllU= =3Tdt -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --130.233.193.44.9849.31318.926897490.517.32658-- This was a MIME message. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id FAA25668 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 05:28:04 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id PAA27904 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 15:27:59 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id NAA16354 for ldp-l-list; Mon, 17 May 1999 13:13:14 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from ezwebhost.com (root@www10.ezwebhost.com [207.149.40.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id NAA16350 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 13:13:08 +0800 Received: from blacky (5135-239.021.popsite.net [207.138.230.239]) by ezwebhost.com (8.9.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA17161 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 22:13:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905170513.WAA17161@ezwebhost.com> From: "Mr. Poet" Organization: LinuxPorts Software To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 22:10:51 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Is the LDP still alive? Reply-to: poet@linuxports.com X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.02b14) Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Hello, Is the LDP still alive? It seems almost impossible to get the updates in and their are hacks in the FTP directory... Couldn't we just implement CVS or something for self maintanance? Poet -- Maintainer Commercial, VAR, Consultants Howto --poet@linuxports.com-- ICQ: 33017215 http://www.linuxports.com --Power to the Penguin-- From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id GAA25845 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 06:04:01 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id QAA27925 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 16:03:56 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id NAA16423 for ldp-l-list; Mon, 17 May 1999 13:26:35 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org (k3nw024.dial.kabelfoon.nl [195.193.24.24]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id NAA16416 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 13:26:18 +0800 Received: from bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org (bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org [192.168.100.254]) by bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA29451 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 07:26:12 +0200 Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 07:26:12 +0200 (CEST) From: Hugo van der Kooij X-Sender: hvdkooij@bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Firewall howto? Message-ID: X-URL: http://www.caiw.nl/~hvdkooij/ X-Loop: Hugo.van.der.Kooij@caiw.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Hi, as far as I can seen the firewall howto is unmaintained in the practical sense of the word because: - The author's email adres is incorrect (I get a reject on Mark Grennan ) - The date of the document is: 8 November 1996 So unless someone can tell me this week the document is actually alive and kicking I will restart the document and have the current one declared unmaintained. Hugo. PS: Lars told me this should be the list all howto maintainers are on right now. -- Hugo van der Kooij; Oranje Nassaustraat 16; 3155 VJ Maasland hvdkooij@caiw.nl http://www.caiw.nl/~hvdkooij/ -------------------------------------------------------------- Use of any of my email addresses for unsollicited (commercial) email is a clear intrusion of my privacy and illegal! From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id GAA25885 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 06:12:29 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id QAA27938 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 16:12:24 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id OAA16589 for ldp-l-list; Mon, 17 May 1999 14:02:20 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from wallybox.cei.net (tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net [204.180.109.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id OAA16584 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 14:02:15 +0800 Received: from localhost (tjbynum@localhost) by wallybox.cei.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id AAA16745 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 00:55:12 -0500 Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 00:55:11 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim - HOWTO Coordinator To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: uploads In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Hello All, I'll be uploading on Sunday and Wednesday until I hear otherwise from Lars. If you have an update then please send it my direction by tomorrow (Monday) evening around 10:00pm CDT and it will make it to metalab. I'm waiting until Monday this time to let everyone know. I will gladly do this 3 times a week or every other day if folks see the need. I now have the time to devote about 12-14 hrs. a week to the HOWTOs and this will *NOT* change as I have removed most of the extracuricular activities that have been getting in the way, aside from my "better half" and she gets most of my attention these days. ;) [Lars] If I need to set up CVS then let me know. I've done it in the past and it seems to have worked fine, just let me know how you'd like it set up. I only have a 56K to the net, but should have a T1 set up at work w/in the next month or so, so if it gets to be too cumbersome with the 56K, it will be short-lived. Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id IAA26773 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 08:50:27 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id SAA27999 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 18:50:16 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id PAA17910 for ldp-l-list; Mon, 17 May 1999 15:58:30 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from lafn.org (lafn.ORG [206.117.18.1]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id PAA17877 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 15:57:23 +0800 Received: by lafn.org id AA04661 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ldp-l@linux.org.au); Mon, 17 May 1999 00:56:02 -0700 Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 00:56:02 -0700 Message-Id: <199905170756.AA04661@lafn.org> From: bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer) To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: I hate my inbox, or: the LDP leader is the target Reply-To: bf347@lafn.org Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Lars W wrote: > >I mentioned on linux-doc@vger.rutgers.edu that I am the >new LDP leader. I've been getting much too much personal >feedback since then, some of it nice and some of it not. > >I feel like I should do some PR. I hate PR. > >I didn't really figure this would happen when I decided to >take on the task. I really, really dislike it. While it can be >nice to hear that a major US publisher would like to >contribute to the LDP (I directed them to the ldp-discuss >list), I aggressively detest having to deal with every >opinionated, non-contributing fool with an urge to tell >me what I should be doing with my free time. Well, I wouldn't feel bad about such suggestions. Aren't some of these people trying to be helpful (even if their advice is wrong or of low priority)? I think I felt worse than you do during the debate on the LDP License proposed by E. S. Raymond. > >I want to do things, not talk about them. While some >discussion is obviously necessary, it doesn't help me >at all to get things done to be flooded (well, OK, there >were only about a dozen unpleasant ones this week) >with irrelevant e-mail that I still have to read and process >in some good-for-the-LDP way. Now I just finally deleted >the unpleasant stuff and responded (although not always too >politely) to the rest. I don't get it. How bad is the unpleasant stuff? Could you give some examples? If it's too extreme, can't you sue for defamation of character? As a HOWTO author I've gotten a lot of feedback, both useful and almost useless. I've gotten undeserved praise and only a couple of sharp criticisms which I deserved. On the whole, it's been an ego boost especially when I get email telling me how excellent my HOWTO is when I know that's hyperbole. >If this isn't just a temporary (and short-lived) phenomenon, >I'm going to have to reconsider my commitment to being >the LDP leader. (I should have known this beforehand, I >know. I had similar experiences when I was much more >visible in the Linux community. Being well-known is not >something I wish to be.) Don't let it get you down. I think all of us appreciate the scripts you wrote for automatic submission of HOWTOs for format checking, even if the sgml2info checker finds too many errors :-) Many of our problems result from not enough recruiting of new authors. One way to try to get them is to search the Web and newsgroups and find people already writing about using Linux. Some even write documentation and put it on their own website without thinking (or knowing) that they could turn it into a HOWTO. So I think that I will try recruiting if I find time. Also everyone else should be encouraged to do this too. Of course if the writing is too poor, then don't invite them. But I think there is hope for people who write well but are a little misinformed on the facts (but are willing to learn). If each of us could just bring in one new author then ... -- Dave Lawyer From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA26853 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 09:07:33 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id TAA28014 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 19:07:25 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id QAA18134 for ldp-l-list; Mon, 17 May 1999 16:28:42 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from lafn.org (lafn.ORG [206.117.18.1]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id QAA18124 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 16:27:37 +0800 Received: by lafn.org id AA06771 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ldp-l@linux.org.au); Mon, 17 May 1999 01:26:25 -0700 Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 01:26:25 -0700 Message-Id: <199905170826.AA06771@lafn.org> From: bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer) To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Links between HOWTOs Reply-To: bf347@lafn.org Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Since I'm maintaining 3 HOWTOs which relate to the Serial Port: Text-Terminal, Modem, and Serial I find there's a lot of duplication. When I want to change something I may need to do it 2 or 3 times over. One solution would to use something like how the commercial Word Processors do it for linking, but all I use is vim. I could write say a script of some kind and mark places of duplicated content with sgml comments. Then I would run the script to update content (It would substitute updated material withing marks denoted by sgml comments). Another way would be to put a lot of links (which would become html links after conversion to html by sgml2html) in one HOWTO pointing to another HOWTO. This has drawbacks since many will not use the html version (especially since it's hard to search as compared to plain text since it gets split into many files for one HOWTO). Now if the author of HOWTO-A wants links to subsections in HOWTO-B by another author, how does he get the necessary labels into HOWTO-B. If it's hard to do, few people will bother. It's actually a bigger problem since one might want to link into man pages, guides, and documentation in /usr/doc. Any ideas? -- Dave Lawyer From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id MAA27632 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 12:02:37 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id WAA28092 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 22:02:33 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id TAA19577 for ldp-l-list; Mon, 17 May 1999 19:39:17 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from cupido.cs.hut.fi (cupido.cs.hut.fi [130.233.193.44]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id TAA19573 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 19:39:12 +0800 Received: from liw by cupido.cs.hut.fi with local (Exim 2.11 #1 (Debian)) for ldp-l@linux.org.au id 10jLhd-0008Pa-00; Mon, 17 May 1999 14:37:01 +0300 Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 11:37:00 GMT Message-ID: From: Lars Wirzenius To: Subject: uploads In-Reply-To: Mail-Copies-To: never X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-md5"; boundary="130.233.193.44.9849.32309.926941020.455.1284"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk This is a MIME message. --130.233.193.44.9849.32309.926941020.455.1284 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tim - HOWTO Coordinator : > [Lars] If I need to set up CVS then let me know. I've done it in the > past and it seems to have worked fine, just let me know how you'd like it > set up. I only have a 56K to the net, but should have a T1 set up at wor= k > w/in the next month or so, so if it gets to be too cumbersome with the > 56K, it will be short-lived. I'm waiting for the openprojects.net people to do things. They are already hosting other projects so it would be a good choice. -- Stupid little mailer under construction, sorry for any problems. --130.233.193.44.9849.32309.926941020.455.1284 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.6.3ia iQCVAwUBNz//WoQRll5MupLRAQEjZQP/SxNmEFvfD4jHLsoi9Ja7FguSWv/YfofL EzRZZ8N+HGr/3ONpZdSlhG4ktnH1Inb7ycQORoHBbl5QqzMBZ0V9D/i5au6oEj6u yHZd58zHn082fv6REQ8St08TmthCKpVE9zE/gGeQ6deTg2izRk1lnZXGTIFRNYwF 1zdGCSh5aVs= =3o7D -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --130.233.193.44.9849.32309.926941020.455.1284-- This was a MIME message. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id MAA27715 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 12:19:49 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id WAA28109 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 22:19:43 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id UAA19751 for ldp-l-list; Mon, 17 May 1999 20:03:55 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from cupido.cs.hut.fi (cupido.cs.hut.fi [130.233.193.44]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id UAA19743 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 20:03:12 +0800 Received: from liw by cupido.cs.hut.fi with local (Exim 2.11 #1 (Debian)) for ldp-l@linux.org.au id 10jM4m-0008Q2-00; Mon, 17 May 1999 15:00:56 +0300 Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 12:00:55 GMT Message-ID: From: Lars Wirzenius To: Subject: Links between HOWTOs In-Reply-To: <199905170826.AA06771@lafn.org> Mail-Copies-To: never X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-md5"; boundary="130.233.193.44.9849.32309.926942455.715.797"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk This is a MIME message. --130.233.193.44.9849.32309.926942455.715.797 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer): > Since I'm maintaining 3 HOWTOs which relate to the Serial Port: = > Text-Terminal, Modem, and Serial I find there's a lot of duplication. = Join the howtos? > he get the necessary labels into HOWTO-B. If it's hard to do, few people= = > will bother. It's actually a bigger problem since one might want to link= = > into man pages, guides, and documentation in /usr/doc. Any ideas? There is no automatic good way of referring to do general external references. When urls work, they can be used, otherwise verbal descriptions of the reference are needed. -- Stupid little mailer under construction, sorry for any problems. --130.233.193.44.9849.32309.926942455.715.797 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.6.3ia iQCVAwUBN0AE9YQRll5MupLRAQFWfgQAi0fVYQ3WM16dGoKe6f2tshKA20q721ef EXwrI+wG/GDFFXAIZEWmNv+hunEgxQ9wVcIjl7DCW/ahNlmiGddYyNxql4QtlcsX LG7oDu8SHcoZRGaSrLwEvFMSXF2qpkVcQKP5mU7s4Rv/9eNItcS+w8kA2SY4D78r 0/EFPUS/GCE= =b1Un -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --130.233.193.44.9849.32309.926942455.715.797-- This was a MIME message. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id MAA27721 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 12:19:50 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id WAA28110 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 22:19:47 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id TAA19690 for ldp-l-list; Mon, 17 May 1999 19:57:18 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from cupido.cs.hut.fi (cupido.cs.hut.fi [130.233.193.44]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id TAA19686 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 19:57:14 +0800 Received: from liw by cupido.cs.hut.fi with local (Exim 2.11 #1 (Debian)) for ldp-l@linux.org.au id 10jLz9-0008Pt-00; Mon, 17 May 1999 14:55:07 +0300 Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 11:55:07 GMT Message-ID: From: Lars Wirzenius To: Subject: Re: I hate my inbox, or: the LDP leader is the target In-Reply-To: <199905170756.AA04661@lafn.org> Mail-Copies-To: never X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-md5"; boundary="130.233.193.44.9849.32309.926942106.804.22180"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk This is a MIME message. --130.233.193.44.9849.32309.926942106.804.22180 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer): > Well, I wouldn't feel bad about such suggestions. Aren't some of these > people trying to be helpful (even if their advice is wrong or of low > priority)? Yes, most of them at least imagine they are being helpful. They are still wasting my personal time since they write to me and not to the list so that other people can deal with their questions and stuff. That is not how I wish or intend to spend the precious few moments I can sit in front of a computer. > Don't let it get you down. I think all of us appreciate the scripts you = > wrote for automatic submission of HOWTOs for format checking, even if the= = > sgml2info checker finds too many errors :-) = I like hacking scripts. I hate pretending I'm Mr. Nice Guy to people who are preventing me from hacking scripts. -- Stupid little mailer under construction, sorry for any problems. --130.233.193.44.9849.32309.926942106.804.22180 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.6.3ia iQCVAwUBN0ADmIQRll5MupLRAQFSpwQApJYp5++Td9XYECq01mcXDH3cBGgYjIAR zQprLUsEsYtsi3/ubMxJl+5NYFH2lITT0MndQrdIXMa2Zfp3wb5DAOd6E/yg6eMa xusaZ9h7yhKyuCONPr8ZIPIJ/JK+dwu0dJx2XbnlFPCf3LYbLd7j+U9NjXc/CmRe gU/Nuu1u4/Q= =vqj6 -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --130.233.193.44.9849.32309.926942106.804.22180-- This was a MIME message. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA31967 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 04:05:37 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id OAA30234 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 14:05:17 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id LAA31848 for ldp-l-list; Tue, 18 May 1999 11:49:50 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from wallybox.cei.net (tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net [204.180.109.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id LAA31844 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 11:49:45 +0800 Received: from localhost (tjbynum@localhost) by wallybox.cei.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id WAA23346 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 22:43:07 -0500 Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 22:43:06 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim - HOWTO Coordinator To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: Firewall howto? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Hugo, > So unless someone can tell me this week the document is actually alive and > kicking I will restart the document and have the current one declared > unmaintained. Please continue your efforts. There have been no takers on updating the HOWTO. Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id LAA08399 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 11:39:25 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id VAA00867 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 21:39:21 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id SAA18369 for ldp-l-list; Wed, 19 May 1999 18:50:41 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from cupido.cs.hut.fi (sitar.in.helsinki.fi [128.214.182.75]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id SAA18365 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 18:50:26 +0800 Received: from liw by cupido.cs.hut.fi with local (Exim 2.11 #1 (Debian)) id 10k3t9-0000vr-00; Wed, 19 May 1999 13:47:51 +0300 Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 10:47:50 GMT Message-ID: From: Lars Wirzenius To: ldp-l@linux.org.au, ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Cc: Subject: New leader, please Mail-Copies-To: never X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-md5"; boundary="130.233.193.44.9849.3521.927110870.215.11519"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk This is a MIME message. --130.233.193.44.9849.3521.927110870.215.11519 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm sorry, I don't want to be the LDP leader anymore. Please find someone else. I can't deal with any extra stress right now, and the LDP is generating unexpectedly much and of the wrong kind. At the moment, I won't even have time to work on the upload thingy. Someone else please take it over: = =09http://www.iki.fi/liw/ldp/ldp-cvs-draft1.tar.gz. (I'll answer questions. That's as far as I got to writing things down.) I have no news of a CVS server. = --130.233.193.44.9849.3521.927110870.215.11519 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.6.3ia iQCVAwUBN0KW1IQRll5MupLRAQHbvQP/W0k/UlZ2jMTbX1yMpc3dChnjJSyrFMWx RihasD1PR5A31c7OlfcWYZx0aZUYMy86dUoWUOYc46ONI57NivMBePL3DKRe7Kl1 jDLtgBNMtTOYpq9Lmi6FMGZjty5E4W6WMgYDMOOeUZCFwXfJgEwzFXJhQlig/tXx qh6Vsp1GUq4= =0fn5 -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --130.233.193.44.9849.3521.927110870.215.11519-- This was a MIME message. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id XAA11629 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 23:50:57 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA02676 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 09:50:52 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id HAA28804 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 20 May 1999 07:40:16 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from wallybox.cei.net (tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net [204.180.109.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id HAA28800 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 07:40:11 +0800 Received: from localhost (tjbynum@localhost) by wallybox.cei.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id SAA01437 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 18:34:24 -0500 Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 18:34:24 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim - HOWTO Coordinator To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: New leader, please In-Reply-To: <19990519231757.A27878@zen.ics.uwe.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Hello All, As for processing the HOWTOs, etc., well that's kind of already in place. What I had started to do with the work of another was to set up a stripped down version of CVS strictly for the purpose of LDP and in addition, create a set of tools so the the authors and the HOWTO co-ordinator(s) could easily work with the documents, etc. As for the LDP leadership, I'm not a 100% sure that one has to do with the other in regards to processing the HOWTOs/mini's, although they need to be closely related if that makes sense. As for the processing of the HOWTOs or mini's, once the sgml source is received, a single (actually multiple b/c of different languages but it's done automatically) Makefile is used to produce the different formats. Once this is done indexes are created and then imported into a "template" file which is the HOWTO-INDEX.xxx file(s). Once done, ssh and rdist are used to get them to metalab. So the need to go and do all of this again really isn't necessary, at least in my opinion. There's been some grumbling about the speed at which things get to metalab, and this *does* fall on my shoulders, so I do take the heat for this, but I have nothing to do with the LDP and reaching out to rest of the world or doing any of the LDP website stuff. This is done by Greg and I think the distinction (at least as it exists now) needs to be seen and/or recognized, b/c I feel like it's misunderstood and I realize that this is a problem. I will gladly open up my box for FTP access and/or continue work on CVS. I don't have a problem with either of these. I can automate more of what I have to get things processed if folks want to start dropping things off to me via FTP. I can do the same thing via email if we can come together and agree on a "Subject:" structure that will allow me to parse the incoming email and process them as I get them and send a brief response or create an HTML page with the results for folks to check if an email reply is too much. I am here and willing to do what it takes now that my transition to a new job is complete and the travelling has gone away and *not* to return. Just let me know what you'd like to see happen, or begin a thread now on what we can do in the very near future and I will do what it takes to see that it happens in a timely fashion. [Lars] Thank you for at least giving it a go and all your efforts. It's greatly appreciated and was *not* an easy task. You're still thought highly of (I speak for myself) and appreciated. Let me know if there's ever anything I can do for you...... Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA12018 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 01:11:17 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id LAA02777 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 11:11:12 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id JAA29544 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 20 May 1999 09:03:07 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from astor.interport.net (astor.interport.net [199.184.165.18]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA29539 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 09:03:02 +0800 Received: from burrito (mail@ts1port13.port.net [207.38.248.13]) by astor.interport.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA01833; Wed, 19 May 1999 21:04:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from arroz.fake [192.168.33.5] (mail) by burrito with esmtp (Exim 2.11 #1 (Debian)) id 10kHEc-0003rs-00; Wed, 19 May 1999 21:02:54 -0400 Received: from apharris by arroz.fake with local (Exim 2.11 #1 (Debian)) id 10kHM2-0002YU-00; Wed, 19 May 1999 21:10:34 -0400 To: ldp-l@linux.org.au, ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: New leader, please References: <199905191337.GAA00404@ezwebhost.com> <19990519231757.A27878@zen.ics.uwe.ac.uk> From: Adam Di Carlo Date: 19 May 1999 21:10:34 -0400 In-Reply-To: Daniel Barlow's message of "Wed, 19 May 1999 23:17:57 +0100" Message-ID: Lines: 47 User-Agent: Gnus/5.070084 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.84) Emacs/20.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Daniel Barlow writes: > Why actually do we need to have everything uploaded onto a single site > by a single person? [...] Workflow stuff like this would be up to the LDP leader to decide, I suppose. At the DDP, we are flexible and don't require the use of the DDP CVS area for all Debian documentation. > A CVS repository would still be useful to many authors, and if Debian > can provide one, I'd certainly make it the authoritative site for my > documents. It would be a more convenient way for other people to get > patches back to authors, and it could be used to make life simpler for > documents which are shared between multiple authors. (Personally I'd > like to see more of the latter; we have a whole host of overlapping > HOWTOs of varying age and accuracy, and I'd like to see more people > working together to produce logically coherent longer documents) Exactly. With them all in SGML, you can even define stock blobs of text, and share sections between manuals which can benefit from them. Blue sky: use Purl (not meaning Perl) or some other system to define URNs for the location-independant way to reference any part of any LDP document. This would require some stylesheet hacking but its not that bad (I've done it before in DSSSL). > During the next seven days, unless anyone else beats me to it or > successfully talks me out of it, I intend to get a collection script > written as described, and set up to output on my web site. The > authorative source for everything will initially be metalab, but if > anyone mails me with an http or ftp url for where they'd prefer to > keep the docbook or linuxdoc sources of their document, I'll probably > change their entry to suit. If it works on my web site, I gladly > offer whatever combinations of code, time, and expertise are necessary > to get it onto metalab or wherever else it would be useful in > production. It might be good to wait a bit and try to build consensus on the nuts-n-bolts of how things are going to work. If you *are* assuming a CVS area for all documentation, then "collect for output" (print, web, whatever) is imply a question of writing a Makefile, and all your work will be wasted. But anyhow, take me with a grain of salt. I'm only here in an "advisory" role -- I'm not an LDP member. -- .....Adam Di Carlo....adam@onShore.com..... From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA12025 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 01:11:24 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id LAA02788 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 11:11:16 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id JAA29549 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 20 May 1999 09:03:21 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from wallybox.cei.net (tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net [204.180.109.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA29545 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 09:03:15 +0800 Received: from localhost (tjbynum@localhost) by wallybox.cei.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id TAA02601; Wed, 19 May 1999 19:57:28 -0500 Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 19:57:27 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim - HOWTO Coordinator To: ldp-l@linux.org.au cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: LDP transisitons (uploads) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Hello Again, [In the interim] Those who wish to have their docs processed and uploaded automatically (when the repository reaches a minimum of 3) via an ftp upload/download (if you want me to grab it I'll set up a script to poll, you just tell me how often) then contact me and I'll set you up with a userid/pass or write the script to snag it. All sgml source should be in the .tgz (tar and gzip'd) format. I'm game if you are. Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA12070 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 01:19:27 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id LAA02882 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 11:19:21 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id JAA29648 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 20 May 1999 09:10:59 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from hera.cwi.nl (hera.cwi.nl [192.16.191.1]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA29644 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 09:10:52 +0800 Received: from eland.cwi.nl (eland.cwi.nl [192.16.191.73]) by hera.cwi.nl with ESMTP id DAA27426 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 03:10:36 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by eland.cwi.nl id DAA07183; Thu, 20 May 1999 03:10:35 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 03:10:35 +0200 (MET DST) From: Andries.Brouwer@cwi.nl Message-Id: To: ldp-l@linux.org.au, tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net Subject: Re: LDP transisitons Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk From: Tim - HOWTO Coordinator > No, Lars did not point that out correctly. > > "The authors" are an invisible grey mass without opinions > and certainly without actions. Nothing of any interest has > happened on the LDP front for a long long time. > Somebody must actually *do* something. Not wait for > anonymous authors. This may be true, but very sad to say the least. It should *not* be one person(s) responsibility to do the above. The above? This is a group and should be treated like one. Not each author keeping to his/her self and not getting involved. The idea here is come together and be heard internally and externally. I believe in this concept and can't just jump on the bandwagon of pointing fingers or letting all the authors believe that their only responsibility is just to update the documentation. This certainly is not how Linux came to be what it is today. Maybe you misunderstand what I mean, or you don't know how these things work. If there is a mailing list, and we are going to talk together about designing a new operating system, then we talk forever, and nothing happens. If one sits down, works for six weeks and comes back and says: look, this is a very rudimentary operating system. This, and this and this is still missing. Then lots of people come along and add their little contribution, and six months later you have a beautiful system. But one has to do the initial work. Two is already much worse. Democracy is not a good way to create beautiful things. For example, I would like to see a Linux Manual instead of our present loose collection of HOWTOs. Someone has to sit down, write a very detailed table of contents, fill sixty pages of the thousand that it is going to be, and say: look, what do you think of this. And other people will fill other sections, and someone will be willing to maintain the thing, add cross references, rearrange material, etc. and maybe, two years later, we'll find that most HOWTOs have become superfluous, that there is a single document describing Linux. Without this single first person this will not happen. > Unfortunately Tim has been doing a bad job, and that made uploading > of HOWTOs a topic of discussion. But this is extremely unimportant Unfortunately I have to agree with the job I've done as of late. But I have changed Very well. Then this point is taken care of. Still, I think it would be useful to create some scripts and automatisms and a well-defined procedure, especially now that some people have stated their willingness to do so. Lars wrote something already, and Dan is willing to write something. Let us not lose this. > Somewhat better is not just a site but one that offers anonymous CVS, > and it seems Debian is offering us just that. > So, let us accept this offer and use a Debian CVS repository. I don't think that the Debian is the best and not one that I would *prefer*. I didn't say accept (besides it's not my call) Oh yes, it is your call, and especially the call of the people who actually implement the stuff. It seems to me that you should be part of this. Not everyone will want to use CVS, so the result would be that there are three sources: (i) CVS, (ii) email submissions, (iii) author's sites. Maybe a fourth could be ftp upload. The channels have to be defined and described, it must be known who is doing what, the email addresses and URLs must be published. but I'd like to steer away from taking sides on distributions, etc. Yes, that is not unreasonable. Staying away from commercial distributions is probably a good idea. On the other hand, Adam offered CVS, and I have not yet seen anyone else. Moreover, I would like to see some entity that has some permanence - that did exist three years ago and will exist seven years from now. > Perhaps Adam and Dan and Tim and Greg can together figure out the mechanisms > and scripts that accomplish this. It should take at most days to figure out > a workable solution, and at most hours to write the scripts. > I hope that the people mentioned are able to come to a conclusion > and tell us about the result. I've stated my stand above and hold to it. I am not quite sure what you mean here. You prefer a place different from Debian. Or are you saying more? Andries From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA12311 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 02:11:45 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id MAA02932 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 12:11:36 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id KAA30070 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 20 May 1999 10:01:13 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from wallybox.cei.net (tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net [204.180.109.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id KAA30066 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 10:01:04 +0800 Received: from localhost (tjbynum@localhost) by wallybox.cei.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id UAA02859; Wed, 19 May 1999 20:55:26 -0500 Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 20:55:25 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim - HOWTO Coordinator To: ldp-l@linux.org.au cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: LDP transisitons In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk > This may be true, but very sad to say the least. It should *not* be one > person(s) responsibility to do the above. > > The above? I was referring to the fact that the authors were no one and some(one) had to do something. The point is mute....I understand and agree with your reply. > Maybe you misunderstand what I mean, or you don't know how these things work. Know....trust me, I understand the "too many chiefs not enough Indians" concept and its ramifications. :) > For example, I would like to see a Linux Manual instead of our present > loose collection of HOWTOs. Someone has to sit down, write a very detailed > table of contents, fill sixty pages of the thousand that it is going to be, > and say: look, what do you think of this. And other people will fill other > sections, and someone will be willing to maintain the thing, add cross references, > rearrange material, etc. and maybe, two years later, we'll find that most HOWTOs > have become superfluous, that there is a single document describing Linux. The day will come, but I'd like to work on the present, which I'm sure is what your point is. > > Unfortunately Tim has been doing a bad job, and that made uploading > > of HOWTOs a topic of discussion. But this is extremely unimportant > > Unfortunately I have to agree with the job I've done as of late. > But I have changed > > Very well. Then this point is taken care of. > Still, I think it would be useful to create some scripts and automatisms > and a well-defined procedure, especially now that some people have stated > their willingness to do so. Lars wrote something already, and Dan is willing > to write something. Let us not lose this. Agreed. I'll submit the way I'd like to see things done, in that I'm doing them now and I know what's needed and what comes up and smacks you in the face. > Oh yes, it is your call, and especially the call of the people who actually Alone.....no, in a round-a-bout way, yes I suppose so. > Not everyone will want to use CVS, so the result would be that there are > three sources: (i) CVS, (ii) email submissions, (iii) author's sites. > Maybe a fourth could be ftp upload. The channels have to be defined > and described, it must be known who is doing what, the email addresses > and URLs must be published. Agreed. I made a reference to some of this in a previous post. > but I'd like to steer away from taking sides on distributions, etc. > > Yes, that is not unreasonable. Staying away from commercial distributions > is probably a good idea. On the other hand, Adam offered CVS, and I have > not yet seen anyone else. Moreover, I would like to see some entity that > has some permanence - that did exist three years ago and will exist seven > years from now. Yes, but unfortunately I see many of the commercial Linux(es) or companies doing a dis-service in many ways, but that's a whole different story. > I am not quite sure what you mean here. > You prefer a place different from Debian. Or are you saying more? Only said I'll do what it takes, but would prefer for this to be handled by us as a group. I wasn't biting off heads with the statement above or saying hush and go away, I'd at least like to make that clear in case I was misunderstood, perhaps the rest of my rambling isn't too much clearer either. ;) I stated in an earlier post I'd finish the CVS, and Lars had said he was working with another site. My connection now is not the best, but will change in the very near future. I will gladly continue work on it if people will use it, and I don't mean a few of the authors. Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA12317 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 02:11:56 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id MAA02943 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 12:11:50 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id KAA30107 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 20 May 1999 10:05:13 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from wallybox.cei.net (tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net [204.180.109.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id KAA30103 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 10:05:08 +0800 Received: from localhost (tjbynum@localhost) by wallybox.cei.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id UAA02873; Wed, 19 May 1999 20:59:30 -0500 Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 20:59:30 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim - HOWTO Coordinator To: ldp-l@linux.org.au cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: New leader, please In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk > It might be good to wait a bit and try to build consensus on the > nuts-n-bolts of how things are going to work. If you *are* assuming a > CVS area for all documentation, then "collect for output" (print, web, > whatever) is imply a question of writing a Makefile, and all your work > will be wasted. Agreed. Most of the work is done, so to just start over for the sake of it would just be a waste of your time, and I'd much rather see it put together with those (ok, me for now) actually handling the docs now. > But anyhow, take me with a grain of salt. I'm only here in an > "advisory" role -- I'm not an LDP member. I've always asked for input, so don't apologize for giving it. Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA12375 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 02:23:32 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id MAA02962 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 12:23:28 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id KAA30274 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 20 May 1999 10:13:30 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from wallybox.cei.net (tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net [204.180.109.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id KAA30261 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 10:13:11 +0800 Received: from localhost (tjbynum@localhost) by wallybox.cei.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id VAA02938; Wed, 19 May 1999 21:07:14 -0500 Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 21:07:14 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim - HOWTO Coordinator To: ldp-l@linux.org.au cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: LDP transisitons In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk > Tim - HOWTO Coordinator writes: > > I don't think that the Debian is the best and not one that I would > > *prefer*. I didn't say accept (besides it's not my call) but I'd > > like to steer away from taking sides on distributions, etc. Just my > > thoughts, some may strongly disagree or think it good. Speak up and > > be heard. > > Well, I don't think that just because the box would be *hosted* by > Debian necessarily means that there is any implied Debian slant to the > whole thing. I agree with Tim that the LDP should be distribution I don't think that anything would be assumed, just puts it/us in a situation that me be a little uncomfortable at some point in time. Perhaps I am wrong. > independant. (Actually, my problem is that there is too much RedHat > stuff in the LDP documents right now, but I guess that's natural, > since it's the most popular distribution right now. Anyhow, I > wouldn't hypocritically suppose that Debian slant is any better > implicitly than *any* slant.) I agree with the comments on RedHat, but I suppose the more users of this distro, the more docs we'll see, which all-in-all I guess is what we're here for, right?? > cvs.ldp.org an IP on the box, or some such. I don't really see how > hosting the LDP on a system run by the Debian project would negatively > impact the purported distribution-neutrality of the LDP. Just like > the current LDP web site isn't "metalab" slanted, is it? No, I didn't mean anything derogatory (sp?) by that. And besides, metalab isn't distro specific, which was my only point. > I have no *intention* to "pollute" or de-neutralize the LDP. Geeze. > You'd think Debian was a big capital-rich, aggressive corporation, eh? Ok, so it's a mis-communication, but I was never accusing you of this. ;) > I only am here as an advisor, a kibbitzer, and a volunteer. I don't > even have a "vote". I have no particular stand or duties. In fact, my > only qualification is a rich knowledge of SGML/DocBook, a love of > Makefiles and documentation, and the fact that I helped setup the DDP > area, which is remarkably similar in structure to Lar's proposed LDP > CVS area . And it's all greatly appreciate....trust me. Never bites the hand that feeds ya. ;) Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA12425 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 02:34:24 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id MAA02975 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 12:34:21 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id KAA30410 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 20 May 1999 10:23:22 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from ezwebhost.com (root@www10.ezwebhost.com [207.149.40.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id KAA30405 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 10:23:09 +0800 Received: from blacky (5135-239.021.popsite.net [207.138.230.239]) by ezwebhost.com (8.9.