From owner-riscy@pyramid.com  Wed Aug 11 12:37:47 1993
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From: Andreas Busse <andy@resi.waldorf-gmbh.de>
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 93 18:28:18 +0200
Message-Id: <9308111628.AA00330@resi.waldorf-gmbh.de>
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To: riscy@pyramid.com
Subject: MIPS Magnum 4000 parts
Sender: owner-riscy@pyramid.com
Reply-To: riscy@pyramid.com


Here I am again, and my box is still working :-)

I had no time to totally disassemble my machine, 
therefore I couldn't identify some of the chips
located under the power supply.

I have found:

- a R4000PC/50 :-)

- handwritten stickers on the prom & and on the Dallas clock
  (one of the first Magnum 4000's ever produced...)

- four Intel chips for the EISA bus:
  2x 82358-33
  2x 82352

- National DP83932 Ethernet controller

- NCR 5390 SCSI controller

- 3 LSI Logic chips (couldn't read part names)
  1 large,
  2 smaller ones,
  perhaps (probably ?) similar to the NEC parts

- a NEC chip N82077 (don't know, FDC ?)

- two more chips, couldn't read part names,
  probably serial/parallel stuff.

Video is on a separate card (INMOS chip).

None of the stuff is on the EISA bus, at least none
of the four EISA slots is used.

The most interesting things are the LSI Logic parts.
I'll try to get informations from LSI, but our contact
isn't very good. Please, can somebody contact LSI and
ask them what support chips they offer for R4000 CPUs ?

Hope this helps a bit...

Andy

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Waldorf Electronics GmbH        | Phone:  +49 (0)2636-80294
              R&D Department            | Fax:    +49 (0)2636-80188
Neustrasse 9-12, 53498 Waldorf, Germany | email:  andy@resi.waldorf-gmbh.de
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From owner-riscy@pyramid.com  Thu Aug 12 02:11:02 1993
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Date: Thu, 12 Aug 93 08:07:27 +0200
From: wolff@zen.et.tudelft.nl (Rogier Wolff)
Message-Id: <9308120607.AA20321@zen.et.tudelft.nl>
To: riscy@pyramid.com
Subject: Re:  MIPS Magnum 4000 parts
Sender: owner-riscy@pyramid.com
Reply-To: riscy@pyramid.com

	> 
	> No, it's completely incompatibel, from all 3 points of view:
	> - connector (different pin spacing)
	> - hardware  (different signals)
	> - software  (probably, don't really know)
	> 

	You need to tell that to my motherboard.  ISA boards run just fine in EISA
	slot connectors (I know, I do it).  The pin spacing is different  in the sense
	that there are double the number of pins and they are spaced 
	vertically one above another.  I don't know all the tech details,
	 but ISA boards simply make
	contact with only their required signals and do not interfere with the added
	bus signals for EISA control.

The trick is that EISA and ISA are completely different, howevery through
an engineering trick they managed to put the two conectors in the same place
in such a way that there wouldn't be a motherboard realestate penalty for
having both busses.

				Roger.
 
From owner-riscy@pyramid.com  Thu Aug 12 02:24:20 1993
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Date: Thu, 12 Aug 93 08:21:31 +0200
From: wolff@zen.et.tudelft.nl (Rogier Wolff)
Message-Id: <9308120621.AA20348@zen.et.tudelft.nl>
To: riscy@pyramid.com
Subject: Re:  MIPS Magnum 4000 parts
Sender: owner-riscy@pyramid.com
Reply-To: riscy@pyramid.com

> The trick is that EISA and ISA are completely different, however through
> an engineering trick they managed to put the two conectors in the same place
> in such a way that there wouldn't be a motherboard realestate penalty for
> having both busses.

On second though, I can't substantiate the "completely different" part.
I just don't know. However the fact that someone has an EISA system, which
will take ISA cards doesn't mean that the ARCset supports the ISA part on
the EISA connectors. 

Note that from what I've heard, a large portion of the price difference
between a simple 486 board and an EISA board comes from the EISA 
connectors (i.e. they are -=* very *=- expensive).

					Roger.

 
From owner-riscy@pyramid.com  Thu Aug 12 23:18:08 1993
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Date: Thu, 12 Aug 93 07:23 PDT
From: adyer@zarniwoop.chi.il.us (Andrew Dyer)
To: riscy@pyramid.com
Cc: riscy@pyramid.com
In-Reply-To: Rogier Wolff's message of Thu, 12 Aug 93 08:21:31 +0200 <9308120621.AA20348@zen.et.tudelft.nl>
Subject:  MIPS Magnum 4000 parts
Sender: owner-riscy@pyramid.com
Reply-To: riscy@pyramid.com

   Date: Thu, 12 Aug 93 08:21:31 +0200
   From: wolff@zen.et.tudelft.nl (Rogier Wolff)
   Sender: owner-riscy@pyramid.com
   Reply-To: riscy@pyramid.com

   > The trick is that EISA and ISA are completely different, however through
   > an engineering trick they managed to put the two conectors in the same place
   > in such a way that there wouldn't be a motherboard realestate penalty for
   > having both busses.

   On second though, I can't substantiate the "completely different" part.
   I just don't know. However the fact that someone has an EISA system, which
   will take ISA cards doesn't mean that the ARCset supports the ISA part on
   the EISA connectors. 

EISA basically adds another 16 data bits to the 16 on the ISA bus
using a mechanical trick with the connector.  They also add some
specific EISA control signals.  The main "good thing" about EISA is
that all of the bus signals are sampled relative to a clock (no async
bus bullshit!).

The main trick is that since the ISA bus is asynchronous, all they had
to do was send out the correct signals at the correct clock periods,
and most ISA cards should work.  EISA supports ISA xfers to or from
other ISA boards, EISA boards, and/or platform resources.  EISA has
slot specific I/O addressing for EISA cards, and can arbitrate for the
bus using something other than the DMA controller :-o (although that
is supported).  EISA supports fast 8/16/32 bit cycles to memory, and
fast 8/16 bit cycles to I/O.  EISA has burst xfer modes.


--------------------------------------Ich mo"chte ein Eisba"r sein!
(1) adyer@zarniwoop.chi.il.us
(2) adyer@usr.com
 
