From rei2!tsprad@uunet.UU.NET  Ukn Jul  8 16:31:29 1993
Received: from gossip.pyramid.com by SunSITE.unc.edu (4.1/tas-gen/1-30-93)
	id AA14155; Thu, 8 Jul 93 16:31:26 EDT
Received: from sword.eng.pyramid.com 
	by gossip.pyramid.com (5.61/OSx5.1a Pyramid-Internet-Gateway)
	id AA13979; Thu, 8 Jul 93 13:26:44 -0700
Received: by sword.eng.pyramid.com (5.61/Pyramid_Internal_Configuration)
	id AA04959; Thu, 8 Jul 93 13:24:53 -0700
Received: from goss.pyramid.com
	by sword.eng.pyramid.com (5.61/Pyramid_Internal_Configuration)
	id AA04951; Thu, 8 Jul 93 13:24:51 -0700
Received: from relay2.UU.NET 
	by gossip.pyramid.com (5.61/OSx5.1a Pyramid-Internet-Gateway)
	id AA13743; Thu, 8 Jul 93 13:24:59 -0700
Received: from spool.uu.net (via LOCALHOST) by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP 
	(5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA28360; Thu, 8 Jul 93 16:23:23 -0400
Received: from rei2.UUCP by spool.uu.net with UUCP/RMAIL
	(queueing-rmail) id 162246.23461; Thu, 8 Jul 1993 16:22:46 EDT
Received: by rei.com (5.4/5.40/1.0)
	id AA18509; Thu, 8 Jul 1993 14:41:59 -0500
From: rei2!tsprad@uunet.UU.NET (6692)
Message-Id: <9307081941.AA18509@rei.com>
Subject: Re: IDE/UART
To: riscy@pyramid.com
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 14:41:58 -0500 (CDT)
In-Reply-To:     
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL13]
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 1681      
Sender: riscy-request@pyramid.com
Reply-To: riscy@pyramid.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

> > SMC FDC37C665
> > 
> > - 765 compatible FDC, able to r/w 2.88 MB floppys
> > - Two 16550 UARTS with 16byte send/rec. fifo
> > - bidirectional parallel port.
> > - IDE Interface
> > - comes in a 100pin QFP Package.
> > 
> > Price is around $23 in low quantities (1...10)
> > 
> I thought the idea was to use a ISA card for the FDC and parallel port.
> I'd like to see 16550s on the MB though.  If for anything developent
> reasons.  How much is a dual 16550 UART?  If the difference is small use
> the SMC FDC37C665. In any case, I'd like IDE available in some for so I
> can keep my HD. 
> 
If this 37C665 can provide for 2 serial ports w/FIFO's, plus
parallel port, plus floppy, plus IDE, and we also have SCSI and
Ethernet, then what else do you want?  Forget the expansion bus.

A big advantage is that the _minimum_ configuration is more
complete, so all software developed for the machine can assume all
this stuff is available.  This is the best argument for video on the
motherboard -- everybody has the same video hardware, so everybody
can use the same video software.  It would be even nicer to be
assured that everybody has the same SCSI adapter, the same Ethernet
adapter, the same IDE adapter, the same floppy adapter, the same
serial ports and parallel ports.

With surface mount, the only problem becomes fitting all the
connectors on one board. ;-)

-- 
Ted Spradley   Recognition International, Inc.  Opinions are mine, not theirs.
2701 E Grauwyler Rd. |Your productivity is not enhanced when you're staring
Irving TX 75061      |at that thing.  Your productivity is enhanced when
214-579-6692         |the computer is working and you're doing something else.

 
From calica@cae.wisc.edu  Ukn Jul  8 17:34:29 1993
Received: from gossip.pyramid.com by SunSITE.unc.edu (4.1/tas-gen/1-30-93)
	id AA18334; Thu, 8 Jul 93 17:34:23 EDT
Received: from sword.eng.pyramid.com 
	by gossip.pyramid.com (5.61/OSx5.1a Pyramid-Internet-Gateway)
	id AA24879; Thu, 8 Jul 93 14:32:22 -0700
Received: by sword.eng.pyramid.com (5.61/Pyramid_Internal_Configuration)
	id AA05103; Thu, 8 Jul 93 14:30:56 -0700
Received: from goss.pyramid.com
	by sword.eng.pyramid.com (5.61/Pyramid_Internal_Configuration)
	id AA05078; Thu, 8 Jul 93 14:30:54 -0700
Received: from serv0.cae.wisc.edu 
	by gossip.pyramid.com (5.61/OSx5.1a Pyramid-Internet-Gateway)
	id AA20085; Thu, 8 Jul 93 13:58:47 -0700
Received: from hprisc-25.cae.wisc.edu by serv0.cae.wisc.edu (4.1/25)
	id AA24540; Thu, 8 Jul 93 15:57:28 CDT
Received: by hprisc-25.cae.wisc.edu (16.8/client-1.3)
	id AA00730; Thu, 8 Jul 93 16:00:10 -0500
From: Carlo J. Calica <calica@cae.wisc.edu>
Message-Id: <9307082100.AA00730@hprisc-25.cae.wisc.edu>
Subject: Re: IDE/UART
To: riscy@pyramid.com
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 93 16:00:10 CDT
In-Reply-To: <9307081941.AA18509@rei.com>; from "6692" at Jul 8, 93 2:41 pm
Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.2]
Sender: riscy-request@pyramid.com
Reply-To: riscy@pyramid.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