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA16854; Wed, 19 May 1999 19:25:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905200225.TAA16854@ezwebhost.com> From: "Mr. Poet" Organization: LinuxPorts Software To: ldp-l@linux.org.au, ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 19:21:45 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: One more Reply-to: poet@linuxports.com X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.02b14) Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk And let's get a central mailing list server. --poet@linuxports.com-- ICQ: 33017215 http://www.linuxports.com --Power to the Penguin-- From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA12433 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 02:34:56 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id MAA02986 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 12:34:51 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id KAA30397 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 20 May 1999 10:20:55 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from ezwebhost.com (root@www10.ezwebhost.com [207.149.40.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id KAA30393 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 10:20:45 +0800 Received: from blacky (5135-239.021.popsite.net [207.138.230.239]) by ezwebhost.com (8.9.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA16795; Wed, 19 May 1999 19:22:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905200222.TAA16795@ezwebhost.com> From: "Mr. Poet" Organization: LinuxPorts Software To: ldp-l@linux.org.au, ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 19:19:23 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Couple of suggestions Reply-to: poet@linuxports.com X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.02b14) Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Hello, I want to make a couple of suggestions. 1. I think we as authors/maintainers should be able to charge a fee for the right to publish in a commercial printed format. I believe that we should never charge for any electronically available text and I believe that the LDP should always be free. However I also feel that if a company is going to take our hard work and make money off of it their should be some compensation for the hard work we put in to it. 2. I also think that we should switch to DOCBOOK. 3. I also think that we need elect a new coordinator... Maybe not a leader but somebody that we can point at and say, "Hey, what the heck is going on???". Poet --poet@linuxports.com-- ICQ: 33017215 http://www.linuxports.com --Power to the Penguin-- From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id DAA12677 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 03:28:35 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id NAA03024 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 13:28:28 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id LAA30857 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 20 May 1999 11:06:57 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from hera.cwi.nl (hera.cwi.nl [192.16.191.1]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id LAA30853 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 11:06:53 +0800 Received: from eland.cwi.nl (eland.cwi.nl [192.16.191.73]) by hera.cwi.nl with ESMTP id FAA01125 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 05:06:16 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by eland.cwi.nl id FAA08000; Thu, 20 May 1999 05:06:15 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 05:06:15 +0200 (MET DST) From: Andries.Brouwer@cwi.nl Message-Id: To: ldp-l@linux.org.au, poet@linuxports.com Subject: Re: CVS Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk "Mr. Poet" writes: > I am also very distribution inspecific... Yes, but you are anonymous and want to make money... From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id IAA14131 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 08:12:13 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id SAA03225 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 18:12:06 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id PAA00854 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 20 May 1999 15:41:26 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from ezwebhost.com (root@www10.ezwebhost.com [207.149.40.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id PAA00850 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 15:41:22 +0800 Received: from blacky (5135-239.021.popsite.net [207.138.230.239]) by ezwebhost.com (8.9.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA20830; Thu, 20 May 1999 00:43:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905200743.AAA20830@ezwebhost.com> From: "Mr. Poet" Organization: LinuxPorts Software To: ldp-l@linux.org.au, ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 00:40:01 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: So again we digress Reply-to: poet@linuxports.com X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.02b14) Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Hello, Maybe I am just an Anal freak who likes Penguins to much... but I believe that regardless of anything else the most important thing right now is to get a Leader/Coordinator/Czar whatever you want to call it in place. The LDP can offer a great deal more to the Linux Community that it has been of late and if we all step up. Lets pick someone so we can continue to grow the Linux Community. So what does it take to do this? Who makes the ultimate decision? If it is the authors, then let's do it... All the people who are willing to put the brains (and hearts) on the line to take this position speak up and let's vote! I know that I volunteered earlier and I still am willing to step up to the plate but I am also willing and gladly at that to give it to someone else if they want it. I just want it taken care of so we can concentrate on what is most important to this, creating quality documentation for the Linux Community. Poet -- Joshua D. Drake --poet@linuxports.com-- ICQ: 33017215 http://www.linuxports.com --Power to the Penguin-- From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA14537 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 09:34:31 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id TAA03275 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 19:34:22 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id RAA01748 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 20 May 1999 17:10:04 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from scicom.alphacdc.com (IDENT:4@scicom.alphacdc.com [192.88.125.1]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id RAA01744 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 17:10:00 +0800 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by scicom.alphacdc.com (8.8.8/8.8.8-ACDC) with UUCP id DAA26360 for ldp-l@linux.org.au; Thu, 20 May 1999 03:09:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from vern@localhost) by zebra.alphacdc.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id DVH27987; Thu, 20 May 1999 03:09:10 -0600 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 03:09:10 -0600 Message-Id: <199905200909.DVH27987@zebra.alphacdc.com> From: Vern Hoxie To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: SGML, CVS etc. Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Hi! Peter Baumann has recently asked me to take over the Serial-Programming-HOWTO for him. On Thu, 20 May 1999, Andries Brouwer wrote: > Not everyone will want to use CVS, so the result would be that there > are three sources: (i) CVS, (ii) email submissions, (iii) author's > sites. Maybe a fourth could be ftp upload. The channels have to be > defined and described, it must be known who is doing what, the email > addresses and URLs must be published. I am still trying to get the SGML Tools working. The thought of having to get CVS installed and to get familiar with it as well is frightening. Anyone have any suggestions about what the commands are to get the sgml-powertools to translate? The older sgml-tools-1.0.2 had several sgml2* programs but the two packages don't tell how they are supposed to work together. I was able to get the old Serial-Programming-HOWTO.sgml to convert to .txt but any other conversion failed. After I get my version written, where is it supposed to be sent? vern -- Vernon C. Hoxie vern@zebra.alphacdc.com 3975 W. 29th Ave. uucp: 303-455-2670 Denver, Colo., 80212 voice: 303-477-1780 Truth is eternal, knowledge is changeable. It is disastrous to confuse them. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id MAA15313 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 12:27:25 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id WAA04231 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 22:27:16 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id UAA03446 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 20 May 1999 20:09:17 +0800 Received: from inf.ufrgs.br (caracol.inf.ufrgs.br [143.54.11.7]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id UAA03417 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 20:06:59 +0800 Received: from doncarlo.inf.ufrgs.br (casantos@scliar [143.54.7.131]) by inf.ufrgs.br (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA15300 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 09:03:30 -0300 (EST) Received: from localhost (casantos@localhost) by doncarlo.inf.ufrgs.br (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA02146 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 03:05:46 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: doncarlo.inf.ufrgs.br: casantos owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 03:05:45 +0000 (GMT) From: Carlos A M dos Santos To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Info and RTF: dead or alive? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk The current sgmltools is simply unable to generate decent Info and RTF versions of the Portuguese-HOWTO and i'm tired of fighting against it's bugs. May I simply ignore the Info and RTF version? BTW, I made lots of fixes and enhancements in the current groff/txt, HTML and LaTeX backends, including - true footnotes in HTML and txt - groff hyphenation in other languages (tested with Portuguese) - bibliography and references - figures and tables (ugly hack, but works with groff too) I think that if we will keep using LinuxDoc for a while, it would be useful to release a fixed version, but I don't have whom to send them to, since the package is unmaintained at the moment. -- Carlos A M dos Santos - Linux Portuguese-HOWTO maintainer From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id MAA15327 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 12:29:25 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id WAA04243 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 22:29:21 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id UAA03439 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 20 May 1999 20:08:01 +0800 Received: from inf.ufrgs.br (caracol.inf.ufrgs.br [143.54.11.7]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id UAA03435 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 20:07:46 +0800 Received: from doncarlo.inf.ufrgs.br (casantos@scliar [143.54.7.131]) by inf.ufrgs.br (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA15295 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 09:03:26 -0300 (EST) Received: from localhost (casantos@localhost) by doncarlo.inf.ufrgs.br (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA02066 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 02:35:09 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: doncarlo.inf.ufrgs.br: casantos owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 02:35:09 +0000 (GMT) From: Carlos A M dos Santos To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Which list? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk OK, boys. There are other four LDP-ralated lists: ldp-dbwg@ntlug.org ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org linux-doc@vger.rutgers.edu ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Could some kind soul tell me which one is the oficial LDP list? -- Carlos A M dos Santos - Linux Portuguese-HOWTO maintainer From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id MAA15393 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 12:41:44 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id WAA04259 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 22:41:39 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id UAA03489 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 20 May 1999 20:13:13 +0800 Received: from nfs.aceonline.com.au (root@nfs.aceonline.com.au [203.62.135.41]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id UAA03485 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 20:13:11 +0800 Received: from inf.ufrgs.br (caracol.inf.ufrgs.br [143.54.11.7]) by nfs.aceonline.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8.DIE.SPAMMER.DIE) with ESMTP id UAA26408 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 20:12:56 +0800 Received: from doncarlo.inf.ufrgs.br (casantos@scliar [143.54.7.131]) by inf.ufrgs.br (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA15304 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 09:03:33 -0300 (EST) Received: from localhost (casantos@localhost) by doncarlo.inf.ufrgs.br (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA02050 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 02:24:41 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: doncarlo.inf.ufrgs.br: casantos owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 02:24:40 +0000 (GMT) From: Carlos A M dos Santos To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: LDP transisitons In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On Thu, 20 May 1999 Andries.Brouwer@cwi.nl wrote: > For example, I would like to see a Linux Manual instead of our present > loose collection of HOWTOs. Someone has to sit down, write a very > detailed table of contents, fill sixty pages of the thousand that it > is going to be, and say: look, what do you think of this. And other > people will fill other sections, and someone will be willing to > maintain the thing, add cross references, rearrange material, etc. and > maybe, two years later, we'll find that most HOWTOs have become > superfluous, that there is a single document describing Linux. A single document describing *which* Linux? I started to maintain the Portuguese HOWTO in december 1997, Since than, it became a monster (35 printed pages in the last version) besause it is a Slackware, Debian, Red Hat and S.u.S.E. Portuguese HOWTO. Anyone interested in maintain a guide or HOWTO will have the same problem. -- Carlos A M dos Santos - Linux Portuguese-HOWTO maintainer From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id RAA16719 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 17:37:42 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id DAA04741 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 03:37:38 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id AAA06422 for ldp-l-list; Fri, 21 May 1999 00:53:15 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from inf.ufrgs.br (caracol.inf.ufrgs.br [143.54.11.7]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA06418 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 00:53:02 +0800 Received: from spica (spica [143.54.8.9]) by inf.ufrgs.br (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA07485 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 13:49:24 -0300 (EST) Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 13:55:15 -0300 (EST) From: Carlos A M dos Santos X-Sender: casantos@spica To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: LDP transisitons In-Reply-To: <19990520083153.A8691@thyrsus.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On Thu, 20 May 1999, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > This is the direction I was trying to go with Linux Undercover, the last > compendium. Where can I get a copy? > If it ever happens, I think it will be not because the boundaries > between HOWTOs disappear but because they've developed a richer > cross-reference structure and indexing over time. Well, yes and no, because there is no standard way of cross-reference HOWTOs. If I want to reference another one, I can ad an tag, but it pobably will not be valid in the next version version of the referenced document. > Perhaps our markup needs URNs and standard namespace for doing references > between HOWTOs. Well, I think that it would be possible, if we had some kind of HOWTO DBMS to keep track of the cross-references an send a mail to the corresponding maintainer (and perhaps to the co-ordinator) warning about any broken link. This could also solve the problem of document uploading. I think Trove (is it being developed yet?) was intended to this kind of task. Carlos P.S. I use fetchmail at home. Thanks! From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id RAA16781 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 17:50:40 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id DAA04757 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 03:50:35 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id BAA06611 for ldp-l-list; Fri, 21 May 1999 01:37:59 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from carmfw01.mcp.com (macmin.mcp.com [198.70.148.65]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id BAA06606 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 01:37:49 +0800 From: jkoch@mcp.com Received: from net1-167.mcp.com by carmfw01.mcp.com via smtpd (for digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) with SMTP; 20 May 1999 17:37:35 UT X-Internal-ID: 37400C8400008712 Received: from MAIL2.MCP.COM (168.146.161.148) by carmms004.mcp.com (NPlex 2.0.108) for ldp-l@linux.org.au; 20 May 1999 17:38:53 -0000 Received: from ccMail by MAIL2.MCP.COM (IMA Internet Exchange 3.0 Enterprise) id 003C3F22; Thu, 21 May 98 12:39:14 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 12:38:08 -0400 Message-ID: <003C3F22.eval@mcp.com> Subject: RE: LDP transisitons To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk As far as where the LDP should be located - why not check into working with the FSF or OSI (or another organization like those)? They are certainly distribution neutral and are a logical place for users to look to for free information. My company would be willing to help out any way we can - with funding, helping to update content, etc., to ensure the LDP remains a free source of great information. (I saw it mentioned in more than a few messages that HOW-TO's aren't always updated in a timely fashion.) -- Jeff Koch Executive Editor, Que Publishing 201 W. 103rd Street, Indianapolis IN 46290 email: jkoch@mcp.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Tim - HOWTO Coordinator > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 1999 9:07 PM > To: ldp-l@linux.org.au > Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org > Subject: Re: LDP transisitons > > > > > > Tim - HOWTO Coordinator writes: > > > I don't think that the Debian is the best and not one that I would > > > *prefer*. I didn't say accept (besides it's not my call) but I'd > > > like to steer away from taking sides on distributions, > etc. Just my > > > thoughts, some may strongly disagree or think it good. > Speak up and > > > be heard. > > > > Well, I don't think that just because the box would be *hosted* by > > Debian necessarily means that there is any implied Debian > slant to the > > whole thing. I agree with Tim that the LDP should be distribution > I don't think that anything would be assumed, just puts it/us in a > situation that me be a little uncomfortable at some point in time. > Perhaps I am wrong. > > > > independant. (Actually, my problem is that there is too much RedHat > > stuff in the LDP documents right now, but I guess that's natural, > > since it's the most popular distribution right now. Anyhow, I > > wouldn't hypocritically suppose that Debian slant is any better > > implicitly than *any* slant.) > I agree with the comments on RedHat, but I suppose the more > users of this > distro, the more docs we'll see, which all-in-all I guess is > what we're > here for, right?? > > > cvs.ldp.org an IP on the box, or some such. I don't really see how > > hosting the LDP on a system run by the Debian project would > negatively > > impact the purported distribution-neutrality of the LDP. Just like > > the current LDP web site isn't "metalab" slanted, is it? > No, I didn't mean anything derogatory (sp?) by that. And > besides, metalab > isn't distro specific, which was my only point. > > > I have no *intention* to "pollute" or de-neutralize the LDP. Geeze. > > You'd think Debian was a big capital-rich, aggressive > corporation, eh? > Ok, so it's a mis-communication, but I was never accusing you > of this. ;) > > > > I only am here as an advisor, a kibbitzer, and a volunteer. I don't > > even have a "vote". I have no particular stand or duties. > In fact, my > > only qualification is a rich knowledge of SGML/DocBook, a love of > > Makefiles and documentation, and the fact that I helped > setup the DDP > > area, which is remarkably similar in structure to Lar's proposed LDP > > CVS area . > And it's all greatly appreciate....trust me. Never bites the > hand that > feeds ya. ;) > > > Best Regards, > Tim > > -- > Linux HOWTO coordinator > tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) > tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) > tbynum@rineco.com (Work) > http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) > > D I P C > The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the > easy way! > http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact > listmaster@lists.debian.org > > From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id UAA17474 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 20:22:57 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id GAA05142 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 06:22:53 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id EAA07352 for ldp-l-list; Fri, 21 May 1999 04:11:50 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org (k3nw120.dial.kabelfoon.nl [195.193.24.120]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA07348 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 04:10:55 +0800 Received: from bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org (bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org [192.168.100.254]) by bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA02500; Thu, 20 May 1999 22:10:49 +0200 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 22:10:48 +0200 (CEST) From: Hugo van der Kooij X-Sender: hvdkooij@bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org To: ldp-l@linux.org.au cc: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: Couple of suggestions In-Reply-To: <199905200736.AAA20736@ezwebhost.com> Message-ID: X-URL: http://www.caiw.nl/~hvdkooij/ X-Loop: Hugo.van.der.Kooij@caiw.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On Thu, 20 May 1999, Mr. Poet wrote: > > On Wed, 19 May 1999, Mr. Poet wrote: > > > > > 1. I think we as authors/maintainers should be able to charge a fee > > > for the right to publish in a commercial printed format. I believe that > > > we should never charge for any electronically available text and I > > > believe that the LDP should always be free. > > > > Sounds nice but how do you distribute the compensation? And how do you > > split up? Or must a publisher contact each LDP author independently? > > I believe that the person that should get compensated is the > individual who maintains it... That way it is simple for the company > that is trying to reproduce it commercially. They don't have track > down everybody... They just ask the Author/Maintainer how much > they want. So if there a 100 authors working hard on documents and one person just keeping things in sync then this one person should get the money? Sounds like a regular rip-off to those 100 authors. But I may misinterpretate your answer. > > Perhaps a general rule should be added that any document that is not been > > worked on for 2 years becomes unmaintained so the coordinator can save > > himself a lot of time as he won't be chasing ghosts in trying to find the > > author. > > I think it should be less, the technology changes so fast that 2 > years is really obsolete... If a document is written well a lot of it still is valid. > P.S. Didn't we just get a IPCHAINS Howto Update... Maybe I am > dense but isn't that the actual Firewall Howto now? There is still quite a difference between an actual Firewall howto and the ipchains howto. Hugo. -- Hugo van der Kooij; Oranje Nassaustraat 16; 3155 VJ Maasland hvdkooij@caiw.nl http://www.caiw.nl/~hvdkooij/ -------------------------------------------------------------- Use of any of my email addresses for unsollicited (commercial) email is a clear intrusion of my privacy and illegal! From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id DAA19564 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 03:51:35 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id NAA05665 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 13:51:31 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id LAA17314 for ldp-l-list; Fri, 21 May 1999 11:42:09 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from astor.interport.net (astor.interport.net [199.184.165.18]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id LAA17310 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 11:41:59 +0800 Received: from burrito (mail@ts1port5.port.net [207.38.248.5]) by astor.interport.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA14217; Thu, 20 May 1999 23:43:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from arroz.fake [192.168.33.5] (mail) by burrito with esmtp (Exim 2.11 #1 (Debian)) id 10kgBx-0005k7-00; Thu, 20 May 1999 23:41:49 -0400 Received: from apharris by arroz.fake with local (Exim 2.11 #1 (Debian)) id 10kgK5-0000Xz-00; Thu, 20 May 1999 23:50:13 -0400 To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Couple of suggestions References: <199905200222.TAA16795@ezwebhost.com> <19990519180344.C679@barberouge.linux.lmm.com> From: Adam Di Carlo Date: 20 May 1999 23:50:13 -0400 In-Reply-To: Guylhem Aznar's message of "Wed, 19 May 1999 18:03:44 +0200" Message-ID: Lines: 32 User-Agent: Gnus/5.070084 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.84) Emacs/20.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk > > 2. I also think that we should switch to DOCBOOK > > Without me once again. > > We should stick to sgml unless a majority of authors want to switch to > DOCBOOK, else many authors will leave. Uh, DocBook *is* SGML. (Actually, there is a DocBook/XML if anyone cares -- I think DocBook SGML is the way to go though.) > We should also have DOCBOOK examples, conversion script and tools. There's actually a dearth of good DocBook examples, unfortunately, which is a shame. DocBook has almost 300 tags and is very complex. However, it is possible to *subset* DocBook (using the same stylesheets and still having valid DocBook in the process). Likewise, you can *extend* DocBook as well (we do this at my company, onShore, for the purposes of doing Functional Requirements documents). Anyhow, even if you don't subset or superset DocBook, you are going to want to whip up a "style guide". As for conversion, included with SGMLtools v2 (which is just DocBook with some front-ends for SGML processing), is a LinuxDoc -> DocBook tag transformation stylesheet written in DSSSL. It has some problems but its a good 80% solution right now, and I'm sure it can be brought up to 95% with not too much work. -- .....Adam Di Carlo....adam@onShore.com..... From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id FAA20047 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 05:36:54 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id PAA05702 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 15:36:48 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id NAA18149 for ldp-l-list; Fri, 21 May 1999 13:22:40 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org (k3nw120.dial.kabelfoon.nl [195.193.24.120]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id NAA18124 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 13:22:25 +0800 Received: from bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org (bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org [192.168.100.254]) by bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA27767; Fri, 21 May 1999 07:22:20 +0200 Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 07:22:15 +0200 (CEST) From: Hugo van der Kooij X-Sender: hvdkooij@bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org To: ldp-l@linux.org.au cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org, ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: Couple of suggestions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-URL: http://www.caiw.nl/~hvdkooij/ X-Loop: Hugo.van.der.Kooij@caiw.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On 20 May 1999, Adam Di Carlo wrote: > > > > 2. I also think that we should switch to DOCBOOK > > > > Without me once again. > > > > We should stick to sgml unless a majority of authors want to switch to > > DOCBOOK, else many authors will leave. > > Uh, DocBook *is* SGML. (Actually, there is a DocBook/XML if anyone > cares -- I think DocBook SGML is the way to go though.) Both linuxdoc and docbook are SGML but somehow linuxdoc is (in my not so humble opinion) a poorly designed DTD. > > > We should also have DOCBOOK examples, conversion script and tools. > > There's actually a dearth of good DocBook examples, unfortunately, > which is a shame. DocBook has almost 300 tags and is very complex. DocBook SGML isn't complex. It just allows you to make it very complex. > However, it is possible to *subset* DocBook (using the same > stylesheets and still having valid DocBook in the process). Likewise, > you can *extend* DocBook as well (we do this at my company, onShore, > for the purposes of doing Functional Requirements documents). > > Anyhow, even if you don't subset or superset DocBook, you are going to > want to whip up a "style guide". > > As for conversion, included with SGMLtools v2 (which is just DocBook > with some front-ends for SGML processing), is a LinuxDoc -> DocBook > tag transformation stylesheet written in DSSSL. It has some problems > but its a good 80% solution right now, and I'm sure it can be brought > up to 95% with not too much work. The bad score is to be contributed to the loose design of linuxdoc. Not the tool. If people wrote a more strict version of the documents the conversion wouldn't be so painfull. And linuxdoc is too restrictive and at times even plain ackware about those tags. Hugo. -- Hugo van der Kooij; Oranje Nassaustraat 16; 3155 VJ Maasland hvdkooij@caiw.nl http://www.caiw.nl/~hvdkooij/ -------------------------------------------------------------- Use of any of my email addresses for unsollicited (commercial) email is a clear intrusion of my privacy and illegal! From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id QAA23068 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 16:26:24 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA07310 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 02:26:19 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id XAA22479 for ldp-l-list; Fri, 21 May 1999 23:45:42 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from mailsvr.basit.com (mailsvr.basit.com [128.209.2.13]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id XAA22473 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 23:45:35 +0800 Received: from lethe.basit.com (lethe [128.209.35.21]) by mailsvr.basit.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17334 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 11:44:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from fawcett@localhost) by lethe.basit.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id LAA08321; Fri, 21 May 1999 11:42:56 -0400 (EDT) To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: DocBook HOWTO examples? From: Tom Fawcett Date: 21 May 1999 11:42:54 -0400 Message-ID: <8jemka5szl.fsf@basit.com> Lines: 8 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.45/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Are there any good examples of HOWTOs using DocBook? I downloaded a few of the recently updated HOWTOs but they still used Linuxdoc. I'm aware of the automatic translations but I'd rather see how a human does it. Is there still a reason to bother doing a DocBook translation? -Tom From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id RAA23339 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 17:17:31 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id DAA07339 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 03:17:27 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id BAA23025 for ldp-l-list; Sat, 22 May 1999 01:02:43 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from lafn.org (lafn.ORG [206.117.18.1]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id BAA23020 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 01:02:39 +0800 Received: by lafn.org id AA05373 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ldp-l@linux.org.au); Fri, 21 May 1999 10:02:28 -0700 Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 10:02:28 -0700 Message-Id: <199905211702.AA05373@lafn.org> From: bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer) To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: HOWTO Coordinator Reply-To: bf347@lafn.org Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk I just checked Metalab and found that no HOWTOs have been uploaded this month. I emailed Tim Bynum 4 updated HOWTOs on Monday, May 17 since he said he needed them by then for an upload. Another problem is that the text versions have an excessive number of blank lines. This is a bug in the sgml software but one may easily fix it by using the cat -s command. This should be included in the makefile or the like so that text files at Metalab look OK. This problem has been mentioned before but never fixed. I think we need an assistant HOWTO coordinator, or perhaps a co-cordinator. With two persons doing it, things would be more likely to still get done if one of the persons gets sick, goes on vacation, resigns, etc. It might be a good idea to do the same for the LDP webmaster position at Metalab -- Dave Lawyer From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id TAA31000 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 19:40:55 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id FAA09719 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 05:40:51 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id DAA13209 for ldp-l-list; Sun, 23 May 1999 03:31:45 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from lafn.org (lafn.ORG [206.117.18.1]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id DAA13205 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 03:31:41 +0800 Received: by lafn.org id AA14961 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ldp-l@linux.org.au); Sat, 22 May 1999 12:31:30 -0700 Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 12:31:30 -0700 Message-Id: <199905221931.AA14961@lafn.org> From: bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer) To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: HOWTO Coordinator Reply-To: bf347@lafn.org Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk >David Lawyer wrote: >> Another problem is that the >> text versions have an excessive number of blank lines. This is a bug in >> the sgml software but one may easily fix it by using the cat -s command. >> This should be included in the makefile or the like so that text files at >> Metalab look OK. This problem has been mentioned before but never fixed. Tim Bynum wrote: >As for the text problem, yes this is true and on my list of things to >fix, but here's the catch. Fixes like these sometimes warrant me getting >complaints from folks that mirror the docs as nothing is actually updated. >Granted, it's probably b/c their scripts kind of bite, but none-the-less >I hear about it. I'll take care of these this weekend in that I'm doing >lots of "Spring Cleaning" and contact info updates. Good. The LDP mirror sites don't mirror the text documents. They only have a couple of html pointers to the directories at Metalab that contain the actual documents. So these mirror sites shouldn't complain. I hope that you keep the dates of the text files unchanged by the use of touch -d "original_date" or the like. This might be put in a script. Since only the formatting is being changed the dates shouldn't be changed > if I'm not doing a good job and hurting the HOWTOs then oust me. I want Tim to stay on as HOWTO coordinator but I would like to see a backup person for all key positions. This person should do some of the work in order to become familiar with the situation. Thus in addition to Tim I think there should be either an assistant coordinator or a co-coordinator. -- Dave Lawyer From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id VAA31430 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 21:19:53 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id HAA12963 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 07:19:49 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id FAA13778 for ldp-l-list; Sun, 23 May 1999 05:09:21 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from astor.interport.net (astor.interport.net [199.184.165.18]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id FAA13774 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 05:09:16 +0800 Received: from burrito (mail@arcts1p24.port.net [207.237.110.24]) by astor.interport.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA26877; Sat, 22 May 1999 17:10:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from apharris by burrito with local (Exim 2.11 #1 (Debian)) id 10lJ11-0000va-00; Sat, 22 May 1999 17:09:07 -0400 To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: My opinion References: <199905202318.QAA03968@ezwebhost.com> <19990520122533.A2301@barberouge.linux.lmm.com> <199905211735.KAA17726@ezwebhost.com> <19990521124549.A403@barberouge.linux.lmm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: Adam Di Carlo Date: 22 May 1999 17:09:06 -0400 In-Reply-To: Guylhem Aznar's message of "Fri, 21 May 1999 12:45:49 +0200" Message-ID: Lines: 61 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.45/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk >>>>> "guylhem" == Guylhem Aznar writes: guylhem> First : I don't think making commercial printouts pay is a guylhem> philosophical debate but the most important point : I don't guylhem> want this to happen. guylhem> This is *incompatible* with free software. Here here. I fully agree. I mean, it's all well and good to tolerate print-restricted licenses when a document, such as a book, is completely paid for. However, for the LDP, this isn't good enough. LDP manuals should be fully free, as in DFSG free (or OSD free if you prefer). Believe me, if non-free licenses are allowed and encouraged in the LDP, the LDP itself will fork, and others will put their effort towards completely free documentation. I don't think anyone wants to see this wasteful duplication. guylhem> 1/ Short term improvements guylhem> - include distribution and processor specific HOWTOs in the guylhem> LDP (Debian-Installation-HOWTO, RedHat-Installation-HOWTO, guylhem> Sparc-Installation-HOWTO, LinuxPPC-Installation-HOWTO...) for guylhem> people who don't buy "official books". Personally, I don't understand the overlap between the Installation HOWTO and the Debian or RedHat manuals. For instance, for myself (the maintainer of Debian's Installation Manual), the prospect of trying to merge and update the Install Manual with the HOWTO is exhausting and not worth my time. I would rather that the Installation HOWTO, if it exists at all, simply contain a pointer to the location of the Debian Install Manual . guylhem> - tighter collaboration with locals LDP (German, Spanish...) guylhem> ; add pointers to local official pages and LDP official page guylhem> in each LDP related site I think this goes far enough. I think the LDP should provide tools and active help for translator to both keep translations up-to-date, coordinately amongst translators, and provide space for them to distribute translations in progress and final translations. This is more inline with my notion that a shared CVS area could be employed for this. English documentation should pull out language-independant data (i.e., URLs, charts, figures) and allow all translated copies to directly use this data (i.e., separate SGML entity files). guylhem> - closer work with GNU to provide manual pages and better guylhem> documentation browsers (xman is not *that* good) and maybe guylhem> decide together a new common format for GNU/Linux guylhem> documentation They use texinfo format. I know of no SGML/texinfo tools except a SGML formatter by the name of 'sdc'. I think the LDP has to wait for GNU to move to SGML or XML, if they ever do (they may never do that). -- .....Adam Di Carlo....adam@onShore.com..... From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id WAA31712 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 22:23:46 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id IAA13038 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 08:23:42 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id GAA13935 for ldp-l-list; Sun, 23 May 1999 06:13:52 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from astor.interport.net (astor.interport.net [199.184.165.18]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id GAA13931 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 06:13:44 +0800 Received: from burrito (mail@arcts1p24.port.net [207.237.110.24]) by astor.interport.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA07194; Sat, 22 May 1999 18:15:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from apharris by burrito with local (Exim 2.11 #1 (Debian)) id 10lK1R-00013Z-00; Sat, 22 May 1999 18:13:37 -0400 To: ldp-l@linux.org.au, ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: My opinion References: <199905202318.QAA03968@ezwebhost.com> <19990520122533.A2301@barberouge.linux.lmm.com> <199905211735.KAA17726@ezwebhost.com> <19990521124549.A403@barberouge.linux.lmm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: Adam Di Carlo Date: 22 May 1999 18:13:37 -0400 In-Reply-To: Adam Di Carlo's message of "22 May 1999 17:09:06 -0400" Message-ID: Lines: 12 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.45/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk >>>>> "adam" == Adam Di Carlo writes: adam> I would rather that the Installation HOWTO, if it exists at all, adam> simply contain a pointer to the location of the Debian Install adam> Manual . Sorry, I misspoke. I meant "... the Debian Section of the Installation HOWTO", not "... the Installation HOWTO". Obviously, the Installation HOWTO is about more than any one distribution. -- .....Adam Di Carlo....adam@onShore.com..... From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id PAA13919 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 15:59:13 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA02245 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 01:59:06 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id XAA24628 for ldp-l-list; Sun, 23 May 1999 23:16:09 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from mailserv.caiw.nl (mailserv.caiw.nl [194.178.9.133]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id XAA24623 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 23:15:56 +0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by mailserv.caiw.nl (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA10951; Sun, 23 May 1999 17:15:29 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from k3nw120.dial.kabelfoon.nl(195.193.24.120), claiming to be "bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org" via SMTP by mailserv.caiw.nl, id smtpdAAAa10937; Sun, 23 May 1999 17:15:24 +0200 Received: from bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org (bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org [192.168.100.254]) by bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA19806; Sun, 23 May 1999 17:14:39 +0200 Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 17:14:29 +0200 (CEST) From: Hugo van der Kooij X-Sender: hvdkooij@bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org To: ldp-l@linux.org.au, ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Subject: Howto documents with broken url's Message-ID: X-URL: http://www.caiw.nl/~hvdkooij/ X-Loop: Hugo.van.der.Kooij@caiw.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Hi, I just like to warn all LDP authors that some of the LDP documents (noticably the HOWTO's) have broken URL's. This is mainly caused by using an inproper format. You should NOT use: my.site.org/my/document.html But you MUST use: http://my.site.org/my/document.html The first one is simply an incomplete URL and wil generaly result in an URL like: http://www.ldp.org/howto/hardware/my.site.org/my/document.html Will all of you go about and verify you do not have any such broken URL in the document that you maintain? Hugo. -- Hugo van der Kooij; Oranje Nassaustraat 16; 3155 VJ Maasland hvdkooij@caiw.nl http://www.caiw.nl/~hvdkooij/ -------------------------------------------------------------- Use of any of my email addresses for unsollicited (commercial) email is a clear intrusion of my privacy and illegal! From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id QAA14115 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 16:40:35 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA02596 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 02:40:31 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id AAA25064 for ldp-l-list; Mon, 24 May 1999 00:26:46 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from doughnut.remcomp.fr (alpha-dummy.remcomp.fr [194.51.30.245]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id AAA25060 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 00:26:35 +0800 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by lmm.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with UUCP id RAA06190 for ldp-l@linux.org.au; Sun, 23 May 1999 17:33:40 +0200 Received: from guylhem by barberouge.linux.lmm.com with local (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10lWbI-0000jY-00; Sun, 23 May 1999 13:39:28 +0200 Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 13:39:28 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: ldp-l@linux.org.au, ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Subject: CVS server Message-ID: <19990523133928.A2125@barberouge.linux.lmm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Lars could find an host for our CVS server ; ldp module has been created on http://cvs.on.openprojects.net/ We need to write a page to explain how to use it ; I can write it by the first week of june. All LDP authors can get a CVS account there, but it would be better if we could provide Rob a mail listing all the accounts. Please mail my your login+password, I will send a listing to Rob. -- ____/| Q: What do monsters eat? What do monsters drink? \ o.O| A: Things. Coke. (Because Things go better with Coke.) =(_)= ______ Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca ______ \u/ ¯¯¯¯¯¯ Au travail/At work: guylhem-pager \@/ oeil.qc.ca ¯¯¯¯¯¯ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id QAA14190 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 16:54:19 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA02630 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 02:54:17 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id AAA25319 for ldp-l-list; Mon, 24 May 1999 00:45:13 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from nigel.redhat.com (IDENT:root@adsl-77-240-160.rdu.bellsouth.net [216.77.240.160]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA25314 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 00:45:08 +0800 Received: from nigel.redhat.com (johnsonm@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nigel.redhat.