From caret@pyramid.com  Ukn Jul  4 00:25:28 1993
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From: caret@pyramid.com (Neil Russell)
Message-Id: <9307040424.AA17743@sword.eng.pyramid.com>
Subject: General issues
To: riscy@pyramid.com
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 93 21:24:29 PDT
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Much discussion on the list has resulted in most people almost agreeing
with everyone else.  There are still small differences which reflect
each person's intended use of this system.  A final solution will not
result unless everyone is willing to compromise.

Many of the small details, such as how many serial ports, parallel
ports, floppy, etc have essentially been voted on.  The major issues
however must now be resolved.  Below is a list of topics that must
be resolved before we can start to create schematics:

	*  Peripheral controller
		Should we use the IDT 79R3730, or design our own?
		Should we use a IDT 79R3041 CPU as an I/O controller?
	*  Should we have an ISA bus or a simpler bus?
		ISA is more practical, but a new simple 8-bit bus is
		cheaper and free of the ISA IBM-ness.
	*  Should we have SCSI?
		SCSI for this board will probably be much cheaper and
		probably faster than something like Adaptec.
	*  Should we have video?
		Video is looking to be the most expensive option on
		the whole board, but some say its essential.
	*  Should we have ethernet?

Other issues such as keyboard, RTC, NVRAM, serial, parallel, floppy
disk drives, ISDN, SNA, T1 and the Coke machine interface are not that
important until these issues are resolved.  Please address yourselves
to these issues so that we can come to a decision in the next week or
so.


Thanks,
	Neil.
-- 
Neil Russell		(The wizard from OZ)
Pyramid Technology			Email:  caret@pyramid.com
3860 N. First Street			Voice:  (408) 428-7302
San Jose, CA 95134-1702			  FAX:  (408) 428-8845

 
From hodgen@informatik.uni-koblenz.de  Ukn Jul  5 06:51:13 1993
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From: hodgen@informatik.uni-koblenz.de
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Subject: Re: General issues
To: riscy@pyramid.com
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 93 12:48:08 MET DST
In-Reply-To: <9307040424.AA17743@sword.eng.pyramid.com>; from "Neil Russell" at Jul 3, 93 9:24 pm
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> 	*  Peripheral controller
> 		Should we use the IDT 79R3730, or design our own?
> 		Should we use a IDT 79R3041 CPU as an I/O controller?

>From the discussion here the IDT 79R3730 seemed the best idea. But I'm not an
expert here so ...

> 	*  Should we have an ISA bus or a simpler bus?
> 		ISA is more practical, but a new simple 8-bit bus is
> 		cheaper and free of the ISA IBM-ness.

ISA, definately.

> 	*  Should we have SCSI?
> 		SCSI for this board will probably be much cheaper and
> 		probably faster than something like Adaptec.

Absolutely necessary.

> 	*  Should we have video?
> 		Video is looking to be the most expensive option on
> 		the whole board, but some say its essential.

Yes, this should be on board. It makes more sense and is easier later on. There
is then a video standard.

> 	*  Should we have ethernet?

Yes. I feel this should be the first to disappear if the design gets too
expensive but it should at least be there as sockets on the board.

I hope this helps. Perhaps we should take a proper vote on it.

-- 
Wayne Hodgen  | hodgen@infko.uni-koblenz.de | Opinions (c) Me 1991   | Intel SX
Uni Koblenz,  | (..!unido!infko!hodgen)     | Keeper of the Scrolls, |  Just
Rheinau 3-4,  | Voice: +49 261 9119-645     | Defender of the Net,   |   say
5400 Koblenz. | Fax:   +49 261 9119-499     | His name is "root".    |    NO!!!

 
From chrisa@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU  Ukn Jul  5 07:34:28 1993
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From: "C. G. Albone" <chrisa@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU>
Message-Id: <199307051131.AA19597@extra.ucc.su.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: General issues
To: riscy@pyramid.com
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 93 21:31:44 EST
In-Reply-To: <m0oCo5S-0001vLC@uniko.uni-koblenz.de>; from "hodgen@mailhost.uni-koblenz.de" at Jul 5, 93 12:48 pm
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hullo all..

	I am not sure how many of us lurkers are on the list, but I guess
even our opinions/wishes/etc may find a use to the implementers, after all,
we may well buy one of these boards.

	In terms of features, I guess the minimum list should be:
	A nice fast video implementation. I guess i am in no position
	to have an opinion as to how this should be implemented.

	ISA would seem to be very important too, even if we have only
	a partial implementation. I liked the idea that someone mentioned
	about being able to implement a faster bus & using wait states
	so that slower boards could cope with it. In any case, from the
	pro ISA faction, it seems that there should be between 2& 4 max. 
	slots. 3 seems a nice round number, leaving room for a ether card,
	perhaps a sound card & maybe extra serial/parallel or IDE interface
	cards. Those arguing for other sorts of bus implementations have to
	realise that not all of us can afford to give up whatever cards/drives
	/etc that we may already have.

	SCSI generally seems to be considered a necessity, and i have no
	quibbles about that.

	In terms of onboard ethernet, I am not so sure that it is so worthwhile.
	If there was no ISA bus, then perhaps there would be more reason to
	put it on the motherboard, but it seems that the cost of implementing
	it is the same as buying a card.. no net gain for many users i would
	guess.

	Basically I am indifferent on questions about the amount of memory
	that should be provided for on board, being one of those horribly
	poor student types that will never be able to afford to ever fill
	up all the banks in any case (unless it was with 256k simms that
	are like grains of sand here). 64M with 4M simms would seem to be
	enough (more than..) for any use that i would put the board to (heh,
	even if i were to use it as a multi-user system). Of course, others
	will have good cause for more ram.

	Re parallel ports, serial, sound, flashing lights etc. Two serial
	ports on board would seem to be the minimum & they needn't be
	especially fast if their main use is going to be looking after mice
	etc. I guess if you want speed, buy a card and put 16550's on it.
	Parallel would be best handled by something on an ISA card. Someone
	else mentioned that sound could be handled by a one bit speaker -
	i guess i agree.. nothing fancy, just enough to make a machine that
	can go 'ping' when we need it to. I guess if the Connection Machine
	has some flashing lights, i don't see why we shouldnt ;-)

	anyways enuff for now..

	chris.  

 
From andy@resi.waldorf-gmbh.de  Ukn Jul  5 08:13:56 1993
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From: Andreas Busse <andy@resi.waldorf-gmbh.de>
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 93 13:52:40 +0200
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To: riscy@pyramid.com
Subject: Re: General issues
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> > 	*  Should we have ethernet?
> 
> Yes. I feel this should be the first to disappear if the design gets too
> expensive but it should at least be there as sockets on the board.

No Ethernet on board at all wouldn't be a good solution, at least
for me. Having at least the sockets to plug the stuff in when needed
should be ok for most of us.

Andy

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