> If this 37C665 can provide for 2 serial ports w/FIFO's, plus
> parallel port, plus floppy, plus IDE, and we also have SCSI and
> Ethernet, then what else do you want?  Forget the expansion bus.
> 
What if I want a sound card? Or a Data Aquistion(sp) card?  Then what
do I do?  We need a bus of some sort or the system is locked in without
expansion.  If that is the case count me out!

> A big advantage is that the _minimum_ configuration is more
> complete, so all software developed for the machine can assume all
> this stuff is available.  This is the best argument for video on the
> 
I completely agree.  Just don't kill any expansion possibilities.  It just
isn't worth it.  The complete min config is great from a driver point of
view but does tend to fix you on what you have now.  If the IBM PC didn't
have an expansion port we'd probably still have monochrome (not herc) or
CGA.

--
 /------------------------------+--------------------------------------\
| Carlo J. Calica               | Linux:  Choice of the GNU Generation  |
|     calica@cae.wisc.edu       | Dittos from the People's              | 
 \ University of Wisconsin      | Republic of Madison                  / 

 
From rei2!tsprad@uunet.UU.NET  Ukn Jul  8 21:26:31 1993
Received: from gossip.pyramid.com by SunSITE.unc.edu (4.1/tas-gen/1-30-93)
	id AA25685; Thu, 8 Jul 93 21:26:30 EDT
Received: from sword.eng.pyramid.com 
	by gossip.pyramid.com (5.61/OSx5.1a Pyramid-Internet-Gateway)
	id AA17043; Thu, 8 Jul 93 18:25:40 -0700
Received: by sword.eng.pyramid.com (5.61/Pyramid_Internal_Configuration)
	id AA09709; Thu, 8 Jul 93 18:25:14 -0700
Received: from goss.pyramid.com
	by sword.eng.pyramid.com (5.61/Pyramid_Internal_Configuration)
	id AA09702; Thu, 8 Jul 93 18:25:12 -0700
Received: from relay2.UU.NET 
	by gossip.pyramid.com (5.61/OSx5.1a Pyramid-Internet-Gateway)
	id AA17036; Thu, 8 Jul 93 18:25:26 -0700
Received: from spool.uu.net (via LOCALHOST) by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP 
	(5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA04324; Thu, 8 Jul 93 21:24:02 -0400
Received: from rei2.UUCP by spool.uu.net with UUCP/RMAIL
	(queueing-rmail) id 212240.5403; Thu, 8 Jul 1993 21:22:40 EDT
Received: by rei.com (5.4/5.40/1.0)
	id AA20573; Thu, 8 Jul 1993 20:04:16 -0500
From: rei2!tsprad@uunet.UU.NET (6692)
Message-Id: <9307090104.AA20573@rei.com>
Subject: Re: IDE/UART
To: riscy@pyramid.com
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 20:04:15 -0500 (CDT)
In-Reply-To: <9307082322.AA20395@rei.com> from "UUCP Login" at Jul 8, 93 06:22:31 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL13]
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 1681      
Sender: riscy-request@pyramid.com
Reply-To: riscy@pyramid.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

I said:
> 
> > If this 37C665 can provide for 2 serial ports w/FIFO's, plus
> > parallel port, plus floppy, plus IDE, and we also have SCSI and
> > Ethernet, then what else do you want?  Forget the expansion bus.
> > 
Carlo responded:

> What if I want a sound card? Or a Data Aquistion(sp) card?  Then what
> do I do?  We need a bus of some sort or the system is locked in without
> expansion.  If that is the case count me out!
> 
I'm not opposed to an ISA expansion bus.  Design is an art of
compromise and trade-offs.  If there is room on the board and in the
budget for an expansion bus, that's great.  But if most of the
_function_ of the expansion bus can be accomodated by this 100-pin
quad flat pack and a 22V10 and a bus buffer, then it's not
_such_a_disaster_ if there's not room for the expansion bus, or
perhaps only one expansion socket.