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA30636; Sun, 23 May 1999 12:44:58 -0400 Message-Id: <199905231644.MAA30636@nigel.redhat.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 To: ldp-l@linux.org.au, ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org From: "Michael K. Johnson" Subject: Re: Couple of suggestions In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 19 May 1999 18:03:44 +0200." <19990519180344.C679@barberouge.linux.lmm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 12:44:57 -0400 Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Guylhem Aznar writes: >On Wed, May 19, 1999 at 07:19:23PM -0700, Mr. Poet wrote: >> 1. I think we as authors/maintainers should be able to charge a fee >> for the right to publish in a commercial printed format. I believe that > >This would mess up the whole "free software" idea !!!! And, in fact, violate the LDP manifesto. The position of the LDP has been since the beginning that everyone in the world is free to charge for their documentation, but it has to be free to publishers in order to be included under the LDP moniker. If you don't want your docs to be free to publishers to publish, please don't apply the "LDP" label to your documentation. Guylhem is right. And, as one of the three founders of the LDP, and the founder of the "Linux Manual Project" that proceeded the LDP, I claim the right to make this statement "ex cathedra". michaelkjohnson "Ever wonder why the SAME PEOPLE make up ALL the conspiracy theories?" From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id WAA15742 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 22:39:01 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id IAA03010 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 08:38:58 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id GAA26668 for ldp-l-list; Mon, 24 May 1999 06:30:00 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from astor.interport.net (astor.interport.net [199.184.165.18]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id GAA26664 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 06:29:55 +0800 Received: from burrito (mail@ts1port17.port.net [207.38.248.17]) by astor.interport.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA04090; Sun, 23 May 1999 18:31:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from apharris by burrito with local (Exim 2.11 #1 (Debian)) id 10lgkb-0004SA-00; Sun, 23 May 1999 18:29:45 -0400 To: ldp-l@linux.org.au, ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: CVS server References: <199905231744.KAA01864@ezwebhost.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: Adam Di Carlo Date: 23 May 1999 18:29:45 -0400 In-Reply-To: "Mr. Poet"'s message of "Sun, 23 May 1999 10:39:14 -0700" Message-ID: Lines: 20 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.45/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Poet" == Poet writes: Poet> Hello, This has become unneccessary. Tim has provided automation Poet> to his posting and you can get an FTP account to the repository Poet> that allows you to put your SGML up. I don't think this little bit of infrastructure really makes CVS "unneccessary". CVS is definately better suited for a "bazzar"-style development methodology, where there is more than one author, or the author wants to give out pre-release access. I think CVS is also good for sharing infrastructure, such as Makefiles or SGML entities, which may not be practical using any other system. In summary, FTP is fine for just delivering data, but CVS provides a whole source control system and potentialities for intra-document sharing. -- .....Adam Di Carlo....adam@onShore.com..... From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA16283 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 00:31:54 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id KAA03106 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 10:31:49 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id IAA27199 for ldp-l-list; Mon, 24 May 1999 08:20:42 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from wallybox.cei.net (tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net [204.180.109.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id IAA27195 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 08:20:36 +0800 Received: from localhost (tjbynum@localhost) by wallybox.cei.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id TAA05894; Sun, 23 May 1999 19:11:52 -0500 Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 19:11:52 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim - HOWTO Coordinator To: ldp-l@linux.org.au cc: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: CVS server In-Reply-To: <199905231744.KAA01864@ezwebhost.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Hi, > This has become unneccessary. Tim has provided automation to > his posting and you can get an FTP account to the repository that > allows you to put your SGML up. Thanks poet, this is correct. Just contact me and I'll eithe set up user/passes for everyone or I can also grab them (the sgml source) from another site if you prefer. > If there is more than 3 documents in the repository the script does > an autoupdate if there is less than 3 it waits until Sunday. > > As Tim has said, "He is back in full force". Yes, but this has got little to *no* response, which is nothing new. I've tried to get folks involved in the past and have asked for input, but this never seems to gain much if any of a response, but let my uploads fall behind, and there nor shortage of email directed towards me. Granted I'm not perfect, and have never claimed to be the savior when it comes to mini's and HOWTOs. I do require input, as this is *not* my project. To demand replies seems a little harsh and I would never do such a thing, but they'd certainly be nice. Yeah, even the good ones. I've got plenty more to say about the above, but it really seems pointless and there's enough rambling going on w/out my $.02 and I honestly don't believe it does much good to point out nothing but faults and none of the good. No spilt milk here, I'm just gonna keep plugging away. Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA16909 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 02:44:54 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id MAA03321 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 12:44:50 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id KAA03806 for ldp-l-list; Mon, 24 May 1999 10:27:26 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from wallybox.cei.net (tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net [204.180.109.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id KAA03802 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 10:27:09 +0800 Received: from localhost (tjbynum@localhost) by wallybox.cei.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id VAA06457; Sun, 23 May 1999 21:18:24 -0500 Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 21:18:24 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim - HOWTO Coordinator To: ldp-l@linux.org.au cc: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: CVS server In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Hi, > > I'd rather that people with good ideas just got on > > and implemented them > > Yes. Not if it only duplicates something or hinders progress. I'm all for folks getting involved, but people just taking matters into their own hands is not exactly what we're after, or is it?? > > I don't know how the authors of non-HOWTO bits > > What are you thinking of? > Let us start treating HOWTO and mini-HOWTO in the same way > immediately. This is one issue that I brought up before, and no one really responded to any great length, but those that did stated that mini's are mini's and HOWTOs are HOWTOs. This still seems to be the case and when the warrant HOWTO status, they are moved from mini's. I don't think that mini's should be looked down upon, and I'd be the first to state that they (at least the bulk of them) should be included in any HOWTO published works. > It is also useful to have subject categories, but probably > that has to be a separate tree with links, or an index file, or so. This is currently being done and is housed in a file (a "head" file) that is kept for each mini and HOWTO. Again I go back to how things are done and the reasons for this that no one really seems to know and/or care about. Change is *not* good just for the sake of change, but I am not being heard and I feel that things will continue on the course that they are on. As this may be true, I will continue to point these things out and perhaps someone will at some point listen to what it is that I'm saying and logically come to the conclusion that aside from some of the delays, there happens to be something in place that happens to function quite well. If it's CVS you want, then please use it, but does anybody have any idea how these works actually arive at metalab? If you've seen some of my posts then you do, if not then you're probably fairly clueless. Housing the processed docs at metalab seems to be fine to me, and why it is that this just *has* to change is a little beyond me..... Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA16958 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 02:55:21 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id MAA03333 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 12:55:18 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id KAA03888 for ldp-l-list; Mon, 24 May 1999 10:40:37 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from wallybox.cei.net (tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net [204.180.109.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id KAA03884 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 10:40:19 +0800 Received: from localhost (tjbynum@localhost) by wallybox.cei.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id VAA06505; Sun, 23 May 1999 21:31:15 -0500 Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 21:31:15 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim - HOWTO Coordinator To: ldp-l@linux.org.au cc: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: CVS server In-Reply-To: <199905240101.SAA08116@ezwebhost.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Hello, > As stated before -- Everyone knows ftp... even a 100% Windows > user can use FTP. Not everyone in the future of the LDP will be as > technically savvy as you or I. Agreed. > This is just a scenario but I think you get my point. I think CVS is > excellent and if their are some authors who would like to utilize to > help keep track of their own projects, great but for the LDP as a > whole I think it is a bad standardization. If some of the authors want to utilize CVS, then go for it. No one is saying this isn't a good idea and I can just as easily grab the source from a CVS server as I could from my box and/or via an ftpget or something somewhere else. Making everyone use CVS doesn't give us much room for compromise. This has always been one thing that I tried to do and that is get the sources however I can. Email, ftp, http, I don't care, if it makes it easier not to send it via email, then that's cool, you tell me and I'll take care of the rest. Granted it can't be this way for everyone (all being different) and/or forever, but I don't have a problem meeting someone halfway when needed. Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA17286 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 04:08:03 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id OAA03388 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 14:08:00 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id LAA04549 for ldp-l-list; Mon, 24 May 1999 11:48:47 +0800 Received: from inf.ufrgs.br (caracol.inf.ufrgs.br [143.54.11.7]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id LAA04545 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 11:48:40 +0800 Received: from doncarlo.inf.ufrgs.br (itapua [143.54.9.20]) by inf.ufrgs.br (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA06226 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 00:45:01 -0300 (EST) Received: from localhost (casantos@localhost) by doncarlo.inf.ufrgs.br (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA02502 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 03:06:55 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: doncarlo.inf.ufrgs.br: casantos owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 03:06:55 +0000 (GMT) From: Carlos A M dos Santos To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: Info and RTF: dead or alive? In-Reply-To: <199905202102.PVH29027@zebra.alphacdc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk [ Could the list administrator configure majordomo replace the "reply-to" field to ? ] On Thu, 20 May 1999, Vern Hoxie wrote: > On Thu, 20 May 1999, Carlos A M dos Santos wrote: > > > BTW, I made lots of fixes and enhancements in the current groff/txt, > > HTML and LaTeX backends, including > > deletion ... > > > I think that if we will keep using LinuxDoc for a while, it would be > > useful to release a fixed version, but I don't have whom to send them to, > > since the package is unmaintained at the moment. > > I would like to look it over but I doubt my skills at being able to > competently produce a working product. That is, I might be able to > contribute but I don't want to be an official maintainer. I realy don't need another maintainer. After fighting against the SGMLtools 1.0.x bugs for so much time, now I finaly understand how it works (and how it sometimes does not :-). What I want to say is that I can start releasing fixes now, but before doing that I want to know is what is the *oficial* position of the coordinator and perhaps the rest of the group, because I will not spend my time doing something that will not be used. BTW, I have big problems with SGMLtools 2.0. I know almost nothing about XML, DSSL Jade, JadeTeX, etcetera and the "package" lacks for documentation and examples. I also don't have time to dig for the information on the 'net, cause I have other things to do. The 1.0 at least has documentation. All of you may feel that I advocate for LinuxDoc, against DocBook. Yes I do, because at least it can produce a decently formated text-only document. > Can you tell me how/where I can pick up a copy of what you have. My > own internet connection is a dial-up which allows only incoming ftp. > I do have access to an ftp directory where I can post packages for > access by others but it won't permit incoming ftp connections. I will manage to leave it available in my homepage. Please wait some days, because I need to work in my MS thesis and the only free time available is at the late hours and weekends [my wife wants to kill me]. Casantos (fighting against dangling fingers and poor English). From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id GAA18137 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 06:36:25 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id QAA03597 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 16:36:06 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id OAA05475 for ldp-l-list; Mon, 24 May 1999 14:08:49 +0800 Received: from inf.ufrgs.br (caracol.inf.ufrgs.br [143.54.11.7]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id OAA05466 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 14:08:37 +0800 Received: from doncarlo.inf.ufrgs.br (itapua [143.54.9.20]) by inf.ufrgs.br (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA07628 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 03:04:58 -0300 (EST) Received: from localhost (casantos@localhost) by doncarlo.inf.ufrgs.br (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA02788 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 06:06:27 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: doncarlo.inf.ufrgs.br: casantos owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 06:06:27 +0000 (GMT) From: Carlos A M dos Santos To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: Couple of suggestions In-Reply-To: <199905202318.QAA03968@ezwebhost.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On Thu, 20 May 1999, Mr. Poet wrote: > > On Wed, May 19, 1999 at 07:19:23PM -0700, Mr. Poet wrote: > > > 1. I think we as authors/maintainers should be able to charge a fee > > > for the right to publish in a commercial printed format. I believe that > > > > This would mess up the whole "free software" idea !!!! > > I am sorry I don't buy it. I agree with free software. I also agree > with free documentation. That is why I stated the charge would be for > "Documents that were printed for commercial distribution". Nobody will agree in pay a charge for to distribute printed versions of a document that anyone will be alowed to reproduce using a photocopyer. Publishers pay authors to get the exclusive right over the book. LDP is not a business, it is a volunteer effort to provide free documentation to free software. > Electronic distribution would always be free, as would printouts from > a computer or printouts for commercial use. What is the diference? If a publisher sells 10000 exemplars of his magazine, each one with a CD containing free software it will be almost the same thing. The only difference is that electronic media is much cheaper than printed media. ---8<--- > > But *we should not* force them, I mean free software should come with > > free documentation. > > It does... and always will... Realy? Show me a realy good, complete and *free* manual of Perl or Tcl. > > > 2. I also think that we should switch to DOCBOOK > > > > Without me once again. > > > > We should stick to sgml unless a majority of authors want to switch to > > DOCBOOK, else many authors will leave. I think you mean LinuxDoc. I agree. > > Ahh it was my understanding that DOCBOOK is SGML... or I should say a > DTD of SGML.... Yes, DocBook is a DTD, but I don't see SGMLtools 2.x as a usable tool for everyone now. Ok, Debian has all that nice packages, but we need something to be used by hundreds of people, not SGML experts. Soon or later, off course, we will have all the documentation and examples, and, I insist, a good text only output. Then we will be able to move. ---8<-- > > 4/ Cooperation with non English LDP is essential, we should set up a set > > of common rules between all LDP translations (German, French, Italians, > > Spanish, Japanese...) to ensure end users will know where to look for > > documentation in their language, and will successfully find it. > > I also agree with this I think we need a general I18N-HOWTO, merging parts of the Keyboard and Console, German, French, XFree86, and many others. It could also include the datails about each distribution. This would simplify writing the NLS datails for each language. > > 5/ We should have more authors (many nice FAQs or documents could become > > plain HOWTOs) and more quality, maybe with a QC group which would read > > the HOWTOs and look for mistakes, typos... > > > > I can also agree with this... however we also need a way to entice > more authors... Not everyone is as passionate about doing things for > free as others. Some people need incentive... Do you think Redhat > would put all the effort into this that they do if they didn't make > the 20 million they did last year? I think not. Making 20 million does mean they did goot things, just means that they are now playing into the field of corporations. The name of the game is capitalism and the rule is "make money" not "make good things" [1]. I don't do this for money, I never did and never will do. I need money to pay my accounts, and buy the things I need to live. And money is not always the best reward [2]. > > 6/ Finally, we should have a short list of LDP compatible license, for > > example GPL, LGPL, LDPL, BSD, ARTISTIC... to avoid documents with > > commercial alike licenses. > > By taking away the right of the author to set his license you are > breaking the entire idea behind the whole thing which is freedom. Nobody here is "taking away the right". Any author has the right to do anything with he wants to the documents he write, but if he want do contribute to the LDP he must agree with the LDP license, because this is the only way to keep the entire project free, and alive. People do many bad things for money. In business this is just "play the game by the rules". Our game is not that game and so our rules should not be the same. I agree that it takes a big effort to write good documentation and if we could get the necessary funds to pay somebody to work full-time on writing a manual or book, this would be good, provided that the resulting document was *free*. > Someone should have the right to make or use free software just as > someone should have the right to make or use non-free software. > Anything less is hypocritical. The LDP license does not prohibits from make or use non-free software. The point here is that there is no more-or-less-free software (or documentation) as well as there is no more-or-less pregnancy. Anything more is hypocritical. Casantos (going bed). --- Footnotes (I love footnotes :-) [1] Jamie Zawinski. "resignation and postmortem" (or "nomo zilla"). http://www.jwz.org/gruntle/nomo.html [2] Alfie Kohn. "Studies Find Reward Often No Motivator". http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/motivation.html From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id HAA18387 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 07:23:18 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id RAA03688 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 17:23:15 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id OAA05800 for ldp-l-list; Mon, 24 May 1999 14:50:47 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from mail.wol.dk (mail01s.image.dk [212.54.64.152]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id OAA05796 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 14:50:38 +0800 Received: (qmail 25645 invoked by uid 0); 24 May 1999 06:50:23 -0000 Received: from 47.ppp1-15.image.dk (HELO hafnium.nkbj.dk) (212.54.76.175) by mail010.image.dk with SMTP; 24 May 1999 06:50:23 -0000 Received: from localhost (hafnium.nkbj.dk [127.0.0.1]) by hafnium.nkbj.dk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA00636 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 08:49:03 +0200 Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 08:49:03 +0200 (CEST) From: Niels Kristian Bech Jensen X-Sender: nkbj@hafnium.nkbj.dk To: Linux Documentation Project Subject: NLS-HOWTO (Was: Re: Couple of suggestions) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On Mon, 24 May 1999, Carlos A M dos Santos wrote: > I think we need a general I18N-HOWTO, merging parts of the Keyboard and > Console, German, French, XFree86, and many others. It could also include > the datails about each distribution. This would simplify writing the NLS > datails for each language. > I'm planning to give Danish-HOWTO (despite the name it's written in English) a long overdue overhaul during the next six months. My idea is to provide hints for setting up NLS in each of the major distributions (at least the newest versions of Red Hat, Debian, SuSE and Slackware.) To develop this into a generic NLS-HOWTO, I'll need input from you about what should be included in such a document. I'm willing to act as an editor and put the pieces together from various sources (when I get over the planning stages, I'll ask for input from a wider audience.) -- Niels Kristian Bech Jensen -- nkbj@image.dk -- http://www.image.dk/~nkbj/ ----------->> Stop software piracy --- use free software! <<----------- From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA18910 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 09:17:57 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id TAA03771 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 19:17:53 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id QAA06691 for ldp-l-list; Mon, 24 May 1999 16:58:43 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from mailserv.caiw.nl (mailserv.caiw.nl [194.178.9.133]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id QAA06686 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 16:58:35 +0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by mailserv.caiw.nl (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA06154; Mon, 24 May 1999 10:58:06 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from k3nw120.dial.kabelfoon.nl(195.193.24.120), claiming to be "bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org" via SMTP by mailserv.caiw.nl, id smtpdAAAa06127; Mon, 24 May 1999 10:58:02 +0200 Received: from bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org (bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org [192.168.100.254]) by bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA02007; Mon, 24 May 1999 10:57:21 +0200 Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 10:57:20 +0200 (CEST) From: Hugo van der Kooij X-Sender: hvdkooij@bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org To: ldp-l@linux.org.au, ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Subject: Status of HOWTO's? Message-ID: X-URL: http://www.caiw.nl/~hvdkooij/ X-Loop: Hugo.van.der.Kooij@caiw.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Hi, Among all the discussions back and forth I am still missing a few things that could make the life of any coordinitor a bit more pleasant. 1. Howto maintainers should keep the maintainer up to date with their address info. This info should also be in the howto itself. 2. Now if the address is no longer correct and the author does not fix this in 6 weeks the document should be moved to unmaintained. (It's not fair to make the coordinator a bounty hunter.) So if the author fails the coodinator has the right to call it unmaintained and a new volunteer should be allowed to pick up the pieces and continue. Also the howto howto is incorrect or there is something funny as I don't see any postings while the howto actually states: :HOWTOs are also posted towards the beginning of the month to the Usenet :newsgroup comp.os.linux.answers. There is a tool called NewstoHOWTO that :will assemble the postings. Then ther is the issue of docbook versus linuxdoc. The team around the SGMLtools has declared the sgmltools v1 old and unmaintained. So if the following paragraph still holds this means that the LDP has committed itself to use SGMLtools v2 and should use docbook: :If you are writing a HOWTO, you must use the SGML-Tools package, :available from http://www.sgmltools.org/, to format the HOWTO. This :package allows us to produce LaTeX (for DVI and PostScript), plain text, :and HTML from a single source document, and was designed specifically for :the HOWTOs. This also gives all of the HOWTOs a uniform look. It is very :important that you format and review the output of the formatting in :PostScript, plain text and HTML. The howto is out of sync on this issue and a clearification/update is badly needed. (Do mind that the SGMLtools website is out of sync as well!) Hugo. -- Hugo van der Kooij; Oranje Nassaustraat 16; 3155 VJ Maasland hvdkooij@caiw.nl http://www.caiw.nl/~hvdkooij/ -------------------------------------------------------------- Use of any of my email addresses for unsollicited (commercial) email is a clear intrusion of my privacy and illegal! From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id MAA19765 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 12:19:51 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id WAA04839 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 22:19:47 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id UAA08683 for ldp-l-list; Mon, 24 May 1999 20:01:19 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from nigel.redhat.com (IDENT:root@adsl-77-240-160.rdu.bellsouth.net [216.77.240.160]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id UAA08679 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 20:01:13 +0800 Received: from nigel.redhat.com (johnsonm@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nigel.redhat.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA32334 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 08:01:00 -0400 Message-Id: <199905241201.IAA32334@nigel.redhat.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 To: ldp-l@linux.org.au From: "Michael K. Johnson" Subject: Re: CVS server In-reply-to: Your message of "23 May 1999 23:56:29 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 08:01:00 -0400 Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Adam Di Carlo writes: >I suggest you keep the non-free stuff separated into it's own tree, >i.e., ldp/non-free/....k If it's non-free, it doesn't belong in an LDP CVS archive at all. That makes keeping the non-free stuff separated quite easy... michaelkjohnson "Ever wonder why the SAME PEOPLE make up ALL the conspiracy theories?" From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id NAA20064 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 13:26:46 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id XAA04895 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 23:26:40 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id VAA09267 for ldp-l-list; Mon, 24 May 1999 21:01:11 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from wallybox.cei.net (tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net [204.180.109.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id VAA09263 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 21:01:04 +0800 Received: from localhost (tjbynum@localhost) by wallybox.cei.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id HAA10333; Mon, 24 May 1999 07:52:28 -0500 Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 07:52:27 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim - HOWTO Coordinator To: ldp-l@linux.org.au cc: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Subject: sgmltools In-Reply-To: <19990524123822.A8100@zen.ics.uwe.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Hi, I'd like to make a suggestion. I have a lot more to say on the subject, but I'd like to just make a comment or two and then I'll make more this evening, but this should at least get the ball rolling. If the concensu is *not* to move towards DOCBOOK at this point then obviously we'll have to pick up the support of sgmltools and the linuxdoc DTD. This is how it was done in the past and may *not* be such a bad idea. I'd like to help if the rest of you feel that this is worthwhile. I'd also like to see all of us using the same version of sgmltools, which would also include LaTex, etc. Does this seem like something that may be feasible??? Possibly putting together our own complete package? If not, then I'd like to at least see all of using the same sgmltools if it's not too much to ask. Comments/Suggestions?????????? Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id OAA20261 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 14:07:42 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA04959 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 00:07:39 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id VAA09871 for ldp-l-list; Mon, 24 May 1999 21:54:40 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from mailserv.caiw.nl (mailserv.caiw.nl [194.178.9.133]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id VAA09866 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 21:54:35 +0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by mailserv.caiw.nl (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA12270; Mon, 24 May 1999 15:53:54 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from k3nw120.dial.kabelfoon.nl(195.193.24.120), claiming to be "bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org" via SMTP by mailserv.caiw.nl, id smtpdAAAa12250; Mon, 24 May 1999 15:53:47 +0200 Received: from bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org (bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org [192.168.100.254]) by bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA15492; Mon, 24 May 1999 15:53:03 +0200 Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 15:53:02 +0200 (CEST) From: Hugo van der Kooij X-Sender: hvdkooij@bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org To: ldp-l@linux.org.au cc: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: sgmltools In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-URL: http://www.caiw.nl/~hvdkooij/ X-Loop: Hugo.van.der.Kooij@caiw.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On Mon, 24 May 1999, Tim - HOWTO Coordinator wrote: > If the concensu is *not* to move towards DOCBOOK at this point then > obviously we'll have to pick up the support of sgmltools and the linuxdoc > DTD. This is how it was done in the past and may *not* be such a bad > idea. I'd like to help if the rest of you feel that this is worthwhile. > I'd also like to see all of us using the same version of sgmltools, which > would also include LaTex, etc. Does this seem like something that may be > feasible??? I am all against. I do think we should forsake linuxdoc now and move on to a real document standard. Hugo. -- Hugo van der Kooij; Oranje Nassaustraat 16; 3155 VJ Maasland hvdkooij@caiw.nl http://www.caiw.nl/~hvdkooij/ -------------------------------------------------------------- Use of any of my email addresses for unsollicited (commercial) email is a clear intrusion of my privacy and illegal! From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id OAA20466 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 14:53:13 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA04998 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 00:53:10 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id WAA10467 for ldp-l-list; Mon, 24 May 1999 22:37:11 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from wallybox.cei.net (tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net [204.180.109.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id WAA10463 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 22:37:02 +0800 Received: from localhost (tjbynum@localhost) by wallybox.cei.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA11211; Mon, 24 May 1999 09:28:24 -0500 Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 09:28:23 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim - HOWTO Coordinator To: ldp-l@linux.org.au cc: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: sgmltools In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Hello, > I am all against. I do think we should forsake linuxdoc now and move on to > a real document standard. Ok, we've got one against. How about the rest of you. I do know that DOCBOOK does give us more flexibility and that it's much easier for published work(s). Perhaps this should be considered? I'm simply trying to toss out ideas, and obviously the majority will end up with the last call as far as the DTD is ocncerned. I've been away from the sgmltools list for quite some time, but still have it all archived. Perhaps it's time to open up the folder to find out where things are again. Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id RAA21373 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 17:54:28 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id DAA05567 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 03:54:23 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id BAA11654 for ldp-l-list; Tue, 25 May 1999 01:39:29 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from buster.bfr.co.il (root@morannon.bfr.co.il [192.116.142.129]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA11650 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 01:39:23 +0800 Received: from vermis.bfr.co.il (vermis.bfr.co.il [128.253.154.43]) by buster.bfr.co.il (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA16064 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 20:38:56 +0300 Received: (from abel@localhost) by vermis.bfr.co.il (8.9.3/8.8.5) id UAA19562; Mon, 24 May 1999 20:38:56 +0300 To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: NLS-HOWTO (Was: Re: Couple of suggestions) References: <19990524121211.A948@barberouge.linux.lmm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: abel@bfr.co.il (Alexander L. Belikoff) Date: 24 May 1999 20:38:56 +0300 In-Reply-To: Guylhem Aznar's message of "Mon, 24 May 1999 12:12:11 +0200" Message-ID: Lines: 42 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.45/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Guylhem Aznar writes: > On Mon, May 24, 1999 at 08:49:03AM +0200, Niels Kristian Bech Jensen wrote: > > To develop this into a generic NLS-HOWTO, I'll need input from you about > > what should be included in such a document. I'm willing to act as an > > editor and put the pieces together from various sources (when I get over > > the planning stages, I'll ask for input from a wider audience.) > > I think a generic NLS-HOWTO in english and national HOWTOs > (Spanish-HOWTO in Spanish :-) would be a plus. > > National HOWTOs authors could suggest parts to be added to the > NLS-HOWTO. I had considered something similar in the past and I had come to conclusion, that such an approach wouldn't help much. - Different programs have different language support implementations as well as different levels of it. - Each language has some complications. Russian uses Cyrillic alphabet, which requires a separate codeset (Russian has 4 of them, each having its own niche) and its own fonts unlike the "European" languages. Hebrew requires RtoL. Japanese needs both writing direction management and input methods. - I realized, that the problem is not in poor documentation, yet in poor NLS support in UNIX in general. It's damn annoying to have a bunch of assorted NLS methods in each and every application, like the X, TeX, word processors etc. Things will be easier to a user only after the standardization of a unified general NLS API in UNIX. - Finally, the idea of "Spanish-HOWTO in Spanish" doesn't look very good to me. That would create an "chicken and egg" problem. My point is: software NLS configuration should be a sysadmin's task. For an average user, either everything should be in place by default, or one should be able to speak English well enough to tweak the O/S. -- Alexander L. Belikoff Bloomberg L.P. / BFM Financial Research Ltd. abel@vallinor4.com, abel@bfr.co.il From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id RAA21381 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 17:54:50 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id DAA05578 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 03:54:46 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id BAA11619 for ldp-l-list; Tue, 25 May 1999 01:26:57 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from wallybox.cei.net (tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net [204.180.109.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA11615 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 01:26:48 +0800 Received: from localhost (tjbynum@localhost) by wallybox.cei.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA12109; Mon, 24 May 1999 12:18:26 -0500 Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 12:18:25 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim - HOWTO Coordinator To: ldp-l@linux.org.au cc: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: Status of HOWTO's? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Hello, > 1. Howto maintainers should keep the maintainer up to date with their > address info. This info should also be in the howto itself. Yes. As stated I've been doing some "Spring Cleaning" and I'll be asking for updated information. Just give me another day before sending me anything. I'll post something in the next couple of days and will try to automate this to some degree as far as updating the information. > 2. Now if the address is no longer correct and the author does not fix > this in 6 weeks the document should be moved to unmaintained. (It's > not fair to make the coordinator a bounty hunter.) So if the author > fails the coodinator has the right to call it unmaintained and a new > volunteer should be allowed to pick up the pieces and continue. I agree with some of this. I believe this issue just came up with an author complaining about me not updating his address, I had wished that the info would have been found in the HOWTO, but it was not. None-the-less it was corrected. > Then ther is the issue of docbook versus linuxdoc. The team around the > SGMLtools has declared the sgmltools v1 old and unmaintained. So if the > following paragraph still holds this means that the LDP has committed > itself to use SGMLtools v2 and should use docbook: This will be addressed when some sort of concensus is reached or I'll just go it on my own to make one. > :If you are writing a HOWTO, you must use the SGML-Tools package, > :available from http://www.sgmltools.org/, to format the HOWTO. This > :package allows us to produce LaTeX (for DVI and PostScript), plain text, > :and HTML from a single source document, and was designed specifically for > :the HOWTOs. This also gives all of the HOWTOs a uniform look. It is very > :important that you format and review the output of the formatting in > :PostScript, plain text and HTML. > > The howto is out of sync on this issue and a clearification/update is > badly needed. (Do mind that the SGMLtools website is out of sync as well!) And continues to be. I'll do what I can. I'm at work, so it's kind of hard for me to get too in depth, but you will be hearing a lot from me w/in the next couple of weeks. Like it or not. ;) Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id SAA21586 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 18:28:56 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA05699 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 04:28:52 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id CAA11906 for ldp-l-list; Tue, 25 May 1999 02:12:56 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from auratek.auroratech.com (auratek.auroratech.com [199.105.157.129]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA11902 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 02:12:51 +0800 Received: from auroratech.com (IDENT:markk@wayga [199.105.157.164]) by auratek.auroratech.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA12768; Mon, 24 May 1999 14:12:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3749969C.118B5EDC@auroratech.com> Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 14:12:44 -0400 From: Mark Komarinski X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.34 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ldp-l@linux.org.au CC: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: CVS server (getting ridiculous) References: <199905231744.KAA01864@ezwebhost.com>; from Mr. Poet on Sun, May 23, 1999 at 10:39:14AM -0700 <199905241754.KAA22346@ezwebhost.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk "Mr. Poet" wrote: > > > On Sun, May 23, 1999 at 10:39:14AM -0700, Mr. Poet wrote: > > > This has become unneccessary. > > > > LDP is *NOT* HOWTOs. > > I never suggested otherwise... All I was saying is that CVS may > not be the best solution to standardize on. I think we all need to > relax a little and remember what were here for. Creating > documentation for Linux. CVS will be just fine, as long as there's enough documentation to show how to use it. Perhaps an LDP-HOWTO explaining the tools and perhaps going step-by-step in building a HOWTO is in order? If there's sufficient interest, I'll head this up. I just don't know all the tools. Let's face it, anyone writing a HOWTO is going to have to have access to Linux, meaning they have access to CVS. Not to mention the fact that CVS runs on just about any UNIX. I also believe there's CVS for Win32. -Mark -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Carlo Gavazzi IPC | Mark F. Komarinski - Compatibility Engineer| 176 Second Ave | mfk@auroratech.com - www.auroratech.com | Waltham, MA 02451 USA | Ph: 781-290-4800 x138 Fx: 781-290-5358 | From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id SAA21596 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 18:30:04 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA05710 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 04:30:00 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id CAA11942 for ldp-l-list; Tue, 25 May 1999 02:19:06 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from wallybox.cei.net (tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net [204.180.109.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA11938 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 02:19:00 +0800 Received: from localhost (tjbynum@localhost) by wallybox.cei.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id NAA12327; Mon, 24 May 1999 13:10:39 -0500 Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 13:10:38 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim - HOWTO Coordinator To: ldp-l@linux.org.au cc: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: CVS server In-Reply-To: <19990524120413.E873@barberouge.linux.lmm.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Hi, > LDP is *NOT* HOWTOs. Correct. > HOWTOs are a part of the LDP, authors can use the cvs server if they want to. agreed. My only concern to any of this has only been that I'm made aware of who's doing what so that I can make provisions if need be on my side to gather up the works. ;) > (for the howtos) For any of the LDP works. I house them all on my box excluding the web pages of course, which is Greg Hankin's baby. Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id SAA21762 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 18:59:27 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA05795 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 04:59:23 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id CAA12471 for ldp-l-list; Tue, 25 May 1999 02:47:14 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from wallybox.cei.net (tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net [204.180.109.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA12179 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 02:47:08 +0800 Received: from localhost (tjbynum@localhost) by wallybox.cei.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id NAA12494; Mon, 24 May 1999 13:38:42 -0500 Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 13:38:42 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim - HOWTO Coordinator To: ldp-l@linux.org.au cc: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: Status of HOWTO's? In-Reply-To: <19990524191818.G10379@zen.ics.uwe.