From andy@resi.waldorf-gmbh.de  Ukn Jul  9 07:49:26 1993
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From: Andreas Busse <andy@resi.waldorf-gmbh.de>
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 93 12:20:35 +0200
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To: riscy@pyramid.com
Subject: SIMMs
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Hello !

I tried to figure out prices for SIMM modules. I'm not
sure if it's the same in USA, but I doubt that it is
very different.

All our distributors told me: 
"Well, we can give you prices, but next week they aren't
valid anymore - buy now or forget the price".

All modules will become more expensive because the 
manufacturers are nearly sold out.
If it's different in USA, please let me know.

This should be a reason for us to use the good old
1Mx9 or 4Mx9 modules, because we probably have them
already in our old Intel box.

Andy


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D-5481 Waldorf
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From jcallen@Think.COM  Ukn Jul  9 15:50:04 1993
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From: Jerry Callen <jcallen@Think.COM>
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To: riscy@pyramid.com
In-Reply-To: Keith Rohrer's message of Fri, 9 Jul 1993 13:48:22 -0600 (CDT) <9307091848.AA10482@fncrdh.fnal.gov>
Subject: SIMMs
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   From: rohrer@fncrd8.fnal.gov (Keith Rohrer)
   Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 13:48:22 -0600 (CDT)

   >   - Will the 18 components in small surface mount packages use less
   >     real estate than 8 SIMM sockets?
   How can they?  You're talking about laying that number of SIMMS down flat on
   the motherboard, instead of mounting them nearly perpendicular...

ZIPs (which are thru-hole, not SMT) stand up vertically and are VERY dense.

   How do you replace a bad chip?  How do you even swap the chips around to try
   to see which ones are bad?  

You either use ZIP sockets or (my preference) you just solder the suckers
to the board like any other component and it either works or not. You're
buying tested parts; if you handle them properly, they should work. People
seem willing to trust that other components will work; why not DRAM?

I think the idea of having a base amount of memory and then SIMMs for
expansion is potentially very sound.

   >   - If one makes as few as 56 boards you break the 1000's in the DRAM count
   >     (which gets you to the first cost break).  But cost-wise how does this
   >     compare to SIMMs?
   Can we also get the SIMMs in huge quantities?

Undoubtedly, assuming we have the buyers.

-- Jerry Callen
   jcallen@world.std.com           (preferred)
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From jcallen@Think.COM  Ukn Jul  9 16:24:22 1993
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   From: Bill Broadley <broadley@neurocog.lrdc.pitt.edu>
   Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 16:12:00 -0500 (EDT)

   Why use 80ns instead of 70ns big price saving?

Actually, this is the sort of thing you won't know until the memory system
design is done. You may or may not need 70ns parts...

-- Jerry Callen
   jcallen@world.std.com           (preferred)
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From owner-riscy@pyramid.com  Thu Jul 15 16:48:07 1993
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In-Reply-To: Keith Rohrer's message of Thu, 15 Jul 1993 15:20:43 -0600 (CDT) <9307152020.AA23060@fncrdh.fnal.gov>
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   From: rohrer@fncrd8.fnal.gov (Keith Rohrer)
   Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1993 15:20:43 -0600 (CDT)

   > --- Andreas Busse wrote:
   > This is all more or less true. 3-chip x9 SIMMs have only few more chips than
   > x36 SIMMs. The discussion what SIMMs we should use had no technical reason,
   > just a practical. RAMs are going to be more expensive, so it would be
   > desirable for most of us to use the SIMMs we already *have*, and these are
   > 1Mx9 and 4Mx9 SIMMs, with a few exceptions.
   > --- end of quoted material ---
   > I think it makes the most sense to design for what we *will be* able to buy,
   > not what we have now.  Building a "junk box" computer may be fun, but is a

   You mean, buy the motherboard, let it sit in a closet until the following
   summer when I can afford the memory?  Depending on how layout goes, it might
   be good to have a daughtercard with (full-speed) simm sockets of x36 or x9,
   depending on the card or some of each.  If we have enough VLSI chips for
   the real work, board space may not be a problem, but beware also creeping
   featurism and overflowing the board with all the connectors for the things
   the wonder-chips will also do...

At some point this group is going to have to decide just what
price/feature/performance trade-offs it wants to make. Some people insist
that the board be able to have at least 64MB of memory. From a reliability
perspective, using x9 SIMMs to get there is wacky. It also eats more board
space for sockets and (probably) more drivers. The comment that 3 chip x9
SIMMs don't have more chips that x36 SIMMs doesn't wash; if you have OLD
SIMMs that you want to reuse, I'll bet they are NOT 3 chip SIMMs. Are they?

I have all sorts of stuff in my junkbox (AKA "my old system"). I don't want
to cripple any NEW system just to shave a few bucks off (which, because of
board space, etc, it might not do anyway).

   > SIMM "shape" is tending from the older x8 and x9 SIMMs to x32, x33, x36, and
   > x40 SIMMs.  Some of this is due to Wang Labs reaching out from the grave to
   > try to strangle other companies.  Some is due to benefits of the x32ish
   > shape.
   Hmmm...more expensive, and yet you need to replace it in larger hunks if/when
   it goes bad.  Sounds superior to me...  /*sarcasm off*/

See above. Fewer connections == more reliable.

Why is everyone so hung up on DRAM chip reliability anyway? I wonder how
many SIMM failures are bad chips vs. failed connections?

-- Jerry Callen
   jcallen@world.std.com           (preferred)
   jcallen@think.com               (OK, too)
   {uunet,harvard}!think!jcallen   (if you must)

 