I'm trying to imagine who are the people who are going to use this
thing, and how are they going to use it.  My _guess_ is that the
people who want to do data acquisition will use a commercial PC, and
probably commercial software, for that.  On the other hand, various
sound cards or MIDI interfaces are probably something that would
interest the second wave of 'riscy owners' (the pioneers will be
pleased to get the thing to send and receive mail).

Let me know if I'm wrong.  I may be completely out of touch....

-- 
Ted Spradley   Recognition International, Inc.  Opinions are mine, not theirs.
2701 E Grauwyler Rd. |Your productivity is not enhanced when you're staring
Irving TX 75061      |at that thing.  Your productivity is enhanced when
214-579-6692         |the computer is working and you're doing something else.

 
From andy@piggy.waldorf-gmbh.de  Ukn Jul  9 01:13:20 1993
Received: from gossip.pyramid.com by SunSITE.unc.edu (4.1/tas-gen/1-30-93)
	id AA01839; Fri, 9 Jul 93 01:13:19 EDT
Received: from sword.eng.pyramid.com 
	by gossip.pyramid.com (5.61/OSx5.1a Pyramid-Internet-Gateway)
	id AA10784; Thu, 8 Jul 93 22:12:27 -0700
Received: by sword.eng.pyramid.com (5.61/Pyramid_Internal_Configuration)
	id AA00240; Thu, 8 Jul 93 22:11:57 -0700
Received: from goss.pyramid.com
	by sword.eng.pyramid.com (5.61/Pyramid_Internal_Configuration)
	id AA00224; Thu, 8 Jul 93 22:11:53 -0700
Received: from mail.Germany.EU.net 
	by gossip.pyramid.com (5.61/OSx5.1a Pyramid-Internet-Gateway)
	id AA10431; Thu, 8 Jul 93 22:12:04 -0700
Received: by mail.Germany.EU.net(EUnetD-2.3.0.e) via EUnet
	id fA24329; Fri, 9 Jul 1993 07:08:51 +0200
Received: from piggy.waldorf-gmbh.de 
	by wegy.waldorf-gmbh.de with UUCP (5.61/GEN-1.0.7)
	via EUnet for unido
	id AA19960; Fri, 9 Jul 93 06:49:15 +0200
From: Andreas Busse <andy@piggy.waldorf-gmbh.de>
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 93 07:36:15 GMT
Message-Id: <9307090736.AA10891@piggy.waldorf-gmbh.de>
Received: by piggy.waldorf-gmbh.de (5.65b/GEN-1.0.7)
	via EUnet for wegy
	id AA10891; Fri, 9 Jul 93 07:36:15 GMT
To: riscy@pyramid.com
Subject: Re: IDE/UART
Sender: riscy-request@pyramid.com
Reply-To: riscy@pyramid.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 


> [...]
> I'm not opposed to an ISA expansion bus.  Design is an art of
> compromise and trade-offs.  If there is room on the board and in the
> budget for an expansion bus, that's great.  But if most of the
> _function_ of the expansion bus can be accomodated by this 100-pin
> quad flat pack and a 22V10 and a bus buffer, then it's not
> _such_a_disaster_ if there's not room for the expansion bus, or
> perhaps only one expansion socket.

I did *not* made the suggestion to use that Super I/O thing because
I like to skip the ISA bus. I suggested it because we *definitly*
need UARTS, and we have some good reasons (floppy boot) to have a FDC
on board. Well, that chip has additional parallel and IDE interfaces.
That's nice. Nothing more.

> I'm trying to imagine who are the people who are going to use this
> thing, and how are they going to use it.  My _guess_ is that the
> people who want to do data acquisition will use a commercial PC, and
> probably commercial software, for that.  On the other hand, various
> sound cards or MIDI interfaces are probably something that would
> interest the second wave of 'riscy owners' (the pioneers will be
> pleased to get the thing to send and receive mail).

Yes, sending mail is even for me more important than MIDI, but,
you won't believe it, that thing has *free* programmable baud rates
from XX to 115k. Baudrate is set by a 16bit timer for each UART,
so even the MIDI baudrate shouldn't be a problem. You just have to
add the opto-isolators! 

Andy

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andreas Busse             | e-mail: andy@piggy.waldorf-gmbh.de (home)
Eislebenstrasse 5         |         andy@resi.waldorf-gmbh.de (office)
D-5300 Bonn 1             | Phone:  +49 (0)228-252687
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


 