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk > >This info should also be in the howto itself. > > No. No way. There are too many weird people out there on the > Internet. Possibly some of them are even weirder than I am, and quite > probably more dangerous, and I have no wish to make it that easy for > them to find out where I live. Especially when they've just toasted > their system by failing to read the ELF-HOWTO correctly ... *ehehehehe* I was *only* referring to email addresses, nothing physical. I kind of enjoy my privacy as well. ;) Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id TAA21775 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 19:00:35 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id FAA05809 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 05:00:31 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id CAA18020 for ldp-l-list; Tue, 25 May 1999 02:48:25 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from mailserv.caiw.nl (mailserv.caiw.nl [194.178.9.133]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA17560 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 02:48:19 +0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by mailserv.caiw.nl (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA21793; Mon, 24 May 1999 20:46:39 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from k3nw120.dial.kabelfoon.nl(195.193.24.120), claiming to be "bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org" via SMTP by mailserv.caiw.nl, id smtpdAAAb21746; Mon, 24 May 1999 20:46:26 +0200 Received: from bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org (bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org [192.168.100.254]) by bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA28363; Mon, 24 May 1999 20:45:38 +0200 Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 20:45:36 +0200 (CEST) From: Hugo van der Kooij X-Sender: hvdkooij@bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org To: ldp-l@linux.org.au cc: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: sgmltools In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-URL: http://www.caiw.nl/~hvdkooij/ X-Loop: Hugo.van.der.Kooij@caiw.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On Mon, 24 May 1999, Carlos A M dos Santos wrote: > On Mon, 24 May 1999, Tim - HOWTO Coordinator wrote: > > > This is how it was done in the past and may *not* be such a bad > > idea. I'd like to help if the rest of you feel that this is worthwhile. > > I'd also like to see all of us using the same version of sgmltools, which > > would also include LaTex, etc. Does this seem like something that may be > > feasible??? > > This is feasible. I can take the maintenance of LinuxDoc and release a > fixed version 1.0.10 next week, but the official SGMLtoos site is out of > my control. I can leave it my homepage at LinUSP (http://linusp.usp.br/) > and negotiate a virtual domain with the site administrator. Site maintainance will propably land in my lap. (As I happen to be root on that system.) Before you call it sgmltools v1.0.10 I think there must be some more clarification. The sgmltools 1.0 series is unmaintained. Now using the code is no problem but telling people 1.0 is unmaintained while some one else is actually maintaing it will definitly cause confusement. If the consensus is to continue with linuxdoc. Then some consensus must be found regarding the tools. As maintaing two streams under the same name is unacceptable. Hugo. -- Hugo van der Kooij; Oranje Nassaustraat 16; 3155 VJ Maasland hvdkooij@caiw.nl http://www.caiw.nl/~hvdkooij/ -------------------------------------------------------------- Use of any of my email addresses for unsollicited (commercial) email is a clear intrusion of my privacy and illegal! From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id TAA22055 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 19:55:29 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id FAA05918 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 05:55:25 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id DAA20302 for ldp-l-list; Tue, 25 May 1999 03:44:51 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from mailserv.caiw.nl (mailserv.caiw.nl [194.178.9.133]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id DAA20298 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 03:44:46 +0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by mailserv.caiw.nl (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA00333; Mon, 24 May 1999 21:44:19 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from k3nw120.dial.kabelfoon.nl(195.193.24.120), claiming to be "bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org" via SMTP by mailserv.caiw.nl, id smtpdAAAa00264; Mon, 24 May 1999 21:44:07 +0200 Received: from bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org (bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org [192.168.100.254]) by bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA30957; Mon, 24 May 1999 21:43:17 +0200 Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 21:43:16 +0200 (CEST) From: Hugo van der Kooij X-Sender: hvdkooij@bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org To: ldp-l@linux.org.au cc: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: CVS server (getting ridiculous) In-Reply-To: <3749969C.118B5EDC@auroratech.com> Message-ID: X-URL: http://www.caiw.nl/~hvdkooij/ X-Loop: Hugo.van.der.Kooij@caiw.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On Mon, 24 May 1999, Mark Komarinski wrote: > "Mr. Poet" wrote: > > > > > On Sun, May 23, 1999 at 10:39:14AM -0700, Mr. Poet wrote: > > > > This has become unneccessary. > > > > > > LDP is *NOT* HOWTOs. > > > > I never suggested otherwise... All I was saying is that CVS may > > not be the best solution to standardize on. I think we all need to > > relax a little and remember what were here for. Creating > > documentation for Linux. > > CVS will be just fine, as long as there's enough documentation to show > how to use it. Perhaps an LDP-HOWTO explaining the tools and perhaps > going step-by-step in building a HOWTO is in order? If there's sufficient > interest, I'll head this up. I just don't know all the tools. > > Let's face it, anyone writing a HOWTO is going to have to have access > to Linux, meaning they have access to CVS. Not to mention the fact > that CVS runs on just about any UNIX. I also believe there's CVS for > Win32. The handling of HOWTO's is described in the Linux HOWTO Index http://ldp.nllgg.nl/HOWTO/HOWTO-INDEX.html (or any other mirror ;-) So if Tim does like to use the mail system and can keep documents up-to-date there is no need to change. However this will produce a single point of failure in case Tim takes a week off or so. Hugo. -- Hugo van der Kooij; Oranje Nassaustraat 16; 3155 VJ Maasland hvdkooij@caiw.nl http://www.caiw.nl/~hvdkooij/ -------------------------------------------------------------- Use of any of my email addresses for unsollicited (commercial) email is a clear intrusion of my privacy and illegal! From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id UAA22189 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 20:18:44 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id GAA05990 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 06:18:41 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id EAA20492 for ldp-l-list; Tue, 25 May 1999 04:09:09 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from wallybox.cei.net (tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net [204.180.109.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA20488 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 04:09:03 +0800 Received: from localhost (tjbynum@localhost) by wallybox.cei.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id PAA12862; Mon, 24 May 1999 15:00:45 -0500 Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 15:00:44 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim - HOWTO Coordinator To: ldp-l@linux.org.au cc: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: Status of HOWTO's? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Hi, > This is actually what I did regarding the firewall howto. But it seems Tim > has some private eye skills and is still looking for the previous > maintainer. :) Private eye skills...let's just say, I took a minute to do what I could. He's been in constant contact since. I just wanted to give him (as I'd do with anyone else) a fair shake at continued mainteneance of the doc. In this case, it payed off. I'm not this lucky most of the time. ;) Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id FAA25121 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 05:54:58 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id PAA07161 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 15:54:55 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id NAA24387 for ldp-l-list; Tue, 25 May 1999 13:42:41 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from mailserv.caiw.nl (mailserv.caiw.nl [194.178.9.133]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id NAA24383 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 13:42:37 +0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by mailserv.caiw.nl (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA20992; Tue, 25 May 1999 07:42:13 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from k3nw120.dial.kabelfoon.nl(195.193.24.120), claiming to be "bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org" via SMTP by mailserv.caiw.nl, id smtpdAAAa20987; Tue, 25 May 1999 07:42:11 +0200 Received: from bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org (bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org [192.168.100.254]) by bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA25539; Tue, 25 May 1999 07:41:34 +0200 Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 07:41:34 +0200 (CEST) From: Hugo van der Kooij X-Sender: hvdkooij@bastion.nl3155vj16.vanderkooij.org To: ldp-l@linux.org.au cc: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: sgmltools In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-URL: http://www.caiw.nl/~hvdkooij/ X-Loop: Hugo.van.der.Kooij@caiw.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On Mon, 24 May 1999, Carlos A M dos Santos wrote: > On Mon, 24 May 1999, Hugo van der Kooij wrote: > > > Site maintainance will propably land in my lap. (As I happen to be > > root on that system.) > > Ok. > > > Before you call it sgmltools v1.0.10 I think there must be some more > > clarification. The sgmltools 1.0 series is unmaintained. Now using the > > code is no problem but telling people 1.0 is unmaintained while some one > > else is actually maintaing it will definitly cause confusement. > > This was the main reason why I refrained from realease any public patch > before, although I sent them to two persons. You may remember that I sent > a message to the sgml-tools list and none of the developers manifested > interest in patches for 1.0.x. > > > If the consensus is to continue with linuxdoc. Then some consensus must be > > found regarding the tools. As maintaing two streams under the same name is > > unacceptable. > > Well, could simply move it to "re-maintained" status :-) and stand that > 1.0.x is the stable and production version, while 2.0 is the development > version. Can't do. As 2.x is declared production and 1.0 obsolete for the plain difference of linuxdoc vs docbook. Hugo. -- Hugo van der Kooij; Oranje Nassaustraat 16; 3155 VJ Maasland hvdkooij@caiw.nl http://www.caiw.nl/~hvdkooij/ -------------------------------------------------------------- Use of any of my email addresses for unsollicited (commercial) email is a clear intrusion of my privacy and illegal! From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:44 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA26160 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 09:14:57 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id TAA07284 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 19:14:47 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id QAA25948 for ldp-l-list; Tue, 25 May 1999 16:49:18 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from lafn.org (lafn.ORG [206.117.18.1]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id QAA25944 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 16:49:14 +0800 Received: by lafn.org id AA00818 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ldp-l@linux.org.au); Tue, 25 May 1999 01:48:17 -0700 Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 01:48:17 -0700 Message-Id: <199905250848.AA00818@lafn.org> From: bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer) To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: automating email, docbook Reply-To: bf347@lafn.org Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk The script Lars wrote automates the processing of HOWTOs received via email. Since email is the lowest common denominator as far as submitting HOWTOs are concerned, I think that improvement of this is something which could be easily done. I suggest that Tim look over this script and see if it (or something equivalent) can be used. Guylhem also had an interest in this and I would like to see him as either an assistant HOWTO coordinator (or as co-coordinator). I don't have outgoing ftp so the only way for me to send in HOWTOs is via email. Another HOWTO maintainer recently mentioned that he is in the same predicament. What about using both docbook and linuxdoc for LDP HOWTOs? This could continue for a number of years until (hopefully) most everyone has voluntarily switched to docbook (or a simplified subset of docbook). I too want to see the text output of docbook fixed before allowing it. -- Dave Lawyer From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id IAA32708 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 08:30:14 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id SAA09721 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 18:30:11 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id QAA14563 for ldp-l-list; Wed, 26 May 1999 16:08:42 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from mx03.uni-tuebingen.de (mx03.uni-tuebingen.de [134.2.3.13]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id QAA14544 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 16:08:01 +0800 Received: from zxmgv07.extern.uni-tuebingen.de (root@zxmgv07.extern.uni-tuebingen.de [172.16.21.12]) by mx03.uni-tuebingen.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA11091; Wed, 26 May 1999 10:07:06 +0200 Received: (from will@localhost) by zxmgv07.extern.uni-tuebingen.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA00398; Wed, 26 May 1999 10:07:24 +0200 Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 10:07:24 +0200 From: Michael Will To: ldp-l@linux.org.au, ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Where do we go from here? Message-ID: <19990526100724.A373@student.uni-tuebingen.de> Mail-Followup-To: ldp-l@linux.org.au, ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk > > Beyond this, how do we go about selecting a new leader? I feel > What about a public agreement on the lists ? I publicly agree with you ;-) guylhem go for it. Cheers, Michael Will From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id SAA02992 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 18:18:02 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA11513 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 04:17:58 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id CAA20401 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 27 May 1999 02:01:36 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from devserv.devel.redhat.com (IDENT:root@devserv.devel.redhat.com [207.175.42.156]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA20397 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 02:01:31 +0800 Received: from tristan.devel.redhat.com (root@tristan.devel.redhat.com [207.175.42.7]) by devserv.devel.redhat.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA21322 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 14:01:25 -0400 Received: from tristan.devel.redhat.com (IDENT:johnsonm@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tristan.devel.redhat.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA01552 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 14:01:24 -0400 Message-Id: <199905261801.OAA01552@tristan.devel.redhat.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 To: ldp-l@linux.org.au From: "Michael K. Johnson" Subject: Re: automating email, docbook In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 May 1999 12:53:45 +0200." <19990525125345.D3345@barberouge.linux.lmm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 14:01:23 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by digital.linux.org.au id CAA20398 Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Guylhem Aznar writes: >If a GNU standard appears, then we will use it. You might want to clarify or retract that... There is a GNU standard. It's Texinfo, and it sucks... docbook is an industry standard; the only recognized industry standard within the publishing business for SGML documents of which I am aware. I don't think it matters $0.02 what the FSF decides on for a format or markup language, we should choose the right one (with backwards compatibility for linuxdoc, of course, at least for a time) and run with it. docbook, whether in an SGML or XML representation, is the only seriously-maintained pure markup language definition out there. It's a bit verbose, but it only took writing one document with it to convince me that it's the right tool for the job. If there are real alternatives out there that I'm not familiar with, I'd like there to be concrete discussion about them here. So far, all I've seen is: o LaTeX/groff/etc We left that behind 5 years ago o SGML with linuxdoc DTD Simple, people know how to use it, not significantly maintained, hacked together in the beginning, does not support important features like tables, images, etc. o SGML/XML with docbook DTD Designed by people who know what they are doing, used extensively to build paper books, understood by multiple publishers, thus contributes to the LDP goal of providing paper documentation to the masses, supports all needed features, including cross-document indexing, supported by active development community, main problem is current bad text output (but that is fixable). If anyone has options beyond these that they want discussed, please bring them up here. On the other hand, if there's nothing new to be discussed, why discuss it? :-) michaelkjohnson "Magazines all too frequently lead to books and should be regarded by the prudent as the heavy petting of literature." -- Fran Lebowitz Linux Application Development http://www.redhat.com/~johnsonm/lad/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id VAA03775 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 21:09:21 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id HAA11823 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 07:09:18 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id EAA28821 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 27 May 1999 04:46:37 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from buster.bfr.co.il (root@morannon.bfr.co.il [192.116.142.129]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA28817 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 04:46:30 +0800 Received: from vermis.bfr.co.il (vermis.bfr.co.il [128.253.154.43]) by buster.bfr.co.il (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA29128 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 23:46:08 +0300 Received: (from abel@localhost) by vermis.bfr.co.il (8.9.3/8.8.5) id XAA04570; Wed, 26 May 1999 23:46:07 +0300 To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: NLS-HOWTO (Was: Re: Couple of suggestions) References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: abel@bfr.co.il (Alexander L. Belikoff) Date: 26 May 1999 23:46:07 +0300 In-Reply-To: Niels Kristian Bech Jensen's message of "Mon, 24 May 1999 19:59:14 +0200 (CEST)" Message-ID: Lines: 43 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.45/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Niels Kristian Bech Jensen writes: > On 24 May 1999, Alexander L. Belikoff wrote: > > [...] > > - Finally, the idea of "Spanish-HOWTO in Spanish" doesn't look very > > good to me. That would create an "chicken and egg" problem. My point > > is: software NLS configuration should be a sysadmin's task. For an > > average user, either everything should be in place by default, or > > one should be able to speak English well enough to tweak the O/S. > > > This was a valid point back when Unix was only used on big multiuser > systems. Today Linux (and *BSD) is used on many singleuser systems by all > sorts of people, many of which doesn't know English well enough to read it > at any technical level. Documentation in their native languages will help > further the spread of Linux to that type of users. There are two answers: a politically correct answer and a pragmatic one. The latter one says: I don't care, and I really don't. If a guy doesn't read English, then I think, _until_ there is a full documentation about the system in his native language, I don't want him to tweak anything inside. Too bad, one MUST speak English in order to at least understand what the heck that error message is about, let alone to read a manpage. After all, you wouldn't design a flight control panel to be the same as the one for a car just to allow people with driving experience to operate the A-310... Unfortunately, NLS setup is far from just clicking on a Control panel and selecting a language from a menu. It does require good knowledge of what is going on. Finally, having "native language" doc's would rule out all people that don't speak well the target language. Sounds insane, huh?.. Well, I am learning Japanese, and I need to configure my system to provide Japanese support. I am lightyears far from the stage when I'd be able to read kanji fluently and having the setup docs in Japanese would be a disaster. Insert your favorite language here... -- Alexander L. Belikoff Bloomberg L.P. / BFM Financial Research Ltd. abel@vallinor4.com, abel@bfr.co.il From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id QAA09241 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 16:14:23 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA14263 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 02:14:20 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id XAA06373 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 27 May 1999 23:44:37 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from buster.bfr.co.il (root@morannon.bfr.co.il [192.116.142.129]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id XAA06367 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 23:44:30 +0800 Received: from vermis.bfr.co.il (vermis.bfr.co.il [128.253.154.43]) by buster.bfr.co.il (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA07859 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 18:44:23 +0300 Received: (from abel@localhost) by vermis.bfr.co.il (8.9.3/8.8.5) id SAA06954; Thu, 27 May 1999 18:44:22 +0300 To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: NLS-HOWTO (Was: Re: Couple of suggestions) References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: abel@bfr.co.il (Alexander L. Belikoff) Date: 27 May 1999 18:44:22 +0300 In-Reply-To: Andries.Brouwer@cwi.nl's message of "Thu, 27 May 1999 00:23:43 +0200 (MET DST)" Message-ID: Lines: 31 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.45/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Andries.Brouwer@cwi.nl writes: > From: abel@bfr.co.il (Alexander L. Belikoff) > > If a guy doesn't read English, then I think, _until_ there is a full > documentation about the system in his native language, I don't want > him to tweak anything inside. Too bad, one MUST speak English in order > to at least understand what the heck that error message is about, let > alone to read a manpage. > > You are making several mistakes here. > > One of these is assuming that `reading English' is a yes-or-no matter. > Most people understand some English. But understanding and reading > speed is so much better in one's native language.. Just as I said before - by allowing documents to be in native languages, we are running into all kinds of "chicken and egg" problems. The advantages however are so doubtful to me, that they are not worth it - the language of the HOWTOs is hardly more difficult than of the manpages, which are supposed to be read by a person, performing the setup. And the final argument that didn't make it into my last letter: good SGML/PS/TEX/DVI/HTML support for HOWTOs in Russian, anyone? For Hebrew? For Japanese? -- Alexander L. Belikoff Bloomberg L.P. / BFM Financial Research Ltd. abel@vallinor4.com, abel@bfr.co.il From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id RAA09692 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 17:50:45 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id DAA14373 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 03:50:41 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id BAA07166 for ldp-l-list; Fri, 28 May 1999 01:34:42 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from buster.bfr.co.il (root@morannon.bfr.co.il [192.116.142.129]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA07162 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 01:34:36 +0800 Received: from vermis.bfr.co.il (vermis.bfr.co.il [128.253.154.43]) by buster.bfr.co.il (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA08681 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 20:34:31 +0300 Received: (from abel@localhost) by vermis.bfr.co.il (8.9.3/8.8.5) id UAA07160; Thu, 27 May 1999 20:34:31 +0300 To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: NLS-HOWTO (Was: Re: Couple of suggestions) References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: abel@bfr.co.il (Alexander L. Belikoff) Date: 27 May 1999 20:34:30 +0300 In-Reply-To: Andries.Brouwer@cwi.nl's message of "Thu, 27 May 1999 18:40:55 +0200 (MET DST)" Message-ID: Lines: 34 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.45/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Andries.Brouwer@cwi.nl writes: > > Just as I said before - by allowing documents to be in native > languages, we are running into all kinds of "chicken and egg" > problems. The advantages however are so doubtful to me, that they are > not worth it - the language of the HOWTOs is hardly more difficult > than of the manpages, which are supposed to be read by a person, > performing the setup. > > You prefer a foreign language above your native one? > Strange.., but indeed, some do, especially those who are fluent in English > and never have seen computer concepts discussed in their own language. I don't "prefer" one language over another (well, not fully correct - I *would* prefer to have Latin as a "common language", rather than English). I prefer keeping things simple. There is a common and fully supported language - English, no matter whether we like it or not. Having the core documentation in English is essential. If we have translations - great, but there should always be a common denominator. > > But let me assure you that not only HOWTOs, but also man pages > exist in translation. Also most utilities are willing to give > error messages in a number of languages. I know - yet I highly doubt that any person that doesn't speak English can survive in the Linux (or Windows, or whatever) environment... -- Alexander L. Belikoff Bloomberg L.P. / BFM Financial Research Ltd. abel@vallinor4.com, abel@bfr.co.il From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id TAA10111 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 19:20:49 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id FAA14470 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 05:20:45 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id DAA15365 for ldp-l-list; Fri, 28 May 1999 03:04:48 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from lafn.org (lafn.ORG [206.117.18.1]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id DAA15361 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 03:04:44 +0800 Received: by lafn.org id AA17315 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ldp-l@linux.org.au); Thu, 27 May 1999 12:04:27 -0700 Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 12:04:27 -0700 Message-Id: <199905271904.AA17315@lafn.org> From: bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer) To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: OSD and DFSG (License Requirements) are bad Reply-To: bf347@lafn.org Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Both the OSD (Open Source [tm] Definition) and DFSG (Debian Free Software Guidelines) are almost the same (OSD was obtained by mainly copying DFSG). They are both seriously flawed and contain loopholes. LDP should avoid them. I would like to quote what the leader of Debian (in Dec. 1998) Ian Jackson had to say about the DFSG: "DFSG1 is nothing more than a single gigantic loophole attached to a few requirements". He came out with DFSG2 which closed most of the loopholes. But at the Debian website ones still finds DFSG1 (aka just DFSG). Note that DFSG2 is completely different than DFSG1 and it's over twice as long. However, althought DFSG2 has closed loopholes, it prohibits any notification requiements if someone modifies your work and distributes it. I don't agree with this. If someone modified your HOWTO and then distributes it, you should at least be notified of what is going on (if you specify this in the license). As some of you may recall, I wrote several pages (in Sept. 1998) pointing out loopholes and ambiguities in OSD. Since DFSG is about the same, most (or all) of these apply to DFSG. However Ian Jackson et. al. discovered a major loophole that I didn't find. I hope to post a long message on more details in a few days (or perhaps a few shorter messages). Can someone tell me what happened to DFSG2 (aka DFSG-r1.4) ? As further evidence against them, certain software with both a patent clause and a termination clause has been claimed to be OSD compliant. This is the IBM Jikes License. I think there are some other examples of onerous licenses being OSD or DFSG compliant but I have only seen mention of this with no links to them. Thus LDP should use a modified DFSG2. It might be better to wait and see if Debian can get their act together and come out with better guidelines. -- Dave Lawyer From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id TAA10222 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 19:42:40 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id FAA14509 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 05:42:35 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id DAA15462 for ldp-l-list; Fri, 28 May 1999 03:29:40 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from sizif.mf.uni-lj.si (sizif.mf.uni-lj.si [193.2.69.15]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id DAA15458 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 03:29:29 +0800 Received: from localhost (peterlin@localhost) by sizif.mf.uni-lj.si with ESMTP (8.7.6/8.7.3) id VAA13723 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 21:29:24 +0200 (METDST) Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 21:29:24 +0200 (METDST) From: Primoz Peterlin X-Sender: peterlin@sizif.mf.uni-lj.si Reply-To: Primoz Peterlin To: Linux Documentation Project Subject: Re: NLS-HOWTO (Was: Re: Couple of suggestions) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On Thu, 27 May 1999, Alexander L. Belikoff wrote: > ... > I don't "prefer" one language over another (well, not fully correct - > I *would* prefer to have Latin as a "common language", rather than > English). I prefer keeping things simple. ... Aren't these last two statements in mutual contradiction? :-) (Yes, I have learned Latin for a couple of years). But back to the original Carlos' suggestion. This question springs up on this list with some regularity. In my archive of this list I have traced it back to August 1997. If you plan to cover only several major Western-European languages, then your plan is feasible. I believe Niels had the ambition to cover this area from the very beginning. But then, calling it I18N-HOWTO is a bit pretentious. I18N only gets interesting beyond the European borders. On the other hand, covering the complete I18N on Linux vastly exceeds the usual space alotted to a HOWTO document. Think of Hebrew, Chinese and Thai, each of them requiring its own character set. And soon, hopefully, some guy will come and say he has written some notes on how to use Linux with Yoruba, Gujarati or Oriya. The problem with the national HOWTOs is that they spend most of their space dealing with exceptions. This is probably mostly apparent to those of us using some character set other than ISO 8859-1, since system-level support is more scarce. I crave to see my Slovenian HOWTO reduced to a single line: ,,To obtain the complete support for Slovenian, please set the LANG variable to sl_SI.utf8``, but I don't believe I will see it in this millenium. Still, I do believe that ISO 10646/Unicode will bring in some neccessary generalizations. And having a HOWTO document covering all the ISO 8859-1 centered languages will help in the next stage, when we can use it as the core for a more general document. Best regards, Primoz -- Primo¾ Peterlin email: primoz.peterlin@biofiz.mf.uni-lj.si In¹titut za biofiziko MF, Lipièeva 2, SI-1000 Ljubljana, Slovenija Fax: +386-61-1315127 WWW: http://sizif.mf.uni-lj.si/~peterlin/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id VAA10621 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 21:10:58 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id HAA14732 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 07:10:55 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id FAA15859 for ldp-l-list; Fri, 28 May 1999 05:02:26 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from buster.bfr.co.il (root@morannon.bfr.co.il [192.116.142.129]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id FAA15855 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 05:02:21 +0800 Received: from vermis.bfr.co.il (vermis.bfr.co.il [128.253.154.43]) by buster.bfr.co.il (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA10354 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 00:02:08 +0300 Received: (from abel@localhost) by vermis.bfr.co.il (8.9.3/8.8.5) id AAA07532; Fri, 28 May 1999 00:02:04 +0300 To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: NLS-HOWTO (Was: Re: Couple of suggestions) References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: abel@bfr.co.il (Alexander L. Belikoff) Date: 28 May 1999 00:02:04 +0300 In-Reply-To: Andries.Brouwer@cwi.nl's message of "Thu, 27 May 1999 20:21:41 +0200 (MET DST)" Message-ID: Lines: 12 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.45/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Andries.Brouwer@cwi.nl writes: > You argue against translation - In no way I argued against translation! On the opposite - I'm *for* translations, *yet* I see a lot of drawbacks of having a master version in other language than English, while the advantages are tiny. -- Alexander L. Belikoff Bloomberg L.P. / BFM Financial Research Ltd. abel@vallinor4.com, abel@bfr.co.il From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id WAA11112 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 22:59:46 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id IAA14901 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 08:59:43 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id GAA16227 for ldp-l-list; Fri, 28 May 1999 06:47:03 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from cupido.cs.hut.fi (haitari.in.helsinki.fi [128.214.182.89]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id GAA16223 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 06:46:55 +0800 Received: from liw by cupido.cs.hut.fi with local (Exim 2.11 #1 (Debian)) for ldp-l@linux.org.au id 10n8sC-0000KG-00; Fri, 28 May 1999 01:43:36 +0300 Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 22:43:36 GMT Message-ID: From: Lars Wirzenius To: Subject: OSD and DFSG (License Requirements) are bad In-Reply-To: <199905271904.AA17315@lafn.org> Mail-Copies-To: never X-No-Archive: yes Reply-To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-md5"; boundary="130.233.193.44.9849.1240.927845015.620.900"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk This is a MIME message. --130.233.193.44.9849.1240.927845015.620.900 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This discussion should be moved to ldp-discuss. I'm setting Reply-To. The DFSG/OSD are good enough, even if imperfect. Their spirit is more important than legalistic hair splitting. Saying that we shouldn't use them is outright stupid as long as we have huge problems with freedom as it is. The fact that the LDP allows non-free (in the DFSG/OSD sense) documents is wrong. This must change, and the DFSG/OSD are quite good enough as meters of freedom. -- Stupid little mailer under construction, sorry for any problems. --130.233.193.44.9849.1240.927845015.620.900 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.6.3ia iQCVAwUBN03Kl4QRll5MupLRAQEPBgP/SnI12d2dZDF7HE6IUYhIpVNQgxZ+QiKa a+TKYgYJGM//JaypGv80OeEEyNnH98pQg9KfrxYo5ZvcMJcwKs1AWzKbkB/LuMGa il18BxoKRmq5DU9wKD7EKfS9jH/7igjvmF0Vg2dEAnbefB1aecS3GmHWDb4ylBoI epuNT1/gsiQ= =Qd+U -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --130.233.193.44.9849.1240.927845015.620.900-- This was a MIME message. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id XAA11141 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 23:04:33 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA14917 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 09:04:31 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id GAA16252 for ldp-l-list; Fri, 28 May 1999 06:53:54 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from cupido.cs.hut.fi (haitari.in.helsinki.fi [128.214.182.89]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id GAA16247 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 06:53:47 +0800 Received: from liw by cupido.cs.hut.fi with local (Exim 2.11 #1 (Debian)) for ldp-l@linux.org.au id 10n8yn-0000KM-00; Fri, 28 May 1999 01:50:25 +0300 Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 22:50:24 GMT Message-ID: From: Lars Wirzenius To: Reply-to: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: NLS-HOWTO (Was: Re: Couple of suggestions) In-Reply-To: Mail-Copies-To: never X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-md5"; boundary="130.233.193.44.9849.1240.927845424.312.19913"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk This is a MIME message. --130.233.193.44.9849.1240.927845424.312.19913 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable abel@bfr.co.il (Alexander L. Belikoff): > In no way I argued against translation! On the opposite - I'm *for* > translations, *yet* I see a lot of drawbacks of having a master > version in other language than English, while the advantages are tiny. It is of no practical or theoretical matter what language the master document is in, as long as the tools support it and there are willing translators. On the other hand, there are problems if the master document and its translations are out of sync. We need a system of keeping track of that. (As it happens, this works much better with CVS than ad hoc systems based on e-mail or FTP.) (Replies set to ldp-discuss.) -- Stupid little mailer under construction, sorry for any problems. --130.233.193.44.9849.1240.927845424.312.19913 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.6.3ia iQCVAwUBN03ML4QRll5MupLRAQFgHQQAxABd/GH+ja245d+eEngTihzkkDlaBmA+ K3xoQrjx2CwQTQW6IEZJjfdmU6SD9HSpgGjtR7RYpf4KYCkkovuMkG/3RXbruohM tkQuPr1FiXICMcd6EZtwebppLFVwTDmgc7L4jDErVWjrii/+11/QUwoOsvzSpr9U /5htw/t+Kn4= =azKc -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --130.233.193.44.9849.1240.927845424.312.19913-- This was a MIME message. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id TAA16562 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 19:06:08 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id FAA16849 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 05:06:05 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id CAA32189 for ldp-l-list; Sat, 29 May 1999 02:52:26 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from wallybox.cei.net (tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net [204.180.109.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA32185 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 02:52:19 +0800 Received: from localhost (tjbynum@localhost) by wallybox.cei.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id NAA03273 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 13:45:56 -0500 Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 13:45:55 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim - HOWTO Coordinator To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: My LDP Leader Nomination Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Hello, I would like to nominate Guylhem Aznar for LDP leadership. Please cast your nominations. Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id TAA16589 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 19:11:20 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id FAA16861 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 05:11:17 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id CAA32183 for ldp-l-list; Sat, 29 May 1999 02:51:43 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from wallybox.cei.net (tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net [204.180.109.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA32179 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 02:51:37 +0800 Received: from localhost (tjbynum@localhost) by wallybox.cei.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id NAA03252 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 13:45:03 -0500 Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 13:45:03 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim - HOWTO Coordinator To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: LDP Leader nominations Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Hello All, Well, it's beginning to drag and it's not what we're looking for, so it's time to make a decision. I propose that between now and Tuesday (June 1st) we make our nominations for the LDP leadership. I would not like to see pros/cons of one person over another. If you wish to speak out on why it is that you have nominated a certain individual, then please feel free, but please....no mud slinging. Politics just aren't my cup of tea, and this is no place for it. Any nominations received after midnight on the 1st will be scrapped. If everyone agrees then I also propose that we cast all votes for the nominations by Friday June 4th. I will compile a list of all nominations and make a few brief comments back to the list when all nominations are in. Any votes received after midnight on the 4th will also be scrapped. Whether this takes place on the ldp-l or ldp-discuss makes no difference to me. I find the 2 lists cumbersome at times (still see some cross-posting), but I'm sure they serve their purpose. All votes can be sent directly to the list and I will keep up with them. If you would like to post an anonymous vote, them email me directly at ldpvote@wallybox.cei.net or send me an alpha page at the address seen below. Sure, I'll see who you are if you email me, but that's as far as it will go. And besides it would be nice to know who you are to ensure that someone is not out there stacking the deck. :) I will create a web page so that you may view the results as they are posted. The status of these results will be located at: http://wallybox.cei.net/~tjbynum/LDP/ This will house both the nominations and the final results of the voting on a new leader. In the next few minutes I will post my vote to the list. Please use this to make your nominations. It would be nice to keep this all in one thread or at least use the same subject. Let's make this as quick and painless as possible. At the current rate nothing will get accomplished. Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id UAA16844 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 20:09:55 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id GAA16907 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 06:09:52 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id DAA32336 for ldp-l-list; Sat, 29 May 1999 03:53:21 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from morgana.systemy.it (jumpy.systemy.it [194.20.140.62]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id DAA32332 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 03:53:11 +0800 Received: (from rubini@localhost) by morgana.systemy.it (8.8.4/8.8.4) id VAA28661; Fri, 28 May 1999 21:53:00 +0200 Message-ID: <19990528215300.55155@morgana.systemy.it> Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 21:53:00 +0200 From: Alessandro Rubini To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: LDP Leader nominations Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1 Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk > If you would like to post an anonymous vote, them email me directly at > ldpvote@wallybox.cei.net While you collect anonymous votes maybe you should collect non-anonymous ones as well to avoid too much fuss in the list. Also, early public votes might influence later votes or discuourage voting if it *looks* like there is already agreement. To instantiate this problem, I vote for Guylhem :) /alessandro From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id UAA17050 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 20:51:36 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id GAA17110 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 06:51:32 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id EAA32527 for ldp-l-list; Sat, 29 May 1999 04:39:30 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from lafn.org (lafn.ORG [206.117.18.1]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id EAA32523 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 04:39:26 +0800 Received: by lafn.org id AA27844 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ldp-l@linux.org.au); Fri, 28 May 1999 13:39:10 -0700 Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 13:39:10 -0700 Message-Id: <199905282039.AA27844@lafn.org> From: bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer) To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Leader Vote Reply-To: bf347@lafn.org Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk I was going to propose that we continue without a leader but have Guylhem become a howto co-coodinator. Well, it's too late to propose this so I'll vote for Guylhem as leader. A major consideration is that he has a lot of time to devote to the LDP. While he sometimes is mistaken in what he says, he is also quick to correct his mistake once someone points it out. -- Dave Lawyer From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id LAA22022 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 11:27:13 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id VAA17808 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 21:27:09 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id TAA05469 for ldp-l-list; Sat, 29 May 1999 19:15:57 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from mx03.uni-tuebingen.de (mx03.uni-tuebingen.de [134.2.3.13]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id TAA05464 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 19:15:51 +0800 Received: from zxmgv07.extern.uni-tuebingen.de (root@zxmgv07.extern.uni-tuebingen.de [172.16.21.12]) by mx03.uni-tuebingen.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA26346 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 13:15:44 +0200 Received: (from will@localhost) by zxmgv07.extern.uni-tuebingen.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA00750 for ldp-l@linux.org.au; Sat, 29 May 1999 12:24:13 +0200 Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 12:24:12 +0200 From: Michael Will To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: Leader Vote Message-ID: <19990529122412.A694@student.uni-tuebingen.de> Mail-Followup-To: ldp-l@linux.org.au References: <199905282039.AA27844@lafn.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <199905282039.AA27844@lafn.org>; from David Lawyer on Fri, May 28, 1999 at 01:39:10PM -0700 Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk > I was going to propose that we continue without a leader but have Guylhem > become a howto co-coodinator. Well, it's too late to propose this so I'll > vote for Guylhem as leader. I second this. even though I would have prefered the co-coordination by Guylhem, if there is to be a leader, then I would prefer him. Michael Will From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id XAA08743 for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 23:34:19 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA25063 for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 09:34:12 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id HAA07798 for ldp-l-list; Mon, 31 May 1999 07:24:24 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from mailhost.plugged.net.au (IDENT:root@mailhost.plugged.net.au [203.20.51.20]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id HAA07794 for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 07:24:22 +0800 Received: from morris.staff.plugged.com.au (in.plugged.net.au [203.20.51.50]) by mailhost.plugged.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA08426 for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 09:24:10 +1000 Received: from lovelace.staff.plugged.com.au (dwood@lovelace.staff.plugged.com.au [192.168.20.61]) by morris.staff.plugged.com.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA30753 for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 09:24:09 +1000 From: David Wood Organization: Plugged In Software To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: My LDP Leader Nomination Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 09:23:47 +1000 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.17] Content-Type: text/plain References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <99053109240902.29878@lovelace.staff.plugged.com.au> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-KMail-Mark: Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On Sat, 29 May 1999, Tim wrote: > I would like to nominate Guylhem Aznar for LDP > leadership. Seconded. Regards, Dave ------------------------------------------------------------------ David Wood | Telephone: +61 7 3876 7140 mailto:dwood@plugged.net.au | Facsimile: +61 7 3876 7142 http://www.plugged.net.au | PGP Key available via finger ------------------------------------------------------------------ "It is only the last and wildest kind of courage that can stand on a tower before 10,000 people and tell them that twice two is four." - G.K. Chesterton From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id QAA13506 for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 16:57:55 GMT Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.62.135.40]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA26674 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 02:57:13 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id AAA17502 for ldp-l-list; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 00:32:26 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from lafn.org (lafn.ORG [206.117.18.1]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id AAA17497 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 00:32:23 +0800 Received: by lafn.org id AA17316 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ldp-l@linux.org.au); Mon, 31 May 1999 09:32:00 -0700 Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 09:32:00 -0700 Message-Id: <199905311632.AA17316@lafn.org> From: bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer) To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: My HOWTOs not uploaded to Metalab Reply-To: bf347@lafn.org Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk > On Fri May 21 David Lawyer wrote: >> I just checked Metalab and found that no HOWTOs have been uploaded this >> month. I emailed Tim Bynum 4 updated HOWTOs on Monday, May 17 since he On Fri May 21 Tim Bynum replied: >As for *your* (along with other) HOWTO(s)......it's been processed and is >uploading as I type. On Mon May 24 David Lawyer replied: *They still are not there and it's May 24, Monday, 2pm PDT (California). *A Serial-HOWTO got there but it's not the one I emailed last Monday (a *week ago). The other HOWTOs not there are Text-Terminal v1.05, Modem *v0.03, and Plug-and-Play v0.03. I sent them to linux-howto at metalab a *week ago. This is Mon May 31: My uploads of 4 @ HOWTOs are still not at Metalab. I also sent a note to Tim Bynum but no response. I just got email that someone wants to translate one of them. But I can't point them to the latest version. Also, people email me questions which I could answer better by referring them to the latest versions. -- Dave Lawyer From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id SAA31723 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 18:29:25 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id SAA30273 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 18:29:22 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id QAA16137 for ldp-l-list; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 16:08:04 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from lafn.org (lafn.ORG [206.117.18.1]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id QAA16133 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 16:07:51 +0800 Received: by lafn.org id AA19339 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ldp-l@linux.org.au); Wed, 2 Jun 1999 01:07:12 -0700 Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 01:07:12 -0700 Message-Id: <199906020807.AA19339@lafn.org> From: bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer) To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: HOWTOs finally get to Metalab Reply-To: bf347@lafn.org Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk The HOWTOs that I sent to Tim Bynum by the deadline on Mon May 17 finally are now at Metalab late on Tue. June 1. I expected it would only take a day or two but it took 2 weeks. I noticed another HOWTO made it thru also. I've been submitting HOWTOs by emailing them as text and not using gzip and uuencode (as Guyhlem mentioned). Since my email doesn't support MIME it can't do this. But I could write a shell script to gzip and uuencode and stick the result in the body of the message. Another way is to send a shar archive and use a flag to "shar" which will both gzip and uuencode. Should a script be written to handle such submissions? With a shar archive, a few HOWTOs can be sent in the same message. -- Dave Lawyer From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id WAA02422 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 22:22:06 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id WAA31286 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 22:22:01 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id TAA18182 for ldp-l-list; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 19:52:53 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from wallybox.cei.net (tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net [204.180.109.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id TAA18178 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 19:52:32 +0800 Received: from localhost (tjbynum@localhost) by wallybox.cei.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id GAA32616 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 06:48:18 -0500 Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 06:48:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim - HOWTO Coordinator To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: public humiliation In-Reply-To: <199906020807.AA19339@lafn.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk David, Your HOWTOs got lost in the shuffle between metalab and me. If you have a problem with me, I'd appreciate you not whaling on me on the list. Sure, I can take the verbal abuse, but it doesn't help matters much. We're trying to work together to correct problems, not stir up issues of a personal nature which I feel for one is unfair and secondly uncalled for. Generally the tone leads to hostility which some folks feel is necessary to jump on the band wagon. When I say unfair I'm not just speaking of myself, I would think the same if someone else were in my shoes. For me to turn to the list everytime someone sent me sgml source that wouldn't compile cleanly and begin ranting about it as a show of public humiliation just wouldn't work and would turn folks away. Instead I choose to either correct the problems myself (or at least do what I can) or send back suggestions/comments on what needs to be done. Even if it's just changing the format of , or the like. Many fall into this category, not excluding you. Something very simple, but certainly not worth me getting upset about and then turning it to the list. I've offered other alternatives in getting things to me to expedite things, but they generally fall on deaf ears. It seems that the fact that things were not going good for a while is all that matters and unless someone else takes over it's just not good enough or will not get better and this just simply isn't the case. I'm doing a lot (a lot more than folks know or seem to care about), but this just comes with the territory and that's fine. If it flames and reprimands (sp?) that I deserve then keep them coming, but keep them off the list, it's just not the place. I *can* read folks. ;) Should they continue on then I suppose I will just continue on as I have and will let them fall by the way side and I will continue to try to make things better, but I won't get into a grand discussion on the list. I accept the fact that they were late, but it's not as though you were singled out or that nothing had been updated, plenty of other HOWTOs have been re-distributed to the outside world. Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id MAA13653 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 12:10:49 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id MAA32195 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 12:10:41 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id JAA31281 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 09:29:23 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from wallybox.cei.net (tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net [204.180.109.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA31275 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 09:29:11 +0800 Received: from localhost (tjbynum@localhost) by wallybox.cei.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id UAA03300 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 20:25:20 -0500 Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 20:25:19 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim - HOWTO Coordinator To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: public humiliation In-Reply-To: <37554011.C1B0DF24@online.no> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk All, > This has been my experience too, for 15 montyhs; which is the > reason I am joining in here. There is *no* way that I have not updated a HOWTO that has been sent to me in the past 15mths. I'm not going to do this whether provoked or not. I have stated in the past few weeks that I'm here devoting more (much more) of my time to the tasks at hand and have posted this numberous times, so to say that there has been no response from me is not true. I'm doing what I can to make myself visible, but this is the *last* time I will respond to matters like this on the list. I asked politely and was ignored, and I believe that it was a kind request and wish that my take on the matter would have been respected. > ESR claims egoboosts from seeing ones name on the net is > a driving force. Personally I feel that is overstated > but I can see the problem of being blamed for not updating > ones work can cause irritation and negative feelings. If this is an ego boost then I would like a refund....promptly. What I do, I do in my spare time aside from my personal life and job. I get tons of email which I won't get into, little of which has to do with submitting HOWTOs, but rather how to do something. > All it takes is a sign of life, just a oneliner saying you I've commented on this as of late plenty of times. > Why not take the same approach as Alan Cox and keep a web diary? > That way everyone can see progress takes place. Add in the TODOs > and we feel reassured you are on the ball. I have and did and announced it to the list. It sees little to no traffice so I began keeping up with what was going on somewhere that *I* could make use of it as it didn't seem to be worth the time of others. > I am nearly exuberant that my Multi Disk HOWTO now has been > updated, just in time for the new Debian release to be > compiled up. Salt in the wound........yep. As I said, I just don't think this is the place and if others aren't interested in reading it, then it's definately not. Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id VAA21256 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 21:36:49 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id VAA32721 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 21:36:44 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id TAA04006 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 19:04:50 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from raje.ks-t.no (raje.ks-t.no [193.71.171.194]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id TAA04002 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 19:04:45 +0800 Received: from stanga.ks-t.no (unverified) by raje.ks-t.no (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id for ; to, 03 jun 1999 12:55:30 +0200 Received: from online.no (pc130.ks-t.no [193.71.169.130]) by stanga.ks-t.no with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id KW4GV0NT; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 12:58:38 +0200 Message-Id: <37566120.47062038@online.no> Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 13:04:00 +0200 From: Stein Gjoen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: public humiliation References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk My original reply seems to have come badly off and I wish to clarify some unfortunate misunderstanding. I wish to state publicly that - no provocateion was ever intended, - my frustrations in the past was directed at process rather than person - I regard the past as being the past and now look forward - I am happy with the way things are going now Tim - HOWTO Coordinator wrote: > > All, > > > This has been my experience too, for 15 montyhs; which is the > > reason I am joining in here. > There is *no* way that I have not updated a HOWTO that has been sent to me > in the past 15mths. > > I'm not going to do this whether provoked or not. I have stated in the > past few weeks that I'm here devoting more (much more) of my time to the > tasks at hand and have posted this numberous times, so to say that there > has been no response from me is not true. I'm doing what I can to make > myself visible, but this is the *last* time I will respond to matters like > this on the list. I asked politely and was ignored, and I believe that it > was a kind request and wish that my take on the matter would have been > respected. As I stated no provocation was intended, only constructive suggestions on how just a simple thing can make a big positive difference. > > ESR claims egoboosts from seeing ones name on the net is > > a driving force. Personally I feel that is overstated > > but I can see the problem of being blamed for not updating > > ones work can cause irritation and negative feelings. > If this is an ego boost then I would like a refund....promptly. I cannot say my ego has inflated itself either; I just started on this HOWTO for fun and in my spare time. Out of interest, is anyone here actually paid to write? Just curous. It was my impression that most people here by far were volunteers. > What I do, I do in my spare time aside from my personal life and job. > > I get tons of email which I won't get into, little of which has to do with > submitting HOWTOs, but rather how to do something. > > > All it takes is a sign of life, just a oneliner saying you > I've commented on this as of late plenty of times. I only wished to clarify why I too chose to CC mail to you to this list. You have no ideas on how much work I put into checking out my mail system as I always try to check for problems in my end before blaming others. Only by CC-ing could I actually ensure that mail left my machine and got somewhere. And again: now that you are more visible I feel reassured the problems are just something of the past. > > Why not take the same approach as Alan Cox and keep a web diary? > > That way everyone can see progress takes place. Add in the TODOs > > and we feel reassured you are on the ball. > I have and did and announced it to the list. It sees little to no > traffice so I began keeping up with what was going on somewhere that *I* > could make use of it as it didn't seem to be worth the time of others. > > I am nearly exuberant that my Multi Disk HOWTO now has been > > updated, just in time for the new Debian release to be > > compiled up. > Salt in the wound........yep. I have no idea how you arrived at that conclusion. Quite to the contrary I expressed my happyness with the new improved state of affairs. The Debian reference is real and it will also clear the bug tracking number assiged to my HOWTO. Let me assure you that my mails are chemically clean from salt or sarcasms. > As I said, I just don't think this is the place and if others aren't > interested in reading it, then it's definately not. Summing up I wished to explain the CC-ing to this list and also express my pleasure in the new improved state of affairs, and hope this followup has cleared up any misunderstanding. With kind regards, Stein Gjoen From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id FAA27449 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 05:18:15 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id FAA01709 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 05:18:11 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id DAA07040 for ldp-l-list; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 03:06:47 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from wallybox.cei.net (tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net [204.180.109.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id DAA07033 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 03:06:24 +0800 Received: from localhost (tjbynum@localhost) by wallybox.cei.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id OAA08419 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 14:02:50 -0500 Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 14:02:49 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim - HOWTO Coordinator To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: HOWTOs finally get to Metalab In-Reply-To: <199906031805.AA15932@lafn.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk David, If you have ftp capabilities, then you can ftp them directly to my box. If not an option, then just do as you are doing and I will reply upon receipt to you. I'm setting up a page that I used to use for the status of mini/HOWTOs so it should show up there as well. Let me know. Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id HAA29154 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 07:09:44 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id HAA02005 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 07:09:40 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id EAA15793 for ldp-l-list; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 04:17:43 +0800 Received: from inf.ufrgs.br (caracol.inf.ufrgs.br [143.54.11.7]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA15789 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 04:17:30 +0800 Received: from doncarlo.inf.ufrgs.br (itapua [143.54.9.20]) by inf.ufrgs.br (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA16479 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 17:13:40 -0300 (EST) Received: from localhost (casantos@localhost) by doncarlo.inf.ufrgs.br (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA00502 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 19:07:35 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: doncarlo.inf.ufrgs.br: casantos owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 19:07:35 +0000 (GMT) From: Carlos A M dos Santos To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: sgmltools 1.0.10: yes or no? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Ok, boys, it'a almost friday here :-) and I need a definition. If the group decide that a new-bug-fixed-enhanced sgmltools-1.0.x will still be useful I will spend next weekend hacking to have a tarball available in my homepage at monday. On contrary I will never talk about LinuxDoc again in this list, I swear. Casantos From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id LAA32621 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 11:27:17 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id LAA02347 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 11:27:13 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id JAA17027 for ldp-l-list; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 09:10:14 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from mailhost.plugged.net.au (IDENT:root@mailhost.plugged.net.au [203.20.51.20]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA17020 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 09:10:11 +0800 Received: from morris.staff.plugged.com.au (in.plugged.net.au [203.20.51.50]) by mailhost.plugged.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA08629 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 11:10:07 +1000 Received: from lovelace.staff.plugged.com.au (dwood@lovelace.staff.plugged.com.au [192.168.20.61]) by morris.staff.plugged.com.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA19292 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 11:10:06 +1000 From: David Wood Organization: Plugged In Software To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: public humiliation Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 11:05:06 +1000 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.17] Content-Type: text/plain References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <99060411100500.00743@lovelace.staff.plugged.com.au> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-KMail-Mark: Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On Thu, 03 Jun 1999, you wrote: > There is *no* way that I have not updated a HOWTO that has been sent to me > in the past 15mths. OK, I believe it. Now, can anyone tell me why the SMB HOWTO has not been updated on metalab?? Is this a similar problem of HOWTOs getting lost between Tim and metalab? An ftp to metalab.unc.edu shows: > ls -l SMB* -rw-rw-r-- 1 670 1002 32362 Aug 18 1996 SMB-HOWTO I'd _really_like to fix this problem! Thanks, Dave ------------------------------------------------------------------ David Wood | Telephone: +61 7 3876 7140 mailto:dwood@plugged.net.au | Facsimile: +61 7 3876 7142 http://www.plugged.net.au | PGP Key available via finger ------------------------------------------------------------------ "It is only the last and wildest kind of courage that can stand on a tower before 10,000 people and tell them that twice two is four." - G.K. Chesterton From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id MAA01027 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 12:29:03 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id MAA02377 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 12:28:58 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id KAA17419 for ldp-l-list; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 10:11:15 +0800 Received: from inf.ufrgs.br (caracol.inf.ufrgs.br [143.54.11.7]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id KAA17399 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 10:10:46 +0800 Received: from doncarlo.inf.ufrgs.br (itapua [143.54.9.20]) by inf.ufrgs.br (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA21997 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 23:07:01 -0300 (EST) Received: from localhost (casantos@localhost) by doncarlo.inf.ufrgs.br (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA01746 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 02:08:16 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: doncarlo.inf.ufrgs.br: casantos owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 02:08:16 +0000 (GMT) From: David Lawyer X-Sender: casantos@doncarlo.inf.ufrgs.br To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: sgmltools 1.0.10: yes or no? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk > > >Ok, boys, it'a almost friday here :-) and I need a definition. If the >group decide that a new-bug-fixed-enhanced sgmltools-1.0.x will still be >useful I will spend next weekend hacking to have a tarball available in my >homepage at monday. On contrary I will never talk about LinuxDoc again in >this list, I swear. > >Casantos I thought we had a nice discussion about LinuxDoc vs DocBook. I think we all agree to go for DocBook (at least eventually). But I think we agree to keep LinuxDoc for a while longer (at least as an option). So I think the answer is yes, we could use the new version of sgmltools-1. I hope that at least Debian will package it. Debian has both sgml-tools (for LinuxDoc) and sgmltools-2 (the one for docbook). Sven Rudolf maintains sgml-tools. His email: sr1@inf.tu-dresden.de. Debian has a utility to convert a Debian package to a Redhat rpm. So I hope the new version can be packaged as it makes install/deinstall at lot easier. -- Dave Lawyer From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA10384 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 00:05:08 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA03696 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 00:05:04 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id VAA21176 for ldp-l-list; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 21:47:08 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from wallybox.cei.net (tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net [204.180.109.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id VAA21172 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 21:46:52 +0800 Received: from localhost (tjbynum@localhost) by wallybox.cei.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id IAA13014 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 08:43:36 -0500 Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 08:43:35 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim - HOWTO Coordinator To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: LDP Leadership In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Hello, Just wanted to take a minute to announce the results of the LDP Leadership nominations. There was only one nomination and it was for: Guylhem Aznar Therefore no voting was necessary..... Congratulations and good luck. Let's all come together and give him all the support that he needs and make the LDP a more or less "in your face" organization that gets everyones attention!!!!! Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id SAA31723 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 18:29:25 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id SAA30273 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 18:29:22 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id QAA16137 for ldp-l-list; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 16:08:04 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from lafn.org (lafn.ORG [206.117.18.1]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id QAA16133 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 16:07:51 +0800 Received: by lafn.org id AA19339 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ldp-l@linux.org.au); Wed, 2 Jun 1999 01:07:12 -0700 Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 01:07:12 -0700 Message-Id: <199906020807.AA19339@lafn.org> From: bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer) To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: HOWTOs finally get to Metalab Reply-To: bf347@lafn.org Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk The HOWTOs that I sent to Tim Bynum by the deadline on Mon May 17 finally are now at Metalab late on Tue. June 1. I expected it would only take a day or two but it took 2 weeks. I noticed another HOWTO made it thru also. I've been submitting HOWTOs by emailing them as text and not using gzip and uuencode (as Guyhlem mentioned). Since my email doesn't support MIME it can't do this. But I could write a shell script to gzip and uuencode and stick the result in the body of the message. Another way is to send a shar archive and use a flag to "shar" which will both gzip and uuencode. Should a script be written to handle such submissions? With a shar archive, a few HOWTOs can be sent in the same message. -- Dave Lawyer From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id MAA13653 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 12:10:49 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id MAA32195 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 12:10:41 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id JAA31281 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 09:29:23 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from wallybox.cei.net (tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net [204.180.109.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA31275 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 09:29:11 +0800 Received: from localhost (tjbynum@localhost) by wallybox.cei.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id UAA03300 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 20:25:20 -0500 Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 20:25:19 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim - HOWTO Coordinator To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: public humiliation In-Reply-To: <37554011.C1B0DF24@online.no> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk All, > This has been my experience too, for 15 montyhs; which is the > reason I am joining in here. There is *no* way that I have not updated a HOWTO that has been sent to me in the past 15mths. I'm not going to do this whether provoked or not. I have stated in the past few weeks that I'm here devoting more (much more) of my time to the tasks at hand and have posted this numberous times, so to say that there has been no response from me is not true. I'm doing what I can to make myself visible, but this is the *last* time I will respond to matters like this on the list. I asked politely and was ignored, and I believe that it was a kind request and wish that my take on the matter would have been respected. > ESR claims egoboosts from seeing ones name on the net is > a driving force. Personally I feel that is overstated > but I can see the problem of being blamed for not updating > ones work can cause irritation and negative feelings. If this is an ego boost then I would like a refund....promptly. What I do, I do in my spare time aside from my personal life and job. I get tons of email which I won't get into, little of which has to do with submitting HOWTOs, but rather how to do something. > All it takes is a sign of life, just a oneliner saying you I've commented on this as of late plenty of times. > Why not take the same approach as Alan Cox and keep a web diary? > That way everyone can see progress takes place. Add in the TODOs > and we feel reassured you are on the ball. I have and did and announced it to the list. It sees little to no traffice so I began keeping up with what was going on somewhere that *I* could make use of it as it didn't seem to be worth the time of others. > I am nearly exuberant that my Multi Disk HOWTO now has been > updated, just in time for the new Debian release to be > compiled up. Salt in the wound........yep. As I said, I just don't think this is the place and if others aren't interested in reading it, then it's definately not. Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id LAA32621 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 11:27:17 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id LAA02347 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 11:27:13 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id JAA17027 for ldp-l-list; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 09:10:14 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from mailhost.plugged.net.au (IDENT:root@mailhost.plugged.net.au [203.20.51.20]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA17020 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 09:10:11 +0800 Received: from morris.staff.plugged.com.au (in.plugged.net.au [203.20.51.50]) by mailhost.plugged.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA08629 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 11:10:07 +1000 Received: from lovelace.staff.plugged.com.au (dwood@lovelace.staff.plugged.com.au [192.168.20.61]) by morris.staff.plugged.com.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA19292 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 11:10:06 +1000 From: David Wood Organization: Plugged In Software To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: public humiliation Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 11:05:06 +1000 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.17] Content-Type: text/plain References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <99060411100500.00743@lovelace.staff.plugged.com.au> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-KMail-Mark: Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On Thu, 03 Jun 1999, you wrote: > There is *no* way that I have not updated a HOWTO that has been sent to me > in the past 15mths. OK, I believe it. Now, can anyone tell me why the SMB HOWTO has not been updated on metalab?? Is this a similar problem of HOWTOs getting lost between Tim and metalab? An ftp to metalab.unc.edu shows: > ls -l SMB* -rw-rw-r-- 1 670 1002 32362 Aug 18 1996 SMB-HOWTO I'd _really_like to fix this problem! Thanks, Dave ------------------------------------------------------------------ David Wood | Telephone: +61 7 3876 7140 mailto:dwood@plugged.net.au | Facsimile: +61 7 3876 7142 http://www.plugged.net.au | PGP Key available via finger ------------------------------------------------------------------ "It is only the last and wildest kind of courage that can stand on a tower before 10,000 people and tell them that twice two is four." - G.K. Chesterton From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA10384 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 00:05:08 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA03696 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 00:05:04 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id VAA21176 for ldp-l-list; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 21:47:08 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from wallybox.cei.net (tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net [204.180.109.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id VAA21172 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 21:46:52 +0800 Received: from localhost (tjbynum@localhost) by wallybox.cei.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id IAA13014 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 08:43:36 -0500 Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 08:43:35 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim - HOWTO Coordinator To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: LDP Leadership In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Hello, Just wanted to take a minute to announce the results of the LDP Leadership nominations. There was only one nomination and it was for: Guylhem Aznar Therefore no voting was necessary..... Congratulations and good luck. Let's all come together and give him all the support that he needs and make the LDP a more or less "in your face" organization that gets everyones attention!!!!! Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id UAA27248 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 20:30:43 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id UAA04843 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 20:30:39 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id SAA01977 for ldp-l-list; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 18:18:25 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from wallybox.cei.net (tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net [204.180.109.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id SAA01973 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 18:18:19 +0800 Received: from localhost (tjbynum@localhost) by wallybox.cei.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id FAA17647 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 05:15:39 -0500 Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 05:15:39 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim - HOWTO Coordinator To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: LDP Leadership In-Reply-To: <19990604232606.A2830@barberouge.linux.lmm.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk > What about adding some LDP related info (on a volunteer basis of course) > in our .sig ? I see nothing wrong with this. > BTW, I'd like to make public comments about : > * Miguel requesting authors for GNOME to say something like "the LDP is > here and can help you if you want" It seems that we have enough trouble finding new authors for continued maintenance on existing docs, but it would be nice to do what we could. > * linux administrator security guide "PDF format only and restricted > license is not what we want for the LDP, but this is a good work but > maybe could he try LDP-license ?" This and other docs in the LDP really need to be addressed. My personal opinion is that *all* the LDP works should fall under the same license/copyright. Although it's nice to give people the freedom to do as they choose, it just doesn't make sense to give everyone the opportunity to come up with the own "spin" on things. > * sgmltools now unmaintained : "We are moving from sgml to docbook and > will have both format for now so this could be a problem" s/sgml to docbook/linuxdoc to docbook/ Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA31994 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 02:28:12 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA06149 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 02:28:08 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id AAA03064 for ldp-l-list; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 00:19:06 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from wallybox.cei.net (tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net [204.180.109.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA03060 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 00:18:59 +0800 Received: from localhost (tjbynum@localhost) by wallybox.cei.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA30513 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 11:16:32 -0500 Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 11:16:32 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim - HOWTO Coordinator To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: LDP Leadership In-Reply-To: <19990605124908.A1050@barberouge.linux.lmm.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Hello, > I've just submitted an announce with a call for new authors to freshmeat. Cool.....I've been talking with Patrick Lenz to get the updates posted there as well. We're trying to decide the best way to get then information of updated docs to the site. This will be more or less what I'm sending to LinuxToday.com I plan on doing this to as many sites as I can find. I'm working with a lot of folks, so I hope this helps. > I think we should submit LDP license to the gnu project and ask them if > they could make a GPL documentation license with it. Back when all the roar started up about where to put HOWTOs etc. I contacted GNU. Here's the catch which applies to what you stated below. The current licensing/copyright of some docs just won't fit into the scheme of things. I'd be more than happy to ellaborate or forward the email, but I think you all know where I'm coming from. I just hate to bring the issue up again, b/c no decisions get made and folks end up getting mad. Perhaps with Guylhem in the middle of things now, something can and will be resolved. > I mean : if he doesn't want a LDP compatible license and another format, > his nice guide will not be included in the LDP. Fair enough. P.S. s/Projet/Project/ ;) Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id DAA32623 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 03:13:25 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id DAA06203 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 03:13:22 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id BAA03213 for ldp-l-list; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 01:05:41 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from wallybox.cei.net (tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net [204.180.109.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA03209 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 01:05:19 +0800 Received: from localhost (tjbynum@localhost) by wallybox.cei.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA01444 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 12:02:52 -0500 Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 12:02:48 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim - HOWTO Coordinator To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Outdated Docs Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Hello, I've been doing some clean up and have come up with a list of docs that I'd like to consider moving to "unmaintained". Out of just the HOWTOs alone there are 30 docs that are at least a year old and many much older. I was going to submit this to the list, but I just hate emailing stuff like that in here. You can view the list at: http://wallybox.cei.net/~tjbynum/LDP/ The user/pass is howto/pass I will do the same with mini-HOWTOs as soon as I can. For now the script that produced this list will email all authors of the outdated docs, stating something to the affect that the document(s) will be moved to "unmaintained" on Friday June 11, 1999 if no updates are sent. It's always a pain to move things to unmaintained b/c of mirroring and folks looking for the docs. Is it worth the time and effort to reference the links back to the unmaintained directory, or just remove it all together. I have mixed emotions, but prefer the latter. Please let me hear your comments and suggestions. Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id DAA00453 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 03:35:38 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id DAA06220 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 03:35:33 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id BAA03275 for ldp-l-list; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 01:27:15 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from ezwebhost.com (root@www10.ezwebhost.com [207.149.40.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA03271 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 01:27:02 +0800 Received: from blacky (host134-37.iwbc.net [216.23.134.37]) by ezwebhost.com (8.9.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA13833 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 10:34:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199906051734.KAA13833@ezwebhost.com> From: "Mr. Poet" Organization: LinuxPorts Software To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 10:23:32 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: I will take (Re: Outdated Docs) Reply-to: poet@linuxports.com In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk I will gladly take over: WWW Howto Intranet Server Howto PPP Howto Let me know if these need handling. Poet --poet@linuxports.com-- ICQ: 33017215 http://www.linuxports.com --Power to the Penguin-- From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id IAA13701 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 08:16:50 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id IAA09636 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 08:16:47 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id GAA13251 for ldp-l-list; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 06:04:45 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from hera.cwi.nl (hera.cwi.nl [192.16.191.1]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id GAA13247 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 06:04:41 +0800 Received: from eland.cwi.nl (eland.cwi.nl [192.16.191.73]) by hera.cwi.nl with ESMTP id AAA22124 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 00:04:21 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by eland.cwi.nl id AAA13133; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 00:04:20 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 00:04:20 +0200 (MET DST) From: Andries.Brouwer@cwi.nl Message-Id: To: ldp-l@linux.org.au, tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net Subject: Re: Outdated Docs Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk From: Tim - HOWTO Coordinator I've been doing some clean up and have come up with a list of docs that I'd like to consider moving to "unmaintained". Out of just the HOWTOs alone there are 30 docs that are at least a year old and many much older. I was going to submit this to the list, but I just hate emailing stuff like that in here. You can view the list at: http://wallybox.cei.net/~tjbynum/LDP/ The user/pass is howto/pass I will do the same with mini-HOWTOs as soon as I can. For now the script that produced this list will email all authors of the outdated docs, stating something to the affect that the document(s) will be moved to "unmaintained" on Friday June 11, 1999 if no updates are sent. It's always a pain to move things to unmaintained b/c of mirroring and folks looking for the docs. Is it worth the time and effort to reference the links back to the unmaintained directory, or just remove it all together. But maybe nothing is wrong with these docs. If the MILO howto describes MILO, and no important things have changed in MILO, then the same document is still just as good as when it was written. I think the criterion must not be the age of the document, but a consensus that it is no longer useful. Andries From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id IAA13795 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 08:22:41 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id IAA09652 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 08:22:38 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id GAA13347 for ldp-l-list; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 06:15:55 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from wallybox.cei.net (tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net [204.180.109.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id GAA13342 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 06:15:49 +0800 Received: from localhost (tjbynum@localhost) by wallybox.cei.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id RAA04607 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 17:13:31 -0500 Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 17:13:31 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim - HOWTO Coordinator To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: Outdated Docs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On Sun, 6 Jun 1999 Andries.Brouwer@cwi.nl wrote: > But maybe nothing is wrong with these docs. > If the MILO howto describes MILO, and no important things have > changed in MILO, then the same document is still just as good as > when it was written. > > I think the criterion must not be the age of the document, > but a consensus that it is no longer useful. This is true....I've been in contact with quite a few of the authors, and have let them know that just b/c of the date I will *not* just put their docs in unmaintained. But if this gets their attention then so be it. Unless someone else knows of a way to do this, then this will have to the way. I don't have the time to peruse every document (some 213 between minis/HOWTOs and this excludes FAQS. I know of know barometer other than the above mentioned. Authors who I don't hear from, will force me to go over the documents which will hopefully not be all that many. ;) Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA14864 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 09:42:09 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA09695 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 09:42:04 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id HAA18396 for ldp-l-list; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 07:36:04 +0800 Received: from inf.ufrgs.br (caracol.inf.ufrgs.br [143.54.11.7]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id HAA18392 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 07:35:57 +0800 Received: from doncarlo.inf.ufrgs.br (itapua [143.54.9.20]) by inf.ufrgs.br (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA22655 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 20:32:00 -0300 (EST) Received: from localhost (casantos@localhost) by doncarlo.inf.ufrgs.br (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA30277 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 22:19:02 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: doncarlo.inf.ufrgs.br: casantos owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 22:19:02 +0000 (GMT) From: Carlos A M dos Santos To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: Overworked ? In-Reply-To: <19990605205325.B1134@barberouge.linux.lmm.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On Sat, 5 Jun 1999, Guylhem Aznar wrote: > However, you're already maintaining 3 HOWTOs, don't you think 6 HOWTOs > will make too much work ? I agree, but there is other point of view: the 3 HOWTOs are very related. IMO, we could try a little clean-up, merging some of them, as I sugested some time ago for the I18N/NLS support. > More than 3 documents is too much for a single person, and we *need* new > authors :-( Or less documents :-). Casantos -- Programming the X Window System is like trying to find the square root of pi using roman numerals. (Unknown) From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA14898 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 09:44:46 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA09708 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 09:44:42 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id HAA18427 for ldp-l-list; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 07:38:50 +0800 Received: from inf.ufrgs.br (caracol.inf.ufrgs.br [143.54.11.7]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id HAA18422 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 07:38:44 +0800 Received: from doncarlo.inf.ufrgs.br (itapua [143.54.9.20]) by inf.ufrgs.br (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA22706 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 20:34:57 -0300 (EST) Received: from localhost (casantos@localhost) by doncarlo.inf.ufrgs.br (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA12108 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 23:37:34 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: doncarlo.inf.ufrgs.br: casantos owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 23:37:33 +0000 (GMT) From: Carlos A M dos Santos To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: Outdated Docs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk My opinions Alpha-HOWTO, MILO-HOWTO and SRM-HOWTO: These should be merged and maintained by someone of the Alpha development group. Assembly-HOWTO, ELF-HOWTO, GCC-HOWTO and possibly Benchmarking-HOWTO: Should be merged into a single "Programming-HOWTO". Perhaps asking help from the Cygnus staff, since they are maintaining GCC now. AX25-HOWTO and HAM-HOWTO: Merge them too. Firewall-HOWTO and Intranet-Server-HOWTO: Merge with other related HOWTOs. MGR-HOWTO: Is MGR being maintened yet? Finnish-HOWTO: What is Linus doing now? :-) -- Programming the X Window System is like trying to find the square root of pi using roman numerals. (Unknown) From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id RAA20849 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 17:08:16 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id RAA10011 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 17:08:13 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id OAA19869 for ldp-l-list; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 14:59:31 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from lafn.org (lafn.ORG [206.117.18.1]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id OAA19865 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 14:59:28 +0800 Received: by lafn.org id AA09931 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ldp-l@linux.org.au); Sat, 5 Jun 1999 23:59:07 -0700 Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 23:59:07 -0700 Message-Id: <199906060659.AA09931@lafn.org> From: bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer) To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Spliting/merging HOWTOS Reply-To: bf347@lafn.org Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Merging HOWTOs has been mentioned, but doing just the opposite (spliting them up) is sometimes needed. For example I split up Serial-HOWTO into Text-Terminal-HOWTO, Modem-HOWTO, and Serial-HOWTO. I think I did the right thing. A person wanting to install/configure a Text-Terminal might never think to look in Serial-HOWTO to find this. Ditto for someone with a Modem. Another advantage is that the work can be spilt up and a different person can maintain each HOWTO. This hasn't happened yet for these 3 HOWTOs as I'm maintaining them. A downside to splitting them is that there is some duplication of content but I plan to automate the including process (when I edit a common topic in one HOWTO, the others get changed accordingly). This would be hard to do if there were different authors for related HOWTOs. If there was a good hypertext system for puting a link in one HOWTO to the exact subsection of another HOWTO, then the duplication of content mentioned above wouldn't be needed. The downside to the existing duplication is that more storage space will be needed for it (muliply the extra space by the millions of people who get Linux). While the cost may only be 1/10 cent/PC, with millions of copies of Linux this is a total cost of thousands of dollars (just for my HOWTOs). In the future, if there was a list of topics covered by the HOWTOs showing how well each topic is covered, then splitting them up might not be beneficial. But at present in some cases it is. I agree that there are some cases where HOWTOs need to be merged. -- Dave Lawyer From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA27328 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 01:17:18 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA11182 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 01:17:15 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id XAA21585 for ldp-l-list; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 23:08:24 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from wallybox.cei.net (tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net [204.180.109.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id XAA21581 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 23:08:18 +0800 Received: from localhost (tjbynum@localhost) by wallybox.cei.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA09735 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 10:06:21 -0500 Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 10:06:20 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim - HOWTO Coordinator To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Updates Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Hello, I have created another link to the page located at http://wallybox.cei.net/~tjbynum/LDP/ The added link will show the HOWTO/mini/FAQ that I have received and processed. It currently does not show which ones I have receieved, but are pending processing, but I will add a link to it this evening. It's not pretty, but it is to the point which is what I want. I work on asthetics later, but I'm a vi die-hard and just don't like the frilly stuff. As suggested I will begin keeping more or less a diary (already do this just not made public) for all to see if you wish. I'll also bring back the projects page listing current HOWTO/mini/FAQs in the works. Let me know what you think of the suggestions above and your thoughts on the page(s). If you don't feel it's worth viewing then that's cool, I'll just maintain them for myself and deny access to save the bandwidth, but if it is worth viewing *please* let me know. No comments are considered a negative response, wouldn't you agree? If you don't see your doc listed and you've sent me an update, then please contact me at once. B/c they are processed does not mean that they have been uploaded (they haven't been yet b/c I'm expecting some more in today). I will also add a comment to state whether or not they have been uploaded this evening. Yard duties call!!!!! Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id DAA28817 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 03:06:03 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id DAA11553 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 03:06:00 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id AAA21833 for ldp-l-list; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 00:56:12 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from wallybox.cei.net (tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net [204.180.109.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA21829 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 00:56:06 +0800 Received: from localhost (tjbynum@localhost) by wallybox.cei.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA11215 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 11:54:05 -0500 Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 11:54:05 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim - HOWTO Coordinator To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: Updates Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk All, The user/pass is the same as it is for the other pages: howto / pass Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA30082 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 04:41:49 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA11625 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 04:41:46 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id CAA21994 for ldp-l-list; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 02:34:14 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from smtp1.proxad.net (root@smtp1.proxad.net [212.27.32.5]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA21986 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 02:34:10 +0800 Received: from barberouge.linux.lmm.com (IDENT:mail@toulouse-59-36.dial.proxad.net [212.27.59.36]) by smtp1.proxad.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id UAA26614; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 20:34:01 +0200 Received: from guylhem by barberouge.linux.lmm.com with local (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10qhPo-0000CT-00; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 20:13:00 +0200 Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 20:13:00 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Cc: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org, greg.hankins@cc.gatech.edu, ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: mailing list, local LDPs, PGP key, LDP site Message-ID: <19990606201300.B692@barberouge.linux.lmm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=5I6of5zJg18YgZEa; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk --5I6of5zJg18YgZEa Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi ! 1/ There are many LDP related mailing lists, maybe too much. What about making ldp-l@linux.org.au the "official" one ? 2/ I would like to start a better cooperation with local LDPs. They are doing more than translating LDP documents ; I think their leaders should subscribe to this list. 3/ For a better security, I will PGP sign my messages, you can get my public key on http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem/pubring.pgp. I have a mail alias for my pager, but please don't send big messages (150 chars. max.) 4/ We have a reserved domain somewhere (sorry I can't remember :-). When could it be ready to use ? Greg Hankins is the webmaster of http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/ Greg, what about moving our main site to this new domain ? --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://metalab.unc.edu/L= DP/ Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Partout/Everywhere: guylhem-pager \@/ oeil.qc.ca --5I6of5zJg18YgZEa Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia iQCVAgUBN1q6LN+QeWug/qfFAQHlcgP+MiuXZYwiksM128Lc+pTYs9v0TbO63VQl 7UISFP9Ptfg8qpPIKsYAw+k6IpurVk+zLqro6fgk7dprZUCtyMFxPN6iHz/oyKVC QgxNqifjUuR2IcTqRjedTXv/z60jT5tU3iPh13RIyJMhbOiZ9e5KOR6OEt198fUb 3N4R1TUMI4Q= =XKHK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --5I6of5zJg18YgZEa-- From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA30090 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 04:42:20 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA11636 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 04:42:17 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id CAA21983 for ldp-l-list; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 02:34:06 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from smtp2.proxad.net (root@smtp2.proxad.net [212.27.32.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA21976 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 02:34:01 +0800 Received: from barberouge.linux.lmm.com (IDENT:mail@toulouse-59-36.dial.proxad.net [212.27.59.36]) by smtp2.proxad.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id UAA03008 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 20:33:56 +0200 Received: from guylhem by barberouge.linux.lmm.com with local (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10qckl-0000C4-00 for ldp-l@linux.org.au; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 15:14:19 +0200 Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 15:14:18 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: Outdated Docs Message-ID: <19990606151418.A745@barberouge.linux.lmm.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Carlos A M dos Santos on Sat, Jun 05, 1999 at 11:37:33PM +0000 Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On Sat, Jun 05, 1999 at 11:37:33PM +0000, Carlos A M dos Santos wrote: > Alpha-HOWTO, MILO-HOWTO and SRM-HOWTO: These should be merged and > maintained by someone of the Alpha development group. Ok > Assembly-HOWTO, ELF-HOWTO, GCC-HOWTO and possibly Benchmarking-HOWTO: > Should be merged into a single "Programming-HOWTO". Perhaps asking help > from the Cygnus staff, since they are maintaining GCC now. Ok But the others mergings are not *that* evident for me. I would like to reduce the number of HOWTOs to ease maintenance, do respective authors agree ? -- Guylhem Aznar Linux Documentation Project leader http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/ ______ Au travail/At work: guylhem-pager \@/ oeil.qc.ca ______ ¯¯¯¯¯¯ Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca ¯¯¯¯¯¯ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA30097 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 04:42:24 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA11647 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 04:42:21 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id CAA22007 for ldp-l-list; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 02:34:32 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from smtp2.proxad.net (root@smtp2.proxad.net [212.27.32.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA22001 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 02:34:25 +0800 Received: from barberouge.linux.lmm.com (IDENT:mail@toulouse-59-36.dial.proxad.net [212.27.59.36]) by smtp2.proxad.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id UAA03026 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 20:34:18 +0200 Received: from guylhem by barberouge.linux.lmm.com with local (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10qcmY-0000C8-00 for ldp-l@linux.org.au; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 15:16:10 +0200 Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 15:16:10 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: Spliting/merging HOWTOS Message-ID: <19990606151610.B745@barberouge.linux.lmm.com> References: <199906060659.AA09931@lafn.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <199906060659.AA09931@lafn.org>; from David Lawyer on Sat, Jun 05, 1999 at 11:59:07PM -0700 Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On Sat, Jun 05, 1999 at 11:59:07PM -0700, David Lawyer wrote: > In the future, if there was a list of topics covered by the HOWTOs > showing how well each topic is covered, then splitting them up might not > be beneficial. But at present in some cases it is. I agree that there > are some cases where HOWTOs need to be merged. What about discussing the spliting/merging here ? -- Guylhem Aznar Linux Documentation Project leader http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/ ______ Au travail/At work: guylhem-pager \@/ oeil.qc.ca ______ ¯¯¯¯¯¯ Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca ¯¯¯¯¯¯ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA30103 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 04:42:28 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA11657 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 04:42:24 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id CAA21985 for ldp-l-list; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 02:34:10 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from smtp2.proxad.net (root@smtp2.proxad.net [212.27.32.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA21974 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 02:33:57 +0800 Received: from barberouge.linux.lmm.com (IDENT:mail@toulouse-59-36.dial.proxad.net [212.27.59.36]) by smtp2.proxad.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id UAA03001; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 20:33:47 +0200 Received: from guylhem by barberouge.linux.lmm.com with local (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10qfG3-00007e-00; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 17:54:47 +0200 Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 17:54:46 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: ldp-l@linux.org.au, editors@lwn.net Subject: Re: Outdated Docs Message-ID: <19990606175446.A469@barberouge.linux.lmm.com> References: <19990605203735.B1075@barberouge.linux.lmm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Tim - HOWTO Coordinator on Sat, Jun 05, 1999 at 05:31:05PM -0500 Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On Sat, Jun 05, 1999 at 11:16:32AM -0500, Tim - HOWTO Coordinator wrote: > Cool.....I've been talking with Patrick Lenz to get the updates posted > there as well. We're trying to decide the best way to get then > information of updated docs to the site. This will be more or less > what > I'm sending to LinuxToday.com Excellent ! I'm Cc'ing this message to LWN editors too. > I plan on doing this to as many sites as I can find. I'm working with > a > lot of folks, so I hope this helps. We should also talk about of our short term ideas (@EOF) > I just hate to bring the issue up again, b/c no decisions get made and > folks end up getting mad. Perhaps with Guylhem in the middle of > things > now, something can and will be resolved. What about sending a copy of current LDPL to RMS and ask him if he could help us improving it ? David, you had many ideas for the LDPL some month ago, what about submitting them too ? ** 1/ Maintenance should be automatic, with either CVS, FTP or email. 2/ We must improve LDP awareness, many people just don't know about the HOWTOs and even more don't know they can download LDP "books". 3/ Cooperation with non English LDP is essential, we should set up a set of common rules between all LDP translations (German, drench, Italians, Spanish, Japanese...) to ensure end users will know where to look for documentation in their language, and will successfully find it. 4/ We should have more authors (many nice FAQs or documents could become plain HOWTOs) and more quality, maybe with a QC group which would read the HOWTOs and look for mistakes, typos... Also, unmaintained documents should be clearly announced, to ask for new authors. 5/ Finally, we should have a short list of LDP compatible license, for example GPL, LGPL, LDPL, BSD, ARTISTIC... to avoid documents with commercial alike licenses. -- Guylhem Aznar Linux Documentation Project leader http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/ ______ Au travail/At work: guylhem-pager \@/ oeil.qc.ca ______ ¯¯¯¯¯¯ Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca ¯¯¯¯¯¯ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id HAA32423 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 07:22:03 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id HAA12046 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 07:21:59 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id FAA32086 for ldp-l-list; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 05:11:50 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from cupido.cs.hut.fi (oboe.in.helsinki.fi [128.214.182.66]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id FAA32081 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 05:11:44 +0800 Received: from liw by cupido.cs.hut.fi with local (Exim 2.11 #1 (Debian)) id 10qij1-00016R-00; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 22:36:55 +0300 From: Lars Wirzenius MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ldp-l@linux.org.au, ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: mailing list, local LDPs, PGP key, LDP site In-Reply-To: <19990606201300.B692@barberouge.linux.lmm.com> Mail-Copies-To: never X-No-Archive: yes Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 19:36:45 GMT Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-md5"; boundary="130.233.193.44.9849.3760.928697814.605.26578"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk This is a MIME message. --130.233.193.44.9849.3760.928697814.605.26578 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Guylhem Aznar : > 1/ There are many LDP related mailing lists, maybe too much. > What about making ldp-l@linux.org.au the "official" one ? How about using the public list that has already been in fairly active use for a long time? The name of the list is ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org (not lists.debian.org, even though it is currently the same host). If anything, we should move the other lists (a private list for LDP authors -- currently ldp-l@linux.org.au -- if it is considered necessary, and an announcement list -- currently ldp-l-announce@linux.org.au) to lists.linuxdoc.org. Talk to the Debian people (listmaster@debian.org) about that. There is also linux-doc@vger.rutgers.edu, which is not an LDP list, but which might as well be terminated to reduce confusion, unless there is much interest in a non-LDP-related documentation effort. > 2/ I would like to start a better cooperation with local LDPs. > They are doing more than translating LDP documents ; I think > their leaders should subscribe to this list. Certainly. > 4/ We have a reserved domain somewhere (sorry I can't remember :-). > When could it be ready to use ? Has been for months. Talk to Jim Pick (jim@jimpick.com) for DNS. (You remembered it well enough to write list.linuxdoc.org...) -- = Stupid little mailer under construction, sorry for any problems. --130.233.193.44.9849.3760.928697814.605.26578 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: GnuPG v0.9.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iQCVAwUAN1rN1oQRll5MupLRAQHUTAP/fOuNkXntSbQcmzbSSnsZzx2lHvhJEi5P nYOL7djloWJ5wLj/nz4w3neF2KfxASInpN4Tslwj7NxG6jv0v2b7phrkQxRKpJzF SnaiaGuNt4Zw3G7hJhRGODXnIjv9OCrwJDkj9QJdPwffBe4XTKp7fjm9IJiDHo2E h/vwyUNvGdg= =5rcL -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --130.233.193.44.9849.3760.928697814.605.26578-- This was a MIME message. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA13274 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 00:03:11 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA17693 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 00:03:07 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id VAA04127 for ldp-l-list; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 21:50:24 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from raje.ks-t.no (raje.ks-t.no [193.71.171.194]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id VAA04123 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 21:50:17 +0800 Received: from stanga.ks-t.no (unverified) by raje.ks-t.no (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id for ; ma, 07 jun 1999 15:40:45 +0200 Received: from online.no (pc130.ks-t.no [193.71.169.130]) by stanga.ks-t.no with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id KW4GV090; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 15:43:55 +0200 Message-Id: <375BCDE3.B65A33FB@online.no> Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 15:49:23 +0200 From: Stein Gjoen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: Outdated Docs References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Tim - HOWTO Coordinator wrote: [snip > You can view the list at: > http://wallybox.cei.net/~tjbynum/LDP/ > The user/pass is howto/pass I am glad you reannounced it, I was looking for this list the other day and could not find it. One puzzling thing: the Assembly HOWTO appears both on the "outdated" list as well as on the "current update". I'd hazard the guess the author is active and does not have plans of rolling it all into a programming HOWTO. Regards, Stein Gjoen From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA14739 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 01:48:56 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA17751 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 01:48:52 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id XAA04492 for ldp-l-list; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 23:22:38 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from wallybox.cei.net (tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net [204.180.109.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id XAA04488 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 23:22:27 +0800 Received: from localhost (tjbynum@localhost) by wallybox.cei.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA17446 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 10:20:51 -0500 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 10:20:50 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim - HOWTO Coordinator To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: Outdated Docs In-Reply-To: <375BCDE3.B65A33FB@online.no> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Hello, > One puzzling thing: the Assembly HOWTO appears both > on the "outdated" list as well as on the "current update". > I'd hazard the guess the author is active and does not > have plans of rolling it all into a programming HOWTO. This is my mistake. This was sent to me after I sent the email(s) requesting updated information. The oudated was gen'd through a script as it doesn't need to be run each time the HOWTO/minis are processed. I will remove it when I get a chance this afternoon. I will say this, I have had quite a few responses which is positive! Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA15294 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 02:29:27 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA18109 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 02:29:23 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id AAA04914 for ldp-l-list; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 00:18:17 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from smtp1.proxad.net (root@smtp1.proxad.net [212.27.32.5]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA04910 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 00:18:13 +0800 Received: from barberouge.linux.lmm.com (IDENT:mail@toulouse-59-185.dial.proxad.net [212.27.59.185]) by smtp1.proxad.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id SAA13560; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 18:18:08 +0200 Received: from guylhem by barberouge.linux.lmm.com with local (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10r1xr-00007L-00; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 18:09:31 +0200 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 18:09:31 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: ldp-l@linux.org.au, ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org, linux-doc@vger.rutgers.edu Subject: Re: mailing list, local LDPs, PGP key, LDP site Message-ID: <19990607180931.B435@barberouge.linux.lmm.com> References: <19990606201300.B692@barberouge.linux.lmm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=+HP7ph2BbKc20aGI; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Lars Wirzenius on Sun, Jun 06, 1999 at 07:36:45PM +0000 Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk --+HP7ph2BbKc20aGI Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Jun 06, 1999 at 07:36:45PM +0000, Lars Wirzenius wrote: > > What about making ldp-l@linux.org.au the "official" one ? >=20 > The name of the list is ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org (not > lists.debian.org, even though it is currently the same host). =20 Since linuxdoc.org will be LDP domain, let's keep this one. > There is also linux-doc@vger.rutgers.edu, which is not an LDP list, > but which might as well be terminated to reduce confusion, unless > there is much interest in a non-LDP-related documentation effort. Cc'ed > > They are doing more than translating LDP documents ; I think > > their leaders should subscribe to this list. >=20 > Certainly. Problem is I don't know how to contact each one. =20 > Has been for months. Talk to Jim Pick (jim@jimpick.com) for DNS. > (You remembered it well enough to write list.linuxdoc.org...) So we are going to move our main site to www.linuxdoc.org --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://metalab.unc.edu/L= DP/ Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Partout/Everywhere: guylhem-pager \@/ oeil.qc.ca --+HP7ph2BbKc20aGI Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia iQCVAgUBN1vuut+QeWug/qfFAQH2awP9Hg6UKbZLDmsdB2fyk1hA1nrIH4wMvUsA yHQdba6hAnubjWlOwQa0cR/AG0WsUCFCbTkdM/cCqLhVc6/Ft8j6ELi8MM10BzCd iDt8FqSXZWfXGu5P95qv2VTH//ew3YiqKSounqDsQEOcXwzkc0EGvLzad9TDQAEV JdteBQ9okVU= =rR/8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --+HP7ph2BbKc20aGI-- From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA08273 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 09:25:04 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA20691 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 09:25:01 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id GAA00744 for ldp-l-list; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 06:30:35 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from nfs.aceonline.com.au (root@nfs.aceonline.com.au [203.62.135.41]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id GAA00657 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 06:30:19 +0800 Received: from smtp2.proxad.net (root@smtp2.proxad.net [212.27.32.6]) by nfs.aceonline.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8.DIE.SPAMMER.DIE) with ESMTP id SAA29399 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 18:42:58 +0800 Received: from barberouge.linux.lmm.com (IDENT:mail@toulouse-59-19.dial.proxad.net [212.27.59.19]) by smtp2.proxad.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id MAA18235; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 12:41:51 +0200 Received: from guylhem by barberouge.linux.lmm.com with local (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10rIsD-00009F-00; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 12:12:49 +0200 Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 12:12:48 +0200 From: Guylhem Aznar To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Cc: jim@jimpick.com Subject: Local LDPs Message-ID: <19990608121248.A559@barberouge.linux.lmm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=Kj7319i9nmIyA2yE; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk --Kj7319i9nmIyA2yE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi I just received a message from JP LDP leader ; we are currently using a mirroring system on metalab for each local LDP. What about providing www.XX.linuxdoc.org and ftp.XX.linuxdoc.org aliases instead of mirroring them ? [XX is ISO 2 letters code (fr for France, de for Germany, no for Norway, jp for Japan...)] The main page could also have little flags to point new users to translations ; I'm going to download current main page to add these cosmetic changes... --=20 Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://metalab.unc.edu/L= DP/ Clef PGP/PGP key: http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem Chez moi/At home: guylhem \@/ oeil.qc.ca Partout/Everywhere: guylhem-pager \@/ oeil.qc.ca --Kj7319i9nmIyA2yE Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia iQCVAgUBN1zsoN+QeWug/qfFAQESOQP+KhDj6slaeEGyaUewddNpfF9BVK/HvRvE 6OC7SZx4MI2NeHbZjpp5T0Gm4CuZCTH2VyWeP+UbYBXNuCWxlB6sru9t0/D04d8f 1xUiD+EBwGoes2flL9TdQZhb3n8QMMX32+Y6wM7fEZnmW3eqlrNsem6PQgJDLBsm an4CS66vNHU= =8WUh -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Kj7319i9nmIyA2yE-- From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id NAA11743 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 13:39:20 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id NAA20838 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 13:39:17 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id LAA03916 for ldp-l-list; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 11:31:50 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from burdell.cc.gatech.edu (root@burdell.cc.gatech.edu [130.207.3.207]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id LAA03912 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 11:31:46 +0800 Received: from forge.cc.gatech.edu (gregh@forge.cc.gatech.edu [130.207.9.19]) by burdell.cc.gatech.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA08735 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 23:31:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from gregh@localhost) by forge.cc.gatech.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA04834 for ldp-l@linux.org.au; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 23:31:40 -0400 (EDT) From: gregh@cc.gatech.edu (Greg Hankins) Message-Id: <199906090331.XAA04834@forge.cc.gatech.edu> Subject: Re: Outdated Docs To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 23:31:40 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: from "Andries.Brouwer@cwi.nl" at Jun 6, 99 00:04:20 am X-PGP-fingerprint: 41 33 31 72 76 3F 42 DA AF E6 04 6D 36 79 6F EA X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Andries.Brouwer@cwi.nl writes: >But maybe nothing is wrong with these docs. >If the MILO howto describes MILO, and no important things have >changed in MILO, then the same document is still just as good as >when it was written. Agreed, but if nothing has changed, then it should only take the author a few seconds to update the date and submit a new version every few months. We've got to remember perception... if people see docs with old dates, then they will think the LDP is old. Joe User may not know that the foo package hasn't changed in years, but if he sees an old date that could lead to a negative impression. Besides, if the author can't manage to do at least an update or two a year, then there is a good chance the author isn't answering questions or making corrections either. -- Greg Hankins | Linux Documentation Project MS CS - Georgia Tech, College of Computing | Homepage and Linux Information http://www.cc.gatech.edu/staff/h/Greg.Hankins/ | http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id NAA11783 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 13:41:13 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id NAA20853 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 13:41:10 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id LAA03995 for ldp-l-list; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 11:35:09 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from burdell.cc.gatech.edu (root@burdell.cc.gatech.edu [130.207.3.207]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id LAA03990 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 11:35:03 +0800 Received: from forge.cc.gatech.edu (gregh@forge.cc.gatech.edu [130.207.9.19]) by burdell.cc.gatech.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA08865 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 23:34:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from gregh@localhost) by forge.cc.gatech.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA04861 for ldp-l@linux.org.au; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 23:34:59 -0400 (EDT) From: gregh@cc.gatech.edu (Greg Hankins) Message-Id: <199906090334.XAA04861@forge.cc.gatech.edu> Subject: Re: Outdated Docs To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 23:34:58 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <19990606175446.A469@barberouge.linux.lmm.com> from "Guylhem Aznar" at Jun 6, 99 05:54:46 pm X-PGP-fingerprint: 41 33 31 72 76 3F 42 DA AF E6 04 6D 36 79 6F EA X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Guylhem Aznar writes: >What about sending a copy of current LDPL to RMS and ask him if he could >help us improving it ? I tried this years ago. Not good :-(. >5/ Finally, we should have a short list of LDP compatible license, for >example GPL, LGPL, LDPL, BSD, ARTISTIC... to avoid documents with >commercial alike licenses. Yes, great idea. Unfortunately we have to be somewhat draconian about the license to ensure that the LDP docs stay free. There should however, be a choice of approve licenses. Regards, Greg -- Greg Hankins | Linux Documentation Project MS CS - Georgia Tech, College of Computing | Homepage and Linux Information http://www.cc.gatech.edu/staff/h/Greg.Hankins/ | http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id PAA12998 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 15:10:54 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id PAA20917 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 15:10:50 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id NAA04884 for ldp-l-list; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 13:00:11 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from maya.dyndns.org (IDENT:root@ts1-18.owns.interhop.net [165.154.232.82]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id NAA04880 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 13:00:04 +0800 Received: (from garym@localhost) by maya.dyndns.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1/hvv-redhat) id VAA18636; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 21:59:53 -0700 To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Corporate support for the LDP From: Gary Lawrence Murphy Reply-To: Gary Lawrence Murphy Organization: TeleDynamics --- the Art of Being There X-Url: http://www.teledyn.com/ Date: 09 Jun 1999 00:59:52 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Excuse the intrusion, but your online documentation states: If you are publishing or planning to publish any LDP manuals, please send mail to ldp-l@linux.org.au. It's nice to know who's doing what. The mailing address looks like it may be a mailing list, and my apologies in advance if this has been posted to a list --- I have also sent this email to the 'howto' address, but it is not my intention to splatter it all over the place; I only want to propose an arrangement which may help the LDP and its authors, and to further the cause of world domination (or is that 'liberation'?) This is just an innocent question, nothing concrete or decided, but what would you think of an arrangement with a major publisher to support the LDP? I have had several discussions with a publisher who finds the idea 'intriguing'. I am interested in your thoughts on whether there might be some way to help them improve the quality of their books while also helping improve the quality (in whatever sense of the word) of the free online resources available in the LDP. Compaq has certainly put its mark on certain aspects of Linux, as has IBM, Corel, ARM and RedHat; my contacts seem eager to do similar things for Linux documentation. What they know best is how to do documentation and they want to get involved; a partnering with the LDP seems an obvious way they can contribute back to our community. Any thoughts on this? -- Gary Lawrence Murphy TeleDynamics Communications Inc Business Telecom Services : Internet Consulting : http://www.teledyn.com Linux/GNU Education Group: http://www.egroups.com/group/linux-education/ "You don't play what you know; you play what you hear." -- (Miles Davis) From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id DAA23360 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 03:58:57 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id DAA22770 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 03:58:53 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id BAA09851 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 01:50:14 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from cupido.cs.hut.fi (cupido.cs.hut.fi [130.233.193.44]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA09846 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 01:50:10 +0800 Received: from liw by cupido.cs.hut.fi with local (Exim 2.11 #1 (Debian)) id 10rmVU-0000M2-00; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 20:51:20 +0300 From: Lars Wirzenius MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ldp-l@linux.org.au, ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Reply-to: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Local LDPs In-Reply-To: <19990608121248.A559@barberouge.linux.lmm.com> Mail-Copies-To: never X-No-Archive: yes Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 17:51:13 GMT Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-md5"; boundary="130.233.193.44.9849.1360.928950679.530.19954"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk This is a MIME message. --130.233.193.44.9849.1360.928950679.530.19954 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Why is this thread on ldp-l, where it is hidden from people? Please use ldp-discuss, so that we are an open project, instead of a closed and hidden one. Guylhem Aznar : > What about providing www.XX.linuxdoc.org and ftp.XX.linuxdoc.org aliases > instead of mirroring them ? If we make www.linuxdoc.org be the main LDP web site, it would make sense to have www.XX.linuxdoc.org be a mirror in XX - this convention is fairly wide spread already in other projects. I think a naming scheme that more clearly identifies that it is not a national mirror of the LDP would be nice. Of course, it makes sense to integate all national LDPs into `the' LDP, so that all documents are available in all languages. > The main page could also have little flags to point new users to > translations ; I'm going to download current main page to add these > cosmetic changes... Flags happen to be bad for identifying languages, since they symbolize countries. Some countries have many languages, and some languages are used in many countries (say, English :). -- = Stupid little mailer under construction, sorry for any problems. --130.233.193.44.9849.1360.928950679.530.19954 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: GnuPG v0.9.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iQCVAwUAN16pl4QRll5MupLRAQEcHQQAtH3k5sK9ddMivMozNckBvARhSdkUrg69 YU2NBLuWWbxoSRC5ZytTpDCrGlV6cbHV6WF06XHcOAJkm+c/++/L00uIT4hPUdMx qpNglHRN8toXziN3sBn44XTyk5izpYAABlXhVhyB/waW4NHGGsh2Nf+h9E69no5j RZzQnpjK4DQ= =0GJw -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --130.233.193.44.9849.1360.928950679.530.19954-- This was a MIME message. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA23460 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 04:05:16 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA22785 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 04:05:13 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id BAA09905 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 01:56:01 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from cupido.cs.hut.fi (cupido.cs.hut.fi [130.233.193.44]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA09901 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 01:55:57 +0800 Received: from liw by cupido.cs.hut.fi with local (Exim 2.11 #1 (Debian)) id 10rmbC-0000MC-00; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 20:57:14 +0300 From: Lars Wirzenius MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ldp-l@linux.org.au, ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Reply-to: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: Re: Outdated Docs In-Reply-To: <375E9C5B.AE38D5D4@tsai.es> Mail-Copies-To: never X-No-Archive: yes Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 17:57:13 GMT Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-md5"; boundary="130.233.193.44.9849.1360.928951034.122.21792"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk This is a MIME message. --130.233.193.44.9849.1360.928951034.122.21792 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Again, this thread should be moved to ldp-discuss, to promote openness. (Why worry about promoting the LDP, when everything the LDP does is done behind closed doors?) Ismael Olea : > Guylhem Aznar escribi=F3: > = > > 1/ Maintenance should be automatic, with either CVS, FTP or email. > = > =09At LuCAS we are preparing a CVS server. I see no reason why the openprojects.net server that hosts the LDP CVS tree could not be used for LuCAS (and other local LDPs). > =09Hum. This is a very complex stuff. What about recomend the use of GPL > for new docs? A GPL'd document requires that book publishers provide the source code for the document. Not good. (See FSF manuals for better licenses for' documentation.) -- = Stupid little mailer under construction, sorry for any problems. --130.233.193.44.9849.1360.928951034.122.21792 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: GnuPG v0.9.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iQCVAwUAN16q+YQRll5MupLRAQHl6QQAt1aVA6jDcEhCzsElQTBGk76edQ8mG1CX MgZjsyctTY9AUmaxtCo66Mj4tBiqepu//vet4WBQGRtj+9FwrHOQC1QicUxi7AV2 sr043E+i6I+Of2dGjzEsanSB8VRYDEH6DPMWNlHtq/qOYOX7KTMdnAVfq7yAIVEM qdQidAo+YLw= =Z32z -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --130.233.193.44.9849.1360.928951034.122.21792-- This was a MIME message. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA23488 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 04:06:15 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA22796 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 04:06:12 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id BAA09924 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 01:57:53 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from cupido.cs.hut.fi (cupido.cs.hut.fi [130.233.193.44]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA09920 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 01:57:49 +0800 Received: from liw by cupido.cs.hut.fi with local (Exim 2.11 #1 (Debian)) id 10rmcz-0000MH-00; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 20:59:05 +0300 From: Lars Wirzenius MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ldp-l@linux.org.au, ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Reply-to: ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: sgmltools In-Reply-To: <375E9FD7.3D5D9BAC@tsai.es> Mail-Copies-To: never X-No-Archive: yes Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 17:59:05 GMT Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-md5"; boundary="130.233.193.44.9849.1360.928951145.458.10750"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk This is a MIME message. --130.233.193.44.9849.1360.928951145.458.10750 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ismael Olea : > =09I think LDP howtos must use sgmltools 1.0.x (1.0.10). At the same time= , > LDP must colaborate with the SGMLtools team to refine 2.x. > = > =09With SGMLtools 2.x in production and some documentation about it and > DocBook, LDP can change completely. DocBook works splendidly without SGMLTools. There is no need for the LDP to wait for SGMLTools 2.x to be in production use. -- = Stupid little mailer under construction, sorry for any problems. --130.233.193.44.9849.1360.928951145.458.10750 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: GnuPG v0.9.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iQCVAwUAN16raYQRll5MupLRAQF7VAQAiB3H/p6O+37ruYzAc281IJWbR6Z5RRsW IKM9MDrv+Tg8PZpYYixQqGWyhF+sshkEkNwu7uGB4GmF04bvDF505eIH7hOw3Pa1 XZMhzvngTdAwvwVEOTP0dVIkanq89zyQwT3pr9PjqHE9NjGO7rAhyiMZvbD1bP1g vcrM2xBpovU= =kz8J -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --130.233.193.44.9849.1360.928951145.458.10750-- This was a MIME message. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id IAA26947 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 08:07:25 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id IAA23213 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 08:07:21 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id FAA20684 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 05:58:33 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from mta4.iol.it (mta4.iol.it [195.210.91.154]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id FAA20680 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 05:58:29 +0800 Received: from baloo.andrea.org ([212.52.69.231]) by mta4.iol.it (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA3916; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 23:57:30 +0200 Received: from akela.andrea.org [10.0.0.2] (mail) by baloo.andrea.org with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #1 (Debian)) id 10rqJD-00012B-00; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 23:54:55 +0200 Received: from andrea by akela.andrea.org with local (Exim 2.05 #1 (Debian)) id 10rsBO-0000h1-00; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 23:54:58 +0000 Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 23:54:58 +0000 From: Andrea Fanfani To: ldp-l@linux.org.au, ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Cc: aph@debian.org, debian-legal@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: License Message-ID: <19990609235458.A2649@akela.andrea.org> Reply-To: ldp-l@linux.org.au, ldp-discuss@list.linuxdoc.org References: <199906091804.AA25949@lafn.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=cNdxnHkX5QqsyA0e; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <199906091804.AA25949@lafn.org>; from David Lawyer on Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 11:04:29AM -0700 Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk --cNdxnHkX5QqsyA0e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 11:04:29AM -0700, David Lawyer wrote: > Ismael Olea wrote: > > Hum. This is a very complex stuff. What about recomend the use of GPL > >for new docs? Hi all, i'm the debian maintainer of the guide of LDP. Actually not all the guide of LDP are considered debian free software guidelines=20 ok for this point of the licence: 02. Any translation or derivative work of must be approved by the au- thor in writing before distribution. =20 at this moment the network admin guide, the linux kernel guide are non-free, the kernel modules programming guide, the installation and getting started guide and afaik the sysadmin guide are released under GPL and are in the principal part of the debian distribution. The linux programmer guide is a terrible non-free for the point of the license that says:=20 ``if you make money with this guide the author want a share'' I know that there are problems with the licence of copyright and i propose to adopt this point in the future license of LDP: ``if you change the guide (not package or print) you MUST change the name''=20 This is a sort of ``escamotage'' generally accepted.=20 If you have any kind of question please contact me and/or=20 the debian-legal list best regards Andrea Fanfani --=20 Andrea Fanfani --cNdxnHkX5QqsyA0e Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia iQCVAwUBN17+0VC0kNbT2Jf1AQF3HAQAnqVdHcOTfbR7WJS5amHPVtv4Spfmel+i oJmhMEOEcDWUYwFdxyTDjlpg2Zw0IZ/rnxOCH+urVKxGEKL49ERa2pfzVf0LkjQ7 yEGiCz/9Z4rjFCz3vhUPgM0ghlQJrVgQaEKFwdElbkw9t0TtLzUSbk8jKABEpDsv W3tVS8dS7jc= =5ece -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --cNdxnHkX5QqsyA0e-- From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id OAA32024 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 14:21:49 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id OAA23531 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 14:21:45 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id MAA23948 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 12:12:10 +0800 Received: from inf.ufrgs.br (caracol.inf.ufrgs.br [143.54.11.7]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id MAA23943 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 12:11:38 +0800 Received: from doncarlo.inf.ufrgs.br (jacui [143.54.11.130]) by inf.ufrgs.br (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA12478 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 01:07:32 -0300 (EST) Received: from localhost (casantos@localhost) by doncarlo.inf.ufrgs.br (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA01430 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 04:04:08 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: doncarlo.inf.ufrgs.br: casantos owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 04:04:06 +0000 (GMT) From: Carlos A M dos Santos To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: {Assembly,ELF,}GCC-HOWTO (was: Outdated Docs) In-Reply-To: <19990606142452.C1383@zen.ics.uwe.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On Sun, 6 Jun 1999, Daniel Barlow wrote: > On Sat, Jun 05, 1999 at 11:37:33PM +0000, Carlos A M dos Santos wrote: > > Assembly-HOWTO, ELF-HOWTO, GCC-HOWTO and possibly Benchmarking-HOWTO: > > Should be merged into a single "Programming-HOWTO". Perhaps asking help > > from the Cygnus staff, since they are maintaining GCC now. > > This is a good idea but for the title, which is meaningless. It's not > telling you how to program. Ok, I agree. > The "Linux C API Companion"? Doesn't mention assembly (nor c++ but > nor do any of the documents listed) > > GCC-HOWTO was bad enough -- GCC HOW TO _what_? It's impossible to find a short word meaning ``This document covers how to set up the GNU C compiler and development libraries under Linux, and gives an overview of compiling, linking, running and debugging programs under it.'' So the title should be ``Compiling, linking, running and debugging programs under Linux''. As narrower is the documment's scope, longer need to be the title. Consider the file name just a cue for the user. File names are not enough to explain the document contents. Users need to browse the HOWTO index looking at the subjects to find which HOWTO may cover the topics they are interested in. For this reason the HOWTO index is very important, IMO. Casantos From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id OAA32397 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 14:49:40 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id OAA23557 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 14:49:36 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id MAA24312 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 12:43:52 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from burdell.cc.gatech.edu (root@burdell.cc.gatech.edu [130.207.3.207]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id MAA24306 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 12:43:48 +0800 Received: from forge.cc.gatech.edu (gregh@forge.cc.gatech.edu [130.207.9.19]) by burdell.cc.gatech.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA07324 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 00:43:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from gregh@localhost) by forge.cc.gatech.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA14538 for ldp-l@linux.org.au; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 00:43:42 -0400 (EDT) From: gregh@cc.gatech.edu (Greg Hankins) Message-Id: <199906100443.AAA14538@forge.cc.gatech.edu> Subject: Re: Outdated Docs To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 00:43:42 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: from "Andries.Brouwer@cwi.nl" at Jun 9, 99 11:09:31 am X-PGP-fingerprint: 41 33 31 72 76 3F 42 DA AF E6 04 6D 36 79 6F EA X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Andries.Brouwer@cwi.nl writes: >Suppose I work on the foo project. All details are in my head. >I write a HOWTO to document what I know. Now I go on to the >bar project. Nothing happens with the foo project anymore, >it has reached a satisfactory state. Then someone else should maintain it. >Now, two years later you come to me and tell me that I should >edit the date of my HOWTO? Nope, I'm saying that it should be updated every couple of months, even if it just is minor corrections. I know that for my HOWTO there were always a few corrections that I could make. If the person isn't going to even do this, then it is unmaintained. >Or suppose I once needed to use the foo program. But it was very >badly documented and it took me a lot of effort to find out how >to use it. I write down what I learned. But today I do not use >the foo program anymore, I have different hardware these days. Then someone else should maintain it. Greg -- Greg Hankins | Linux Documentation Project MS CS - Georgia Tech, College of Computing | Homepage and Linux Information http://www.cc.gatech.edu/staff/h/Greg.Hankins/ | http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id OAA32440 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 14:50:31 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id OAA23568 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 14:50:27 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id MAA24299 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 12:43:25 +0800 Received: from inf.ufrgs.br (caracol.inf.ufrgs.br [143.54.11.7]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id MAA24295 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 12:42:51 +0800 Received: from doncarlo.inf.ufrgs.br (jacui [143.54.11.130]) by inf.ufrgs.br (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA12966 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 01:38:58 -0300 (EST) Received: from localhost (casantos@localhost) by doncarlo.inf.ufrgs.br (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA01498 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 04:21:04 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: doncarlo.inf.ufrgs.br: casantos owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 04:21:04 +0000 (GMT) From: Carlos A M dos Santos To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: Outdated Docs In-Reply-To: <19990606151418.A745@barberouge.linux.lmm.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On Sun, 6 Jun 1999, Guylhem Aznar wrote: > On Sat, Jun 05, 1999 at 11:37:33PM +0000, Carlos A M dos Santos wrote: > > Alpha-HOWTO, MILO-HOWTO and SRM-HOWTO: These should be merged and > > maintained by someone of the Alpha development group. > > Ok > > > Assembly-HOWTO, ELF-HOWTO, GCC-HOWTO and possibly Benchmarking-HOWTO: > > Should be merged into a single "Programming-HOWTO". Perhaps asking help > > from the Cygnus staff, since they are maintaining GCC now. > > Ok > > But the others mergings are not *that* evident for me. AX25-HOWTO and HAM-HOWTO: Booth related to radio amateur access to the Internet using packet radio. Firewall-HOWTO and Intranet-Server-HOWTO: The main reason to have a firewall is to safely connect an Intranet to the Internet. They have the same clientele. Casantos From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id PAA32751 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 15:14:33 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id PAA23603 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 15:14:30 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id NAA24730 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 13:08:54 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from burdell.cc.gatech.edu (root@burdell.cc.gatech.edu [130.207.3.207]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id NAA24726 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 13:08:47 +0800 Received: from forge.cc.gatech.edu (gregh@forge.cc.gatech.edu [130.207.9.19]) by burdell.cc.gatech.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA08850 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 01:08:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from gregh@localhost) by forge.cc.gatech.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA15220 for ldp-l@linux.org.au; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 01:08:41 -0400 (EDT) From: gregh@cc.gatech.edu (Greg Hankins) Message-Id: <199906100508.BAA15220@forge.cc.gatech.edu> Subject: Re: Local LDPs To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 01:08:40 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <19990609150913.B803@barberouge.linux.lmm.com> from "Guylhem Aznar" at Jun 9, 99 03:09:13 pm X-PGP-fingerprint: 41 33 31 72 76 3F 42 DA AF E6 04 6D 36 79 6F EA X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Guylhem Aznar writes: >Do you really think we should mirror the sites ? URL redirection has much less overhead, and doesn't need to wait for a mirror script to update. Maintaining mirror sites it a nightmare... I maintain around 10 or so right now for all of the various translation projects on metalab and it isn't fun and does not scale. Greg -- Greg Hankins | Linux Documentation Project MS CS - Georgia Tech, College of Computing | Homepage and Linux Information http://www.cc.gatech.edu/staff/h/Greg.Hankins/ | http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id PAA00488 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 15:28:43 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id PAA23648 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 15:28:14 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id NAA24852 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 13:18:33 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from burdell.cc.gatech.edu (root@burdell.cc.gatech.edu [130.207.3.207]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id NAA24848 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 13:18:28 +0800 Received: from forge.cc.gatech.edu (gregh@forge.cc.gatech.edu [130.207.9.19]) by burdell.cc.gatech.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA09287 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 01:18:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from gregh@localhost) by forge.cc.gatech.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA15299 for ldp-l@linux.org.au; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 01:18:22 -0400 (EDT) From: gregh@cc.gatech.edu (Greg Hankins) Message-Id: <199906100518.BAA15299@forge.cc.gatech.edu> Subject: Re: License To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 01:18:21 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <199906091804.AA25949@lafn.org> from "David Lawyer" at Jun 9, 99 11:04:29 am X-PGP-fingerprint: 41 33 31 72 76 3F 42 DA AF E6 04 6D 36 79 6F EA X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk David Lawyer writes: >What I am essentially proposing is that we would have a LDP >License/Guidelines in a single document. It would serve as the license >for some but for others it would be the guidelines on how to write your >own license. Doesn't this leave a lot of possible loopholes in personalized licenses that have not been reviewed by peers? Then there would have to be an approval committee for each person's version. We know from experience that we can't even agree on a general license... :-(. Greg -- Greg Hankins | Linux Documentation Project MS CS - Georgia Tech, College of Computing | Homepage and Linux Information http://www.cc.gatech.edu/staff/h/Greg.Hankins/ | http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id RAA02025 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 17:24:07 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id RAA23932 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 17:23:18 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id PAA26082 for ldp-l-list; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 15:10:48 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from mail.wol.dk (mail10s.image.dk [212.54.64.155]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id PAA26076 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 15:10:42 +0800 Received: (qmail 27532 invoked by uid 0); 10 Jun 1999 07:10:37 -0000 Received: from 8.ppp1-2.image.dk (HELO hafnium.nkbj.dk) (212.54.78.72) by mail020.image.dk with SMTP; 10 Jun 1999 07:10:37 -0000 Received: from localhost (hafnium.nkbj.dk [127.0.0.1]) by hafnium.nkbj.dk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04111 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 09:10:15 +0200 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 09:10:14 +0200 (CEST) From: Niels Kristian Bech Jensen X-Sender: nkbj@hafnium.nkbj.dk To: Linux Documentation Project Subject: Re: {Assembly,ELF,}GCC-HOWTO (was: Outdated Docs) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On Thu, 10 Jun 1999, Carlos A M dos Santos wrote: [...] > It's impossible to find a short word meaning > > ``This document covers how to set up the GNU C compiler and development > libraries under Linux, and gives an overview of compiling, linking, > running and debugging programs under it.'' > > So the title should be ``Compiling, linking, running and debugging > programs under Linux''. As narrower is the documment's scope, longer need > to be the title. > > Consider the file name just a cue for the user. File names are not enough > to explain the document contents. Users need to browse the HOWTO index > looking at the subjects to find which HOWTO may cover the topics they are > interested in. For this reason the HOWTO index is very important, IMO. > How about "Compiling-HOWTO"? A FAQ on the Danish Linux/Unix newsgroups is "How do I compile a program under Linux?" I think "Compiling-HOWTO" would be the best cue for the (new) user. -- Niels Kristian Bech Jensen -- nkbj@image.dk -- http://www.image.dk/~nkbj/ ----------->> Stop software piracy --- use free software! <<----------- From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id IAA14391 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 08:26:24 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id IAA26024 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 08:26:04 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id GAA31373 for ldp-l-list; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 06:18:24 +0800 Received: from inf.ufrgs.br ([143.54.11.7]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id GAA31369 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 06:18:17 +0800 Received: from doncarlo.inf.ufrgs.br (jacui [143.54.11.130]) by inf.ufrgs.br (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA04775 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 19:12:51 -0300 (EST) Received: from localhost (casantos@localhost) by doncarlo.inf.ufrgs.br (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05635 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 07:40:02 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: doncarlo.inf.ufrgs.br: casantos owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 07:40:00 +0000 (GMT) From: Carlos A M dos Santos To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: sgmltools In-Reply-To: <375EA1A3.1CF52CDE@tsai.es> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On Wed, 9 Jun 1999, Ismael Olea wrote: > > 2. Goodbye RTF > > > > Are there good *free* RTF readers for *NIX? > > Linux newbies asks this formats. They need time to learn the «*ix way > of life». I'm not proposing removing RTF because it is not the "*ix way of life", but because the RTF files produced by sgmltools look terribly ugly and fix the RTF backend looks as a waste of time. The HTML otput is better and can be read almost any browser from Amaya to Grail. Casantos From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id UAA24363 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 20:48:19 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id UAA26593 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 20:48:15 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id SAA15610 for ldp-l-list; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 18:34:00 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from wallybox.cei.net (tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net [204.180.109.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id SAA15606 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 18:33:54 +0800 Received: from localhost (tjbynum@localhost) by wallybox.cei.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id FAA08256 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 05:34:15 -0500 Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 05:34:14 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim - HOWTO Coordinator To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: Local LDPs In-Reply-To: <19990609213701.I1040@barberouge.linux.lmm.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Hi, > > use ldp-discuss, so that we are an open project, instead of a closed > > and hidden one. > > I would like all other lists to close, so ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org > could be the official one. I think 2 lists is fine (ldp-discuss, ldp-l). Correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel some issues should be kept on the ldp-l and not ldp-discuss. I don't see the point in some of our discussions being blasted everywhere, but maybe I'm missing something. > Can we move all subscribers to lists.linuxdoc.org and safely delete > ldp-l ? Why????? Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id VAA25171 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 21:48:35 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id VAA27445 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 21:48:31 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id TAA16113 for ldp-l-list; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 19:37:20 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from cupido.cs.hut.fi (fagotti.in.helsinki.fi [128.214.182.88]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id TAA16108 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 19:37:14 +0800 Received: from liw by cupido.cs.hut.fi with local (Exim 2.11 #1 (Debian)) id 10sPXx-0002YU-00; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 14:32:29 +0300 From: Lars Wirzenius MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ldp-l@linux.org.au, ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Reply-to: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: LDP site In-Reply-To: <19990610220056.A580@barberouge.linux.lmm.com> Mail-Copies-To: never X-No-Archive: yes Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 11:32:28 GMT Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-md5"; boundary="130.233.193.44.9849.1610.929100748.803.3204"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk This is a MIME message. --130.233.193.44.9849.1610.929100748.803.3204 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable (Moving thread to ldp-discuss from ldp-l.) Guylhem Aznar : > On Thu, Jun 10, 1999 at 01:29:56AM -0400, Greg Hankins wrote: > > Sure, email me some updates or a URL with changes! > = > You can now try a pre pre alpha : http://oeil.qc.ca/~guylhem/LDP I hate the (pixelwise) huge and unnecessary image of "[LDP]". It both makes it slow to open the page and forces useful information off the first screenful of text in Netscape. -- = Stupid little mailer under construction, sorry for any problems. --130.233.193.44.9849.1610.929100748.803.3204 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: GnuPG v0.9.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iQCVAwUAN2DzzIQRll5MupLRAQGcFAP7Be7eSZ+4J0N2Ge55obbNoM5fWUnwWV/5 ClngBHxe8en+u4RMd4G540T2DbOs+JGju/BC8ienXY4Up2eqWIJ9Bvt5MI0WJL9D u2GSawkyRhGg5nP8LpKlEWQPmmF8M7u0fgQJqm7WDKTA2q/UvJSZY6jhyL+7qOIz hDmyyRj8Og8= =04Me -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --130.233.193.44.9849.1610.929100748.803.3204-- This was a MIME message. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id WAA25476 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 22:09:44 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id WAA27485 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 22:09:41 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id TAA16264 for ldp-l-list; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 19:51:33 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from cupido.cs.hut.fi (fagotti.in.helsinki.fi [128.214.182.88]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id TAA16260 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 19:51:23 +0800 Received: from liw by cupido.cs.hut.fi with local (Exim 2.11 #1 (Debian)) for ldp-l@linux.org.au id 10sPlh-0002ZG-00; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 14:46:41 +0300 From: Lars Wirzenius MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Cc: Subject: Re: Local LDPs In-Reply-To: Mail-Copies-To: never X-No-Archive: yes Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 11:46:40 GMT Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-md5"; boundary="130.233.193.44.9849.1610.929101600.635.26718"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk This is a MIME message. --130.233.193.44.9849.1610.929101600.635.26718 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tim - HOWTO Coordinator : > Correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel some issues should be kept on the > ldp-l and not ldp-discuss. I don't see the point in some of our > discussions being blasted everywhere, but maybe I'm missing something. There may be need for some discussion to be kept private (although I think they are very rare), and ldp-l might be kept for that reason. However, posting stuff to ldp-l should be the rare exception, not common usage as it is now. Please always use ldp-discuss when possible. -- = Stupid little mailer under construction, sorry for any problems. --130.233.193.44.9849.1610.929101600.635.26718 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: GnuPG v0.9.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iQCVAwUAN2D3IIQRll5MupLRAQHMRgP+JjYj2O1gACnPvmF4eL9HzhDGJi3quxkr TOyj4HFB9rcL8EWw/7VKeA7lNvU0/P7boOpgKStSAajlgHl97nh+1+p1xfmHBDU1 AYxMoVdEmKZFoKiN7HaX2D75JuPFcm6Zv0yyEpiSBXypd1hL1o3mUekolLh8tl6x 6XwHpjQ4xQg= =iYWp -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --130.233.193.44.9849.1610.929101600.635.26718-- This was a MIME message. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id WAA25772 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 22:34:25 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id WAA27561 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 22:34:21 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id UAA16498 for ldp-l-list; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 20:23:21 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from wallybox.cei.net (tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net [204.180.109.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id UAA16494 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 20:23:11 +0800 Received: from localhost (tjbynum@localhost) by wallybox.cei.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id HAA09062 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 07:23:29 -0500 Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 07:23:28 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim - HOWTO Coordinator To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: Local LDPs (Mailing Lists) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Hi, > There may be need for some discussion to be kept private (although > I think they are very rare), and ldp-l might be kept for that reason. > However, posting stuff to ldp-l should be the rare exception, not > common usage as it is now. Please always use ldp-discuss when possible. Then will someone kindly take a sec to explain this? There is a lot of bantering (quite a lot of arguing it seems at times) whether constructive or not. I feel that we have a responsibility to be professional about things at times, and for the most part I don't see that happening, or is this just my view or take on things. I am just one out of many. Ok, maybe not most of the time, but it does seem to be this way more often than it should. I'd just like to understand the logic is all, aside from someone wanting to label it as "Open Source", which to me seems an easy reply. Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA27004 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 00:05:03 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA27604 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 00:04:59 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id VAA17294 for ldp-l-list; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 21:50:47 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from wallybox.cei.net (tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net [204.180.109.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id VAA17285 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 21:50:38 +0800 Received: from localhost (tjbynum@localhost) by wallybox.cei.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id IAA09723 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 08:51:01 -0500 Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 08:51:00 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim - HOWTO Coordinator To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: [Update: HOWTO/mini] Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Hello, The Current Updates page has been modified/updated and can be viewed at: http://wallybox.cei.net/~tjbynum/LDP/current-updates.html or http://wallybox.cei.net/~tjbynum/LDP/ (don't forget the user/pass --> howto/pass) All the entries in the future will follow the format of the Kernel-HOWTO, which is: Classification: howto Document: Kernel-HOWTO Author: Brian Ward Description: Upgrading and compiling the Linux kernel Version: v1.0, 5 June 1999 Update: major Processed: Fri Jun 11 07:27:40 CDT 1999 Uploaded: Fri Jun 11 07:40:04 CDT 1999 If the following information does not warrant posting to the list, then let me know and I won't do it in the future. p.s. The upload to metalab is still in process. Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA27475 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 00:40:49 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA27721 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 00:40:45 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id WAA17535 for ldp-l-list; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 22:29:55 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from scicom.alphacdc.com (IDENT:4@scicom.alphacdc.com [192.88.125.1]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id WAA17531 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 22:29:48 +0800 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by scicom.alphacdc.com (8.8.8/8.8.8-ACDC) with UUCP id IAA03707 for ldp-l@linux.org.au; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 08:29:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from vern@localhost) by zebra.alphacdc.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IVH03132; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 08:28:59 -0600 Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 08:28:59 -0600 Message-Id: <199906111428.IVH03132@zebra.alphacdc.com> From: Vern Hoxie To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: MIME and other weird incantations Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Is it really necessary to post to mailing lists using MIME and/or whatever editors goose in superflous and distracting hieroglyphics into e-mail? Do sections these add to the information? ***************************************************************** This is a MIME message. --130.233.193.44.9849.1360.928951145.458.10750 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ [ Actual message included in this section. ] +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ --130.233.193.44.9849.1360.928951145.458.10750 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: GnuPG v0.9.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iQCVAwUAN16raYQRll5MupLRAQF7VAQAiB3H/p6O+37ruYzAc281IJWbR6Z5RRsW IKM9MDrv+Tg8PZpYYixQqGWyhF+sshkEkNwu7uGB4GmF04bvDF505eIH7hOw3Pa1 XZMhzvngTdAwvwVEOTP0dVIkanq89zyQwT3pr9PjqHE9NjGO7rAhyiMZvbD1bP1g vcrM2xBpovU= =kz8J -----END PGP MESSAGE----- ***************************************************************** Then there are those "=20" scattered around inside the message. Here is a section included in another message: ******************************************************************* Ismael Olea : > =09I think LDP howtos must use sgmltools 1.0.x (1.0.10). At the same time= , > LDP must colaborate with the SGMLtools team to refine 2.x. > = > =09With SGMLtools 2.x in production and some documentation about it and > DocBook, LDP can change completely. ******************************************************************* Note the disconnected comma (,) on the third line. Uuugly! Posters should keep there lines less than 72 characters. This leaves some space for quotations to have the leading '>'s added. Nothing is more confusing than having lines go on and on and on.... Except maybe the nefarios editor which clips lines at 79 characters then adds that crazy '='. The breaks occur at character count with no concept of word breaks. vern -- Vernon C. Hoxie vern@zebra.alphacdc.com 3975 W. 29th Ave. uucp: 303-455-2670 Denver, Colo., 80212 voice: 303-477-1780 You can delegate authority, but not responsibility. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA27737 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 00:59:23 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA27745 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 00:59:19 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id WAA17654 for ldp-l-list; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 22:46:33 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from scicom.alphacdc.com (IDENT:4@scicom.alphacdc.com [192.88.125.1]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id WAA17649 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 22:46:29 +0800 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by scicom.alphacdc.com (8.8.8/8.8.8-ACDC) with UUCP id IAA04238 for ldp-l@linux.org.au; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 08:46:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from vern@localhost) by zebra.alphacdc.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IVH03157; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 08:45:45 -0600 Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 08:45:45 -0600 Message-Id: <199906111445.IVH03157@zebra.alphacdc.com> From: Vern Hoxie To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: sgml etc Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk With all this discussion about LinuxDoc, DocBook, SGMLtools, sgmltool, SGMLTools, RTF, LDP etc. What do the abreviations mean? Where can they be obtained? How did "sgml-powertools" fit into the current evolution? Why doesn't it work at all? What is the recommended version to use currently? vern -- Vernon C. Hoxie vern@zebra.alphacdc.com 3975 W. 29th Ave. uucp: 303-455-2670 Denver, Colo., 80212 voice: 303-477-1780 You can delegate authority, but not responsibility. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA27903 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 01:10:00 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA27760 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 01:09:56 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id WAA17703 for ldp-l-list; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 22:56:42 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from scicom.alphacdc.com (IDENT:4@scicom.alphacdc.com [192.88.125.1]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id WAA17699 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 22:56:38 +0800 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by scicom.alphacdc.com (8.8.8/8.8.8-ACDC) with UUCP id IAA04431 for ldp-l@linux.org.au; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 08:56:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from vern@localhost) by zebra.alphacdc.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IVH03214; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 08:55:51 -0600 Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 08:55:51 -0600 Message-Id: <199906111455.IVH03214@zebra.alphacdc.com> From: Vern Hoxie To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: MIME and other weird incantations Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk In a very recect posting I included the following as bad practice: > ******************************************************************* > > Ismael Olea : >> =09I think LDP howtos must use sgmltools 1.0.x (1.0.10). At the same time= > , >> LDP must colaborate with the SGMLtools team to refine 2.x. >> = When going back through my saved messages, I found the original from Ismael Olea . It was correctly formatted. When Lars Wirzenius included it into his posting is when it got screwed up. My apologies to Ismael. vern -- Vernon C. Hoxie vern@zebra.alphacdc.com 3975 W. 29th Ave. uucp: 303-455-2670 Denver, Colo., 80212 voice: 303-477-1780 You can delegate authority, but not responsibility. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA29133 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 02:43:07 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA28111 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 02:43:03 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id AAA18059 for ldp-l-list; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 00:33:21 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from scicom.alphacdc.com (IDENT:4@scicom.alphacdc.com [192.88.125.1]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id AAA18055 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 00:33:16 +0800 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by scicom.alphacdc.com (8.8.8/8.8.8-ACDC) with UUCP id KAA06974 for ldp-l@linux.org.au; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 10:32:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from vern@localhost) by zebra.alphacdc.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KVH03459; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 10:32:18 -0600 Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 10:32:18 -0600 Message-Id: <199906111632.KVH03459@zebra.alphacdc.com> From: Vern Hoxie To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: sgmltools Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On Wed, 9 Jun 1999, Hugo van der Kooij wrote: > But as far as I am concerned the SGMLtools 2.0.2 work acceptable for > me for most purposes. That's nice. Now where can the rest of us get a copy? vern -- Vernon C. Hoxie vern@zebra.alphacdc.com 3975 W. 29th Ave. uucp: 303-455-2670 Denver, Colo., 80212 voice: 303-477-1780 You can delegate authority, but not responsibility. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA13973 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 09:48:32 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA06013 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 09:48:28 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id HAA17025 for ldp-l-list; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 07:37:46 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from cupido.cs.hut.fi (posetiivi.in.helsinki.fi [128.214.182.107]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id HAA17021 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 07:37:39 +0800 Received: from liw by cupido.cs.hut.fi with local (Exim 2.11 #1 (Debian)) for ldp-l@linux.org.au id 10sxGW-0002xd-00; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 02:32:44 +0300 From: Lars Wirzenius MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Cc: Subject: MIME and other weird incantations In-Reply-To: <199906111428.IVH03132@zebra.alphacdc.com> Mail-Copies-To: never X-No-Archive: yes Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 23:32:38 GMT Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-md5"; boundary="130.233.193.44.9849.1610.929230364.106.22195"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk This is a MIME message. --130.233.193.44.9849.1610.929230364.106.22195 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Vern Hoxie : > Is it really necessary to post to mailing lists using MIME and/or > whatever editors goose in superflous and distracting hieroglyphics into = > e-mail? I had a problem with my mailer (it's editor) that sometimes let me write lines longer than is polite. For that I apologize. For using digital signatures or MIME encodings, I do not apologize. The signatures are there, because I have been forged enough times, and any mailer that doesn=A8t support MIME these days is unsuitable for use. -- = Stupid little mailer under construction, sorry for any problems. --130.233.193.44.9849.1610.929230364.106.22195 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: GnuPG v0.9.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iQCVAwUAN2LuG4QRll5MupLRAQFrcQP/ZWvDd/h9pnv61BoQzTGxXhSQRmN2o9Yl UuF2tgJT0MmD8g2zWaVnYa60j0XZFkfLfivrRGLs/vK38M8MwPshHlQpC2IUf916 kuTbNMOAI/ii3wsQYlIIwr1qpQxUa6JZOBeWD+OJWZYQQZHU5jurIoDlpLoEKHWZ bUj6Fxj0PCo= =dqoZ -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --130.233.193.44.9849.1610.929230364.106.22195-- This was a MIME message. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA13990 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 09:51:16 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA06024 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 09:51:12 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id HAA17061 for ldp-l-list; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 07:45:38 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from cupido.cs.hut.fi (posetiivi.in.helsinki.fi [128.214.182.107]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id HAA17057 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 07:45:34 +0800 Received: from liw by cupido.cs.hut.fi with local (Exim 2.11 #1 (Debian)) for ldp-l@linux.org.au id 10sxO6-0002xz-00; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 02:40:34 +0300 From: Lars Wirzenius MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Cc: Subject: sgml etc In-Reply-To: <199906111445.IVH03157@zebra.alphacdc.com> Mail-Copies-To: never X-No-Archive: yes Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 23:40:33 GMT Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-md5"; boundary="130.233.193.44.9849.1610.929230834.295.21972"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk This is a MIME message. --130.233.193.44.9849.1610.929230834.295.21972 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Vern Hoxie : > With all this discussion about LinuxDoc, DocBook, SGMLtools, sgmltool, = > SGMLTools, RTF, LDP etc. What do the abreviations mean? Where can > they be obtained? There _has_ been explanations of these on ldp-l several times. Please pay attention. SGML is a method for defining document markup languages. It is not a markup language itself. LinuxDoc and DocBook are two such markup languages. SGML-Tools (spelled in various ways) is one set of tools for processing LinuxDoc (versions before 2.0) and DocBook (later versions). It is not the only such set of software; Jade and Jadetex are two other pieces of such software. URLs to the DocBook definition have floated on the list. I'm too lazy to look them up for you. See your Linux distribution for a package to install the software. RTF is short for Rich Text Format, a markup language meant for document interchange that works rather badly, but is popular among Windows users. If you don't know what LDP stands for, you're on the wrong list. > How did "sgml-powertools" fit into the current evolution? Why doesn't = > it work at all? I've never heard of sgml-powertools (nor do I use SGML-tools, incidentally). > What is the recommended version to use currently? HOWTOs have been marked up in LinuxDoc for many years, but since it is a bad language for its purpose, we are switching to DocBook. -- = Stupid little mailer under construction, sorry for any problems. --130.233.193.44.9849.1610.929230834.295.21972 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: GnuPG v0.9.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iQCVAwUAN2Lv8oQRll5MupLRAQGqNAQAmQsSLFNVW7v0i9OAV5gTj1hP2HGsfK5q oDUN0OYhXkG+bAKVr38GAgZbO2j7fkg7fj2a3rvsolVs5UNXGqgQH+mY/B5mkpyF zEYyN+MJpnLs3hp431Uh94+SwHx712Y2wGpCJOH0YQXgNEngyrdPidsgdKMr9oz6 Psxfm2rSqR4= =3NEW -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --130.233.193.44.9849.1610.929230834.295.21972-- This was a MIME message. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA14010 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 09:53:28 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA06046 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 09:53:24 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id HAA17121 for ldp-l-list; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 07:48:19 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from cupido.cs.hut.fi (posetiivi.in.helsinki.fi [128.214.182.107]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id HAA17116 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 07:48:13 +0800 Received: from liw by cupido.cs.hut.fi with local (Exim 2.11 #1 (Debian)) for ldp-l@linux.org.au id 10sxQn-0002y8-00; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 02:43:21 +0300 From: Lars Wirzenius MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Mailing list issues (doesn't anyone ever change the subject when the topic of discussion changes?) In-Reply-To: <19990611142727.D712@barberouge.linux.lmm.com> Mail-Copies-To: never X-No-Archive: yes Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 23:43:20 GMT Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-md5"; boundary="130.233.193.44.9849.1610.929231000.571.18819"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk This is a MIME message. --130.233.193.44.9849.1610.929231000.571.18819 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Guylhem Aznar : > No, you're right there, but then we should have ldp-public and > ldp-authors, on list.linuxdoc.org for consistency. Our "ldp-public" is spelled "ldp-discuss", of course. If you want to have ldp-private or ldp-authors, go ahead and ask listmaster@debian.org to create the list. We may want to move the ldp-l-announce list to our own domain as well. -- = Stupid little mailer under construction, sorry for any problems. --130.233.193.44.9849.1610.929231000.571.18819 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: GnuPG v0.9.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iQCVAwUAN2LwmIQRll5MupLRAQEnKwP/RXECaM6oa/F+Wq0Y5B+jT2dJi1AKf8ud RqRtjeCHMit1MWofAfOwdRBCd7ExkL4XLu64e8ZT5EUDKa/bbXVvvyeqxeC2DQec wW+mPp/Jrck/5SonWVL95g9PwdrsrbeqW+5FM84WXRyRjikBXOzFKQsAcjpOx8YY BvI1DNW3Ozk= =CDHt -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --130.233.193.44.9849.1610.929231000.571.18819-- This was a MIME message. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id QAA16245 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 16:41:01 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id QAA06431 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 16:40:56 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id OAA20142 for ldp-l-list; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 14:34:38 +0800 Received: from inf.ufrgs.br (caracol.inf.ufrgs.br [143.54.11.7]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id OAA20135 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 14:34:25 +0800 Received: from doncarlo.inf.ufrgs.br (jacui [143.54.11.130]) by inf.ufrgs.br (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA13538 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 03:29:54 -0300 (EST) Received: from localhost (casantos@localhost) by doncarlo.inf.ufrgs.br (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA01097 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 05:31:25 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: doncarlo.inf.ufrgs.br: casantos owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 05:31:24 +0000 (GMT) From: Carlos A M dos Santos To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Flame war (was: sgml etc) In-Reply-To: <19990612231130.A15750@thyrsus.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On Sat, 12 Jun 1999, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > Mr. Poet : > > If you are going to be an ass do it somewhere else. I am getting a > > little sick of your holier than though attitude towards everyone. It > > doesn't freaking matter if it has been explained several times. > > You don't have standing to call Lars Wirzenius "holier than thou" > until you've contributed at least one hundredth of what he has to the > LDP, to Linux, and to open source in general. I confidently predict > that hell will freeze over before that ever happens. Although I don't endorse Mr. Poet's rude words, I must agree with him that Lars has a very offensive attitude, most of the time. > In the meantime, the best favor you can do us is to take your cutesy > handle, your adolescent attitude, your abysmal ignorance, and your > unsolicited opinions elsewhere. Interesting combination of delicate words. I never had the opportunity to read an ESR's flame. My life will never be the same again. Probably none will survive here enough time to contribute one hundredth of what Mr Wirzenius has to the LDP, to Linux, and to open source in general. Casantos From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id VAA18359 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 21:25:24 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id VAA06621 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 21:25:20 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id TAA21849 for ldp-l-list; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 19:17:18 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from cupido.cs.hut.fi (balalaikka.in.helsinki.fi [128.214.182.113]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id TAA21845 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 19:17:12 +0800 Received: from liw by cupido.cs.hut.fi with local (Exim 2.11 #1 (Debian)) for ldp-l@linux.org.au id 10t8BQ-0005mV-00; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 14:12:12 +0300 From: Lars Wirzenius MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Flamage In-Reply-To: <199906130234.TAA21534@ezwebhost.com> Mail-Copies-To: never X-No-Archive: yes Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 11:12:10 GMT Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-md5"; boundary="130.233.193.44.9849.1610.929272331.756.9899"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk This is a MIME message. --130.233.193.44.9849.1610.929272331.756.9899 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Don't send me copies of replies you also send to the list, please. (And trim your quotes, please.) "Mr. Poet" : > If you are going to be an ass do it somewhere else. I am getting a = > little sick of your holier than though attitude towards everyone. Tough. I see no reason not to be holier than thou as long as thou isn't getting anything done, except endless filling of the wrong list. (General thou; Mr Poet at least offered to become the leader -- even if his ideas of what the project is about were wrong -- and take over unmaintained howtos.) > It doesn't freaking matter if it has been explained several times. Of course it matters. If everything has to be explained to every LDP author separately, the project isn't ever going to get anything done. > Some people don't read there mail every day. Just send them to = > the URL and be done with it. Every day? Or every year? However, perhaps I have provoked the LDP enough for now, and perhaps people will now actually get something done. -- = Stupid little mailer under construction, sorry for any problems. --130.233.193.44.9849.1610.929272331.756.9899 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: GnuPG v0.9.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iQCVAwUAN2OSC4QRll5MupLRAQGz9wQAzbMCsgNywf6WiKK/Ev7ME1uPhBEr87C5 SU5IflMwWOQg7KlMeJz2yEwbowi2tMXWaYLSGjrrAiyPT67h86stV32lON68DCoi Xd3rBO8SmpNM4+7fEqaXB1nFM/F0UaAAlrwSoZKiyityy7M9EJPDuu4JRN8dxJHD 5hx7LLaTfPQ= =TI+6 -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --130.233.193.44.9849.1610.929272331.756.9899-- This was a MIME message. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA19597 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 02:08:30 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id CAA07983 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 02:08:27 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id XAA22888 for ldp-l-list; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 23:59:05 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from lafn.org (lafn.ORG [206.117.18.1]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id XAA22883 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 23:59:02 +0800 Received: by lafn.org id AA14953 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ldp-l@linux.org.au); Sun, 13 Jun 1999 08:58:47 -0700 Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 08:58:47 -0700 Message-Id: <199906131558.AA14953@lafn.org> From: bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer) To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: Info for LDP authors (was: Flame war (was: sgml etc)) Reply-To: bf347@lafn.org Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Casantos wrote: >Although I don't endorse Mr. Poet's rude words, I must agree with him that >Lars has a very offensive attitude, most of the time. I didn't think there was anything much wrong with Lars post that started all this. Yes, it was brusk, and humerous at the expense of a new LDP author. But it did answer some of the questions asked. I laughed at the part where Lars wrote: "If you don't know what LDP stands for, you're on the wrong list". Although Lars wrote: "There _has_ been explanations of these [sgml programs, etc.] on ldp-l several times. Please pay attention." I don't recall seeing any explanation suitable for someone who knows nothing about sgml. I don't recall of ever seeing an explanation of what jade was and only found out a little about it from this post by Lars. Some of this info needs to go into the section "Writing and Submitting a HOWTO" which is part of the HOWTO-INDEX. Also of interest are the various sgml and jade packages available in various Linux distributions (Debian has some --perhaps the most). I retract my previous suggestion that this sort of info should be put into a separate document. However, one could email the "Writing and Submitting a HOWTO" section to all new authors (and perhaps all active authors) so that it would in some sense be a separate document. Keeping it in the HOWTO-INDEX is a good idea since people looking up a HOWTO might notice it and decide to become a HOWTO author. -- Dave Lawyer From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id DAA20081 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 03:59:57 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id DAA08022 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 03:59:52 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id BAA23264 for ldp-l-list; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 01:51:17 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from ezwebhost.com (root@www10.ezwebhost.com [207.149.40.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA23260 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 01:51:12 +0800 Received: from blacky (host134-37.iwbc.net [216.23.134.37]) by ezwebhost.com (8.9.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA02372 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 10:52:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199906131752.KAA02372@ezwebhost.com> From: "Mr. Poet" Organization: LinuxPorts Software To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 10:49:28 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Howto Howto Reply-to: poet@linuxports.com X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Hello, If people are interested I would be willing to write a HOWTO - HOWTO.. or at least expand on the informaton we have already. Poet --poet@linuxports.com--ICQ: 33017215 --http://www.linuxports.com-- Author: Consultants, Commercial, VAR Howto Visit the LDP: http://www.linuxdoc.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id LAA22649 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:09:43 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id LAA08573 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:09:38 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id JAA01975 for ldp-l-list; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:00:10 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from scicom.alphacdc.com (IDENT:4@scicom.alphacdc.com [192.88.125.1]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA01971 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:00:06 +0800 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by scicom.alphacdc.com (8.8.8/8.8.8-ACDC) with UUCP id SAA03560 for ldp-l@linux.org.au; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 18:59:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from vern@localhost) by zebra.alphacdc.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SVH06391; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 18:59:19 -0600 Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 18:59:19 -0600 Message-Id: <199906140059.SVH06391@zebra.alphacdc.com> From: Vern Hoxie To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: LDP marketting. Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On Sun, 13 Jun 1999, Guylhem Aznar wrote: > Maybe I would like a discussion about LDP role, what we have done so > far, and what could we do or improve in the future. > > I hope we will spread the idea of reading an HOWTO before asking on > usenet. > > --=20 > Guylhem Aznar, Linux Documentation Project leader: http://metalab.unc.edu/L= > DP/ Are you going resume the monthly posting of the HOWTO's to comp.os.linux.answers? Will you please figure out how to get rid of those "=20" which litter your messages? vern -- Vernon C. Hoxie vern@zebra.alphacdc.com 3975 W. 29th Ave. uucp: 303-455-2670 Denver, Colo., 80212 voice: 303-477-1780 A person is not old until regrets take the place of dreams. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id LAA22957 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:41:21 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id LAA08596 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:41:17 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id JAA02185 for ldp-l-list; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:32:03 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from scicom.alphacdc.com (IDENT:4@scicom.alphacdc.com [192.88.125.1]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA02180 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:31:57 +0800 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by scicom.alphacdc.com (8.8.8/8.8.8-ACDC) with UUCP id TAA04134 for ldp-l@linux.org.au; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 19:31:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from vern@localhost) by zebra.alphacdc.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TVH06447; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 19:31:02 -0600 Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 19:31:02 -0600 Message-Id: <199906140131.TVH06447@zebra.alphacdc.com> From: Vern Hoxie To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: sgml etc Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On 12 Jun 1999, Lars Wirzenius wrote: > Vern Hoxie : >> With all this discussion about LinuxDoc, DocBook, SGMLtools, sgmltool, = > >> SGMLTools, RTF, LDP etc. What do the abreviations mean? Where can >> they be obtained? Note the stupid "=" and the distraction of the added newline > There _has_ been explanations of these on ldp-l several times. Please > pay attention. Thanks, but I haven't been here since forever. > SGML is a method for defining document markup languages. It is not > a markup language itself. LinuxDoc and DocBook are two such markup > languages. SGML-Tools (spelled in various ways) is one set of tools > for processing LinuxDoc (versions before 2.0) and DocBook (later > versions). It is not the only such set of software; Jade and Jadetex > are two other pieces of such software. I was under the impression, from Greg Hankins, that SGML was the markup language. It is supposed to be able to translate to other languages such as "troff", "info", "TeX", "HTML" etc. > URLs to the DocBook definition have floated on the list. I'm too > lazy to look them up for you. Then why did you bother to answer? That was the meat of my enquiry. > See your Linux distribution for a package to install the software. My "Linux distribution" is metalab. That like trying to find a fish nameed "Spike" in the Pacific Ocean. > RTF is short for Rich Text Format, a markup language meant for document > interchange that works rather badly, but is popular among Windows users. Thank you. > If you don't know what LDP stands for, you're on the wrong list. Thank you. Blah! >> How did "sgml-powertools" fit into the current evolution? Why doesn't = > >> it work at all? Note the stupid "=" and the distraction of the added newline. > I've never heard of sgml-powertools (nor do I use SGML-tools, > incidentally). Try ftp://ftp.metlab.unc.edu/pub/Linux/docs >> What is the recommended version to use currently? > HOWTOs have been marked up in LinuxDoc for many years, but since > it is a bad language for its purpose, we are switching to DocBook. That's nice. But I still don't know where to find info about it. vern -- Vernon C. Hoxie vern@zebra.alphacdc.com 3975 W. 29th Ave. uucp: 303-455-2670 Denver, Colo., 80212 voice: 303-477-1780 A person is not old until regrets take the place of dreams. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id LAA22986 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:44:54 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id LAA08607 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:44:49 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id JAA02248 for ldp-l-list; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:38:07 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from scicom.alphacdc.com (IDENT:4@scicom.alphacdc.com [192.88.125.1]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA02244 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:38:03 +0800 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by scicom.alphacdc.com (8.8.8/8.8.8-ACDC) with UUCP id TAA04211 for ldp-l@linux.org.au; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 19:37:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from vern@localhost) by zebra.alphacdc.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TVH06455; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 19:37:20 -0600 Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 19:37:20 -0600 Message-Id: <199906140137.TVH06455@zebra.alphacdc.com> From: Vern Hoxie To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: sgml etc Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On Sat, 12 Jun 1999, Mr. Poet wrote: > Lars, > > If you are going to be an ass do it somewhere else. I am getting a > little sick of your holier than though attitude towards everyone. It > doesn't freaking matter if it has been explained several times. > > Some people don't read there mail every day. Just send them to > the URL and be done with it. Well Poet, I didn't see any URL's in your posting either. Thanks for not using that stupid editor which litters the messages with "=20"s. vern -- Vernon C. Hoxie vern@zebra.alphacdc.com 3975 W. 29th Ave. uucp: 303-455-2670 Denver, Colo., 80212 voice: 303-477-1780 A person is not old until regrets take the place of dreams. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id OAA23840 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 14:02:09 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id OAA08717 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 14:02:05 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id LAA03034 for ldp-l-list; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:56:06 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from ezwebhost.com (root@www10.ezwebhost.com [207.149.40.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id LAA03030 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:56:02 +0800 Received: from blacky (host134-37.iwbc.net [216.23.134.37]) by ezwebhost.com (8.9.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA10260 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 20:57:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199906140357.UAA10260@ezwebhost.com> From: "Mr. Poet" Organization: LinuxPorts Software To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 20:53:16 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Required Reading Reply-to: poet@linuxports.com X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Very interesting for those of you who have not. It regards Docbook ,DSSL, XML and the LDP http://www.ntlug.org/~kclark/roadmap/ --poet@linuxports.com--ICQ: 33017215 --http://www.linuxports.com-- Author: Consultants, Commercial, VAR Howto Visit the LDP: http://www.linuxdoc.org From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id PAA24274 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 15:27:42 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id PAA08787 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 15:27:37 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id NAA03613 for ldp-l-list; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 13:20:27 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from wallybox.cei.net (tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net [204.180.109.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id NAA03609 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 13:20:16 +0800 Received: from localhost (tjbynum@localhost) by wallybox.cei.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id AAA24633 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 00:21:48 -0500 Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 00:21:47 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim - HOWTO Coordinator To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: Outdated Docs [extended] In-Reply-To: <19990611141548.A712@barberouge.linux.lmm.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Hi, Due to the responses I've gotten, I've extended the move to "unmaintained" until this Friday (18th). Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id WAA10990 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 22:15:25 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id WAA09926 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 22:15:20 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id TAA06411 for ldp-l-list; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 19:54:59 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from wallybox.cei.net (ldp-info@wallybox.cei.net [204.180.109.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id TAA06407 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 19:54:54 +0800 Received: from localhost (ldp-info@localhost) by wallybox.cei.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id GAA26186 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 06:56:44 -0500 Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 06:56:43 -0500 (CDT) From: LDP Author Information To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Author Updates Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Hello All, Please update the following information and send it back to this address (ldp-info@wallybox.cei.net) N: Name E: email address S: snail mail P: phone F: Fax D: description (what you wrote as it appears eg. MyLinux-HOWTO) NO: notes W: WWW B: Bank Account If you would like me to have any other information put it in the "notes" section and drop me a line at tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net if you'd like to see it on this form and I'll add it if enough suggestions come my way. Please send this back to this address and this address *only*. Send inquiries to tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net All information is kept confidential, so give me what you want me to have. We will start doing this every 3 months (more oftne if need be). I have a beta form ready, but it needs more tweaking, so live with the form this go 'round and I'll make it up to you in the future. Thanks for all your hard work and patience! It's greatly appreciated... Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id DAA12524 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 03:28:32 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id DAA10509 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 03:28:29 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id BAA08190 for ldp-l-list; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 01:15:09 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from lafn.org (lafn.ORG [206.117.18.1]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id BAA08186 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 01:15:06 +0800 Received: by lafn.org id AA26765 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ldp-l@linux.org.au); Mon, 14 Jun 1999 10:14:50 -0700 Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 10:14:50 -0700 Message-Id: <199906141714.AA26765@lafn.org> From: bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer) To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: sgml etc Reply-To: bf347@lafn.org Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk >> Vern Hoxie wrote: >I was under the impression, from Greg Hankins, that SGML was the >markup language. It is supposed to be able to translate to other >languages such as "troff", "info", "TeX", "HTML" etc. Looking at the HOWTO-INDEX gives one this impression when is says that you don't necessarily have to use sgml for mini-howtos. This (and other info [misinfo ?] regarding sgml) needs fixing by Tim Bynum, the author of this HOWTO. Note that Mr. Poet has also volunteered to do it. (He's willing to write a HOWTO-HOWTO but this topic is already in HOWTO-INDEX.). So I hope someone will give a clear explanation of sgml in this HOWTO and mention that LDP is eventually converting to the sgml flavor of docbook. Also, since there are a lot of old messages, etc. out there that use "sgml" to mean "linuxdoc-sgml" (and not "docbook-sgml") this needs to be noted. On second thought, maybe we do need a HOWTO-HOWTO. Make a short note about it in HOWTO-INDEX. >My "Linux distribution" is metalab. That like trying to find a fish >nameed "Spike" in the Pacific Ocean. When I first read this I didn't get it because I didn't think metalab was a distribution. They do have archives of source code but no package management such as one finds in distributions such as Debian and Red Hat. One could download this stuff from metalab and compile each package using it's makefile. I assume that's what you're doing. Isn't this a lot of extra work? And what about removing the package? In Debian, etc. you just mark the package for removal and the files that are widely scattered in your file system all get removed. -- Dave Lawyer From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id DAA12574 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 03:37:55 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id DAA10522 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 03:37:51 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id BAA08240 for ldp-l-list; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 01:24:02 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from inf.ufrgs.br (caracol.inf.ufrgs.br [143.54.11.7]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA08217 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 01:17:43 +0800 Received: from spica (spica [143.54.8.9]) by inf.ufrgs.br (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA22514 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 14:12:51 -0300 (EST) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 14:19:16 -0300 (EST) From: Carlos A M dos Santos X-Sender: casantos@spica Reply-To: ldp-l@linux.org.au To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: SGMLtools 1.0.10 is out! In-Reply-To: <19990614093644.55986@zen.stanford.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Hello As promissed some time ago (please don't remember me how much time :-) I'm releasing somethig I call SGMLtools 1.0.10, because I don't have a better name. It is available at http://www.inf.ufrgs.br/~casantos/SGMLtools/ Files names are self-explanatory. I used bzip2 to compress the files at maximun possible rate. Our bandwidth is not very good, so I recommend you to download at the late hours. I hope you find it useful. Casantos From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id DAA12604 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 03:43:14 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id DAA10536 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 03:43:11 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id BAA08298 for ldp-l-list; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 01:30:31 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from lafn.org (lafn.ORG [206.117.18.1]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id BAA08294 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 01:30:26 +0800 Received: by lafn.org id AA29105 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ldp-l@linux.org.au); Mon, 14 Jun 1999 10:30:13 -0700 Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 10:30:13 -0700 Message-Id: <199906141730.AA29105@lafn.org> From: bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer) To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: Outdated Docs [extended] Reply-To: bf347@lafn.org Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Tim Bynum wrote >Due to the responses I've gotten, I've extended the move to "unmaintained" >until this Friday (18th). Could you post a list of these here so that people can object if they think that it should not go to "unmaintained". There are mini-howtos on certain models of hardware that are just as valid as when they were written. For example, the ones on multiport serial cards I would not like to see put into "unmaintained". -- Dave Lawyer From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id DAA12668 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 03:57:17 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id DAA10548 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 03:57:14 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id BAA08417 for ldp-l-list; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 01:44:44 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from morgana.systemy.it (jumpy.systemy.it [194.20.140.62]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA08413 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 01:44:36 +0800 Received: (from rubini@localhost) by morgana.systemy.it (8.8.4/8.8.4) id TAA16131; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 19:44:22 +0200 Message-ID: <19990614194422.64734@morgana.systemy.it> Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 19:44:22 +0200 From: Alessandro Rubini To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: net-3-howto, any taker? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1 Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Due to some bad choices on the workplace, I have had no time to study anything in the last months and it looks like I won't have it in the foreseeable future. I didn't even have time to check if it should be renamed to net-4 or whatelse. Therefore, it makes no sense for me to keep hold of the howto and let such an important document starve, therefore please consider it on sale. If nobody is willing to take over maintainance I could set up a mailing list @prosa.it to host a group cooperating on the project, and be part of that group (but most like not the leader or coordinator). /alessandro From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA12754 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 04:16:17 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id EAA10564 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 04:16:14 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id BAA08459 for ldp-l-list; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 01:50:02 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from wallybox.cei.net (tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net [204.180.109.6]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA08455 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 01:49:56 +0800 Received: from localhost (tjbynum@localhost) by wallybox.cei.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA28287 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 12:51:59 -0500 Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 12:51:58 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim - HOWTO Coordinator To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: Outdated Docs [extended] In-Reply-To: <199906141730.AA29105@lafn.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Hell, Before I say anything, undertand that I am *not* being a horses butt, but doing what I feel is best for the time being. > Could you post a list of these here so that people can object if they > think that it should not go to "unmaintained". There are mini-howtos on > certain models of hardware that are just as valid as when they were written. > For example, the ones on multiport serial cards I would not like to see > put into "unmaintained". [David] Yes and no... Yes I will post the list, but not until this Friday. For a couple of reasons, but mostly because I feel giving a little more time (longer than a week) is a little more fair. I've taken the initiative (should have a while back) to contact them and get their attention, so I'd like at this time not to open it all upt to the list for a discussion that will drag on. Friday I'll post to the list with all docs that have been moved. I just want to see this through, that is all. No hidden agenda... Fair enough? Best Regards, Tim -- Linux HOWTO coordinator tjbynum@metalab.unc.edu, linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu (HOWTO's) tjbynum@wallybox.cei.net (Home) tbynum@rineco.com (Work) http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager) D I P C The system that enables you to write distributed programs.......the easy way! http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id FAA12955 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 05:01:26 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id FAA10590 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 05:01:22 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id CAA08684 for ldp-l-list; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 02:53:05 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from lafn.org (lafn.ORG [206.117.18.1]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id CAA08680 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 02:53:01 +0800 Received: by lafn.org id AA13351 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ldp-l@linux.org.au); Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:52:49 -0700 Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:52:49 -0700 Message-Id: <199906141852.AA13351@lafn.org> From: bf347@lafn.org (David Lawyer) To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: SGMLtools 1.0.10 is out! Reply-To: bf347@lafn.org Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk Casantos wrote: >As promissed some time ago (please don't remember me how much time :-) I'm >releasing somethig I call SGMLtools 1.0.10, because I don't have a better >name. > >It is available at > > http://www.inf.ufrgs.br/~casantos/SGMLtools/ I took the liberty of forwarding this announcement to the maintainer of the Debian package: sgml-tools. I asked him to make this a Debian package. (He may or may not do so.) Then it can be easily converted to a RPM (RedHat, etc.) package. So I'm waiting to see if I can get it in package format before downloading it. -- Dave Lawyer From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id UAA17313 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 20:19:15 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id UAA11328 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 20:19:12 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id SAA24103 for ldp-l-list; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 18:02:43 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from scicom.alphacdc.com (IDENT:4@scicom.alphacdc.com [192.88.125.1]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id SAA24099 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 18:02:38 +0800 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by scicom.alphacdc.com (8.8.8/8.8.8-ACDC) with UUCP id EAA12404 for ldp-l@linux.org.au; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 04:02:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from vern@localhost) by zebra.alphacdc.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EVH08573; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 04:01:52 -0600 Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 04:01:52 -0600 Message-Id: <199906151001.EVH08573@zebra.alphacdc.com> From: Vern Hoxie To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: LDP license Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On Tue, 15 Jun 1999, Richard Stallman wrote: > GNU Documentation License Version 1.0 > DRAFT I am not a bit interested in having GNU affiliated with my work. When RMS tried to absord Linux, I became apprehensive about his political objectives. Specifically: > The "Nontechnical Sections" refers to certain sections of the > Incoming Version, which deal exclusively with nontechnical matters > (such as the political opinions, career histories or legal positions > of the authors), and which are named as Nontechnical Sections in the > notice saying that the Incoming Version was released under this > license. Later: > E. Do not alter or remove any of the listed Nontechnical Sections. > F. Do not change the section titles of any of the Nontechnical Sections. So if someone puts political opinions into a HOWTO and I take over maintenence of it, I have to continue to promulgate those ideas evem though I disagree. Blah!! These are supposed to be Technical Manuals and not a venue for espousing political opinions. Especially Socialistic opinions. vern -- Vernon C. Hoxie vern@zebra.alphacdc.com 3975 W. 29th Ave. uucp: 303-455-2670 Denver, Colo., 80212 voice: 303-477-1780 Souvenirs are perishable; fortunately, memories are not. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id XAA18090 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 23:08:25 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id XAA12248 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 23:08:21 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id UAA25319 for ldp-l-list; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 20:56:02 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from scicom.alphacdc.com (IDENT:4@scicom.alphacdc.com [192.88.125.1]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id UAA25315 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 20:55:53 +0800 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by scicom.alphacdc.com (8.8.8/8.8.8-ACDC) with UUCP id GAA14626 for ldp-l@linux.org.au; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 06:55:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from vern@localhost) by zebra.alphacdc.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GVH09331; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 06:55:08 -0600 Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 06:55:08 -0600 Message-Id: <199906151255.GVH09331@zebra.alphacdc.com> From: Vern Hoxie To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: Required Reading Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On Sun, 13 Jun 1999, Kendall Clark wrote: > If you're interested, my very preliminary sketch of the issues > involved in the LDP using DocBook fully and well may be found at: > > http://ntlug.org/ldp-dbwg/outline.html That's nice. Now how about a URL that works? vern -- Vernon C. Hoxie vern@zebra.alphacdc.com 3975 W. 29th Ave. uucp: 303-455-2670 Denver, Colo., 80212 voice: 303-477-1780 Souvenirs are perishable; fortunately, memories are not. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA18868 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 01:47:47 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA12321 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 01:47:43 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id XAA26389 for ldp-l-list; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 23:34:53 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from ppp01-131.algx.iadfw.net (IDENT:kclark@ppp01-626.algx.iadfw.net [207.136.25.118]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id XAA26385 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 23:34:48 +0800 Received: (from kclark@localhost) by ppp01-131.algx.iadfw.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA21798; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 10:34:24 -0500 From: Kendall Clark MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14182.29311.981249.217478@ppp01-131.algx.iadfw.net> Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 10:34:23 -0500 (CDT) To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: Required Reading In-Reply-To: <199906151255.GVH09331@zebra.alphacdc.com> References: <199906151255.GVH09331@zebra.alphacdc.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.71 under 21.0 "20 minutes to Nikko" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: kclark@ntlug.org Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Vern" == Vern Hoxie writes: Vern> On Sun, 13 Jun 1999, Kendall Clark wrote: >> If you're interested, my very preliminary sketch of the issues >> involved in the LDP using DocBook fully and well may be found >> at: >> >> http://ntlug.org/ldp-dbwg/outline.html Vern> That's nice. Now how about a URL that works? Works fine from every computer I have. What's the problem? Best, Kendall -- ``If you've got a blacklist, I wanna be on it.'' --Billy Bragg From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id IAA20862 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 08:28:44 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id IAA13043 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 08:28:40 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id GAA27294 for ldp-l-list; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 06:20:58 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from scicom.alphacdc.com (IDENT:4@scicom.alphacdc.com [192.88.125.1]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id GAA27290 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 06:20:53 +0800 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by scicom.alphacdc.com (8.8.8/8.8.8-ACDC) with UUCP id QAA28173 for ldp-l@linux.org.au; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 16:20:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from vern@localhost) by zebra.alphacdc.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QVH10027; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 16:20:05 -0600 Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 16:20:05 -0600 Message-Id: <199906152220.QVH10027@zebra.alphacdc.com> From: Vern Hoxie To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Re: LDP license Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On Tue, 15 Jun 1999, Daniel Barlow wrote: > There are other non-political reasons for needing to define sections > of a document as unchangeable, not least of which is the license > section itself. Nobody even mentioned politics until you did. Read the suggested copyright from RMS more carefully. Also, when quoting me, please have the ethical responsibility to quote in context of what I wrote. >From my original posting but unceremonially omitted from Daniel's response: >> The "Nontechnical Sections" refers to certain sections of the >> Incoming Version, which deal exclusively with nontechnical matters >> (such as the political opinions, career histories or legal positions >> of the authors), and which are named as Nontechnical Sections in the >> notice saying that the Incoming Version was released under this >> license. This is an excerpt from RMS's suggested copyright. What is that fourth word following the opening parenthesis? vern -- Vernon C. Hoxie vern@zebra.alphacdc.com 3975 W. 29th Ave. uucp: 303-455-2670 Denver, Colo., 80212 voice: 303-477-1780 Souvenirs are perishable; fortunately, memories are not. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id MAA22048 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 12:05:42 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id MAA13197 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 12:05:36 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id JAA28755 for ldp-l-list; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 09:59:44 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from scicom.alphacdc.com (IDENT:4@scicom.alphacdc.com [192.88.125.1]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA28751 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 09:59:39 +0800 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by scicom.alphacdc.com (8.8.8/8.8.8-ACDC) with UUCP id TAA02015; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 19:59:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from vern@localhost) by zebra.alphacdc.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TVH10363; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 19:58:48 -0600 Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 19:58:48 -0600 Message-Id: <199906160158.TVH10363@zebra.alphacdc.com> From: Vern Hoxie To: ldp-l@linux.org.au Subject: Dog poop Cc: guylhem@oeil.qc.ca Sender: owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au Precedence: bulk On Wed, 16 Jun 1999, Guylhem Aznar wrote: > On Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 06:59:19PM -0600, Vern Hoxie wrote: >> Will you please figure out how to get rid of those "=3D20" which litter >> your messages? > It is mime, because my messages are PGP signed. Why can others post with mime and PGP without the silly dog poop scattered throughout their messages? Check with: > Michael B. Trausch > President of Linux Operations, ADK Computers > http://adk.hypermart.net/ He is one who manages to post to the kernel mailing list without the garbage. vern -- Vernon C. Hoxie vern@zebra.alphacdc.com 3975 W. 29th Ave. uucp: 303-455-2670 Denver, Colo., 80212 voice: 303-477-1780 Souvenirs are perishable; fortunately, memories are not. From - Mon Sep 24 21:15:45 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from tao.linux.org.au (root@tao.linux.org.au [203.41.101.121]) by albert.aapra.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id WAA24972 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 22:46:53 +1000 Received: from digital.linux.org.au (root@digital.linux.org.au [203.33.198.196]) by tao.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id WAA16485 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 22:46:49 +1000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id TAA12210 for ldp-l-list; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 19:45:28 +0800 X-Authentication-Warning: digital.linux.org.au: majordom set sender to owner-ldp-l@linux.org.au using -f Received: from zen.ics.uwe.ac.uk (IDENT:root@zen.ics.uwe.ac.uk [164.11.100.4]) by digital.linux.org.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id TAA12206 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 19:45:18 +0800 Received: (from barlow@localhost) by zen.ics.uwe.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.8.7) id MAA10213; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 12:42:58 +0100 Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 12:42:53 +0100 From: Daniel Barlow To: ldp-l@linux.org.au, ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org Subject: New list ldp-docbook@lists.linuxdoc.org Message-ID: <19990616124253.D3037@zen.ics.uwe.ac.uk> References: <199906130234.TAA21534@ezwebhost.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: